Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 09 Oct 2023 23:33

Head’s must roll for such incompetence later
But need of the hour secure fence take care of injured
Need to get public behind the government
Palestinian slaughter will lead to Arab backlash but they need to be prepared for it

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 09 Oct 2023 23:43

@ImtiazMadmood
https://twitter.com/ImtiazMadmood/statu ... 2204847575
"We are working with the Egyptian govt. to accept all the displaced Palestinians from Gaza and build a city for them in Sinai. We will fund that city together with the UAE.
We are in talks with Israel to turn the evacuated Gaza into an International sports, music, and entertainment city. Gulf countries will invest in that project.
Let's make peace, not war."
~ Saudi PM Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud

" Here is some chump change for you guys to start over. And we'll fund projects in your lands. But no , none of you dirty scum are going to set foot in our lands"

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 09 Oct 2023 23:45

Yensoy Ji,
My view exactly.

Which brings us to the initial question of how did all this escape Israeli intelligence for so long?

One video from a girl who escaped from the rave party slaughter was saying she herself was in military and manned these borders for 2 years. All that time they monitored these areas with all kinds of uber elint 24*7, even birds or lizards could trip them off and for every case there was a thorough investigation. So how did they let border fences cut, walls bulldozed, hundreds to infiltrate with no resistance until they got 10s of kms inside and killed wantonly in full daylight for hours.

Actually that's something that struck me as well as soon as I saw the news coming in. Who in their right mind starts such a brazen attack at 6:30 AM? Why didn't they start few hours earlier under the cover of darkness? Secondly how did they get so far inside with hardly any challenge? Very very odd.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 09 Oct 2023 23:47

I get a feeling that Bidenwa and maybe Deep State have given a go ahead for complete cleanup of Gaza

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 09 Oct 2023 23:49

Egypt says it's staying out of current Israel-Hamas conflict.

Is there any danger Egyptian govt of Al-Sisi could be destabilized from this? (ie. could Israel defeating Gaza lead to greater danger of losing Egypt?)

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 09 Oct 2023 23:51

Cyranoji
Are you suggesting some double or triple mole inside IDF deliberately let attacks happen so that they can flatten Gaza??

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 09 Oct 2023 23:52

Until recently everyone was saying Biden's out to get BN when his justice reforms were a mess. Now they are best pals?

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 09 Oct 2023 23:52

Jeremy Corbyn risks fresh fury by suggesting Israel 'occupation' is the root cause of Hamas atrocities - as left-wing activists project Palestine flag on building during Labour conference

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rence.html

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 09 Oct 2023 23:54

If I was saying that, I'd have written it.

Are you insinuating that I'm insinuating?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 09 Oct 2023 23:56

Cyrano wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 23:45 Yensoy Ji,
My view exactly.

Which brings us to the initial question of how did all this escape Israeli intelligence for so long?

One video from a girl who escaped from the rave party slaughter was saying she herself was in military and manned these borders for 2 years. All that time they monitored these areas with all kinds of uber elint 24*7, even birds or lizards could trip them off and for every case there was a thorough investigation. So how did they let border fences cut, walls bulldozed, hundreds to infiltrate with no resistance until they got 10s of kms inside and killed wantonly in full daylight for hours.

Actually that's something that struck me as well as soon as I saw the news coming in. Who in their right mind starts such a brazen attack at 6:30 AM? Why didn't they start few hours earlier under the cover of darkness? Secondly how did they get so far inside with hardly any challenge? Very very odd.

Well Hamas arent fools. They experiment, iterate , improve. They know where leaks are coming from and plug holes. As for Ammo, it is a steady plod over several years to stockpile - it is their primary job if they want to justify their existence. It does seem like a very neatly kept programme where disparate elements were kept independent with well defined plans for them until the last minutes where a set of parallel events revealed the overall approach by Hamas leadership. Must admit that they did a neat job.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 10 Oct 2023 00:08

May be, but if we're saying this then professionals know this as well, actually we'd expect they know better right?

26/11 comes to mind inevitably

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Oct 2023 00:25

Neela wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 23:43
@ImtiazMadmood
https://twitter.com/ImtiazMadmood/statu ... 2204847575
"We are working with the Egyptian govt. to accept all the displaced Palestinians from Gaza and build a city for them in Sinai. We will fund that city together with the UAE.
We are in talks with Israel to turn the evacuated Gaza into an International sports, music, and entertainment city. Gulf countries will invest in that project.
Let's make peace, not war."
~ Saudi PM Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud

" Here is some chump change for you guys to start over. And we'll fund projects in your lands. But no , none of you dirty scum are going to set foot in our lands"

As a FYI, Islam does not allow Muslims to "reverse migrate" (which is what SA accepting Muslim refugees would be). Muslims migrate, per Islam, to spread Islam - there is NO OTHER reason. Not for better economics, better political situations, or whatever. After all, there is no better life than Islam. Janat is FAR better than Heaven/Swarg.

___________________________

On the trade corridor via SA/UAE, guys, these two nations are hungry to get away from an oil economy. There is no other nation that wants this corridor to succeed. The alternatives are via Iran, Iraq, etc - all of them are unstable.

BTW, each nation will pay for the "corridor" in their own nation.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 10 Oct 2023 00:33

Our former finance minister graduated from this place. Hope admission standards were better back then.

31 Harvard student groups hold Israel 'entirely responsible' for Hamas attack

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 10 Oct 2023 00:34

Didnt see all the past msgs... but I did speak to a few ex-IDF folks and heard some news and sharing bits of the info.

Well executed plan. Looks like training has been ongoing for years and Hamas also had a mock up of Israel village and trained taking over village and also shot videos. Looks like Israel has seen it but were quietly confident that Hamas wasn't interested in attacking given background / general feeling in last 2-3 years. Gaza's were given work permits to work in Israel, money coming in etc. Good Reuters link on this. Perhaps shared earlier, dont know
Choose an excellent moment with the Jewish Sabbath and around 1000 infiltrations across air / navy and land. Navy was finished, I hear. Air / land successful.
Rave party was first to be attacked. I reckon they anticipated IDF to respond. No response.
Excellent way to jam comms and take out Gaza HQ. Absolute loss there and shocking that it was so loosely defended. IDF also was lean because of holiday and force posture shifted to move more forces to W Bank due to friction there.
Civilians routed and they also have an eq of our border civilian SHG. Lightly armed - these folks have engaged and massive rout of the civilian armed group.
Israel police has engaged as first level of defence in IDF absence - routed.
Many senior level officers reported to be kidnapped. IMHO, there are toast and on their way to Iran to sing. Nimrod per this source is a big deal and knows ongoing ops and the division uses spl weapons, spl SF etc. He can sing well too. Everyone sings. IMHO, avenging Qassem Suleimani and also the death of the n-scientist (these were my words to him).
SF's routed - lots of them. Teams have been routed.
Bibi is perhaps toast. Too much has happened and once this rally around flag happens, anger will turn towards folks and there were will folks who will fall.
This is 1973 redux per a lot of them as this is a total intel failure - sigint, humint, elint - something / everything should have been flashing red and nothing has. And Israel prides itself in all matters security and also in eavesdropping into comms of these groups. This is a massive loss. Will rankle.
kids and women have been tgted. Source says some videos were unwatchable.
Shin Bet / Shabak takes most of the blame as its their domain.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 10 Oct 2023 00:48

Bibi's and others' only chance of some redemption is to raze Gaza and clean up WB. But even that won't be enough and they'll go beyond borders. Bibi already said maps will be redrawn or stlt.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 10 Oct 2023 00:52

Gaza probably yes but WB unlikely unless there’s any attack initiated from that side
Lebanon side highly unlikely

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 10 Oct 2023 00:52

sanman wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 23:52 Jeremy Corbyn risks fresh fury by suggesting Israel 'occupation' is the root cause of Hamas atrocities - as left-wing activists project Palestine flag on building during Labour conference

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rence.html

look at that..its polarizing opinion in every country !! ..the woke Islamists everywhere rising up

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 10 Oct 2023 00:55

vera_k wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 00:33 Our former finance minister graduated from this place. Hope admission standards were better back then.

31 Harvard student groups hold Israel 'entirely responsible' for Hamas attack

right..look at the names of those..Pakistani and Muslim predominated ones

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 10 Oct 2023 00:56

Razing Gaza is feasible and might happen... but to control it needs boots on the ground... and it's not an easy decision. Plus the fact isnt lost on ppl. 1000's will be lost in the battle. But fight they will.

IMHO, the Hamas want the IDF to come to Gaza to have an urban war / hand to hand combat and with all the tunnels and the maze. And we know that in urban warfare, the defenders have an edge. Will lead to more losses. So, this period will be brutal.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 10 Oct 2023 00:57

BiBi is toast regardless how much the ME map charges but the great worry is who’s going to come next
The others are ready to sacrifice country and people for so called peace

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 10 Oct 2023 00:57

Neela wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 23:56
Cyrano wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 23:45 Yensoy Ji,
My view exactly.

Which brings us to the initial question of how did all this escape Israeli intelligence for so long?

One video from a girl who escaped from the rave party slaughter was saying she herself was in military and manned these borders for 2 years. All that time they monitored these areas with all kinds of uber elint 24*7, even birds or lizards could trip them off and for every case there was a thorough investigation. So how did they let border fences cut, walls bulldozed, hundreds to infiltrate with no resistance until they got 10s of kms inside and killed wantonly in full daylight for hours.

Actually that's something that struck me as well as soon as I saw the news coming in. Who in their right mind starts such a brazen attack at 6:30 AM? Why didn't they start few hours earlier under the cover of darkness? Secondly how did they get so far inside with hardly any challenge? Very very odd.
Well Hamas arent fools. They experiment, iterate , improve. They know where leaks are coming from and plug holes. As for Ammo, it is a steady plod over several years to stockpile - it is their primary job if they want to justify their existence. It does seem like a very neatly kept programme where disparate elements were kept independent with well defined plans for them until the last minutes where a set of parallel events revealed the overall approach by Hamas leadership. Must admit that they did a neat job.

I will say again that there is involvement of some elements from inside Israel.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 10 Oct 2023 01:00

vijaykarthik wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 00:56 Razing Gaza is feasible and might happen... but to control it needs boots on the ground... and it's not an easy decision. Plus the fact isnt lost on ppl. 1000's will be lost in the battle. But fight they will.

IMHO, the Hamas want the IDF to come to Gaza to have an urban war / hand to hand combat and with all the tunnels and the maze. And we know that in urban warfare, the defenders have an edge. Will lead to more losses. So, this period will be brutal.

boots on the ground.. they would bulldoze and find and destroy every tunnel in [ some tunnels extend all the way to egypt!!] .. the inhabitants would have to be send to some other country.. maybe Qatar ? [sic]

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Oct 2023 01:13

Fast and furious.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Oct 2023 01:19

The hamas action was simply brilliant. No question. It showed up the paper

. Israel and more worryingly the US.

This is even more cataclysmic than 9/11.

Hamas is not interested in public relations or public sympathy. The appalling violence and to videograph it and release it for world public consumption. Those Jews were butchered in all but the halal ritual. The objective is to make a statement. This is coming your way.

I try to look at the nuance of issues, the apartheid like communities, the permits, the blockades, the calibrated shortages of medical facilities.

But there is no nuance here. Those Israelis who were abducted are bound for hell. Women and children terrorised and put on YouTube. And what is it that we will never see that is released by hamas? This is like a communal halal sacrifice that will be seen as a model for Muslims.
The Israelis will raze Gaza and I’m not sure whether to take out my placard.

SivaR · Post by **SivaR** » 10 Oct 2023 01:24

There's always double/triple crossing of intelligence between them.In the age of information overload it's really tough to take decisions.If time permits watch the serial "Tehran" in Apple TV to understand how they work.

bala · Post by **bala** » 10 Oct 2023 01:24

The secret agenda behind Hamas attack on Israel - Ankit Shah on Jaipur Dialogues shows some predictions he made and includes the Israel-Gaza war. Take it for whatever it is worth..

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 10 Oct 2023 01:26

sanjaykumar wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 01:19 The hamas action was simply brilliant. No question. It showed up the paper . Israel and more worryingly the US.

How does Israel become a "paper tiger" just because some Islamic Yahoos sneak in early morning and butcher some civilians?

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 10 Oct 2023 01:28

Recommended watch

how governments and shady businesses are intertwined and can instigate wars

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Oct 2023 01:34

It is the perception of paper tiger that matters. It is the one up man ship in blood that, as a perceptive Canadian woman said, is the culture.

It is as distressing for Israel as was Mumbai 2008 for India. Fewer than 200 killed in Bombay but the statement was made and India humiliated.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Oct 2023 01:37

The Lord has descended on earth

Egypt's President Warns Against 'Vicious Cycle' of Violence

Violence.

Vicious cycle.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 10 Oct 2023 01:41

vijaykarthik wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 00:34 Didnt see all the past msgs... but I did speak to a few ex-IDF folks and heard some news and sharing bits of the info.

Well executed plan. Looks like training has been ongoing for years and Hamas also had a mock up of Israel village and trained taking over village and also shot videos. Looks like Israel has seen it but were quietly confident that Hamas wasn't interested in attacking given background / general feeling in last 2-3 years. Gaza's were given work permits to work in Israel, money coming in etc. Good Reuters link on this. Perhaps shared earlier, dont know
Choose an excellent moment with the Jewish Sabbath and around 1000 infiltrations across air / navy and land. Navy was finished, I hear. Air / land successful.
Rave party was first to be attacked. I reckon they anticipated IDF to respond. No response.
Excellent way to jam comms and take out Gaza HQ. Absolute loss there and shocking that it was so loosely defended. IDF also was lean because of holiday and force posture shifted to move more forces to W Bank due to friction there.
Civilians routed and they also have an eq of our border civilian SHG. Lightly armed - these folks have engaged and massive rout of the civilian armed group.
Israel police has engaged as first level of defence in IDF absence - routed.
Many senior level officers reported to be kidnapped. IMHO, there are toast and on their way to Iran to sing. Nimrod per this source is a big deal and knows ongoing ops and the division uses spl weapons, spl SF etc. He can sing well too. Everyone sings. IMHO, avenging Qassem Suleimani and also the death of the n-scientist (these were my words to him).
SF's routed - lots of them. Teams have been routed.
Bibi is perhaps toast. Too much has happened and once this rally around flag happens, anger will turn towards folks and there were will folks who will fall.
This is 1973 redux per a lot of them as this is a total intel failure - sigint, humint, elint - something / everything should have been flashing red and nothing has. And Israel prides itself in all matters security and also in eavesdropping into comms of these groups. This is a massive loss. Will rankle.
kids and women have been tgted. Source says some videos were unwatchable.
Shin Bet / Shabak takes most of the blame as its their domain.

IDF also needs to ask serious questions of it self. you cannot have a Major Base overrun like this. There was another air base close by and they had to move F 16s by truck. I think the world has been lulled into a false sense of security and maybe costs are being cut when it comes to Military. I worry abt our own Agniveer scheme

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 10 Oct 2023 01:41

There are less and less govts and political parties in the world which can ignore/whitewash/support such barbarity in your face. I think Hamas's biggest miscalculation was that one.

Before it's was just a toothless UN and bit of a risk NATO may sanction.

Now there is i2u2, BRICS, SCO, G20, quad, GS etc and Hamas cannot get LL types of support, overt or covert , mainly because the common thread between all these multilateral fora is India which does not condone terrorism.

So Hamas, like pakis can go in guns blazing but cannot be sure when to stop and why.

The loner they stay warring, the lesser chance of capitalising from the initial surprise. What next ? Out of syllabus in madrassas.

Increasingly narrow options to get hoors or become choors. Perhaps they are beyond caring for either.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 10 Oct 2023 01:49

sanjaykumar wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 01:19 The hamas action was simply brilliant. No question. It showed up the paper . Israel and more worryingly the US.

This is even more cataclysmic than 9/11.

Israel is not a paper tiger but this is a massive failure. Much more than a slap on the face of Mossad/shin bet etc. but Israel will rise again. They will need to clean house and learn from this.

Those videos are tough to watch but folks have see it to realize the Monster we are dealing with. Imagine what we went thru in Medival times. Apologists are already white washing this barbarity . Dhruv Rathee has an aak thoo video which I will not link

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Oct 2023 01:49

Intro for US services into this conflict.

Americans may be among the dead and those taken hostage in Israel-Hamas war, Blinken says

bala · Post by **bala** » 10 Oct 2023 02:03

In Secret agenda behind Hamas attack on Israel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5mi6iuZvUY posted a few posts above), Ankit Shah claims there is a dedollarization going, i.e. retraction of dollars circulating outside US. When this happens there is a simultaneous arms sales by US MIC. The hot spots in the world are created specifically to target two goals a) dedollarization b) de-radicalization. Ankit believes that Iran will be at the receiving end. Iran initially praised Hamas and Hamas claimed that Iran helped it. But now Iran is distancing itself from Hamas. Everyone in the region are apprehensive of Iran going nuclear. Once Iran is tackled by US/Israel then Iran may turn Christian with the evangelists descending quickly. POK is the next area to watch out for according to Ankit. This is quite fascinating. He also highlights the Deep State behind all of this.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 10 Oct 2023 02:28

Okay, this is fake news but it does make me wonder whether the fellow is reconsidering his words:

https://twitter.com/the_fauxy/status/17 ... 0958901559

Likewise, I wonder whether the many ardent Soros followers in Israel are reconsidering right now?

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 10 Oct 2023 02:29

NRao wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 01:49 Intro for US services into this conflict.

Americans may be among the dead and those taken hostage in Israel-Hamas war, Blinken says

Nah, US has sent carrier there just to warn off Iran/Hezbollah from entering into the conflict. They likely won't do much beyond token pinprick attacks to keep northern Israeli forces on their toes.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 10 Oct 2023 02:30

NRao wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 01:49 Intro for US services into this conflict.
Americans may be among the dead and those taken hostage in Israel-Hamas war, Blinken says

I think a lot of Israelis are dual citizens of another western nation, so you will hear a lot about Americans, Germans, Brits, Canadians etc being killed or kidnapped.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Oct 2023 03:31

I am not going to deal with who is responsible and why we have been caught by surprise. This is not the time and place. We will be united against our enemies. The state of Israel is at war. The war will not be short and it will not be easy.

--Yair Lapid

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 10 Oct 2023 03:55

These Palestinians are isolated. No Islamic country has overtly come to their aid. They are all keeping quiet.

Long term I think IMEC will be a success. Instead of INSTC we can have another route to central asia and Russia via Kashmir.

This Shia regime in Iran has maybe 1-2 decades at the most. We can have a better relationship with them through Sindh and Balochistan.