CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 25 Sep 2023 11:30

If so, a purge is needed. The people in the police force will know who the rotten apples are.

mody · Post by **mody** » 11 Oct 2023 19:20

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/20 ... 04292&ei=9

The main handler of the 2016 Pathankot attack gunned down outside a mosque in Pakistan. Shot at point blank range by unidentified gunmen. AoA.

The most disturbing facts about this scum....his name was on the list that the jihadis had asked for release in exchange for IA flight in 1999. This request was rejected by the Vajpayee govt. out of the list of 31 names, only the 4 non-negotiables were accepted. Even this was folly.
However, this scumbag was released subsequently as a 'GOODWILL' gesture by the then UPA govt in 2010 to try to improve relations with the pakis.

I mean how stupid can we be. Also, why wasn't this fact trumpeted by the media when Pathankot happened and the then Home Minister and the whole of congress castigates for this. Why do we even keep such guys in jails and feed them. They should simply be shot dead.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Oct 2023 02:34

How do you think UPA curbed terror attacks afterv26/11? It was through measures like this and giving Pakis the Indian Ruppee plates, they were printing 20-30% of the currency. Thats why in Demo even though 100% of the notes came in still many people in India, Nepal, SL all.had Indian Notes. Circulation value of official currency of RBI went up after demo. De LA Rue declared bankruptcy. It all fits.

The only fly in the ointment is next time Pakis would come up with harder terror attacks. UPA was paying Jaziya to the Pakis.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Nov 2023 20:33

VIDEO: https://x.com/Defencecore/status/172152 ... 82789?s=20 ---> Assam Rifles troops rescued Manipur Police commandos ambushed by Militants on a highway near India-myanmar border town Moreh. Army troops arrived in an Casspir armored vehicle and engaged the Militants in heavy gunfire, providing cover for the Police commandos to escape.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 07 Nov 2023 01:14

Rakesh wrote: ↑06 Nov 2023 20:33 VIDEO: https://x.com/Defencecore/status/172152 ... 82789?s=20 ---> Assam Rifles troops rescued Manipur Police commandos ambushed by Militants on a highway near India-myanmar border town Moreh. Army troops arrived in an Casspir armored vehicle and engaged the Militants in heavy gunfire, providing cover for the Police commandos to escape.

Who are these militants ? Kuki original religion of peace?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 17 Nov 2023 13:58

https://twitter.com/MeghUpdates/status/ ... 3623723414

360 hoors ready: our Forces halal'ed 5 pigs from Pukistan

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 22 Nov 2023 22:15

https://twitter.com/MeghUpdates/status/ ... 2134700502

Terrible News coming in from J&K- 4 Indian Army personnels, including 2 officers, have attained VEERGATI in the fierce encounter currently underway in Kalakote area of Rajouri district, J&K . 3 out 4 are 9 Para SF casualties.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 22 Nov 2023 23:24

This is what happens if we say we know there are 600 jihadis in launch-pads but dont do anything about it. Sooner or later, we pay the price

Modi's policy of 1 surgical strike per 5-year term is certainly inadequate

Bumping off the perps by "unknown gunmen" 6 months later, while very welcome, is not sufficient either

We need to take them out en-masse repeatedly on the other side of the border. And for each death on our side, impose a 1:10 or a 1:100 kill-ratio like what Israel is doing in Gaza

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Nov 2023 11:58

We need to fight on their territory, but canon fodder terror pads are hardly the solution, much more better would be to Hit Paki infrastructure and cause direct PA casualties. Surgical strikes are just morale boosters which can be done only once or twice. If PA Helicopters with Generals etc coming down, then automatically these things will come down.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 23 Nov 2023 15:59

Ashokk wrote: ↑22 Nov 2023 22:15 https://twitter.com/MeghUpdates/status/ ... 2134700502
Terrible News coming in from J&K- 4 Indian Army personnels, including 2 officers, have attained VEERGATI in the fierce encounter currently underway in Kalakote area of Rajouri district, J&K . 3 out 4 are 9 Para SF casualties.

Always sad to lose our own. If we look at the overall trend though - in the years before Article 370 was revoked, we were neutralizing
5 terrorists (Killed + arrested) for every KIA of ours. Since 2020, that ratio is 10:1.
Its a losing game for Pak is they lose 10 of theirs for 1 of ours.

An interesting development since 2020 is that while the number of terrorists killed has not fallen, the number of those arrested has shot up and crossed the number killed. Basically more people are realizing that the life of a Jihadi is not what they'd like.
Numbers killed do not include those shot on the Pak side of the LOC fence.
Our number killed includes J&K police.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 23 Nov 2023 18:58

Aditya_V wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023 11:58 We need to fight on their territory, but canon fodder terror pads are hardly the solution, much more better would be to Hit Paki infrastructure and cause direct PA casualties. Surgical strikes are just morale boosters which can be done only once or twice. If PA Helicopters with Generals etc coming down, then automatically these things will come down.

I had read on these forums a long time ago that there is an unwritten rule not to target their senior officers.

Reciprocal action from them will be much easier as our senior officers don't live in forts protected by the military.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Nov 2023 19:26

Then why are Indian Majors and Captains killed, and Indian Colonels have been killed by Terrorists?

And what sort of Army agrees Jawan's are cannon fodder and Generals can be safe, not the Indian Army. Paki Fauj yes, not ours. Some politicos clearly have deals with the Paki elite. The problem I suspect is that if Khalistani Terrorists have deep state backing , then surely Paki Generals have the Deep state backing, that strength we do not have at present. I think many Indians don't want to see the plain truth, personal good experiences cloud our judgement. What we need to keep working at it, develop MIC, capability. Hlobal influence till we can take the necessary action.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 23 Nov 2023 19:45

Aditya_V wrote: ↑23 Nov 2023 19:26 Then why are Indian Majors and Captains killed, and Indian Colonels have been killed by Terrorists?...

I was referring to assassinations.

Not KIA

IA ops see officers leading from the front.

PA ops will have officers sitting at HQ.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 23 Nov 2023 22:43

We seem to operate with some self-imposed "gentleman rules" that only we follow:

1) Surgical Strikes only if the loss of life is massive
2) Respect ceasefire
3) Don't target civilians
4) Don't attack pro-actively - only react

The other side believes in total war since 700 AD. So, they wargame our responses and recalibrate:

1) They dont do large-scale strikes anymore because they can keep killing below the threshold without fear of massive retaliation
2) They respect ceasefire on paper but send jihadis across
3) They pretend to be a professional army while they are no more than the average gutter-variety rat. They train jihadis to kill civilians. They hide among Kashmiri Muslim civilians, knowing well that we won't harm the latter
4) They choose the time/place/mode of attack with new lure-ambush tactics, with the full knowledge that we will only react. That we will spend crores of money & liters of blood to keep infinitely "refining" our defensive strategy

Lord Krishna made it abundantly clear by both his words & actions that you have to resort to Adharma when needed, in order to restore Dharma. Will we listen to Him?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 23 Nov 2023 22:50

5 Bravehearts lost in the ongoing operation.

Another jawan died on Thursday in the ongoing encounter between terrorists and security forces in Jammu and Kashmir's Rajouri district. This has taken the number of total Army personnel killed since yesterday to five.

Four Army personnel were killed on Wednesday, which included two captains and two jawans.

The slain army personnel have been identified as Captain MV Pranjal, Captain Shubham Gupta, Havildar Abdul Majid, Lance Naik Sanjay Bisht and Paratrooper Sachin Laur.

Link

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Nov 2023 23:55

I am seeing reports that Terrorists had dominated the heights, I think it's high time Armed Drones are inducted so that these pigs get exterminate before they can cause damage.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 24 Nov 2023 06:20

At this rate forget drones, we might as well use jet packs and para gliders that the paras can actually do themselves…

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Nov 2023 08:16

https://x.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1727 ... 19957?s=20 ---> Five bravehearts who sacrificed their life for the country, fighting Pakistani terrorists in Rajouri of Jammu & Kashmir. Salute the ultimate sacrifice. Terrible loss.

* Captain Shubham Gupta
* Lance Naik Sanjay Bisht
* Captain MV Pranjal
* Havildar Abdul Majid
* Paratrooper Sachin Laur

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 24 Nov 2023 12:24

I hate to say this but this has become some kind of a sick video game like Mortal Kombat. We have an attritional war going on instead of CI. Target enough of our officers over the years and see the results in a real conflict. After all bravehearts won’t get promoted up in the ranks if we lose them !

And how many hearts and minds still to win in that 4 districts? Have we won the hearts and minds of every rock tree lizard ? I don’t see any other country accepting and reacting like this and we want to be superpower. Also why not equip everyone well enough so they can overpower intruders in that region ? When are we going to use helicopter gunships and drones in some magical conflict if they can’t be tested and used here ? Standing army, shiny weapons , crores in $$, professional brochures and tactics same as local Mumbai mafia don.

We have a poverty mindset still… whether it’s the Mig21 pilot or now the brave para… expendable ! What gyaan we give foreigners in our jungle and mountain schools ? Send your para and get your top ranked jihadis …
like the Aussie cricket team that reads our soil and pitch better than us it’s time to admit we are intellectually poor in the system and need to address that at highest levels. Come up with new strategies and tactics, not just something based on other countries.

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 24 Nov 2023 18:57

Lt Gen Upendra Dwivedi, the general officer commanding-in-chief of Northern Command, on Friday said some of the terrorists who have crossed over into India from across the border are retired Pakistani soldiers.

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/terr ... 231124.htm

Hari Nair · Post by **Hari Nair** » 25 Nov 2023 05:06

I am afraid this sort of loss of lives does not reflect very well on the local leadership, specifically at the Corps and Div levels. This ‘exchange ratio’ is simply unacceptable. The situation was very different about a year-and-a-half ago, when my NDA colleague KJS Dhillon was at the reins.

I had pointed the same out to a senior retired Lt Gen when he had made a You Tube video trying to explain the loss of lives during the Kokernag encounter, about 3-4 months ago. He huffed and puffed trying to tell me I don’t understand the limitations of technology and that I was just an armchair analyst.

We have the ISR assets, organic to the formations in the area, we have the aerial firepower, again organic to the formations and both Services in the area. So, what exactly is going on and why are these not being harnessed to pick out these terrorists?

sanjayc wrote: ↑24 Nov 2023 18:57
Lt Gen Upendra Dwivedi, the general officer commanding-in-chief of Northern Command, on Friday said some of the terrorists who have crossed over into India from across the border are retired Pakistani soldiers.
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/terr ... 231124.htm

So what? Is that a justification - that a couple of retired Paki soldiers are able to generate such grievous losses? C'mon - the Good General needs to pull up his socks, to say the least!

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 25 Nov 2023 07:31

With local area dominance how come we are losing our highly trained soldiers. Does it mean that these terrorists have a higher level of training and equipment than our armed forces. It speaks to poor tactics and strategies being used.

While we lost 5 most highly trained, best equipped soldiers from PARA SF to few ragtag terrorists (from a financially failed nation) does not inspire confidence in training, tactics used. Why are we not using drones / thermal imagers to better effect? Major rethink required I feel. Did we even kill any of the terrorists?

My own armchair intuition is that the terrorists are using many well camoflaged small remote cameras across a large area to gain better situational awarenes and setup kill zones for our soldiers using camouflaged snipers, booby traps etc

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 25 Nov 2023 09:14

In 2020, we had a fake encounter in Rajouri (Amshipora case). The court martial found the encounter was fake and a captain was guilty.
The army tribunal has now given bail to the Capt, suggesting he was only following orders and was likely to be acquited.
Lot of unanswered questions, a very badly conducted court martial and a loss of goodwill of the local people. The governor had personally promised them justice would be done. Much as I support the army and feel we are decisively winning (see my previous post) this sort of thing is a black mark against the army and more importantly will deny us the local intel necessary for successful encounters.

AkshaySG · Post by **AkshaySG** » 25 Nov 2023 19:10

sanjayc wrote: ↑24 Nov 2023 18:57
Lt Gen Upendra Dwivedi, the general officer commanding-in-chief of Northern Command, on Friday said some of the terrorists who have crossed over into India from across the border are retired Pakistani soldiers.
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/terr ... 231124.htm

I am getting a little tired of this kind of rhetoric. "Reitred Pak soldiers" "Trained by SSG" Armed by ISI" etc etc... We know all of this already,.... How does that explain so many casualties on our end when we are putting up our very best (9 PARA, 4 PARA etc).

Do they mean to say that we are only trained to fight against blindly AK-47 spraying Jihadis and that every time some competent terrorists cross the border we will take such major hits?

AkshaySG · Post by **AkshaySG** » 25 Nov 2023 19:16

A situation like Randori Behak is at least a little understandable in that there was an unfortunate slip which lead to most of the casualties however besides that the amount of casualties our PARA SF battalions have taken leaves me wondering how and what exactly are we using "Special Forces" for.

Forgive me for my ignorance but it seems like using RR/Ghatak/regular infantry for these ops also would resuly in a similar kill ratio

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 25 Nov 2023 23:49

Discussion about the change in tactics by the terrorists - from encounters in cities with a lot of visibility to forests and mountains where they can lure soldiers into difficult terrain and ambushes.

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 26 Nov 2023 04:11

I am sure this has been said in so many ways & must have been discussed in strategic planning, but once the army ascertains there is either no collateral damage or damage that includes their supporters, then why just not use air support either to drop a bomb or for location to feed into a GPS guided device? If the target is as dangerous and important like Quarri was, it will definitely justify the cost that otherwise would be at risk of an irreparable cost of soldier's life? If the new tactics is to lure our army into forests and terrains that suits an entrenched terrorist then it also gives us freedom and leverage to use what ever weaponry suitable to eliminate them without a single loss of a soldier. All the rest talk of retired enemy soldier or from SSGs makes no difference.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 21 Dec 2023 22:57

~~3 jawans~~ 5 jawans martyred and 3 wounded when their vehicles were ambushed. In Rajouri, again.

Just 2 Goddamn days back, BSF was proudly saying:

We have intel on 200 terrorists in launchpads across the LoC

A few months back, we had the Northern Army Commander or someone similar, informing the press about 600 terrorists in the launchpads. Yet, we keep losing jawans, SF troops etc in this same sector in batches of 4-5 every few months.

Modi & Shah do f@*k-all about it. The Armed Forces leadership is also busy planning for 26th generation warfare, rather than present a pre-emptive surgical strike plan to the PMO. Kill 600 in one shot.

Like I had said earlier, the PMO & AF Leadership have made surgical strikes a gold-plated option. To be dusted and used every 5 years. And only reactively. While Pakis have wargamed this nicely, sing the ceasefire tune, send jihadis & kill batches of 5 (which is below our self-imposed retaliation threshold)

Or maybe the Forces Leadership is afraid. Their lack of war-preparation will be horribly exposed if they do a surgical strike and Chi-Pakis go up the escalation ladder. "We are prepared for a 2.5 front war" is good only for headlines or memoirs.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 22 Dec 2023 09:23

The blood boils at the casual nature with which we accept these losses. Utter failure by the Armed Forces Leadership, RM, HM & PMO

Lots of navel gazing about how its an intel failure, how to improve SOP, why are they not wearing bullet-proof vests, why travel in non-armored vehicles etc. While all these are valid, what will move the needle are proactive & persistent surgical strikes on the Pakis. Which our leadership is too pusillanimous to do

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Dec 2023 11:22

Yes blood boils, we slow procurement of domestic MIC, hence Pakis are afrais we can go easily up the escalation order.

Clearly there is a failure in Rajouri area, as someone said why not just use UAV and aerial assets to scan and target vermin on this of the Border and target Uniformed Jihadis on that side of the LOC.

Peace with Pakistan is like entering into a peace deal with Ghazni or Ghori.

Sonugn · Post by **Sonugn** » 22 Dec 2023 16:08

One soldier was beheaded.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Dec 2023 18:21

Definitely some heavy response is required even if nt published, a MLRS strike on PA barracks, PA Army trucks or any suitable Pakistani military target, even shooting down of Paki Army personal with A2A missile, modern day MD Ghauris will not change but will down hill ski when things get a bit hot.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 22 Dec 2023 19:21

I don't believe there might be any big ticket response. Lets see if a Sarp Vinash 2.0 is taken up.

mody · Post by **mody** » 23 Dec 2023 17:53

Major combing operation launched in Rajouri. Upto 24 people have been detained as of now. Maybe trying to catch all the overground workers.
A tougher response and change in SOP at the ground level are required. From the past 2-3 major strikes by the terrorists it seems they have studied the IA tactics in much better detail and are conducting their strikes accordingly.

The current strike definitely suggests the same. After the initial engagement with the troops, the terrorists disengaged and slipped away to lay ambush for the re-enforcements that they perhaps knew, would definitely be called upon.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 23 Dec 2023 20:36

As per HT, M4s and steel core bullets were used by terrorists in the attack. Another infiltration bid was made by 4 terrorists at Akhnoor. Unfortunately only one was killed and the rest escaped.

Link - some badly blurred images in the video.

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 24 Dec 2023 09:48

Can't help but admire the strategic brilliance of the Pakistani Establishment. With a few M4s and steel core bullets they can bring the Indian armed forces to its knees at a time and place of their choosing .

See the sheer magic - every time such an attack happens... for every indian soldier that is killed NO PAKISTANI SOLDIER is killed. Every time such an attack happens...hundreds of our troops have to be deployed burning 1000s of litres of diesel, aviation fuel and other supplies, consuming millions of rupees. Every time such an attack happens...the Pakistanis can chop off the head of our soldier and all our high priced toys Sukhois, Rafales, Vikrant will sit quietly without firing a single shot towards Pakistan and the ordinary Pakistani soldier will relax in his barracks sipping chai and shagging at some Bollywood actress on TV. Absolutely brilliant!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Dec 2023 13:47

Yes it's clear, now COIN must be done but we must definitely flying our Drones and get info, we must hit something big for the Pakis anytime within the next 3 months.

And no weapon should be off the table.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 24 Dec 2023 13:49

Elections are coming next year...SS 3.0 is not far off

AkshaySG · Post by **AkshaySG** » 24 Dec 2023 20:32

ashthor wrote: ↑24 Dec 2023 13:49 Elections are coming next year...SS 3.0 is not far off

That may be good enough for electoral chest thumping but nothing much beyond that.

We've essentially proven to Pak that we have a very high threshold to undertake major operations like cross border strikes and if they continue to attack 3-5 of our men at a time instead of 30 at once then we do nothing beyond standard responses

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 24 Dec 2023 21:31

sajaym and others - we all feel the same angst at the continuous loss of our bravehearts. But this is the nature of asymmetrical warfare everywhere. Israel is fending off $2000 projectiles with $2M missiles. What is the army to do? We have to keep trying to prevent further infiltration and keep pursuing and killing the ones that have made it in.

What we will not know is if they have the political backing and direction to inflict pain where it matters - the root of the issue being the Pakistan Army. If we cannot inflict disproportionate losses on their army for every Indian loss, there is no deterrent for them to hold back. This is a perfect model for Pakistan, China and their supporters to keep bleeding India.