Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 14 Sep 2023 19:04

Genuine question: if this is a ARM missile that homes in on radiators like antennae, which radiators are inside bunkers?

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 14 Sep 2023 20:10

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑14 Sep 2023 10:55 To paraphrase the famous MajorlyProfound: Helina clears trials every month. Some months, it clears trials twice!

the comments on the YouTube are funny., one has mentioned seeing "helina trials" mentioned since he was a child , he is now married

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Sep 2023 23:02

Tanaji wrote: ↑14 Sep 2023 19:04 Genuine question: if this is a ARM missile that homes in on radiators like antennae, which radiators are inside bunkers?

You can have two different variants of the same missile. One an ARM and the other a bunker busting or standard air-to-surface variant with a different warhead and seeker.

mody · Post by **mody** » 16 Sep 2023 12:50

Tanaji wrote: ↑14 Sep 2023 19:04 Genuine question: if this is a ARM missile that homes in on radiators like antennae, which radiators are inside bunkers?

As per Wiki, the ARM version will have INS, SatNav + passive radar homing guidance with terminal IIR seeker.
The ground attack version will have INS, SatNav and terminal IIR seeker.

The NGARM has a passive radar homing seeker with MMW seeker for terminal targeting.
The use of IIR seeker for terminal targeting for an ARM missile is interesting. Mostly this would be for large long range early warning or over the horizon type static radars. Hence a long range of 300Kms. The Pakis have a Lockheed Martin supplied long range radar. Such radars would have a reasonable thermal signature.

mody · Post by **mody** » 16 Sep 2023 12:52

DAC has approved the purchase of 200 nos of Dhruvastra missiles for the Prachand helicopters. Finally after endless trials, some light at the end of the tunnel.
Hopefully the numbers will increase, after this initial order, as the number of attack helicopters in service also increase.

mody · Post by **mody** » 16 Sep 2023 13:00

A Helina version for use with UAVs is also urgently required. Hopefully work would be ON for the same. Does the Archer UAV carry the HELINA missiles? It is supposed to carry 2 air to ground missiles, though not sure which ones?

By the way the news about the DAC sanction gives the max range of the Helina/Dhruvastra as 8kms.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 16 Sep 2023 17:20

About time! IA & IAF have been inducting the Rudra since 2017 and the Chiefs have been saying that they will fast-track Helina/Dhruvastra ever since. Now an AoN is issued at last!

Btw, the DAC gave the AoN for Helina in Jan 2023. I have not seen an order/contract yet

And what's with the piecemeal approval, as always? We have ~100 Rudras in operation. An order of 200 will not even arm our existing fleet, let alone additional Rudra or Prachand orders (that are in the offing).

So, while we are no doubt happy to see this news, hopefully we will see actual orders soon, to really celebrate

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Sep 2023 18:44

mody wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023 13:00By the way the news about the DAC sanction gives the max range of the Helina/Dhruvastra as 8kms.

Isn't that consistent with what we already know?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Sep 2023 20:07

Prem, The order for 200 could be to setup the production line.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 16 Sep 2023 20:50

That is how it always works, small ordertoremoves kinks from prod process and supply chain. After that you will never hear the production except for odd news here and there. My take, they produce in high numbers

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 17 Sep 2023 22:42

Ramana Ji: I sincerely hope so. But these small batch sizes, not translating to larger orders down the line, have been a recurring feature.

Do you recall the Astra Mk1 order placed in June 2022? Exact #s are not known, but it was for roughly 200+. There has not been a follow-up order. The original one was to be delivered over 6 years! I suspect that this will be the only order and the IAF will point to Astra-Mk2 and say they want to order that in large numbers

We have good counter-examplles: Akash and Pinaka, where there have been sizeable follow-on orders.

If this is for Production line stabilization, I hope its an order to be executed in a year, rather than over 6 years like in the Astra-Mk1 case

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 17 Sep 2023 22:45

On a different note, DAC just approved 1 regiment of Pralay for the IA. In Dec 2022, they approved 120 missiles for the IAF. Hope those inductions are happening.

Earlier reports (in April) said that the MoD will fast-track the approval of 2 units for the IA - for 250 missiles. I guess this is that.

Piecing info together: 1 regiment = 2 units = 250 missiles, per IA terminology. Since IAF also ordered 120, we can call that 1 unit as well

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... s?from=mdr

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 28 Sep 2023 16:41

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/india-l ... sues-notam

India Likely To Test A New Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile, Complimenting BrahMos; Issues NOTAM

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 28 Sep 2023 17:04

Long range missile tests had dried up( above 3K ). May be we matured the LR missile technology and just mass producing. Or, we are signaling our peaceful intention till the elections?.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 28 Sep 2023 17:39

This may be Agni-1P derived AshBM of the DF-21 variety

NOTAM is for 2000 Km. So, unlike the reports which say 500 Kms (which is only 50 Km longer range than Brahmos), this might be a 1000 Km range missile

Which reminds me: what happened to SMART? Its a game-changing weapon. Hope they are not asking for refinements and start to induct it right away. Haven't even seen follow-on tests. This can be a shore-based missile, which when stationed in Andaman & Nicobar, can be a serious area-denial weapon. The ship-based, canisterized version can come later

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Sep 2023 18:31

This is going to be a 1500 km range weapon.

The 1st test is only for 500 kms.

It's claimed to be a quasi ballestic missile, that can be deployed on ships. A ballestic missile of that range is going to substantially larger than Brahmos.

It will require structural modification in the ship for deployment.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Sep 2023 18:32

What is the program status of the HSTDV?

Has it met all it's development goals?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Sep 2023 22:23

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1707 ... 73303?s=20 ---> Surya/VEDA/Agni-VI.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Sep 2023 23:39

S-400 Competitor India’s Homegrown LRSAM Which Can Tip The Balance of Power In The Region
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/09/s-40 ... he-region/
28 Sept 2023

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 29 Sep 2023 08:40

Rakesh wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023 22:23 https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1707 ... 73303?s=20 ---> Surya/VEDA/Agni-VI.

Why are all the people without shoes? Is it a shrine near by?

ha ha,Sure, some one from my generation is watching over the missile mockup room entrance there.

It reminds me of my School Computer lab. Rituals are

1) Remove shoes and socks before entering the lab.
2) a towel in the entrance to clean any dust in hands.
3) wait for the command to start the CPU(if anyone switched on monitor before CPU, he will be hanged with words)
4) a little bit of enthusiastic typing speed with evoke(Lab Tech: did your father owns that machine - My mind : My father had not even seen any machine

)
5) A command from lab in charge to NOT play with screen savers.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 29 Sep 2023 15:29

RajaRudra wrote: ↑29 Sep 2023 08:40
Rakesh wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023 22:23 https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1707 ... 73303?s=20 ---> Surya/VEDA/Agni-VI.

Why are all the people without shoes? Is it a shrine near by?
ha ha,Sure, some one from my generation is watching over the missile mockup room entrance there.

It reminds me of my School Computer lab. Rituals are

1) Remove shoes and socks before entering the lab.
2) a towel in the entrance to clean any dust in hands.
3) wait for the command to start the CPU(if anyone switched on monitor before CPU, he will be hanged with words)
4) a little bit of enthusiastic typing speed with evoke(Lab Tech: did your father owns that machine - My mind : My father had not even seen any machine )
5) A command from lab in charge to NOT play with screen savers.

In IITB, it was the Hawai chappal which you had to take in a bag with you otherwise it wouldn't last a minute.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 29 Sep 2023 16:11

Ah, the days when in IITM CC stood for Chappal Chor.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 29 Sep 2023 19:02

RajaRudra wrote: ↑29 Sep 2023 08:40...

JTull wrote: ↑29 Sep 2023 15:29......

I am not sure who made that comment in my post about shrines and shoes, but it was not me.

titash · Post by **titash** » 29 Sep 2023 22:11

JTull wrote: ↑29 Sep 2023 15:29
RajaRudra wrote: ↑29 Sep 2023 08:40

ha ha,Sure, some one from my generation is watching over the missile mockup room entrance there.

It reminds me of my School Computer lab. Rituals are

1) Remove shoes and socks before entering the lab.
2) a towel in the entrance to clean any dust in hands.
3) wait for the command to start the CPU(if anyone switched on monitor before CPU, he will be hanged with words)
4) a little bit of enthusiastic typing speed with evoke(Lab Tech: did your father owns that machine - My mind : My father had not even seen any machine )
5) A command from lab in charge to NOT play with screen savers.
In IITB, it was the Hawai chappal which you had to take in a bag with you otherwise it wouldn't last a minute.

For a while I'd solved that problem by placing the slippers in separate places - left hawai in the shoe area + right hawai under one of those plastic bucket chairs. But people caught on...alas. Went back to plastic bags.

maitya · Post by **maitya** » 30 Sep 2023 09:34

titash wrote: ↑29 Sep 2023 22:11
JTull wrote: ↑29 Sep 2023 15:29

In IITB, it was the Hawai chappal which you had to take in a bag with you otherwise it wouldn't last a minute.
For a while I'd solved that problem by placing the slippers in separate places - left hawai in the shoe area + right hawai under one of those plastic bucket chairs. But people caught on...alas. Went back to plastic bags.

After a while, it didn't really matter, as the pair being worn were from 2 different original pairs anyway ...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Oct 2023 18:53

https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1709 ... 80683?s=20 ---> Great news. The Defence Ministry recently cleared the Project Kusha of the IAF. IAF is going to get 5 units of the Long Range Surface to Air Missile (Desi S-400). The Project Kusha has been given approval for worth around Rs 21,700 crores.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 04 Oct 2023 19:14

How is Project Kusha different from LRSAM or anti-ballistic missile systems?

Media reports already include 21k crore price tag, so this must be an existing system or just a minor variation. Which is it?

konaseema · Post by **konaseema** » 05 Oct 2023 04:25

DRDO was working on ER-SAM & XR-SAM which had up to 250 kms range. This should be a new missile which is of the S-400 category.

mody · Post by **mody** » 05 Oct 2023 15:21

konaseema wrote: ↑05 Oct 2023 04:25 DRDO was working on ER-SAM & XR-SAM which had up to 250 kms range. This should be a new missile which is of the S-400 category.

ER-SAM was supposed to have a range of 150Kms and XR-SAM range upto 350Kms. Project Kusha seems to a formalization of the same projects.
Now, mostly like the S-400 system, multiple missiles will be part of the same system. Perhaps there will also be multiple radars.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 05 Oct 2023 19:22

Swordfish L-band radar Long Range Tracking Radar (LRTR)
https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/worl ... rdfish.htm

early warning., India would have by now, moved on to the "super swordfish" AESA radar

"The Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) Super-Swordfish radar was first unveiled in 2012, it was stated to be twice as powerful as older swordfish radar. The new radar has a range of over 1500km, facilitating early detection of inbound threats. if reports are to be believed, Super-Swordfish is already operational."

Induction of two new Units for Very Long Range Tracking Radar (VLRTR) systems were accorded by Government of India under MoU between NTRO and IAF for realizing Missile Monitoring System for detection of space borne threats in aid of Ballistic Missile Defence. Accordingly, first VLRTR Unit was raised in 2017 and the system is operational. The VLRTR project likely refers to Super GreenPines imported specifically for the NTRO.

Valid reason to think these radars can provide targetting data to the XR SAM and the project Kusha missiles., just like the baseline Greenpine works with patriot batteries.

in the western sector this means the radar can track everything [and beyond] the paki airspace and the missiles can reach interdict any plane or ballistic missile anywhere in the paki airspace itself without the IAF lifting a finger.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 05 Oct 2023 20:17

Kusha LRSAM project
Two missiles to be developed under the project. ERSAM and XRSAM
https://idrw.org/project-kusha-indias-g ... own-s-400/

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 06 Oct 2023 14:29

DRDO today successfully conducted the maiden test of the new Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRAShM) from Abdul Kalam Island off the coast of Odisha
https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1710216484339986883?s=20

NOTAM was for 2000KMS
https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/170963 ... 67172?s=20

mody · Post by **mody** » 09 Oct 2023 18:02

Any videos of the LAShM missile test?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 09 Oct 2023 21:29

No official news. Some handles tweeted about it

disha · Post by **disha** » 11 Oct 2023 23:46

i thought posters on this thread will be doing lungi dance or dhoti shivering etc.

So here you go, this is cheeni-patloon shivering news:

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/watch-a ... -bull-eyes

Indian defence forces, including the Indian Air Force, carried out four trials of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles in the last two days. The extended-range missiles hit their targets successfully with precision: Defence officials

^Wait, the ANI news flashed their umm.. news and vanished. So here are some details (and no video but just some old stock fotos)

In a significant display of firepower, India conducted test of four BrahMos-ER extended-range supersonic cruise missiles in under two days.

According to ANI, today's tests were carried out by the Indian Air Force (IAF) from the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

In a post on the social media platform X (formerly Twitter), the IAF stated that these missiles successfully hit their targets and achieved all mission objectives.

Bull's Eye !

The #IAF recently carried out a successful test of its Surface to Surface version of the #Brahmos Missile near the Eastern Seaboard archipelago.

The missile fire was successful and the mission achieved all its objectives.#AtmanirbharBharat@BrahMosMissile pic.twitter.com/YOHi5IKr1I

— Indian Air Force (@IAF_MCC) October 11, 2023
"The IAF recently conducted a successful test of its Surface to Surface version of the Brahmos Missile near the Eastern Seaboard archipelago. The missile firing was successful, and the mission achieved all its objectives," the post stated.

Yesterday (10 October), the Indian Army conducted another successful set of trials of the BrahMos-ER missile, meeting all test objectives.

#BrahMos Msl Regiment of #IndianArmy carried out successful launch of extended range BrahMos supersonic cruise missile striking target with pinpoint accuracy in the Andaman & Nicobar Islands.Event was witnessed by Hon'ble Lt Governor & GOC-in-C @IaSouthern#OnPathToTransformation pic.twitter.com/LoVQvCRt25

— Southern Command INDIAN ARMY (@IaSouthern) October 10, 2023
The extended-range variant, BrahMos-ER, can strike land and sea targets at a maximum range of 400 to 500 kilometers.

These tests were conducted as part of the pre-induction trials of the supersonic missile.

Following the successful conclusion of the trials, an Indian Army officer stated, "The missile has not yet been inducted, and the Indian Army will consider its induction based on the outcomes of the test."

[The missile is expected to undergo further trials before its formal induction into the armed forces.

[Personal Note: I think the missile is inducted, its just that its formal naamkaran (naming ceremony) has not been carried out yet]

The BrahMos missile, first tested in June 2001...Since then, the missile has undergone iterative developments, enabling it to strike targets at ranges of more than 500 kilometers (so that it can cause brown pant syndrome in appropriate quarters)....

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 12 Oct 2023 07:35

Great going!

If induction of these missiles is a separate affair, then the increase in range is not just a "software upgrade" as was commonly thought. If that were to be the case, then all existing inventory can be software-upgraded in batches

Also, the LRAShM test either happened & kept hush-hush or yet to be conducted. This was presumed to be the Agni-1P variant that would be our DF-21 equivalent. Brahmos-ER does not need a 1500 Km NOTAM

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Oct 2023 09:59

I think that the initial increase in range from 250 Kms to 450 Kms was probably a s/w activation.

But, other range extensions have probably been done through optimizations to ramjet engine's performance or the use of composites.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 12 Oct 2023 10:06

Guys,

If the IAF has tested the missile. Doesn't that mean, that an in-service missile was tested?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 12 Oct 2023 13:22

BrahMos is the new Prithvi, I think.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Oct 2023 18:54

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1522852 ... 87968?s=20 --->

Just to add to this, the max production capacity of Akash was *at least* 240/year, way back in 2017.

By 2018, > 1,000 Akash missiles had been produced. (pic 1)

> 2,000 by now shouldn't be a surprise, this rate is good enough. Now focus should be sharply on securing exports.