Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 16 Oct 2023 11:17

Cain Marko wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 11:11 As far as Quranic chronology is concerned the first 35-40 Suras mention nothing about idolatry.

sir, there is a concept of abrogation while understanding quran. you need to read that too to make since why meccan verses are not to be used now. i had edited the post and given you references within 35 suras (Quran 21:56 to 65, assuming you are talking w.r.t chapters and not chronological order of revelations) on destruction of idols

Seriously man, you need to read a lot more and lay off the good stuff before you butt into conversations and pontificate about derailing threads!

my point is quran cannot be read like bible or geeta... u need to really spend time.

we can discuss about islam in other thread if you want. not here.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 16 Oct 2023 11:34

madhu wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 11:17 sir, there is a concept of abrogation while understanding quran. you need to read that too to make since why meccan verses are not to be used now.

Uhh - how is a conversation about petra being the qibla even remotely following conventions of Islamic reading? IOWS, the conversation from its very inception was never about a conventional or "proper" understanding of the Quran theologically. To the contrary it was exactly the opposite - reinterpreting conventional understanding! So why should one expect an observation of conventional practices like abrogration? Dimaagh chalao yaar.

my point is quran cannot be read like bible or geeta... u need to really spend time.

Bhaiyya the whole point was about reinterpreting Islamic theology and Quran. That's what Balaji's video of Jaipur Dialogues was about to begin with. That's what Rajeshji was also talking about and so was I.

we can discuss about islam in other thread if you want. not here

You are the one who is extending this conversation in the name of it derailing the thread. If you just take a breath for 2 minutes, and attempt to understand the entire conversation the thread will be fine and this subject can move elsewhere if needed. In fact, since my earliest response to this conversation I have been repeatedly saying that this conversation should continue elsewhere and not here. But lo and behold, you won't let it die!

Any way this will be my last on this topic in this thread.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Oct 2023 13:22

^^^Bhailog
My sincere request, lets not clog this thread (I need to temper my posts as well as I am equally guilty)
Lets keep this for Hamas and war
We could start a theology thread as a separate one
\would be good to understand a lot of things and stop forwarding biased versions

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Oct 2023 13:25

Bidenwa calling restraint
What gives???
Is this a response to Ruski-Chin tango

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Oct 2023 13:44

Blinken back to Israel today after a Middle East tour
Wonder what deal agreed and what we are going to see in next 24 hrs??
What would be a acceptable objective??
Saw something on a Telly discussion: A 2-5 km completely flattened strip of land inside the fencing surrounding the fence a kind of demilitarized zone.
Would that be sufficient?? Will probably stop thousands massing up around the fence but wont stop the rakits!!

Hriday · Post by **Hriday** » 16 Oct 2023 15:08

I posted the below in a school whatsapp group.

I follow STAR Boy @Starboy2079 in X (formerly Twitter). A summary of his comments on the recent international events is given below.

He is saying that there is a global elite group called the 'Deep State ' who are based in the USA. It consists of mostly wealthy business families, politicians etc. They had a strong influence on most governments, judiciary, companies, media, and NGOs throughout the world.

They want to increase their influence and rule the world. To achieve this, they will do controlled destruction of the economy, and religious/spiritual/moral values through proxies. When people are exhausted with destruction with no hope or help from any strong nation they will appear as saviour and rule most of the world.

Presently they plan to have mass migration through the open border policy in the USA and Europe, especially for the religious extremists which will cause economic and social distress. Then organise widespread religion-based wars throughout the world.

In addition to the above, I wonder if the hostile attitude of Western scientists/science establishments toward anything related to religion/spirituality, the economic and military support from the West to Pakistan for many decades, the refusal to intervene when Hamas was building and firing heavy rocket barrage on Israeli civilians for many years etc could be due to the influence of Deep State.

[url][https://x.com/Starboy2079/status/167512 ... Q&s=08/url]

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Oct 2023 18:24

The tUnited States Central Command (USCC) and United State Air Force Central Command (USAFCC) are in Qatar. If it is true that Qatar funds Hamas and that Hamas leaders have residence in Qatar, few from the western and allied press will write about this; and it does lead one to believe that there is a deep state.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Oct 2023 19:20

A_Gupta wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 18:24 The tUnited States Central Command (USCC) and United State Air Force Central Command (USAFCC) are in Qatar. If it is true that Qatar funds Hamas and that Hamas leaders have residence in Qatar, few from the western and allied press will write about this; and it does lead one to believe that there is a deep state.

What percent of this "deep state" is Jewish?

((
As a FYI only:

CENTCOM's main headquarters is located at MacDill Air Force Base, in Tampa, Florida. A forward headquarters was established in 2002 at Camp As Sayliyah in Doha, Qatar, which in 2009 transitioned to a forward headquarters at Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar.
))

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 16 Oct 2023 19:56

Hriday wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 15:08 He is saying that there is a global elite group called the 'Deep State ' who are based in the USA. It consists of mostly wealthy business families, politicians etc. They had a strong influence on most governments, judiciary, companies, media, and NGOs throughout the world.

They want to increase their influence and rule the world. To achieve this, they will do controlled destruction of the economy, and religious/spiritual/moral values through proxies. When people are exhausted with destruction with no hope or help from any strong nation they will appear as saviour and rule most of the world.

Presently they plan to have mass migration through the open border policy in the USA and Europe, especially for the religious extremists which will cause economic and social distress. Then organise widespread religion-based wars throughout the world.

In addition to the above, I wonder if the hostile attitude of Western scientists/science establishments toward anything related to religion/spirituality, the economic and military support from the West to Pakistan for many decades, the refusal to intervene when Hamas was building and firing heavy rocket barrage on Israeli civilians for many years etc could be due to the influence of Deep State.

[url][https://x.com/Starboy2079/status/167512 ... Q&s=08/url]

How does this all is relevant to Hamas-Israel discussion here?

Hriday · Post by **Hriday** » 16 Oct 2023 20:26

Jay wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 19:56
How does this all is relevant to Hamas-Israel discussion here?

It says Deep State want religious wars throughout the world. I aslo said that the world powers didn't intervene when Hamas was firing rockets for many years.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 16 Oct 2023 21:01

BRF turning into WhatsApp university

Hriday · Post by **Hriday** » 16 Oct 2023 21:49

vimal wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 21:01 BRF turning into WhatsApp university

You got anything worthwhile to post here?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Oct 2023 22:01

bala · Post by **bala** » 16 Oct 2023 22:03

NRao, you just beat me but I was reviewing the lively session with Aadi Achint and Sanjay Dixit in Jaipur Dialogues.

Just my notes:
Cracks Within Islamic Nations Over Israel-Gaza-Hamas War are huge and it is worth getting familiar with such viewpoints. One of the faults is to assume Palestines as Arabs, which people in UAE will not accept. In Ottoman empire there was no mention of Palestine as a separate entity. No Islamic nation will accept the Palestines into their country. Gaza divides the arabs. Some of them want a good relationship with Israel but the religion factor forces them into Palestine camp.

BTW Nikki Haley asks why muslim countries won't take Palestinian refugees.

bala · Post by **bala** » 16 Oct 2023 23:00

I know the Deep State was mentioned here. Now, Aditya Satsangi and Vibhuti Jha discuss with Sanjay Dixit in Jaipur Dialogues the unstable middle east. The terrorist action of Hamas on Israel has been changed into independence for Palestine. The middle east is an oil/gas resource. The Britshits drew arbitrary lines in the sand, propped up certain people thereby fanning opposition and revenge. UAE, Saudi, Syria etc are leaning towards non-dollar trade for oil/gas. There is a huge stash of western weapons strewn everywhere in the middle east. Many oil extracting companies are western owned.

There was a huge intelligence lag in Israel about the Hamas attack. Disgruntled elements were involved, there is a major left/woke faction everywhere. The Ukraine tussle with Russia is heading towards a disaster for the West.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Oct 2023 23:05

In another video, a few days back, Col. Raina suggested that Bharatiyas should purchase arms, within the law, and get trained, because of the high potential of lone wolf attacks. He said that one cannot wait for law enforcement to come and act - that would be too late.

_________________________________________________________

Good amount of interesting data points.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Oct 2023 23:15

US Department of State webpage:
https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-coop ... with-qatar

Since 2003, Qatar has contributed more than $8 billion in developing al-Udeid Air Base for use by the United States, and the base is host to the headquarters of U.S. Central Command Forward, U.S. Air Force Central Command Forward, and U.S. Special Operations Command Central Command Forward, as well as Combined Joint Interagency Task Force – Syria, U.S. Central Command’s Combined Air Operations Center, and the U.S. Air Force’s 379th Air Expeditionary Wing. These contributions are indispensable to supporting U.S. military operations throughout the region.

Western sources don't talk about it much, but e.g., from India:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 347525.cms
"Who is Ismail Haniyeh? Senior Hamas leader who leads a lavish lifestyle in Qatar"

---
Reuters reports:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-10-14/

Oct 14 (Reuters) - Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh met with Iran's foreign minister on Saturday in Qatar, where they discussed the Palestinian militant group's deadly attack in Israel "and agreed to continue cooperation" to achieve the group's goals, Hamas said in a statement.

During their meeting in Qatar's capital Doha, Iranian foreign minister Hossein Amirabdollahian praised the rampage as a "historic victory" that had dealt a setback to Israel's occupation of Palestinian territory.

I know this journalist is not popular, but it is worth listening to this. The great lesser-told story in the media perhaps is Qatar's funding of Hamas.

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 16 Oct 2023 23:42

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 15112.html

^^ Chilling footage from Go-Pro of a Hamas terrorist, and his death rattle in the end when shot by IDF

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 16 Oct 2023 23:50

Steve McGuire @sfmcguire79
Jon Huntsman, in an email to @Penn President Liz Magill, says the “university’s silence in the face of reprehensible and historic Hamas evil against the people of Israel…is a new low.”
“Consequently, Huntsman Foundation will close its checkbook on all future giving to Penn.”

https://twitter.com/sfmcguire79/status/ ... 0918793250

The @dailypenn reports the email was sent Saturday. President Magill issued the following statement on Sunday:

NEW: Amidst calls for her resignation, a new statement from @Penn
President Liz Magill:

She and the university “condemn Hamas's terrorist assault on Israel and their violent atrocities against civilians” and stand “emphatically against antisemitism.”

Regarding the Palestine Writes Literature Festival: “While we did communicate, we should have moved faster to share our position strongly and more broadly with the Penn community.”

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 16 Oct 2023 23:51

Watch both videos

https://twitter.com/Ranting4Canada/stat ... 8619898229
While it is important to call out those who commit acts of genocidal terrorism and those who cheer it on with pride. There is another villain here, the enablers of the Left.
For too long the intellectually lazy and self-righteous have allowed the spread of evil across the world.

Here is an example

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 4389728443
Hinduphobia spreading like wild fire.
Harvard’s Suraj Yengde & Ajantha Subramanian leading the campaign. As explained in my book #SnakesintheGanga. The third prof featured is Hanson of Stanford occupying the Reliance Dhirubhai Ambani professorship.

bala · Post by **bala** » 17 Oct 2023 00:17

If you want to know why India supports Israel and its fight against Hamas and its terror campaign, please watch this YT..
Mark Regev talks about how jews were never persecuted in India, the number of shared exchanges, close ties and much more.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 17 Oct 2023 00:36

So looks like Qatar is actually a front for the big states to fund and shelter the yahoos in ME ever since EyeYesEyeYes …or may be it is a white label yahoo funding factory that you can hire or label and brand anything you want … Bakis must be envious ! Qatar is too small to lead on its own, gives deniability and strokes the beards of the ruling family nicely …
The media fallout looks like the old dogs like Mehdi, Some Guardian lefty cartoonists have been suspended for their usual OTT one-sided hysteria. Our own IED Burkha is on the frontline , I hope the IDF stays clear of her !

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Oct 2023 00:49

Rubio asks Biden administration to cancel visas for foreign nationals supporting Hamas

In addition, Rubio said he would pursue legislation that withholds federal funding from colleges and universities that allow pro-Palestine protests, demonstrations and other activities that could be seen to “endorse or espouse terrorist activity or persuade others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization.”

जागृत, उत्पद्, अग्रे गच्छतु

bala · Post by **bala** » 17 Oct 2023 01:06

S_Madhukar wrote:Bakis must be envious

Please note the ISI of Pukes is effectively under the control of CIA of US. After Britshits partition, Bakis were keeping a close eye on Rus/Soviet for the Brit MI5. The same Brit MI5 were getting intelligence feed from India's IB upto 1964 or so. The Brit MI5 became a subsidiary for the CIA. The ISI of Pukes keeps a close tab around the neighborhood including India, Afghanistan and Iran. The Chinese weaseled their way into the Pukes, due to the blow hot/blow cold behavior of CIA. During the heydays of US-China joint cooperation (of propping China as the manufacturing hub for the US and world) transfer of nuke tech ( china's nuke + US PAL tech to secure them) to pukes was made to counter India. The Puke counter bumb explosion was a joint decision by US and China to explode the chinese pataka. The alliance of ISI with CIA and China CCCP continues to this day.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 17 Oct 2023 02:00

Hriday wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 20:26
It says Deep State want religious wars throughout the world. I aslo said that the world powers didn't intervene when Hamas was firing rockets for many years.

Who is Deep State here...

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 17 Oct 2023 04:56

Expect we'll see more such resolutions in city councils across the country as a way to clarify where people stand.

Hamas and Black Lives Matter in Chicago

Progressives disrupt the City Council to block a pro-Israel resolution.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Oct 2023 05:04

vera_k wrote: ↑17 Oct 2023 04:56 Expect we'll see more such resolutions in city councils across the country as a way to clarify where people stand.

Hamas and Black Lives Matter in Chicago

Progressives disrupt the City Council to block a pro-Israel resolution.

That is

The City of Chicago (the city that built Hussain Obama) is shelling out a few 1000 $ to house and feed immigrants and their own voters are going hungry.

I would not take Chicago seriously like California (which in the name of "equity" wants to dumb down math and get rid of calculus) and New York City.

I heard Detroit held massive rallies in support of Palestine.

I wonder why Minneapolis has not shown her true colors.

saip · Post by **saip** » 17 Oct 2023 05:09

Jay wrote: ↑17 Oct 2023 02:00
Hriday wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 20:26
It says Deep State want religious wars throughout the world. I aslo said that the world powers didn't intervene when Hamas was firing rockets for many years.
Who is Deep State here...

You can not be serious. DeepState is Omniscient, Omnipotent and probably Omnivorous. It loves blood and gore. Doubt not where it is. It is every where you look. You may have to break a pillar to find it.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 17 Oct 2023 05:43

‘Deceptive fraud’: Netizens call out Ilhan Omar for fake post attributing death of children to Israel

US Congresswoman Ilhan Omar is facing flak for sharing a fake post with images of dead children alleging that they were Palestinians killed by Israeli forces. Taking to X(formerly Twitter) on Saturday, Omar reposted the images with the caption “CHILD GENOCIDE IN PALESTINE.” After being called out, she quietly un-reposted the tweet.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 17 Oct 2023 06:34

saip wrote: ↑17 Oct 2023 05:09
Jay wrote: ↑17 Oct 2023 02:00

Who is Deep State here...
You can not be serious. DeepState is Omniscient, Omnipotent and probably Omnivorous. It loves blood and gore. Doubt not where it is. It is every where you look. You may have to break a pillar to find it.

All right, sai ji let's stick to what you said. So all the countries that are scrambling now to contain this conflict are not part of deep state then? On this very thread I heard posters name hamas(obviously), iran, russia, china, elements of netanyahu admin as the reason for this islamic terror act and the ensuing conflict. So are these entities part of deep state then?

In the interest of keeping the focus on the terror act of hamas, we can take this discussion to a different thread, but it seems some posters seem to use "deep-state" as a catch all term for everything and frankly it's coming across as some sort of conspiracy theory reasoning.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Oct 2023 07:33

Jay,

The thing about conspiracy theories is, that there's always an element of truth to them.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Oct 2023 07:39

Jay Don't brow beat new comers like Hriday.
No one is born full formed. As a senior help bring clarity.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 17 Oct 2023 08:19

https://www.opindia.com/2023/10/israels ... formation/
‘Stop spreading fake news and hatred about Israel’: Israel’s Consul General in India slams Mohammed Zubair for spreading disinformation
The Consul General's tweet comes in the wake of attempts made by pro-Hamas elements to peddle propaganda against Israeli retaliation to the terror attacks. Earlier, the propaganda pushers tried to discredit the cold-blooded murder of Israeli children, including babies, toddlers, and infants, by casting aspersions on its authenticity.

The Govt. should use this opportunity to block this SOB for spreading antisemitism

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 17 Oct 2023 10:30

vijayk wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 23:51

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 4389728443
Hinduphobia spreading like wild fire.
Harvard’s Suraj Yengde & Ajantha Subramanian leading the campaign. As explained in my book #SnakesintheGanga. The third prof featured is Hanson of Stanford occupying the Reliance Dhirubhai Ambani professorship.

FWIW wrt to this some background: I posted in other dhaga:
>>>I posted this in other dhaga:

Amber G. wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 20:14 For good of USA , India and all decent people - this hate must be countered and not be ignored.

Rajiv Malhotra's Tweet:
Hinduphobia spreading like wild fire.
Harvard’s Suraj Yengde & Ajantha Subramanian <snip>
!

Some update/Background: The woman was fired from Harvard (she’s not there any more - though she still lies in her profile ) and Yengde is not a tenure track prof (and, I believe, he will soon be history). Regarding t Thomas Blom Hanson - who does have the Reliance chair in anthropology .. WHY is the Reliance Chair given to such a Hindu-hater? Doesn't the donor place any restrictions on the type of people who can be chosen? (If you ever meet Mukesh Ambani, hope you'll ask him why he's funding such toxic people.. TIA)

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 17 Oct 2023 10:48

Meanwhile .. Huntsman's letter/action seem to have some effect..:

Penn president Liz Magill said university “should have moved faster” in opposing Palestine Writes speakers with history of antisemitism

Also: Some what noteworthy news...
The Wexner Foundation announces that it is cutting ties with Harvard
over "the dismal failure of Harvard’s leadership to take a clear and unequivocal stand against the barbaric murders of innocent Israeli civilians by terrorists last Saturday."

(Hope more take such action)

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 17 Oct 2023 11:18

vijayk wrote: ↑17 Oct 2023 08:19 .....
The Govt. should use this opportunity to block this SOB for spreading antisemitism

Wasn't he let off by the indian courts once before?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 17 Oct 2023 14:16

So whats next for Israel?
The evacuation of Gaza residents to southern part is happening or not, its not clear.
The moment Israel has said this, I'm sure a lot of Hamas terrorists have already moved south and dispersed into "innocent civilians".
Egypt is not willing to take them on, as does no one else.

Bibi asked for 10B funding which will be put through Congress. (Move over Zelinski, the world is sick and tired of your security guard uniform and your wife's designer outfits)

IDF has amassed tanks all around Gaza, but there is a high risk that they will become trophy kills in the dense urban jungle of Gaza Strip and splashed all over the world's SM.

For comparison, Mariupol took 7 or 8 months for Russians to take, even if they were constrained to minimise their own and civilian casualties. IDF may not be so careful, but this will take several weeks if not months, with no guarantee the terrorists havent escaped or new ones aren't being recruited and trained somewhere in the Ummah.

If the only remaining way left is to destroy Gaza and its nearly 2 million civilians along with it, the world will NOT support such an action, including India.

Iran, Syria, Lebanon/Hezbollah will attack from all sides if Israel indeed starts such an operation.

If Hamas doesnt have an end game, then does Israel in the current situation?

EU once again will pay with Islamist terrorists coming out of woodworks and killing randomly. France had one killing last Fri, and Brussels had 2 people killed yesterday.

All leaders are being very tentative...

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 17 Oct 2023 15:26

Cyrano wrote: ↑17 Oct 2023 14:16 ...

EU once again will pay with Islamist terrorists coming out of woodworks and killing randomly. France had one killing last Fri, and Brussels had 2 people killed yesterday.

All leaders are being very tentative...

And to think India went through so many magnitude larger killings on an almost daily basis and that too for decades. Amazing to see our sheer resilience (i refuse to think it was entirely just fatalistic acceptance)

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 17 Oct 2023 16:28

Our population being 1B+ with many poor may have something to do with it. I was in Mumbai right after the blasts and 26/11. People who had to work every day had to swallow the fear and get out to earn a living, and others were saying of they can go and work, why cant we? etc. Perhaps its that buzzing beehive spirit of Mumbaikars (which I was too for a few years and salute) but many other cities reacted the same way perhaps after a day or two of stunned slowdown.

in EU, whenever such a thing happens, one of the routine things that govts do is open a PTSD center to help victims, families and nearby people. Don't know how useful they are perhaps they indeed are useful since they have no nukkads and chai shops or BRF to talk, listen, vent etc...

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 17 Oct 2023 16:52

Make your own conclusions as to which way things are headed.

Anthony Blinken , Sec. of State, comes into Israel few days back, and says that he comes here as a Jew and not as a emissary of the President of US. Egypt asks Blinken what he means by that in face to face talks.
MBS called Iranian leader, breaking a long silence btween 2 regimes.
2000 American Soldiers notified to get ready .
2 Aircraft carrriers in place.
Israelis hitting southern Lebanon with artillery.
Iran indicating opening another war front.

And IDF on Gaza is just staring.

All signs that we are heading into a regional conflict.