Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

[drnayar]

Israel bans Al Jazeera in the country due to its propaganda coverage

setting the record straight

https://twitter.com/i/status/1712104297104556304

[NRao]

Interesting discussion, with a few neat data points:

[Jay]

Israel bans Al Jazeera in the country due to its propaganda coverage

setting the record straight

https://twitter.com/i/status/1712104297104556304

We should have done the same thing with BBC when they rehashed the "modi is bad" documentary over the summer. Just cut off their golden goose, which is the audience and make their advertisers flee and see how they come crawling back with the narrative we want. All this tax raid nonsense is just playing with kid gloves.

[IndraD]

Reports suggest Palestinians permitted to work in Israel were among those who perpetrated the massacre.

The survivors recognised some of whom had worked on the Kibbutz.

They were the ones leading the Pogrom. https://x.com/BenMFreeman/status/171208 ... 10609?s=20

[saip]

Interestingly, Taliban is now saying they are hoping for peace and calm on both sides. And they won't send any fighters to Israel. They don't support terrorism and will not get involved in it

Imagine the level of depravity and barbarism that Hamas unleashed on Jews that even Taliban had to distance themselves.
These Hamas animals need to be exterminated.

Why the Taliban, now even Hamas is denying that they beheaded babies or molested women.

[Vayutuvan]

.

[Vayutuvan]

^^^ the ultra-orthodox are exempted from military service.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/cabinet-s ... aw-expiry/

Those folks partying don't seem to be orthodox - ultra or whatever. Are Israelis allowed to own guns? Do they have something similar to second amendment in their constitution?

@Vera_k answered it in the negative. It is suprprsing since they already know from their military service how to handle weapons of all kinds.

[Amber G.]

^^^ To own a firearm in Israel, individuals must apply for and obtain a firearms license. ..( subject to thorough background checks and requirements).
(individuals may be allowed to apply for civilian firearms licenses after completing their military service)
The type of firearm that an individual is allowed to purchase and possess can vary based on their license and justification. The Israeli government generally permits the ownership of handguns and rifles for self-defense purposes...but even with military training, there are restrictions on the number of firearms a person can own, as well as the type and caliber of firearms..

[Vayutuvan]

IMEC was announced a few weeks ago, and even if Chinese had moles in G20 official circles they would have known this at most say 6 months ago. The operation is certainly something that has been planned for years given all the stockpiling of rockets, training of paragliders, tunnel excavation and execution. This has hardly anything to do with IMEC.

Abraham Accords are irking them terrorists and Iran. IMEC is the last straw. So they acted while Saudi-Israel peace talks are going on and an accord imminent.

[Vayutuvan]

As a FYI, Islam does not allow Muslims to "reverse migrate" (which is what SA accepting Muslim refugees would be).

No SA is not accepting Muslim refugees. They are asking Egypt to accomodate them. Gaza City will still be nominally a Muslim city but an international whatever city. Muslim in name.

[NRao]

As a FYI, Islam does not allow Muslims to "reverse migrate" (which is what SA accepting Muslim refugees would be).

No SA is not accepting Muslim refugees. They are asking Egypt to accomodate them. Gaza City will still be nominally a Muslim city but an international whatever city. Muslim in name.

My comment was a generic one - based on "Islam".

SA, led by MBS, is hardly considered "Islamic". The man is building a slim city (some 150 miles long)(Neom?) along the western border, that is supposed to rival Europe - yes, wine + dine + blonds. The story goes that the M&M will be enclosed in tall walls, within which the Ummaha can feel It and once they step outside feel the opposite side of the coin.

IMEC has a client.

The Prince + PM (to protect him from being snatched) has already been declared an Ex-Muslim.

[ramana]

Victor Davis Hanson tweets

The Late, Great Hamas Finally Got Its Wish–And . . . ?

Ever since Hamas was “elected” to run Gaza, and then followed the usual “one election/one time” Middle-East formula, it has bragged nonstop that its agenda was to erase Israel off the face of the earth (cf. the wall map in the office of our Representative Tlaib).

Its unabashed nihilist boasts resonated throughout the Palestinian “movement.” Its fiery threats delighted the Arab street.

Indeed, Hamas was soon celebrated as the most “authentic” of the radical Palestinian terrorist movements.

Which cadre of thugs could top its end-of-days rhetoric, its assured and steady supply of money and weapons from Iran, its satanic eagerness to mutilate and dismember, and the sanctuary and financial wherewithal offered to it by our “ally” Qatar?

None.

Since it was viewed as the most “volatile” and creepy of the Palestinian factions, and the most useful to Iran, the Obama and Biden Administrations appeased its murderers. Was it not part of their hare-brained grand strategy of empowering theocratic Iran, and its Syrian, Hezbollah, and Hamas hirelings?

Their campaign (remember the “they literally know nothing” media and the Obama “echo chamber” created by a boastful Ben Rhodes?) was to forge these disparate Islamists into a crescent of resistance to Israel and any “moderate” Arab regime (recall the Obama-Biden transitory hatred of the Gulf sheikdoms).

The result would be “creative tension” —as well as payback for the Israeli election of Netanyahu.

Through this formula, Obama believed he could always pressure Israel to grant concessions to radical Palestinians, thanks to the looming threat of an ever menacing (and soon to be nuclear) Iran, with help from Obama’s other friends—the then Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt and his pal, the neo-Ottomanist and anti-Semite Erdogan of Turkey, Obama’s self-described personal liaison to the Islamic world.

Yes, of course, this was sheer madness—if perhaps characteristic of Obama’s well-known orneriness.

Perhaps someday soon, a few disinterested historians might even record that the current nightmare in Israel is the logical end-result of what Barack Obama, John Kerry (remember his Trump-era Paris reconnaissance with the Iranians?), Ben Rhodes, Valerie Jarrett, Robert Malley, Joe Biden, Antony Blinken, and a host of other incompetent but otherwise haughty and dangerous people once conjured up.

A defiant, and empowered murderous Hamas was one of the many dividends of their appeasement and grand Middle-East schemes—given the eagerness of the Obama and Biden administrations to send hundreds of millions of dollars into Gaza, despite warnings from their own experts that such cash would enhance terrorism and abet the evil work of Hamas with an American financial stamp of legitimacy.

Hence, a soon to be nuclear Iran, freed from sanctions, had enough money (remember the nocturnal cash pallets on the Tehran tarmac?) to fund its surrogate global death squads.

Hamas has killed Jewish civilians for nearly two decades, always escaping the full wrath of Israel retaliation by appealing to the amoral consciousness of leftwing European and American governments. It counted on ample help from both Iran and Arab regimes, along with Turkey, which always screams “instability” at the first sign of Israeli retaliation.

The blustering Hamas has now murdered 1,000 Jews in their homes, preferring especially to gun down children, reportedly behead babies, torture the doomed, rape the helpless, execute the elderly, and brutalize women—and topping the killing off in good SS fashion by gleeful dismemberment and desecration of Jewish corpses.

So, they finally got their wish for their own version of the Holocaust, for what they had always bragged would be the “final” Israel-ending war—as their cowardly elders announced last Saturday from their protected enclaves.

Yes, Hamas promised their mass killing of innocents would ignite the Muslim world, incite simultaneous attacks on Israel from Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and perhaps Egypt—all as their planned anniversary replay of the Yom Kippur War’s first 48 hours.

And it may—or may not.

The ebullient people of Gaza seemed initially enthralled at videos of mutilated Jews, and showed their zeal by spitting on hostages carried back home for supposed Roman-like triumphs before their public sacrifices. Videos of the gruesome killings of Jews were hot downloads on Gaza mobile phones.

Now mutilating dead Israelis, now boasting how brave their sons were in slaying unarmed jews inside Israel, Gazans assumed a shocked Israel would capitulate.

Would not its megaphones in the West characteristically protect them and restrain Israel?

Could not they themselves always ensure a few thousand of their own civilians be sacrificed as expendable human shields of their missiles pads, and thus become necessary fuel for their boilerplate accusations of “war crimes” that usually curtailed Israeli retribution?

But now the Israeli retaliation seems oblivious to all that.

It may not be like the past incursions into Gaza that were manipulated by a cowardly Hamas to gain media sympathy for “collateral damage” that they themselves had engineered.

Predictably, as Israel ramps up the air attacks and prepares for the ground assault, the global media is showing a concern for civilian collateral damage in a way it never quite did for murdered Jewish innocents and beheaded infants.

Western governments are terrified of Middle East killers who may return to their previous attacks on their European citizens. After all, Western leftwing suicidal immigration policies have ensured large unassimilated Muslim populations. Millions have fled the self-created violence and tyranny of the Middle East only to cheer it on from a safe distance in their adopted Western homelands, whose welcoming of these “refugees” is now so often reciprocated with sheer contempt for the apologetic hosts.

Nonetheless, the Gaza crowds of 48 hours ago who were boasting their sons murdering with impunity and spat on bound defenseless women, are now aggrieved. But they might as well be barking at the moon about the supposed “unfairness” of the Israeli air counterattack.

Among the rubble of once Hamas high-rises they are weeping for media cameras, calling on a corrupt and anti-Semitic UN for accustomed relief, threatening on spec the West with who knows what (is it now infant beheading or body dismemberment?), and in general suddenly quite unhappy about their “final” war they just recently boasted was all but won.

Will the heroic legions of Hamas who beheaded and raped now pour out in the streets to fight the IDF and push them into the sea as promised?

Perhaps not?

Some final thoughts: Why has Iran gone from bragging three days ago about its training and tutelage of the Hamas killers suddenly to pleading that while it is certainly delighted about the beheadings, rapes, executions, and mutilations, it technically had no actionable role in ensuring them?

The truth is that a Hamas right now is alternately threatening and begging Western governments, beseeching its suddenly mum Iranian suppliers, whining that Hezbollah and the PNA have not yet sufficiently shared the bloodletting of this war, and generally railing for more jihad from a few of its increasingly so-so, nonplused Middle-Eastern sponsors.

Hamas fears it may have boxed itself in, with two American aircraft carriers between it and Iran, with private satisfaction from many Arab states that their nuisance Hamas might at last have committed suicide through its mass homicide, with even fanatic supporters hard-pressed to make their “moral” case for the beheading of babies, and with a half-million IDF soldiers headed their way to deliver upon them divine justice, perhaps in the Lincolnesque Second Inaugural sense of “the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.”

Translated, that means for the first time in its existence an unholy Hamas may not get out of its self-created rendezvous with what it has so duly earned, given there is now no assurance of third-party relief and thus no restraint on Israel.

Even a shaken and shamed Biden administration—guilty of an open border and its de facto support for Hamas and Iran, but suddenly scared of a furious election-cycle American public—may for a while not call off Israel.

The arrogant but half-educated Harvard crowd, the European Islamists, the woke and pampered anti-Semites on Western campuses, the AOC socialists, the pro-Hamas Squad, the BLM chorus who cheered on the Hamas glider death attack, of course CAIR, and all the usual suspects for now are as furious as they are impotent—petulant that for once, just this once, and for a while longer at least, no one is listening to their oh so tired amoral defense of the indefensible.

[NRao]

IMEC was announced a few weeks ago, and even if Chinese had moles in G20 official circles they would have known this at most say 6 months ago. The operation is certainly something that has been planned for years given all the stockpiling of rockets, training of paragliders, tunnel excavation and execution. This has hardly anything to do with IMEC.

Abraham Accords are irking them terrorists and Iran. IMEC is the last straw. So they acted while Saudi-Israel peace talks are going on and an accord imminent.

IMEC has nothing to do with G-20 (referring to yensoy's post). It is Modi's way of showing a finger to Xi.

[ramana]

Imagine the level of depravity and barbarism that Hamas unleashed on Jews that even Taliban had to distance themselves.
These Hamas animals need to be exterminated.

Why the Taliban, now even Hamas is denying that they beheaded babies or molested women.

Here is a quote from.President Biden.
He has seen the images.

https://twitter.com/therealmrbench/stat ... z41Jw&s=19

[Cain Marko]

You have a problem with Hamas that's fine. No need to attack the religion of one particular Indian community. Seriously. Take a breath.
And how much of this baby beheading thing is verified news, and how much of it is white helmet stuff?

Cain'ji, it is the Hamas and ISIS types and all the mullahs who tied OlaUber with all barbaric activities since millenia+ ., in fact even the AMU types went on a march in support of palestine and denouncing israel shouting "tera mera rishta kya, la illaha illallah". Do you know what it means?....SNIP

Seriously Cain'ji, please take a breath and please pray how you tell that to the dead victims of Jihadi terrorism?

Disha Sir,
I had two reasons for the post I made in response to Roop:

1. Ridiculing/dissing religious icons that are shared by millions of patriotic Indians of a different religion is in bad taste. Period. I'm not sure what BRs official policy is on this but I have had similar spats with posters before and the mods have always, without exception given me no reason to believe that they condone such provocative and counter productive behavior. There ARE many Muslims who serve the country with pride and joy, I don't believe these will feel particularly welcome with such posts.
2. The Hamas babies incident. All the press regarding this comes from the claims of the IDF. The usual Western press from fox newj to al guardian are happy to report it. Just like they did WMD in eyeraq and chemical weapons in Syria and Ukrainian victory vs Russia. I'm sure you can understand my skepticism.

Hamas itself, which is ever willing to show us videos of their "exploits" as is the won't of such scum, has actually denied this.

Obviously this is not to remotely suggest that these outfits are anything but scum. Point is that we have seen in the past that they are also often doing someone else's bidding. I believe there is some serious daal mein kaala stuff here. The shrill cries of war vs Iran only makes me more suspicious. A clearer picture needs to emerge.

[Cain Marko]

Coming back to topic - yes, Hamas needs to go. But this makes one wonder:
1. How will you make hamas disappear - billion dollar question?
2. Occupy a city of 2 million? for how long? Will that work?
3. More importantly, who is propping up Hamas (remember ISIS and Keeda also need to go, but ultimately who were propping them up?)

One suspects that here is much more to this than meets the eye.

Cain Ji, I don't think you can disappear hamas but can degrade it's fighting will for a few years. Israeli occupation of Gaza will start to give them diminishing returns after a certain point. Unless some political concessions come into picture(not at this hour), the only viable solution will be to de populate gaza but this will for sure widen the scope of conflict and who ever will inherit this populace will also inherit the war.

Does anyone remember the 2006 israel-hezbolla conflict? It will be good to re visit the conflict to understand the limitations and strengths of israel and it's enemies.

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals ... epared.pdf

Thanks for the link Jay saar. The conclusion is telling. Question is: will the IDF be able to effective mount all out combat and upscale counter insurgency? Doubtful. Might be a better idea to get some kind of coalition going. Like they did in the Balkans? Balkanize the area and deal with it piecemeal?
I think MBS might have provided a good way out (if he was serious).

[Atmavik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_FSNX6CF4&t=2268s

Analysis of the Israel Hamas War

Hudson Institute


few points from the video.

1. massive operation by Hamas with over 1000 + fighters
2. dronze dropped specially designed tandem warheads to take down Armour
3. 6 breach points in the wall/fence
4. Hamas had 2 groups with first to shoot and kill. the second established a shuttle to kidnap and take hostages back to gaza
5. IDF response was confused by the rocket attack and the response was very delayed
6. IF there is proof of IRAN hand then US will have to put boots on ground and the conflict will spread

[ramana]

There are 14 American (maybe Israeli -Americans) hostages with Hamas.

Cain Marko, Biden said he saw the images of the beheadings.

[g.sarkar]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-ta ... -kfar-aza/
‘At least 40 babies killed’: Foreign reporters taken to massacre site in Kfar Aza
With terrorists’ bodies still lying in the grass, international press witnesses firsthand the shocking aftermath of Hamas’s slaughter of Israeli civilians
LAZAR BERMAN,10 October 2023
The IDF took dozens of foreign journalists on Tuesday to see for themselves the death and destruction wrought by Hamas terrorists this week.
With explosions and artillery fire in the background, the crews, wearing helmets and flak jackets, picked through the destroyed Kibbutz Kfar Aza, where the bodies of Palestinian terrorists still lay outside of fire-scarred homes.
The journalists were protected by at least a company of IDF soldiers, clad in full combat gear as they continued to clear homes.
Reporters spoke of the stench of death in the air.
Still, the pastoral simplicity of the kibbutz with its lawns and one-story homes was evident, further underscoring how jarring were the atrocities that took place only days before.
......
Gautam
Also see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or9l7gIOYlQ
Israel's PMO confirms many babies were beheaded • A Big VC says will not hire Harvard signatories
The Prime Minister's Office of Israel has now confirmed that in the Kubbutz Kfar Aza among the 100-plus massacred were 40 children of which some had their heads separated from their bodies.
Bill Ackman, a big Venture Capitalist from the United States has tweeted out saying those belonging to the Harvard clubs that sided with Hamas will not be hired by several corporations. He went on to urge Harvard to publish the list of members of these Harvard organizations
Freedom of Speech is fine but it has consequences. The Woke ecosystem should realize this as it will affect their future.

[ramana]

This is sickening, disgusting and vomit-inducing, to be sure -- but not surprising. It is the Islamic way of war. PBUH himself mandated it. And for sure they shouted AhA (A**ah ho Akbar) as they performed the act.

You have a problem with Hamas that's fine. No need to attack the religion of one particular Indian community. Seriously. Take a breath.
And how much of this baby beheading thing is verified news, and how much of it is white helmet stuff?

CM, Do you recall the tailor Kanhyailal was beheaded in Rajashtan by two proto-Hamas types?

And where did Roop link Indian Muslims?
Let us not find ghosts in others posts and whip ourselves.

[sanjayc]

The Hamas babies incident. All the press regarding this comes from the claims of the IDF. The usual Western press from fox newj to al guardian are happy to report it. Just like they did WMD in eyeraq and chemical weapons in Syria and Ukrainian victory vs Russia. I'm sure you can understand my skepticism.

Hamas itself, which is ever willing to show us videos of their "exploits" as is the won't of such scum, has actually denied this.

My feeling is that beheadings of babies (and also of adults) definitely happened. IDF would have made videos, but not being released to the media yet. These would be shown to select people. A few years ago, I saw many pix of beheaded babies by ISIS, with parents carrying their headless bodies. Also read interview of an ISIS fighter who said they love beheading toddlers the most as that gives them a special kick. Hamas is no better than ISIS as they are driven by the same rabid ideology

[ramana]

[ramana]

What I wonder is the many tales of gory atrocities worse than the orcs were done by Hamas such that even Taliban is distancing themselves yet forum members doubt the acts?
On PGurus, AIM started the bokwas of doubting story and got a ton of flak in comments.
Now Pgurus has put a new video confirming the beheadings.

Don't lose your moral compass.
BTW there was also a report of a pregnant woman and her fetus disembowled. That is straight from the Wars of Succession of the four Caliphs. Ali's supporters got that treatment by Muwaiyya.
I don't want to wield the danda.

[g.sarkar]

I do not know why we at BRF are arguing. Sar tan se juda is a common practice of the peaceful Volks. And they define "children" in different ways. Different strokes for different folks.
Gautam
Added later: There was a delay in officially reporting the act, as I am sure they were verifying all the facts before publishing. But now expect the war in Gaza to intensify.

[disha]

1. Ridiculing/dissing religious icons that are shared by millions of patriotic Indians of a different religion is in bad taste. Period. I'm not sure what BRs official policy is on this but I have had similar spats with posters before and the mods have always, without exception given me no reason to believe that they condone such provocative and counter productive behavior. There ARE many Muslims who serve the country with pride and joy, I don't believe these will feel particularly welcome with such posts.

Cain Marko'ji, one needs to have a complete clarity of thought and call out the truth. However naked it is. And I do have friends, colleagues and ex-army personal and their kids from other religion. So yes, the social pressures of treading the line is immense.

First of all lets recognize what it truly is. It is Jihadi terrorism borne out of the fact that a particular section of a particular religion has weaponized religion to achieve their political goals with complete impunity and barbarity. And while doing so they also take down their own civilized sections, if it perceives that it comes in their way. And that religion is Islam.

If you do not think that is the truth, please give me counter examples where other religions, particularly of the non-book kind, in the last 1000 year spread on the back of a sword or a gun.

Second, some adherents of Islam do *not* condone Jihadi terrorism and are scared that the Jihadi terrorism will wipe out everyone. They do know that some of their forefathers have been converted on coercion. Is it that fear of complete wipe that leads them to condone Jihadi terrorism or they have a stronger moral compass. I have seen Md. Arif Khan and Rubika Liaqat. They have a stronger moral compass.

And the complete clarity of thought is this, Jihadi terrorism must be condemned in all its forms. All sane and democratically elected political leaders have said that "terrorism in all its form must be condemned and rooted out". I am saying "Jihadi terrorism in all its form must be condemned and rooted out". What's the difference? Calling out Jihad makes me wrong? Should I be ashamed in calling out Jihadi terrorism?

If you think that we should not call out Jihadi terrorism, then that is your personal thought. I do not think there is a point in you admonishing others and controlling what others say or not about Jihadi terrorism.

And Cain Marko'ji, when are you going to stand up for the oppressed? I did mention that I was ridiculed for my religion and beliefs. Isn't that Kafir-Phobia? Okay, if you do not want to stand up for me, fine. If I stand up for myself, why are you chopping my legs off? What's your fear?

2. The Hamas babies incident. All the press regarding this comes from the claims of the IDF. The usual Western press from fox newj to al guardian are happy to report it. Just like they did WMD in eyeraq and chemical weapons in Syria and Ukrainian victory vs Russia. I'm sure you can understand my skepticism.

Hamas itself, which is ever willing to show us videos of their "exploits" as is the won't of such scum, has actually denied this.

No, I do not understand your skepticism. You believe Hamas and not IDF, or is there a degree on your belief based on the barbarity? Do you have a scale of barbarity? If there is one, I would like to understand your scale of barbarity! Like a woman is gang-raped, stripped naked and murdered and her body defiled. Believable. 30 infants slaughtered. Not Believable. In fact you think IDF planted it as fake story to inflame passion! Isnt' that gas lighting?

Why is 30 infants slaughtered not believable? 59 people, mostly women and children were burnt alive in Godhra carnage. Believable or not? Kashmiri pandits were brutally raped and murdered? Believable or not? Lt. Saurabh Kalia and his men brutally tortured. Believable or not?

And all of the above because, Kafirs occupied the land of the Momeens? And were brutally subjugating Momeens? is it believable that the wars of 1947, 65, 71, 99 happened? Do you know the youngest victim of 26/11? No infants were murdered?

I think you should have listened to what the Israeli PM said publicly and on TV & also on his calls to the world leaders. Believe it or not, 30 infants were slaughtered. Execution style. And their bodies desecrated. The worst thing to to re-visit jews since holocaust. At least, anti-semitism is a crime. Anti-Hindi (or Anti-Kafir) is not a crime. It is a sport.

Obviously this is not to remotely suggest that these outfits are anything but scum. Point is that we have seen in the past that they are also often doing someone else's bidding. I believe there is some serious daal mein kaala stuff here. The shrill cries of war vs Iran only makes me more suspicious. A clearer picture needs to emerge.

Even if they are handmaidens to a grand conspiracy, going after infants and toddlers? Are they so crazed that even psychopaths look sane compared to them.

You do not have to believe in any conspiracy to call out the barbarity of Jihadi supporters and pseudo-liberals who do equal-equal or gaslighting anti-semitism, anti-hinduism and anti-Kafirism are worse perpetrators of jihadi terrorism.

What you have done Cain'ji, is an equivalent of holocaust denial. My only request for you is to re-examine your stand.

[disha]

I do not know why we at BRF are arguing. Sar tan se juda is a common practice of the peaceful Volks. And they define "children" in different ways.

Denial. The news are so shocking that the mind goes into a denial mode. It is trying to protect itself. It is a psychological breakdown at multiple levels, and Jihadi terrorism has achieved that.

There is no difference between persons who deny barbarity of jihadi terrorism and insane persons. Both live in a world of cognitive dissonance.

[Pratyush]

Why are we even debating the Hamas barbarity?

Have we not seen what happened in Mumbai on 26/11.

[Cain Marko]

There are 14 American (maybe Israeli -Americans) hostages with Hamas.

Cain Marko, Biden said he saw the images of the beheadings.

Sir, there is still fog of war in this. US intel, political rhetoric and media have been "mistaken" in the past. Let us see. This is very reminiscent of that young burka clad girl giving witness testimony about Saddam's men "killing babies" in Kuwait. There are people baying for war vs eyeran right now on both sides of the US poliitcal spectrum. And dear Nikki is speaking of "finishing them"!

I need not list the many such "false flag" ops - you know this better than me. But still, let us recount:
1. Bucha massacre by russian forces??
2. White helmets and chemical weapons used by Assad
3. Weapons of mass destruction in eyeraq
4. Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter posing as nurse witness to baby "massacre" in Kuwait.

You have a problem with Hamas that's fine. No need to attack the religion of one particular Indian community. Seriously. Take a breath.
And how much of this baby beheading thing is verified news, and how much of it is white helmet stuff?

CM, Do you recall the tailor Kanhyailal was beheaded in Rajashtan by two proto-Hamas types?

And where did Roop link Indian Muslims?
Let us not find ghosts in others posts and whip ourselves.

Sir, who is being referred to as PBUH in Roop's post? And what do you think Indian Muslims sentiments are about said PBUH who "mandated" the beheading of babies? If attacking the icon of a religion does not constitute attacking said religion, what does?
As far as the 40 beheading massacre goes, let us wait and watch. I am circumspect because of similar stories that came out of the western press and political establishment in the past that have been "suspect". This one especially reminds me of that burkha clad "nurse" witness who testified about Saddam's men killing babies in incubators, and we all know where that went.
A recent gallup poll showed that for the first time in US history, majority of democrats are supporting Palestine over Israel. What better way than another "baby massacre" to get them in line? Add to this the classic neocon gameplan from the early 2000s - taking out the "axis of evil" Most of it has already been dismantled. Now it is Iran's turn.

All in all, is it possible that Hamas did something so depraved? - I would hardly put it past them.
Similarly, is it possible that the neocon establishment is staging this as a pretext for another war against terror (GWOT II)? I would hardly put it past them either.

I think in today's world,they'd have some serious evidence of this, and surely Israel would have outed it by now. And if not, Hamas would have probably proudly distributed the video themselves!

[Cain Marko]

@Disha and the rest: Let me clarify. I seem to have given the wrong impression.

I DO NOT doubt the barbarity of Hamas types. That should be obvious by now. What I do doubt is the veracity of the claim - who is putting it out other than IDF and Western press and establishment? Like they don't have an angle in this? HOw many false claims have they made before? And, WHY THE HELL should I automatically believe them?

[Cain Marko]

1. Ridiculing/dissing religious icons that are shared by millions of patriotic Indians of a different religion is in bad taste. Period. I'm not sure what BRs official policy is on this but I have had similar spats with posters before and the mods have always, without exception given me no reason to believe that they condone such provocative and counter productive behavior. There ARE many Muslims who serve the country with pride and joy, I don't believe these will feel particularly welcome with such posts.

Cain Marko'ji, one needs to have a complete clarity of thought and call out the truth. However naked it is. And I do have friends, colleagues and ex-army personal and their kids from other religion. So yes, the social pressures of treading the line is immense.

First of all lets recognize what it truly is. It is Jihadi terrorism borne out of the fact that a particular section of a particular religion has weaponized religion to achieve their political goals with complete impunity and barbarity. And while doing so they also take down their own civilized sections, if it perceives that it comes in their way. And that religion is Islam.

If you do not think that is the truth, please give me counter examples where other religions, particularly of the non-book kind, in the last 1000 year spread on the back of a sword or a gun.

Second, some adherents of Islam do *not* condone Jihadi terrorism and are scared that the Jihadi terrorism will wipe out everyone. They do know that some of their forefathers have been converted on coercion. Is it that fear of complete wipe that leads them to condone Jihadi terrorism or they have a stronger moral compass. I have seen Md. Arif Khan and Rubika Liaqat. They have a stronger moral compass.

And the complete clarity of thought is this, Jihadi terrorism must be condemned in all its forms. All sane and democratically elected political leaders have said that "terrorism in all its form must be condemned and rooted out". I am saying "Jihadi terrorism in all its form must be condemned and rooted out". What's the difference? Calling out Jihad makes me wrong? Should I be ashamed in calling out Jihadi terrorism?

If you think that we should not call out Jihadi terrorism, then that is your personal thought. I do not think there is a point in you admonishing others and controlling what others say or not about Jihadi terrorism.

And Cain Marko'ji, when are you going to stand up for the oppressed? I did mention that I was ridiculed for my religion and beliefs. Isn't that Kafir-Phobia? Okay, if you do not want to stand up for me, fine. If I stand up for myself, why are you chopping my legs off? What's your fear?

2. The Hamas babies incident. All the press regarding this comes from the claims of the IDF. The usual Western press from fox newj to al guardian are happy to report it. Just like they did WMD in eyeraq and chemical weapons in Syria and Ukrainian victory vs Russia. I'm sure you can understand my skepticism.

Hamas itself, which is ever willing to show us videos of their "exploits" as is the won't of such scum, has actually denied this.

No, I do not understand your skepticism. You believe Hamas and not IDF, or is there a degree on your belief based on the barbarity? Do you have a scale of barbarity? If there is one, I would like to understand your scale of barbarity! Like a woman is gang-raped, stripped naked and murdered and her body defiled. Believable. 30 infants slaughtered. Not Believable. In fact you think IDF planted it as fake story to inflame passion! Isnt' that gas lighting?

Why is 30 infants slaughtered not believable? 59 people, mostly women and children were burnt alive in Godhra carnage. Believable or not? Kashmiri pandits were brutally raped and murdered? Believable or not? Lt. Saurabh Kalia and his men brutally tortured. Believable or not?

And all of the above because, Kafirs occupied the land of the Momeens? And were brutally subjugating Momeens? is it believable that the wars of 1947, 65, 71, 99 happened? Do you know the youngest victim of 26/11? No infants were murdered?

I think you should have listened to what the Israeli PM said publicly and on TV & also on his calls to the world leaders. Believe it or not, 30 infants were slaughtered. Execution style. And their bodies desecrated. The worst thing to to re-visit jews since holocaust. At least, anti-semitism is a crime. Anti-Hindi (or Anti-Kafir) is not a crime. It is a sport.

Obviously this is not to remotely suggest that these outfits are anything but scum. Point is that we have seen in the past that they are also often doing someone else's bidding. I believe there is some serious daal mein kaala stuff here. The shrill cries of war vs Iran only makes me more suspicious. A clearer picture needs to emerge.

Even if they are handmaidens to a grand conspiracy, going after infants and toddlers? Are they so crazed that even psychopaths look sane compared to them.

You do not have to believe in any conspiracy to call out the barbarity of Jihadi supporters and pseudo-liberals who do equal-equal or gaslighting anti-semitism, anti-hinduism and anti-Kafirism are worse perpetrators of jihadi terrorism.

What you have done Cain'ji, is an equivalent of holocaust denial. My only request for you is to re-examine your stand.

Sirji,
Please leave Sanatan Dharma out of this. The Abrahamics are sort of cut from the same cloth. You may find the Israeli-Western alliance as spotless, but I have reasons (which I can enumerate) to question that. And as an Indian, who really has no skin in the game, I have every right to.
And for God's sake Dishaji, please read my posts without so much emotion and try to understand what I am saying. Again, I am not trying to deny the capacity for barbarity in these outfits. I am just not sure that this particular one is actually true.

[Cain Marko]

1. Ridiculing/dissing religious icons that are shared by millions of patriotic Indians of a different religion is in bad taste. Period. I'm not sure what BRs official policy is on this but I have had similar spats with posters before and the mods have always, without exception given me no reason to believe that they condone such provocative and counter productive behavior. There ARE many Muslims who serve the country with pride and joy, I don't believe these will feel particularly welcome with such posts.

Cain Marko'ji, one needs to have a complete clarity of thought and call out the truth. However naked it is. And I do have friends, colleagues and ex-army personal and their kids from other religion. So yes, the social pressures of treading the line is immense.

First of all lets recognize what it truly is. It is Jihadi terrorism borne out of the fact that a particular section of a particular religion has weaponized religion to achieve their political goals with complete impunity and barbarity. And while doing so they also take down their own civilized sections, if it perceives that it comes in their way. And that religion is Islam.

If you do not think that is the truth, please give me counter examples where other religions, particularly of the non-book kind, in the last 1000 year spread on the back of a sword or a gun.

Second, some adherents of Islam do *not* condone Jihadi terrorism and are scared that the Jihadi terrorism will wipe out everyone. They do know that some of their forefathers have been converted on coercion. Is it that fear of complete wipe that leads them to condone Jihadi terrorism or they have a stronger moral compass. I have seen Md. Arif Khan and Rubika Liaqat. They have a stronger moral compass.

And the complete clarity of thought is this, Jihadi terrorism must be condemned in all its forms. All sane and democratically elected political leaders have said that "terrorism in all its form must be condemned and rooted out". I am saying "Jihadi terrorism in all its form must be condemned and rooted out". What's the difference? Calling out Jihad makes me wrong? Should I be ashamed in calling out Jihadi terrorism?

If you think that we should not call out Jihadi terrorism, then that is your personal thought. I do not think there is a point in you admonishing others and controlling what others say or not about Jihadi terrorism.

And Cain Marko'ji, when are you going to stand up for the oppressed? I did mention that I was ridiculed for my religion and beliefs. Isn't that Kafir-Phobia? Okay, if you do not want to stand up for me, fine. If I stand up for myself, why are you chopping my legs off? What's your fear?

Dear Dishaji,
I again request you not to take anything I say personally (as I try to do the same). But I have to respond to the above:
1. Who is against calling out Jihadi terror? Not me assuredly. Read my response to Roop (to which you took umbrage) carefully. I stood against dissing the the icon of a religion dear to millions in India as someone who "mandates" the beheading of children. How is that legit?
2. As far as being ridiculed for my religion, ha. Sir, I have been at the receiving end of such ridicule all my life - and from every religion you can imagine. I choose not to allow this to color my viewpoint towards what is good in each of them. That's my prerogative. Others will have their own way of dealing with it.
One thing I will say though - just an observation, pissing on others religions/belief systems doesn't help and has some decidedly unwelcome repercussions.

[Pratyush]

Guys,

While it's all good to believe that an Enemies, enemy is still my Enemy.

The current situation is requires flexibility to think about selective friendship.

[Cain Marko]

Why the Taliban, now even Hamas is denying that they beheaded babies or molested women.

Here is a quote from.President Biden.
He has seen the images.

https://twitter.com/therealmrbench/stat ... z41Jw&s=19

A note Ramanaji: There is a clarification from the WH about this. Biden has not seen anything, he was simply referring to Israeli reports.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... rcna119865

[Manish_P]

...
Sirji,
Please leave Sanatan Dharma out of this. The Abrahamics are sort of cut from the same cloth. You may find the Israeli-Western alliance as spotless, but I have reasons (which I can enumerate) to question that. And as an Indian, who really has no skin in the game, I have every right to.
...

Sir, for sanatanis the whole world is one family (one home), so what affects one will affect you.... for the Abrahamics the world is one playground, which they have divided into teams. They are coached in having to play to win. They insist on setting the rules. There are no spectators.

[Kati]

Meanwhile Times of Israel reports that 70% of the tomato crop will go unharvested (due to labor shortage) . . .

[Cain Marko]

Guys,

While it's all good to believe that an Enemies, enemy is still my Enemy.

The current situation is requires flexibility to think about selective friendship.

Sir, for sanatanis the whole world is one family (one home), so what affects one will affect you.... for the Abrahamics the world is one playground, which they have divided into teams. They are coached in having to play to win. They insist on setting the rules. There are no spectators.

I am not sure if Pratyush saar's post was meant for me, but I'll just add my thought to this:
I have no issues with geopolitical interest and great games. If India allies with I2U2, IMEC, BRICS, QUAD and what not, I am all good if interests are served. But I don't see this particular conflict of much concern to desh. And, while Modi has done the right thing by issuing that statement expressing India's sympathy for Israel, it doesn't mean that India is going to send boots on the ground to Gaza.

The last thing India (or anyone) would want is US boots on the ground in Iran. And there are already shrill cries for exactly such a war. That is where "world family" will be really in trouble Manishji. And my skepticism about the egregious beheading thing stems from that concern. Imagine if this is another attempt at "manufacturing consent" and it actually works like those famous vials of WMD. Noone was benefitted from the first GWOT, least of all India. I doubt GWOT II will have any benefits either.

[Manish_P]

...
The last thing India (or anyone) would want is US boots on the ground in Iran. And there are already shrill cries for exactly such a war. That is where "world family" will be really in trouble Manishji. And my skepticism about the egregious beheading thing stems from that concern. Imagine if this is another attempt at "manufacturing consent" and it actually works like those famous vials of WMD. Noone was benefitted from the first GWOT, least of all India. I doubt GWOT II will have any benefits either.

Cain Marko ji, pls. don't misunderstand my post as being about the beheading claims. It was very specific to your point about us (India and Indians) 'not having any skin in the game'.

Like it or not, we ARE a player in the Game. Always have been. Over centuries. To give ourselves a false sense of security most of us have thought (or rather have been conditioned into thinking) of ourselves are being mere 'spectators'. That we are sitting on some boundary lines watching the game. If we really look about we will find that we are on the same field. Only our match timings were different. Some day in the future, we might well be on center court, again.

And the thing about spectators is that no-one really cares about them anyway. Everyone just wants their money.

Coming to the specific thread topic, we need to see how we can use this to our advantage. Be it internally (weeding out the jihadists & their supporters) and externally (including the khalistanis and their supporters).

[Vayutuvan]

It is the perception of paper tiger that matters. It is the one up man ship in blood that, as a perceptive Canadian woman said, is the culture.

It is as distressing for Israel as was Mumbai 2008 for India. Fewer than 200 killed in Bombay but the statement was made and India humiliated.

Hakim Saab, you are going off the rails, if I may say so.

[Vayutuvan]

Excellent step by Mudi when he has been awarded highest honour by Palestine, not easy.

Palestine is not hamas.

[SRajesh]

CMji
here's a bit of Jewish Tradition:
The principle of kevod ha-meit [treating the dead with honor] underlies several other important issues with regard to the disposition of the body.
In general, Jewish tradition forbids autopsies on the grounds that the body is sacred and should not be violated after death.
“The dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.” According to some authorities, cremation is absolutely forbidden, so much so that no funeral rites are offered and the survivors are not allowed to observe any of the rites of mourning, including the recitation of the Kaddish.
Now to IDF
The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) invited foreign journalists to see the aftermath of a massacre by Hamas militants at the kibbutz on Tuesday.
Agreed that there is no third party confirmation that I can provide except for Soldiers reporting
Looking at the Abrahamics, all having been cut from the same jib, dont you think that its plausible this attitude of defiling of the body is a deliberate attempt to inflict more pain??