Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[pravula]

But isn’t this (interlinked economy and supply chains leading to better efficiency and lower cost) the goal of globalization? There will be a cost to decouple and not be dependent on others, but are we ready to absorb it?

[isubodh]

But isn’t this (interlinked economy and supply chains leading to better efficiency and lower cost) the goal of globalization? There will be a cost to decouple and not be dependent on others, but are we ready to absorb it?

And that's not the only risk mitigation plan, especially when house is on fire, no point to start digging well.
Can the project planners plan with contingency for such things. Why it's just in time orders n delivery.
Why can some buffer stock be kept to tide over supply constraints.

[Haridas]

The charge amplifiers are used for capacitive type vibration/accelerometer sensors if i am not wrong. These accelerometers/vibration sensors are of 90s origin .New solid state sensors are available from aome vendors, which can be used. only thing is development time and certification is time consuming.

Piloted aircrafts do not use MEMS IMU elements (due to poor drift specification) , rather use laser rate gyros RLG etc.

[Rakesh]

The gentlemen in the top two pictures (I believe) are;

1) At Left: Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria (retd)

2) At Right: Air Marshal Amar Preet Singh, current VCAS and in line to be CAS on 30 Sept 2024.

https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/18 ... 3697508818 ---> Tejas Flight/Aviation Helmets.

[Rakesh]

Below is a CGI and not a real photograph.

https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/18 ... 4143800740 ---> Those who are Radiant never give up.

[basant]

IAF chief on Tejas delivery delay: HAL has limitations, need private players to chip in

“It is a known fact that the Tejas aircraft has been delayed. If the promise of producing 24 aircraft per year, that delay can be addressed. We need to look at private players coming in. HAL has also its own limitations and looking at the numbers involved, we need the private industry to chip in to meet the production challenges,” Singh said while addressing a press conference.

All I hope and pray for is that one day, we will be blessed with mature leadership at IAF — we deserve that. Enough of the national shame we faced when we received 36 Rafales in July 2022, six years after signing the contract in September 2016 amidst China stand-off …, cheering each Rafale as it landed in India. Now IAF aims for 24 Tejas per year. Fine. But why don’t they pay or invest in HAL to increase production rate? If HAL can produce helicopters at a rate higher than that of absorption by the Services, HAL should be able to do the same with Tejas.

Oh yes, there is an issue with engine procurement due to the Ukraine war and supply chain disruptions. So how exactly will private players resolve this problem? What will they use in place of a missing engine to make the aircraft fly? IAF's hopes?

Those blaming bureaucrats should consider a couple of things. The problems we face today are largely due to the lack of 'expert feedback' from the IAF. If only they had pushed for Kaveri engine development in parallel, we might not be in this position today! Especially given the sanctions the programme faced after Pokhran 2. No bureaucrat would ever disgrace himself by questioning why a fan requires a motor or an aircraft needs an engine. Funding for the development of HTFE-25 is a clear proof. Anyone who followed defence over the years also knows that same happened with advance payments for Su-30s, funding for nuclear weapon development, etc. It is high time for us to recognize the real issue and hand over the procurement process, including SQRs, to the bureaucrats. They may cause some delays, but there are countless examples where they have delivered impressive results in a short time. Look at CEC, Konkan Railways, Vande Bharat, RBI, in fact, stunning 1991-96 reforms across board (with total support from Sh PVNR). The bureaucracy seems to be our only hope (provided competent officers are selected).

While there probably was a two-year delay related to the manufacture of GE F414 components in India (which was a requirement since 2010 and happened due to lack of a desi engine), the long-term benefits would likely offset similar supplier issues. As F414s are used by many others, and are probably going to be used for not only the Tejas Mk2, but also for some number of AMCA and TEDBF (who knows, ORCA) too. Actually, some of the supplier problems in future could actually end up benefiting us due to local manufacturing of a good percent of components!

[ashishvikas]

LA-5034

https://x.com/FighterPiloting/status/18 ... 79730?s=19

Possibly, 2nd fighter of MK1A configuration took it's first flight.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/CheckSix_Bison/status/1848220006871376351 ---> Gotta love the new flight patch for the Tejas Mk 1A! New weapons in the Astra BVRAAM and MBDA's ASRAAM!

[Manish_P]

https://x.com/CheckSix_Bison/status/1848220006871376351 ---> Gotta love the new flight patch for the Tejas Mk 1A! New weapons in the Astra BVRAAM and MBDA's ASRAAM!
...

The patch, like the fighter jet it represents, is also punching well above it's weight class

[ashishvikas]

JDAM

https://x.com/hvtiaf_bharat/status/1849 ... 18122?s=09 ---> IAF Tejas getting more lethal with each passing day. Wow pic by @Praneethfrank

[Rakesh]

JDAM

https://x.com/hvtiaf_bharat/status/1849 ... 18122?s=09 ---> IAF Tejas getting more lethal with each passing day. Wow pic by @Praneethfrank

JDAM on Tejas. Nice! Gorgeous photo.

[Rakesh]

JDAM

https://x.com/hvtiaf_bharat/status/1849 ... 18122?s=09 ---> IAF Tejas getting more lethal with each passing day. Wow pic by @Praneethfrank

https://x.com/wartrophy_414/status/1849056873455988933 ---> Tejas is now integrated with:

>AASM Hammer
>JDAM ER
>Griffin LGB

Now pending is SAAW, Gaurav & Gautam. It's really funny to me that under EP IAF managed to import JDAM ER kits but couldn't accelerate induction for SAAW which should have been bread & butter of our PGM stocks.

[srai]

^^^
Glide PGM

• SAAW
• LRGB (500kg/1000kg)
• TARA / PG-HSLD

AGM

• Rudram-1
• Rudram-2/3
• NASM-SR/MR
• SANT-like anti-armor?
• Brahmos-NG (if ever a reality)

[ashishvikas]

Make way for the Boss

ASTRA + SPJ on SP-33 (LA-5033)

https://x.com/hvtiaf_bharat/status/1849 ... 86600?s=19

[Aditya_V]

Make way for the Boss

ASTRA + SPJ on SP-33 (LA-5033)

https://x.com/hvtiaf_bharat/status/1849 ... 86600?s=19

So is this CAP Payload- 2 800 KG Drop tanks+2458KG*(specific weight .775-0.840) less Fuel for Take off and Bingo Fuel for landing = 4000 Liters of Fuel endurance with GE404 IN fuel efficiency+ Refueling also available- while carrying SPJ+ 1 CCM +2 BVR. Small Radar cross section means a SAAB 2000 Erieye ,may not pick it

So in 26 Feb 19-27 Feb 19 the PAF will have a far nastier surprise than what Group Capitan Abhinandan provided them

So it keep a long endurance.

My pet theory is that the some dubious persons with the American establishment had previously supplied ~ 5 Aim 120 C-7/8 before Pulwama, PAF in the Northern group of F-16's used them against Avenger-1 Su30 Mki- and 1 AIMc-120 was fired at very close 20Km range in the Southern group - by that faker Hassan Siddiqui like the MM Alam guy.

The recovered Aim120 C5 was from Reasi district(South of the Pir Panjals) shot at the wingman of Group Captain Abhinandan not the Su-30 Avenger 1 flying over the Kashmir Valley.

After we recovered the remaining the C7-C8 missiles and if full disclosure is given AMRAAM Slammer reputation will take a beating, the US was able to nudge a panicking Paki leadership who could see all their plans in the escalation cycle were completely unravelling- the Paki+3.5 friends played the only card in hand- release of Group Captain Abhinandan.

Otherwise they never showed such curtsies in the past having decided to escalate in a big way by Conducting the Pulwama attack- can never forgetting the Cheerleading of that attack by Kejriwal- RG and Assorted Non Indian residing within India.

[vonkabra]

Make way for the Boss

Is this a real image or CGI? Also no CCM in the loadout?

[Kartik]

Tweet link

Tejas Mk1A LA-5033, with Astra Mk1 BVRAAM and Scorpius SP jammer (Elta EL-8222SB). IAI had reported a sale of the AESA DRFM Scorpius SPJ to an Asian customer in 2022.

[Kartik]

Tweet link

Another image of LSP-8 with Elta Scorpius SPJ.

[Rakesh]

Tweet link

Tejas Mk1A LA-5033, with Astra Mk1 BVRAAM and Scorpius SP jammer (Elta EL-8222SB). IAI had reported a sale of the AESA DRFM Scorpius SPJ to an Asian customer in 2022.

Great pictures. Thank you for posting.

IAI Awarded Multi-Million Dollar Deal for AESA Airborne Self Protection Jammer Pods for an Air Force in Asia
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/iai-awarded- ... ce-in-asia
21 June 2022

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1849736089537302828 ---> One more thing, the jammer you are seeing here is not the legacy IAI's ELL 8222 it's the Scorpius SPJ, a very advanced AESA version of ELL 8222 also known as ELL 8222SB. Block III's air-cooled AESA will be blinded before getting knocked down by an Astra from nowhere.

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1849756889325650393 ---> I hope this proves it. In the first photo, we see the difference between ELL 8222 & 8222SB, as well as the one which Tejas Mk1A is carrying. In the second photo, we have an Indian Navy's MiG 29K with the Legacy ELL 8222.

[Rakesh]

JDAM

https://x.com/hvtiaf_bharat/status/1849 ... 18122?s=09 ---> IAF Tejas getting more lethal with each passing day. Wow pic by @Praneethfrank

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1849709260608860644 ---> Powered JDAM is very different from Jthe DAM-ER. The JDAM-ER is likely the JDAM that the IAF has bought and seen onboard the Tejas. The PJDAM uses a J85 engine for which MoU was signed in just October 2023. Range is stated to be about 400 km. The PJDAM is in development.

[Sumeet]

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1849736089537302828 ---> One more thing, the jammer you are seeing here is not the legacy IAI's ELL 8222 it's the Scorpius SPJ, a very advanced AESA version of ELL 8222 also known as ELL 8222SB. Block III's air-cooled AESA will be blinded before getting knocked down by an Astra from nowhere.

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1849756889325650393 ---> I hope this proves it. In the first photo, we see the difference between ELL 8222 & 8222SB, as well as the one which Tejas Mk1A is carrying. In the second photo, we have an Indian Navy's MiG 29K with the Legacy ELL 8222.

Yes that is most likely ELL 8222SB which is based on scorpius family of EW systems that uses AESA tech featuring GaN SSA.

Combo of Astra mk1/mk2 + GaN based AESA Jammer + DRFM based techniques generator is lethal especially when backed by Phalcon AWACS.

To make things more potent one can throw in X-guard towed decoy which can take cues from the jammer pod's DRFM based techniques generator.

[Rakesh]

How Scorpius Self-Protection Jammer Will Improve Tejas Mk1A Jet
https://defence.in/threads/how-scorpius ... bat.10887/
27 Oct 2024

[Kartik]

GE has been penalised by invoking the penalty clause in the contract, for failure to deliver a single new F-404-IN20 engine from the contract it signed. Now they are stating that deliveries will begin from March-April 2025. Absolutely unbelievable that a firm as reputed as GE is not able to meet contractual obligations to this degree. 2 year delay thanks to their incompetence!

They're going to supply 2 new F-404 engines which will be used to deliver the first batch of Tejas Mk1A to the IAF.

Penalty clause invoked against GE for engine delays for LCA Mk1A

India has invoked the contractual obligations on U.S. engine manufacturer General Electric (GE) for repeated delays in deliveries of the F-404 engines to power the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)-Mk1A manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). However, sources said there were [no] politics involved, and termed it a “pure logistical issue.”

There are two engines available with GE now that will be given to India, sources said. They will be used to deliver two jets to the Indian Air Force (IAF) to account for deliveries in the current Financial Year.

The regular delivery of engines is now expected by March-April 2025, which is a two-year delay from the contractual terms, an official source in the know said. As per the contract, the original equipment manufacturer will be penalised and the same will be implemented, the source said. Another source in the know confirmed that the penalty clause in the deal has been invoked.

...

[Kartik]

Similar article from Tribune that also confirms that the penalty clause has been invoked. I had been stating this on Twitter, that the penalty clause ought to be invoked so that GE suffers financial losses for the tremendous delays it has caused to the Tejas Mk1A program.

India invokes penalty clause as GE delays jet engines

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/kachra_seth123/status/1851155686664585289 ---> So basically GE is outsourcing production of certain key components required for the F404 engine to a South Korean manufacturer which is failing to deliver.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/KSingh_1469/status/1851222396163727822 ---> Yes let’s celebrate that India’s entire current and future (LCA MK.2, AMCA MK.2, TEDBF) fighter fleet is tied to this OEM but hey they may give a 1-2% discount as a ‘penalty’. April ‘24 became October ‘24 became November ‘24 and is now maybe March/April ‘25.

[Rakesh]

India imposes penalties on GE for 2-yr delay in delivery of Tejas engines, delivery to start by April
https://theprint.in/defence/india-impos ... l/2333021/
29 Oct 2024

On whether GE faces a penalty clause, the sources said, “All contract obligations will be met. All clauses will be invoked.”

“It (penalty) has been imposed more than once,” a source said.

Meanwhile, government sources said GE’s delay in delivering the engines was not part of any US “pressure tactics”. They said GE has a tie-up with a South Korean firm, and the latter has been facing financial issues and could not deliver certain components. “We have told GE to provide us with the transfer of technology for the same, and we will make it here,” the source said.

Questioned why the IAF has not received a single aircraft yet, the sources defended HAL. They said the weapons integration is recent, and a foreign company delayed the Tejas delivery. Moreover, Israel, caught up in a conflict, failed to integrate the radar in time. The trials of the aircraft are taking place now and, after their completion, the Tejas delivery will start, the sources said.

[basant]

https://x.com/KSingh_1469/status/1851222396163727822 ---> Yes let’s celebrate that India’s entire current and future (LCA MK.2, AMCA MK.2, TEDBF) fighter fleet is tied to this OEM but hey they may give a 1-2% discount as a ‘penalty’. April ‘24 became October ‘24 became November ‘24 and is now maybe March/April ‘25.

That's not generally how penalties work, at least as per my experience. The offered price includes penalties as a safety measure, well, most of the time anyway. Further, GE had no incentive in not including the penalty in its offer given the TINA factor.

[drnayar]

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1849736089537302828 ---> One more thing, the jammer you are seeing here is not the legacy IAI's ELL 8222 it's the Scorpius SPJ, a very advanced AESA version of ELL 8222 also known as ELL 8222SB. Block III's air-cooled AESA will be blinded before getting knocked down by an Astra from nowhere.

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1849756889325650393 ---> I hope this proves it. In the first photo, we see the difference between ELL 8222 & 8222SB, as well as the one which Tejas Mk1A is carrying. In the second photo, we have an Indian Navy's MiG 29K with the Legacy ELL 8222.

Yes that is most likely ELL 8222SB which is based on scorpius family of EW systems that uses AESA tech featuring GaN SSA.

Combo of Astra mk1/mk2 + GaN based AESA Jammer + DRFM based techniques generator is lethal especially when backed by Phalcon AWACS.

To make things more potent one can throw in X-guard towed decoy which can take cues from the jammer pod's DRFM based techniques generator.

the Rafale F4 carry active decoys as far as i know, not sure if thats the one.

seems like the IAF has come into very interesting tactical combinations for a bvr scenario

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/KSingh_1469/status/1851222396163727822 ---> Yes let’s celebrate that India’s entire current and future (LCA MK.2, AMCA MK.2, TEDBF) fighter fleet is tied to this OEM but hey they may give a 1-2% discount as a ‘penalty’. April ‘24 became October ‘24 became November ‘24 and is now maybe March/April ‘25.

That's not generally how penalties work, at least as per my experience. The offered price includes penalties as a safety measure, well, most of the time anyway. Further, GE had no incentive in not including the penalty in its offer given the TINA factor.

https://x.com/manupubby/status/1851247793538584723 ---> It has been noted that some media organisations have carried a story that India plans to impose penalties on GE for delay in delivery of Tejas engines. Story is factually incorrect as there was no such proposal under consideration. The contract is between HAL & GE: MoD officials.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/manupubby/status/1851247793538584723 ---> It has been noted that some media organisations have carried a story that India plans to impose penalties on GE for delay in delivery of Tejas engines. Story is factually incorrect as there was no such proposal under consideration. The contract is between HAL & GE: MoD officials.

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1851292313626296653 ---> MoD denies story that India plans to impose penalties on GE for delay in delivery of F404 engines for Tejas Mk1A. Apparently there was no such proposal under consideration. So no effort for 110kN or to restart Kaveri AB even after such big delays, but rushes to soothe GE? Pathetic.

[maitya]

It seems HAL has been able to maintain the production tempo and have produced 14 MK1A airframes so far - of course these 14 airframes are pending final integration, which obviously will happen, once GE has been able to deliver the required F404s.
Any established news outlet reporting this?

[ashishvikas]

Another LCA manufacturing line by private sector economically unviable
Sources within the government said that such a move would lead to too much duplication, will increase costs, and is economically unviable
Updated - November 03, 2024

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 823216.ece

[uddu]

Rajnath Singh Opens New Plant To Double Homegrown Fighter Plane Production
https://www.ndtv.com/bangalore-news/raj ... on-2361868
"The HAL's second production line alone will generate employment for 500-600 people. Since we will only assemble the jets here, all our outsourcing for parts and sub-assemblies will also generate employment," EP Jayadeva said.
This is the first time that Indian private players are partnering to manufacture aircraft fuselage and wings.

Private players are now manufacturing fuselage and wings. One can only expect mass manufacturing of fighters within the nation by private players if we are in a position to have our own Kaveri engine of any variant integrated with Tejas. That's when private players themselves can turn integrators. Engine or imported component sanction can lead to disaster for private players. It will be redux of Pipavav Shipyard Limited offshore patrol vessel fiasco. Good news is that about 17 or so companies are participating in making structures and components of Tejas MKII and AMCA, that itself will speed up the process.

[ashishvikas]

Rajnath Singh Opens New Plant To Double Homegrown Fighter Plane Production
https://www.ndtv.com/bangalore-news/raj ... on-2361868
"The HAL's second production line alone will generate employment for 500-600 people. Since we will only assemble the jets here, all our outsourcing for parts and sub-assemblies will also generate employment," EP Jayadeva said.
This is the first time that Indian private players are partnering to manufacture aircraft fuselage and wings.

Private players are now manufacturing fuselage and wings. One can only expect mass manufacturing of fighters within the nation by private players if we are in a position to have our own Kaveri engine of any variant integrated with Tejas. That's when private players themselves can turn integrators. Engine or imported component sanction can lead to disaster for private players. It will be redux of Pipavav Shipyard Limited offshore patrol vessel fiasco. Good news is that about 17 or so companies are participating in making structures and components of Tejas MKII and AMCA, that itself will speed up the process.

This Article is From Feb 02, 2021.

[uddu]

^^ Absolutely the article is from 2021. Did that mean the offshoring of production of Wings and Fuselage to Pvt companies stopped? I wanted to bring to your attention the reason for private players not ready to set up plants for Tejas at the moment. Until Kaveri is there and every now and then some Denmark is sanctioning components, no one want to end up losing investment. Small components can be sourced from alternative sources within the nation. Engine is not like that. Though they will happily participate in the low risk task of manufacturing components for HAL.

[rkhanna]

^^ no one want to end up losing investment.

The Gov't could backstop the Investment incase of "certain circumstances" - The Taxpayer supports many sectors including Roads, Agri and O&G etc? We could do this as well - btw maynot result in additional votes come election time though.

[Cyrano]

If there is so much uncertainty on engine supply then beyond a certain number there is no point creating a backlog of airframes and components, irrespective of who is making them, HAL or PSUs or private sector.

Hopefully delivery bottlenecks will be sorted out after the next POTUS is in charge.

[sanman]

Cat B Engine to Solve Tejas Mk1A issues