India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[sanman]

Sanman Saar,
I suggest you take a break from your media activities if you are frustrated. This is not the language you use for an elected PM no matter your thoughts or feelings on any matter. If you can't edit your post mods will do it for you.

you are out of line and out of order for using these phrases and completely devoid of thought when it comes to deals. Your entire thought is based on thought of trump winning White house and all the problems facing India will magically disappear?

what will you do if trump loses the election, then will you say that India needs to wait 4 years for a republican to come in White house? Indian deals with pentagon are on going irrespective of Trump or Biden. Now whether that has the desired yields that India is looking for is another matter entirely.

Even if i take your plausible scenario of a Trump White House, When do you think we will a deal signed? The administration will not take office till Jan.
And then it would take 4-6 months as defense secretarys and various portfolios are assigned and confirmed by Congress. Is signing deals with India the first priority for trump administration? if that is the case you are looking for next August- Oct time frame else even later. Should the Tejas keep facing engine issues till then?

If a deal gets signed the incoming administration can probably check for language and go ahead with the deal rather than starting negotiations again. it would have been better if we had funded our own power plant in Kaveri but that is a discussion best explained by Maitya ji and Rakesh Saar in military forum.

Sir, I am in no way banking on Trump winning - as you say, he could very well lose.

But I'm saying that has yet to be determined before November 8, and therefore Indian PM should wait until after that date to go visit Washington.

What is the benefit in going now, ahead of that date?
Again, it all looks very unseemly and unbefitting of India's PM to do this. It looks like an act of fearful kowtowing.

In a democracy, we should be able to criticize the leadership for making obvious mistakes.
It's too bad some don't respect the culture of democracy, so that we have to quietly swallow obvious mistakes while applauding on command.
That's something for Pakistanis and Chinese to do. not us.

[chetak]

this swine shih is the washington post India bureau chief and is out narrative building while using fiction from woke fakes to justify his claims


has this clown heard what people all over the world have to say about the amrekis


Gerry Shih@gerryshih

We've reached the point where exasperated public figures from smaller South Asian countries are signing an open letter begging Indian politicians and intelligence officials to stop covertly meddling and empowering autocrats

https://telegraphindia.com/india/expert ... id/2040145

[Lisa]

https://x.com/Iyervval/status/1828808126092410983

".......the letter are Firdous Azim, English professor and member of Naripokkho (a feminist organisation), and Manzoor Hasan of the Centre for Peace and Justice at BRAC University in Bangladesh; Kanak Mani Dixit, founding editor of Himal Southasian, and Sushil Pyakurel, former commissioner of the National Human Rights Commission of Nepal; and Sri Lankan journalist Lakshman Gunasekara."

[KL Dubey]

Your entire thought is based on thought of trump winning White house and all the problems facing India will magically disappear?

what will you do if trump loses the election, then will you say that India needs to wait 4 years for a republican to come in White house? Indian deals with pentagon are on going irrespective of Trump or Biden. Now whether that has the desired yields that India is looking for is another matter entirely.

Some of the posters are very partisan, they desperately want to Trump to win.

Nothing wrong with that per se, but when it completely clouds the thinking on India-US relations ("Trump will be good for India and all the US interference is mainly because the Democrats are allowing the deep state to run amok") then it becomes a problem. No US administration has abandoned the "weakening India" project. The evangelicals set up firm roots in India during the Bush years with collusion from Antonia et al. Other BIFs (Soros ecosystem) established firm roots in India during the Trump administration and started "showing their mettle" from 2020 onwards.

[bala]

Slightly tangential topic of who will become El Presidente of US.

Jake Sullivan dude is in China talking to the Chinese, this is a U-Turn considering the Taiwan shenanigans. Apparently the Deep State is now completely in charge while Mami is missing in action due to elections and bidenwa is still trying to remember his name (I think he went senile after the incessant cackling of mami in close qtrs).

Sumeet Jain lives in China with a china wife and he says that banks are not allowing any transfer of money even bank-to-bank. In recent months, an alarming trend has emerged across China. Numerous bank customers have found themselves unable to access their own money, with banks imposing strict limits on withdrawals and transfers. Nearly 1,500 bank branches have shut down in recent months. Comprehensive salary cuts, with some banks reducing pay by 10% or more. Overall economic growth has slowed significantly, with some quarters seeing the lowest growth rates in decades. From withdrawal restrictions to bank closures and layoffs, the signs of stress in the financial system are clear.

China is waiting for election results and if Trump is back then they are prepared to completely withdraw their stash in US Treasury. Outcome of US elections has a direct bearing for the cheens.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EAJnRGja-4

[KLNMurthy]

…

Sir, I am in no way banking on Trump winning - as you say, he could very well lose.

But I'm saying that has yet to be determined before November 8, and therefore Indian PM should wait until after that date to go visit Washington.

What is the benefit in going now, ahead of that date?
Again, it all looks very unseemly and unbefitting of India's PM to do this. It looks like an act of fearful kowtowing.

In a democracy, we should be able to criticize the leadership for making obvious mistakes.
It's too bad some don't respect the culture of democracy, so that we have to quietly swallow obvious mistakes while applauding on command.
That's something for Pakistanis and Chinese to do. not us.

Whether anyone likes it or not, India’s consistent policy has been to not get involved with other countries’ internal matters, and to deal with whatever government may be there, keeping India’s best interests in mind.

The deals that raksha mantri signed would have been negotiated at lower levels long before the signing. If the deals were unfavorable to India, presumably that would have been dealt with at an earlier stage.

This indifference to the particular party in power is not just an idealistic model, it’s very practical and gets us long-term stability and predictability in the relationship. It has succeeded in establishing an immutable nonpartisan baseline level of cooperation between India and the US.

Making Indo-US deals subject to the ruling party in the US has the exact opposite connotation of independence: it means India is so dependent on US, and so fearful of US ability to harm India that India has to wait in trembling anticipation for the arrival of a US massa that will be more merciful.

Your posts—both content and tone—reflect a presumption that India is a lowly vassal banana republic with a foreign policy run by naïve and emotional officials who have to engage in silly teenager-like posturing (Venezuela-style) or desperate defeated-old-man type hope for a kinder US emperor.

Reality is that the template India has for desl-making with the US is exactly what an independent, sophisticated foreign policy run by very high-functioning minds, looks like.

These things should all be obvious to rakshaks, but I am spelling them out in case you are not the only one who, beneath the patriotic bluster, underestimates India and thinks of Bharat in similar disrespectful terms.

[sanman]

Whether anyone likes it or not, India’s consistent policy has been to not get involved with other countries’ internal matters, and to deal with whatever government may be there, keeping India’s best interests in mind.

The deals that raksha mantri signed would have been negotiated at lower levels long before the signing. If the deals were unfavorable to India, presumably that would have been dealt with at an earlier stage.

This visit is not about arms deals. This visit is about Modi fearfully running to Washington in a state of "shock & awe".
The sudden urgency of this visit clearly conveys a sense of worry and fear from Modi's side. He should know better.

This indifference to the particular party in power is not just an idealistic model, it’s very practical and gets us long-term stability and predictability in the relationship. It has succeeded in establishing an immutable nonpartisan baseline level of cooperation between India and the US.

Making Indo-US deals subject to the ruling party in the US has the exact opposite connotation of independence: it means India is so dependent on US, and so fearful of US ability to harm India that India has to wait in trembling anticipation for the arrival of a US massa that will be more merciful.

It's about getting the best possible deal for the country. We should want to negotiate with those who are less hostile, and those who have a fresh mandate of power, and not with those who may potentially be on their way out, and whose word may thus not carry the day.

Your posts—both content and tone—reflect a presumption that India is a lowly vassal banana republic with a foreign policy run by naïve and emotional officials who have to engage in silly teenager-like posturing (Venezuela-style) or desperate defeated-old-man type hope for a kinder US emperor.

I disagree - I feel that the PM's conduct makes us look this way, and that we must avoid trying to look this way by playing the situation to our advantage. We've already gone through our elections, while current US rulers have not.

Reality is that the template India has for desl-making with the US is exactly what an independent, sophisticated foreign policy run by very high-functioning minds, looks like.

These things should all be obvious to rakshaks, but I am spelling them out in case you are not the only one who, beneath the patriotic bluster, underestimates India and thinks of Bharat in similar disrespectful terms.

My bluster aside, we can see that Washington's move in Dhaka caught Modi govt with its pants down, and that this was not a positive development for us.
The fact that Modi is now suddenly rushing to Washington in the sake of this debacle, tells me that America's blow has struck true.
Are you going to seriously tell me that this September visit was planned well in advance? Because it was not.

[KLNMurthy]

...

This visit is not about arms deals. This visit is about Modi fearfully running to Washington in a state of "shock & awe".
The sudden urgency of this visit clearly conveys a sense of worry and fear from Modi's side. He should know better.

...

"Modi suddenly rushing", "fearful" and worse language is all your commentary. They are not facts.

And yes, I am fairly certain that Modi knows better. Than you.

[sanman]

"Modi suddenly rushing", "fearful" and worse language is all your commentary. They are not facts.

And yes, I am fairly certain that Modi knows better. Than you.

I worry that by kowtowing to these hyper-aggressive NeoCons currently controlling Washington, that the wrong signal is being sent to them, which will only embolden them in trying more such stunts like Bangla in the future. Modi's response conveys a reaction of "shock and awe"

We need to instead show them that there will be a negative cost to such stunts from them, which will make those stunts unprofitable for them.

These Washington NeoCons are Atlanticists, and that's why they don't give enough of a damn about stopping China. Left to their own devices, they'd much prefer to start wars with Russia, which has no inherent conflict with them, while they totally turn a blind eye to the Chinese threat as much as possible.

I think we need to keep the national interest uppermost in our minds.
There are multiple examples of Modi having lost his nerve at crucial moments. Farm Reform Law was one of them. This running to Washington is another.

If our response were up to me, I would be taking a different approach: I would be talking to Iran, and helping them to transplant Hamas into Afghanistan, like BinLaden once did - specifically the Khorasan province of Afghanistan which is right on the border with Iran.
This would cause serious problems for the Washington NeoCons, and teach them a very painful lesson.
Because Washington's ruling NeoCons mainly care about Israel, and not so much about the United States itself.

[sanman]

Good plain-spoken words from Arnab on US Deep State VS India

have a listen:

[sanman]

Aadi Achint says Modi is giving firm pushback against Washington -- I hope that's true




But I have to add something here:
While Americans respect resolve, the NeoCons are a breed apart, and when faced with resistance they will just double down on their machiavellianism. But while pulling stunts and fomenting conflict are their strong suit, being able to fight and win conflicts is their weakness.

We're having to now do all this heavy lifting on tamping down these big wars.
We could have saved ourselves a lot of trouble by acting ahead of time to keep relations between Washington and Moscow on an even keel.
But because we're too insular and too lethargic, we didn't care to see the need for anything, let alone actually do something.
It's only now, after things have hit the fan, that we're getting our butts moving.
Had we acted in advance, we could have prevented all this trouble for ourselves and others.
Because we were lazy and insular, we allowed the crooked NeoCon warmongers like Nuland & Co to fill that space and use it to make their new Cold War.

The NeoCon warmongers were the early birds who caught the worm. While we 3rd-rate 3rd-worlders were slow and lazy, and missed the boat.
That's why we're now having to slough through his hard path now.

These Washington elites are now frequently complaining about China's "overcapacity" -- but they don't acknowledge America's own "overcapacity" problem -- its overcapacity to make war and kill people.
The NeoCons have simply availed themselves of that overcapacity and used it for their own ends -- ends which have nothing to do with America's own national interests.

[bala]

This overcapacity was done deliberately. China had huge rural population that required transition to industrial output. The companies in the West dismantled their existing factories and relocated them in China. China provided all the land, water, electricity and some subsidy for shipping the factory into China. This was possible because China was allowed to print money based on the value of shipped goods. The Chinese actual value add was the labor component for which labor costs are a miniscule amount of the product overall cost. Printing money based on product value increased the value of China manifold times. The Chinese smartly used the over printing of money to upgrade their own infrastructure and keep people occupied. The Chinese absorbed their own inflation because people saw improvements of the nation. The cost of land, water, electricity, shipping etc were quickly recovered by China.

Over time, China moved to produce the various components and raw materials for the product. You can deduce that the costs for setup of huge factories is not a small amount. Now, when the deep state removed their marbles from China, they have to eat the new cost of setup of factories elsewhere in the world. This is passed on to the end consumer in terms of inflation of costs across the board. They (Deep State) are also facing a supply shortage because they cannot match the Chinese factory output. China is now faced with overbuilt factories which cannot employ people since there is no demand for their products worldwide. It is firesale of existing output. Critical equipment needed for manufacture is either under disrepair (no one knows how to fix them) or removed. China is reduced to supplying its components and raw material to the rest of the world's manufacturing sites, e.g. Mexico, Vietnam, etc. When other nations quickly ramp up, then China will face sudden deflation of their economy. The Deep State is still stuck with some investments in China which they need to remove and hence Jake Sullivan's visit to China. Don't know what the outcomes are in such meetings.

America's overcapacity in weapons production will continue due to NATO, war elsewhere. The Deep State initially wanted India to produce such things but they seem to have backed off recently. Just a note, the current Ukraine war has revealed shortage of ammunition supply by the US to Ukraine, in fact the US Army faces shortage. Many analyst around the world are saying that the US Army is the weakest and the US Navy is the strongest with US airforce in between.

[sanman]

China can find other ways to use its overcapacity. Their shipbuilding industry is said to be >200X America's.

They can simply redirect themselves towards a war economy, like the Japanese did leading up to WW2.
That even seems to be Xi Jinping's inclination, especially in the face of USA's economic decoupling.

But it seems to me that the most glaring Achilles' Heel for US is its financial overextension.
US is the world's largest debtor state, and its debt-servicing costs are due to rise dramatically, due to growing De-Dollarization.

I see US experts referring to their increasingly shaky fiscal policies as making them the "least dirty shirt"
(ie. howsoever badly managed US fiscal policy is, that's okay as long as everybody else in the world is worse)

US counts on its bonds being the "least unattractive" compared to everyone else's.
I suspect that gap will narrow in the years ahead, forcing US bond yields to rise, and bringing debt-servicing problems to the fore.

[Vayutuvan]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/20/politics ... index.html

Trump says he wants foreign nationals who graduate from US colleges to ‘automatically’ receive green cards
Kate Sullivan
By Kate Sullivan, CNN
4 minute read
Updated 9:39 AM EDT, Fri June 21, 2024
...

CNN
—
Former President Donald Trump proposed “automatically” giving green cards to foreign nationals who graduate from a US college – comments that break from his efforts to curb both legal and illegal immigration while in office and stand in stark contrast to his inflammatory anti-immigrant rhetoric on the campaign trail.

“What I want to do, and what I will do, is you graduate from a college, I think you should get automatically, as part of your diploma, a green card to be able to stay in this country,” the presumptive GOP nominee said on “The All-In Podcast,” which aired Thursday.

He continued, “And that includes junior colleges too. Anybody graduates from a college — you go in there for two years or four years. If you graduate, or you get a doctorate degree from a college, you should be able to stay in this country.”

Trump made the comments on a podcast whose hosts included prominent tech venture capitalists David Sacks and Chamath Palihapitiya, who recently hosted a fundraiser for Trump in San Francisco. Trump was responding to another one of the podcast hosts, investor Jason Calacanis, who asked the former president, “Can you please promise us you will give us more ability to import the best and brightest from around the world to America?”

Trump campaign spokeswoman Karoline Leavitt said that graduates would be screened “to exclude all communists, radical Islamists, Hamas supporters, America haters and public charges.”

“He believes, only after such vetting has taken place, we ought to keep the most skilled graduates who can make significant contributions to America. This would only apply to the most thoroughly vetted college graduates who would never undercut American wages or workers,” Leavitt said in a statement to CNN.
...

I put it to the readers of this forum that this is good thing for India-US relations and beneficial to hardworking Indian students who came here to study instead of engaging in politics and protest on college campuses. Those who did can go back and pound sand.

[pravula]

Given the number of diiploma mills, this is not going to help if there are still country limits.

[Vayutuvan]

Given the number of diiploma mills, this is not going to help if there are still country limits.

My reading is that there are not going to be any country limits. Even if there are, Indian-Americans can lobby to increase the limits for India. I am sure American universities would support increasing the limits for India as they can get a large number of paying Masters students from India or heck even UG students from India. It is a loss for India in the long term but in the short term, the loans these kids took to find their US education will be paid back with interest (in USD). Germany offers PRs immediately to Indian high tech workers, the only requirement being that they get two lowest German language certifications or something like that. Their spouses need not necessarily be in the high-tech. They get work permits as soon as they clear the language certification requirements. Recently I heard from one a first cousin twice removed from me who said "Germany is a good country to raise children". She and her hubby were in the US in Hubby's H1B but he had to go back to India when his contract was over and couldn't find a job in time. Now they are in a small town in Germany.

[Vayutuvan]

Given the number of diiploma mills, this is not going to help if there are still country limits.

By the way, there are not as many low quality "shop front colleges"/diploma mills in the US as they are in UK/Canada/Australia/NZ.

[pravula]

Given the number of diiploma mills, this is not going to help if there are still country limits.

By the way, there are not as many low quality "shop front colleges"/diploma mills in the US as they are in UK/Canada/Australia/NZ.

There are enough of them...not sure why UK/CA/NZ/AU etc are relevant

[pravula]

Given the number of diiploma mills, this is not going to help if there are still country limits.

My reading is that there are not going to be any country limits. Even if there are, Indian-Americans can lobby to increase the limits for India. I am sure American universities would support increasing the limits for India as they can get a large number of paying Masters students from India or heck even UG students from India. It is a loss for India in the long term but in the short term, the loans these kids took to find their US education will be paid back with interest (in USD). Germany offers PRs immediately to Indian high tech workers, the only requirement being that they get two lowest German language certifications or something like that. Their spouses need not necessarily be in the high-tech. They get work permits as soon as they clear the language certification requirements. Recently I heard from one a first cousin twice removed from me who said "Germany is a good country to raise children". She and her hubby were in the US in Hubby's H1B but he had to go back to India when his contract was over and couldn't find a job in time. Now they are in a small town in Germany.

This lobbying can happen even now...it has been happening and so far, no movement other than lip service from both parties.

[vera_k]

That is correct. The only way I see any movement happen is if 20-30 million people are waiting in the country for citizenship. The left will support legislation because of the prospect of gaining additional votes while the right will support so the lawns stay mowed for cheap.

[Vayutuvan]

There are enough of them...not sure why UK/CA/NZ/AU etc are relevant

I have no reason to believe that. Also "enough" is subjective. What does it mean? What is the percentage vis-a-vis the other countries I mentioned? They are relevant for normalization - diploma mills/total higher ed instis ratio. I picked only those countries which have English as the medium of instruction which also attract a large number of Indian students for higher studies.

If somebody is coming here to do an MS in any STEM area in the top 50 universities, I would say give them Greencards. I think Trump is saying something similar. Let the job market and the employers decide who they want to employ.

I am almost certain that all the first gen Indian-Americans whose children are in IT don't want this. There is quote a large contingent of first gen Indian-Americans who came here on family reunification Greencards. They are all afraid that salaries of their children will be depressed if this was to pass.

[pravula]

There are enough of them...not sure why UK/CA/NZ/AU etc are relevant

I have no reason to believe that. Also "enough" is subjective. What does it mean? What is the percentage vis-a-vis the other countries I mentioned? They are relevant for normalization - diploma mills/total higher ed instis ratio. I picked only those countries which have English as the medium of instruction which also attract a large number of Indian students for higher studies.

If somebody is coming here to do an MS in any STEM area in the top 50 universities, I would say give them Greencards. I think Trump is saying something similar. Let the job market and the employers decide who they want to employ.

I am almost certain that all the first gen Indian-Americans whose children are in IT don't want this. There is quote a large contingent of first gen Indian-Americans who came here on family reunification Greencards. They are all afraid that salaries of their children will be depressed if this was to pass.

I am not sure what your point is. If you think it's not as high as other countries, put up the numbers (although I fail to see why it would be relevant to US policy makers). As far as being "enough of them", look up Devry. Now look up Purdue Global and other online only "universities". Heck, you can get a masters degree from ASU to Stanford (https://online.stanford.edu/masters-degrees) in STEMs without stepping into a classroom.

[Vayutuvan]

(although I fail to see why it would be relevant to US policy makers).

I am countering the point you made - that there are "enough" diploma mills in the US. Define "enough" in this context.

As far as being "enough of them", look up Devry. Now look up Purdue Global and other online only "universities". Heck, you can get a masters degree from ASU to Stanford (https://online.stanford.edu/masters-degrees) in STEMs without stepping into a classroom.

They are not diploma mills - they are honest to good distance education classes. Is it your case that they are not as good as on-campus degrees? Au contraire. Getting a certificate from Stanford in ML/AI is quite difficult. If I were looking to hire folks, I would not hesitate to hire somebody who has Stanford certification over somebody who doesn't all other things being equal.

What are known as "shop front colleges" in UK/AU/Canada are very different. Your equating the US online/distance education degree granting colleges with those "shop front colleges" is totally unjustified.

[Vayutuvan]

https://www.ibtimes.com.au/major-austra ... ty-1851013

Meanwhile, the federal government faced pressure to deport students, who have enrolled into "ghost colleges." Last week, 150 vocational education and training (VET) providers were shut down as they were dormant for more than a year, News.com reported.
...
...
ASQA's integrity unit is investigating the conduct of 165 providers, of which 100 are related to international students. Most of the cases are linked to allegations of fraud and visa or migration risks.

@pravula

Can you tell me how many "ghost colleges " are in the US? How many folks from India enroll and get a two-year AS/AA degree from a community college?

[Vayutuvan]

https://www.highereddive.com/news/are-v ... es/244977/

Here is a 2014 dated article. It lists ten "universities" and makes a reference to the now notorious Tri-Valley University.

[pravula]

https://www.ibtimes.com.au/major-austra ... ty-1851013

Meanwhile, the federal government faced pressure to deport students, who have enrolled into "ghost colleges." Last week, 150 vocational education and training (VET) providers were shut down as they were dormant for more than a year, News.com reported.
...
...
ASQA's integrity unit is investigating the conduct of 165 providers, of which 100 are related to international students. Most of the cases are linked to allegations of fraud and visa or migration risks.

@pravula

Can you tell me how many "ghost colleges " are in the US? How many folks from India enroll and get a two-year AS/AA degree from a community college?

Sure. As soon as you can tell me why is policy makers care about how many diploma colleges are there in the rest of five eyes. Please back it up with proof, otherwise it’s not gonna cut it.

[pravula]

https://www.highereddive.com/news/are-v ... es/244977/

Here is a 2014 dated article. It lists ten "universities" and makes a reference to the now notorious Tri-Valley University.

If you think tri-valley was the only notorious university, I have a bridge in Crimea…

[pravula]

(although I fail to see why it would be relevant to US policy makers).

I am countering the point you made - that there are "enough" diploma mills in the US. Define "enough" in this context.

As far as being "enough of them", look up Devry. Now look up Purdue Global and other online only "universities". Heck, you can get a masters degree from ASU to Stanford (https://online.stanford.edu/masters-degrees) in STEMs without stepping into a classroom.

They are not diploma mills - they are honest to good distance education classes. Is it your case that they are not as good as on-campus degrees? Au contraire. Getting a certificate from Stanford in ML/AI is quite difficult. If I were looking to hire folks, I would not hesitate to hire somebody who has Stanford certification over somebody who doesn't all other things being equal.

What are known as "shop front colleges" in UK/AU/Canada are very different. Your equating the US online/distance education degree granting colleges with those "shop front colleges" is totally unjustified.

Ok, you win. All I know is people running these universities ended up with federal charges and the people in them were up a creek without a paddle. I do not understand why other countries matter here, but that’s your prerogative. I am not engaging anymore.

[Vayutuvan]

I do not understand why other countries matter here, but that’s your prerogative. I am not engaging anymore.

Maybe I am not making myself clear. Let me try once again. "There are enough diploma mills in the US" is a red herring. There are not that many diploma mills in the US such that folks who are getting diplomas from them are going to eat into the number of GCs available to genuine diploma holders from India assuming that there are going to be country quotas.

Moreover approval of PR applications can be tightened so that "diploma mill" graduates would not be able to get approvals.

[disha]

I am not sure what your point is. If you think it's not as high as other countries, put up the numbers (although I fail to see why it would be relevant to US policy makers). As far as being "enough of them", look up Devry. Now look up Purdue Global and other online only "universities". Heck, you can get a masters degree from ASU to Stanford (https://online.stanford.edu/masters-degrees) in STEMs without stepping into a classroom.

DeVry is a trade school. If your point is that ppl taking diploma from trade schools like devry join into the GC band wagon, then that fear is invalid. Companies do not sponsor GCs for DeVry.

The online Masters' programs in Stanford/ASU is for career advancement. It takes 2-3 years to complete online. One has to have an undergraduate degree. Anyone from India can apply, do an online course when accepted and get a Master's and they will still be in India. They will have to get a job with H1B first and come to US and then ask for GC sponsor.

So your fear is invalid if people show up with online masters into the GC line.

On a different note, if a person does go to DeVry (trade school) & gets car fixing diploma and gets a job, then why his or her path to citizenship be eased? Remember, the diplomas (automative fixing, phlebotamists, electricals) etc are good trades offering a path to middle class lifestyle and away from drugs and streets.

If Indians want to become plumbers in US after racing through the boundaries in Mexico or Canada, then I will offer those illegals a path to GC. Right now they do ass-i-lum and show up in protests wherever the Gurudwara asks them to do so. You know where to go to get your data points.

If it gives path to GC for other illegals, that is fine. Remember, with that, the country quota also goes away.

Goal is to remove per country cap.

[disha]

Ok, you win. All I know is people running these universities ended up with federal charges and the people in them were up a creek without a paddle. I do not understand why other countries matter here, but that’s your prerogative. I am not engaging anymore.

Rightfully so. Pravula, do you support dowry? Multi-crore dowry? If yes, then I think you should be banned from this august forum.

If no, then why do people from India run to this fake fly-by-night colleges?

Several of those guys want the US return stamp so that they dowry value goes up. Several of them are "Raja Pappus" (to put it better Bangaru Kodukas, Laadla beta, Tanka Paiyan, Laadlo Deekro, Sonar Chele, Subarna Balak ...), and those Raja Pappus deserve a bamboo shoots for their rosy cheeks (served hot like in a spicy Pho) but instead get silver or golden or platinum spoons.

Hence if you find a stony silence from people like me on "people up a creek without a paddle" after they go to those fake colleges (and diplomas), then people like me are only charitable (wrongfully though, since the dharma calls for calling out the dowry peddlers and serve them hot spicy bamboo shoots).

[Suraj]

Mod Note

Hey folks, I'm trying to make sense of some post reports here. I have no idea what you're all arguing about, but it doesn't look like any of you are having much luck convincing on another. So why not just move on, put one another on your ignore lists if needed and otherwise avoid making the situation worse ? Thanks.

[sanman]

US govt blowing hot-&-cold, flipping like a weather-vane from one day to the next?
Very unbefitting of a superpower.

Is this happening because Jake Sullivan's visit to China didn't work out well?
It feels like interns have been put in charge. Sullivan literally looks like an intern who suddenly got promoted to a management position.
This is what happens when a govt brings in Woke kool-aid kids. It's the product of ideological bankruptcy.



Is Modi about to do his own Garcetti game by visiting US? If so, then I'm impressed.

[chetak]

US govt blowing hot-&-cold, flipping like a weather-vane from one day to the next?
Very unbefitting of a superpower.

Is this happening because Jake Sullivan's visit to China didn't work out well?
It feels like interns have been put in charge. Sullivan literally looks like an intern who suddenly got promoted to a management position.
This is what happens when a govt brings in Woke kool-aid kids. It's the product of ideological bankruptcy.

[youtube]wZlrf2ZAfP4[youtube]

Is Modi about to do his own Garcetti game by visiting US ? If so, then I'm impressed.

sanman ji,

garshitty gets absolutely minimal traction in India

why put lipstick on a pig ...

Prime Minister Narendra Modi will address a major community event in New York on September 22 during a visit to the city to attend the UN’s Summit of the Future.

visiting the POTUS in the course of a prescheduled trip is like a rest room stop, nothing more, nothing less, and the amrikis are well aware of the setting sun syndrome

No one knows what the sunrise will bring

Interestingly, some daleep singh, deputy NSA or assistant janitor, a clown who openly threatened India during his previous sojurn is being sent posthaste to dilli to pour oil over troubled waters, now that yunus has revealed himself to be a prized re(t@m

daleep singh is now, rather wisely this time around, manifesting in a new snake oil salesman avatar, far removed from the previous ‘sanctions’ singh persona that he used and also abused the traditional Indian welcome and hospitality

One imagines that a rather interesting "welcome" awaits this low level errand boy in the corridors of नई दिल्ली


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr


I hope we can offer better value than Moscow to India on defence or energy: US Deputy NSA

Daleep Singh, US deputy national security advisor, will visit India to discuss geoeconomic issues and align industrial strategies against the China challenge. He will meet with Indian officials and business leaders to explore collaboration in AI, biotechnology, semiconductors, and clean energy while addressing concerns over Chinese overcapacity.

BTW, sanman ji, you seem quite adept at changing horses midstream ......

But I'm saying that has yet to be determined before November 8, and therefore Indian PM should wait until after that date to go visit Washington.

What is the benefit in going now, ahead of that date?

Again, it all looks very unseemly and unbefitting of India's PM to do this. It looks like an act of fearful kowtowing.

viewtopic.php?p=2628448#p2628448

[Cyrano]

Here it is from someone who admits he'll be soon out of his job.

[sanman]

BTW, sanman ji, you seem quite adept at changing horses midstream ......

But I'm saying that has yet to be determined before November 8, and therefore Indian PM should wait until after that date to go visit Washington.

What is the benefit in going now, ahead of that date?

Again, it all looks very unseemly and unbefitting of India's PM to do this. It looks like an act of fearful kowtowing.

viewtopic.php?p=2628448#p2628448

You missed my point that I was making -- I was directly saying that I previously felt unhappy that Modi was running to Washington like a scolded schoolboy, but if he's actually doing it to take his political fight to Washington on their own turf, then I find that impressive/courageous

That's not some unacknowledged flip-flop from me -- I'm directly conceding that I seem to have previously misjudged Modi's intentions in making this trip.

However, I'll further say that it's not clear to me that this gambit will work. But as long as he's not going as a supplicant, then I don't mind him at least trying.

Usually, when relations between 2 countries take a hit, then visits get cancelled. For instance, Biden was supposed to make a visit to India, but that got cancelled. If Modi is somehow going to push on with a US visit while maintaining a solid defiance, then okay - let's try it and see what happens.

[chetak]

BTW, sanman ji, you seem quite adept at changing horses midstream ......





viewtopic.php?p=2628448#p2628448

You missed my point that I was making -- I was directly saying that I previously felt unhappy that Modi was running to Washington like a scolded schoolboy, but if he's actually doing it to take his political fight to Washington on their own turf, then I find that impressive/courageous

That's not some unacknowledged flip-flop from me -- I'm directly conceding that I seem to have previously misjudged Modi's intentions in making this trip.

However, I'll further say that it's not clear to me that this gambit will work. But as long as he's not going as a supplicant, then I don't mind him at least trying.

Usually, when relations between 2 countries take a hit, then visits get cancelled. For instance, Biden was supposed to make a visit to India, but that got cancelled. If Modi is somehow going to push on with a US visit while maintaining a solid defiance, then okay - let's try it and see what happens.

sanman ji,


Be assured that no one on the forum has missed any of your points, especially when you persist, despite being politely advised on multiple occasions, against using unwarranted and hurtful pejoratives like "scolded schoolboy", "act of fearful kowtowing" and such like for a democratically elected, and verifiably fair election(s) winning, third time PM.

These are elections that have been globally acknowledged as free, fair and above board, with even the most bitter and evil of India's enemies endorsing this fact, and the man has had the highest global rating among world leaders for many years running now.

We get that you are not a fan but there is no need to constantly belabour this point unless there is an agenda in play.

your entire post could quite easily have been deft and courteous, as well as, more graciously phrased, but you seem to have wilfully chosen not to do so, despite having an excellent command over the language.

sanman ji, you definitely have it in you to go for smooth, suave, and subtle .... trust me when I say that it makes for a better fit

BTW, Modi ji is not "visiting" washington as a supplicant, he is understandably displeased at what the amrikis have done to the beedis and deliberately caused problems for a friendly country like India, which they, the amrikis, describe as one among their few vital "allies"

As per moi, this is their third strike against India: first, the afghanistan fiasco, second, the interference in the 2024 Indian elections, and third, the deliberate destabilization of the beedis and the resulting genocide of the Hindus there, with 2/3 strikes aimed straight at India.

High powered weapons from the afghanistan fiasco, the amriki "gift to the taliban" are increasingly finding their way into cashmere and, IMVHO, this is again an amriki attempt at gross meddling in the cashmere elections

[sanman]

sanman ji,


Be assured that no one on the forum has missed any of your points, especially when you persist, despite being politely advised on multiple occasions, against using unwarranted and hurtful pejoratives like "scolded schoolboy", "act of fearful kowtowing" and such like for a democratically elected, and verifiably fair election(s) winning, third time PM.

These are elections that have been globally acknowledged as free, fair and above board, with even the most bitter and evil of India's enemies endorsing this fact, and the man has had the highest global rating among world leaders for many years running now.

We get that you are not a fan but there is no need to constantly belabour this point unless there is an agenda in play.

No, don't get so injured and don't spin it like that. I like Modi more than all the other politicians in India. But I feel that choosing a politician is always about choosing "least worst". I don't merely say that in regards to Modi & Co, I say it in regards to any and all politicians, for any situation in any country.

Likewise, I like Jaishankar more than all other foreign secretaries. He's far more able than others in that position have been. But I still remember that moment where he was sitting on a stage with an interviewer on one side of him, and US SecState Anthony Blinken on the other side of him. And Jaishankar was cheerily saying "Well, I like to keep my options open, so that my country can't be cornered, you should all praise me for that."
And Tony Blinken was sitting there quietly, with only a polite faint smile on his face.

I can only imagine what Blinken must have been thinking at the time ("Yap now, buddy - but we're going to fix you with a coup nextdoor - and then another in your home capital soon after")
Later, watching Jaishankar respond to questions in parliament after the Bangla coup, he was certainly showing a more subdued tone of someone who'd been caught off-guard by that coup. The Americans are apex-level predators, and they know how to show us upstarts our place.
So I do worry that we've been displaying "Shock & Awe".

Yes, I do belabour my points, because I don't get any responses. So I appreciate that you're at least giving me a response/assessment, even if we disagree with each other.

your entire post could quite easily have been deft and courteous, as well as, more graciously phrased, but you seem to have wilfully chosen not to do so, despite having an excellent command over the language.

sanman ji, you definitely have it in you to go for smooth, suave, and subtle .... trust me when I say that it makes for a better fit

Sir, if my wording is at times blunt or piquant, it's because I need to provoke a response/assessment from the rest of you, so that I can get your own feedback and thoughts (not on me, but on the matter at hand). A discussion forum works best when we have 2-way discussion (ie. I post my thoughts and you tell me what you agree/disagree with & why, and vice-versa)
A lot of the time I feel I'm posting in vain, and not getting read. When I see someone posting something I disagree with, I try to speak up and say why.
Yes, I understand that all my comments are just my own subjective opinions, with all their attendant prejudices.

BTW, Modi ji is not "visiting" washington as a supplicant, he is understandably displeased at what the amrikis have done to the beedis and deliberately caused problems for a friendly country like India, which they, the amrikis, describe as one among their few vital "allies"

As per moi, this is their third strike against India: first, the afghanistan fiasco, second, the interference in the 2024 Indian elections, and third, the deliberate destabilization of the beedis and the resulting genocide of the Hindus there, with 2/3 strikes aimed straight at India.

Yup, I'm in agreement with you. We've just allowed ourselves to keep getting punched again and again, and that's why nobody gives a second thought about punching us, again and again. Especially not the apex superpower and global hegemon, the United States.

I feel that we need to pay more attention to the fact that the current rulers in Washington DC do not represent US national interests.
It wasn't in the US national interest to overthrow the Yanuckovitch govt with the Maidan coup in 2014.
But that coup was done as part of a chain of events: a chain that involved invading/kililng Saddam, doing same to Qadafi, and trying to on Assad.
What's happened is that NeoCons are in charge of US foreign policy, and they are hyper-aggressive stuntsmen who are totally wedded to using American instruments of hard power, including regime change coups.
These people are like a brain parasite: they have taken over the US foreign policy brain, and are controlling the host body (American state), and the only way to stop them is to pry/dislodge them from their controlling position.
Trump inadvertently wandered onto their turf by showing up unannounced, thus mucking up their plans and provoking their wrath & fury.

Just as Trump thwarted the NeoCon plans for return to power thru Jeb Bush, likewise Trump has yet again defeated their next warhorse Nikita Randhawa (South Carolinian Nikki Haley) with some timely help from Vivek Ramaswamy.

Assassination attempt against Trump hasn't worked. (Yes, I believe that assassination attempt was likely orchestrated by these NeoCons, due to them being impulsive hyper-aggressive stuntsmen who believe in hard-power first and not last)

My point in saying all these things is that the NeoCons cannot be reasoned with.
If a man/host is infected with a brain parasite, and is engaging in horrendous behaviour because of it, then you cannot reason with that infected man or with the parasite that's causing his bad behaviour. Likewise, you cannot reason with a rabid animal or with the rabies inside it.
You cannot reason with a parasite or a pathogen. Likewise, you cannot reason with a host organism that is in the grip of the parasite or pathogen.

So that brings me to the subject of who or what Modi & Co will be trying to engage with during this visit.
Are they going to try to reason with the NeoCons?
Or are they just going to try to engage with Congressmen and other Washington officials? (Those people are all in the grip of the NeoCon lobby)
I'm also at pains to say that "NeoCon" is a rather poor descriptor of these people, who actually exist in both major political parties on both sides of the aisle, as well as in the Deep State. They only acquired that label because they first strongly manifested themselves and their predatory agenda during the Bush-Cheney whitehouse. But they are actually spread out much more widely than that.
These people have now incorporated Obama Democrats, in what now amounts to a marriage of the Deep State + Welfare State.
All of these people together are solidly Never-Trumpers.

High powered weapons from the afghanistan fiasco, the amriki "gift to the taliban" are increasingly finding their way into cashmere and, IMVHO, this is again an amriki attempt at gross meddling in the cashmere elections

Afghanistan is bleeding weapons all over, and that's hurting us, no doubt.
But we seem to have reached an understanding with Taliban, who are now increasingly taking the fight to Pakistan via TTP and even BLA.

We need to keep pushing that offensive strategy to the hilt, to bust Pak sooner rather than later.
This is a kill-or-be-killed situation. We need to Karna them while their chariot is stuck.
We don't need their rotten game, just like Russia doesn't need Zelensky games.
Time to roll them up ASAP.

(As always, I appreciate commentary and feedback from all of you on all points I've raised.)

[sanman]

[sanman]

This was worth a watch/listen:



Some of General P R Shankar's points I agree with, and others I disagree with.

I agree with him that Washington did Bangla regime change without having a real plan on what to do afterwards - and now it's fumbling around.

But I find his understanding of why and what to do, to be lacking.
He feels that this has happened because there are just some Random India-Haters in the US State Dept.
He feels that we should therefore respond with constructive dialogue and engagement to enlighten Washington officials on why fighting us will only help China and hurt US national interests.

But again, it goes back to what I said before: the people ruling Washington are nakedly and explicitly detached from any and all US national interests.
The fact that they don't care about their own wide open US Southern border, is a dead giveaway.
They are all special interest lobbies, who have tossed US national interests out the window, in a corrupt bargain with each other.
Lunatics have taken over the asylum.
So for Bangla, as with Ukraine, these NeoCon warmongers are good at starting wars and other mischief, but they're not good at fighting those wars or winning them. They're not good at managing the crises they've started.

Note that these crooks are all Atlantic-leaning types, and so naturally they don't give a hoot about China, other than the risk of China intruding on their turf. So if China backs Russia in the Ukraine war, then that does get the ruling dispensation in Washington upset. If China backs Iran, and starts brokering reconciliation and solidarity between Hamas, Fatah and other Palestinian factions, then the powers-that-be in Washington will get upset.
But aside from intrusions on their own special interest turfs, these ascendant lobbies ruling Washington don't give that much of a damn about China.
That's the whole reason why they allowed China to join WTO and become an economic colossus in the first place -- because China is so far removed from the sacred precious Atlantic sphere, that they give China a free pass.