Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Oct 2023 05:13

Interesting that the GoI is taking a page from nations like SA, UAE, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. A government controlling the clergy.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Oct 2023 05:42

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 15 Oct 2023 05:47

My personal views are similar to Neelaji,s regarding Israel and jews but I do understand chetakji,s arguments and Govt of India,s position in this conflict. And I will support govt of India,s policies as these are in India,s best interest and looking at our past and present geopolitics is the right approach.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Oct 2023 08:44

Amber G. wrote: ↑14 Oct 2023 20:35 Now from Yale Daily News: !!!
Petition to oust pro-Palestine professor for ‘promoting lies and violence’ gains 25,000 signatures in just over a day
A Tuesday petition calling for Yale to fire professor Zareena Grewal has amassed over 25,000 signatures.

The petition, titled “Remove Zareena Grewal from the Yale Faculty for Promoting LIES and VIOLENCE,” cites a series of tweets by Grewal about the war in Israel and Gaza. At the top of the petition is a screenshot of a tweet that Grewal posted the morning of Saturday, Oct. 7, following militant group Hamas’s surprise attack on Israel and subsequent retaliatory airstrikes on Gaza.
--- Some tidbit: Interestingly the prof who made the post is a Pakistani Punjabi whose country fitting zia up haq time acted as mercenaries to Jordon to murder atleast 5000 Palestinians.

Grewal — a professor of American Studies, of Ethnicity, Race, and Migration and of Religious Studies Her account on X is now private From what I know she is a tenured professor (which means per Yale's policy, she can't be fired without a direct cause.)

Amber ji

please read that figure as >20,000 palestinians

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 15 Oct 2023 09:18

^^^ Thanks for correction..
Meanwhile: Operation Ajay update!

4th flight with 274 passengers onboard touches down in New Delhi.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 15 Oct 2023 10:00

chetak wrote: ↑14 Oct 2023 13:53

Neela ji,

plizz don't do equal equal now. godra was the past, gaza is the here and now present

Times, circumstances, situations, and geopolitics have all changed, with updated alliances and evolved threats that have foregrounded today, not to forget the growing economy and the risks to it.

No one knew Modi before godra, but today the same Modi is a globally known figure and the one with the best and highest approval ratings in the world. His opinion, when stated, often makes headlines

israelis are undoubtedly cut from the same abrahamic cloth but for us in India there is one vital difference. They do not hate Hindus as part of their national or religious outlook, they do not proselytize and their people do not preach to us about their superiority, moral or otherwise

We feed off each other for different reasons. Our reasons are mostly tangible and their reasons are mostly intangible, making for a happy collaboration on a host of issues, and business wise they do drive a hard bargain, as indeed does India.

Their help in the past has been unstinted and very generous. Often offered even before a request has been made. We cannot forget and the time for repayment is now

That said, we have gained enormous goodwill in supporting them, and they are not a people to forget nor not appreciate our strategic stance.

and finally, on the threats that they face, only they understand the true dimensions of it.. and it is pointless for anyone to opine on their solutions because their situation is truly unique...and that threat is existential, and manifests in every single breath that their many enemies draw...

Hence the need to cut them some slack

Chetak-ji
Found this

https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/isr ... 2017-07-05
Israel helped India when both the countries did not even have diplomatic ties. India had voted against Israel's creation in 1948. But even when Israel was facing an arms shortage, the former PM Golda Meir decided to divert arms meant for Iran to India during the 1971 war. She even sent a note addressed to then PM Indira Gandhi asking for diplomatic ties in return for arms, a book by scholar Srinath Raghavan revealed.

This is quite generous . I had always assumed that Israel will fold under American pressure when it comes to India. After all, it is fully backed by American dollars and without it, it would collapse financially and territorially.
Fair enough.
And I do think we need allies like UAE and the Saudis in the middle east. And to think of it, it does seem like ancient history repeating itself. Knowledge from India went West and the ME was the conduit. The same is happening with IMEC for different purposes.
The only problem is that we need to attach a high value for the stake holders. You never know when the second son of the third wife of the Emir or the Prince does a coup and takes over the kingdom. I dont doubt even for one minute that the Chinese are cultivating their regal assets in the kingdoms. They've done it in Maldives already.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 15 Oct 2023 10:06

NRao wrote: ↑15 Oct 2023 05:13 Interesting that the GoI is taking a page from nations like SA, UAE, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. A government controlling the clergy.

GOI always had some control over the clergy, Secular parties egged the clergy and some castes riled up together 35% of the population on thier side, if 25% of the population is indifferent and do not vote, that means they get 35/75=47% of the voting % leading to election victories. When a person votes for soo called secular parties they vote for thier at bet being in poverty or at worst being beheaded or blown up. But as a society we vote for short term gains and loong term pain.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 15 Oct 2023 10:16

Palestinian Natalie Portman has suddenly discovered war is unpleasant:

That's why it's not good to hang around those who start them.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 15 Oct 2023 14:54

I want to point out how Al-Jizya is referring to the terror attack as the "Hamas Military Operation" -- WTF??

Please listen in @ 0:25 -- that is a new low for them

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 15 Oct 2023 16:35

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 15 Oct 2023 17:07

www.rediff.com/news/report/hamas-not-le ... 231015.htm
Hamas not letting civilians flee Gaza: Israeli troops
Utkarsh Mishra, October 15, 2023
The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) on Sunday alleged that the terror group Hamas is blocking the evacuation of civilians in the Gaza Strip ahead of the possible ground offensive by Israel after the deadly attacks on October 7.
It further stated that multiple rockets were fired at Tel Aviv and southern Israel during Saturday night and IDF continues to target Hamas military targets.
Taking to X (formerly Twitter), IDF posted, 'Hamas is blocking the evacuation of civilians.'
.......
"Hamas has issued warnings to their civilians not to evacuate and when people did not listen, they have actually stopped the civilians, and the convoy of civilians who were trying to flee from the situation and listening to our warnings, knowing that they are much better of the south of Gaza than staying in the northern part," he added.
Meanwhile, the Israeli soldiers, along with tanks and munitions were deployed near the Gaza border on Saturday as they prepare for a full ground offensive against Hamas.
......
Gautam
(Still in Kolkata, West Bangladesh)
Also see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKn9ThjujDo
IDF Wants Gaza Emptied But Hamas Against Evacuations, Blinken-MBS Meet, Israel Bombs Syria Airport

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 15 Oct 2023 23:37

williams · Post by **williams** » 16 Oct 2023 00:02

g.sarkar wrote: ↑15 Oct 2023 17:07 www.rediff.com/news/report/hamas-not-le ... 231015.htm
Hamas not letting civilians flee Gaza: Israeli troops
Utkarsh Mishra, October 15, 2023
The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) on Sunday alleged that the terror group Hamas is blocking the evacuation of civilians in the Gaza Strip ahead of the possible ground offensive by Israel after the deadly attacks on October 7.
It further stated that multiple rockets were fired at Tel Aviv and southern Israel during Saturday night and IDF continues to target Hamas military targets.
Taking to X (formerly Twitter), IDF posted, 'Hamas is blocking the evacuation of civilians.'
.......
"Hamas has issued warnings to their civilians not to evacuate and when people did not listen, they have actually stopped the civilians, and the convoy of civilians who were trying to flee from the situation and listening to our warnings, knowing that they are much better of the south of Gaza than staying in the northern part," he added.
Meanwhile, the Israeli soldiers, along with tanks and munitions were deployed near the Gaza border on Saturday as they prepare for a full ground offensive against Hamas.
......
Gautam
(Still in Kolkata, West Bangladesh)
Also see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKn9ThjujDo
IDF Wants Gaza Emptied But Hamas Against Evacuations, Blinken-MBS Meet, Israel Bombs Syria Airport

I think Israel is posturing to narrow down and locate the hostages. Hence Hamas is against evacuation.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 16 Oct 2023 00:11

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Oct 2023 00:13

Nothing much happening
No ground attacks
Israel has extended the deadline for civilians to leave
Water turned back on in southern Gaza
Probably electricity will be back on???
Is this a stand still
Who’s going to blink first
If Israel blinks first will this a watershed moment in its 70 odd years of a free state
Will they end up negotiating from a weaker position and more so in coming years

bala · Post by **bala** » 16 Oct 2023 00:27

Is Israel Gaza conflict because of Islam - ex muslim Sahil explains mentality of muslims. The mentality of destruction of the non believers is engraved in their belief system. Islam positively commands its adherents to impose its religious law on all peoples, believers and unbelievers alike, whenever possible and by any means necessary. Islam allows to propagate abuses, such as the mistreatment of women and homosexuals, and slavery. Islam is a tribal religion, it was born with the concept of Arabian tribes.

Up until Saudi standardized the Quran, there were 30 odd versions, each tribe had their own interpretation of Quran. The initial Quran was a slim version and was in Aramic language not Arabic. There are two different dialects used, one around Jordan, Syria and the other a version in Yemen. Another thing that Islamic historians have noted is that PBUH Prophet tales are an amalgamation of many tales of various folks. The initial qibla (direction of prayer) of mosques pointed to Petra instead of Mecca. There was a concerted effort to make things within Saudi for Islam.

SivaR · Post by **SivaR** » 16 Oct 2023 01:47

SRajesh wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 00:13 Nothing much happening

Israel's intention is not to block these basic utilities, but at this point, they don't have much cards to play. This is one of the negotiation card to release the hostages. They are not in hurry to attack, once the hostages are released they will intensify the fight. Till then, putting pressure is the only option. There seems some of the hostages are released or Hama's vacated an area and Israelis got back some of their people.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 16 Oct 2023 02:02

bala wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 00:27 Is Israel Gaza conflict because of Islam - ex muslim Sahil explains mentality of muslims. The mentality of destruction of the non believers is engraved in their belief system. Islam positively commands its adherents to impose its religious law on all peoples, believers and unbelievers alike, whenever possible and by any means necessary. Islam allows to propagate abuses, such as the mistreatment of women and homosexuals, and slavery. Islam is a tribal religion, it was born with the concept of Arabian tribes.

Up until Saudi standardized the Quran, there were 30 odd versions, each tribe had their own interpretation of Quran. The initial Quran was a slim version and was in Aramic language not Arabic. There are two different dialects used, one around Jordan, Syria and the other a version in Yemen. Another thing that Islamic historians have noted is that PBUH Prophet tales are an amalgamation of many tales of various folks. The initial qibla (direction of prayer) of mosques pointed to Petra instead of Mecca. There was a concerted effort to make things within Saudi for Islam.

There's a lot of misinformation in this. So don't base your worldview solely on this man's perspective. It's an opinion no more. For ex. First qibla was never Petra but Jerusalem.
Having said that, there could be some truth regarding the Syriac connection to Quranic verse. The influence of Syriac Christians on the Prophet himself cannot be ignored. For example, one of the early personalities according to Sirat traditions, to give legitimacy to the Prophetic mission was a Christian monk called Waraqa. This is further supported by the story of the famous mystic Sahabi, Salman the Persian.

Anyways, this might be overtime in this thread. Perhaps we should start one that discusses such matters

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 16 Oct 2023 02:06

SivaR wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 01:47
SRajesh wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 00:13 Nothing much happening
Israel's intention is not to block these basic utilities, but at this point, they don't have much cards to play. This is one of the negotiation card to release the hostages. They are not in hurry to attack, once the hostages are released they will intensify the fight. Till then, putting pressure is the only option. There seems some of the hostages are released or Hama's vacated an area and Israelis got back some of their people.

They need to be able to find another outside pressure point that they can squeeze. Going into Gaza will take a massive toll. Who is Hamas maibaap?
I think going for qatar and jaljeera is tiny step in one direction, others need to be explored.
They have to empower (with weapons) folks in Gaza and Palestine who are willing and unhappy with Hamas. Do what Putin did in chechnya.
There are always Kadirov types who you can make your lap dog. Let the blood be on their hands.
If Israel can empower hummus, why not anti hummus?

bala · Post by **bala** » 16 Oct 2023 02:24

Cain Marko wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 02:02 For ex. First qibla was never Petra but Jerusalem.

Cain ji, I am interested in definite proof that first Qibla was Jerusalem (Easwar-alayam). The Al Masjid Al Aqsa was a story concocted after 200 yrs of PBUH prophet death (in the 800s) that PBUH ascended to Allah from Jerusalem. However there are historic mosques prior to this time which shows qibla pointing towards Petra in Jordan. PBUH prophet is said to belong to this region. I am interested in historical proof for such an assertion.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Oct 2023 02:50

I thought that the Umayyad’s unified all versions of Quran
The story is all existing copies from the mosques all around Arabia were requisitioned and burned
The official version was then released hence the difference in Arabic language in the Quran to what was spoken during PUBH time
The reason is whoever controlled the narrative controlled the unwashed
The second episode of theocratic control was during Abbasids when the Hadiths were codified by S Bhukhari (non Arabic) who wrote about companions views some 200-300 yrs after PBUH death having never visited KSA
Now every Islamic jurisprudence based on that text
Crazy isn’t it
Apparently there’s a version of Quran written on animal skin still preserved in one of western Saharan mosques but no one wants to check it nor allowed to just the Xtian and the King James Version noo

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Oct 2023 03:43

And, here we go.

Iran warns Israel through UN against ground offensive in Gaza

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 16 Oct 2023 03:48

bala wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 02:24
Cain Marko wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 02:02 For ex. First qibla was never Petra but Jerusalem.
Cain ji, I am interested in definite proof that first Qibla was Jerusalem (Easwar-alayam). The Al Masjid Al Aqsa was a story concocted after 200 yrs of PBUH prophet death (in the 800s) that PBUH ascended to Allah from Jerusalem. However there are historic mosques prior to this time which shows qibla pointing towards Petra in Jordan. PBUH prophet is said to belong to this region. I am interested in historical proof for such an assertion.

In ibn Ishaqs bio it is quite clear on the qibla being Jerusalem. Iirc this was before the Miraj... Ascension. Afaik that's the only historical record. Do you have any sources about qibla being towards Petra? Quite fascinating

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 16 Oct 2023 03:52

SRajesh wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 02:50 Apparently there’s a version of Quran written on animal skin still preserved in one of western Saharan mosques but no one wants to check it nor allowed to just the Xtian and the King James Version noo

Any source that I can explore? What I find very very interesting is that in both the Quran and the Old Testament, idol worship bashing is almost non existent in the early revelations.
In Genesis for example, you'll find nothing negative about idolatry. The only reference to it is an episode related to Jacob's escape from his father in law, and it too is not necessarily negative. In fact the episode can be understood to suggest that keeping idols was traditional practice in the Jewish homes.
My take is that the virulence vs idolatry only begins after the Jewish enslavement under the Egyptian pharaohs. Sort of a response to the trauma of that episode!

bala · Post by **bala** » 16 Oct 2023 04:06

Cain Marko wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 03:48 Do you have any sources about qibla being towards Petra? Quite fascinating

Don't want to de-rail this thread on topics like qibla but here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGH_5d6ltmE . Note that Petra as it is known today may have had another name in ancient times. Petra was a thriving booming metropolis during the birth of Islam, a beacon of wealth, trade, and culture.

williams · Post by **williams** » 16 Oct 2023 04:15

Cain Marko wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 03:52
SRajesh wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 02:50 Apparently there’s a version of Quran written on animal skin still preserved in one of western Saharan mosques but no one wants to check it nor allowed to just the Xtian and the King James Version noo
Any source that I can explore? What I find very very interesting is that in both the Quran and the Old Testament, idol worship bashing is almost non existent in the early revelations.
In Genesis for example, you'll find nothing negative about idolatry. The only reference to it is an episode related to Jacob's escape from his father in law, and it too is not necessarily negative. In fact the episode can be understood to suggest that keeping idols was traditional practice in the Jewish homes.
My take is that the virulence vs idolatry only begins after the Jewish enslavement under the Egyptian pharaohs. Sort of a response to the trauma of that episode!

The Bible Old Testament is a bunch of books written by multiple authors at different times, and there is a different focus on each of those books, but the Quran is a bunch of poetic expressions. But both have the influence of polytheism before monotheism became the emphasis.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Oct 2023 05:27

Ahead of possible visit, Biden says Israeli occupation of Gaza is ‘big mistake’

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Oct 2023 05:31

^^^^^

The US is divided. Blinken visits Israel and gives support of all kinds. I would imagine Nuland is also in that pack.

Now Biden has placed restrictions on what Blinken said!!!!

We have known that this US admin is divided. We now have an example.

AkshaySG · Post by **AkshaySG** » 16 Oct 2023 07:03

Is the admin divided or are they trying to placate both parties?

I don't think Blinken et al are currently acting outside Biden's interests.

The US needed to show a strong response to the attacks and they did so but they were always going to pressure Israel via the backdoor for concessions.

Biden has an election year coming up and a lot of his more left leaning base is now pro Palestinian.. He and the Democrats cannot afford alieninting them all. If enough of the the Bernie/soc dem types stay home on election day it means a clear Republican victory

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 16 Oct 2023 07:43

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/thou ... 231015.htm
Thousands of Israeli troops ordered to capture Gaza
Utkarsh Mishra, October 15, 2023
The Israeli military has begun preparations to attack the Gaza Strip soon with tens of thousands of soldiers ordered to capture Gaza City and destroy the current leadership of Hamas, The New York Times reported on Sunday.
It reported that the main aim of the Israeli military is to eliminate the top political and military hierarchy of the Hamas terror group.
It remains uncertain what Israel will do with Gaza City, Hamas's stronghold and the enclave's largest urban centre, if it captures it, or what exactly Israeli officials mean when they describe the destruction of Hamas's leadership.
The Israeli military has begun preparations to attack the Gaza Strip soon with tens of thousands of soldiers ordered to capture Gaza City and destroy the current leadership of Hamas, The New York Times reported on Sunday.
It reported that the main aim of the Israeli military is to eliminate the top political and military hierarchy of the Hamas terror group.
It remains uncertain what Israel will do with Gaza City, Hamas's stronghold and the enclave's largest urban centre, if it captures it, or what exactly Israeli officials mean when they describe the destruction of Hamas's leadership.
Hamas, considered a terrorist group by the United States and the European Union, is a large social movement as well as a militia that is deeply embedded within Gazan society.
It is also unclear whether Hezbollah, the larger, Iran-backed Lebanese militia that is allied with Hamas and possesses a vast array of precision-guided missiles and ground forces, might respond to an invasion of Gaza by opening up a second front with Israel along the Lebanese border, The New York Times reported.
The Israeli military has not officially confirmed that their soldiers will invade Gaza but has said that their troops were increasing their 'readiness' for a ground war.
......
Gautam

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 16 Oct 2023 08:29

It reported that the main aim of the Israeli military is to eliminate the top political and military hierarchy of the Hamas terror group.

Eliminating only the top leadership will be a mistake. Foot soldiers are more dangerous and barbaric. They are the ones who provide the muscle, and eat organs of captured Israeli soldiers when they are still alive. Israel needs to shoot each and everyone associated with Hamas, whether senior or junior. Anyone wielding a gun for Hamas has to be eliminated. This is the time for Israel to be ruthless, when the world opinion is on its side.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 16 Oct 2023 08:56

This looks like macabre ultra-realistic FPS videogame -- absolutely monstrous -- almost seems filmed this way on purpose:

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 16 Oct 2023 08:57

Does the US base in Qatar have a 111 brigade? thats where the Hama top leadership is based.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Oct 2023 09:08

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Oct 2023 10:18

After all these daya, Congress Party in India does rethink

The Congress unequivocally condemns the attack on the innocent civilians of Israel by Hamas.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Oct 2023 10:38

Atmavik wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 08:57 Does the US base in Qatar have a 111 brigade? thats where the Hama top leadership is based.

Yes USA has a huge base in Qatar, along with lots of Troops to protect them. Qatar can't really lift a finger without USA nod. I suspect one of a few things

1) This could be an offramp for Ukraine
2) US was not happy with Israel's lack of support for Ukrainian cause, wanted Netanyahu out

USA is the protector of the Qatar Royal family- so they really can't be doing something against the USA deep state interests. and I dont belive that such amounts of weaponry- 5000 rockets, imagine the Launchers, steel, communication equipment, Fuel for the Rockets, Payload of the rockets, integrated attack - all this going inside Gaza.

The whole thing is looking very suspicious. MSNBC has quietly taken Mehdi Hasan and Co off air during this time. And surely any Hamas person within Gaza knows they and theirs family will perish, not all will be convinced by 72 virgins. It just does not add up.

But Israel now needs to keep the pressure, cut off food, water, fuel , electricity while keep hyping up an invasion every day. When people in Gaza are sick and invalid, move in and finish Hamas and its infrastructure.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 16 Oct 2023 10:46

What the heck has been happening on campus?

Don’t Hire My Anti-Semitic Law Students

Last year, Berkeley’s Law Students for Justice in Palestine asked other student groups to adopt a bylaw that banned supporters of Israel from speaking at events. It excluded any speaker who “expressed and continued to hold views or host/sponsor/promote events in support of Zionism, the apartheid state of Israel, and the occupation of Palestine.” Nine student groups adopted the bylaw.

The campus groups had the legal right to pick or exclude speakers based on their views. The bylaw remains, and 11 other groups subsequently adopted it.

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 16 Oct 2023 10:56

bala wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 04:06
Cain Marko wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 03:48 Do you have any sources about qibla being towards Petra? Quite fascinating
Don't want to de-rail this thread on topics like qibla but here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGH_5d6ltmE . Note that Petra as it is known today may have had another name in ancient times. Petra was a thriving booming metropolis during the birth of Islam, a beacon of wealth, trade, and culture.

Cain Marko ji, with your biased mind set you are derailing the thread. Just for your info you can study the direction of all your qiblas from blow link.
https://nabataea.net/explore/founding_o ... ibla-tool/
more over read the quran with translations critically not from your mullas. you will learn a lot.

What I find very very interesting is that in both the Quran and the Old Testament, idol worship bashing is almost non existent

does it not mentioned in "Life of Mohammad" by ibn ishaq page 552, Mohammad ordered to destroy idols stating its false god? not everything Muslims follows is in Quran. It is there in other books. If they follow Quran only, then Muslims should allow Jews to have full Israel as it is promised land to them as per Quran 5:19-25.

regarding idol worship bashing read Quran 21.56 to 63

Sahih International: He said, "[No], rather, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth who created them, and I, to that, am of those who testify. And by Allah , I will surely plan against your idols after you have turned and gone away." So he made them into fragments, except a large one among them, that they might return to it [and question]. They said, "Who has done this to our gods? Indeed, he is of the wrongdoers." ....
however this is what even mohammad did which is sunnat for every muslim.
bukari 3:43:658
Narated By ‘Abdullah bin Masud : The Prophet entered Mecca and (at that time) there were three hundred-and-sixty idols around the Ka’ba. He started stabbing the idols with a stick he had in his hand and reciting: “Truth (Islam) has come and Falsehood (disbelief) has vanished.”

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Oct 2023 10:59

Amber G. wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 10:18 After all these daya, Congress Party in India does rethink
The Congress unequivocally condemns the attack on the innocent civilians of Israel by Hamas.

Amber ji,

Every time the minders get the feeding bottle out of the "youth leaders" mouth, which, BTW, is otherwise and oftentimes filled with his own maladroit feet, the sole freedom fighter party's political position changes for the worse.

Is it confusion, consternation or cold feet before the elections.....

The extreme fear of vote bank drift is causing fear and panic in the ranks of the h0use ni**er leadership

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 16 Oct 2023 11:11

madhu wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 10:56
bala wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 04:06
Don't want to de-rail this thread on topics like qibla but here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGH_5d6ltmE . Note that Petra as it is known today may have had another name in ancient times. Petra was a thriving booming metropolis during the birth of Islam, a beacon of wealth, trade, and culture.
Cain Marko ji, with your biased mind set you are derailing the thread. Just for your info you can study the direction of all your qiblas from blow link.
https://nabataea.net/explore/founding_o ... ibla-tool/
more over read the quran with translations critically not from your mullas. you will learn a lot.

What I find very very interesting is that in both the Quran and the Old Testament, idol worship bashing is almost non existent
does it not mentioned in "Life of Mohammad" by ibn ishaq page 552, Mohammad ordered to destroy idols stating its false god? not everything Muslims follows is in Quran. It is there in other books. If they follow Quran only, then Muslims should allow Jews to have full Israel as it is promised land to them as per Quran 5:19-25.

Sirji - did you take an extra peg or two today or what? I was simply asking Bala for a source that I could explore - and this was in repsonse to a video that he had posted about Petra being the early Qibla.

As far as the distaste for idolworship goes, my point was that this comes in much later in the respective books. The early revelations are not so anti-idolatry - I even gave the example of Genesis. As far as Quranic chronology is concerned the first 35-40 Suras mention nothing about idolatry. Again, this was in response to Rajeshji's post about different versions fo the Quran.

Seriously man, you need to read a lot more and lay off the good stuff before you butt into conversations and pontificate about derailing threads!

From their responses, other forumers got my point clearly and responded accordingly.