Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[Manish_P]

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His opinions are essentially a bus driver's criticism of how TATA buses are noisy and have poor AC etc. His criticisms are relevant, but only as feedback for iterations...it should not alter TATA's long term vision of manufacturing and selling buses globally. That is a top-down vision
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Nicely put

At least his comments are better then another veteran who yesterday chose the news of the AI controlled USAF program to rant about how we are instead working on 'focusing of Sun rays' (you can make the connection with the recent event)

[Rakesh]

His opinions are essentially a bus driver's criticism of how TATA buses are noisy and have poor AC etc. His criticisms are relevant, but only as feedback for iterations...it should not alter TATA's long term vision of manufacturing and selling buses globally. That is a top-down vision.

All the pilots of his generation (he is 1974 commission) and prior, got ready made products out the door. This was the reality till the late 90s/early 2000s. They do not believe or even understand iterative development, because imported maal (aka export quality) had ironed out all the kinks. And even when imported maal was not as per RFI spec, they would give the foreign OEM a lot of leeway to get the platform up to spec. Some examples;

* Jaguar
* MiG-29
* Mirage 2000

The first batch of these above aircraft all came in with either underpowered turbofans or sub-par avionics. But it was still allowed to enter active service. Lets not even get into the MiG-23MF fiasco! But this same leeway was never extended to the Marut or the Tejas progams. There was always something to whine and complain about. Thank goodness for the late Manohar Parrikar, otherwise there would have been no Tejas Mk1A today.

For what it's worth, the actual bus drivers of today aren't complaining about the Tejas. All interviews from 45 Sq and 18 Sq pilots were quite positive. There is no pilot on earth who's rather fly our legacy MiG-21/23/27 as compared to the Tejas.

My hope and optimism lies in this generation of pilots who will become the Air Marshals of the future. They are the ones who will truly embody Self Reliance aka Atmanirbhar Bharat because they understood iterative development and put it into practice. The success of the Mk1A will pave the way for everything else down the pipeline, especially the Tejas Mk2. And the success of the Mk2 will form the foundation of the AMCA, the TEDBF and everything else that will flow down that river.

180 Tejas Mk1As is nothing short of spectacular for the Indian Air Force. But what is even more precious than that number, will be the invaluable learning HAL and all the Tier 1, 2 and 3 suppliers will experience from fulfilling this order. It is this experience, that will be the actual shot-in-the-arm for India's military aviation industry.

[basant]

Seems someone is desperate to create a fallacy.

Let's not start this new canard, AFTER THE FACT, of 1000kg reduction in empty weight. First time hearing of this. 200-300kg ballast adjustment has been mentioned before though.

It's pretty old stuff, around the time Mk1A was proposed first. A sample:

In fact, the IAF has been advised by the Minister of Defence to induct the Tejas Mk IA instead which is to be an improved version of the Tejas Mk I and is said to be marginally more proficient. It will carry the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar from the Israeli firm ELTA Systems. Besides, it is expected to be around 1,000 kg lighter. Reports say that weight reduction of 800 kg will be achieved by redesigning the landing gear which has been described as ‘over-engineered’.

Source: SP's aviation (2015)

Sometimes, the tantrums of the services beats logic and offends anyone even with moderate intelligence. Remember NUH's all-up weight restriction? I mean, do pilots have to lift the helo on their shoulders or what? Similarly with Tejas Mk1A. If it performs as per specs, why would a ground-based air force (guy), not even navy that has to keep them afloat on a ship, should cry about weight and not the performance? The same IAF that invented a medium weight category to which both F-18s and Gripen qualify!?

[Rakesh]

How anyone call the Mk1A a marginal improvement over the Tejas Mk1 behooves logic!

* EL/M-2052 or Uttam AESA radar on Tejas Mk1A versus the EL/M-2032 radar on the Tejas Mk1.
AESA versus Doppler i.e. Optical Zoom versus Digital Zoom.
AESA radars are inherently more reliable than pulse Doppler radars.

* Missile Approach Warning Systems (MAWS) on Tejas Mk1A versus none on Tejas Mk1.

* DARE's Unified Electronic Warfare Suite (UEWS) on Tejas Mk1A versus none on Tejas Mk1.

* Self-Protection Jammer (SPJ) on Tejas Mk1A versus none on Tejas Mk1.

* Upgraded Radar Warning Receiver on the Tejas Mk1A .

On sensors alone, the Mk1A is leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk1 variant! But SP Aviation will call it "marginal" improvement! Even when reporting about the Tejas Mk1A, the import lobby @ SP Aviation cannot shake off their unabashed love for imported maal.

And these advanced sensors on the Mk1A will dictate a pilot's tactics and the employment of his/her weaponry. The Mk1A pilot will have a clear advantage over the JF-17, the J-10CE and even the F-16 Block 50/52 in the A2A domain. But it will be a marginal improvement onlee!

P.S. After the retirement of the MiG-21, guess which aircraft will have the fastest take-off time compared to anything else in the fleet? And that includes the gold plated Rafale or the upgraded Su-30MKI (Super Sukhoi) or the MiG-29UPG or the Mirage 2000I/TI or the upgraded Jaguar Darin III? Oops sorry, that will also be marginal improvement!

[srai]

^^^

* Missile Approach Warning Systems (MAWS) on Tejas Mk1A ...
…

Are we sure about this bit?

[Rakesh]

^^^

* Missile Approach Warning Systems (MAWS) on Tejas Mk1A ...
…

Are we sure about this bit?

Saar, that was my bad. I have edited my post.

[SidSom]

As per the CMD of HAL, Tejas Mk1 has a payload capacity of 3,000 kgs. And Tejas Mk1A's payload capacity is 3,500 kgs.

Ergo you can assume that the empty weight reduction is of the order of 500 kgs on the Tejas Mk1A without which it's payload cannot go up since the engine remains the same.

I think this is Brilliant. We can expect an empty weight in the range of 6K Kgs with a payload of 3500 Kgs. Wiki does say that Payload Max is 5300 Kgs for the MK1. If we were to add 500 Kgs (removed from the Empty weight ) to this Max payload, it brings it up 5800Kgs. This means that MK1A can almost take its own Body weight in payload. I think the 3000-3500 Kgs Number by CMD HAL is conservative.

One Point on the Canopy design. This is from the Paper "Tracking The Tejas: The Design Evolution Of An Indian Fighter Part-I" By I Roy and N.J. Rane
https://delhidefencereview.com/2019/02/ ... er-part-i/

The plug was to be inserted just behind the canopy where the area curve had the highest discontinuity (see Area curve in Figure 2). In addition to the plug, ADA studied a bulged canopy to improve area ruling even further. The combined effect was 6 percent lower supersonic drag, which in turn led to a 20 percent improvement in transonic acceleration and 2 percent improvement in maximum speed

A bulged Canopy is seen on MK1A. Do you think this has something to do with the above study in addition to the obvious safety factor it provides to the pilot during ejection, and better visibility.

Edited: From the same paper/article.

On the other hand, cowl geometry optimization showed good improvement in pressure recovery due to its positive impact on the local flow field near the inlet plane. The 3-door design further enhances the gains in pressure recovery. It’s also expected to facilitate improved flow rates through the auxiliary intakes during the low speed, high AoA regimes. The combination of optimized cowl geometry and 3-door design results in a 3 percent improvement in pressure recovery, which should lead to an equivalent improvement in engine performance [11]. The 3-door design can already be seen on LCA Navy Mk1 prototypes.

The new 3 door Aux intake design is seen on the MK1A.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1781314812565426203 ---> DRDO hands over first batch of indigenous Leading Edge Actuators and Airbrake Control Modules to HAL for the 83 LCA Tejas Mk1A order.

[nachiket]

Seems someone is desperate to create a fallacy.

Let's not start this new canard, AFTER THE FACT, of 1000kg reduction in empty weight. First time hearing of this. 200-300kg ballast adjustment has been mentioned before though.

Even that hasn't been true for a while now. Here is Indranil's post from 2 years ago
viewtopic.php?p=2535225#p2535225

300 kg of ballast was used when there was no radar.

With IFR probe, radar etc. that number is around 100 kgs now.

Please take unconfirmed reports about dramatic weight reduction in Mk1A with a bucketful of salt.

[Rakesh]

HAL, NAL sign tech transfer pact for Tejas engine day door production
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 94231.html
22 April 2024

With the signing of the technology transfer for Bismaleimide (BMI) Engine Bay Door (EBD), HAL can directly produce these high-temperature resistant composite parts for the series production of LCA Mk1A aircraft meeting the initial requirement of IAF squadrons, a joint statement said.

[mody]

HAL, NAL sign tech transfer pact for Tejas engine day door production
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 94231.html
22 April 2024

With the signing of the technology transfer for Bismaleimide (BMI) Engine Bay Door (EBD), HAL can directly produce these high-temperature resistant composite parts for the series production of LCA Mk1A aircraft meeting the initial requirement of IAF squadrons, a joint statement said.

What was being used for the Tejas MK1 production? Is this a new development of a new composite Engine Bay Door developed specifically for the Mk1A?

[JTull]

NAL was building it. Now HAL will build it.