Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

[disha]

Disha ji,
...The mask issue has been largely blown out of proportion IMO. In many East Asian countries, people have been routinely wearing masks when they have a cold or flu since decades. Its out of simple courtesy to avoid exposing other people to something you are carrying that you know is contagious. My freedom to not wear a mask doesn't mean I can expose others around me to an(y) infectious virus that has caused a lot of fear and panic. The govts need not enforce such mask mandates if people were a bit sensible and wore them voluntarily. I havent heard of anyone dying solely because of wearing a mask.

Similarly this anti-vaxxer sentiment is also hard to understand. There have been a lot of claims about premature deaths etc etc. But most are anecdotal and do not amount to any conclusive evidence that vaccines are the primary cause and the risks of not being vaccinated - at a population level and not at an individual level - outweigh the risk of serious illness and death...

Cyrano'ji. East Asian countries wearing masks out of courtesy is different from Mask Mandate. If someone is *not* wearing mask out of uncourteous behaviour while exhibiting symptoms of flu, cold or COVID., that person is not behaving maybe socially appropriate.

Would you kick that person out, deny them service, deny them their rights, just on the suspicion that the person might be "contagious" of Covid?

Take a step further, if the person is healthy and has no visible symptoms, would you enforce a mask mandate? To the point of arrest? So let's say you step out to get a government service to renew your DL or go to utility to pay your bill or go to a bank to withdraw cash. And you have no symptoms. And are vaccinated, thrice, particularly after getting a bout of covid and you are threatened, denied service or arrested with a gun at your head just for not wearing a mask? Or not wearing your mask properly?

What about the two year old who throws away the mask? What about the 82 year old who cannot breathe through mask? What about the 50 year old who has asthama? Or a 30 year old who has allergies and sneezes once? Do you think it is right to arrest them? Calling them uncouth etc?

The mask mandate that is, forced masking, was stupid and is stupid. It just preys on the fear of the people. Mask can be recommended just like it is nice to say "good morning" when we meet people in morning.

Now coming to vaccination, here are the facts:

1. Person survives first wave of Covid. Vaccine is now available. Gets vaccinated. Gets Boosted as well.
2. Gets second covid (omicron)
3. Then gets boosted again by vaccine booster.

That is 2 Covid and 3 Vaccines in total. After this the person goes to a government office, gets an appointment after a long time and the covid card carried has a damage and does not show the 3rd vaccine. The *stupid* baboo (or babooni) gets the person thrown out of office. Denying service.

Worst is the person does not get necessary medical care. Do you think that person is anti-vaxxer if the person is not going for 3rd booster (& 4th vaccine)?

What about the person who has exhibited allergies in past to vaccines is skeptical to getting a vaccine? Not all people are aware the mRNA vaccines are not same as egg-based flu vaccines of past? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3890451/ <- study on vaccine allergies and alternatives.

Do you think such persons are anti-vaxxers? Do you think that person must be thrown out and his rights curtailed? And of course demonized as anti-vaxxer?

So to broad brush people who do not wear masks or do not want to get vaccine without knowing the nuances as uncouth or anti-vaxxer is being judgemental and moralizing. And raising that as an issue is wrong?

*Thankfully, no gun to my head. But yes, the rest is true and also true that a 2-year old was made to sit out till the parent had to rush back and pick the 2-year old up.

Here are examples of stupidity:

https://deadline.com/2023/08/lionsgate- ... 235524039/

Amid rising Covid cases in Los Angeles, Lionsgate has brought back the mask mandate for nearly half of the company’s employees at its flagship office at 2700 Colorado Ave. in Santa Monica.

The policy change was announced internally by Sommer McElroy, Response Manager for Lionsgate/Starz, in an email, a copy of which was obtained by Deadline. Implemented in response to several employees recently testing positive for Covid, it involves a mandatory mask mandate effective immediately and until further notice for the 3rd and 5th floors of the five-story building, the email said.

The virus can read which floors it can go to and cannot go to.

https://www.dillard.edu/covid-19/

Effective Friday, August 25, 2023 the following mandates will be instituted:
1. Indoor masking will be mandated for all students, faculty, staff, and visitors our campus for the next two (2) weeks while we assess the trends on our campuses and;
2. Sponsors (internal or external) of all indoor events will be responsible for monitoring compliance with the mask mandate.
Please be assured our top priority is to maintain a safe environment for our students, faculty, staff and visitors. The Dillard community continues to follow the guidance of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, LDH, and our CMO. We will adjust protocols as necessary.

^Just plain stupid.

https://www.syracuse.com/health/2023/08 ... ck-up.html

Upstate Medical’s two hospitals, University and Community General, reimposed mandatory face-masking Thursday morning after reporting an uptick in Covid-19 cases.

Covid testing is now also required for all patients being admitted to the hospitals, according to a memo sent to Upstate staff and provided to Syracuse.com.

“Effective immediately, mandatory masking is required by all staff, visitors, and patients in clinical areas of Upstate University Hospital, Upstate Community Hospital, and ambulatory clinical spaces,” the memo reads. “Clinical areas are defined as any location patients gather, wait, transport through, or receive care. Masking is strongly recommended in all non-clinical areas.”

Patients suffering from other diseases/morbidities have been left to die just because they tested positive of covid.

---

Now here is the study that makes the entire forced masking and social distancing and lockdown look completely stupid.

The study is a challenge study, that is people volunteered to get Covid and they were monitored. This makes it more relevant. The study was done on healthy individuals who were infected with covid and studied. Study was published in lancet microbe: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanm ... /fulltext

Findings
Between March 6 and July 8, 2021, 36 participants (ten female and 26 male) were recruited and 18 (53%) of 34 participants became infected, resulting in protracted high viral loads in the nose and throat following a short incubation period, with mild-to-moderate symptoms. Two participants were excluded from the per-protocol analysis owing to seroconversion between screening and inoculation, identified post hoc. Viral RNA was detected in 63 (25%) of 252 Coriolis air samples from 16 participants, 109 (43%) of 252 mask samples from 17 participants, 67 (27%) of 252 hand swabs from 16 participants, and 371 (29%) of 1260 surface swabs from 18 participants. Viable SARS-CoV-2 was collected from breath captured in 16 masks and from 13 surfaces, including four small frequently touched surfaces and nine larger surfaces where airborne virus could deposit. Viral emissions correlated more strongly with viral load in nasal swabs than throat swabs. Two individuals emitted 86% of airborne virus, and the majority of airborne virus collected was released on 3 days. Individuals who reported the highest total symptom scores were not those who emitted most virus. Very few emissions occurred before the first reported symptom (7%) and hardly any before the first positive lateral flow antigen test (2%).

My interpretations:

1. So out of 32 participants with infections, only 2 contributed to 86% of airborne virus.
2. If you have strong symptoms does not mean you emit the most virus.
3. If you do not show symptoms, it is as well likely that you are not transmitting virus. Corollary, if you show symptoms, just isolate yourself.
4. Yes, there are few super spreaders.
5. Nose is the most source of emissions.
6. Self-Isolation on first symptom would curb transmission more effectively.

[Cyrano]

Saar,
Nothing against you or your views. Personally in case of doubt I'd err on the side of caution, for self and others. Again please read my post.

If I was old and can't breathe then I won't venture out during covid times. The studies you quote are hindsight. Most govts imposed rules at the height of the pandemic that they knew were hit or miss, sometimes just to be seen as doing something. To show they're in control. But with varients, remedies that work or don't, lockdowns, some like Nordic countries that didn't the whole world was a mess. If I'm in a public space, especially on the other side of the counter I'm already risking something by showing up to serve others. The least I'd expect sensible people to do is not make me runaway by wearing the damned mask coz _I don't know and can't control_ who walks in. The only way I'd show up is if I can keep disobeying clients out. I could be working at Starbucks or hospital or driving a bus or at a bank. When everyone acts like a looney then the genuine outlier cases you mention can't be catered to. I've seen no other people react so virulently like Americans did. My freedom ends where yours begins and vise versa.

[Cyrano]

Similar argument can be made by dog owners (I'm one) who let their dogs run free in public places (I try my best not to). When a dog runs up to me I have no effing idea what it's intentions are and how to react and how it will react to my reaction. If I refuse to leash my dog and muzzle it then I can't argue that I'm denied entry into a park or a train etc. That my dog is super well trained, never bit anyone, doesn't have teeth, is a chiwawa or a pitbull is irrelevant. I had a neighbour who had a big startle, fell and nearly had heart attack and had to be hospitalized when someone's dog (thank god not mine) rushed at her to play.

Someone's life or just not scaring someone is reason enough to use a leash or mask. If I can't offer and expect such courtesy then I'd have some serious questions about the kind of society I'm living in.

[disha]

Cyrano'ji, same here, nothing against your views and in some cases I do agree that there is a middle ground. Qstn is how to reach the middle ground?

My point is the "mask mandate" in US became a diktat. And that too a very dictatorial diktat.

That is, serious harm to your livelihood and even your life would be there if you even so slightly slipped off the mask mandate.

So what should have been a recommended practice, became a dictatorial order, just like Jews were made to carry the star of David, in this case you have to wear the mask otherwise you may be publicly ridiculed, your job taken away, attacked or even jailed.

Correlation with dog owners is wrong. You may be denied entry into a park or a train for not muzzling. Fine. You have other perfect alternatives. At the same time, not everyone goes to job with a muzzled dog. You leave the dog home. That is not the case when you lose your job just because you took your mask off for few minutes. You do not get treated like a criminal if you do not muzzle your leashed dog in a park. Or treated like a criminal. Mask mandate is mandatory muzzling.

Imagine being at the job, 10-12 hours and need to keep your mask perfectly. Ridiculously, you have to maintain a social distance during lunch time and eat in isolation. Funny thing is, you cannot eat through mask, so people had to take off the mask. As if the virus will take a meal break!

And the mask police would be constantly watching over you, so that you can put back the mask. This was taken to ridiculous levels during orchestra's and school bands. Where holes were cut into masks so that the orchestra bands can play their instruments. Imagine playing a wood wind instrument with a mask on! Or soccer with masks on. Or baseball with masks on. Or football with masks on!

Mask's were enforced on beaches. Even when the nearest person is 100 mtrs away. I was worried that I will be transformed into a new species, Homo Sapien Maskensis, with all the protection from Sun due to the mask on the sunburnt face leaving a permanent imprint!

And on the flip side, the masks created additional problems!

Wearing masks for a prolonged period of time causes a host of physiologic and psychologic burdens and can decrease work efficiency. And it also affect the wearer’s whole body thermal sensation.

The above is from the study on prolonged usage of mask among ENT professionals. Here is another excerpt from the same study:

Of these 124 participants, 63.71% experienced difficulty in breathing while wearing face mask, 37.10% experienced dry nose, 46.77% experienced dry mouth, 57.26% experienced nasal skin irritation and discoloration, about 49.19% developed nasal itching, 83.06% developed sweating in the mask covered area, 39.52% experienced headache and 48.39% removed their mask and take a deep breath when they have headache.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8500263/

And here is the kicker:

As a result of the discomfort caused by the facemasks, the subjects tend to touch the facemasks at frequent intervals (62.9%) and it can lead to contamination of the hands and face leading to more infections.

Does usage of masks actually spread more infections? A challenge study would help here.

Point is, significant burden on population was and is being created due to mask mandates without any benefits. And the larger conclusion in retrospective is that, the following two public policy diktats caused more harm than good:

1. Mass Lockdowns &
2. Mask Mandates

As "new" cases are coming (everyone has one of the 200 rhinovirus at any point in time, similarly everyone will have a "corona" virus at any point in time), one must identify things that did not work and caused unnecessary burden and must be avoided. Two of the above are cited with studies.

---

At NIHFW, where I was sent as a data analyst to get the database associated with health and census going and before the job of the data analyst was even formalized, there was discussion on population control. Cyrano'ji and others, what we found that the Sanjay Gandhi's forced vasectomy during emergency became so counter-productive that vasectomy as an option for population control had to be removed from family planning programme throughout the country. And the abstract point was, on any given population, particularly the Indians (and the Americans), forcing them to do anything will always lead to a blow-back and unintended consequences.

And we had to figure out ways based on data to come up with solutions to population control. And the data then pointed towards female education. All good, so the next two decades (20 yrs) programmes were announced to get females into higher secondary and colleges. Except the females used to drop out at Grade 8. En masse.

It took Modi to identify and fix the issue. I will leave it up to you to identify what Modi did.

[Cyrano]

I agree saar, if people aren't common-sensible to wear masks and it gets politicised, then the pro mask vigilantes coming from the same society will act like "Karens" and it becomes a pointless and ultimately harmful tug of war.

On the last point, Millennium Development Goals and Climate Change measures are similar today. Bad solutions based on incorrect understanding of the problem. If interested, please look up Bjorn Lomberg's work. Public Policy has this annoying habit of producing unforeseen consequences, reminds me of Dan Ariely's work in "Predictably Irrational".

We are getting OT here, we can continue in appropriate threads.

[Amber G.]

The 2023 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine goes to a transformative medical technology that significantly altered the path of the pandemic and saved millions: the mRNA vaccine against COVID-19.

Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman were jointly awarded the prize for their advancements that changed the field of vaccine development and researchers’ understanding of how mRNA interacts with the body’s immune system

[Cyrano]

mmuh.... they should have given it to Burla actually.

[Suresh S]

I have as much respect for these western prizes including the so called noble prize as Arundhoti Roy,s farting being trumeted as literature. They can shove it where the sun does not shine. One real science followed by 5 fake one,s. The damn pfizer and moderna vaccines which did not even work. Patients being admitted with covid and dying even after 2 boosters of these fake vaccines, just shamful these bas@rds.

I am willing to look at real science in an open environment where real science can be discussed but that does not excist only fake propaganda is being paraded as science . I have lost complete faith in anything western ,science related until someone or group of scientist with honor ideally outside these criminal countries can prove otherwise. As far as I am concerned it is a lie until proven otherwise..

[Jay]

I am willing to look at real science in an open environment where real science can be discussed

what is your definition of "real science", and "open environment" suresh ji?

[bala]

The damn pfizer and moderna vaccines which did not even work. Patients being admitted with covid and dying even after 2 boosters of these fake vaccines, just shamful these bas@rds.

Pfizer vaccine has consistently produced side effects and some patients have died after the vaccine. Many are reporting ailments of various kinds including aches/pains/arthritic pain/low energy/not their normal self and much more. Moderna, according to my Dr. Brother-in-law (who has two PhDs), biochemist and who has worked for Lederle (the company mainly benefiting from Dr. Yellapragada SubbaRow's work- see the Indian science thread) and others, is not sure about mRNA of moderna, tis some BS parading as a cure.

fake propaganda is being paraded as science.

Suresh S, please head over to the physics thread where I am having a discussion on another luminary called Einstein.

[disha]

Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman were jointly awarded the prize for their advancements that changed the field of vaccine development and researchers’ understanding of how mRNA interacts with the body’s immune system

Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman rightfully get the coveted Nobel prize in medicine for their advancements that changed the field of vaccine development and understanding of mRNA and immune system interaction.

However to make it as a "significantly altered the path of pandemic" is non-sense. Maybe it altered in select few western countries. But not for the entire human population. It was India's Covaxin and CovidShield that actually ended up significantly altering the path of pandemic. But you will *not* see any major western nation rewarding the scientists from ICMR/NIV or even Bharat Biotech. And nations from the world south (poorer nation) does not have currently the capability to create an award system which rivals the igNoble prizes.

The Nobel prize is a western construct and usually glorifies western achievements only.

For example, Dr. Yellapragada Subbarao (Subbarow) did not get any Nobel prize in Medicine in spite of every other human living today and living in future will owe their life and health to him.

At least the Nobel committee can setup a posthumous recognition framework for all the blunders it did. Including giving an award on the DNA structure to Watson, Crick and Wilkis and ignoring Rosalind Franklin, because Rosalind was a woman.

[disha]

what is your definition of "real science", and "open environment" suresh ji?

Anything that is not-published in western journals or in Ingliss is considered "junk science". While junk gets published in "reputed" western publications which is considered as the "only science". Now you can sir, figure out what is "real science".

Anyone calling out the Chineese-Wuhan virus as lab-gained and lab-leaked were cancelled. They were booted out (and even here, there was a threat of suspension on them). Anyone calling out the issues with long term continued lockdowns (compared to the first one) and against unnecessary mask mandates were ridiculed and were cancelled, sometimes to the thread of their jobs and livelihoods or even facing felony charges. That's quite an "open environment".

Even on this forum and threads, some so-called esteemed poster indulged in name-calling and accusing other forum members of being part of toolkit gang. That helps "open environment" right, Jay'ji?

[Suresh S]

Disha ji this is one subject I know a bit about. The official reason for not giving the noble prize to Rosalind franklin was that she died before the prize could be given and noble prizes are not awarded posthumously.

Rosalind Franklin,s incredible work and the xray diffraction studies of DNA was absolutely critical and central to the discovery of DNA structure by francis crick and james watson. And while we are on the subject of noble prize and DNA structure let me share something with you and it will not be very popular. I consider this so called noble laureate James watson more of a thief than a scientist. This guy broke into the lab of Rosalind Franklin in the 1950,s when he was at cambridge working with francis crick and he stole, yes stole the xray diffraction studies from her drawer that is according to him in the book the "double helix" and also according to other sources. Yes, Sir Francis Crick was the real brain behind the structure and he was a physicist/mathematician not a biologist. But without the critical input from those xray diffraction studies of Rosalind Franklin there would have been no discovery of structure of DNA. Crick was smart enough to figure out the DNA structure from those critical xray diffraction studies stolen from the drawer of Rosalind Franklin,s lab when no one was there in her lab.

It is also alleged by many and with good reason that the noble prize was not given to Rosalind Franklin not only because she was a woman but more importantly that she was jewish. The world of 1950,s was very different than the world of today as far as people of jewish descent are concerned

James Watson being white, right place right time and a great thief and voila Mr Watson has a noble prize.So much for noble prize being awarded for great scientific work. Watson,s input in the whole thing was minimal. At the time when this critical research was being done Watson was 25 and a bird watcher (ornithologist) with no great scientific work behind him.

[Vayutuvan]

Some people I know, who were very careful and remained covid free all these years & had all the vaccinations,& still wear masks in public places -- have come down with the virus..(Recently in a big meeting with Facebook CEO, where all the attendees were required to take a test before the meeting, wore masks during the meeting.. still some came down with the virus) ..

Amber G. ji, add me to your list. In fact, wearing a mask was my undoing as per one of my friends. We were in Bay Area for a marriage and then went around sightseeing in San Fran area. All of were boosted and all that. While my children had covid even after all the boosting and all, they were travelling and also my daughter was attending a confrrence in Lindon. Nobody was wearing a mask there in the conefrence. While her co-researcher who also had boosters and all, got covid while they were sightseeing after the conference. She had to quaratine herself while in scotland. My daughter came back to the US and then tested for Covid. My son traveled by Amtrak once. Nobidy was wearing masks. He also tested +ve for covid a couple of days after the travel. All this while we, nyself and SHQ, weren't affected as we quaratined ourselves. Then we had to attend the weeding.

During the sightseeing, I was the only one who wore the mask. A couple of days later I started showing sympotoms. But I didn't test as Bay area was unseasnably cold when we visited. My covid got passed on to five people. They all had boosters and all that.

My friend's thoery was that my wearing the mask actually made the virus stay in my throat and multiply. If this theory is correct (I sort of give credence to his theory just by reliving what had takne place over those 3-4 days), masking actually makes it more likely to have contract covid due to various reasons including not handling mask correctly, etc.

[Amber G.]

I am willing to look at real science in an open environment where real science can be discussed

what is your definition of "real science", and "open environment" suresh ji?

Interesting (but not surprising knowing some the posters here) to see "discussion"... from just a headline and words from Scientific American I posted. ( Do these Einstein even know that I just posted a link - A link from a reputable newspaper - And they started with pathetic personal attacks /sigh/

I have pretty close to zero respect for Arundhoti's literature. But I will not ask some of the posters for their definition of 'real science' any more that I will ask Rana Ayyub for her opinion about human rights.

Are these guys who have been posting such posts (here and other threads) real.??? They certainly would put Pakistan's anti-vaxxers to shame in their ignorance, arrogance and uncivil behaviour.

Not my problem..


Anyway Meanwhile:

Indian media's reaction is quite mature.


Prime Minister Narendra Modi: Congratulations to Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman on winning the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their groundbreaking work on mRNA vaccines. Their research has saved millions of lives and helped us turn the tide of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Union Health Minister Mansukh Mandaviya: Heartiest congratulations to Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman on winning the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their groundbreaking work on mRNA vaccines. Their research has revolutionized the way we fight diseases and has the potential to save millions of lives in the future.

The Indian media and government have both congratulated Katalin Kariko on winning the Nobel Prize in Medicine for her work on mRNA vaccines. They have praised her groundbreaking research and its potential to save millions of lives.

And as Balaji said, " please head over to the physics thread where I [Balaji ] am having a discussion on another luminary called Einstein."
<link>

Getting out of here.

[Suresh S]

People with little or no knowledge about medicine writing page after page of non sensical prose for last 3 years is a bit too much to take . A relative doing medicine does not make a person a doctor just like my close relative standing in the first 20 all india rank in IIT entrance rank make me an engineer. Therefore I only make any remark about things that I have qualification for and a lot of experience dealing with it personally. I am no anti vaxer etc.

Just pointing out what I and others have seen in real life with real patients not like some in their imagination or heard from some relative.These vaccines from moderna and pfizer work partially if that. whether pandemic was controlled because of these vaccines in the US or whether it was natural infection which gave all of us immunity is a subject which should be deeply investigated scientifically. But for that to happen especially with this administration in power is highly unlikely only fake news and peudo science will continue.


In the meantime moderna and pfizer in cahoots with this nice administration made over 100 billion dollars based on vaccine which work partially at best that is the real, from the ground opinion from many american hospitals. Have a nice day

[srin]

I don't know what the issue is.
The West was almost exclusively vaccinated using mRNA vaccine. Therefore, the West doesn't know about any other vaccine. The Covid survivors of the West therefore were all mRNA vaccinated, and thus saved by mRNA vax. Therefore, the entire world was saved by mRNA vax. So the mRNA vax creators saved the entire world. So they get Nobel prize.

The plebs of East and Global South who defied common sense and refused to sign away sovereignty used medieval vaccine (that weren't FDA approved) and consequently suffered millions of deaths. They can watch Vaccine War as consolation prize.

What's so difficult to understand ?

[Cyrano]

Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman rightfully get the coveted Nobel prize in medicine for their advancements that changed the field of vaccine development and understanding of mRNA and immune system interaction.

However to make it as a "significantly altered the path of pandemic" is non-sense.

Agree 100%. Whether mRNA vaccines actually work and if this research can lead to good results in the future is yet to be seen. As I posted few weeks ago, I got the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines. Never got covid. My teenage kids got them, but did catch covid multiple times, sometimes with moderate symptoms.

The interesting part is a court in South Africa recently ruled to make the covid vaccine contracts public. If you are interested in such legalese,the document is avl here for download.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... r-contract

A a first glance, its a totally one-sided contract with every possible rights and indemnities for Pfizer and very little leverage for the SA Govt.

The court ruled to make all vaccine contracts signed by SA govt public - with Pfizer (which contracts using its subsidiary BioNTech since Pfizer itself is banned in the EU for previous crimes), J&J, Serum Institute of India - SII and GAVI for Covax.

Here is a very basic analysis of these contrats:
https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p2112

I'll post my own analysis of the Pfizer contract when I get some time to read and make notes. I'm not a lawyer but I have negotiated many services supply contracts with F500 companies, and a rare litigation case or two, aided by teams of very competent (and very expensive !) lawyers, so hopefully I can read them well enough to understand.

EU commission has so far stonewalled all attempts to make their contracts public.

[putnanja]

"Health Canada has confirmed the presence of a Simian Virus 40 (SV40) DNA sequence in the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, which the manufacturer had not previously disclosed"

"Health Canada has confirmed the presence of a Simian Virus 40 (SV40) DNA sequence in the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, which the manufacturer had not previously disclosed"

"The polyomavirus Simian Virus 40, an oncogenic DNA virus, was previously removed from polio vaccines due to concerns about a link to cancers."

"Dr. Janci Lindsay, the director of toxicology and molecular biology for Toxicology Support Services, said plasmid DNA sequences, such as the SV40 enhancer, could be oncogenic and contribute to causing cancers."

"They hid them. So it's not just the fact that they're there, it's the fact that they were purposefully hidden from the regulators"

Full article is linked below

https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/exc ... ot-5513277

[ManSingh]

"Health Canada has confirmed the presence of a Simian Virus 40 (SV40) DNA sequence in the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, which the manufacturer had not previously disclosed"

"Health Canada has confirmed the presence of a Simian Virus 40 (SV40) DNA sequence in the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, which the manufacturer had not previously disclosed"

"The polyomavirus Simian Virus 40, an oncogenic DNA virus, was previously removed from polio vaccines due to concerns about a link to cancers."

"Dr. Janci Lindsay, the director of toxicology and molecular biology for Toxicology Support Services, said plasmid DNA sequences, such as the SV40 enhancer, could be oncogenic and contribute to causing cancers."

"They hid them. So it's not just the fact that they're there, it's the fact that they were purposefully hidden from the regulators"

Full article is linked below

https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/exc ... ot-5513277

Sensationalism. Hope this does not spread widely.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... na-people/

[Tanaji]

Amberji or any one else,

Now that some time has passed after the pandemic have their been and dispassionate studies that examined the effectiveness of lockdown strategies? Also, the effectiveness of vaccines in preventing the contracting of Covid variants (I am referring to getting the disease, not reducing severity of disease which I think is pretty much well established that it does..)

[disha]

Now that some time has passed after the pandemic have their been and dispassionate studies that examined the effectiveness of lockdown strategies?

Lockdown did not work. Was un-necessary and useless. Self-reporting and self-isolation would have given better outcomes. Tanaji please check previous posts. It has the links.

[Jay]

Lockdown did not work. Was un-necessary and useless. Self-reporting and self-isolation would have given better outcomes. Tanaji please check previous posts. It has the links.

They did work and were necessary and useful. Wonder how self-reporting and self-isolation would have been enforced.

[sanjaykumar]

There is a small study that seems to show gargling and nasal rinse with saline may help ameliorate Covid 19 virulence.


One poster, ? Chetak, had posted early in the course of the pandemic the use of hot water. I was dismissive but perhaps that suggestion demonstrated remarkable intuition.

[fanne]

Can I get more detail on what to be done? Someone had suggested how you take hot vapours from boiled water....are you suggesting add salt to that water. Do you have some links that I can forward to my doctor friends so that they are better infomed.

Thanks

[pravula]

I think he means just a sinus rinse. Something like this: https://shop.neilmed.com/collections/sinus-rinse

[ritesh]

Bhai log, do we have any cause for concern?
https://twitter.com/IndianTechGuide/sta ... 8018123220

[sanman]

[Jay]

what was the fauci lie, sanman ji?

[sanman]

what was the fauci lie, sanman ji?

Fauci is now saying that he was never leaning against Wuhan Lab Leak theory.

But past footage show how many times he publicly weighed in against the possibility that COVID came from Wuhan lab leak.

I personally feel it certainly came from lab leak. Otherwise, why did this virus come from Wuhan in particular, as opposed to any other place in China?

That means China & USA (NIH) are responsible for the 7 million deaths that occurred worldwide due to COVID.

Fauci used to defiantly insist that those challenging his views were challenging science itself.
Here's Dr Jay Bhattacharya calling him out on that:

[Jay]

what was the fauci lie, sanman ji?

Fauci is now saying that he was never leaning against Wuhan Lab Leak theory.

But past footage show how many times he publicly weighed in against the possibility that COVID came from Wuhan lab leak.

I personally feel it certainly came from lab leak. Otherwise, why did this virus come from Wuhan in particular, as opposed to any other place in China?

That means China & USA (NIH) are responsible for the 7 million deaths that occurred worldwide due to COVID.

Fauci used to defiantly insist that those challenging his views were challenging science itself.
Here's Dr Jay Bhattacharya calling him out on that:

Thanks for the write up, Sanman ji

[sanman]

Thanks for the write up, Sanman ji

Here's a similar statement of the obvious, done in a more humourous style by comedian John Stewart:

[bala]

The high threat level PL4 lab in Wuhan, China is owned by Glaxo, Smith Kline, which in turn is owned by Pfizer corp. Pfizer corp created a vaccine for the virus unleashed by Wuhan PL4 lab. Dr. Anthony Fauci is a huge promoter of Pfizer vaccine. Glaxo, Smith Kline is managed financially by BlackRock. BTW BlackRock manages Open Society Foundation of George Soros. Blackrock has a dispute with George Soros. Open Society Foundation is owned by German Winterthur company. The German Wintherthur company built the Wuhan lab in China. Another german Allianz company bought out the Wuhan lab from Winterthur company. The German Allianz company's largest shareholder is Vanguard company. Vanguard also owns Blackrock. Blackrock has a stake in Microsoft. Bill Gates has invested in Pfizer. Circle is complete and we now know the various characters behind the scene.

George Soros stake in German companies are under a cloud now. US is no more investing in China. China is down economically and the Wuhan lab contributed to the KungFlu covid disease which the world got affected.

India now is working on a Covid vaccine which can be stored in normal room temperatures and can be administered by a few drops into nasal/nose opening.

Around 44:00 in this YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP6wAeIGqMU

[sanman]

Fauci met with Wuhan Coronavirus lab officials n 2017 -- they discussed Coronavirus 'Gain of Function' research

[Aldonkar]

The high threat level PL4 lab in Wuhan, China is owned by Glaxo, Smith Kline, which in turn is owned by Pfizer corp. Pfizer corp created a vaccine for the virus unleashed by Wuhan PL4 lab. Dr. Anthony Fauci is a huge promoter of Pfizer vaccine. Glaxo, Smith Kline is managed financially by BlackRock. BTW BlackRock manages Open Society Foundation of George Soros. Blackrock has a dispute with George Soros. Open Society Foundation is owned by German Winterthur company. The German Wintherthur company built the Wuhan lab in China. Another german Allianz company bought out the Wuhan lab from Winterthur company. The German Allianz company's largest shareholder is Vanguard company. Vanguard also owns Blackrock. Blackrock has a stake in Microsoft. Bill Gates has invested in Pfizer. Circle is complete and we now know the various characters behind the scene.

George Soros stake in German companies are under a cloud now. US is no more investing in China. China is down economically and the Wuhan lab contributed to the KungFlu covid disease which the world got affected.

India now is working on a Covid vaccine which can be stored in normal room temperatures and can be administered by a few drops into nasal/nose opening.

Around 44:00 in this YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP6wAeIGqMU

This happens to be an area I have some knowlwdge of. A close member of my family has spent most of his working life working for GSK in the UK. GSK is an independent company (I own a few shares in it) and has no connection with Pfizer. A few years ago there was a proposal that Pfizer should buy GSK's over the counter (ie. without prescription) drugs but it did not happen. GSK is a British company and Pfizer is US. There is no connection between them or either Blackrock or George Soros.

GSK have subsidiaries in the US (the former Smith, Kline cos) but Pfizer does not have major subs in the UK. They did have R&D in the UK, but closed them just after their last major drug ( **** edit- a drug for erectile dysfunction) was developed. That was over 10 years ago. Since then Pfizer hav had limited success until they latched on the work of a couple of German-Turkish (Biontech) researchers and got their work through the Covid 19 trials.

All the stuff about Blackrock, Winthertur and Soros is something I know nothing about.

[sanman]

Chinese Lab Develops New Coronavirus Which Attacks Brain

[Jay]

Fauci met with Wuhan Coronavirus lab officials n 2017 -- they discussed Coronavirus 'Gain of Function' research

At the end of the day 'Gain of function' or rsearch similar to this is not new and has been for used by researchers for a couple of decades now. In fact, its one of the essential tools for anyone who wants to discover a antidote/vaccine for a virus. Now the question is, if COVID was not a natural event, is this something that was orchestrated or was this an accident that got out of hand.

[Tanaji]

I personally don’t think it was orchestrated. It definitely did escape from the lab though: that bat story from Wuhan market is implausible.

The question is why was Fauci and the US gov running experiments in a Chinese bio lab?

[sanman]

At the end of the day 'Gain of function' or rsearch similar to this is not new and has been for used by researchers for a couple of decades now. In fact, its one of the essential tools for anyone who wants to discover a antidote/vaccine for a virus. Now the question is, if COVID was not a natural event, is this something that was orchestrated or was this an accident that got out of hand.

It seems to have been an accident, as US, China and world in general were badly affected by this, and nobody would just want to cause a catastrophe for no reason. Especially when one can be found out and held accountable.

I personally don’t think it was orchestrated. It definitely did escape from the lab though: that bat story from Wuhan market is implausible.

The question is why was Fauci and the US gov running experiments in a Chinese bio lab?

Fauci & Co were trying to save costs by outsourcing to China.
They weren't mindful of how sloppy the Chinese were and negligent on safeguards.

[Cyrano]

There is absolutely no doubt this virus leaked from the Wuhan lab. I remember a Chinese source geo-mapping the very first outbreak cases and they nicely lined up along the metro line that runs from the lab to the city.EU

There is enough evidence that France and other EU countries helped set up the L4 lab, and US was funding the gain of function research for its own ends, plus the usual IP stealing and off the records work that Chinese companies collaborating with the west routinely do.

Under Trump, there were knee jerk reactions, lock downs, warp speeds, daily clown show pressers - it was a fcuking mess. Fauci played it as he was instructed, everyone was trying to save their asses. It might have cost Trump the election, lot of middle-undecided voters became ""never trumpers" in their mind. The mess continued under Biden, until the pandemic itself weakened and blew over like some tropical hurricane.

Thats why Reps today dont want to go after Biden for covid mismanagement, and Dems also dont want to talk about it.

Pharma co.s made a killing, as they were faced by inept and panicky govts world over.
The latest reports seem to say that the mRNA vaccines have lots and lots of nucleotide sequences that have nothing to do with spike protein and seem to indicate hurried splicing - to be the first to put something on the market and encash max govt money - and poor QC of production lots. Since they negotiated sovereign indemnity, whats the risk? They could just ship sterile water and we would all be none the wiser.

At this point, no one really knows if the vaccines worked as intended, only partially - to what extent, or not at all, and WHY. I'm not sure we will ever know, I suspect even the pharma co.s or govts only have a partial idea, and (conspiracy) theories will continue for decades to come.

EU has trashed billions of Pfizer and Moderna doses, after having ordered a gigantic amount of doses, thats a corruption scandal that the MSM has put a lid on despite ongoing court cases against Ursula VDL.