Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Karan M
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

nachiket wrote: 17 Oct 2024 22:02
Manish_P wrote: 17 Oct 2024 21:34 Reality b) - we seem to always be just one election away from disaster. The fact is the current opposition might well stop any little efforts being taken now simply out of petty spite or deep malice or to divert money to their coffers or to curry favor from the enemies for self gain or any or all combination of such reasons.
I'm sorry but we cannot blame the opposition for this situation. The present government has been in power for over 10 years now and for most of that time with a healthy majority with the opposition being in shambles at the center. Aside from when Shri Parrikar was at the helm of the MoD we have seen some horrendous decision making, delays and betrayal of their own push for Atmanirbharta when it comes to defence procurement. You can blame the services for this for sure, but the buck ultimately stops with the Defence Minister and his boss the PM who have been given the authority to fix this mess by the people which they have failed to do so far.
Absolutely correct.

Multiple RFPs are now out which are basically a clone of what is available with DRDO and pvt partners but cleverly include Make (India) as versus IDDM. If this is not a betrayal of atmanirbharta by the forces procurement teams what is.

Plus this when, the DM is the one stopping the mess that has been pushed downwards to allow for all this and constantly prioritise social spending, willy nilly privatisation (and gut DRDO, state R&D in the process).

If not for the DMs pragmatism we'd be in far deeper trouble. Which says a lot for the over centralised, opaque system that exists now, depending on a handful of good folks. And we have people here who want more "perception management" as versus objectively speaking the truth.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

nachiket wrote: 17 Oct 2024 22:02 ...
I'm sorry but we cannot blame the opposition for this situation.
<OT> I might have worded the sentence wrong, Nachiket ji. What I was meaning to say was that the opposition, if and when they come to power, might just stop/stall current ongoing programs simply out of spite or to divert the money to their own coffers.

I am certainly not saying this present government has done a good job. And I have been very critical of the import lobby. This goverment started to make an effort to make India independent and dismantle the import lobby. It immediately caused alarm bells in 'friends' and foes alike, resulting in activation of all possible means to remove anyone or anything which might change the status quo. 'Saam, daam, dand, bhed' is in action against us right now. Street power, Media/NGO/Political engagement of Judiciary to reign in / reverse the changes all is being tried.

My humble and fervent hope at present is that the current GoI at least succeeds in building up a very good arms export industry and business - both from private and govermental orgs. It has to help the likes of Baba Kalyani, SSS defence etc to survive and grow even as it gives orders to sarkari organisations like the OFBs and the HALs.

Their survival and thriving will inevitably give rise to an export lobby which will exert influence on the future political masters. Seeing more and more countries using our systems will make it difficult for the import bahadurs to justify their demands. The politicians and baboos who take bribes from the import lobbies now will not mind taking bribes from the export lobbies in the future.
</OT>
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by drnayar »

Manish_P wrote: 18 Oct 2024 08:57 <OT> I might have worded the sentence wrong, Nachiket ji....
Be careful what you wish for... the military complex beyond a certain stage is a parasite.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

drnayar wrote: 18 Oct 2024 10:10 ..
Be careful what you wish for... the military complex beyond a certain stage is a parasite.
Let's get near that stage first.. it's decades away for now.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

In this thrilling episode of Extreme Flight IAF, the Indian Air Force faces unforgiving conditions where temperatures drop to -50°C and fierce winds reach 160 km/h. Discover how these brave pilots take on dangerous missions, delivering essential supplies to remote locations that are otherwise inaccessible. Witness their resilience and skill as they conquer the challenges of extreme weather, only on National Geographic India.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by srai »

When IDDM products are ready (after endless trials), order in bulk … not piecemeal :twisted:
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Qatari Offer: $49,920,000 x 12 aircraft = $599,040,000 ($599+ million)
India's Offer: $36,000,000 x 12 aircraft = $432,000,000 ($432+ million)

Impasse over $167,040,000 ($167+ million). Does the PMO have to get involved? :P

Indian Air Force negotiates to purchase 12 French Mirage 2000-5 fighters from Qatar
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/ae ... from-qatar
24 Oct 2024
Price remains a significant sticking point in the negotiations. Qatar is asking for ₹4,160,000,000 (approximately $49,920,000) per aircraft, while the IAF is seeking a price closer to ₹3,000,000,000 (approximately $36,000,000) per aircraft, which would include spare engines and additional MICA air-to-air missiles. Some within the IAF support delaying the purchase to focus on developing the domestically produced Tejas MkII fighter, which offers a projected service life of 40 years and could potentially lower operational costs. However, the Tejas MkII is still under development, and the gap it would leave in the IAF's fighter capability may require interim solutions such as the Mirage 2000-5.
If the deal with Qatar is finalized, the IAF's Mirage 2000 fleet would increase to 60 aircraft.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

I read somewhere that India wants the entire 114 MRFA to be Make in India only.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

VIDEO: https://x.com/wartrophy_414/status/1850153291109597402 ---> IAF Jaguar firing AIM-132 ASRAAM from it's over wing pylon. ASRAAM integration is part of DARIN-III upgrades.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Avinandan »

^^ We have invested in Jaguars for so long and so many times. My only worry is if we can salvage the Jaguars once they get retired in a decade time.
Hopefully by then we might be able to convert them as drones or at least use the engines and other parts for making new cheaper drones.

The HAL-IAI NRUAV: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI-HAL_NRUAV to do similar conversion for our Chetaks has gone for a toss.
I followed it up for so many years and finally lost all hope on it. :(
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Avinandan wrote: 28 Oct 2024 15:47...

The HAL-IAI NRUAV: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI-HAL_NRUAV to do similar conversion for our Chetaks has gone for a toss.
I followed it up for so many years and finally lost all hope on it. :(
The 'Why make when you can buy' malaise has hampered many a promising program.

Else we would have had success like in the long range missiles, nuke sectors.

Needs a big change in mentality at the top. Make money by manufacturing and selling products rather than by selling yourself for commissions.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sajaym »

I think this shouldn't come as a surprise. If our forces are so DUMB to charter helicopters instead of ordering new helicopters from a company which already them...then anything DUMBER is to be expected from them.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

The forces are somewhat acting like corporates. In a company i worked the VP of Sales would push some expenses of promotions under the head of marketing to show he had cut down on costs in his department. The head of marketing would try and do the same. Everyone knew that the money came from the same common kitty but these guys would strut around showing their 'achievements' and waiting to collect their bonuses...

Looks like the same is being tried here to show saving in CAPEX/OPEX

The good thing is these guys would fit right into a corporate career post retirement from the forces.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sanman »

Flying Through -50°C | Extreme Flight: Indian Air Force

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1852602319688335458 ---> Putting the Mi-26 debate to rest since there has been a lot of talk over the years about them already being upgraded and refurbished in Russia. We met up with Air Chief Marshal AP Singh, Chief of the Air Staff, IAF a few days ago...

We asked: What is the status of the Mi-26 helicopters: we hear they are being refurbished and modernised. Is that correct?

CAS replied: Deliberations are underway with JSC Russian Helicopters on refurbishing of Mi-26 helicopters. JSC RH specialists had invited India to assess local facilities to work out a plan of action.

So, as of now, nothing has been decided.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sajaym »

Rakesh wrote: 02 Nov 2024 22:36 https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1852602319688335458 ---> CAS replied: Deliberations are underway with JSC Russian Helicopters
Thanks for the update!

We should continue to have deliberate deliberations with the Russians to deliberate whether such deliberations can be used to deliberately result in fruitful completion of these deliberations.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

sajaym wrote: 02 Nov 2024 23:38 Thanks for the update!

We should continue to have deliberate deliberations with the Russians to deliberate whether such deliberations can be used to deliberately result in fruitful completion of these deliberations.
:rotfl:

Thank you for making my day.

After reading the above, I am getting a nostalgia for Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by basant »

Ah! This is the Sir Humphrey Appleby's version of Kaveri development.
  • Stage 1: We say Kaveri engine cannot be developed.
  • Stage 2: We say most of it has been developed but we need external aid to fix some problems.
  • Stage 3: Talk to everyone who whispers they might be able to help, but we will not agree to their preconditions.
  • Stage 4: Agree on the preconditions that mandate purchasing foreign fighters with the foreign engines, and consequently delink Kaveri from any relevant programme.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

uhoh :lol:

Russia Offers India its New Tu-160M 'White Swan' Heavy Bomber with Nuclear Capability and 12,000km Range without Refueling
https://defence.in/threads/russia-offer ... ing.11210/
10 Nov 2024
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

Rakesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 06:27 uhoh :lol:

Russia Offers India its New Tu-160M 'White Swan' Heavy Bomber with Nuclear Capability and 12,000km Range without Refueling
https://defence.in/threads/russia-offer ... ing.11210/
10 Nov 2024
Where is Philip-saar when you need him?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SRajesh »

^^
Chai with Natasha is not only Nostalgic but ek doosra hi Nasha!!
But jokes apart, both US and Rus maintain strategic bomber assets Even Chinese have Xian H6 (variant of Tu 16).
I believe we did operate vintage B24's in the past!! is that correct. And we had Canberra as well.
Admiral Sir should not the IAF have a rethink in their strategy??
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

VIDEO: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1853662917037854858 --->

Sastra University funded entity 'Pancha Tejas' successfully testing the first indigenous electric towbarless tow tugs for the IAF.

Universities should look towards such funding & collaborations in defence R&D, plenty of opportunities for students.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

SRajesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 11:13 ^^
Chai with Natasha is not only Nostalgic but ek doosra hi Nasha!!
But jokes apart, both US and Rus maintain strategic bomber assets Even Chinese have Xian H6 (variant of Tu 16).
I believe we did operate vintage B24's in the past!! is that correct. And we had Canberra as well.
Admiral Sir should not the IAF have a rethink in their strategy??
No Sir for me please :)

Tu-160M will be offered and with Trump coming in, expect offer for B-21 Raider to be made as well. Such a sale will not pass US Congress approval, but nevertheless will represent a shift in Indo-US relations. The cost will also be astronomical, which will not pass muster at Air HQ. And then there is the elephant in the room ---> the S-400.

Strategic bombers will force Air HQ to revamp their air power strategy.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SRajesh »

^^Rakesh
probably 2nd week or third week of December of what :
Natasha will entice me with and What the Eagle will drop (instead of the stork despite my likes and dislikes)!! isnt it??
If Mike Waltz is NSA and If rumours of M Rubio or V Ramasway as SoS are true and GarSh@£$% kicked out Depends if Air HQ will revamp their strategy.
One interesting thing did you notice EAM has been quoted today saying that Russia-India trade is expected to cross 100 Billion by 2030!!
Now i dont think Pukraine will go on till then and we will be buying Russian crude!!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

I don't know but this was never really expected that MBDA will allow Meteor across the fleet, I hope orders flow for Astra MK1, Mk2, setting up good production ecosystems leading to faster development of SFDCR and Astra Mk 4 and good CCM
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by drnayar »

SRajesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 22:47 ^^Rakesh
probably 2nd week or third week of December of what :
Natasha will entice me with and What the Eagle will drop (instead of the stork despite my likes and dislikes)!! isnt it??
If Mike Waltz is NSA and If rumours of M Rubio or V Ramasway as SoS are true and GarSh@£$% kicked out Depends if Air HQ will revamp their strategy.
One interesting thing did you notice EAM has been quoted today saying that Russia-India trade is expected to cross 100 Billion by 2030!!
Now i dont think Pukraine will go on till then and we will be buying Russian crude!!
Unless India and Russia do some sort of barter trade ? Or Russia gets out of sanctions !
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by srai »

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Rakesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 21:54
SRajesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 11:13 ^^
Chai with Natasha is not only Nostalgic but ek doosra hi Nasha!!
But jokes apart, both US and Rus maintain strategic bomber assets Even Chinese have Xian H6 (variant of Tu 16).
I believe we did operate vintage B24's in the past!! is that correct. And we had Canberra as well.
Admiral Sir should not the IAF have a rethink in their strategy??
No Sir for me please :)

Tu-160M will be offered and with Trump coming in, expect offer for B-21 Raider to be made as well. Such a sale will not pass US Congress approval, but nevertheless will represent a shift in Indo-US relations. The cost will also be astronomical, which will not pass muster at Air HQ. And then there is the elephant in the room ---> the S-400.

Strategic bombers will force Air HQ to revamp their air power strategy.
Heh. Give em to the Navy. That'll give the PLAN plenty to consider...
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

IIT Kanpur develops revolutionary tech to make aircraft invisible to radar
https://www.business-standard.com/exter ... 035_1.html
27 Nov 2024
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by A Deshmukh »

Rakesh wrote: 02 Dec 2024 21:36 IIT Kanpur develops revolutionary tech to make aircraft invisible to radar
https://www.business-standard.com/exter ... 035_1.html
27 Nov 2024
This is great.
But I dont think such projects or their success should be in public domain.
US used the narrative of UFOs to hide their experimental projects in plain sight.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Haridas »

SRajesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 11:13 ^^
Chai with Natasha is not only Nostalgic but ek doosra hi Nasha!!
But jokes apart, both US and Rus maintain strategic bomber assets Even Chinese have Xian H6 (variant of Tu 16).
I believe we did operate vintage B24's in the past!! is that correct. And we had Canberra as well.
Admiral Sir should not the IAF have a rethink in their strategy??
Canberra was not heavy bomber, but light bomber. Tejas mk1 carries more tonnage than my dear Canberra.

Yes we operated B24, I have personally fiddled with it (guns, bomb rack) after it was retired from AF , left in front of 9 BRD in AFS Pune. 1972.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Haridas »

Mukesh.Kumar wrote: 12 Nov 2024 10:38
Rakesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 06:27 uhoh :lol:

Russia Offers India its New Tu-160M 'White Swan' Heavy Bomber with Nuclear Capability and 12,000km Range without Refueling
https://defence.in/threads/russia-offer ... ing.11210/
10 Nov 2024
Where is Philip-saar when you need him?
One does not need Philip, one needs commonsense to assess it..

Bharat needs this class of weapons. IAF jockies not need it, let Navy wield it as it needs it most.

It's been almost 18 yrs since i met Philips.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by williams »

Jingo heart swells to think of how we can send the Paki's back to stone age as these birds take a round about route and rain missiles at stand off range in Arabian sea, while a distraction is created from the east. However, increasing fighter strength should be our first priority. I am not sure if there is capital budget to acquire and operationalize these birds beyond that priority.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by karan_mc »

Rakesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 06:27 uhoh :lol:

Russia Offers India its New Tu-160M 'White Swan' Heavy Bomber with Nuclear Capability and 12,000km Range without Refueling
https://defence.in/threads/russia-offer ... ing.11210/
10 Nov 2024
Rakesh has problems with IDRW but not with a second copy of the same article by Defence.in :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Nikhil_Naya »

The role of a bomber - a proper heavy bomber - in India, will be limited. Yes, good optics but IMHO a limited heavy option.

Our western neighbour can be tackled by an initial DEAD volley of Brahmos followed by a deep strike with Rudram1/2 + Rampage types from the Shamsher and Rambha's. We have a formidable ground attack system from the Army as well. Plus the PN is bottled up in their ports.

The range of the Rambha is enough to take the battle deep into their territory where required, with a highly manouverable aircraft which can DEFEND itself when required. Then we have the CATS / SWIFT to take it deep when required.

The only place where I feel we can make a difference is on the Bay of Bengal. Also the bomber fleet will have to be based out of the deeper reaches like in Sulur which will make it better defended from what will of course be an attack on our key assets from the dragon.

A heavy supersonic bomber will probably have limited scope and we can spend that money better in other places.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Nikhil_Naya wrote: 09 Dec 2024 18:25 The role of a bomber - a proper heavy bomber - in India, will be limited. Yes, good optics but IMHO a limited heavy option.
...
+1

Mighty khan has used the B1 only after DEAD by other aircraft lead by stealthy F117s, low-flying apaches, SEAD by fighter-bombers accompanied by growlers

The Russians have used the Tu heavies only very sparingly for obvious reasons

Going for the heavies is good when you have the door-kickers and money to spare
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Russian Tu-160M Strategic Bombers For Indian Air Force! A Game-Changer Or White Elephant For India?
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/russian-t ... or-indian/
26 Nov 2024

By Air Marshal Anil Khosla (Retd)
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by drnayar »

Rakesh wrote: 12 Nov 2024 06:27 uhoh :lol:

Russia Offers India its New Tu-160M 'White Swan' Heavy Bomber with Nuclear Capability and 12,000km Range without Refueling
https://defence.in/threads/russia-offer ... ing.11210/
10 Nov 2024
Quoted by Sandeep..so it seems a credible news.. if the IAF wants global power projection, i think it better get more refuellers to start with before any bomber acquisition!.. also in the era of stealth who wants a white elephant, I mean white Swan. , russia is moving to PAK DA , so maybe trying to dispose of these.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

PAK-DA is still very much in development. Will take a decade to achieve full operational capability.

A prototype was supposed to be rolled out last year. Not happened AFAIK.
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