India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[vimal]

The GoI is not responsible for actions of gangsters.

Would the US govt accept responsibility for the hostile and terrorist activities of david coleman headley, who is indisputably a US citizen, who operated in India of behalf of hostile foreign governments tied to the 26/11 attacks as positively confirmed by US sources

'Assassination plots’: US inputs legally presentable, got nothing specific from Canada, says Indian envoy

This is the first time that a senior Indian official has drawn a distinction between what US and Canada have shared with India, regarding alleged assassination plots against Khalistan separatists in these two countries.

Washington has shared “legally presentable” inputs with Delhi on “Indian connections” in the alleged assassination plot of Khalistan separatist Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, but Ottawa has shared only “allegations” linked to separatist Hardeep Singh Nijjar’s killing, Indian High Commissioner to Canada Sanjay Kumar Verma has said.

He also said that the Indian connections referred to by the US are not “Government of India connections”, but are linked to “people” in India.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... g-9044907/

So they want Indian government to waste its time and resources to find petty criminals while their citizens openly make threats of blowing up planes which BTW is a criminal act in the USA. Even alluding to crime or incitement will land you in jail but then pannu is a useful tool.

[Manish_P]

So they want Indian government to waste its time and resources to find petty criminals while their citizens openly make threats of blowing up planes which BTW is a criminal act in the USA. Even alluding to crime or incitement will land you in jail but then pannu is a useful tool.

Does that law state any airplane or does it specifically state US owned airplanes?

Added later - found it i think - 'U.S. Code § 32 - Destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities'
Imprisonment term of 5 years.

Am not a lawyer. There would be loopholes i suppose...

[eklavya]

Justice Department Announces Charges in Connection with Foiled Plot to Assassinate U.S. Citizen in New York City

https://www.justice.gov/media/1326501/dl?inline

[chetak]

Justice Department Announces Charges in Connection with Foiled Plot to Assassinate U.S. Citizen in New York City

https://www.justice.gov/media/1326501/dl?inline

eklavya ji,


this is the obummer gang with shillary and her anti India mafia in the loop


music by blinken bhai's barmy beats, to cover up for the failed strike by the kaneda hit man turdeau


lyrics by deep state

[vijayk]

https://twitter.com/aravind/status/1729912194043933169

Aravind @aravind
After their operation to use Canada as a proxy to frame India for "extra judicial" killings failed, the US has exposed itself and coming out openly now to frame Modi Govt and threaten sanctions to cause economic issues before elections. From now on, we can expect US controlled media to go on a frenzy in trying to generate a "killer Modi" narrative. Need to watch Indian orgs and think tanks closely on who's on the US payroll. Those who's on US / US proxies payroll will definitely start blaming Modi's government for bad foreign policy and failed intelligence operations as if the charges are true - feeding the opposition. Canadian allegations spectacularly backfired in the beginning. So the US is now using the pause in Israel war to hit Modi govt by itself. Let's see how this back fires for the US. IMO, Indian govt should seed intense anger and frustration among Indian public at the US for its hypocrisy and interference. PM Modi can sure do it with just a speech. That will show the US the long-term costs involved in trying to interfere with India, its foreign policy, and its elections trying to remove / weaken PM Modi using such strategy. Well, some US deals can also be canceled in favor of Russia or others.

[NRao]

The neocons have only one gear. They are fighting for their survival. Literally. Across the globe. Ukraine. Canada. Qatar. Bangladesh. Soon Israel. Global South. ....... And, to make matters worse they may not come back next year.

[vijayk]

The neocons have only one gear. They are fighting for their survival. Literally. Across the globe. Ukraine. Canada. Qatar. Bangladesh. Soon Israel. Global South. ....... And, to make matters worse they may not come back next year.

They are literally itching for World War 3 to reduce the world to ashes and reset

[Y I Patel]

CC1 == Chota Chetan allwayz #1

[A_Gupta]

Who is Nikhil Gupta, age 52, named in the indictment? (the alleged plot to kill Pannun)?

Via the NYT:

Adrienne Watson, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council, said Wednesday that after the Biden administration learned that Mr. Gupta had “credibly indicated” he had conspired with an employee of the Indian government, the White House engaged “in direct conversations with the Indian government at the highest levels to express our concern.”

“The government of India was clear with us that they were taking this seriously and would investigate,” Ms. Watson said in a statement. “We are providing information to the government of India to aid in their internal investigation. We will continue to expect accountability.”

President Biden directed William J. Burns, the C.I.A. director, to visit India to discuss the suspected assassination plot and press the Indian government to hold those involved responsible, according to U.S. officials familiar with the events. Mr. Biden himself raised the issue directly with Prime Minister Narendra Modi when they met at the Group of 20 summit in September.

...
Federal prosecutors in New York said that the plot involved several accomplices, including the Indian government official, who had a background in law enforcement.

That individual, who was not identified, is accused of recruiting Mr. Gupta, who prosecutors say then hired a hit man to kill Mr. Pannun and provided personal information about him, including his home address in New York City and details about his daily activities.

That for-hire killer, however, turned out to be an “undercover U.S. law enforcement officer,” according to the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Mr. Gupta was detained by authorities in the Czech Republic in late June, according to the Southern District. He faces charges of “murder-for-hire and conspiracy to commit murder-for-hire,” prosecutors said, with each count carrying a potential sentence of 10 years in prison.

[vijayk]

The neocons want Jihadi Govt in BD and Jihadi oriented Italian Pappu in India.

I think they are setting up scenario after Dec 3 results. If Pappu shows any weakness, they will go full throttle.

[NRao]

WaPo, front page, lead article:

An Indian government employee who described himself as a “senior field officer” responsible for intelligence ordered the assassination in New York, U.S. prosecutors alleged.

And, I thought Justinder was the last in that tribe!!

IF Biden really spoke to Modi, during G-20 visit, about this, this neocon dog better have some bite. Else Modi could capture 350-400 seats, get a seat on the UNSC, .... and bury these yahoos before Nov next year.

[vera_k]

Google search reveals another award outstanding from India for Pannu.

BJP leader offers $100,000 reward for blackening Gurpatwant Pannu’s face

[A_Gupta]

"India Opens an Investigation After U.S. Says It Disrupted a Plot to Kill Sikh Separatist Leader"
https://time.com/6340620/india-investig ... eparatist/

{External Affairs Ministry spokesman Arindam Bagchi said} "that the Indian government formed a high-level inquiry committee on Nov. 18 to look into all the aspects of the matter."

[vera_k]

That date is interesting. 3 days later the NIA opened a case against Pannu for the video threatening Air India.

NIA books terrorist Pannu under UAPA for threatening passengers, Air India

[A_Gupta]

Per PGurus, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYxEfSfRVCY, and if I heard correctly, the alleged Indian official is allegedly CRPF, based in Gujarat.

[chanakyaa]

Indictment was publicly made available in a press release on Nov. 29th on US Justice website. The PDF is at the bottom of the article. PDF has more details than the article.

U.S. v. Gupta Indictment

[vimal]

Indictment was publicly made available in a press release on Nov. 29th on US Justice website. The PDF is at the bottom of the article. PDF has more details than the article.

U.S. v. Gupta Indictment

Mr. Williams praised the outstanding investigative work of the DEA’s New York Drug Enforcement Task Force and the Counterintelligence Division of the FBI’s New York Field Office. Mr. Williams also thanked the DEA’s Special Operations Division, the DEA’s Vienna Country Office, the FBI’s Prague Country Office, the Department of Justice’s National Security Division, the Department of Justice’s Office of International Affairs, and the Czech Republic’s National Drug Headquarters for their assistance. The DEA’s New York Drug Enforcement Task Force comprises agents and task force officers of the DEA, New York City Police Department, and the New York State Police.

[Pratyush]

Henry Kissinger is finally dead.

[g.sarkar]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67574495
Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger dies aged 100
Bernd Debusmann Jr,, BBC News, Washington
11/30/2023
Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who played a pivotal and polarising role in US foreign policy during the Cold War, has died at the age of 100
He served as America's top diplomat and national security adviser during the Nixon and Ford administrations.
Despite leaving office in the mid-1970s, he continued to be consulted by generations of leaders for decades.
The German-born former diplomat died at his home in Connecticut.
Wednesday night's statement from Kissinger Associates, the policy consultancy he founded, did not give a cause of death.
Former US President George W Bush led tributes, saying the US had "lost one of the most dependable and distinctive voices on foreign affairs".
President Richard Nixon's daughters, Tricia Nixon Cox and Julie Nixon Eisenhower, said that Kissinger's life story was "so unique - and so thoroughly American".
"Henry Kissinger will long be remembered for his many achievements in advancing the cause of peace," the statement said. "But it was his character that we will never forget."
......
Gautam
I had some opinions to share, but on the second thought, why speak ill of the dead?

[vijayk]

https://twitter.com/aravind/status/1730079108867211390

The US run attack on Modi Govt using just the Khalistani issue will be three pronged:

Massive media propaganda during the Israel-Hamas pause which frees up air times that "Modi is killer" the likes of which they did against Saudi crown prince.

Instigating local politics on three different themes: "Modi bungled spy operation putting Indian officers at risk." "Modi derailed India US relations." "Modi is weak against the US no strong response like Canada." Look out for politicians, organizations, think tanks, and agents who use these lines.

Actual threat of sanctions on India, Indian companies (may be even linking them to the assassination), hit job on economy, rupee, and markets causing economic hardship by March 2024 - as this is the sure fire way to weaken and remove Modi govt to put in place a malleable coalition govt with their agent party (which was created in 2010s) inside to run the country.

[bala]

Both Nixon and Kissinger have the huge debt of karma - slaughter of innocent civilians of BD nation done via their henchman the Pukes. Karma is a bitch. Their not too bright China tangle is now in shambles - China siding Russia in Ukraine and now a total decouple by the US in terms of economy and manufacturing. Disaster of the highest order! China now threatens the whole world including Taiwan.

[disha]

Henry Kissinger is finally dead.

He completed all of his prarabdha karma as a human. He worked so hard against India and for Cheen and now seeing how Cheen is backstabbing US, India on the rise and the confusion in US Strategic vision. Whatever he worked for, has come to a naught. May his soul rest in pieces.

[ricky_v]

remember the time when posters were optimistic of a us policy led by indian demands, i remember, good times, regardless, the us has and will continue to be a country of disingenuous cun*ts until it gets muttified out of its gene pool, demographic admixture, that is the only way to trip this beast

also people must understand that this is nothing personal, the top dog must always the top ashole, par exemplar.. pardon the french

[Cyrano]

Its OK, since its not French

The huge mistake of western universalism as epitomised by Kissinger is "projection". This failed in China, failed in various wars they waged in Vietnam, Korea, ME, but they still fail to even acknowledge it, much less reconsider.

They will fail again wrt a resurgent Bharat. Only Bharat's non-western world view doesn't offer the same level of purchase as did the Communist or Islamic ideologies. The west cannot outright wage a war against Bharat, especially given the deep people to people ties in the managerial and increasingly at elite levels. (Even Xi seems to have woken up to this lately and is demanding 50K American students each year etc. but the trust deficit it way too high).

Since an outright attack on Bharat's Civilisational capital is not possible, we will see increasing attempts to control Bharat using economic, diplomatic, political attacks. But Bharat will be too smart for all that, and I have no doubt, in this Amrit Kaal, we will slowly de-poison the west while leaving the fangs in there which will (though I hope not) help the west continue to bite itself and its old enemies.

[Deans]

I wrote this on the Pannu case in another forum:

decided to share my thoughts after seeing a lot of flagellation among readers of the various posts suggesting that we were `caught' trying to assassinate a US citizen. By extension, RAW/Our babus/Politicians etc were useless and we have hurt relations with an ally.

The reality is more nuanced. My thoughts.If we were behind this, then we were also behind the killings of Anti India elements in Pakistan (17 in the past year, and Nijjar in Canada , none of which were solved, let alone traced to us). I elaborate on this in my blog post:
https://rpdeans.blogspot.com/2023/11/is ... ossad.html

If we got this result, we are the most successful intel agency in recent times. The 5 eyes intel bycomparison concluded that the Afghan govt will last for years after the US withdrawal and in Mar 22,concluded that 90% of Russian armaments were lost in Ukraine - hence the decision to fight on and reject talks.

On the Pannu matter, my thoughts are:

After 9/11, it was a serious offense in the US to threaten to blow up aircraft. Pannu did so, in writing (and not after a few drinks in the bar - which will also get you jail). He should have got a jail term under US law. Instead he was given protection. Similarly, Nijjar broke Canadian law by brandishing a AK47 and threatening our diplomats. His son said he had been meeting with Canadian intel prior to his death. Were these 2, assets of US & Canada, to be used against us at a suitable time ?

An American citizen and supposedly former CIA man David Coleman Headley, was complicit in the murder of 166 Indian citizens in the 26/11 attacks. He has not been extradited to India. In fact we aredenied access to him. Is it because he will spill the beans about US knowledge / involvement in attacks against India. I am not suggesting one act of terror justifies another. My point is that the US (or Canada) don't have any high moral ground here.

Canadian Intel seems to be either incompetent, or has rogue elements - google the `2 Davids' case.Canada had insisted that China had wrongly arrested 2 businessmen (and not following rule of law etc.) whereas in reality, at least 1 David was a spy (as per a confession in Canada). Similarly, in the Nijjar case, they seem to have willfully declined to follow up on allegations (with proof) of supporting terrorism made against several Sikh extremists by the Indian govt.

In the chargesheet re: Gupta made in the New York court, we are supposed to believe that Gupta introduced himself as a known drug dealer and gun runner (his `hitman' would have got $100,000 merely to take that info to the authorities) and tell a stranger (in a business obsessed with discretion) all details of who recruited him. If Gupta was a drug dealer and gun runner, he would almost certainly have dealings with Afg-Pak and therefore be known to the ISI.

If I was the ISI and wanted to get even after India repeatedly made fools of the agency by killing their protected assets, I would do exactly what the chargesheet suggests. Co-opt Gupta in an assassination plot (in return for him running drugs from Pak to India). Make sure the info is leaked, ask an ISI agent in Delhi to send mails to Gupta from a location where this so called Indian agent had an office. There was too much unnecessary detail in the messages.

If however, there is really a serving Govt official involved in writing to Gupta, than the US is spying on our govt - as maybe the case with Nijjar and they need to clarify this.

It is fairly easy to check if the govt has dropped Gupta's drugs case in Gujarat (if so, when) as a quid pro quo for Gupta contacting a hit man and - as the chargesheet says.

Finally, there's a difference between killing someone, attempting to kill someone and plotting to kill someone (which might well be a theoratical exercise). Threatening to blow up an aircraft is a more serious charge than planning to kill the person who made the threat.

[NRao]

"Reality of Latest Anti India Attack I Maj Gen Rajiv Narayanan"

49 minutes of serious fun. MG RN has taken this indictment apart.

I think Neocons just gave Modi a few more seats.

[A_Gupta]

What the FBI has is Nikhil Gupta who tried to contract out a murder to a FBI informant/undercover person, what he told that person (kill Pannun, Nijjar is also a target), and what he told them post-arrest.

Now, if I was arrested for something, I could always say "Joe Biden told me to do it, when we met in July". That is clearly incredible. To be credible, Nikhil Gupta has to have fingered some actually existing person but about whom the Americans can't find out much; in particular, could this person have spoken to Nikhil Gupta when this conversation is supposed to have happened. Second, they haven't been able to trace the money to this person. If they could have, they would have indicted this person without asking India to investigate, and not left him/her unnamed.

In particular I think that the Americans cannot yet show that Nikhil Gupta has given them some truth and is not lying.

[A_Gupta]

Just to point out that having one side of phone messages and calls proves nothing.
e.g.,
https://app.spoofcard.com/apps
"GET A VIRTUAL PHONE NUMBER IN SECONDS WITH OUR IOS & ANDROID APPS"

Added: the plot is so comical that it could only have been devised by a Khalistani.

[Vayutuvan]

...
I had some opinions to share, but on the second thought, why speak ill of the dead?

Gautam ji, Kissinger case is an exception. please reconsider.

[vimal]

So Pannu is a drug dealer like his Kannadian brothers. These killings now make sense as cartels are eliminating competition.

[Deans]

What the FBI has is Nikhil Gupta who tried to contract out a murder to a FBI informant/undercover person, what he told that person (kill Pannun, Nijjar is also a target), and what he told them post-arrest.

Now, if I was arrested for something, I could always say "Joe Biden told me to do it, when we met in July". That is clearly incredible. To be credible, Nikhil Gupta has to have fingered some actually existing person but about whom the Americans can't find out much; in particular, could this person have spoken to Nikhil Gupta when this conversation is supposed to have happened. Second, they haven't been able to trace the money to this person. If they could have, they would have indicted this person without asking India to investigate, and not left him/her unnamed.

In particular I think that the Americans cannot yet show that Nikhil Gupta has given them some truth and is not lying.

Plotting to murder someone has a max sentence of 10 years. (Ironically, discussing blowing up an aircraft has a longer mas sentence).
Its possible Gupta is trying to plea bargain, by promising to give details of the person behind it (the bigger the better) in return for a lighter
sentence. It may even be in his interest to get arrested in the US (skipping jail time in India) and then get asylum, claiming the Indian state will
kill him if he returns.

[Sonugn]

Question - Is Preet Bharara still involved in legal affairs?

[Jay]

Question - Is Preet Bharara still involved in legal affairs?

Preet is no longer the attorney for Southern District of New York and is currently is a partner at a law firm.

[chetak]

As usual, the amrikis want to have their cake and eat it too

‘India remains a strategic partner’: US govt clarifies while asserting that they are taking Pannun assassination plot case ‘very seriously’

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... s?from=mdr

[hgupta]

I think the GoI needs to borrow a line from Elon Musk and tell the US State Dept to go "fvck" themselves.

[sanman]

US trying to arm-twist India over Khalistanis?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SKM23U3ZHM

[drnayar]

As usual, the amrikis want to have their cake and eat it too

‘India remains a strategic partner’: US govt clarifies while asserting that they are taking Pannun assassination plot case ‘very seriously’

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... s?from=mdr

Our babus can give them a taste of Chai biskoot sessions.. no need for rona dhona

[sanman]

Did an Indian "Plot to Kill" Khalistani Terrorist in US?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggMZpKQMQjk

[sanman]

Why United States Is Backing Khalistani Terrorist Gurpatwant Singh Pannun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgPNzmDtdEA

[drnayar]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 683102.cms

The kill list: Inside Israel's plan to eliminate Hamas leaders around the world


“What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.”