Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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Zynda
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Zynda »

vsunder wrote: 10 Feb 2024 04:34 6 Multi Tracking Projects have been Sanctioned on IR in last days after new budget
Vsunder, thanks for the updates...miss these posts of yours here. I hope in the near future (< 2-3 months), SBC-MAS will be fully 130 kph (of course, there will be speed limitations on ghat sections, city limits & possibly on many station limits). But I hope that with quadrupling, IR is planning on at least 160 if not 200 kph speed limit (would probably save on reworks)...but for 200 kph operations, lot of upgrades on signalling (kavach, in-cab signalling, auto signalling), possibly using higher strength rails, strengthening the bridges (many bridges were upgraded recently for 130 speed limit...hoping the strengthening was done enough to take care of higher speeds as well) and track fencing among other things.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by vsunder »

@Zynda: In Nov 2023, SWR had already upped the sectional speed from Bangalore to Jolarpet to 130 kmph, need permission from the Railway Board to operate trains at 130kmph permanently. Here:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 546153.cms

SR is doing a survey to quadruple Arrakonam to Jolarpet.

Regarding Kavach, 136 locos all on SCR are retro-fitted with Kavach which is operational on SCR on about 1400km mainly for testing and trials. It is complicated to retro fit Kavach on locos. Look at the technical document linked to this post which is written by SCR engineers and shows how it is done. Openings have to be cut out in the loco for wires and clamps welded etc. I am not sure OEMs like Alstom and GE will allow such modifications by third party on their locos. CLR built Indian locos no such problems for WAP and WAG locos. Plus people think they can go and buy 1900 Kavaches from the kirana store and the Gobarmint is stupid and so on. You need to not only train loco staff to use it, but also at every ELS(Electric Loco sheds) across the country you need to train staff to repair and maintain Kavach systems. Plus you need track maintainers who can maintain track side transponders and repeaters for Kavach n deep cuts and tunnels. You need transponders as the UHF signals get attenuated in deep cuts and possibly will result in automatic brake application if telemetry is lost. Just like distributed power on which I had made a very long post some time back. Distributed power will be seen a lot on the DFCs. I know a sizeable amount of Distributed power units have been retrofitted into elocos in Ajni Electric Loco shed at Nagpur.

Contrary to what people have written Kavach has already been installed on 139 locos of SCR. A long time ago I had written two long essays on Distributed power and Locotrol(GE devices) and on EoTT(End of Train Telemtry) that does away with the last van and will be also tried on the DFCs. Kavach is similar. Kavach was tried on the section from Nizamabad to Nanded. One has to be careful with all this. I am just too tired to reproduce my Distributed power essay. So let me leave you with some thoughts.


1. It is not just rapidly fitting Kavach to locos, do we have loco staff trained properly on Locos fitted with Kavach? How easy is it to retro fit Kavach to existing locos? Read the pdf link below developed by SCR engineers

2. Do we have trained staff who can repair and do maintenance on Kavach device on the many ELSs(Electric Loco sheds) around India.

3. Do we have trained track men and track maintainers who will maintain track side track transponders and track repeaters? You see how do you know your signal will not attenuate in a deep cut and inside a tunnel? You need trackside transponders in such locations. What if SCR and it did try Kavach on flat regions and it failed up the Bhor ghat out of Mumbai towards Pune, inside tunnels, then Babaji ka thulla since you had quickly put in Kavach all over and now it fails on certain sections due to terrain. Then the same people who told Gobarmint to buy 1900 Kavaches at the neighbourhood kirana store will say Gobarmint is full of dumb idiots etc etc that they never tested it in Bhor ghat.

4. In the 1970s IR had tried putting in such devices though a primitive one on the Delhi-Howrah route and found track side equipment stolen due to their copper content. Look at the DFCCIL twitter feed in the last month. At Mirzapur on the already built EDFC and on the Makarpura to Sanand section they just broke up gangs doing exactly that, stealing copper wire and trackside components.

IR in the early 1970s also tried distributed power where two locos are connected by Locotrol devices and talk to one another. Both MG at Lumding on YDM-2 and on the DBK railway freight heavy with iron ore in Odisha on WDM-2 BG. They found that maintenance was a big issue with equipment needing very good maintenance. These are lessons learned and eventually IR will roll out equipment when they have a good maintenance and training on this equipment in place and they are sure that the equipments does not fail due to weather and terrain.

5. Lastly IR has said they want private industry to build Kavach devices. They are willing to give designs to European and Japanese companies to build these systems. I am not sure if Alstom will agree or permission is needed to change aspects of OEM design to put in a Kavach system. This is connected to the brakes. So if something happens, Alstom can turn around and say, hey you tampered with our braking system and so we are not liable if an accident happened. Bad things can happen. Wag-9 is Gobarmint of Eendia so OK, what about the GE and Alstom products, will these guys agree if changes are made? Just asking here?? Apne ko kuch pata nahi hai, I do not know any Laplace transform or Control Theory but just asking hiar since so many people know Kantrol theory and can dejign Kavach ka baap.

Official Press Release by Govt. on Kavach deployment

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePa ... ID=1983975

Problems and Challenges installing TCAS system Kavach(South Central Railway staff on which the trials for Kavach and deployment on locos was done)

https://iriset.railnet.gov.in/content/g ... ticle4.pdf
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by vsunder »

Automatic Signalling has been installed along the entire length of the DFCs. All train control is done from two futuristic OCCs Operational Control Centers, one at Prayagraj for the EDFC and one outside Ahemdabad at Sabarmati for the WDFC. The are gigantic computer screens that locate every rake across the network. DFCs stations are 40km apart and have no relation to IR stations. It would be stupid to use absolute block. Then a train would have to wait till a train ahead of it cleared 40km and the block was clear of traffic. Instead Automatic signals have been installed every 2km and multiple rakes can enter a block between two DFC stations. In Punjab where the EDFC is single lined due to Land acquisition issues, EDFC stations are closer within 10-15 km to facilitate crossing of freight rakes. But all the rest stations are 40km apart. DFC rakes ar 1500m almost 1 mile long as opposed to Indian Railways which have 800m rakes. These extra long rakes need extra long loop lines and so you will see loop lines far longer at these new DFC stations than standard loop lines at IR stations. DFC rakes usually are 13,000 tonnes as opposed to IR rakes at 5,000 tonnes. DFC rakes travel at an average speed of 50-75kmph with a top speed of 100kmph. The average speed of IR rakes is 25kmph. Trials are going on from Vadodara(Makarpura) over the Narmada river and bypassing Surat with a new bridge over the Tapti on Surat outskirts to Sanjan, south of Surat between Surat and Billimora. From Sanjan to Palghar MH the WDFC is complete. Here is a twitter post from DFCCIL about these trials. Now only two sections are left to complete on the WDFC. Sanand(Ahmedabad) to Makarpura(Vadodara) 138km L&T+Sojitz(Japan) Corp. Scheduled to finish in 2 months March 2024, Tata Construction Vaitarna to JNPT, Nhava Sheva port Mumbai 109km who knows about that see my posts above ^^^^ EDFC from Ludhiana to Son Nagar Bihar complete and the 135km connector double lined with high mast electric poles to facilitate movement of double stack container freight from Dadri EDFC to Rewari WDFC around Delhi NCR which was the most challenging section to build through the Arravallis is also opened since October 2023. So only Tata has to finish on their 109km section before the WDFC+EDFC is fully done.
The twitter post talks about Automatic Signalling

https://twitter.com/RailMinIndia/status ... gr%5Etweet

For the moment they have to offload WDFC freight somewhere before Vaitarna for it to proceed towards Mumbai JNPT port on IR lines as Tata has not built its 109 km section. ^^^

Notice container freight WDFC is container freight heavy. Notice single stacked containers as the IR legacy lines around Mumbai OHE is of standard height allowing only single stacks, while all of the WDFC can take double stacked container freight. All spur lines off the WDFC towards Gujarat ports have been built so that the OHE system can accomodate double stacked container freight, towards Pipavav(Maersk), Mundhra(Adani), Kandla and Dahej. All are connected to WDFC and so too Hazira which handles petrochemicals and so mast in principal can be standard height but is extra long here too.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by rajkumar »

₹ 12,000 CRORE MULTITRACKING PROJECTS APPROVED BY RAILWAYS जानिए क्या क्या हैं ROUTES

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Aldonkar »

vsunder wrote: 11 Feb 2024 20:08
Just wanted to express my thanks to vsunder-ji for all the informative posts on the railway upgrades and the road upgrades in a different thread. It is particularly useful to those of us based abroad. It is particularly noticeable the enormous improvements in the last ten years!
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by sanjaykumar »

I’m impressed by the vastly improved livery of Indian trains. Previously it was utilitarian, and that’s being charitable.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Jay »

Aldonkar wrote: 12 Feb 2024 19:13
vsunder wrote: 11 Feb 2024 20:08
Just wanted to express my thanks to vsunder-ji for all the informative posts on the railway upgrades and the road upgrades in a different thread. It is particularly useful to those of us based abroad. It is particularly noticeable the enormous improvements in the last ten years!
I second this sentiment here. Apart from the hard work from the govt and the people on the ground, to people like vsunder ji cataloging the progress and the context behind these changes, we are thankful for everyone in between for these contributions.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Nikhil_Naya »

vsunder wrote: 11 Feb 2024 20:08 . So only Tata has to finish on their 109km section before the WDFC+EDFC is fully done.
The twitter post talks about Automatic Signalling

https://twitter.com/RailMinIndia/status ... gr%5Etweet

For the moment they have to offload WDFC freight somewhere before Vaitarna for it to proceed towards Mumbai JNPT port on IR lines as Tata has not built its 109 km section. ^^^

Notice container freight WDFC is container freight heavy. Notice single stacked containers as the IR legacy lines around Mumbai OHE is of standard height allowing only single stacks, while all of the WDFC can take double stacked container freight. All spur lines off the WDFC towards Gujarat ports have been built so that the OHE system can accomodate double stacked container freight, towards Pipavav(Maersk), Mundhra(Adani), Kandla and Dahej. All are connected to WDFC and so too Hazira which handles petrochemicals and so mast in principal can be standard height but is extra long here too.
Have seen the WAG12 and the WAG9Twin both operate on freight routes. My understanding is that while the WAG12 can have higher sustained speeds due to the "Bo-Bo + Bo-Bo" arrangement, the WAG9 Twin will actually have highter tractive effort due to the 'Co-Co+Co-Co' arrangement. So, would the DFC have separate loco sheds for these loco's as well - like in higher gradient sections the G9Twins and in the plains with lower gradient start sections the G12?
Also the forthcoming Seimens 9000 HP electrics will also have better mainline speeds and traction - so will that be on the main IR network or the DFC's?
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by vsunder »

Thanks all.

A large number of antiquated frame lever signalling equipment and equipment for changing points many dating from 1935 has been replaced with modern electronic equipment where paths through a busy yard can be set with a few clicks of a mouse. Kanpur yard along with Tundla and Mughalsarai are some of the busiest yards in India and these pictures are when new electronic equipment to control train movement through Kanpur was installed in 2022. Ditto for Tundla around that time. Some of the equipment in Kanpur yard dates to 1935, all got replaced. Freight on the Howrah--Delhi line esp. coal rakes that do not have to go into the busy Kanpur Juhi marshalling yard no longer does that as they take the new EDFC tracks that bypass Kanpur entirely freeing up the yard for only freight that terminates at Kanpur, passenger trains and freight towards Lucknow that originates at Delhi NCR. Kanpur Control Center inaugurated 2022


https://twitter.com/CPRONCR/status/1514203257052168195


The DFCs are even more modern as they have two completely centralized operations centers at Prayagraj for the EDFC and Sabarmati (Ahmedabad) for the WDFC.

Operations Control Center WDFC, opened 2023 near Sabarmati D Cabin Ahmedabad:

https://www.appendix3exam.com/2023/07/d ... entre.html

Operations Control Center EDFC--- Inaugurated 3 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J53mXk2ATbI
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by vsunder »

Train to Kashmir

PM Modi inaugurated the Banihal to Sangaldan section 48km two days ago. Now only 63 km is left to open to connect Kanyakumari to Baramulla. Electrification is also complete between Baramulla and Sangaldan. Out of the 63km left only 11km is left for track linking, all civil works are over including the famous Chenab bridge at Reasi which is in the last section of 63km left to operationalize, most likely by year end. Anyhow by opening Banihal and Sangaldan, the Kashmir valley is connected to Jammu district by train. Scenes on the first passenger train from Srinagar to Sangaldan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIjgmWtVRVk

A lot of track is ballastless on this line. Section left Sangaldan----Reasi(Chenab bridge)----Shri Vaishno devi Katra(63km)
Last edited by vsunder on 22 Feb 2024 03:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by A_Gupta »

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=2001857
Indian Railways achieves 1297.38 MT freight loading till January 2024

Freight loading increases by 53.92 MT as compared to the same period of last year

Railways earns Rs 140623.4 Crore from Freight loading during April 2023- Jan.2024

Freight Earnings increases by Rs 5235.30 Crore as compared to the same period of last year

Railways achieves Freight Loading of 142.70 MT in Jan 2024 - an improvement of 6.43% over last year freight loading for the same period
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