Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 03 Oct 2023 11:48

Big ticket weapons in mega IAF list of desi projects worth over Rs 3 lakh crore
https://www.firstpost.com/india/big-tic ... 95262.html
02 Oct 2023

This is massive news coming from the IAF Chief! If it materializes, he is committing Rs 3 Lakh Crores ($37 Billion+) on Atmanirbhar programs. If he signs of on the big ticket items on this list (Mk1a 97 additional order, 156 LCH), he will be remembered as the Chief who really made a quantum change towards the emergence of our MIC ecosystem. Its a welcome change from the MRFA-chanting person we first saw a year ago.

The key items in IAF's plans are:

1) Tejas Mk1a: 97 additional (1.2 Lakh Crores for the entire Mk1a fleet)
2) LCH Prachand: 156 (45K Crores)
3) Su-30-MKI deep upgrade including Uttam, Astra etc (60K Crores)
4) Project Kusha: our own S-400 class SAM system - first time being officially mentioned (sanctioned a cool 21K Crores

)
5) ISTAR aircraft
6) Pralay induction
7) HTT-40 induction (6K Crores)
8] IMRH
9) CIWS for airbases (7.5K Crores) (nice. Not much news about it till now. Some good money being sanctioned, for protection against CMs etc)
10) C-295 (22K Crores)
11) MRSAM (14.5K Crores)
12) LUH to replace Cheetah/Chetak

And these don't even mention follow-on orders for Netra on Embraer, Airbus-AWACS, indigenous drones etc

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Oct 2023 17:42

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑03 Oct 2023 11:48 This is massive news coming from the IAF Chief! If it materializes, he is committing Rs 3 Lakh Crores ($37 Billion+) on Atmanirbhar programs. If he signs of on the big ticket items on this list (Mk1a 97 additional order, 156 LCH), he will be remembered as the Chief who really made a quantum change towards the emergence of our MIC ecosystem. Its a welcome change from the MRFA-chanting person we first saw a year ago.

This is great news. Every item on that list brings a smile to my face!

This is his last Air Force Day as Air Chief, so he wants to go out with a bang. His tenure will end before 30 Sept 2024. He will do another press conference before his retirement, just to drive the point home.

mody · Post by **mody** » 03 Oct 2023 17:52

Rakesh wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 00:25 The Mk1A keeps getting more potent as time progresses. Apart from the obvious advantage to the IAF, this will greatly help in exports as well.

Just in the air-to-air domain alone, see the buffet of missiles the Tejas Mk1A can carry...

• Close Combat Missiles: R-73, ASRAAM and Python 5
• Beyond Visual Range Missiles: Astra Mk1, Astra Mk2, I-Derby ER and R-77

Small nitpick, the Tejas doesn't carry the R-77. For BVR it has the I-Derby, I-Derby-ER and Astra Mk1. The Astra MK2 will come in due course.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Oct 2023 03:42

bharathp wrote: ↑03 Oct 2023 07:34 might be an early signal of dwindling or no orders for mk2? perhaps mk2 will be TD for AMCA?

That will not happen, as confirmed by the Air Chief in his annual Air Force Day press conference...

Contract for 97 more Tejas fighter jets expected to be signed by year-end: IAF Chief Chaudhuri
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india ... ief-550042
03 Oct 2023

The IAF is going to procure 97 more Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mark-1A fighter jets. “We will sign with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). They may further allocate work to private sector,” the IAF Chief said. The number of 97 is not to reduce the existing projection of the Tejas Mark 2.

120 Tejas Mk2s (or 6 squadrons) are expected to be ordered in a first batch.

One to One replacement of the three Mirage 2000 and the three MiG-29UPG squadrons.

bala · Post by **bala** » 04 Oct 2023 09:19

Saars, did the IAF Chief Chaudhuri wake up on the wrong side of the bed. Just a year or two ago he was clamouring for videshi MRFA, ignored Tejas completely, mentioned AMCA. Now he is ordering 97 more. Something is wrong with this picture. What little birdie told him to go ATMA Nirbharta.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 04 Oct 2023 09:23

X-Post from the Rafale Thread ---> viewtopic.php?p=2603381#p2603381

==================================

97? 16 per squadron for six squadrons and one spare?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 04 Oct 2023 10:24

No the much maligned RNS who has been kadi nindaaed here by many is doing his job

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Oct 2023 10:32

suryag wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 10:24 No the much maligned RNS who has been kadi nindaaed here by many is doing his job

So true!!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Oct 2023 10:33

IAF to induct Astra missiles by end-2023
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 3.ece/amp/
02 Oct 2023

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Oct 2023 10:36

True. Looks like RNS gave a kadi-ninda to the IAF Chief and what we see are the results

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Oct 2023 10:45

ramana wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 10:33 IAF to induct Astra missiles by end-2023
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 3.ece/amp/
02 Oct 2023

Order placed for 248 missiles in May 2022. 1st batch by Dec 2023. Full delivery over 6 years by BDL.

Good to see progress on this front, though we wish the order size were larger or that a larger order will follow. As a point of comparison, Brahmos is made at the rate of 100 missiles/year. So, once production stabilizes, the manufacturing rate can dramatically go up. The only explanation for the tardy rate is the small batch size.

Ramana Ji: to your point about production stabilization, hopefully with this Dec 2023 batch, we will clear that milestone. CEMILAC has already cleared BDL for bulk-production of Astra-Mk1.

Besides the Meteor, there is no missile that equals even the Astra-Mk1 in our arsenal. I-Derby comes close. R-77 does not. So, no reason to wait for "Astra-MK2, which will become the mainstay". We don't want to go down the Tejas-Mk1, Mk1a followed by more Mk1a route here.

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 04 Oct 2023 10:53

ramana wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 10:33 IAF to induct Astra missiles by end-2023
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 3.ece/amp/
02 Oct 2023

Is Astra Mk 1 in operation ? SU 30MKI ? Tejas ?

What about IN MiG 29K ?

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 04 Oct 2023 10:54

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 10:45
ramana wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 10:33 IAF to induct Astra missiles by end-2023
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 3.ece/amp/
02 Oct 2023
Order placed for 248 missiles in May 2022. 1st batch by Dec 2023. Full delivery over 6 years by BDL.

Good to see progress on this front, though we wish the order size were larger or that a larger order will follow. As a point of comparison, Brahmos is made at the rate of 100 missiles/year. So, once production stabilizes, the manufacturing rate can dramatically go up. The only explanation for the tardy rate is the small batch size.

Ramana Ji: to your point about production stabilization, hopefully with this Dec 2023 batch, we will clear that milestone. CEMILAC has already cleared BDL for bulk-production of Astra-Mk1.

Besides the Meteor, there is no missile that equals even the Astra-Mk1 in our arsenal. I-Derby comes close. R-77 does not. So, no reason to wait for "Astra-MK2, which will become the mainstay". We don't want to go down the Tejas-Mk1, Mk1a followed by more Mk1a route here.

Wouldn't AMRAAM AIM120 D be in the same category ?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Oct 2023 11:00

Yes, but we dont operate AIM 120D. We were outranged by it during the Balakot conflict. Astra-Mk1 will match it and Mk2 will exceed it

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 04 Oct 2023 11:09

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 11:00 Yes, but we dont operate AIM 120D. We were outranged by it during the Balakot conflict. Astra-Mk1 will match it and Mk2 will exceed it

TVenky · Post by **TVenky** » 04 Oct 2023 12:23

Kersi wrote: ↑18 Sep 2023 11:09
drnayar wrote: ↑18 Sep 2023 02:30

OT but Interestingly similar case with Indian shipyards reaching "Chinese" speeds of build out times esp with modular ship building. If there is the will there is the way. The only bottle necks seem to be foreign sourced equipment !
The only bottle-neck is the intentions and will of MOD/IAF/powers-that-be

Absolutely.
I would also like to include our MICs start intending to justify their salaries by working sincerely, hard, smart, time consciously, quality consciously, and cost consciously.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 04 Oct 2023 13:19

Cybaru wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 09:23 X-Post from the Rafale Thread ---> viewtopic.php?p=2603381#p2603381

==================================

97? 16 per squadron for six squadrons and one spare?

83 + 97 = 180

SidSom · Post by **SidSom** » 04 Oct 2023 14:00

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 11:00 Yes, but we dont operate AIM 120D. We were outranged by it during the Balakot conflict. Astra-Mk1 will match it and Mk2 will exceed it

Nit pick.....

The PAF has AIM-120C-5 which outranged out R77s. I am not sure about this as all AIM 120 were fired at max range and non of them scored a hit. Whereas there is a possibility that SU 30s did not fire R77s as the probability of hit was low.

As per Wiki Chacha

In early 2006, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) ordered 500 AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM missiles as part of a $650 million F-16 ammunition deal

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Oct 2023 15:08

Sidsom:

1) Beggar Pakis ordered 500 AIM-120C's in 2006 itself
2) We had BVR edge over them in Kargil in 1999. They learnt that lesson and filled that gap. We were sleeping at the wheel
3) Our R-77 does not match AIM-120C performance
4) Our Sukhoi pilots employed better tactics, jammers etc to render the AIM-120 shots useless. And knew better than to waste R-77s
5) Paki pilots were morons to think they can score a hit at those ranges against highly skilled pilots flying 4+ gen aircraft
6) We realized we are falling behind and ordered Astra-Mk1 + some hush-hush ordering of R-27s etc
7) Still, the order size is far below where it needs to be (compared to 500 AIMs that Pakis ordered in 2006 itself). Hopefully follow-on orders for Mk1 will happen & it will not be capped at 248 (because Astra-Mk2 is coming)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Oct 2023 17:19

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 15:08
1) Beggar Pakis ordered 500 AIM-120C's in 2006 itself

They got it for free.

SidSom · Post by **SidSom** » 04 Oct 2023 17:34

Once we get Astra... The Europeans will "encourage" US to donate a few AIM 120 Ds to Pak so that we will go in for more Meteors. Do the J10s missiles outrange us now ?

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 04 Oct 2023 17:49

SidSom wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 17:34 Once we get Astra... The Europeans will "encourage" US to donate a few AIM 120 Ds to Pak so that we will go in for more Meteors. Do the J10s missiles outrange us now ?

they have a PL - something with 500 km + range. (they can bring down the ISS)

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Oct 2023 19:03

SidSom wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 17:34 Once we get Astra... The Europeans will "encourage" US to donate a few AIM 120 Ds to Pak so that we will go in for more Meteors.

We don't need the Europeans to do that, the Amreekis will do it themselves. Mark my words, win or lose the MRFA contest...the F-16 Block 70/72 (or perhaps even the F-21) will wear the colours of the Pakistan Air Force. You have to have regional parity after all, to prevent war

The more likely missile that the PAF will get their hands on is the AIM-120C7/C8 variant. The D variant is still reserved for only Anglophile nations.

Their older model F-16s (despite upgrades) are long in the tooth. They will have to swap them out and the PAF would definitely like to have diversity in their fleet ---> American (F-16) and Chinese (JF-17, J-10). From the American point of view, it makes perfect sense as well...as it keeps Pakistan still woven to the US for a key weapons platform. And to be used for future geopolitical arm twisting. Not that Pakistan would mind, they are used to it.

SidSom wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 17:34Do the J10s missiles outrange us now ?

The PAF got the PL-15E - along with the J-10CE - which has a maximum stated range of 145 km. However if you ask PAF Twitter fan boys, they will say that the PAF got the PL-15 which has a stated range of 300 km. Thus the Indian Air Force will lose onlee.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Oct 2023 19:05

bala wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 09:19 Saars, did the IAF Chief Chaudhuri wake up on the wrong side of the bed. Just a year or two ago he was clamouring for videshi MRFA, ignored Tejas completely, mentioned AMCA. Now he is ordering 97 more. Something is wrong with this picture. What little birdie told him to go ATMA Nirbharta.

Please read these two posts....

viewtopic.php?p=2603296#p2603296

viewtopic.php?p=2603314#p2603314

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Oct 2023 18:41

HVT Sir doing mic drops on Twitter

He is spot on!

https://x.com/SoumyaR57322232/status/17 ... 00099?s=20 ---> Enough of Tejas. It's time for MWF.

https://x.com/hvtiaf/status/1711182634318246276?s=20 ---> How many are enough? MWF is the younger kin. Stronger, faster, smarter. It's on the development path. But hinges on the success of Tejas. Many a miles to go before we say, enough Tejas already.

https://x.com/PrasadSatya10/status/1711 ... 06515?s=20 --->While add-on Mk1A order will help, it's Mk2 that will be the IDDM challenger for a foreign MRFA platform. Question: Is Mk2 on track?

https://x.com/hvtiaf/status/1711267954522997056?s=20 ---> In which way is Mk-1A not a challenger to any fourth generation aircraft? I am not waiting for Mk2 to start feeling confident. Mk1A is today. Today, we have all the answers.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Oct 2023 18:47

https://x.com/_devildog_rv_/status/1711 ... 37125?s=20 ---> Oh look at that. LCA Tejas Mk1A (testbed) equipped with Elta EL/M-8222(WB?) Self Protection Jammer. Photo by Amit Das (@thecameraguyamit/Instagram).

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Oct 2023 02:20

suryag wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 10:24 No the much maligned RNS who has been kadi nindaaed here by many is doing his job

I think we should do a kadi ninda of the folks who did kadi ninda of Hon. Raksha Mantriji.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Oct 2023 15:23

Let the orders be placed first and then start dancing. Took years for the first Mk1A orders to be placed. As things stand, a reality check. IAF is at a historic low, numbers wise and has even fallen behind technologically versus the PLAAF beyond a token 36 Rafales. The Su-30 upg deal which is the biggest need of the hour hasnt been signed yet either. Nor have mass MRSAM inductions begun. MOF needs to coordinate with MOD and get orders placed. Mere speeches have long had their day. We are running out of time and while we always seem to fund politically important programs, defence gets the short thrift. Truly ironic because even a few setbacks can put paid to BJPs rule at the center and give the opposition all sorts of ammunition to exploit.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Oct 2023 15:28

SidSom wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 17:34 Once we get Astra... The Europeans will "encourage" US to donate a few AIM 120 Ds to Pak so that we will go in for more Meteors. Do the J10s missiles outrange us now ?

The AMRAAM future variants are unlikely to enter Pak service. Instead theyll likely upgrade their Vipers with Turkish AAMs and radars, while we sit and twiddle our thumbs. Its baffling how cavalier we are with our defence while countries a fraction of our size and economic heft are willing to invest more. Apart from the Turkish AAM threat,we will face a PAF JF-17 and J-10 fleet with the PL-15. All with AESA radars. And the GOI hasnt even funded a Su-30 upgrade yet.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 13 Oct 2023 08:43

Two mega proposals for aircraft carrier, LCA-MK1A jets lined up for DAC approval

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 3.ece/amp/

Additional jets
Last week, IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Vivek Ram Chaudhari announced that they have moved a case for 97 additional LCA-MK1A jets in addition to the 83 jets on order with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), which would cumulatively cost around ₹1.15 lakh crore. This would eventually make 180 LCA-MK1A jets and 220 jets of the MK1 variant.

In 2021, the Defence Ministry had signed a ₹48,000-crore deal with the HAL to supply 83 LCA-Mk1A, a more capable fighter than the current LCA-MK1 in service. As per the contract, three LCA-MK1A are scheduled to be delivered to the IAF in February 2024 and 16 aircraft per year for subsequent five years. Officials said the deliveries of the larger LCA-MK2 jets were expected to commence from 2032 by which time the deliveries of all LCA-MK1A were expected to be completed with the HAL eventually ramping up production to 24 aircraft per year.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 13 Oct 2023 11:55

Oye HAL jaldi sey achche quote jaldi dedo bhai faaltoo ka sandbagging math karna and prolong discussions

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 13 Oct 2023 14:42

Wish they had a contractual stipulation (when Mk1a was ordered) that locked in the price for follow-on orders, adjusting for inflation for X number of years. We could be shaving off a year of babugiri

But then, who am I kidding .......

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Oct 2023 20:26

The legendary Kuntal Biswas strikes again!

https://x.com/Kuntal__biswas/status/171 ... 83765?s=20 ---> Look first, lock first, shoot first and the farthest - all homegrown capabilities.

https://x.com/hvtiaf/status/1712834495488180247?s=20 ---> This is better than #TejasTrailer @KanganaTeam
^^^ Even HVT Sir commented

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 14 Oct 2023 01:08

Was wondering what will be the break-up of the 97 Mk1A order between single seater and twin seaters... The number looked odd...
Also, saw the posts in Mk1 thread where some of them guessed that additional trainers will be ordered along with 97 Mk1A jets...
-
After thinking a bit, what I assume is that the number 97 includes both single seater and twin seaters... There won't be additional trainers ordered...
I guess the break up will be---> 89 + 8

Because Current Tejas Mk1A order is 73+10.
Once we combine both numbers, it will be 162 + 18.
That will give 9 squadrons of Mk1A with 18 single seater + 2 Twin seaters per squadron...

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 15 Oct 2023 19:43

'Angad', 'Uttam' to replace imported systems in indigenous LCA fighter jets

https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 015182148/

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 15 Oct 2023 21:12

SidSom wrote: ↑04 Oct 2023 17:34 Once we get Astra... The Europeans will "encourage" US to donate a few AIM 120 Ds to Pak so that we will go in for more Meteors. Do the J10s missiles outrange us now ?

Forget Europeans or US
Some of Indians too will start singing great stories of Meteor or even AIM 120D and try and find faults with Astra

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Oct 2023 05:06

India’s DRDO develops Angad Self-Protection Jammer for LCA Mk1A
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/10/indi ... -lca-mk1a/
16 October 2023

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 17 Oct 2023 08:18

Known for wine, Nashik is the next aircraft manufacturing hub as HAL spreads wings
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 4-amp.html
By Rahul Singh, Bengaluru

HAL is preparing to activate new production lines for LCA Mk-1A and HTT-40 planes.

The new plant for the Mk-1As will enable HAL to advance the deliveries of the 83 such fighters ordered by IAF for ₹48,000 crore in February 2021 by at least a year, HAL chief CB Ananthakrishnan said in an interview. His comments came days after IAF chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari announced plans to order 97 more LCA Mk-1As at an estimated cost of ₹67,000 crore.

The first Mk-1A will be delivered to IAF in February 2024, and the last of the 83 jets by 2028 (instead of 2029, the contracted delivery schedule), Ananthakrishnan said.

The new Mk-1A production line is being set up fast to begin deliveries from Nashik.

“We have already started installing the jigs, fixtures and other equipment. We expect the first assembly to happen in December 2024. Our target is to deliver three aircraft from Nashik in 2024-25 and eight every year thereafter,” Ananthakrishnan said.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Oct 2023 20:56

ashishvikas wrote: ↑17 Oct 2023 08:18 Known for wine, Nashik is the next aircraft manufacturing hub as HAL spreads wings[/b]
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 4-amp.html
By Rahul Singh, Bengaluru

Image of the above article...

https://x.com/rahulsinghx/status/171410 ... 33092?s=20 --->

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 24 Oct 2023 10:40

Ramping up capacity, prepared to execute big orders: HAL chief
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 82823.html
24 Oct 2023, By Rahul Singh

HAL has ramped up LCA Mk-1A production capacity to 24 aircraft per year. Is there more scope to scale up?

Our current goal is to deliver 24 aircraft from the Bengaluru and Nashik facilities from 2025-26. Once we have reached that goal, we can ramp up production to 30 aircraft per annum. It is possible if we can streamline the supply chain. But first we have to prove we can deliver 24 as there’s a general sense that HAL is not capable of producing aircraft in big numbers. I don’t want to get into that debate. More numbers are achievable as we know what our capacities and capabilities are. We are focussed on making more numbers available to our customers as soon as possible.

How is the first LCA Mk-1A shaping up?

As far as the first aircraft goes, the certification process of the new systems is underway by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification. Most of this has been done, and only three or four more systems need to be certified. It should happen in the next two to three months. On the production side, we started work on the aircraft last year and it is now in an advanced stage. It should get into equipping soon. Once all the systems are certified, we will do the ground runs and test flying. The first Mk-1A will be delivered to IAF in February 2024, and the last of the 83 jets by 2027-28 – a year ahead of the contracted delivery schedule.