Understanding the US - Again

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saip
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by saip »

This million includes half a million who have DIED. In other words these guys were sleeping at the wheel. I am sure they have department of births and deaths somewhere and they could have easily coordinated the removal of the names. So, what is the big deal?
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Jay »

exas announces 6,500+ illegal aliens caught registering to vote and nearly 2,000 caught voting
Out of 18 million registered voters, 1,930 non citizens have a voter history. This is is approximately 0.0107% 18,000,000 where a "potential" vote was cast. Dollar to donuts I bet these are green card holders who A) either thought they can vote or B) who became citizens but their record at TX SoS did not get updated.

I do not know where the case here is for widespread voting fraud by illegals in US.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

Jay wrote: 27 Aug 2024 10:26
Mort Walker wrote: 26 Aug 2024 23:49 Ironically Republican states make voting registration easier because they’re tied to positive residency & citizenship requirements.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... oting.html

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/natio ... 2e02d9b05a

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/epdf/10. ... .2022.0041
My son received his driver’s license after the 2020 election and in 2022 received his voter ID card. I have first hand knowledge & the links are nonsensical media publications.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

saip wrote: 27 Aug 2024 22:58 This million includes half a million who have DIED. In other words these guys were sleeping at the wheel. I am sure they have department of births and deaths somewhere and they could have easily coordinated the removal of the names. So, what is the big deal?
Because political parties cheat by using dead people on rolls to stuff ballot boxes.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 28 Aug 2024 01:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

Jay wrote: 27 Aug 2024 23:49
exas announces 6,500+ illegal aliens caught registering to vote and nearly 2,000 caught voting
Out of 18 million registered voters, 1,930 non citizens have a voter history. This is is approximately 0.0107% 18,000,000 where a "potential" vote was cast. Dollar to donuts I bet these are green card holders who A) either thought they can vote or B) who became citizens but their record at TX SoS did not get updated.

I do not know where the case here is for widespread voting fraud by illegals in US.
Roughly 2,000 got caught, but more likely a higher number who didn’t.


It can make a difference in local races for state & county governments.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by saip »

This 2000 is statewide number, not in one constituency. So the effect would be practically zero unless the local elections were decided by SINGLE digit difference which is very very rare.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^Again, they only know those who got caught or tried registering. Actual numbers may be larger. The real issue is that residency & photo ID should be positively established. As it is India where over 910 million have positive photo voter ID.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by sanman »

New US Nuclear Strategy Plans for 3-vs-1 Nuclear Conflict

(US vs Russia+China+NKorea)

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by KL Dubey »

Jay wrote: 27 Aug 2024 23:49 I do not know where the case here is for widespread voting fraud by illegals in US.
There isn't any case.

For decades, white politicians (republicans and erstwhile "southern democrats") have practiced terrifying levels of voter suppression of what is called in India as "weaker sections of society" (in the US context, groups like blacks, latinos, women, first nations, low-income people, etc).

The 2020 election was a "wave election" to an extent, with a lot of these suppressed folks being empowered to vote by mail-in...anger against the Trump sarkar and its performance compounded Bhaidanwa's victory. These same voter suppression artists are now wailing when they are on the business end of the stick.

There are always a small number of fake (or ineligible/invalid) votes, but they have nearly zero impact in presidential elections. The crazy claims from the Trump campaign on "massive voter fraud" have no merit and were dismissed promptly. The small numbers of actual fake votes that are dug up with great difficulty in some states are being used by some to claim much higher magnitudes of "fraud".

Ironically, the main "voter fraud" case that is still standing is that of Trump's attempt to get the state of GA to manufacture 12,000 votes in his favor. Similar irony is found by taking a deeper look at these Trump-origin "voter fraud" claims. It reveals a much darker picture in which these false "complainants/victims" actually turn out to be the election-rigging villains through history and enjoying the fruits thereof.

This article gives a good summary history of these hypocrites all the way down to the 2020s: https://nlihc.org/resource/history-voter-suppression

Whichever way one tries to cut it, this voter suppression agenda comes down mainly to racism: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... -tied-race

These are not just random media articles, these are well-researched summaries from organizations that are actually taking legal action.

I see these voter suppression tactics (including trying to advance "massive voter fraud" claims) as being among the last gasps of "white male dominance" in a country which is seeing massive demographic shifts + influx of undocumented aliens to do the dirty work that nobody else wants to do.

A few Indian-origin posters here seem to have thrown in their lot with this crowd. I have to say it's amusing to watch some of these riled-up folks who seemingly abandon whatever intelligence/"vivek" they got from their motherland.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

saip wrote: 27 Aug 2024 22:58 This million includes half a million who have DIED. In other words these guys were sleeping at the wheel. I am sure they have department of births and deaths somewhere and they could have easily coordinated the removal of the names. So, what is the big deal?
I wonder how many "dead" people are voting in deep blue CA! There is big talk that they want to turn TX blue as well.

That is the big deal.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

KL Dubey wrote: 28 Aug 2024 03:28 The 2020 election was a "wave election" to an extent, with a lot of these suppressed folks being empowered to vote by mail-in...anger against the Trump sarkar and its performance compounded Bhaidanwa's victory. These same voter suppression artists are now wailing when they are on the business end of the stick.
I cannot read it any other way but "US elections are compromised - both parties do it".
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by bala »

All the blue states like Kalifornia and New Rubbish York are blatantly rigged states. There are a fair number opposing the dems within the state, but they are completely drowned. State officials, media ruckus are so biased that even a hint of impropriety is brushed away. Just look at their marquee cities, filled with homeless filth, driven out large businesses from main streets, rubbish everywhere, city and state highways hardly resurfaced & filled with pot holes, rip of state tax rates, soaring housing tax rates, god-awful gasoline prices, 100+ % inflation of many common goods including food, grocery, restaurants are rip-off charging 100-200+% more for same item pre-covid. Don't know where these democrat controlled state will end up, probably a filthy cesspool of massive immigrants clogging the system. Nothing works in these states properly.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by sanman »

KL Dubey wrote: 28 Aug 2024 03:28 A few Indian-origin posters here seem to have thrown in their lot with this crowd. I have to say it's amusing to watch some of these riled-up folks who seemingly abandon whatever intelligence/"vivek" they got from their motherland.
I only cheer for Indian cricket team rather than some American cricket team. I feel that Trump is better for India, and also better for America too.
Are these "suppressed" voters your Bhim Sena?

The policies of these "suppressed" voters don't seem to be very bright. I guess their brain cells continue to be suppressed in spite of the emancipation of their voting. By voting for welfare statism, they'll just destroy American prosperity.

Obama represents these "suppressed" voters and their welfare state preference.
So the alliance between Obama Democrats and the National Security State is a marriage of the Welfare State & Deep State.
Both have decided to loyally embrace each other, in a death pact - because these 2 parasitical forces can only bleed America dry.
Neither of these is capable of earning their keep, and can only suck the life blood out of the country.

And then where will they be, after a once prosperous United States of America is turned into Sub-Saharan Africa?

De-Dollarization worldwide is being driven by the bloodsucking tendencies of these 2 irresponsible glandular partners.
Biden's govt is spending a trillion dollars a month, and the rest of the world's dollar-holders don't want to be stuck paying that bill.
Last edited by sanman on 28 Aug 2024 07:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Cybaru »

Mort Walker wrote: 28 Aug 2024 01:16
My son received his driver’s license after the 2020 election and in 2022 received his voter ID card. I have first hand knowledge & the links are nonsensical media publications.
That's really interesting.

Can you share more context?
State
Visa Status
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^Red state. Son born in the US. Driver’s license tied to voter registration, but strict on giving driver’s licenses. Get license & automatic voter registration. Even goras have complained because they don’t have passport & must get birth certificate from the state they were born in just to get driver’s license. Then they need utility bill or letter from school, college or employer with verification of residency.

Son is RFK supporter & now disappointed he’s with Trump. All I’ve told him is read about proposed unrealized capital gains tax and compare it to what Thomas Jefferson said about the dangers of Americans becoming like property-less European serfs.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

It’s laughable to say 2020 was a wave election. The US was & is divided. In 2020, 5 counties in 4 states would have flipped the results with around 40,000 votes. Had the Hunter Biden laptop story not been suppressed may have made the difference. It will be a close election this time around too where it can go either way.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Mort Walker wrote: 28 Aug 2024 09:27 ^^^Red state. Son born in the US. Driver’s license tied to voter registration, but strict on giving driver’s licenses. Get license & automatic voter registration. Even goras have complained because they don’t have passport & must get birth certificate from the state they were born in just to get driver’s license. Then they need utility bill or letter from school, college or employer with verification of residency.

Son is RFK supporter & now disappointed he’s with Trump. All I’ve told him is read about proposed unrealized capital gains tax and compare it to what Thomas Jefferson said about the dangers of Americans becoming like property-less European serfs.

Is there such a thing as voter ID card in America?

Your son's experience sounds about right.

New rules around driver's license - you have to show citizenship or visa or asylum papers to get driver's license.

If you visa is valid for 1 year, your driver's license is valid for 1 year. It varies by state and I have lived in a few red states myself.

I have gone through this hassle. You do not automatically right to vote or are registered if you get a driver's license. When you apply. even with green card, you go through SAVE. They verify you are eligible and I think all states have to follow it. Here is more info. https://www.uscis.gov/save
You have to provide adequate documentation like birth certificate or Naturalization documents even when you are renewing driver's license. I first ran into this in 2011.

You also have to submit SSN card. Your SSN card is tagged with status. Once you become a citizen, you have to go to SSN office and file for removal of H1B or Legal alien status from the card and ask to issue a new card. if you are illegal and work rights, you get ITIN number from IRS. They collect their piece of pie no matter your status ;).

Even with Naturalization, your wait times in liberal green states to get a license id is 3 weeks after your picture is taken. There is a tick mark at the bottom of the application to register to vote IF YOU QUALIFY. You are not automatically signed up, unless there is a rule in that state that does automatic registration for Citizens. These guys make it very hard to vote!

Some states require a separate registration process for voting. They also send out post cards periodically to see if you still are at that address. If the post card does not get delivered, then you are removed from the rolls and have to provide Domicile and documents again to the voting agency to be re-registered.

Are you extrapolating that everyone who gets a driver's license is registered to vote? I may have missed piece of conversation.

Also there is no voter ID that I know off. It is not like India, where you get a voter id card.

Most states are doing REAL ID - burden of proof is much higher to get REAL ID. Please see REAL ID requirements.

Unrealized gains? That is for people with 100 million or more in income for that year. It is a proposal and only kicks in once you cross that threshold. There are 9300 people in USA that this effects. If you are one of them, I am happy for you. If you want to bat for them to keep their earnings and contribute less to schools, public infrastructure etc, I presume that is your son's right, but it may not be in his interest.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by saip »

"Unrealized gains? That is for people with 100 million...."
May be some of the people here have that kind of income and so they are worried. Closer to home I got hit when they got rid of SALT. At the same time lot of concessions were given to real estate investors (like you know who). My brother - in - law and my nephew who are in that business loved it. You can not satisfy everyone.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

Cybaru-ji,

Those who have a US passport or birth certificate are automatically tagged for voter registration ID card (card doesn’t have picture) but is required that info on card matches the roll at the polling station. Again not all states, some states have made most of the REAL ID documentation requirements for all types of driver’s licenses. It is not an unreasonable requirement, especially if it makes getting voter registration easier & puts the issue illegal voting in that state to rest. Aside from the EVM hacking allegations made by the opposition in India, there is no one talking about getting a voter ID card being difficult. So similarly, there should not be a documentation requirement being unreasonable in the US.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Mort Walker wrote: 28 Aug 2024 23:42 Cybaru-ji,

Those who have a US passport or birth certificate are automatically tagged for voter registration ID card (card doesn’t have picture) but is required that info on card matches the roll at the polling station. Again not all states, some states have made most of the REAL ID documentation requirements for all types of driver’s licenses. It is not an unreasonable requirement, especially if it makes getting voter registration easier & puts the issue illegal voting in that state to rest. Aside from the EVM hacking allegations made by the opposition in India, there is no one talking about getting a voter ID card being difficult. So similarly, there should not be a documentation requirement being unreasonable in the US.
Mort-JI

Fully agree about requiring documentation.

I don't think it's a card. You get mail with your registration in mail, like a letter with your polling both and all.

The blue state I am in, requires new ID to be REAL ID. The issue is cost I think. The John Lewis Voting right act would have taken care of that, but it was not renewed by the last senate on partisan lines. That would have required photo ID for all election ( Dems agreed to add that to the bill ). Lost opportunity I think. It also allowed the republican side to raise ruckus of voter fraud if they didnt pass the bill, pretty much like how they killed the border bill which would have improved status quo from where things are today to a whole new level of protection.

I have zero idea about India at the moment, not having voted there for ever and no longer can.

In the US, the problem is systemic removal of people from voting rolls right before election. Georgia dropped 1,50,000. Texas removed 10,00,000 people over 3 years. If you don’t recognize that you are no longer registered to vote and if you realize this after the last day to "register to vote" is gone, then you cannot cast your ballot, that is real election interference. That’s what red states do in the name of illegal voters, they say they are "cleaning records", and they clean you out of the system, even though you are a citizen. They raise ruckus around Illegal voters, remove good standing people from the rolls who might vote against them and give their side an UNFAIR leg up. They create this hooohaaaaw around illegal voters to provide cover for such activities. Naive get sucked up into this narrative.

Heritage foundation the republican folks that wrote the Trump transition plan track every election has this https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/sea ... type=24491#

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/wide ... -evidence/
So, where’s the fraud?
The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, has been monitoring election fraud cases state by state. Election fraud covers a range of activities — such as registering someone to vote and forging their signature, filling out an absentee ballot for someone who has died or moved away, voting while ineligible, or pretending to be someone else at the polling place and voting. They find that there have been 1,465 proven cases of election fraud — 1,264 of these resulted in criminal prosecutions and the remainder resulted in civil prosecutions, diversion programs, judicial findings, or official findings.
These may sound like big numbers, however, they must be examined in context. The findings encompass more than a decade of data during which, nationally, hundreds of millions of votes have been cast. For instance, in Texas, Heritage found 103 cases of confirmed election fraud. However, those 103 ranged from 2005 to 2022 during which time over 107 million ballots were cast. There were 11 million ballots cast in the 2020 presidential election alone. The fraud in Texas amounted to 0.000096% of all ballots cast — hardly evidence of a fundamentally corrupt system.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

As far as unrealized capital gains. How does the IRS determine the value of your assets beyond $100M? It is a slippery slope to rob the upper middle class who’ve invested and have a nice sum in 401Ks & IRAs. This will impact the Indian-American community the most.

If the federal & state governments seized 100% of the assets of the top 1% wealthiest in the US, it would provide around $8T USD. However, the Harris-Biden regime has been running a debt of $1.75T USD in the last year. If a Harris-Walz admin comes in, they’ll add another $8T USD by 2029. Then seizing the assets of the top 10% wealthiest in the US will come next.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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saip wrote: 28 Aug 2024 23:13 "Unrealized gains? That is for people with 100 million...."
May be some of the people here have that kind of income and so they are worried. Closer to home I got hit when they got rid of SALT. At the same time lot of concessions were given to real estate investors (like you know who). My brother - in - law and my nephew who are in that business loved it. You can not satisfy everyone.

I knoooow :)

I don't worry about batting for Oligarchs. They will do fine even with the proposed tax! :D

I hear a lot about SALT. I think if dems get the house, SALT is back. Yeah, can't satisfy everyone and the folks that for the life of me become one issue voters for billionaires is funny!
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Mort Walker wrote: 29 Aug 2024 01:12 As far as unrealized capital gains. How does the IRS determine the value of your assets beyond $100M? It is a slippery slope to rob the upper middle class who’ve invested and have a nice sum in 401Ks & IRAs. This will impact the Indian-American community the most.

If the federal & state governments seized 100% of the assets of the top 1% wealthiest in the US, it would provide around $8T USD. However, the Harris-Biden regime has been running a debt of $1.75T USD in the last year. If a Harris-Walz admin comes in, they’ll add another $8T USD by 2029. Then seizing the assets of the top 10% wealthiest in the US will come next.
401K and IRAs are not taxed.
Second Vinod Khosla is okay with the tax.
This is a fear mongering and hypothetical straw man argument about seizing assets.
The policy has not been fully disclosed. I would wait to see the policy in full and see how it affects the 99.99% of people.
That is what gets my vote. I am in that bunch. The Oligarchs will buy/lobby their way to safeguard their assets. Let them worry about that. I am too poor to focus on them. Most common folks should focus on Climate change/lower taxes for us/better healthcare/more earned retirement benefits/ better banking and fiduciary protection etc. This is what matters to everyday folks.
Last edited by Cybaru on 29 Aug 2024 01:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Cybaru-ji,

In my red state you get a voter ID card with your name & polling station listed on it. If you don’t have it at time of voting, you can use your driver’s license. In both cases, your name must be checked off on the roll, if your name is not there because you haven’t voted in the last 10 years, then you can’t vote. If you vote often, your name goes into a list that you’re available for jury selection too.

I’ve served on a jury once, but called two times. Wife has been called two times, but never made it to a jury.

Also 401K is taxed at time of withdrawal. Default by brokerage firms by law is 20% federal tax with held. IRAs are taxed if your income exceeds a certain amount. Once these laws are enacted, the IRS only needs to do rule changes to adjust taxation values.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 29 Aug 2024 01:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Mort Walker wrote: 29 Aug 2024 01:21 Cybaru-ji,

In my red state you get a voter ID card with your name & polling station listed on it. If you don’t have it at time of voting, you can use your driver’s license. In both cases, your name must be checked off on the roll, if your name is not there because you haven’t voted in the last 10 years, then you can’t vote. If you vote often, your name goes into a list that you’re available for jury selection too.

I’ve served on a jury once, but called two times. Wife has been called two times, but never made it to a jury.

Also 401K is taxed at time of withdrawal. Default by brokerage firms by law is 20% federal tax with held.
Excellent sir - Thanks for showing up for Jury duty! Also the system you are talking of, seems secure to me.

Your Required minimum distribution is taxed not your 401k. If you have 50 million in 401K and you withdraw 1 million (RMD) this year, your tax is on that amount. Is that not right?
Last edited by Cybaru on 29 Aug 2024 05:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

Cybaru wrote: 28 Aug 2024 22:12 You also have to submit SSN card. Your SSN card is tagged with status. Once you become a citizen, you have to go to SSN office and file for removal of H1B or Legal alien status from the card and ask to issue a new card.
This must be new. It was not there back in 1985 when I came here nor when my mom became a PR and later naturalized. This was back in 2000.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Cybaru wrote: 28 Aug 2024 22:12 Unrealized gains? That is for people with 100 million or more in income for that year.
It is a slippery slope. They can progressively lower that threshold to fund their big government in Duplicity. And employ 88000 IRS agents to go after taxes on tips. :rotfl:
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

saip wrote: 28 Aug 2024 23:13 "Unrealized gains? That is for people with 100 million...."
May be some of the people here have that kind of income and so they are worried.
See above. They can keep on lowering the threshold once it passes. Who is going to put a stop to it and when?
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Cybaru wrote: 29 Aug 2024 01:20 Most common folks should focus on Climate change/lower taxes for us/better healthcare/more earned retirement benefits/better banking and fiduciary protection etc. This is what matters to everyday folks.
FTFY.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Mort Walker wrote: 29 Aug 2024 01:21 I’ve served on a jury once, but called two times. Wife has been called two times, but never made it to a jury.
I was called once and my wife twice. Neither of us made it to the jury. I was looking forward to serving though. My daughter got called but did not make it to the jury.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Mort Walker wrote: 29 Aug 2024 01:21 Also 401K is taxed at time of withdrawal. Default by brokerage firms by law is 20% federal tax with held. IRAs are taxed if your income exceeds a certain amount. Once these laws are enacted, the IRS only needs to do rule changes to adjust taxation values.
One has to withdraw once one is 72 years of age. That is what I heard. That is why you see old people driving really fancy sports cars and high end EVs with all options.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^RMD is age 75, but you can withdraw at 59.5.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

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Mort Walker wrote: 29 Aug 2024 02:34 ^^^RMD is age 75, but you can withdraw at 59.5.
You have to pay income tax at the your tax bracket rate, right?
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^Yes
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by saip »

It is 73 now but will be 75 in 2033. You can start a 'charitable trust' and direct the RMD to it and you can be its trustee along with your spouse and pretend to do charitable work until the IRS catches you. That is how HNI guys legally avoid taxes.
I was on Grand Jury for a month once. Two cases, both murders. You only hear one side (the prosecutor's) and his witnesses. Not much to do except to raise your hand at the end & call it 'true bill'.
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Vayutuvan »

saip wrote: 29 Aug 2024 05:36 It is 73 now but will be 75 in 2033. You can start a 'charitable trust' and direct the RMD to it...
I would rather do a honest good charitable trust with part of the money and the rest to buy sports cars and such.
Rakesh
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Rakesh »

https://x.com/sreemoytalukdar/status/18 ... 5383117025 ---> Washington has been hard at work for a G2 'lite'. Advantage China, because Beijing understands that the urgency for a 'compact' lies more on the other side. This reinforces the fundamental unrealiability of the U.S. as a strategic partner.

The inside story of the secret backchannel between the US and China
https://www.ft.com/content/c62ca855-c70 ... d2a0020c16
25 August 2024
bala
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by bala »

Tulsi Gabbard at the Wisconsin Town Hall has a Full interview with Donald Trump. This is a more free-wheeling discussion, without the plastic smiles and scouling of ABC/NBC/CBS type moderators with their biased gotcha questions.

Topics: IVF, United Nations, Climate change (refers to long-term shifts in temperatures and weather patterns). Human activities have been the main driver of climate change, primarily due to the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, Illegal Immigration & The Border Crisis, threat of Terrorists Coming Through The Border, the Threat of Nuclear War, Inflation, Kamala Harris' Price Control Plan, Kamala Harris and her Marxist background due to her father.

It is Good to know what the other side considers is important and useful to discuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0Kujm-0Do4
Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Post by Mort Walker »

Rakesh wrote: 30 Aug 2024 00:06 https://x.com/sreemoytalukdar/status/18 ... 5383117025 ---> Washington has been hard at work for a G2 'lite'. Advantage China, because Beijing understands that the urgency for a 'compact' lies more on the other side. This reinforces the fundamental unrealiability of the U.S. as a strategic partner.

The inside story of the secret backchannel between the US and China
https://www.ft.com/content/c62ca855-c70 ... d2a0020c16
25 August 2024
Both parties know that inflation can only be controlled by Chinese slave labor because the US doesn’t want an economy that is building consumer goods. High end integrated circuits/SOCs/embedded sw+fw, bespoke pharma products, aerospace & defense is where share holders profits are. The rest of the world becomes a slave to the Chinese & US.

This is why the establishment is so against Trump when he threatens tariffs.
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