Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

[vera_k]

About time, the khangressi governments of yester years were more focussed on creating favourable space for themselves. resulting in a huge loss to Indian carriers while the west Asian carriers became bigger and their transit hubs [ abu dhabi and dubai] one of the biggest in the world mainly because of passenger inflows to the Indian sub continent.. we never used our market power in our favour

I would say that Dubai and the like have benefitted from Indian traffic because of lots of individual decisions to avoid travelling through Europe due to the lack of transit privileges for Indian citizens at European airports.
Could the Indian government have foreseen and taken advantage of this tightening of regulations in Europe? Perhaps, but it would have required privatizing Air India in the early 90s or so when there were other matters of higher priority to deal with.

[bala]

New Integrated Terminal Building of Tiruchirappalli International Airport ready for inauguration

The much-awaited New Integrated Terminal Building of Tiruchirappalli International Airport is set to be inaugurated by PM Modi on Jan 02. Tiruchirappalli International Airport is the second largest airport in terms of International Passenger traffic in Tamil Nadu. The New Terminal Building has 60 check-in counters, 5 Baggage carousels, 60 arrival immigration counters, and 44 departure emigration counters, 19 X- His Machines, and VIP Lounges. The design of the new terminal building inherently showcases the local heritage of Trichy. The Rs 1,000-crore terminal depicts several art forms including the Kolam Art and colours of Srirangam Ranganathar Temple. The other theme artworks depict the connection of India to rest of the world through its dynamic external facade and splendid interiors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm00yWEkICU

// one scene shows women with jadu sweeping the floors. This is pretty archaic in nature, when will they graduate to modern cleaning machines. Most international airports use a machine that cleans, waters the floors in a single sweep, keeping the floor spic and span. These women are probably working for the local politico.

[KL Dubey]

I would say that Dubai and the like have benefitted from Indian traffic because of lots of individual decisions to avoid travelling through Europe due to the lack of transit privileges for Indian citizens at European airports.

Traveling through Europe to where ?

Nearly all Indian citizens transiting through Europe are heading to North America. No Indian citizen requires transit paperwork for that. The same applies for the Pacific route.

Arab carriers benefit because they offer rock-bottom prices and connect directly to more Indian cities than just the large metros. This is really where Air India and other Indian carriers need to push out the arabs.

[rajkumar]

Arab carriers benefit because they offer rock-bottom prices and connect directly to more Indian cities than just the large metros. This is really where Air India and other Indian carriers need to push out the arabs.

Absolutely...

[vera_k]

Traveling through Europe to where ?

Nearly all Indian citizens transiting through Europe are heading to North America. No Indian citizen requires transit paperwork for that. The same applies for the Pacific route.

The transit paperwork for Europe depends on individual situation. I was denied boarding once when traveling on an expired green card for example. Emirates happily flew me to the USA at the time.

Another incident this time for my neighbor's wife who was traveling on a H4 visa. A delay in Europe meant the passengers were hosted in a hotel, except for the Indian passengers on a visa who spent their time at the airport.

If you check the prices, you'll see the routes through Europe are the one with rock bottom prices these days and also have extremely poor customer service at their hubs to boot. Getting a low price on one of the Middle East or Asian carriers is like striking gold. Some say the poor service at European airports is because the workforce is unionized, but it leaves a bad taste no matter the cause.

[KL Dubey]

Traveling through Europe to where ?

Nearly all Indian citizens transiting through Europe are heading to North America. No Indian citizen requires transit paperwork for that. The same applies for the Pacific route.

The transit paperwork for Europe depends on individual situation. I was denied boarding once when traveling on an expired green card for example. Emirates happily flew me to the USA at the time.

Another incident this time for my neighbor's wife who was traveling on a H4 visa. A delay in Europe meant the passengers were hosted in a hotel, except for the Indian passengers on a visa who spent their time at the airport.

If you check the prices, you'll see the routes through Europe are the one with rock bottom prices these days and also have extremely poor customer service at their hubs to boot. Getting a low price on one of the Middle East or Asian carriers is like striking gold. Some say the poor service at European airports is because the workforce is unionized, but it leaves a bad taste no matter the cause.

True, I was talking about the rock-bottom prices in the past that allowed the arab carriers to grab market share. Now that is no longer possible since the US and other countries have forced the arab carriers to bring prices up.

As for the transit issues, right now the rules are pretty clear. I doubt anyone would be denied boarding for visa-related reasons. But I do agree the service is overall poor, most importantly when something goes wrong.

The arabs will happily fly you anywhere, especially since a portion of your ticket price inevitably goes towards funding jihad to kill/harm/convert hindoos. I think more than 50% of emirates customers are hindoos paying for jihad. I do agree its a great jihadi business model.

[vera_k]

Visa issues are rampant even now because the rules are clear as mud. Just look at any travel forum with Indians asking questions about transiting through Europe.

As for that other statement, long as India doesn't swirch to gobae gas all over, it is technically supporting jihad by buying oil from the gulf. What's so specisl about the airlines then?

[chetak]

Photo by #JAL pax @wmanzione clearly shows extensive collision damage to #A350 after hitting #Dash8 in a runway incursion at HND #Japan #aircrash

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... da-airport

[SriKumar]

All passengers and crew survived. I think the evacuation took less than 2 minutes. A miracle of orderly evacuation if there was one. The cabin crew must have reacted as soon as they heard the collision with Dash 8.

[chetak]

All passengers and crew survived. I think the evacuation took less than 2 minutes. A miracle of orderly evacuation if there was one. The cabin crew must have reacted as soon as they heard the collision with Dash 8.

SriKumar ji,

But, out of six in the coast guard plane, the Dash 8, only one survived.

[sanjaykumar]

The key is presently evacuation.

I don’t think Chinese Indian or western passengers would have all survived. Remarkable.

[vera_k]

More here-

A jet's carbon-composite fiber fuselage burned on a Tokyo runway. Is the material safe?

Maybe tests in India are in order to check whether this holds given the skepticism. This plane was a A350, which may have had more stringent testing in the EU.

Aircraft manufacturers are supposed to show that their planes can be evacuated in 90 seconds with half the exits blocked, although skeptics question the accuracy of U.S. government-run tests.

[vera_k]

Contrary to impressions of a fast evacuation, it took 18 minutes to evacuate the plane.

18 Minutes to Evacuate a Burning Plane: Success Story or Cautionary Tale?

[vera_k]

Why keep your seat belts on? You never know when the workers "forgot" use nuts and bolts when assembling the plane.

Alaska Airlines grounds 737s after a piece of a plane wall detached mid-air

[drnayar]

About time, the khangressi governments of yester years were more focussed on creating favourable space for themselves. resulting in a huge loss to Indian carriers while the west Asian carriers became bigger and their transit hubs [ abu dhabi and dubai] one of the biggest in the world mainly because of passenger inflows to the Indian sub continent.. we never used our market power in our favour

I would say that Dubai and the like have benefitted from Indian traffic because of lots of individual decisions to avoid travelling through Europe due to the lack of transit privileges for Indian citizens at European airports.
Could the Indian government have foreseen and taken advantage of this tightening of regulations in Europe? Perhaps, but it would have required privatizing Air India in the early 90s or so when there were other matters of higher priority to deal with.

Not true for *all* European airports but some like Germany yes

[vera_k]

I think only Schipol is relatively trouble free, also because they have accommodation within the airport if flights are delayed.

Otherwise, its cross your fingers and hope things go smoothly at other European airports. Other than students or newcomers, people have learnt not to take the chance.

For instance -
Detained while traveling from US to India

[pravula]

We ran into this issue two days ago. Lufthansa gave us boarding passes, but Chennai baggage people caught it. We had a connecting flight from Frankfurt to Munich before flying to US and no transit visa. Had to cancel the trip and rebook through Etihad. Expensive “lesson”

[Mollick.R]

around 15 day old article, but still posting for records............

India seeks four for each extra seat allowed to Dubai airlines

By Arindam Majumder, ET Bureau Last Updated: Dec 26, 2023, 07:18:00 AM IST

New Delhi: India has sought four seats for its carriers against every extra seat it allows Dubai-based airlines to operate to the country, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

The demand is said to be unprecedented as international aviation trade is typically a bilateral process, based on the reciprocal exchange of rights by states.

Under the bilateral air service agreement inked between the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and India in January 2014, airlines of both nations are allowed to operate a total of 66,000 seats per week between Dubai and 15 Indian cities.

Both Indian and the UAE airlines such as Emirates and Flydubai have exhausted this quota, leaving no scope for any increase in flights.

The UAE had asked the ministry of civil aviation to raise the number of seats for Dubai by another 50,000.

A senior official said the government wanted to create a more favourable position for Indian airlines on international routes.

"UAE-based airlines use these allocations for Sixth Freedom traffic to Europe and North America, which have higher ticket value. Indian airlines mostly stick to point-to-point service to Dubai," the official said. "Hence, there is a requirement for more parity in policy (to) favour Indian airlines."

The Sixth Freedom traffic refers to passengers an airline carries from one country to another via its airports. For instance, in FY19-20, 69% of Indian passengers flying to Europe and North America travelled through West Asian hubs such as Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha on foreign airlines.

Additionally, domestic carriers received no state funding even during the Covid crisis, whereas the UAE airlines are heavily supported by their governments, the person said.

The Narendra Modi government has taken a hard stance on giving more access to West Asian airlines in order to give Indian carriers such as Air India and IndiGo more of a level playing field on medium- and long-haul routes to Europe and North America.
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Read full article from here//
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 277112.cms

[vera_k]

If I interpret this article correctly, this means the leg between India and West Asia will be served by airlines based out of India. Maybe the best that can be done, but probably not as lucrative as seeking to create a hub for Indian carriers somewhere in West Asia.

[sanman]

These alarming problems are happening at a time when India is buying an unprecedented number of passenger aircraft -- should we be worried?

[vera_k]

3/4ths of what India is buying is from Airbus. If Boeing comes under pressure and faces order cancellations, there would be chance to jump the queue so to speak and accelerate delivery of some badly needed aircraft.

[vera_k]

On cue almost -
Boeing Stock Gains As Budding Indian Airline Orders 150 737 Max Jets

Boeing (BA) announced an order for 150 of its 737 Max airplanes early Thursday from India-based Akasa Air.

[Rakesh]

TASL and Mahindra Aerospace secure additional manufacturing deals from Airbus
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 751520.ece
18 Jan 2024

[Rakesh]

India needs 2,840 new aircraft, 41,000 pilots in next 20 years: Airbus forecast
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 964492.cms
18 Jan 2024

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/IndianTechGuide/status/17 ... 05239?s=20 ---> Tata, Airbus has signed a deal to manufacture H125 single engine helicopters in Vadodara, Gujarat.

https://x.com/amit6060/status/1750482282559701411?s=20 ---> The deal is in response to India's high demand for single-engine helicopters. Airbus will deliver the first 16 aircraft from its final assembly line in Seville, Spain within four years. The subsequent 40 aircraft will be manufactured and assembled by TASL in India

https://x.com/amit6060/status/1750482494971945131?s=20 ---> UDAN scheme is a sure-shot game-changer and is proving to be a turning point for helicopters in India.

[Jay]

https://x.com/IndianTechGuide/status/17 ... 05239?s=20 ---> Tata, Airbus has signed a deal to manufacture H125 single engine helicopters in Vadodara, Gujarat.

Rakesh ji, what will this deal do to our own LUH. We are at the cusp of completing trials and entering series production and I'm afraid this deal with Tata will usurp LUH's civilian market sales. More worryingly, now our import pasand generals will also start advocating for this bird under atmanirbhar model.

[vera_k]

This looks to be smaller than the LUH. I'm surprised that even this big of a size is contemplated for the civilian market, but they must have done their market research.

[isubodh]

https://x.com/IndianTechGuide/status/17 ... 05239?s=20 ---> Tata, Airbus has signed a deal to manufacture H125 single engine helicopters in Vadodara, Gujarat.

Rakesh ji, what will this deal do to our own LUH. We are at the cusp of completing trials and entering series production and I'm afraid this deal with Tata will usurp LUH's civilian market sales. More worryingly, now our import pasand generals will also start advocating for this bird under atmanirbhar model.

At the same time it puts some pressure on HAL to price LUH competitively and look outside to expand market.

[Rakesh]

This is indeed for the civilian market...

Airbus partners with Tata Group to set up India’s first helicopter Final Assembly Line in the private sector
https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/pres ... helicopter
26 January 2024

https://x.com/BharatShaktiBSI/status/17 ... 27348?s=20 --->

* Airbus ties up @TataCompanies to set up India’s first helicopter Final Assembly Line (FAL) in private sector.

* FAL will produce H125 helicopter from its civil range for India & export to some of the neighbouring countries.

[vsunder]

It is hard to believe and see such sights in my lifetime. Amausi airport was a tiny, tin shed of an airport on the Lucknow to Kanpur narrow two lane road 60 years. You took a Fokker Friendship F-27 turboprop out of Lucknow to Delhi then. The novelty of the Fokker was cabin pressurization as the DC-3 Dakotas one flew had zero cabin pressurization. The Rolls Royce Dart engine that powered the Fokker had less vibration and the flight was relatively quieter than the DC-3(Dakota). Sometimes one took the Fokker out of Kanpur. Yesterday the same Amausi airport now renamed Chaudhary Charan Singh airport, Lucknow got a brand new international terminal T3 which was inaugurated by PM Modi. The airport is run by the Adani group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLGYMNSLSJc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxzMTIoe5MM

Today the narrow two lane road which I remember too well is well on the way to be converted to a 6 lane limited access expressway which will allow a commuter to travel to Kanpur from Lucknow in 45mins a journey that took 2.5 hours in those old days. The expressway is to be opened between June and December 2025.

There was that lone flight from Lucknow to Delhi. The tiny airport would come to life for that flight and then go back to sleep. Ther was no security at all, you just walked to the plane with no baggage or body search and no X-ray machines.

[vsunder]

Another new terminal that was inaugurated is also a civilian enclave inside an IAF station at Adampur(Jalandhar). Adampur was in the thick of action in both 1965 and 1971 with strike missions from Adampur.

Here are some videos after the opening two days ago. The demand is now for flights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK8qXcjS1VU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5tUYub4Enk

Delhi airport T1 was also inaugurated after refurbishing. Kolhapur also got a new terminal. Kadapa in AP, Hubli in KA had the foundation stone laid for new terminals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuobyziFqQI

[rajkumar]

India Prepares For ‘One Airspace’: Unified Air Traffic Control Plans Set In Motion - What It Means

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 084063.cms