Understanding the US - Again

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

vijayk wrote: 18 Jan 2024 04:30 Fair enough. All parties do politics near elections. Democrats and Republicans will both have their narrative to the the public. People will judge. Hopefully BLM won't start rioting again if Trump wins. He will be out after 4 years anyway.

Most of the divisive issues such as abortion, guns, immigration, DEI, gender surgeries, drug policies all can be reasonably solved if both parties sit down to negotiate but extremists on both sides don't want the solution.
Agree with you on communication solves a lot of problems when you have reasonable folks on both sides.

Not sure what BLM has to do with Trump. Although BLM existed before, it came into the public discourse around George Floyd and Derek Chauvin. Police brutality and racial discrimination were at the heart of the issue. Any discussion of these topics benefits from considering the broader historical and social context, including systemic racism, socio-economic factors, and the long-standing grievances of Black communities. The property damage and rioting were unfortunate. The majority of the protests were peaceful. Some BLM organizers even profited and were turned over to states for prosecution.

Trump isn't leaving once he takes office. He said so. I would listen to him when he says "4 Years and Beyond". He is said this multiple times now.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

vijayk wrote: 18 Jan 2024 04:36 https://archive.is/E5sDW
Why We Can’t Just Shrug Off the Fani Willis Scandal
LOOKS REALLY BAD
If the DA prosecuting Trump prolonged an investigation to justify a hefty salary for a romantic partner, that is a genuine conflict of interest that would require her dismissal.
You say anything against her. They pull a Race card. How can a system work like this.
Trump takes 8 million sale of property in trump tower from the Chinese. He isn't going to help India when china postures. Phooey
Another one from Qataris minute something is stuck.
daughter gets millions from chinese
Son in law - 2 billion from saudis.
I mean who is counting?
Three SCOTUS allegedly taking money / vacations / paid off mortgages / club memberships...
Last edited by Cybaru on 18 Jan 2024 05:23, edited 1 time in total.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

Jay wrote: 18 Jan 2024 02:39
Cybaru wrote: 18 Jan 2024 01:07 everything we don't understand gets attributed to it, then it's not really real IMO. Maybe I am naive.
No you are not. Deep State has become a "crutch" of sorts for some people on this forum.
Thanks!
hgupta
BRFite
Posts: 493
Joined: 20 Oct 2018 14:17

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by hgupta »

Cybaru and Jay, I get what you’re saying about Trump. I was anti-Trump as anyone else could get but when Biden came onto the scene (I was a Biden supporter until the Ukraine war broke out) after a year and half of experiencing the deep state machinations and wokeism gone amok and overriding every bit of sensibility I’m very much pro Trump or any pro candidate as long as they can beat Biden and kick him and his ilk out.


Restore sanity to the White House please.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

hgupta wrote: 18 Jan 2024 09:54 Cybaru and Jay, I get what you’re saying about Trump. I was anti-Trump as anyone else could get but when Biden came onto the scene (I was a Biden supporter until the Ukraine war broke out) after a year and half of experiencing the deep state machinations and wokeism gone amok and overriding every bit of sensibility I’m very much pro Trump or any pro candidate as long as they can beat Biden and kick him and his ilk out.


Restore sanity to the White House please.
How do you rate democracy chances with trump back in power?
What about the Ukraine war changed your mind?

I was ok trump till he took office. He was ok in the ny scene. Didn’t know about his alleged raping/epstien/molestation/tax evasion and business ethics before. Never want to see him again in power personally. Someone who doesn't pay taxes and takes all the benefits will never do well for the Republic. A very selfish person, who takes for himself, has no place in public service.. It requires someone who is willing to give something for the nation, doesn't matter the nation.
Last edited by Cybaru on 18 Jan 2024 11:52, edited 1 time in total.
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4248
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Prem Kumar »

vijayk wrote: 17 Jan 2024 15:32 I don't think Vivek will be VP candidate. I really doubt it
Dont think Vivek will be VP. Trump is a prima donna and wont share the spotlight with anyone. Vivek is a spotlight stealer and the tension between them will be a bit much

Vivek has a better chance in 2028 if he remains an outsider. A VP (in the 1-in-500 chance that it happens) is OK but he has to put up with Trump's fickleness and will have a lot to answer for his boss' mistakes in 2028. But on the plus side, it will set him up nicely for a run for President

He should not take up any other Administrative responsibility under Trump (except VP), IMO, because it will paint him as an insider - he wont have the freedom to make radical changes and it will come back to bite him
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12132
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A_Gupta »

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... es/677152/
America entered 2023 with two big problems and two leading theories about what was causing them. Over the preceding three years, the murder rate had reached levels not seen since the mid-1990s, which was widely attributed to reductions in policing following the protests over the murder of George Floyd. The inflation rate was even worse, by historical standards, peaking in 2022 at 9 percent, the highest number since 1981. This, in turn, was believed to be the result of Congress and the Biden administration pumping too much money into the economy. Each theory implied a solution to its respective crisis. To bring crime back down, America’s cities would have to empower their depleted and demoralized police forces. To tame inflation, the Federal Reserve would have to crush consumer spending by triggering a recession.

Both theories now appear to have been wrong. Over the course of 2023, police forces kept shrinking, yet overall violent-crime rates plummeted to their lowest levels since the 1960s. And the economy boomed even as inflation came just about all the way down to the Fed’s 2 percent target. In surveys, most Americans say that crime and inflation are still rising, but they’re wrong. Call it the Great Normalization: The twin crises largely evaporated, and no one is totally sure why.
The year 2020 was a bloody one. Murder spiked by 30 percent that year and continued to rise in 2021, abruptly reversing decades of progress on violence in America. One of the most common explanations was that the protests against police brutality in the summer of 2020 had created a hostile environment for police officers, many of whom responded by pulling back from their duties or leaving the force altogether. Officer resignations jumped 35 percent in 2020 and 9 percent in 2021.

Then the unexpected happened. Even as police forces across the country continued to shrink, violence began falling fast. According to the crime researcher Jeff Asher, murders fell by 13 percent and violent crime overall by 8 percent in 2023, some of the largest single-year decreases on record—a shift that my colleague David Graham recently called “America’s peace wave.” The improvement, though not universal, was particularly striking in some of the cities that needed it most. Baltimore and Philadelphia each experienced a roughly 25 percent decrease in homicides despite being down about 700 and 1,000 officers, respectively. Detroit experienced its fewest murders since 1966, even though it lost an average of nearly an officer a day for much of 2022. New York City lost more than 2,500 officers in 2023 alone. The murder rate fell there too.
A strikingly similar story can be told about the post-pandemic economy. After several decades of stable prices, inflation went wild in late 2021, peaking at 9 percent in the summer of 2022. By then, the prevailing explanation was that the Biden administration’s $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan had given people too much money to spend. Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers called the bill the “least responsible macroeconomic policy we’ve had in the last 40 years.” All that stimulus, he and other experts argued, had led to too much money chasing after not enough stuff. The only way to tame inflation, according to this view, would be to crush the excess demand by engineering a painful economic slowdown. Heading into 2023, nearly every economist, forecaster, and CEO predicted that a recession was right around the corner. A Bloomberg Economics model put the odds of a recession by October 2023 at 100 percent.

Instead, inflation fell steadily while the stock market boomed, unemployment remained below 4 percent, and wages rose faster than prices. Meanwhile, Europe—which did not have nearly the same level of fiscal stimulus—experienced even higher inflation than the U.S. in 2022 while experiencing far less growth and more unemployment.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5491
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cyrano »

Really?! What explains these IF the two statements are factually correct?
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8851
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by vijayk »

The seeds of destruction for US democracy were laid when Bush passed the Super PAC, Corporations are individuals too bill to promote billions of funding into these parties. Initially it benefited the Republicans and then Democrats figured out. Supreme Court should have banned it but they let it go. Now they print trillions, hand it over to Wall street, they invest a part of it in politicians to give more, wage proxy wars all over the world, regime changes, terrorist movements and wacky ideas of LGBTQ. Anything to keep people busy and fighting while they loot.

https://x.com/PeterSweden7/status/17476 ... 78940?s=20 New concept for Dumb wokes ... Ecocide :rotfl:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 50326.html
Americans Continue To Walk Away From Both Parties
The positions of neither party represent the large swath of voters who want moderate solutions to the problems facing the country. The partisans have attempted to belittle those who advocate for moderate solutions as being wishy-washy and not standing for anything. Not so. They just do not agree with the extreme solutions advocated by the two incumbent parties.

Take abortion as an example. We have one party that wants to ban it completely or allow very narrow exceptions. The other party wants women to have a completely unfettered right to have an abortion at any time. But the polling has shown for decades that about 70% of Americans believe that a woman should have an unrestricted right to have an abortion until about 12-15 weeks of pregnancy, but after that needs to have a compelling reason to do so. And that consensus holds across all demographic groups.
dsreedhar
BRFite
Posts: 387
Joined: 10 Jan 2011 06:57

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by dsreedhar »

An interesting Congress testimony by Bella Dodd in the 1950s on the US political establishment...

[youtube]https://youtu.be/VLHNz2YMnRY?si=wtsommDhSKWQMlux[/youtube]
williams
BRFite
Posts: 889
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 20:55

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by williams »

Cybaru wrote: 18 Jan 2024 10:31
hgupta wrote: 18 Jan 2024 09:54 Cybaru and Jay, I get what you’re saying about Trump. I was anti-Trump as anyone else could get but when Biden came onto the scene (I was a Biden supporter until the Ukraine war broke out) after a year and half of experiencing the deep state machinations and wokeism gone amok and overriding every bit of sensibility I’m very much pro Trump or any pro candidate as long as they can beat Biden and kick him and his ilk out.


Restore sanity to the White House please.
How do you rate democracy chances with trump back in power?
What about the Ukraine war changed your mind?

I was ok trump till he took office. He was ok in the ny scene. Didn’t know about his alleged raping/epstien/molestation/tax evasion and business ethics before. Never want to see him again in power personally. Someone who doesn't pay taxes and takes all the benefits will never do well for the Republic. A very selfish person, who takes for himself, has no place in public service.. It requires someone who is willing to give something for the nation, doesn't matter the nation.
Many US Presidents have had textured pasts but generally media will not bother a lot to find out. In Trumps' case the deep state (I mean the near permanent bureaucracy and Media) on both sides will do everything in their power to keep Trump out, since he goes about disrupting their entrenched agenda. From Indian FP point of view it should be a lot easier to handle Trump. Basically if you convince him with a bit more pleasantries and diplomacy, he will be a lot more useful for us. With Biden, you will have to deal with the vast bureaucracy that has more anti-India factions than our two eyes meet.

Regarding democracy, the current two party system with quasi-democratic primaries and electoral college system is a lot less democratic to start with. Add to that with a good-for-nothing senate and house focused on mudslinging.

Trump is a sore loser and an ego maniac, but I don't think he either has the intelligence or the temperament to design a so-called "insurrection" to take over US government and suspend democracy the way the media is insinuating.

Finally we are talking about politicians in a Neo capitalistic era in an ultra capitalistic country. They are bond to be selfish and will do everything in their power to acquire wealth and power. We just understand it and deal with it to get max gains for India. If Pakis can play that game, we can do much better with the vast amount of resources we have.
Jay
BRFite
Posts: 699
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Jay »

hgupta wrote: 18 Jan 2024 09:54 Cybaru and Jay, I get what you’re saying about Trump.
Restore sanity to the White House please.
Gupta ji, I did not say anything about trump and frankly does not want to go there. At this point its clear that everyone has made up their minds and they will vote for trump or against trump. what I see is, Biden admin, for all the trepidations I had about a dem establishment's history with India, has been surprisingly pragmatic in its dealings with India, and Modi. I see a marked shift in the policy making circles where they have started to deal with india as a constructive partner, but not as a pandering nation on bhooka nanga cow worshipers. I'm glad that level of haughtiness stopped with the obama admin. Trump made the presidents office consider India, and this admin has taken that approach a step further(my opinion).
drnayar
BRFite
Posts: 972
Joined: 29 Jan 2023 18:38

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by drnayar »

https://www.earth.com/news/the-u-s-just ... ilometers/

The U.S. just expanded its territory by a million square kilometers
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

vijayk wrote: 18 Jan 2024 21:02 The seeds of destruction for US democracy were laid when Bush passed the Super PAC, Corporations are individuals too bill to promote billions of funding into these parties. Initially it benefited the Republicans and then Democrats figured out. Supreme Court should have banned it but they let it go. Now they print trillions, hand it over to Wall street, they invest a part of it in politicians to give more, wage proxy wars all over the world, regime changes, terrorist movements and wacky ideas of LGBTQ. Anything to keep people busy and fighting while they loot.

https://x.com/PeterSweden7/status/17476 ... 78940?s=20 New concept for Dumb wokes ... Ecocide :rotfl:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 50326.html
Americans Continue To Walk Away From Both Parties
The positions of neither party represent the large swath of voters who want moderate solutions to the problems facing the country. The partisans have attempted to belittle those who advocate for moderate solutions as being wishy-washy and not standing for anything. Not so. They just do not agree with the extreme solutions advocated by the two incumbent parties.

Take abortion as an example. We have one party that wants to ban it completely or allow very narrow exceptions. The other party wants women to have a completely unfettered right to have an abortion at any time. But the polling has shown for decades that about 70% of Americans believe that a woman should have an unrestricted right to have an abortion until about 12-15 weeks of pregnancy, but after that needs to have a compelling reason to do so. And that consensus holds across all demographic groups.
Yes banning abortion and books is the way things are headed on the right. I wonder why?
And how does it help India?
I hope Indian women continue to have the freedom even though in places like Punjab these are abused. Overall pushing the society further is the better way to solve this problem rather than policing wombs.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

williams wrote: 19 Jan 2024 00:42 From Indian FP point of view it should be a lot easier to handle Trump. Basically if you convince him with a bit more pleasantries and diplomacy, he will be a lot more useful for us. With Biden, you will have to deal with the vast bureaucracy that has more anti-India factions than our two eyes meet.
The Chinese can't do what you suggested? Why would it be true only for India?

Basically you are saying he is dumb Buffon and a little butter here and there allows external nations to get what they want at the cost of US?

So what you are also saying is that US interests are better served with Biden administration?
williams
BRFite
Posts: 889
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 20:55

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by williams »

The Chinese can't do what you suggested? Why would it be true only for India?
Well, the Chinese got away with whatever they want. I am not sure if they would have come this fare without US support.
Basically you are saying he is dumb Buffon and a little butter here and there allows external nations to get what they want at the cost of US?
Absolutely :D Remember Modi just impressed him by showing the crowd in Houston.

So what you are also saying is that US interests are better served with Biden administration?

That I am not sure, but the relationship with this administration is not as warm as the previous one in my opinion.
sanman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2384
Joined: 22 Mar 2023 11:02

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by sanman »

Wall Street senses a change in the political winds, and are now trying to curry favour with Trump

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

sanman wrote: 19 Jan 2024 05:47 Wall Street senses a change in the political winds, and are now trying to curry favour with Trump
lol - they play both sides. I mean Trump was a registered Democrat for 30 odd years before 2016.
hgupta
BRFite
Posts: 493
Joined: 20 Oct 2018 14:17

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by hgupta »

Cybaru wrote: 18 Jan 2024 10:31
hgupta wrote: 18 Jan 2024 09:54 Cybaru and Jay, I get what you’re saying about Trump. I was anti-Trump as anyone else could get but when Biden came onto the scene (I was a Biden supporter until the Ukraine war broke out) after a year and half of experiencing the deep state machinations and wokeism gone amok and overriding every bit of sensibility I’m very much pro Trump or any pro candidate as long as they can beat Biden and kick him and his ilk out.


Restore sanity to the White House please.
How do you rate democracy chances with trump back in power?
What about the Ukraine war changed your mind?

I was ok trump till he took office. He was ok in the ny scene. Didn’t know about his alleged raping/epstien/molestation/tax evasion and business ethics before. Never want to see him again in power personally. Someone who doesn't pay taxes and takes all the benefits will never do well for the Republic. A very selfish person, who takes for himself, has no place in public service.. It requires someone who is willing to give something for the nation, doesn't matter the nation.
It was not just the Ukraine war that changed my mind but the wokeism that came along with it and the blindness to the deep state machinations going on. All Biden had to do to avoid the Ukraine war was to unilaterally declare that Ukraine will never be part of NATO and force Zelensky to completely and utterly declare that Ukraine will never join NATO and enter a treaty to that effect. That is all Russia ever wanted. But no, Biden couldn't hold his ego in check and allowed the Deep State players to manipulate him into letting this disastrous war happen. Now we got inflation, increasing and rampant crime, wokeism gone amok, and a more polarized world and the nuclear Armageddon ever closer than it was in the last 40 years. He chose the wrong enemy when the real enemy was China all along. Russia really never wanted to be the US's enemy but there were certain red lines that US and NATO could not cross and he communicated very clearly to them. Yet they crossed. Trump understood those red lines and did not cross them. Trump kept US out of conflicts and kept US from sending prodigious amount of dollars overseas that could only described as criminally wasteful and will boomerang back to the US in a cosmic karma way. And Trump kept the wokeism at bay. He did those things while growing the economy and keeping the inflation under control. Like it or not, he did handle the Covid crisis by embarking on massive covid vaccine research. The only thing I did not like was his messaging and his massive spending on the Bonds market which led to a massive spike in inflation and overheating of the real estate market albeit that was largely Biden's doing.

But what sealed the change was the fact that he was no longer in control of the US foreign policy and to a lesser extent the domestic policy. He is old and befuddled. I do not think that he is in command of his faculties. Too many other things to list but what I cited are very major points.

And Trump was very friendly to India. He made sure that his State Department and Defense Department were friendly to India. Biden may have been friendly but he let the State Dept run amok with anti-India elements.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

hgupta wrote: 19 Jan 2024 06:24
Cybaru wrote: 18 Jan 2024 10:31

How do you rate democracy chances with trump back in power?
What about the Ukraine war changed your mind?

I was ok trump till he took office. He was ok in the ny scene. Didn’t know about his alleged raping/epstien/molestation/tax evasion and business ethics before. Never want to see him again in power personally. Someone who doesn't pay taxes and takes all the benefits will never do well for the Republic. A very selfish person, who takes for himself, has no place in public service.. It requires someone who is willing to give something for the nation, doesn't matter the nation.
It was not just the Ukraine war that changed my mind but the wokeism that came along with it and the blindness to the deep state machinations going on. All Biden had to do to avoid the Ukraine war was to unilaterally declare that Ukraine will never be part of NATO and force Zelensky to completely and utterly declare that Ukraine will never join NATO and enter a treaty to that effect. That is all Russia ever wanted. But no, Biden couldn't hold his ego in check and allowed the Deep State players to manipulate him into letting this disastrous war happen. Now we got inflation, increasing and rampant crime, wokeism gone amok, and a more polarized world and the nuclear Armageddon ever closer than it was in the last 40 years. He chose the wrong enemy when the real enemy was China all along. Russia really never wanted to be the US's enemy but there were certain red lines that US and NATO could not cross and he communicated very clearly to them. Yet they crossed. Trump understood those red lines and did not cross them. Trump kept US out of conflicts and kept US from sending prodigious amount of dollars overseas that could only described as criminally wasteful and will boomerang back to the US in a cosmic karma way. And Trump kept the wokeism at bay. He did those things while growing the economy and keeping the inflation under control. Like it or not, he did handle the Covid crisis by embarking on massive covid vaccine research. The only thing I did not like was his messaging and his massive spending on the Bonds market which led to a massive spike in inflation and overheating of the real estate market albeit that was largely Biden's doing.

But what sealed the change was the fact that he was no longer in control of the US foreign policy and to a lesser extent the domestic policy. He is old and befuddled. I do not think that he is in command of his faculties. Too many other things to list but what I cited are very major points.

And Trump was very friendly to India. He made sure that his State Department and Defense Department were friendly to India. Biden may have been friendly but he let the State Dept run amok with anti-India elements.
Appreciate your response.

I think there is conflicting information in your note here around inflation + jobs. I am also leaving out any response to this abstract evidence less "DEEPSTATE" reference.

1. Why did inflation occur? Who is responsible for it?
While it is true that inflation has been a concern in recent years, it is not accurate to attribute it solely to Biden's policies. The Federal Reserve's low interest rate in last decade and zero interest rate policy (ZIRP) during the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic also played a significant role in fueling inflation. Moreover, the decline in inflation rates in recent months suggests that the current administration's policies are having a positive impact on controlling prices. JOBS + CPI share a different story than what what you suggested.

2. Crime - The stats seem to disagree with your notion / beliefs
While it is essential to address crime and ensure public safety, the assertion that crime has significantly increased under the current administration is not supported by the data. In fact, according to FBI statistics, the violent crime rate in 2021-2023 was lower than it was in 2020 and remained near historic lows.

Here is some more data
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/brie ... -rate.html
But the data over the past year has offered a much more optimistic picture. The number of murders in U.S. cities fell by more than 12 percent — which would be the biggest national decline on record. The spike that started in 2020 now looks more like a blip, and the murder rate is lower than it was during the 1970s, ’80s and ’90s. The recent data also suggests that the violent-crime rate in 2023 was near its lowest level in more than 50 years
3. Russia / Ukraine / nato and its story.
I don't personally think It is correct to suggest that Russia would have withdrawn from Ukrainian territory had Ukraine signed a treaty renouncing its NATO aspirations. There is no evidence to support this claim, and it oversimplifies the complex geopolitical dynamics at play in the region. This has been ongoing since 2014. We have seen how things play out when other nations like china and Pakistan occupy other countries territories. How would have trump handled it? Who knows!! That man can't stop CRIMING. He has 91 cases/indictments against him, and millions in legal fees. I think he is running to ensure Maga pays his bills and if he can escape his crime as president that would be welcome addition. IMO if Georgia case of "find me 11000 more votes" is an indication of how the citizenry will get disfranchised over time in this country under republican rule. If he wins, he will mostly be at the Golf course anyways.

4. Lastly, the assertion that Trump was "very friendly" to India while Biden has allowed "anti-India elements" in his administration is probably a baseless claim with no supporting evidence. It appears to be an attempt to discredit Biden and promote Trump, rather than a genuine concern for US-India relations. We all personally like some players and are not fond of others, but it certainly does not translate to anti-India.

Again I do appreciate you sharing your viewpoint. It helps me understand.
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8851
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by vijayk »

Cybaru wrote: 19 Jan 2024 03:35
vijayk wrote: 18 Jan 2024 21:02 The seeds of destruction for US democracy were laid when Bush passed the Super PAC, Corporations are individuals too bill to promote billions of funding into these parties. Initially it benefited the Republicans and then Democrats figured out. Supreme Court should have banned it but they let it go. Now they print trillions, hand it over to Wall street, they invest a part of it in politicians to give more, wage proxy wars all over the world, regime changes, terrorist movements and wacky ideas of LGBTQ. Anything to keep people busy and fighting while they loot.

https://x.com/PeterSweden7/status/17476 ... 78940?s=20 New concept for Dumb wokes ... Ecocide :rotfl:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 50326.html
Americans Continue To Walk Away From Both Parties

Yes banning abortion and books is the way things are headed on the right. I wonder why?
And how does it help India?
I hope Indian women continue to have the freedom even though in places like Punjab these are abused. Overall pushing the society further is the better way to solve this problem rather than policing wombs.
Where does India come from?
Who supported banning abortion and books?

Do you even read the post before spewing BS?
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10042
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

4. Lastly, the assertion that Trump was "very friendly" to India while Biden has allowed "anti-India elements" in his administration is probably a baseless claim with no supporting evidence. It appears to be an attempt to discredit Biden and promote Trump, rather than a genuine concern for US-India relations. We all personally like some players and are not fond of others, but it certainly does not translate to anti-India.
"Baseless claims":
1. Feb 2021. Using the Defense Production Act to prohibit the supplies of vaccine production raw materials to SEI. Poonawalla openly complained about this on Twitter. The purpose was to force India to buy the mRNA Pfizer vaccine. It's also covered in Suraj's book. The production delay, costing the lives of 10s of thousands of Indians, hit the hardest during the Delta variant.
2. FON in April 2021 by USN between Lakshadweep and India's mainland without consulting the IN. Typically the USN consults its friends and allies. This was allowed to slide on purpose.
3. Sep 2021. The AUKUS fiasco. India signed the alphabet soup treaties only to be denied nuclear submarine technology, but then gets handed to the Australians. A back stab of the QUAD.
4. Sep 2022. Grant of $450M to PAF to upgrade & sustain their F-16 fleet.
5. Aug 2023. US renews CISMOA treaty with Pak military after it was allowed to lapse in 2020.
6. Supporting of Khalistani terrorists & narco-criminals in the US.

The bright side of course is that Modi got a state visit to the WH last year. The Biden admin is trotting out the same old tricks of the past thinking they can boost an Indian PM's ego, but then stab them in the back.
A Deshmukh
BRFite
Posts: 524
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 14:24

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by A Deshmukh »

hgupta wrote: 19 Jan 2024 06:24 But no, Biden couldn't hold his ego in check and allowed the Deep State players to manipulate him into letting this disastrous war happen.
[theory]Maybe all Bidenwa wanted is to make more money in $Bs and destroy all evidences of past money embezzlement. war gives a perfect excuse.
Deep state wanted contracts for more weapons.
good alignment of interests.[/theory]
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32449
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by chetak »

A Deshmukh wrote: 19 Jan 2024 11:45
hgupta wrote: 19 Jan 2024 06:24 But no, Biden couldn't hold his ego in check and allowed the Deep State players to manipulate him into letting this disastrous war happen.
[theory]Maybe all Bidenwa wanted is to make more money in $Bs and destroy all evidences of past money embezzlement. war gives a perfect excuse. Deep state wanted contracts for more weapons. good alignment of interests.[/theory]


Deshmukh ji,

bidenwa is senile and the soreass backed commie deep state is running the show... but all is not lost because the right wing is pushing back strongly in europe, even as more states fall to them

may be, a similar push back is starting in the US too........

bidenwa is mostly out of it, trotted out every now and then, as a "proof of life" presentation to reassure the local yokels

if the soreass bunch gain total control over the US establishment, more ukr like scenarios will follow for sure, with India, the Hindus, and Modi, all prominently figuring in the mix


added later

would lloyd austin have dared to do what he did, if anyone else other than bidenwa was president........ this is grounds for lloyd austin's instant dismissal
Last edited by chetak on 19 Jan 2024 13:47, edited 1 time in total.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

Yes Mort, those are valid. Quick scroll through wiki, here is some stuff.

Lets not forget Trump invited Imran Khan to WH in 2019

From wiki
"In September 2019, during a joint rally at Houston, Trump refused to endorse India's repeated allegations against Pakistan.[140] After the joint rally, Trump called himself a 'friend' of Pakistan and termed Imran Khan as a 'great leader'.[141]

In January 2020, President Trump once again held a meeting with Prime Minister Khan in Davos, on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum. President Trump hailed the growing relationship between the United States and Pakistan.[142] He said that United States has never been closer with Pakistan than it is currently under his administration. This was the third meeting between the two countries and Trump once again offered to mediate on Kashmir issue. His remarks were welcomed by Prime Minister Khan.[142]
"

If I see disbursements here at https://www.foreignassistance.gov/ - I see 3-4X more every year from 2017 to 2021 under Trump to Pakistan than under Biden. Can someone double check.
Last edited by Cybaru on 19 Jan 2024 20:59, edited 1 time in total.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

A Deshmukh wrote: 19 Jan 2024 11:45
hgupta wrote: 19 Jan 2024 06:24 But no, Biden couldn't hold his ego in check and allowed the Deep State players to manipulate him into letting this disastrous war happen.
[theory]Maybe all Bidenwa wanted is to make more money in $Bs and destroy all evidences of past money embezzlement. war gives a perfect excuse.
Deep state wanted contracts for more weapons.
good alignment of interests.[/theory]
Is this more DeepState stuff? :eek:
Did I miss the creative writing class invite?
Thankfully you did say "theory".. so leaving it there...

I thought we provided proof here on BR, or maybe that's just in the Mil Forum.
I guess there must have been a reason I skipped this forum for 22 out of 24 years I have been here.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32449
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by chetak »

Donald Trump’s son floats Tucker Carlson as potential Vice President pick


Donald Trump's son says Tucker Carlson as US Vice President 'on the table'


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... s?from=mdr

Indian-American tech entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy is also reported to be in reckoning for Trump's VP pick. After withdrawing from Republican primaries, Ramaswamy has endorsed Trump as GOP presidential candidate. During a New Hampshire rally, Trump hinted at future role for Ramaswamy in his government.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

That makes sense.

1. Find a guy who can read a script and not deviate no matter what! No better than a TV personality that has been reading stuff from teleprompter for two decades written by 10 TRP raisers in the backroom.
2. Find a guy who the MAGA base knows and loves!

Surprised its not judge Jennine! :D
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... te-profits
A new report claims “resounding evidence” shows that high corporate profits are a main driver of ongoing inflation, and companies continue to keep prices high even as their inflationary costs drop.
The lack of competition among grocery chains and diaper brands listed in the article is due to consolidation.
Garooda
BRFite
Posts: 568
Joined: 13 Jul 2011 00:00

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Garooda »

Prem Kumar wrote: 18 Jan 2024 11:52
vijayk wrote: 17 Jan 2024 15:32 I don't think Vivek will be VP candidate. I really doubt it
Dont think Vivek will be VP. Trump is a prima donna and wont share the spotlight with anyone. Vivek is a spotlight stealer and the tension between them will be a bit much

Vivek has a better chance in 2028 if he remains an outsider. A VP (in the 1-in-500 chance that it happens) is OK but he has to put up with Trump's fickleness and will have a lot to answer for his boss' mistakes in 2028. But on the plus side, it will set him up nicely for a run for President

He should not take up any other Administrative responsibility under Trump (except VP), IMO, because it will paint him as an insider - he wont have the freedom to make radical changes and it will come back to bite him
I wonder at times if Vivek was set to be the opening batsman for Trump to soften or distract the masses while Trump was busy with legal eagles. Somehow I feel both Trump and Vivek may have had a joint game plan perhaps? Vivek has not openly criticized Trump compared to other candidates besides the usual jabs here and there during his political campaign and several speeches. With Vivek endorsing Trump in NH, its instant access to Vivek's supporters further increasing the numbers for now.

Vivek stood no chance as a young hindu american indian to become the next POTUS on his very first attempt at the age of 38. Perhaps it may take a decade or two before we see something like that happen.
Last edited by Garooda on 20 Jan 2024 01:27, edited 3 times in total.
Garooda
BRFite
Posts: 568
Joined: 13 Jul 2011 00:00

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Garooda »

Cybaru wrote: 19 Jan 2024 20:59 That makes sense.

1. Find a guy who can read a script and not deviate no matter what! No better than a TV personality that has been reading stuff from teleprompter for two decades written by 10 TRP raisers in the backroom.
2. Find a guy who the MAGA base knows and loves!

Surprised its not judge Jennine! :D
Celebrities often do the trick :lol: just like it has for many states in India 8)
Celebrities supporting MAGA. There are many other conservative celebs in hollywood besides the ones pictured in the link both young and old. Simple search for Hollywood Celebs who are conservate and vote republican will yield a wide range of results. Pick a target voting age group and stand up the VP candidate. He/She will be repeating a script instead of reading naturally due to acting :) This may help bring the gen Z and possibly other age groups to come out and vote in increasing numbers perhaps.

Image

MAGAMania Baby !! :rotfl:
Image
vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4004
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by vera_k »

Garooda wrote: 20 Jan 2024 01:14 Vivek has not openly criticized Trump compared to other candidates besides the usual jabs here and there during his political campaign and several speeches.
He set himself apart by being the only one on that first debate who raised the hand to being willing to pardon Trump without reservation if he was VP.

Although supporter of a vigorous right wing foreign policy, NH is more measured than Trump. However, will that be enough to attract the independent women voters that she will need to win? Scant evidence, but ask your daughters and other women in your life. The obvious ticket would be NH as VP (since she's worked for him previously), but let's see.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

Mort Walker wrote: 19 Jan 2024 09:33 4. Sep 2022. Grant of $450M to PAF to upgrade & sustain their F-16 fleet.
Okay, I looked through a bunch of budget documents for 2022 and handouts from various US govt sources.

Here is my finding.

There is no OUTLAY or GRANT of $450 Million from US to Pakistan.


There is however a sale from LM to PAF. They have planes, they bought spares and upgrades.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 022-09-07/
WASHINGTON, Sept 7 (Reuters) - The U.S. State Department has approved the potential sale of F-16 aircraft sustainment and related equipment to Pakistan in a deal valued at up to $450 million, the Pentagon said on Wednesday.
The principal contractor will be Lockheed Martin Corp(LMT.N), the Pentagon said.
Here is the Grants from US to Pakistan broken down by years (used https://www.foreignassistance.gov)

Trump year Disbursements
2017 - 900 Million
2018 - 480 Million
2019 - 770 Million
2020 - 370 million
Total - 2.520 Billion Disbursed



Biden years Disbursements + ask for 2024
2021 - 250 million
2022 - 230 million
2023 - 240 million
2024 - 140 million - ask
Total - 720 million disbursed and 140 million expected for a total of 860 million
Most of Senile Bidens stuff is for healthcare, peace and security, environment, education etc.

So still not sure how Trump would be better for India, but open to learning...
Also feel free to correct me, if I got something wrong...
dsreedhar
BRFite
Posts: 387
Joined: 10 Jan 2011 06:57

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by dsreedhar »

Nice site ( https://www.foreignassistance.gov) with the info. Couple of my observations -
-A major portion of the "disbursements" during Trump period is under "DOD - FOREIGN MILITARY FINANCING (FMF) PROGRAM, PAYMENT WAIVED". In 2017 it was $255 mil, 2019 - $370 mil. We know Pak economy in dumps and has no means to make the payment. This is payment waiver rather than giving out new funds???
-Checked a few of the disbursement items and they have activity start-date in 2016 and before. Obligations / promises from prior to Trump?

My view - Trump as someone mentioned is a ego-maniac. His ego is hurt bad by the left to the extreme and he is super mad at them. India can find Trump helpful when used smartly. Use him against the common enemies/adversaries (Pak, China, islamists, leftists cabal etc). India may have to deal primarily with Trump and a handful and avoid the anti-India elements spread across the establishment. But when it comes to direct conflict of interests between India and US it can be a challenge. Need to deal with the US conservative think tank to convince Trump.
Biden is not necessarily anti-India and sane but the strings are in the hands of the anti-India elements in establishment on whom Biden is totally reliant.
Last edited by dsreedhar on 20 Jan 2024 03:49, edited 3 times in total.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

Yeah, I tried looking for documents, but none in open source. But this seemed like a definitive source.

Anyhoo, contrary to popular belief the bottom line is Trump was more charitable to Pakistan than Biden is.
Last edited by Cybaru on 20 Jan 2024 03:51, edited 1 time in total.
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10042
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

Those are in FIscal Years FY:

2009-2017: Obama
2018-2021: Trump
2022-2025: Biden

2023 Data is incomplete. Look at the site in detail. The Pak aid of $450M will be updated later.
2024 budget not allocated yet. Continuing Resolution until 01 MAR.

FY 2019 was the only year Pak got more under Trump due to the NDAA allocation being FMS payment waiver. It was also a year when Trump had to give in to demands as congress wouldn’t approve $52B for the border wall causing a nearly 6 week government shutdown.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20782
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Karan M »

vijayk wrote: 15 Jan 2024 22:14 VR is done
Nikki is empty head mostly propped up by media, Democrats and some Independents

Trump will scam his followers (he has done that before)

Democracy ends once he is elected is nonsensical idiocy ...

https://twitter.com/FreeSpeechIre/statu ... 6032846910
The Irish government wants to pass a law that could see you or your loved ones jailed for possession of memes, cartoons or any content that could be deemed "hateful".

The Bill includes no definition of hate and is wide open to abuse by bad actors. Defend free speech – say no to this legislation

This is what is ending Democracy
https://freespeechireland.ie/TakeAction/
VijayK when responding to Cybaru or for that matter any fellow poster, be polite.

The moment you start attacking their views in such language you will elicit a response and then it becomes an admin hassle.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2932
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

Mort Walker wrote: 20 Jan 2024 03:49 Those are in FIscal Years FY:

2009-2017: Obama
2018-2021: Trump
2022-2025: Biden

2023 Data is incomplete. Look at the site in detail. The Pak aid of $450M will be updated later.
2024 budget not allocated yet. Continuing Resolution until 01 MAR.

FY 2019 was the only year Pak got more under Trump due to the NDAA allocation being FMS payment waiver. It was also a year when Trump had to give in to demands as congress wouldn’t approve $52B for the border wall causing a nearly 6 week government shutdown.
But still more under Trump!
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10042
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

Not necessarily. FY 23 not updated yet. FY24 & FY25 remain to be seen. Need to add US funding for Jaish-Al-Adl. Trump was also obligated to pay Pak for Afghanistan transit by Bush-II & Obama.
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10042
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

Also referencing POTUS speaking makes no difference. Only their actions towards India counts. Trump last year stated he wanted to open a Hindu Holocaust museum in DC. Today Biden tells reporters, "I tell every young man that's telling me, 'I'm thinking of getting married. You have any advice?' I said, 'Yeah, pick a family with five sisters or more.'" :mrgreen: :rotfl:
Last edited by Mort Walker on 20 Jan 2024 04:14, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply