Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2023 07:25

Project Director, AMCA Krishna Rajendra speaks

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2023 07:25

Lots of clarifications given.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2023 09:28

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 12800?s=20

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Feb 2023 03:52

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 17120?s=20 ---> Store Release & Ejector Mechanisms developed by R&DE(E), DRDO for launching weapons from aircraft.

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 61280?s=20 ---> Quick Release Mechanism is a launcher for the internal weapons bay, presumably for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft AMCA.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Feb 2023 04:12

Tejas Mark 1: Stepping stone to self-reliance
https://www.ajaishukla.com/2023/02/teja ... -self.html
15 Feb 2023

“The design of the AMCA – a fifth generation stealth fighter -- is completed and it is at the stage of critical design review. We are at the preliminary design stage of the TEDBF and that should move along quickly now,” says Deodhare. Aero India 23 displays an AMCA simulator with a state-of-the-art cockpit. The DRDO has also displayed advanced actuators that are now being made inside the country and which are now available for indigenous use. “We have also developed the internal weapons bay for the AMCA and a working model of that is on display,” says Deodhare. “The AMCA is being allotted a budget of Rs 15-16,000 crore. The air force is looking at seven squadrons of AMCAs.”

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Mar 2023 08:38

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/16358 ... 16610?s=20 ---> From Day-1, AMCA Phase-1 will have a higher thrust-to-weight ratio in all configurations (clean, stealth, and max all-up-weight configurations), than F-35 JSF, which itself is good.

Phase-2, if pursued, would be a whole different animal.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 06 Apr 2023 14:39

DRDO approaches CCS for AMCA project approval
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 4-amp.html
06 April 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Apr 2023 19:10

ashishvikas wrote:DRDO approaches CCS for AMCA project approval
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 4-amp.html
06 April 2023

Some interesting tidbits from the above piece;

* Air intake test certification of the Tejas Mk2 will be done in France this year.

* Govt of India is working with France for engine design, development and joint production. (This is for the 110kN turbofan for AMCA).

* Govt of India is looking for manufacturing (i.e. assembly) of Rafale for export to third countries. (i.e. UAE, Indonesia, etc. So likely backroom negotiations are on going between Bharat and France for a Rafale assembly line in India. If this pans out as envisaged, any further MRFA orders will go to France. The MRCBF will also come from the same line.)

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 07 Apr 2023 00:09

Rakesh wrote:* Govt of India is looking for manufacturing (i.e. assembly) of Rafale for export to third countries. (i.e. UAE, Indonesia, etc. So likely backroom negotiations are on going between Bharat and France for a Rafale assembly line in India. If this pans out as envisaged, any further MRFA orders will go to France. The MRCBF will also come from the same line.)

Does it impact AMCA?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 07 Apr 2023 00:22

vijayk wrote:Does it impact AMCA?

No. Two different programs.

I do not believe the Govt has the funds for 114 MRFA. It will be a truncated number in the MRFA contest.

74 MRFA + 26 MRCBF = 100 aircraft. Or any combination thereof to get to 100 aircraft.

100 aircraft is the minimum order required for assembly line.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Apr 2023 05:31

ashishvikas wrote:DRDO approaches CCS for AMCA project approval
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 4-amp.html
06 April 2023

Wonder what all was included in the proposal?

Last time in 2018 the system had a proposal for LCA Tejas Mk1A which was totally out of line including a $1B for an engine factory by GE. And Nirmala Sitraman caught it.

So just because they say the proposal was submitted it has to be fact found before sending it to CCS.
Just a cautionary tale.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 07 Apr 2023 12:55

Rakesh wrote:
vijayk wrote:Does it impact AMCA?
No. Two different programs.

I do not believe the Govt has the funds for 114 MRFA. It will be a truncated number in the MRFA contest.

74 MRFA + 26 MRCBF = 100 aircraft. Or any combination thereof to get to 100 aircraft.

100 aircraft is the minimum order required for assembly line.

Once MK2 flies, all talk of MRFA will die. But I expect another 60 of Rafale including IN requirements.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 07 Apr 2023 13:32

But till it flies we have to listen to this MRFA malarkey!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Jul 2023 12:56

X posting from Kaveri thread.

Rakesh wrote:Will start a separate thread (if & when) to discuss the JV with the chosen engine manufacturer for the 110kN turbofan for AMCA.

For now, continue to post any turbofan developments in this thread. The latest news...

Ahead of PM Modi’s visit, France offers to co-develop engine for combat jets
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 82106.html
02 July 2023

The Emmanuel Macron government gave green signal to Safran to jointly design, develop, test, manufacture and certify an engine that will power India’s AMCA.

The mk1 is supposed to enter service with 414 having a power output of 98 Kn.

People are talking about 110 Kn, 130 kn thrust for different JV being planned.

Have they designed the AMCA in such a way that it can accept any of planned engine's without any modifications to the air intake and airframe as a plug and play part.

Cause, I am sure the airflow is going to be different for each of the 3 engines.

Of we are going to see the same drama repeated by the IAF that they did with Tejas?

Order 40 then no more order for over 10 years till the Mk2 get's designed.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Jul 2023 20:16

@ Pratyush: The Indian turbofan for AMCA will *NOT* have multiple turbofan options. India is *NOT* the Rothschilds.

The chosen engine manufacturer (RR, GE or Safran) - that India plans to sign up for a JV with - will develop *ONE* turbofan. The airframe has to developed around that turbofan. My assumption is it should be similar in size to the GE F414 turbofan that will feature in the AMCA Mk1, as the AMCA Mk2 airframe should be similar in size, especially around the engine bay area.

The numbers being thrown around - 110kN, 120kN, 130kN, etc - is pure speculation at this point. Until the foreign partner is chosen and the specifications are agreed upon (in writing) between GTRE and the chosen engine partner, we are shooting darts in the dark. Nothing is concrete at this stage. We have zero clue as to how this program is going to play out.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Jul 2023 20:25

I guess we need max power from small light weight fuel efficient engine with many hours before MTBF, otherwise we could have chosen from Al 31 or Al41 series many years ago.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Jul 2023 20:29

This is a fully weathered F-22, but just to give folks pause and not fall into the hype of how smooth fifth generation aircraft look from afar. See the close ups and you will be surprised. Look at the gaps, the exposed rivets, the discoloration, etc. And this is from Lockheed Martin, one of the few companies that have successfully mastered the production (in great numbers) of fifth generation aircraft.

X-Post from the US military, technology, arms, tactics dhaaga....

Rakesh wrote:A must see Twitter thread.

https://twitter.com/DylanA_Nguyen/statu ... 05824?s=20 ---> Assorted Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor closeups…

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 13 Sep 2023 16:00

Vem Technologies Private Limited will be providing the upgraded Front Fuselage (incorporation of DSI Intake), Control Surface Hinge line modification in the Wings and addition of Engine Rotor Assembly of Advanced Fighter Aircraft (AMCA-3B-12L) to Aeronautical Development Agency.

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... VUOhQ&s=19

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Oct 2023 18:52

https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1709135334678913230?s=20 ---> IAF sources indicate that the future AMCA/TEDBF engine program will also utilise the established commercial jet engine related ecosystem setup around the CFM (GE & Safran) LEAP engine currently in Hyderabad.

https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1709164 ... 79222?s=20 ---> Is this related to post sales support? Focus should lie firmly in research and co-development aspect.

https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1709165251349143930?s=20 ---> Just companies & experience/expertise dealing with jet engines I would guess. Given MRO there in hyd & TASL. If Air India moves to Hyd as second hub which they most likely will, it'll be a giant engine hub.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 03 Dec 2023 08:17

This video above says that we have been having issues with making Titanium bulkheads for AMCA. The video says that they tried unsuccessfully to make bulkheads by welding titanium sheets. But now they are trying 3D printing.

Is titanium forging that hard that even DRDO/HAL/ADA is having tough time creating titanium bulkheads??

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Dec 2023 08:47

Titanium is a difficult material to work on.

So it's quite possible that the agencies are facing issues.

But the real interesting part was the blurb about the 15000 ton press that produces the F35 bulkheads.

How difficult would it be for such a press to be built in India

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Dec 2023 10:59

Pratyush wrote: ↑03 Dec 2023 08:47 Titanium is a difficult material to work on.

So it's quite possible that the agencies are facing issues.

But the real interesting part was the blurb about the 15000 ton press that produces the F35 bulkheads.

How difficult would it be for such a press to be built in India

It is 50,000, and not 15,000.

As far as I know, Tesla has a press at 450 tons and they have no match in the automotive industry (the company that supplies Tesla is a Chinese company that was originally an Italian one). At best other automotive companies are catching up - some may have by now.

I could be wrong, but, I doubt India could produce a 450-ton press. 450 tons press is difficult enough that only one company in the world makes it.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Dec 2023 11:14

I stand corrected for the F35 press.

WRT, 450 ton press. IIRC, I have seen multiple such units in the IMT Faridabad. Maruti Gurgaon plant one each press of 1500 tons and 2500 tons capacity.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 04 Dec 2023 22:48

Pratyush wrote: ↑03 Dec 2023 08:47 Titanium is a difficult material to work on.

So it's quite possible that the agencies are facing issues.

But the real interesting part was the blurb about the 15000 ton press that produces the F35 bulkheads.

How difficult would it be for such a press to be built in India

If Titanium sheets can be produced, how tough is it to pour hot titanium into molds and machine the excess Titanium?

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 04 Dec 2023 22:54

That would be casting, while a press is a forged component. If the design calls for a pressed bulk head, casting will usually be bigger and heavier.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 05 Dec 2023 00:39

rajsunder wrote: ↑04 Dec 2023 22:48 If Titanium sheets can be produced, how tough is it to pour hot titanium into molds and machine the excess Titanium?

raj ji, if it was easy, without any complications and within our grasp, it would had been done already.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 05 Dec 2023 03:54

Rakesh wrote: ↑15 Mar 2023 08:38 https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/16358 ... 16610?s=20 ---> From Day-1, AMCA Phase-1 will have a higher thrust-to-weight ratio in all configurations (clean, stealth, and max all-up-weight configurations), than F-35 JSF, which itself is good.

Phase-2, if pursued, would be a whole different animal.

i would presume there would be incremental improvements and future generations of the AMCA once the programme matures .. much like the Korean KF-21 Boramae

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 05 Dec 2023 08:14

IMO, he is referring to the AMCA Mk2.

It will be a very different platform. Like the MWF is to the MK1A. However, I do hope that the IAF doesn't behave with the AMCA, the way it did with the Tejas.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 07 Dec 2023 13:24

The USAF PLAAF RuAF and many others are rapidly moving towards deploying AI in combat. Already AI pilots beat humans in A2A combat.

This type of tech will easily replace expensive and hard to train human pilots in the skies.

I hope IAF realizes that they may be facing AI adversaries in the Air from PLAAF and very possibly PAF via imports.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 07 Dec 2023 16:49

I am no tech/engineer
Can I ask a noob pooch
What is going to happen to the Bison's in the inventory
Can they be used for AI/ remote control flying as test beds?? and honing the skills
Mods please delete if wrong thread posting.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 07 Dec 2023 17:42

AI Pilot for air to air missions may be easier to achieve than MUMT type projects.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Jan 2024 05:10

Part 1: viewtopic.php?p=2610704#p2610704

Part 2: viewtopic.php?p=2610757#p2610757

Part 3: viewtopic.php?p=2610850#p2610850

https://x.com/writetake/status/1742807455921512584?s=20 ---> * Sources in ADA & HAL confirm that CABS has developed and established Electrical Rig for Aircraft Systems (ERAS) for the testing of electrical LRUs of #LCAAFMk2 and #AMCA.

* This is a unique test facility created first time in the country and both ADA and HAL propose to use it for all future aircraft programmes.

* Electrical systems for future surveillance mission aircraft, UAVs and UCAVs can also be tested in this facility.

ERAS Features

* Twin-engine aircraft electrical architecture validation in ground rig.
* In-house developed software for data acquisition and control in real time.
* Electrical loading of aircraft generator with lagging and leading power factor.
* Generator lubrication/cooling system with inbuilt heater.
* Status monitoring of electrical LRUs with different avionics interface.
* Testing of aircraft generators up to 120 KVA and 28000 rpm.
* Online data storage in Network Attached Storage (NAS) and automatic report generation.

LTF

* In addition CABS has also set up a state-of-the-art Lightning Test Facility (LTF) specifically for LCA program.
* This is capable of aircraft level direct and indirect lightning testing , impulse voltage testing, pin induction & bulk cable induction testing.
* The LTF, a first-of-its-kind in India, was set up with the major participation from IISc, Bangalore.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Jan 2024 20:59

RKS Bhadauria Exclusive on India Today As AMCA Takes Off | Battle Cry

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2024 02:42

AMCA ‘PPP’ Proposal Stalled For 3.5 Yrs & Counting
https://www.livefistdefence.com/amca-pp ... -counting/
21 January 2024

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2024 04:52

Rakesh wrote: ↑22 Jan 2024 02:42 AMCA ‘PPP’ Proposal Stalled For 3.5 Yrs & Counting
https://www.livefistdefence.com/amca-pp ... -counting/
21 January 2024

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1749 ... 21295?s=20 ---> The truth is out now, PPP model is not progressing well :-(

https://x.com/Firezstarter1/status/1749 ... 06741?s=20 ---> How are ADA or DRDO or HAL supposed to convince a partner if low program allocation, GOI red tape that delays payments (Tejas Mk2) impact profitability. Plus no confirmed IAF AMCA orders (no GOI confirmation on fighter engine program) adds risk. Why will any private firm risk capex?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Jan 2024 11:37

The Babu's of India, both uniformed and civillian are unable to understand this issue.

But how can they understand this, when there livelihood depends on not understanding.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Mar 2024 20:37

https://x.com/SJha1618/status/1764541925120680248?s=20 ---> For the umpteenth time, a plane cannot fly or even be prototyped if no funds have been sanctioned for it. So, this talk of what Korea is doing or Turkey is doing is meaningless till such time the AMCA actually receives sanction for full scale engineering development with the attendant funds being disbursed expeditiously.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 07 Mar 2024 16:11

Some murmurs on SM that AMCA has been green lighted.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 07 Mar 2024 19:34

India clears project to develop AMCA 5th generation stealth fighter aircraft
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 307192045/

India clears project to develop AMCA 5th generation stealth fighter aircraft

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 07 Mar 2024 19:48

^^^^ Knee jerk and reactionary development to Pakistan's announcement of J-31 induction by 2030.

https://x.com/SJha1618/status/1765713736948474259?s=20 ---> The real celebration will begin once funds are actually disbursed, as usual.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1765 ... 57049?s=20 ---> I will end the suspense because it appears those responsible for the communication are gone for the day.

1. A case was presented to GOI to give waiver on AMCA MK1 project
2. MK1 wont be a SPV
3. GoI may “soon approve” funds for prototypes and likely HAL will make them