India-Qatar Fallout: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

Kaypius making a wild insinuation on Twitter and then getting (rightfully!) called out for it. When the 8 veterans were stuck in Qatar, all he did was whine everyday about the Govt's impotency in the matter. Now that the Govt freed the 8 veterans, he is still whining!

https://x.com/realkaypius/status/175690 ... 87845?s=20 ---> India signed a long-term SPA with #Qatar for LNG a few days ago, in our quest for "self-sufficiency" in the energy sector.

Responses to the above tweet...

https://x.com/bsdhanoa/status/1756924853347631289?s=20 ---> I think the Government equates self sufficiency with assured supply.

https://x.com/KaneDoAble/status/1756942 ... 88830?s=20 ---> And now subtle insinuation on "blood money"....

If this - according to your insinuation - is blood money, then this only goes to show how far Modi Government is willing to go & pay the price, to rescue 8 civilians / navy vets. Men of Honour......

https://x.com/KaneDoAble/status/1756941 ... 85512?s=20 ---> Even after the Navy vets themselves disclosing that this would not have been possible without direct intervention of PM Modi & 24/7 following up by MEA..... You refuse to thank Modi or retract your comments made on Modi & GoI earlier. Deep hate, Sir. Respect.

https://x.com/Aks1071648/status/1756911 ... 46674?s=20 ---> So after all the barking you've done against the Government, majority agenda, will you now congratulate the effort they put in to get your buddies back from your Qatari secular buddies.

[chetak]

here is another gem from this guy who it seems is also a harsh mander fan

Indian democracy come in all forms: with woke, leli, and urban naxal varieties dominating the landscape

@realkaypius·Feb 4

This nomination is made by the PM himself to the President. No formal recommendations are necessary.

Awarding the highest civilian honour to a divisive politician who drove a communal wedge through the heart of India, leading to vandalism & riots?

Spare me the whataboutery pls.

[JTull]

Just goes to show that it was never about the Naval personnel, but it's just opposition of one person!

[Yogi_G]

A diplomatic victory indeed, but there is something that doesnt feel right about awarding Qatar a 20 year deal. The Turkey-Qatar-Pak-Azerbaijan nexus has now received our round shaped objects to apply pressure on when they please. This and the ships procurement from Turkey, unexplainable and something doesnt seem right here still. I truly hope I am wrong on this!

[Pratyush]

The thing with this has deal is that both India and Qatar are now in each other's pocket.

They need to honour the deal with us.

The fixed price deal with Qatar gives us the benchmark to negotiate the price of gas from other suppliers as well.

All in all a good development from the POV of long term energy security of India.

What we now need is a shipbuilding industry to build large Gas and Oil tankers. Along with the companies to operate those ships.

[V_Raman]

We have Indian nationals by the lakhs in all these ME countries. We can deal with them without any worry about some nexus-vexus.

[JTull]

$78 billion sounds big today but by 2030, when India has doubled to $7 billion economy, it'll appear to be a great deal.

One lesson Ukraine war has taught Europe is not to rely too much on one supplier. We're transforming into a green economy with particular focus on hydrogen. Gas will be a small component of the energy mix by 2030.

[chetak]

MSA batting at one end and susu batting at the other end and both are hitting imaginary sixers.

no one is bowling or fielding.

Shah Rukh Khan denies claims by Subramanian Swamy that he facilitated the release of Navy veterans from Qatar, credits Indian govt
https://www.opindia.com/2024/02/shah-ru ... modi-govt/
13 February 2024

Regarding the reports concerning Shah Rukh Khan’s purported role in the release of India’s naval officers from Qatar, the office of Mr. Shah Rukh Khan says that any such assertions of his involvement are unfounded, emphasizing the execution of this successful resolution solely rests with the Indian government officials and unequivocally denies Mr. Khan’s participation in this matter. Additionally, all matters involving diplomacy and statecraft are best executed by our very able leaders. Mr. Khan like many other Indians is happy that the naval officers are home safe and wishes them all the best.“

[Deans]

While we have signed a long term deal with Qatar, they were unwilling to sign a deal longer than 10 years to supply Pak. That was in 2021, when the Pak economy was looking a lot better than today. Signing a long term deal with India means taking a call on the Indian economy. This is a big vote of confidence.
Germany and countries in Europe were given a similar offer, to buy at fixed prices. They declined as they felt they would be smart buying in the spot market. They got screwed when prices rose after the Ukraine war.

[Rakesh]

Two of the navy veterans who were jailed in Qatar, with Vice Admiral Suraj Berry who is the present C-in-C of the Strategic Forces Command. The photo is reversed and thus the Vice Admiral's name plate is also reversed.

https://x.com/InsightGL/status/1757254279537238238?s=20 --->

- Insurmountable smiles on the faces of course-mates are invaluable
- Welcome home #IndianNavyVeterans

[vimal]

^^ All good and dandy photos but RAW and IB Must do a thorough investigation of each of these “veterans “ about their shady employment contracts with Gelf countries. What exactly were they doing and how they were trapped (assuming they were trapped).

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/KabirTaneja/status/175723 ... 77382?s=20 ---> ‘Doval frequently visited Qatar and and used institutional intelligence channels to convince Qataris that the persons were not spying. Modi used personal ties with Qatari emir to make sure the accused are not sent to the gallows’.

[Rakesh]

Shah Rukh Khan denies claims by Subramanian Swamy that he facilitated the release of Navy veterans from Qatar, credits Indian govt
https://www.opindia.com/2024/02/shah-ru ... modi-govt/
13 February 2024

The sheer level of desperation to prove that anybody but the BJP Govt was involved in freeing these 8 men.

The Kangaroo liberals have no brains. Everything they do is viewed through a religious lens. Qatar is Muslim, Shah Rukh Khan is Muslim. So the Islamic Ummah saved the day. After all, the Yindoos are evil vermin and not to be dealt with. Must be a Muslim onlee!

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/elitepredatorss/status/17 ... 65924?s=20 ---> It is actually funny to see people who have access to people in MEA and the government say that we "bought" our veterans in exchange for the LNG deal. You all have been a pathetic lot since the day the news of veterans being arrested came to the public. It becomes evidently clear why this civilization has suffered so much in the past. Treachery hasn't dealt with an iron fist since then, I hope the trend changes. Now since you all are crying out really loud that we bribed Qataris, there need to be certain fact-checks in the response.

India's deal with QatarEnergy is likely (not certain as the full disclosure isn't out) priced at around a 12% slope to crude oil. The price levels are legendary, why? Because it is one of the lowest for any oil-linked contracts signed in recent years. It's a pioneer kind of deal which will show the way to the whole world and help immensely the whole world population due to a fairly regulated price cap. To all those who were crying Vishwaguru, Vishwaguru - That's a Vishwaguru move right there for you retards.

And Yes, OLD MAN AND HIS TEAM DID IT.

COPE HARD, CRY HARDER.

JAI HIND!

[Pratyush]

Why would the Indian Navy veterans spy for Israel and not for India?

That is the question that has to be answered.

[Rakesh]

Why would the Indian Navy veterans spy for Israel and not for India?

That is the question that has to be answered.

Answered by Doval if the article is to be believed ---> viewtopic.php?p=2613385#p2613385

[Manish_P]

Why would the Indian Navy veterans spy for Israel and not for India?

That is the question that has to be answered.

Answered by Doval if the article is to be believed ---> viewtopic.php?p=2613385#p2613385

Not related to these veterans (who i think had been falsely set up by the Paki/Irani/Chinese bloc if not the Qataris themselves), but traditionally spies have done it for various reasons - mostly for money and to lesser extent reasons like love, political, moral...

Then there are those who got honey trapped (as the recent Russian embassy case showed)

If they can betray their own country then why can't they do it for a third party.

As to the Israelis, they have a track record of having recruited agents from different nationalities. Earlier till the 80s or so they used to do it themselves a lot as they had a larger presence and roots across Europe and the gulf and could pass off their citizens as locals. The big powers are also good at doing false flag recruitment - they manage to convince the person that he is doing it for the good of his own country or even that he is doing it for his own country when actually he is doing it for them.

[Rakesh]

Shah Rukh Khan denies claims by Subramanian Swamy that he facilitated the release of Navy veterans from Qatar, credits Indian govt
https://www.opindia.com/2024/02/shah-ru ... modi-govt/
13 February 2024

https://x.com/Badass_Superdad/status/17 ... 22729?s=20 ---> Not many people know this but when Vikram lander failed to make a soft landing during Chandrayaan 2, Modi-ji personally requested SRK assistance during Chandrayaan 3 which led to the success of the mission. Humble as always SRK refused to take any credit. Respect.

[Manish_P]

[drnayar]

Then there are those who got honey trapped (as the recent Russian embassy case showed)

whats this Russian embassy case ?

[skaranam]

Then there are those who got honey trapped (as the recent Russian embassy case showed)

whats this Russian embassy case ?

https://indianexpress.com/article/citie ... y-9143604/

[Deans]

As to the Israelis, they have a track record of having recruited agents from different nationalities. Earlier till the 80s or so they used to do it themselves a lot as they had a larger presence and roots across Europe and the gulf and could pass off their citizens as locals. The big powers are also good at doing false flag recruitment - they manage to convince the person that he is doing it for the good of his own country or even that he is doing it for his own country when actually he is doing it for them.

The Israelis try not to use Jews in the target country for spying. If they are caught it leads to Anti Semitism in that country. However, Jews are
expected to help out in a small way when approached. Quite possible Qatar was a false flag.

[Aditya_V]

My 2 Cents here,

1) I doubt Qatar has a Submarine Building Programme- just like their fighters Western Governments will make them do outright purchases.

2) Even if they did Israelis would get the info from the so called Italian builders, right from the design etc.

Clearly to me it looks like some compromise outside the Public eye.

The best part is Hamas leadership is embedded with US forces in Qatar and Al Jazeera Outrage Industry with many BBC, CNN reporters part of it. There is some funny game and many people accept this propaganda without any questions. Mass psyops conditioning people to think and behave in a certain way.

[SRajesh]

Adityaji
Fact remains these Ex-Naval men were working there
The nature of contract and what actually was the work can only be judged after a proper grilling ( maybe a strong word and I apologies)
But they were up to something
Rakesh can shed some light as what their relevant experiences are ( surface vessels or submerged vessel type) and what modern tech experience they have!
Something did take place there but they are back and safe.
And that's what matters
Rest let the Military Intelligence and NSA handle

[Aditya_V]

Or it could Qatar lured them there, they used a lot of Omani, Malayasian contacts to get them there, was it for Gas Deal or was it release some ISI men we had or something else. The whole issue is very murky. Clearly the 8 men were Lured to Qatar as bait.

[TVenky]

Most of the conversation in the media as well as here is based on the presumption that our 8 guys were innocent.
What if they were not innocent and they did commit a particular crime - one that can't be publicized, but still got them the severe punishment ?..
What if the 'spying story' is just a cover to much more a serious crime they might have committed ?..

[IndraD]

Most of the conversation in the media as well as here is based on the presumption that our 8 guys were innocent.
What if they were not innocent and they did commit a particular crime - one that can't be publicized, but still got them the severe punishment ?..
What if the 'spying story' is just a cover to much more a serious crime they might have committed ?..

is that for real?
What evidence do you have to support Qatar over our own IN personnel? Has Qatar given any information in public domain on this?
And if that is true why would they release our people?

[Sachin]

What evidence do you have to support Qatar over our own Ex-IN personnel?

FYI. The 8 people were ex-IN personnel. They after retirement does not represent the Indian Navy any way. They had all taken up private jobs, and went voluntarily to work abroad.

[Rakesh]

Most of the conversation in the media as well as here is based on the presumption that our 8 guys were innocent.
What if they were not innocent and they did commit a particular crime - one that can't be publicized, but still got them the severe punishment ?..
What if the 'spying story' is just a cover to much more a serious crime they might have committed ?..

Have you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? It does not matter what we believe, it only matters what we can prove.

In the absence of any conclusive evidence (emphasized by Ajit Doval), on what basis are you making such an assumption? If it cannot be publicized, then why mention it in the first place? What point does self flagellation - *AFTER* freeing these 8 men - really serve?

[Rakesh]

1) I doubt Qatar has a Submarine Building Programme- just like their fighters Western Governments will make them do outright purchases.

2) Even if they did Israelis would get the info from the so called Italian builders, right from the design etc.

Lets look first at the facts:

1) The Qatari Navy wants to acquire submarines ---> https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2 ... 09fccd322e

2) The Govt of Qatar has partnered with Fincantieri of Italy to acquire a variant of the U212 Todaro Class submarine, of which four are in service with the Italian Navy, with another four more coming.

3) The U212 was developed by HDW of Germany. The technology on the boat is classified and cannot be sold to a third country. Only Germany and Italy operate this non-export U212 variant, but with a twist (which I will explain below). The export variant of the U212 submarine is the U214 and this variant has been sold to a number of countries (Greece, Portugal, South Korea) and with Turkey and Indonesia also interested in the boat. The Pakistan Navy was supposed to get the U214, but it got cancelled (reportedly thanks to Mr 10% - Asif Ali Zardari) and they went in for the Yuan Class from China.

These are the facts. Now look at the preceding and subsequent developments.

1) Remember the twist I mentioned above? Here it is ---> The Israeli Navy operates a heavily modified and customized variant of the U212 Class. She is known as the Dolphin-I Class, of which three boats are in active service. A succeeding larger variant - the Dolphin-II Class (another three boats) - is also in service. Very little is know about the Dolphin Class boats, thanks to Israel being the ultra-secretive and paranoid nation that she is (and rightfully so!). But this much is guaranteed, these class of boats carry Israel's nuclear second strike capability. A successor to the Dolphin Class - the Dakar Class - is also coming and again from HDW of Germany. Many of these boats are largely financed by Germany itself (for reparations to the State of Israel for the loot that the Nazis committed against the Jews in World War II and for the holocaust). America winks and looks the other way with Israel's submarine program

2) If I were the Israeli Navy, I would be *VERY* concerned about Qatar acquiring a variant of the U212 boat. Much of the technology in the Dolphin-I, Dolphin-II and Dakar Class have come directly from the U212 boat. Apart from Iran - who has vowed to eliminate Israel from the face of the map - Qatar is inimical to the very idea that is Israel. Qatar is also home to many Hamas leaders and also to Al Jazeera. While a number of Islamic countries (Saudi Arabia, UAE) are warming up to Israel, Qatar stands as the outlier. Strategic platforms and technology like the U212 - in the hands of an enemy - would certainly comprise the security of Israel.

3) Qatar being the oil rich nation that she is will have little to no interest in knowing the technology behind the boat. When they need a boat, they will just go out and buy one. But what Qatar would like is a platform that will be very hard to detect and which the U212 will offer to Qatar on a silver platter. And that would be completely unacceptable to the State of Israel. You cannot fight/counter/defeat something you cannot see. That is the whole point of stealth. Even worse, is Qatar knowing how the U212 operates would put Israel's nuclear strike capability into doubt.

Now here comes the insinuations/accusations/theories (and how 8 ex-Indian Navy personnel got roped into this saga);

1) Could the Israelis have gone directly to Italy to get the specifications about the variant of the U212 boat that Fincantieri was planning to sell to Qatar? 100% and it is very likely that Italy would have told Israel as well. Assuming (and that is a big assumption) Italy gave Israel the middle finger, then Israel would have no other option but to spy on the program. HDW of Germany - being the father of the U212 program - would also have to agree to this sale of classified technology to Qatar and it seems unlikely that they would, considering the relationship they have with the Israeli Navy. It is very likely that Fincantieri is selling a "sanitized" version of the U212 to Qatar. So certainly not a U214, but not a U212 either, but a U212-lite. And Qatar would not even know. Ignorance is Bliss!

2) How these 8 ex-Indian Navy personnel got roped into this, is surprising. These 8 men were working for a Qatari firm in training personnel of the Qatari Navy. The Fincantieri proposal to Qatar is very much in the infancy/discussion stages. How and why these 8 men would be involved in a discussion about submarines - between Italy and Qatar - is perplexing. Even if these 8 men were all former submariners, still on what basis would they be roped into a discussion between two countries or have access to any documents about the program? Ajit Doval provided clear evidence to Qatar which rightfully absolved the 8 men.

These 8 men were scapegoats - used by Qatar - for a larger goal/objective. Perhaps in the future, when more pieces of the puzzle come out, we will know.

[Manish_P]

^ Succinctly summarized

[Roop]

Shah Rukh Khan denies claims by Subramanian Swamy...

What the hell is wrong with SuSwa? From time to time he pulls these childish stunts (like bashing the Rafale deal etc.) that make it look like he is just an attention-seeking brat.