Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 10 Oct 2023 23:57

^^^ From: Summers ( Ex President Emeritus at Harvard. )

In nearly 50 years of @Harvard affiliation, I have never been as disillusioned and alienated as I am today.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 11 Oct 2023 00:05

Jay wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 21:29
hanumadu wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 20:11 The Gaza strip is ~350 sq km. Israel should raze down a 10 sq km corner of Gaza every year and pack off the residents to some where else
If this would have worked then israel would have already done this without a second thought. They can raze as much they want, but the gaza population will stay there because of more than one reason. Even in this small corridor, israel is not able to control the inflow-outflow of men/materials and until this is achieved, israel won't have security guarantee's on it's terms.

It should be fairly easy to shut the land side. It must be the sea side that they are not able to plug.

Hamas now gave Israel a chance to inflict significantly more damage. Let's see if there will be refugees coming out of Gaza.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2023 00:40

https://lloydmelnick.com/2017/06/14/thi ... ippur-war/

S.Sridhar an old article about how confirmation bias blinds assessment.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2023 00:41

Amber G. wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 23:57 ^^^ From: Summers ( Ex President Emeritus at Harvard. )
In nearly 50 years of @Harvard affiliation, I have never been as disillusioned and alienated as I am today.

Context?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2023 00:47

sanman wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 23:52 Jeremy Corbyn risks fresh fury by suggesting Israel 'occupation' is the root cause of Hamas atrocities - as left-wing activists project Palestine flag on building during Labour conference

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rence.html

The gruesome Hamas attack will have a world wide fallout.
UK Labour is being criticized for their stand.
The US Congress Squad is in a similar soup.
India Congress is also being roasted as terror supporters.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2023 00:49

SRajesh wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 17:01
ramana wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 11:52

Let me tell you open secret. Mundra? Haifa and the Greek port all will be run by Adani.
KSA and UAE are paying for land bridge with highway and rail track.
Given the Hostility between Arabs and israeli's, every time there is an flare up of Palestinian issue, the security of the route is at stake.
How does it support the long term viability from the business point view for 'A' to sink in money on the three ports you mentioned??

How about we take a bet? IMEC will be there even after we both are no more.
Its the business viability that drove it in the first place.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 11 Oct 2023 01:45

ramana wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 00:41
Amber G. wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 23:57 ^^^ From: Summers ( Ex President Emeritus at Harvard. )

Context?

Someone tweeted to his tweet

Liberal boomer Jews who helped create this system will spend the rest of their lives being surprised by the fact that Jews rank at the bottom of the new racial hierarchy.

I was rejected from Harvard when @LHSummers was president. Maybe if he created an admissions system that favored more people like me and fewer affirmative action anti-Semites, 18 years later he wouldn't be so "disillusioned and alienated."

But in Larry's mind I'm sure it will remain a Mystery

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Oct 2023 02:06

ramana wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 00:41
Amber G. wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 23:57 ^^^ From: Summers ( Ex President Emeritus at Harvard. )

Context?

Many in Harvard are disgusted by the support shown by a few 'scholars'/students' for the Terrorists... Summers was ex president (and fairly well know liberal) - even he is disgusted... many others are too.
Harvard Student Groups Face Intense Backlash for Statement Calling Israel ‘Entirely Responsible’ for Hamas Attack

disha · Post by **disha** » 11 Oct 2023 02:12

g.sarkar wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 23:21 Modiji has received many awards and honors from different nations. Now, if he has to tailor his foreign policy to please those countries, he/we are in trouble.
Gautam

Which is not the case. And that line of thought needs to be abandoned. Of course as BRFites, we have to parse deep meanings within some ~~brainfarts~~ posts.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Oct 2023 02:17

Meanwhile:
The same Auranzebi voice in academia that stir up a frenzy about “Hindu nationalism” and condone Pakistan backed terror attacks in Kashmir, call for abandoning Israel as it faces down its worst terror attack in 50 years.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 11 Oct 2023 02:39

Why can’t the Hindu Forum Canada also successfully mobilize against the Khalicunts as well?

I hope what Audrey posted was real and she actually posted that because if that’s the case that’s the stick we can finally use to shut her the ****** up for good and drive out of the academic circe by getting her tenure stripped.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Oct 2023 03:03

Recently there was a very strong statement in support for Israel from US, UK, Italy, France ityadi ... but Canada was not included. Ditto in today's Biden's live speech .. Neither (AFAIK) in Netanyahu tweets ( which mentions Modi, Biden etc)..

This in spite of Canada having one of the large Jewish population.....

Not making it up..

It’s not just that Canada didn’t sign onto the statement from five of the G7 countries on Israel and the Hamas attack, "we weren’t invited."

Canada, a NATO ally of all five countries that made the statement, a fellow member of the G7, wasn’t even called and asked to join the call or sign the statement.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Oct 2023 03:13

hgupta wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 02:39 Why can’t the Hindu Forum Canada also successfully mobilize against the Khalicunts as well?

I hope what Audrey posted was real and she actually posted that because if that’s the case that’s the stick we can finally use to shut her the ****** up for good and drive out of the academic circe by getting her tenure stripped.

Audrey's post is real (I don't give/publicize link - so that it does not generate clicks - but is easy to see - it is today's tweet).. so is the Guardian article (again as a policy I don't link as not to generate clicks).

Her most recent tweet/filth (and article in rag Time) is this:

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 11 Oct 2023 03:28

Amber G. wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 02:17 Meanwhile:
The same Auranzebi voice in academia that stir up a frenzy about “Hindu nationalism” and condone Pakistan backed terror attacks in Kashmir, call for abandoning Israel as it faces down its worst terror attack in 50 years.

Right on cue.. these termites are in sync
Hamas asking for truce !!
The toolkit is always the same .. terror attacks followed by retribution then playing the victim card

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 11 Oct 2023 03:32

Amber G. wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 03:03 Recently there was a very strong statement in support for Israel from US, UK, Italy, France ityadi ... but Canada was not included. Ditto in today's Biden's live speech .. Neither (AFAIK) in Netanyahu tweets ( which mentions Modi, Biden etc)..

This in spite of Canada having one of the large Jewish population.....

Not making it up..

It’s not just that Canada didn’t sign onto the statement from five of the G7 countries on Israel and the Hamas attack, "we weren’t invited."

Canada, a NATO ally of all five countries that made the statement, a fellow member of the G7, wasn’t even called and asked to join the call or sign the statement.

Biden wagging his finger at falsdu's face at the G20

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 11 Oct 2023 03:35

I really want to see what the IDF's plan is going to be in their response. Till now it is their usual tactics of bombing known Hamas targets inside Gaza. But since all of them are in civilian buildings, they have to warn the residents to leave with a dud bomb/missile prior to the actual strike. And the Hamas terrorists have probably long since evacuated the structure anyway. So all they achieve is a controlled demolition of a building with little to no effect on Hamas itself. The Hamas rats just move to a different building of which there is no shortage in Gaza. Their top leaders are sitting pretty in Qatar where they seem untouchable.

This can't possibly be enough as a response now after the truly horrific scale and nature of this attack. But there are no easy options. A ground invasion will get bogged down in difficult urban combat with plenty of civilian casualties which will be used for propaganda purposes by Hamas and their supporters worldwide of which there seem to be more than ever, even in the west. Indiscriminate bombing without usual warnings will cause even more civilian deaths and Hamas has promised to kill hostages if the IDF does that. Incredibly difficult situation.

The Netanyahu government is going to start getting brickbats very soon from their own people for their failure to prevent the attack. Calls for him to resign will get louder as the days go by unless they can really figure out something that will seriously hurt hamas.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Oct 2023 03:47

[Hamas’s attack shows Benjamin Netanyahu failed Israel - Vox](https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanyahu- ... ar-history)

Second, [a columnist at Israel’s Ha’aretz newspaper](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... 9b5dbf0000) unearthed evidence that Netanyahu has intentionally propped up Hamas rule in Gaza — seeing Palestinian extremism as a bulwark against a two-state solution to the conflict.

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” the prime minister reportedly said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. “This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

These exact comments have not yet been confirmed by other sources. But the Times of Israel’s [Tal Schneider wrote on Sunday that](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years ... our-faces/) Netanyahu’s reported words “are in line with the policy that he implemented,” which did little to challenge and in some ways bolstered Hamas’s control over the Gaza Strip. Moreover, Schneider notes, “the same messaging was repeated by right-wing commentators, who may have received briefings on the matter or talked to Likud higher-ups and understood the message.” Some Netanyahu confidants have [said the same thing](https://twitter.com/DanielSeidemann/sta ... 0679304483), as have outside experts.

The first link above in Ha'aretz is to Gidi Weitz, who precedes the Hamas quote with: [Another Concept Implodes: Israel Can’t Be Managed by a Criminal Defendant - Israel News - Haaretz.com](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... 9b5dbf0000)

His {*Netanyahu's*} life’s work was to turn the ship of state from the course steered by his predecessors, from Yitzhak Rabin to Ehud Olmert, and make the two-state solution impossible. En route to this goal, he found a partner in Hamas.

The second link, to Tal Scheider, includes: [For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces | The Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years ... our-faces/)

Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.

According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2018, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.

While Netanyahu does not make these kind of statements publicly or officially, his words are in line with the policy that he implemented.

The third link is to a tweet: https://twitter.com/DanielSeidemann/sta ... 0679304483

Gen.Gershon Hacohen, emphatically rightwing and confidante of [Netanyahu], said the following: "Truth be told, Netanyahu's objective is to prevent the two-state option and therefore turned Hamas into his closest ally. Openly, Hamas is an enemy, beneath the surface, an ally".

Gen. Gershon Hacohen refers to Hamas: [After evacuating Gaza, a lonely general of faith struggles for Israel's salvation | The Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-eva ... salvation/)

This is also why, he added, “I prefer Hamas to Abu Mazen.” Because Hamas “helps me prevent a two-state solution” and is, covertly “an ally, because neither it nor I want a final solution and neither in my terms nor in its is there something that is everlasting.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Oct 2023 03:49

If the above is true, Israel played a Pakistan-like game, and got bitten by the snakes it cultivated in its own backyard.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 11 Oct 2023 03:50

nachiket wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 03:35 I really want to see what the IDF's plan is going to be in their response. Till now it is their usual tactics of bombing known Hamas targets inside Gaza. But since all of them are in civilian buildings, they have to warn the residents to leave with a dud bomb/missile prior to the actual strike. And the Hamas terrorists have probably long since evacuated the structure anyway. So all they achieve is a controlled demolition of a building with little to no effect on Hamas itself. The Hamas rats just move to a different building of which there is no shortage in Gaza. Their top leaders are sitting pretty in Qatar where they seem untouchable.

This can't possibly be enough as a response now after the truly horrific scale and nature of this attack. But there are no easy options. A ground invasion will get bogged down in difficult urban combat with plenty of civilian casualties which will be used for propaganda purposes by Hamas and their supporters worldwide of which there seem to be more than ever, even in the west. Indiscriminate bombing without usual warnings will cause even more civilian deaths and Hamas has promised to kill hostages if the IDF does that. Incredibly difficult situation.

The Netanyahu government is going to start getting brickbats very soon from their own people for their failure to prevent the attack. Calls for him to resign will get louder as the days go by unless they can really figure out something that will seriously hurt hamas.

i think the idea would be to depopulate the Gaza strip and raze most of the buildings and find and destroy all the tunnels., the Israelis are in for the long haul. No half measures. For Bibi and Israelis the job has just started. No one is saying the ground invasion is easy but its the only way.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 11 Oct 2023 04:00

drnayar wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 03:50 i think the idea would be to depopulate the Gaza strip and raze most of the buildings and find and destroy all the tunnels., the Israelis are in for the long haul. No half measures. For Bibi and Israelis the job has just started. No one is saying the ground invasion is easy but its the only way.

Gaza has over 2 million people. Where would the Israelis send them? Egypt? The Egyptians don't want them. I think they've made that quite clear. This is another thing the leftist snakes constantly shouting "Gaza is an open air prison" conveniently fail to mention. Gaza has a border with Egypt which the Israelis don't control. So how can Israel turn Gaza into a prison? All their Arab brothers in Egypt have to do is open their border with Gaza right? Why don't they do it? Because Hamas is in the habit of smuggling weapons and drugs instead of bringing in essential supplies when given the chance.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Oct 2023 04:16

The control for a narrative and therefore fake news is so funny.

I clicked on a URL that said Syria uses artillery, etc (second front). Only to find an article on Palestinian children being targeted by Israel.

disha · Post by **disha** » 11 Oct 2023 05:49

Atmavik wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 01:45 I was rejected from Harvard when @LHSummers was president. Maybe if he created an admissions system that favored more people like me and fewer affirmative action anti-Semites, 18 years later he wouldn't be so "disillusioned and alienated."

But in Larry's mind I'm sure it will remain a Mystery

Go Woke Go Broke is a true statement. One strategic brilliance Hamas did was graphically and with video evidence connect OlaUber with Barbarism.

At the same time I feel that Hamas wants to trigger WW3. If Iran enters the war, Turkiye and Saudi Barbaria will not be behind. They will enter war against Iran. And the dominoes will start falling, since US has to enter into war on behalf of Israel.

WW3 I always thought will happen in ME. With China-Iran-Russia as one major axis and India-Israel-US as another major axis. The third axis will be Turkiye-other assorted ISIS and Saudi Barbaria-Kuwait-Qatar-UAE as semi-major axis. The rest of the world have to cast their lot among the four.

Am I off my rockers?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Oct 2023 05:49

titash · Post by **titash** » 11 Oct 2023 05:54

nachiket wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 03:35 ...Their top leaders are sitting pretty in Qatar where they seem untouchable...

So perhaps the logical thing to do is go after the a$$holes sitting in Doha. What am I missing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamim_bin_Hamad_Al_Thani

Is this dude the mover & shaker in Qatar? Or is there a puppeteer behind the throne? What's preventing him from getting it in the rear end?

After all Israel/US are not India with the shackles of XX million guest workers in the Gulf

Israel has bonked an Al Jazeera building, and an Al Jazeera journalist in the past. Pretty sure moral issues aren't holding them back.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Oct 2023 06:00

Netanyahu/Israeli right-wing needs two factions to continue to exist among the Palestinians, with at least one of them dedicated to destroying Israel, so that he doesn't have to negotiate with either. That will modulate Israeli actions in Gaza.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Oct 2023 06:14

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Oct 2023 06:21

Bharat needs to shut all madrasas. No exceptions.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Oct 2023 07:07

ramana wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 00:40 https://lloydmelnick.com/2017/06/14/thi ... ippur-war/

S.Sridhar an old article about how confirmation bias blinds assessment.

Thanks for the article ramana. Interesting.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 11 Oct 2023 07:12

A_Gupta wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 06:00 Netanyahu/Israeli right-wing needs two factions to continue to exist among the Palestinians, with at least one of them dedicated to destroying Israel, so that he doesn't have to negotiate with either. That will modulate Israeli actions in Gaza.

This seems to be what Israeli liberals are saying as well. BN prefers Hamas to a 2 state solution.

Anyhow the big question is how do they fix Hamas if:
A. They don't really want to (see above)
B. Even if they truly want to, how do they separate Hamas from 2 million Palestinians in Gaza? Is this even possible?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Oct 2023 07:12

Beheaded babies?

Really?

Enough.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 11 Oct 2023 07:29

williams wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 22:40 I think we in BRF know how these Islamic Terrorists/Forces (there is really not much difference) really fight. I am listing them here so that we are all clear. ...

Williams, this is a great summary of the facts we all know but keep forgetting.

I would request forum admins to make your post a sticky somewhere, to be referred to in the future as and when relevant.

@ramana (w.r.t. IMEC):

IMEC will be there even after we both are no more. It's the business viability that drove it in the first place.

I agree completely. All this talk about "IMEC is dead" is panicky and overwrought.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 11 Oct 2023 07:30

nachiket wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 04:00
Gaza has over 2 million people. Where would the Israelis send them? Egypt? The Egyptians don't want them. I think they've made that quite clear. This is another thing the leftist snakes constantly shouting "Gaza is an open air prison" conveniently fail to mention. Gaza has a border with Egypt which the Israelis don't control. So how can Israel turn Gaza into a prison? All their Arab brothers in Egypt have to do is open their border with Gaza right? Why don't they do it? Because Hamas is in the habit of smuggling weapons and drugs instead of bringing in essential supplies when given the chance.

2 million is nothing. The EU absorbed 5 million Syrian refugees and 10 million Ukrainian refugees. 2 million is chump change just for Norway.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 11 Oct 2023 07:35

NRao wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 07:12 Beheaded babies?

Really?

Enough.

This is sickening, disgusting and vomit-inducing, to be sure -- but not surprising. It is the Islamic way of war. PBUH himself mandated it. And for sure they shouted AhA (A**ah ho Akbar) as they performed the act.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2023 07:36

I expect Israel will occupy Gaza till it is deHamased which might take a hundred years (three generations).
The Hamas folks can go to Qatar or Turkey.
Always think of Shiv's oil droplet model. The hard-core jihadis have to be excised if the moderate Muslims are to have a chance.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 11 Oct 2023 07:39

A good ground perspective different from mainstream rhetoric.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 11 Oct 2023 07:43

Though it's regular PakiJabi chatter, few tidbits of how Hamas actually made money by selling plots and appartments to Jewish settlements is revealed. Paki elites know the stuff.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 11 Oct 2023 07:47

disha wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 05:49 WW3 I always thought will happen in ME. With China-Iran-Russia as one major axis and India-Israel-US as another major axis. The third axis will be Turkiye-other assorted ISIS and Saudi Barbaria-Kuwait-Qatar-UAE as semi-major axis. The rest of the world have to cast their lot among the four.

Am I off my rockers?

You are not off your rocker, that's for sure. Any time you have a shooting war in the Middle East involving Israel and one or more Muslim countries, WW3 is a very real possibility. I have my doubts about your "semi-major axis" (Saudia - Kuwait - Qatar - UAE), but that is a mere detail. The fundamental war risk is certainly there.

One of the real possibilities I see from this near-WW3 situation is that India's "good" relations with Iran may very well be shattered. And (a lower probability) maybe relations with Russia too.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Oct 2023 07:52

Muppalla wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 07:43

Though it's regular PakiJabi chatter, few tidbits of how Hamas actually made money by selling plots and appartments to Jewish settlements is revealed. Paki elites know the stuff.

I get the sense that Pak is involved in this Hamas terrorist attack.
Not just the usual West Asian suspects: Turkey, Iran, and Qatar.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 11 Oct 2023 07:56

Roop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 07:35
NRao wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 07:12 Beheaded babies?

Really?

Enough.
This is sickening, disgusting and vomit-inducing, to be sure -- but not surprising. It is the Islamic way of war. PBUH himself mandated it. And for sure they shouted AhA (A**ah ho Akbar) as they performed the act.

You have a problem with Hamas that's fine. No need to attack the religion of one particular Indian community. Seriously. Take a breath.
And how much of this baby beheading thing is verified news, and how much of it is white helmet stuff?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 11 Oct 2023 07:59

ramana wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 07:36 I expect Israel will occupy Gaza till it is deHamased which might take a hundred years (three generations).
The Hamas folks can go to Qatar or Turkey.
Always think of Shiv's oil droplet model. The hard-core jihadis have to be excised if the moderate Muslims are to have a chance.

That seems like the only possibility. It'll take a lot getting it done. That's for sure.