Hamas attack.on Israel. Oct 2023

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 20 Oct 2023 22:48

https://defence-blog.com/hamas-drone-strikes-israeli-merkava-tank/

Drone based rpg7 strike on Merkava tank near Gaza

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 21 Oct 2023 01:09

Yayavar wrote: ↑20 Oct 2023 22:42
chetak wrote: ↑19 Oct 2023 21:47

bala saar,

hakenkreuz = = hooked cross
Even now Germans say "hakekreuz". They do not say swastika.
The association with swastika and tarnishing is all due to the angrez and umreeki. They could have continued to call it hooked cross. However swastika was popular in America pre WW2. So can't say if it was deliberate maliciousness

The common narrative is that Hitler invented the word Swastika or that it is present in his writings. This is untrue. The original German version of Mein Kampf doesn’t contain the word ‘ swastika’ at all, only ‘Hakenkreuz’ meaning hooked cross.

the first (abridged) translation of Mein Kampf was done by Englishman E.T.S Dugdale in 1931. Dugdale, who was fluent in German and had done work for the German government, accurately translated the relevant passages and never once used the word Swastika.

So how and when did the Hakenkreuz become the swastika! ah ha, enter the perfidious Brits or rather , a Brit. A catholic priest at that.

Catholic Priest and journalist James Vincent Murphy, published the first complete translation of Mein Kampf in 1939. Murphy deliberately mistranslated Hakenkreuz into Swastika while leaving other German words either in original form or translating them properly in English.

So how does Swastika (a Sanskrit word used by Hindus, Buddhists and Jains only) then become the English translation of Hakenkreuz?

One cannot help but conclude that Murphy, being an ordained priest, didn’t want the evil Nazi symbol to be associated in any way with the sacred hooked cross of Christianity, and thus deliberately mistranslated Hakenkreuz into Swastika.

Nakagaki admits in his book: “Whether intentional or not, these translators protected the Christian cross and damaged the Eastern religious swastika.”

The scale of the damage is such that a symbol used by close to 1.5 Billion people in the world in their religious and cultural practices (a symbol that literally means well-being and peace), is wrongfully associated with evil, death and destruction.

The foresight and determination of the Brits to protect their own is admirable.

In fact the abbey became a ‘pilgrimage site for Neo Nazis to the extent that the abbey went to the extreme extent to permanently removing the Hakenkreuz. Reference. https://www.nachrichten.at/oberoesterre ... 67,1968630

So it was and continues to be deliberate maliciousness

I visited Lambach monastery personally for this and this reason only.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Oct 2023 01:17

bala · Post by **bala** » 21 Oct 2023 02:38

rahulm wrote:James Vincent Murphy deliberately mistranslated Hakenkreuz into Swastika while leaving other German words either in original form or translating them properly in English.

Dhanyawad, Rahul M Ji. In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Vincent_Murphy the following are noted:

Murphy was then asked by the Ministry of Propaganda to translate Hitler's Mein Kampf. During the Czech crisis Murphy left Berlin. His wife, Mary, said she would go in his stead.

She urged Horst Seyferth, the official she met and knew well, to give her a carbon copy of Murphy's translation of Mein Kampf. He blanched, “Do you think I want to be put up against a wall and shot? I have a wife and two daughters”. Mary replied, “Of course you won’t be shot. Besides, you can’t prevent the book coming out in English eventually. Some Americans are preparing a translation right now. You know that my husband’s version is an accurate and faithful rendering of the text”.

In December two American firms defied the German prohibition (of not publishing English translation of Mein Kampf) and announced their intention to publish complete versions. Hurst & Blackett then decided to go ahead with the Murphy translation; it came out on 20 March 1939.

{not clear whether murphy introduced swastika or publisher Hurst&Blackett did}

Also this:

James Murphy was in Saint Bernard's Seminary, Rochester, New York, where from autumn 1906 he taught rhetoric, but although regarded as a man of the highest talent, he was dismissed in April 1907 for negligence in discharging his duties.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 21 Oct 2023 06:37

Ground invasion hasnt started yet, this was never going to be easy but there are 2 complications

1. Large no of Hostages
2. Bidenwa's domestic politics

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 21 Oct 2023 07:24

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 7937121730

#BREAKING: Israel to launch Three Phase Ops in Gaza to eliminate Hamas Islamist terrorists, Israel’s Minister for Defence
@yoavgallant
has confirmed.

“There will be three stages. We are now in the first stage – a military campaign that currently includes strikes, and will later include maneuvering, with the objective of neutralizing terrorists and destroying Hamas infrastructure.”

“The second phase, an intermediate one, will require operations at lower intensity, with the objective of eliminating ‘pockets of resistance’ (remaining terror hotspots).”

“The third phase will require the removal of Israel’s responsibility for life in the Gaza strip, and the establishment of a new security reality for the citizens of Israel.”

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 21 Oct 2023 08:02

I think Israel is waiting for background negotiations going on to release the hostages. The primary objective of ground offensive of Israel is to secure release of hostages, as mentioned by Israel itself. They have said they will invade to get the hostages released. If the hostages are all released , there will be no ground offensive. But Israel will hunt down all the Hamas operatives wherever they are. Hamas knows it, and that's why they are delaying releasing hostages. They are hoping for Israel's invasion, hoping it turns into backlash against Israel .

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 21 Oct 2023 09:28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrP3QWOdps4

John Mearsheimer: Dark Times Ahead for Israel
6 yr old video

bala · Post by **bala** » 22 Oct 2023 00:07

Game Behind the Israel War. Global Deep States Plan after Israel - Maj Gen Rajiv Narayanan & Aadi Achint

What is the Game Behind the Israel? War Global Deep States Plan after Israel. Who is next on the list Iran or China?

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 22 Oct 2023 01:24

Balaji, for those who dont have 90 mins to spare on the video, can you post a small summary?

bala · Post by **bala** » 22 Oct 2023 03:43

Yes, Tanaji here is a summary of YT on Maj Gen Rajiv Narayanan & Aadi Achint:

Rajiv Narayanan has an interesting take. The new world order is being shaped. There is a crack in the deep state in the US. Bidenwa is battling his State Dept which is stuck in old timers who want to perpetuate the old model. The left/wokes/islamic influencers are part of his support base, which is diametrically opposed to the Trump faction. But Bidenwa realizes that a) China is not exactly a friend of US, b) middle east oil influence is going to change with the green movement/alternates c) radicalization is really a disease and a nuisance. Based on these factors Bidenwa has co-opted India as a pole (note the G20 success, India sheparding the Global South, IMEC, QUAD, close cooperation in joint exercises, GE aircraft nod for India and much more). Bidenwa's administration also has a huge number of US Desi people. Also MBS of Saudi is charting his own path (he is quite opposed to the mullahs and his relationship with Bidenwa is in doubt).

China, Iran, Turkey are definitely on the radar to be shown their place in the world. Israel and US are gunning to take down Iran and the hardliners. China pretends to be superpower but its economic clout is being removed, its military has not fought a war since 1979. China's Navy has numbers but they are yet to bravely take an armada of ships out in the open and one of its nuclear submarines sunk killing everyone on board. China's Taiwan belligerence has been noted and the US will prevent any such adventure. China involvement with Hamas seals the fate of China.

India is plagued with multiple fissures. The Brown sahebs are the echo chamber of the Anglo-Saxon breed. The hindustanis are still in nostalgia with some Mughal illusions. The true Bharatiyas are waking up to their Indic identity (which has been in vogue for millenia prior to the invasions). The new generation with education, wealth and some leadership will wake up. The Dharmic identity is not about aggrandizement but to take everyone in Vasudev Kutumbakkam mode. India is well placed to be a leading anchor point in the global order. The global south is looking for a leader and India fits this role perfectly. With the global south's raw resources there is an economic angle.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 22 Oct 2023 16:53

I've gotta say -- this much delayed invasion of Gaza is sure giving Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran a lot of time to prepare and create new traps (as if they didn't have enough preparatory time already, in orchestrating such a sophisticated pre-planned attack)

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Oct 2023 19:14

Each day also means Hamas is running out of food and water, while constantly expecting an Inasion, they maybe zombies by the time invasion happens. Israel also needs to prepare. Hamas was well prepared on 7 Oct 23. Without constant resuplly, thier capability will only decrease.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 22 Oct 2023 19:36

Aditya_V wrote: ↑22 Oct 2023 19:14 Each day also means Hamas is running out of food and water, while constantly expecting an Inasion, they maybe zombies by the time invasion happens. Israel also needs to prepare. Hamas was well prepared on 7 Oct 23. Without constant resuplly, thier capability will only decrease.

Hamas is just stealing any aid thrown to Gazans. They are hostage-takers, not just of Israeli captives but also Gazans in general.

Israel has to be concerned about the hostages too, who also need food & water.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 22 Oct 2023 22:11

* Post Deleted. This is Muslim Brotherhood Propaganda *

Kati, be careful with what you post.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 22 Oct 2023 22:40

India sends essential aid to Gaza amid all the dangerous conditions.

Palestine's envoy to India, Adnan Abu Al-Hajia thanks India for the aid .

An IAF C-17 flight carrying nearly 6.5 tonnes of medical aid and 32 tonnes of disaster relief material for the people of Palestine departs for El-Arish airport in Egypt.

The material includes essential life-saving medicines, surgical items, tents, sleeping bags, tarpaulins, sanitary utilities, water purification tablets among other necessary items.

Israel also calls India, it's best friend and strongest ally.
Proud of India!

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 22 Oct 2023 22:48

India will probably be the "stabilizer" for the whole world as it increases its economic, military and political muscle. The one nation acceptable to everyone , maybe except one !!

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 22 Oct 2023 23:02

Many thanks Balaji

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 22 Oct 2023 23:11

Deleted by author -- wrong thread.

isubodh · Post by **isubodh** » 22 Oct 2023 23:16

Israel has Iron Dome which is purely a defensive system. Do Israel don't have anything to calculate the trajectory of incoming rockets and then fire back to flatten that area.
The kind DoS attack would have been suppressed soon after enough if there was counter fire destroying all the rocket launch infra.

Did Israel not think of this or its not possible?

morem · Post by **morem** » 23 Oct 2023 00:26

No doubt they have drones with live view , Gaza is apparently 36 x 10 km in area, a couple of drones should be able identify in real time, no need to calculate even.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 23 Oct 2023 08:45

Aditya_V wrote: ↑22 Oct 2023 19:14 Each day also means Hamas is running out of food and water, while constantly expecting an Inasion, they maybe zombies by the time invasion happens. Israel also needs to prepare. Hamas was well prepared on 7 Oct 23. Without constant resuplly, thier capability will only decrease.

With a lot of the population of North Gaza moving to the South, Hamas will also use each day to plant IEDs and booby traps.
Israel cannot mobilize 300,000 reservists indefinitely, as world opinion (in favor of a ceasefire) will move against Israel as civilian deaths
increase and the Israeli domestic economy will be hit.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 23 Oct 2023 08:47

isubodh wrote: ↑22 Oct 2023 23:16 Israel has Iron Dome which is purely a defensive system. Do Israel don't have anything to calculate the trajectory of incoming rockets and then fire back to flatten that area.
The kind DoS attack would have been suppressed soon after enough if there was counter fire destroying all the rocket launch infra.

Did Israel not think of this or its not possible?

If Hamas fires a rocket from the balcony of a building, or from a vehicle that then parks in a garage of a building, the counter battery fire
from Israel will flatten the building with its residents in it - which is pretty much what is happening.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Oct 2023 08:54

isubodh wrote: ↑22 Oct 2023 23:16 Israel has Iron Dome which is purely a defensive system. Do Israel don't have anything to calculate the trajectory of incoming rockets and then fire back to flatten that area.
The kind DoS attack would have been suppressed soon after enough if there was counter fire destroying all the rocket launch infra.

Did Israel not think of this or its not possible?

1) Iron Dome has the ability to calculate the point of impact of the rockets. It will fire, only if, the rocket is calculated to impact on a populated or valuable target.

2) the IDF has the ability to calculate the point of origin for the rockets as well. However, you only have to look at the "rocket launchers", to understand the futility of targeting the point of origin of the rockets.

Because, Hamas can commandeer Any old balcony, Roof top, Room window, Mosque courtyard, School ground, Hospital parking lot, and shoot the rockets.

The response is invariably going to result in collateral damage. Further, cause trouble for Israel in the western world.

They can ignore the Muslim's. But western world is a different issue.

https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5912189/y ... nt-have-to

Dating back to 2014.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/12/24 ... 230119628/

Dating back to 2008.

These things are cheap. No more than a few hundred $.

Can be assembled at home using very simple tool and raw materials.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 23 Oct 2023 20:14

Where is this conflict going???
What is Israel waiting for?? American expeditionary force to be assembled opposite the Gaza Strip on the sea??
Will Unkil commit to boots on the ground??
I am not a military man but this western concept of bomb to stone before I set foot in your land is becoming passé
All it’s achieved is condemnation due to civilian casualties destruction of infrastructure and most importantly loss of local support to your cause
Be it Iraq or Afghanistan or here what has it accomplished
WWII concept of bombing cities and destroying infrastructure is being carried on ad naseum
Agree Hamas are crafty and have insinuated amongst the civilians but this daily pounding for 10 days or more has not achieved much except making the Gazan resolve sterner
Yes we have faced terror attacks but our military tactics be it cross border attack or Balakote has been much more effective
Given the blurring of terror modules and regular forces in the Islamic world what is the way forward for military planners for future attacks

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 23 Oct 2023 20:31

After 9/11, it took US a month to attack Afghanistan and a month afterwards to launch ground invasion of Afghanistan. It is barely two weeks now.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 23 Oct 2023 20:50

Guptaji
With due respect Afghanistan is not next to New Mexico and hence the sheer distance and the logistics I understand but a armed force standing around the fence is what I don’t understand

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Oct 2023 21:17

SRajesh,

The answer to your question is in understanding what Gaza is and the structure of the Israeli defence forces.

Without understanding both, people will keep on asking the questions that you are asking.

hgupta · Post by **hgupta** » 23 Oct 2023 21:22

SRajesh wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 20:50 Guptaji
With due respect Afghanistan is not next to New Mexico and hence the sheer distance and the logistics I understand but a armed force standing around the fence is what I don’t understand

Israel is facing war on 2.5 fronts. Israel needs to re-orient its forces and ensure that its forces have adequate supplies and ammunition to fight on a 2.5 front war the same way that India had to reorient its forces during Kargil War to ensure that its forces was adequately stationed in areas that would protect India's flanks. It took India more than a month to do that before India could finally launch operations to retake the Kargil hills and that was with Indian forces right next to Pakistan.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 23 Oct 2023 22:07

Sirji
This is comparing apples to oranges
Kahan flat sapat Gaza and kahan Kargill heights
A trained dug in army on heights to terrorist hiding in tunnels and civilian areas

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 23 Oct 2023 22:35

SRajesh wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 20:14 Where is this conflict going???
What is Israel waiting for?? American expeditionary force to be assembled opposite the Gaza Strip on the sea??
Will Unkil commit to boots on the ground??
I am not a military man but this western concept of bomb to stone before I set foot in your land is becoming passé
All it’s achieved is condemnation due to civilian casualties destruction of infrastructure and most importantly loss of local support to your cause
Be it Iraq or Afghanistan or here what has it accomplished
WWII concept of bombing cities and destroying infrastructure is being carried on ad naseum
Agree Hamas are crafty and have insinuated amongst the civilians but this daily pounding for 10 days or more has not achieved much except making the Gazan resolve sterner
Yes we have faced terror attacks but our military tactics be it cross border attack or Balakote has been much more effective
Given the blurring of terror modules and regular forces in the Islamic world what is the way forward for military planners for future attacks

Feels like things have reached a tipping point, where Biden Whitehouse keeps leaning harder and harder on Israel to delay its attack. Meanwhile US keeps bringing more aircraft/ships/assets into the region, with the threat of hitting Iran when Hezbollah starts seriously attacking Israel.

I still feel like this would be a good time for us to do Pokhran-3, since US would be badly needing us to do LECISMOA or whatever it's called.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 Oct 2023 23:39

SRajesh wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 20:14 Where is this conflict going???
....

Straight into Iran.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 24 Oct 2023 00:03

NRao wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 23:39
SRajesh wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 20:14 Where is this conflict going???
....

Straight into Iran.

Too many players in the field., this is not just Hamas vs Israel .. this thread needs to renamed to the Middle East conflict , this would reset the geopolitical balance between different powers . Turkey, Qatar , Saudi, Iran, Syria , Egypt, Russia and US all are in play with different end games

This conflict will go on like Ukraine war, unless Israel realizes its ground objectives as fast as it can.. there are many actors who would want it prolonged under the garb of hooman rights etc

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 24 Oct 2023 01:03

Thank you Drsaab
The objective is getting blurred as far as Israel is concerned
In the quest for ‘Redrawing borders’ as BiBi said have they given the Bhaghdoor to Unkil???
Like the Archduke murder will this precipitate a WWIII because if Ruski and Chin get involved then our hands will be forced given the paltu K on our western border will be activated

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 24 Oct 2023 01:38

NRao wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 23:39
SRajesh wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 20:14 Where is this conflict going???
....

Straight into Iran.

Missing Dick Channey these days

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 24 Oct 2023 03:47

2 aircraft carriers in the region. Russia sees threat to them from those carriers. So, they are nervous.

This whole thing has set off a chain of actions and reactions. It is building up to be a powder keg and wrong move or miscalculation or intentions will blow this up in no time.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Oct 2023 08:20

Potentially Terror Supporting Detector

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 Oct 2023 08:22

Here is a reading of the tea leaves:

This is simply a way to neuter Iran before they Ayatollah's secure a nuke or two. A nice GWI style Operation Desert Storm II will do it:
NATO
Israel
Gulf and Arabs states

All hate Iran. It is the only one along with Turkey to whine about IMEC.

Russia can be bought off by dumping Zelensky and allowing takeover of Donbass + guarantee of keeping Ukr out of NATO. May be Russia will extract a larger price but why not? Wonlee China might make noises for Iran, but that's about all. The ROW doesn't really matter (if they even care).

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 24 Oct 2023 08:54

SRajesh wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 20:50 Guptaji
With due respect Afghanistan is not next to New Mexico and hence the sheer distance and the logistics I understand but a armed force standing around the fence is what I don’t understand

There are points to be made for both a quick mobilization and the need to take time.

Israel's military doctrine has been predicated on a quick mobilization of its citizen army. However, this has fallen into disuse in recent years. It is partly a reliance on hi tech (to replace manpower) and reduction in the number of people being conscripted and then in the reserve. Also, reduction in training, at a time when mastering new tech needs time. This reduces field training.

Israel has never mobilized 300,000 + people (which is its entire active reserve) since the 1973 war.
The mobilization showed up a lot of shortages even in basic kit of soldiers (there was a lot of derision in the West when Russia had the same problems) It has taken time to get them supplied. That time would also be needed for refresher training (Russia took months for re-training their newly mobilized manpower).

Israel's confidence in its intel took a beating on 7th Oct. It will probably need time to understand Hamas positions, strength etc and then refine their operational plans.

On the other hand, every day of delay will:
- Increase pressure for a ceasefire, because more civilians are being killed in air strikes.
- Enable Hamas to plant more IEDs and booby traps.
- Hurt the civilian economy because manpower is at the front.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 24 Oct 2023 09:03

vinod wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 03:47 2 aircraft carriers in the region. Russia sees threat to them from those carriers. So, they are nervous.

This whole thing has set off a chain of actions and reactions. It is building up to be a powder keg and wrong move or miscalculation or intentions will blow this up in no time.

If the carriers are hanging around while there is a full fledged war in Gaza and possibly a lower level one with Hezbollah (which does not cross US red lines) as is currently the case, the US will look silly. Deterrence works as long as it deters.