Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

[SSridhar]

Excellent step by Mudi when he has been awarded highest honour by Palestine, not easy.

There is a subtle, even open, difference.

The PA (Palestinian Authority) rules West Bank and Mahmoud Abbas of PA gave that award. Hamas is in Gaza.

The PA and Hamas don't see eye-to-eye and Egypt & KSA have tried several times to settle the difference but without any success.

In July, Egypt hosted Abbas & Haniyeh but as usual it failed. But, Haniyeh made a startling statement that the IDF didn't pay attention to.

He said that the window of opportunity against Israel was approaching as Israel was having internal dissensions and was weak therefore politically. “We are facing an exceptional stage in the course of the conflict, which requires us to think collectively and take exceptional decisions on how to confront [Israel’s] policies and rein in these extremists”, Haniyeh said.
Clear message there. {Much more prescient than what XJP talks of 'developments unseen in a century' etc.}

[drnayar]

hindsight is always right but for sure Israel has some soul searching to do !!

[SSridhar]

hindsight is always right but for sure Israel has some soul searching to do !!

That statement from Haniyeh is as good as Khalid Kidwai of Pakistan's SPD drawing the nuclear redlines. Has to be taken seriously. When we have an implacable enemy, we have to err on the positive side.

This Hamas attack will result in some changes in the Indian security architecture also.

[drnayar]

Big Breaking: UAE comes in support of Israel and condemns the attacks by Terrorist Group Hamas.

With this, UAE becomes the first Islamic Country to come in support of Israel.

[Kati]

Just gathered some info from the media of our eastern neighbor. Not sure how credible this is.
1. Hamas had support from within Israel which explains why Hamas had a spectacular shock and awe.
2. Hamas has established contacts within IDF for quite sone time. Apparently there is some disaffection within IDF ranks.
(One may recall that due to BN's efforts to restructure the judiciary a large number of IDF reservists protested and staged demonstrations openly against the govt.)
3. Drug problem is very serious within lower level IDF ranks. This is what Hamas exploited to gain inside info in exchange for drugs.
4. A few months ago local media in Israel reported that 100,000 rounds of IDF standard rifle were stolen from an army base. Later, police investigation revised the number to 150,000.

[Cyrano]

Excellent step by Mudi when he has been awarded highest honour by Palestine, not easy.

Modi doesn't really care for the awards he receives very respectfully. Only those giving do.

[Aditya_V]

Sorry but that is Kind of Propaganda blaming the victim, a.k.a intelligence failure only, it tries to absolve Hamas. It is Horse manure.

It is like a rapist saying, she took drugs so she deserved it.

[Lisa]

The response cannot be limited to Gaza. The heads of the Hydra overseas need to be decapitated. This action needs to move beyond that to kill those who stable the Hydra, eg lets say a defence minister who works in the stable. Only fear and publicised misery can bring about Détente. Screw public opinion.

[drnayar]

Just gathered some info from the media of our eastern neighbor. Not sure how credible this is.
1. Hamas had support from within Israel which explains why Hamas had a spectacular shock and awe.
2. Hamas has established contacts within IDF for quite sone time. Apparently there is some disaffection within IDF ranks.
(One may recall that due to BN's efforts to restructure the judiciary a large number of IDF reservists protested and staged demonstrations openly against the govt.)
3. Drug problem is very serious within lower level IDF ranks. This is what Hamas exploited to gain inside info in exchange for drugs.
4. A few months ago local media in Israel reported that 100,000 rounds of IDF standard rifle were stolen from an army base. Later, police investigation revised the number to 150,000.

i have been saying that from the first page .. it is for sure..as incredible as it is

Also why this is a huge lesson for India.. should and must be a wakeup call

[Neela]

Wait. Stop. No calls of cessation of hostilities, no "humanitarian" messages. No calls for peace.
What gives?

who would call for peace after a terrorist attack ?!!

Again, why didnt PM ask for peace? Whereas he asked for cessation of hostilities in Ukraine.
Pretty clear what India's response will be if we are facing a similar situation.

[Lisa]

Just gathered some info from the media of our eastern neighbor. Not sure how credible this is.
1. Hamas had support from within Israel which explains why Hamas had a spectacular shock and awe.
2. Hamas has established contacts within IDF for quite sone time. Apparently there is some disaffection within IDF ranks.
(One may recall that due to BN's efforts to restructure the judiciary a large number of IDF reservists protested and staged demonstrations openly against the govt.)
3. Drug problem is very serious within lower level IDF ranks. This is what Hamas exploited to gain inside info in exchange for drugs.
4. A few months ago local media in Israel reported that 100,000 rounds of IDF standard rifle were stolen from an army base. Later, police investigation revised the number to 150,000.

Really! Have you actually ever met an Israeli? Any you believe this rubbish!

[Aditya_V]

This is like saying Osama had support from CIA thats why 9/11 happenned mistakes do happen. Hamas attack does not mean Israeli Soldiers are druggies. May be somewhere this is an off ramp for Ukraine, but to call Israeli's soldiers Druggies etc is uncalled for.

[drnayar]

who would call for peace after a terrorist attack ?!!

Again, why didnt PM ask for peace? Whereas he asked for cessation of hostilities in Ukraine.
Pretty clear what India's response will be if we are facing a similar situation.

we dont negotiate with terrorists.

[nits]

not sure if this thread is right place but we at BR need to disucss if such possibility can happen on our borders. Our terrains across borders are not flat like Israel but lets say tomorrow 4K terrorist try to cross Atari Border - can that be a realistic possibility ?

dont label "dhoti shivering" want to discuss possiblities and lesson learn India should take from it

[Amber G.]

Narendra Modi: "I thank Prime Minister @netanyahu for his phone call and providing an update on the ongoing situation. People of India stand firmly with Israel in this difficult hour. India strongly and unequivocally condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations.

[Pratyush]

not sure if this thread is right place but we at BR need to disucss if such possibility can happen on our borders. Our terrains across borders are not flat like Israel but lets say tomorrow 4K terrorist try to cross Atari Border - can that be a realistic possibility ?

dont label "dhoti shivering" want to discuss possiblities and lesson learn India should take from it

The BSF is well equipped handle such a situation.

[RajaRudra]

not sure if this thread is right place but we at BR need to disucss if such possibility can happen on our borders. Our terrains across borders are not flat like Israel but lets say tomorrow 4K terrorist try to cross Atari Border - can that be a realistic possibility ?

dont label "dhoti shivering" want to discuss possiblities and lesson learn India should take from it

The BSF is well equipped handle such a situation.

BSF can handle if that 4k spreads thin and try crossing. But if its concentrated 1 or 2 bottled attacks, holding will be difficult. Actual attack probability in city by our own peaceful population is more than cross border though.

[Tanaji]

Infiltration rarely happens at Attari or surrounding. The main route is via PoK and the surrounding mountains. Attari border is fenced and mined for most part.

4k terrorists are significant to move. Plus BSF / IA posture is different than IDF.

[Amber G.]

^^^ This is going to be analyzed, I am sure... there will be lessons for us all..
Meanwhile Google CEO Sundar Pichai’s message for employees working in Israel

He said that the company has started the process of contacting all employees working in Israel, where Google has two offices.
“I’m sure by now you’ve all seen the news of the terrible attacks on civilians in Israel, and the escalated conflict now underway

Lot of people from Tech companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, travel to Israel regularly (my son returned from there just a few days ago --many companies have offices/ vendors etc there)..

[Prem Kumar]

Shiv has posted this on X from Haaertz

https://twitter.com/shiv_cybersurg/stat ... 5434081457

The usage of cheap drones & loitering munitions to kill soldiers, crippling remote-monitoring-stations, disable Merkavas etc are a paradigm shift in asymmetric warfare. Beggar states & entities can nullify the conventional military advantages of their better equipped adversaries

Lots of lessons for us to absorb. Though India-Pak or India-China proximity is not as bad as Gaza-Israel, many of the same techniques can be employed

1) Disable our observation posts
2) Send jihadis into Kashmir with backpack-drones that can hit convoys, mil-installations, check-posts etc
3) Target LoC posts

These don't even include the kind of tactics that can be employed when there is an actual war/skirmish

Even if hard-kill & soft-kill measures are employed to counter drones, the day is not far off when there will be INS-guided, autonomous drones guided by AI that can independently choose a target, which means there is no GPS or radio-link to be jammed

Like "trophy" APS system, every vehicle or unit needs to be equipped with anti-drone systems, which will be orders of magnitude more expensive than cheap-drones and won't guarantee safety either

The cheapest "top-attack munition" is not an ATGM but a drone dropping a grenade on a turret to mission-kill a tank

[Kati]

Sir, please don't shoot the messenger. I just reported what I read in that article published in our neighboring country. This "news" was apparently carried originally by an Iranian outlet quoting a Hamas functionary. Thats all.

[hanumadu]

The Gaza strip is ~350 sq km. Israel should raze down a 10 sq km corner of Gaza every year and pack off the residents to some where else, either to west bank or several EU countries and Canada seem to have a thing for the Arabs. In years when incidents like these occur, Israel should take the opportunity to vanish 25 sq km of Gaza.

[NRao]

Just gathered some info from the media of our eastern neighbor. Not sure how credible this is.
1. Hamas had support from within Israel which explains why Hamas had a spectacular shock and awe.
2. Hamas has established contacts within IDF for quite sone time. Apparently there is some disaffection within IDF ranks.
(One may recall that due to BN's efforts to restructure the judiciary a large number of IDF reservists protested and staged demonstrations openly against the govt.)
3. Drug problem is very serious within lower level IDF ranks. This is what Hamas exploited to gain inside info in exchange for drugs.
4. A few months ago local media in Israel reported that 100,000 rounds of IDF standard rifle were stolen from an army base. Later, police investigation revised the number to 150,000.

Really! Have you actually ever met an Israeli? Any you believe this rubbish!

May I suggest one search "Left-leaning Israeli army generals"?

Goes back a few years. Not a new topic.

Now, is it probable? Dunno. Possible? That is what Israelis have been saying.

[Atmavik]

Just gathered some info from the media of our eastern neighbor. Not sure how credible this is.
1. Hamas had support from within Israel which explains why Hamas had a spectacular shock and awe.
2. Hamas has established contacts within IDF for quite sone time. Apparently there is some disaffection within IDF ranks.
(One may recall that due to BN's efforts to restructure the judiciary a large number of IDF reservists protested and staged demonstrations openly against the govt.)
3. Drug problem is very serious within lower level IDF ranks. This is what Hamas exploited to gain inside info in exchange for drugs.
4. A few months ago local media in Israel reported that 100,000 rounds of IDF standard rifle were stolen from an army base. Later, police investigation revised the number to 150,000.

# 2 is unbelievable. There can be internal dissent and a few lose chaps but it cannot be at this scale . This is suicidal

[Lisa]

Sir, please don't shoot the messenger. I just reported what I read in that article published in our neighboring country. This "news" was apparently carried originally by an Iranian outlet quoting a Hamas functionary. Thats all.

Sir, Please just read your own sentence above and think about it. "Pakis" said an "Iranian source" claiming "Hamas said" and you choose to post this! I would introspect. My last post on this matter.

[bala]

Major Gaurav Arya take on Israel - Hamas war. He has an interesting take on Kashmir. The Palestine revolt and political messaging was transferred to Kashmir. Now that Kashmir issue is more or less quelled with the removal of 370, India does not need another transfer from the middle east. Ukraine weapons are being used by Hamas, which they acquired from the black market. Intelligence failure happens all the time. This time Israel is using the failure to actually finish of the Hamas terror factory. We will see the final outcome and what transpires in the coming days.

[disha]

not sure if this thread is right place but we at BR need to disucss if such possibility can happen on our borders. Our terrains across borders are not flat like Israel but lets say tomorrow 4K terrorist try to cross Atari Border - can that be a realistic possibility ?

dont label "dhoti shivering" want to discuss possiblities and lesson learn India should take from it

As much as we wish it to not happen, we have to be prepared for the off-chance that it will happen. A complete collapse of intelligence-rapid response has happened earlier (Kargil, 9/11, 26/11) and now 10/8 and hence will happen in future.

The price of liberty is eternal vigil.

And when that happens, innocent lives will be lost. There will be anguish, pain and blame to go all around. At the same time, there is a silver lining to this dark cloud.

Hamas has successfully associated OlaUber with Barbarity and the political wing of the special minority peaceful religion. There are open calls being made in the capitals of all democracies that Jihadi Terrorism is now Nazism to the power of N and is an enemy within. It must be dealt with strictly. And how?

And in that light, one should read the message from the PM: "Terrorism in all its forms and manifestations need to be strongly and unequivocally condemned".

[Jay]

Just gathered some info from the media of our eastern neighbor. Not sure how credible this is.
1. Hamas had support from within Israel which explains why Hamas had a spectacular shock and awe.
2. Hamas has established contacts within IDF for quite sone time. Apparently there is some disaffection within IDF ranks.
(One may recall that due to BN's efforts to restructure the judiciary a large number of IDF reservists protested and staged demonstrations openly against the govt.)
3. Drug problem is very serious within lower level IDF ranks. This is what Hamas exploited to gain inside info in exchange for drugs.
4. A few months ago local media in Israel reported that 100,000 rounds of IDF standard rifle were stolen from an army base. Later, police investigation revised the number to 150,000.

i have been saying that from the first page .. it is for sure..as incredible as it is

Also why this is a huge lesson for India.. should and must be a wakeup call

What are you guys even smoking?

[sanjayc]

It is amazing that Jewish settlers on the Gaza border were unarmed, despite being a stone's throw away from the Palestinian Yahoos baying for their blood, living with the permanent prospect of border breach sooner or later. This is unforgivable, just like Indian government refusing to arm Kashmiri Pandits, leaving them vulnerable to midnight knocks from terrorists. Each adult Jewish settler, whether male or female, should have been entitled to an assault rifle, with 200 rounds each. Imagine Jews from every home firing back at Arab terrorists. Enforcing strict arms control in areas where unarmed general population is sitting ducks for armed terrorists, is stupidity of the higher order

[hanumadu]

It is amazing that Jewish settlers on the Gaza border were unarmed, despite being a stone's throw away from the Palestinian Yahoos baying for their blood, living with the permanent prospect of border breach sooner or later. This is unforgivable, just like Indian government refusing to arm Kashmiri Pandits, leaving them vulnerable to midnight knocks from terrorists. Each adult Jewish settler, whether male or female, should have been entitled to an assault rifle, with 200 rounds each. Imagine Jews from every home firing back at Arab terrorists. Enforcing strict arms control in areas where unarmed general population is sitting ducks for armed terrorists, is stupidity of the higher order

Since every adult would have military training anyway, arming them sounds most logical.

[Jay]

The Gaza strip is ~350 sq km. Israel should raze down a 10 sq km corner of Gaza every year and pack off the residents to some where else

If this would have worked then israel would have already done this without a second thought. They can raze as much they want, but the gaza population will stay there because of more than one reason. Even in this small corridor, israel is not able to control the inflow-outflow of men/materials and until this is achieved, israel won't have security guarantee's on it's terms.

[disha]

Lot of people from Tech companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, travel to Israel regularly (my son returned from there just a few days ago --many companies have offices/ vendors etc there)..

Israel has deep connect with US CA Silicon Valley. CEO of Oracle (Safra Catz) has stated publicly that if Oracle employees do not support Oracle's investments in Israel/Jerusalem, they can leave the company.

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/arti ... 17,00.html

"If Oracle employees don't agree with our mission to support Israel maybe we aren't the right company for them," said Catz

When asked about the protests against Israel organized by employees at Google and Apple, Catz said that "when you connect with Oracle you understand that we are committed to the U.S. and Israel. We are not flexible regarding our mission, and our commitment to Israel is second to none. This is a free world and I love my employees, and if they don't agree with our mission to support the State of Israel then maybe we aren't the right company for them. Larry (Ellison, co-founder of Oracle) and I are publicly committed to Israel and devote personal time to the country and no one should be surprised by that."

Given the barbarity of the special minority community and their Hamas agents supported by Palestinians, it is time for SV/CA techies to take stand. For example, where is the solidarity statement and march by the employees from "Do only Evil" Google and "Think Indifferent" Apple? Or the liberandus from Fbook?

In their silence, they support the barbarity done and continuously done by Jihadi terrorists.

[disha]

Excellent step by Mudi when he has been awarded highest honour by Palestine, not easy.

Modi doesn't really care for the awards he receives very respectfully. Only those giving do.

Modi and team successfully de-hyphenated Israel and Palestine almost a decade back. Until PVNR (that is until 90s), the standard CONgoon policy was to support Palestine and Yasser Arafat at all cost and keep Israel at arms length. This started changing under PVNR. Still the hyphenation was there and several old fogies with rose-tinted Nehruvian socialist mindset were doing the zero-sum game monkey balancing, all of which started changing around 2014.

India is great friend to both Israel and Palestine, and stands ready for help in their hour of need as a friend, for example during the COVID crises. India condemns all forms of terrorism. How difficult is that to understand?

I think the BRF posters are behind the curve here

[SBajwa]

Lot of people from Tech companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, travel to Israel regularly (my son returned from there just a few days ago --many companies have offices/ vendors etc there)..

Israel has deep connect with US CA Silicon Valley. CEO of Oracle (Safra Catz) has stated publicly that if Oracle employees do not support Oracle's investments in Israel/Jerusalem, they can leave the company.

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/arti ... 17,00.html

"If Oracle employees don't agree with our mission to support Israel maybe we aren't the right company for them," said Catz

When asked about the protests against Israel organized by employees at Google and Apple, Catz said that "when you connect with Oracle you understand that we are committed to the U.S. and Israel. We are not flexible regarding our mission, and our commitment to Israel is second to none. This is a free world and I love my employees, and if they don't agree with our mission to support the State of Israel then maybe we aren't the right company for them. Larry (Ellison, co-founder of Oracle) and I are publicly committed to Israel and devote personal time to the country and no one should be surprised by that."

Given the barbarity of the special minority community and their Hamas agents supported by Palestinians, it is time for SV/CA techies to take stand. For example, where is the solidarity statement and march by the employees from "Do only Evil" Google and "Think Indifferent" Apple? Or the liberandus from Fbook?

In their silence, they support the barbarity done and continuously done by Jihadi terrorists.

Off course!. The first customer of Oracle was CIA and since then US government is the biggest customer of Oracle along with financial sector.

[williams]

I think we in BRF know how these Islamic Terrorists/Forces (there is really not much difference) really fight. I am listing them here so that we are all clear.

1. They have scant regard for human rights, collateral damage, and civilian casualties both on their side and on the other side.
2. For them treaties, agreements, etc are tools to bide time. They will break them as soon as they get a chance.
3. They are tactically brilliant, without understanding any long-term consequences and/or strategy.
4. They will use religion when convenient to justify their illegal logic and then to guilt the secular enemies about how they were discriminated.
5. They will also use, complain, or even pay liberal, lefties about any collateral damage on their side as human rights violation and score on media propaganda.
6. They have a sense of entitlement that says the whole world is theirs and kafirs need to vacate what belongs to them.
7. They run to cover once their opponent comes back with full force and cries for a ceasefire in the name of humanity.
8. They will constantly lie about their own military casualties and will go to the extent of abandoning and not honoring their foot soldiers.
9. Their elite have no regard for their foot soldier's welfare and will only think about their own cavalier lifestyle.
10, For them, backstabbing is an art and they don't regard that as a cowardly act. Therefore they will backstab their own to maintain their self-interest.

Now Israel is probably one (not so secular) Democracy that deals with these people the best. If you remember, the word used by Bibi is "Vengence" and not "Justice". It is their good old Torah teaching: "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth". None of the liberal western media is going to like that and they will make all the noise. India definitely needs to learn from Israel. Whether it is the surgical strike or the Balakote strike, we only bestowed justice and there is no vengeance component. We need a change in thinking if we need to fight this kind of delusional enemy. BTW Chinese and any commie-thinking polity are natural allies to them since they both agree on 7 of the 10 things above.

[disha]

There is a subtle, even open, difference.

The PA (Palestinian Authority) rules West Bank and Mahmoud Abbas of PA gave that award. Hamas is in Gaza.


The PA and Hamas don't see eye-to-eye and Egypt & KSA have tried several times to settle the difference but without any success.

In July, Egypt hosted Abbas & Haniyeh but as usual it failed. But, Haniyeh made a startling statement that the IDF didn't pay attention to.

He said that the window of opportunity against Israel was approaching as Israel was having internal dissensions and was weak therefore politically. “We are facing an exceptional stage in the course of the conflict, which requires us to think collectively and take exceptional decisions on how to confront [Israel’s] policies and rein in these extremists”, Haniyeh said. Clear message there. {Much more prescient than what XJP talks of 'developments unseen in a century' etc.}

Thanks for bringing the nuance out above and hence putting it in bold. To add more to the above:

On 14 June 2007, Abbas dismissed Haniyeh and appointed Salam Fayyad in his place. This followed action by Hamas armed forces to take control of Palestinian Authority positions that were under the control of Fatah militias armed and supported by the United States and Israel. The appointment of Fayyad to replace Haniyeh has been challenged as illegal, ....

Haniyeh has continued to operate in Gaza, and has been recognized by a large number of Palestinians as the legitimate acting prime minister.

Of course, a large world population looks at the world map, sees India as a thumbnail image smaller than Greenland and assumes India is a very very very dense and small country.

Similarly the action by Israel is against Palestine-Gaza Strip and should be seen as action against Haniyeh, where Haniyeh is the toy-boy of Erdogandu & Qatar.

Think of this in reverse: Iran, Turkiye & Qatar will fight Israel to the last Gazi (as in Gaza'ian from Gaza Strip) in order to prove their ummah leadership.

[disha]

Off course!. The first customer of Oracle was CIA and since then US government is the biggest customer of Oracle along with financial sector.

Of course Bajwa'ji. But that was circa 1976. CIA has invested in several companies via its investment arm In-Q-Tel is the investment arm of CIA and here are the list of companies funded by CIA: https://www.iqt.org/portfolio/?taxonomy ... tax_id=272.

But now, where is the humanity of Do-only-evil Google and Think-Indifferent and other tech companies? Why is there no denouncing of the Palestinians supporting the barbarity of Hamas and in the name of OlaUber?

[g.sarkar]

Modiji has received many awards and honors from different nations. Now, if he has to tailor his foreign policy to please those countries, he/we are in trouble.
Gautam

[drnayar]

https://twitter.com/siddhantvm/status/1 ... 7159287073

#BREAKING : Hindu Forum #Canada successfully mobilised the entire Indian community to participate in a powerful display of solidarity with ‘Canadian Jewish organizations’. Several thousand individuals joined together with Israel's Jewish population and innocent civilians to firmly protest against the actions of Hamas terrorists

https://twitter.com/i/status/1711778017159287073

off note : "Not a single muslim refugee or illegal immigrant will be accepted in Poland"

https://twitter.com/Ostrov_A/status/1711785023886495778
but think of the most unimaginable evil … this is worse.

Israel just discovered 40 babies, who were slaughtered by Hamas, with many BEHEADED!

This is the bloodied room of one precious soul …

[ not posting image, as beyond shocking ]
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8F7Z4_XUAA ... ame=medium

[vera_k]

Our former finance minister graduated from this place. Hope admission standards were better back then.

31 Harvard student groups hold Israel 'entirely responsible' for Hamas attack

right..look at the names of those..Pakistani and Muslim predominated ones

Noteworthy -

Harvard South Asian Law Students Association
Harvard South Asians for Forward-Thinking Advocacy and Research
Sikhs and Companions of Harvard Undergraduates
Harvard Kennedy School South Asia Caucus Leadership
Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Students Association

Efforts underway to secure names.