India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[bala]

The other problem with milk in the US is that they sell things like non-fat, 1%, 2% milk which people think is healthy. However, contrary to expectations, they are not. When you remove butter fat from milk then the milk does not taste good at all and the US dairy companies add something else - sugar water and other ingredients. Even regular milk has other additives which are dubious in nature. A1 milk is not good for those who are lactose intolerant, those who are not still have issues. Milk drinking in the US hikes up blood glucose levels.

All cheese making in the US use rennet an enzyme from the stomach of cows. This is a meat product. So all cheeses on pizza are effectively meat based. Even the tomato sauce has beef stew or chicken stew in them. Most products in the US are meat based and getting a vegetarian base is quite hard.

[chetak]

I don’t get it: the oil demand doesn’t go away magically by putting in tariffs. If EU joins in, doesn’t crude just become more expensive for everyone including EU? Indian crude consumption is not insignificant…

What does India do if EU do decide to join in? I wonder if they would have so many exemptions that the impact would be small…

We are just being made examples of. Trump won’t dare tariff China.

Tanaji saar,


EU was surviving on russian crude that was imported and processed by India which then exported petrol, diesel, and ATF to the EU at reasonable prices, until the stooopide euroschumucks decided to rock the boat by pissing India off. They raked up the issue of India buying russian crude and how immoral it was for the war in UKR. They gave India till december to stop the import, all the while they were importing massive amounts of oil and gas from the same russian sources.

They also sanctioned the nyara refinery at vadinar because rosneft had a 49% stake in it

You have to remember that these are all ex colonialists who think that they "know" how to deal with the India that was once colonized by them. They forgot that this was the new India

India has since diverted this stable supply chain to markets in cheen and africa, leaving these smug euroswine literally reeling.

This was not how they had gamed it

Their alternate is expensive trump oil shipped from the you ess

trumpwa will not dare sanction cheen because they already taught him a very bitter lesson by shutting down the REE pipeline.

[chetak]

The other problem with milk in the US is that they sell things like non-fat, 1%, 2% milk which people think is healthy. However, contrary to expectations, they are not. When you remove butter fat from milk then the milk does not taste good at all and the US dairy companies add something else - sugar water and other ingredients. Even regular milk has other additives which are dubious in nature. A1 milk is not good for those who are lactose intolerant, those who are not still have issues. Milk drinking in the US hikes up blood glucose levels.

All cheese making in the US use rennet an enzyme from the stomach of cows. This is a meat product. So all cheeses on pizza are effectively meat based. Even the tomato sauce has beef stew or chicken stew in them. Most products in the US are meat based and getting a vegetarian base is quite hard.

bala saar,


even their "freedom fries" are fried in beef tallow

[hanumadu]

I think the Europeans will eventually join US and put secondary sanctions on us. Isolating Russia did not work. They are unable to isolate China. They will try isolating India next. How many countries will stand with us? Will Russia stand with us? Will China? China stood with Russia because they know they are next. India did not go all out against China for the same reason. Will China return the favour?

What will Brazil, BRICS and other south - south countries do when the US signs trade deals with them and try to isolate India? Will the coalitions India built last or is it every man for himself?

The unspoken thing in the international diplomatic community-- nobody, but nobody is happy with Trump's penchant for tariffs. It is a threat to governments, industries, multinational corporations, and stock markets alike.
...
India will remember who stood with it and who with Trump in these trying years. Other countries know this.

But the west seems to think it's all or nothing. The only way to live in this world is by ruling it or not live at all. The west is as irrational as the pakis.

[skumar]

One of the things to understand about India-US relations and how much US values its relationship with India is that US still does not have an Ambassador for India after 6 months of the TanTrump administration.

It was the same situation during the first couple of years of previous admin, to be fair to Biden, you cannot blame him. His advisors liberally using the Robopen probably forgot as well.

[gakakkad]

I don't buy American cheese. I only eat European made cheese which these days has gotten quite expensive.
Interestingly in most grocery stores American "cheese" like kraft or whatever are in a separate area from imported cheese .

[Tanaji]

I think the next target will be the Indian pharma industry - this will be under guise of India not respecting patents and a demand that India outlaw forced patenting (even though it has been rarely used). Trump has threatened US pharma with pegging them to MFN status unless they reduce prices.

There will be blowback to Indian pharma at some point. It doesn’t matter what percentage of US medicines we supply- US pharma already doesn’t like generics - they will pay off Trump to target Indian pharma

[Tanaji]

I don't buy American cheese. I only eat European made cheese which these days has gotten quite expensive.
Interestingly in most grocery stores American "cheese" like kraft or whatever are in a separate area from imported cheese .

A lot of American cheese would not be legally called cheese in EU

[williams]

I think the next target will be the Indian pharma industry - this will be under guise of India not respecting patents and a demand that India outlaw forced patenting (even though it has been rarely used). Trump has threatened US pharma with pegging them to MFN status unless they reduce prices.

There will be blowback to Indian pharma at some point. It doesn’t matter what percentage of US medicines we supply- US pharma already doesn’t like generics - they will pay off Trump to target Indian pharma

They can target every Indian sector and start an economic war since they think India is vulnerable. As usual we are not prepared for such a war with the countries we thought were our allies, natural partners etc Unfortunately international realpolitik does not work that way and MEA mandarins will sure be puzzled at it right now. It is going to get a bit worse before it gets better. There is going to be a major realignment of world order and we need to prepare our people to get ready for it. The only approach that will work is by a lot of additional internal economic reforms and showing some hard power in eliminating a lot of internal enemies including the colonial judiciary system we inherited. We cannot manage to take on major power players internationally without cleaning our internals IMO.

[S_Madhukar]

Not sure but if Putin offers an economic deal to Trump then expect India to be sacrificed. They will paint the good boy as the bad boy. Because then US can pivot to Asia Pacific knowing it is secure. At what point will India want to add a digital tax on MS etc, if at all.
I think this playbook was always available and it will be ready to be used at the next juncture when the next conflict happens.
The worry is the western cabal was open to us due to the approval of US; they may start showing their true colours now

[williams]

Not sure but if Putin offers an economic deal to Trump then expect India to be sacrificed. They will paint the good boy as the bad boy. Because then US can pivot to Asia Pacific knowing it is secure. At what point will India want to add a digital tax on MS etc, if at all.
I think this playbook was always available and it will be ready to be used at the next juncture when the next conflict happens

Tariffs, Digital tax etc is additional tax on Indian consumers and businesses. It is not economically productive in the long run. This is true especially if you don't have alternative Indian product that will replace it. We need to target products where Indian alternatives are available or incentivize local product development and then strike at the right time. Economic warfare requires a lot of patience and clever moves. The biggest enemy in economic warfare is emotions and ego. We need to carefully remove dependence but not interdependence. We also need to find what is the enemies weakness here. Russians are more dependent on reliable allies like India than anything Trump can offer. They already have the upper hand where quite some Ukrainian territory in their hand. Trump needs some good news before the midterms and there is none to show right now. So IMO he is going to go for a cease fire at any cost which Zelenskyy will not agree. If US stops all support due to this disagreement then it will help Russia grab more territory.

BTW Trump targeting India has nothing to do with Russia, he is just personally irritated with India and he is listening to some of the India haters in American bureaucracy. India also crossed some major red line in selecting some of the Paki targets in Op Sindoor and that provides enough ire for this anti-India stance. I am also sure MAD team would have understood this.

[Vayutuvan]

1) American milk won't sell in India . It's yucky . Chai made from it tastes weird

American milk is from cows. AFAIK, most of milk in India from waterbufellows. Cow's milk is hard to digest. Dahi made from our milk is much tastier than that from cow's milk. Butter and ghee also taste better - a lot better, especially when the butter is made from dahi and ghee made from that butter. Paneer also tastes better in India.

[Vayutuvan]

I grew up in India drinking the standard subcontinental buffalo milk for the most part. I could drink litres of it and never have a problem.

This and curd also made from that milk. It is well known in rural areas (where I grew up) that cow's milk is hard to digest and is not the first preference. I never had goat milk though.

[Vayutuvan]

even their "freedom fries" are fried in beef tallow

chetak garu, McDonalds stopped using beef tallow even in the US itself.

[Vayutuvan]

One of the things to understand about India-US relations and how much US values its relationship with India is that US still does not have an Ambassador for India after 6 months of the TanTrump administration.

A lot of nominations are languishing in the senate as the Dems are conducting a non-cooperation campaign against Trump admin.

[Vayutuvan]

I think the next target will be the Indian pharma industry - this will be under guise of India not respecting patents and a demand that India outlaw forced patenting (even though it has been rarely used).

Does Indian pharma industry make any basic chemicals that have dual use like for drugs and "drugs"? If so, that might be the route US would take - that ban chemicals/pharma that can be repurposed for fentanyl production.

[A_Gupta]

One of the things to understand about India-US relations and how much US values its relationship with India is that US still does not have an Ambassador for India after 6 months of the TanTrump administration.

It was the same situation during the first couple of years of previous admin, to be fair to Biden, you cannot blame him. His advisors liberally using the Robopen probably forgot as well.

Biden came into office Jan 20, 2021. Remember COVID was still winding down. President Biden first nominated Eric Garcetti to be the U.S. ambassador to India in July 2021. However, the nomination faced delays in the Senate due to concerns about how Garcetti handled allegations of sexual harassment against a former aide when he was Mayor of Los Angeles. Biden renominated Garcetti in January 2023 as the new congressional session began. He was finally confirmed by the Senate in March 2023.

[S_Madhukar]

I grew up in India drinking the standard subcontinental buffalo milk for the most part. I could drink litres of it and never have a problem.

This and curd also made from that milk. It is well known in rural areas (where I grew up) that cow's milk is hard to digest and is not the first preference. I never had goat milk though.

That is interesting … in my family in Maha they say buffalo milk has more fat hence difficult to digest for infants and old… I have preferred buffalo milk always like my grandmother but was powerless against mom.

[Rudradev]

One of the things to understand about India-US relations and how much US values its relationship with India is that US still does not have an Ambassador for India after 6 months of the TanTrump administration.

A lot of nominations are languishing in the senate as the Dems are conducting a non-cooperation campaign against Trump admin.

https://afsa.org/appointments-donald-j-trump-2nd-term

Resident Chump has already appointed Ambassadors to 61 countries in his second term (95.1% of these are political appointments, btw, meaning cronies rather than career diplomats ).

Of these, several have already been confirmed by the senate, including ambassadors to Canada, China (the very high-profile former Senator from Georgia-- David Perdue), European Union, France, Holy See, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Mexico, NATO, Panama, Portugal, Turkey (famous Chump crony Tom Barrack), United Kingdom, and Uruguay.

India is not among the 61 countries to which Resident Chump has even nominated an Ambassador.

[Kakkaji]

A lot of nominations are languishing in the senate as the Dems are conducting a non-cooperation campaign against Trump admin.

That is an irrelevant point as Trump has not even nominated anyone for the post yet.

IMHO India is irrelevant in Trump’s worldview.

[Vayutuvan]

That is an irrelevant point as Trump has not even nominated anyone for the post yet.

IMHO India is irrelevant in Trump’s worldview.

I am not talking about ambassadorial nominations. There are other nominations - domestically important ones - that Dems are not confirming.

That said, it is not irrelevance. It is more like India is a well-behaved boy and will wait patiently as long as H1Bs and other visas are being processed on time. What exactly the recent ambassadors have done for India-US relationship?!

[gakakkad]

I have a contrarian view on h1 and Indian government pushing for them . I think they should stop pushing for that because it doesn't do good for India any more . Encouragement should be those jobs remaining back in India .

Many student visas are for good stuff . But a ton (id say more than half ) are for bullsit they could have studied back in India .

Really serves no purpose in GOI pushing for visas . And gives unkil more leverage.

[bala]

The 2 good generals are back at it via PGurus on the relationship that Pak and U have established. Rajiv N says that the backdoor deals on crypto currency are the crux with Trump Jr, Jr2, s-i-l etc own. This is money laundering and funding terrorism plain and simple. The US is being taken for a ride with such hook ups. Marco has said that Ass-I-am Manure is Osama in a suit. Apparently Ass-I-am Manure stabbed err pinned a Nishan-e-whatever to Gen K of the US in Florida visit and then blurted out the N-threat on India. The oil digging and mineral hunts are a waste of time, many 5K holes have been drilled in the past which yielded nada and minerals require some heavy investment to get anything worthwhile. Mean-e-while, the Balochs are making the PA units surrender or they kill them. The rest of the nation is not listening to the PA and Ass-I-am Manure is being despised by many. Tis a matter of time for him to escape the jaws of death.


What made the US suddenly fall back in love with Pakistan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P2q5waLWpQ

[A_Gupta]

The pace of ambassador confirmations by the Senate matches previous Senates. The contentious nominations are for other posts, like for the judiciary. The key issue, as noted above, is that no ambassador nomination for India has been made.

[Tanaji]

I think the next target will be the Indian pharma industry - this will be under guise of India not respecting patents and a demand that India outlaw forced patenting (even though it has been rarely used).

Does Indian pharma industry make any basic chemicals that have dual use like for drugs and "drugs"? If so, that might be the route US would take - that ban chemicals/pharma that can be repurposed for fentanyl production.

It does, India is a big manufacturer of pre-cursor chemicals like ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, and the ones used for making amphetamines. It also is a huge manufacturer of co factor chemicals that facilitate pharmaceutical reactions - larger than precursor chemicals.

The only saving grace is we are far from US.

[Vayutuvan]

The key issue, as noted above, is that no ambassador nomination for India has been made.

The point I am making is that India is not irrelevant. Au contraire. Also all presidents in the past were lazy in nominating ambassador to India while they do it with alacrity for China.

Question is "Why is that"? Why are we taken lightly?

Where are the much vaunted and boosted Indian-American congress critters?

[Amber G.]

Number of foreign born founders who founded billion dollar American companies:

India - 66
Israel - 54
United Kingdon - 27
Canada - 22
China - 21
France - 18
Germany - 15
Russia - 11
Ukraine - 10
Iran - 8
Australia - 7

[Vayutuvan]

Where are the much vaunted and boosted Indian-American congress critters?

They are also part of the Pakistani Caucus. Are they still in that caucus after Pahalgam, op sindoor, tariffs, Trump's bonhomie with Failed Marshallah, and nuclear sabre rattling by that ass manure on the US soil itself?

[Vayutuvan]

Number of foreign born founders who founded billion dollar American companies:

India - 66
Israel - 54
United Kingdon - 27
Canada - 22
China - 21
France - 18
Germany - 15
Russia - 11
Ukraine - 10
Iran - 8
Australia - 7

Per capita normalization is the correct metric for comparison. Then Israel would win by a very handy margin and dwarfs everyone else.

In anycase, these are silly numbers.

[bala]

In anycase, these are silly numbers.

Yes, indeed. The actual VC funders of companies are in Sand Hill Road, Menlo Park and their ownership makes these billion dollarah companies. You have to understand finance before technology, and tech is meaningless. Google, Meta, AWS, Netflix, Apple etc are behemoths due to proper financial measures which funded things at crucial times in its evolution. Meta just bought tech or acquired companies.

[Cain Marko]

US made farm products, esp. Milk are unlikely to cause any trouble for local Indian farmers. Let them in.

[A_Gupta]

S&P Global has upgraded India’s credit rating to BBB from BBB-.

[A_Gupta]

US made farm products, esp. Milk are unlikely to cause any trouble for local Indian farmers. Let them in.

The Indian farmers disagree with that assessment.

The US subsidies for dairy is in the billions to tens of billions of dollars per year.

[Rakesh]

US made farm products, esp. Milk are unlikely to cause any trouble for local Indian farmers. Let them in.

The Indian farmers disagree with that assessment.

The US subsidies for dairy is in the billions to tens of billions of dollars per year.

US origin milk, beef, chicken, pork is among the worst food out there. Genetically Modified and/or laced with pesticides and chemicals. It is hilarious to see Trump (on social media) praising US food. People should seriously be made aware of the danger. The only caveat being is that is if the food is certified organic or contains Non-GMO ingredients.

I pity the people in the US who are consuming this garbage disguised as food. I pity the nations that are being forced to import US food. Good on the Modi Govt to not cave in to US sourced food.

The US should export their food to Pakistan. Apt for their citizenry who suffer from malnutrition and stunted brain development.

[Vayutuvan]

The US should export their food to Pakistan. Apt for their citizenry who suffer from malnutrition and stunted brain development.

I say they should export all pork bellies and sausages which they produce in excess.

[A_Gupta]

Other countries will be providing the US with a sovereign wealth fund:

https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1955 ... o-spend%2F

What Bessent is saying is that the US will now treat US allies' wealth as an American "sovereign wealth fund" (his words), "directing" them, "largely at the [US] president's discretion", how to use their money in order to build American factories and reshore American industries.

Even the Fox News host can't believe it, calling it "offshore appropriation", another word for theft.

That's exactly what it is: straight up unabashed colonial plunder.

That's the pattern we see emerge: unable to extract wealth or win wars against an increasingly strong Global South, the US has turned inward to feast on its own "allies" - who can't resist precisely because they depend on their exploiter for military "protection". They're as defenseless against American wealth extraction as any 19th-century colony was against its colonial "protector."

[chanakyaa]

Few questions come to mind with respect to the above post about Bessent’s comments.

1. Assuming the intent is to really influence allies’ wealth at the command of US president, why would US Treasury secretary make such public, colonial-ish comments to humiliate the allies (they are lap dogs anyways, but I’m talking at public perception), considering that the majority of the allies have deep colonial past? Or is it real life playing out of dynamics summarized by Kissinger “ It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”

2. Considering the allies may react in a negative way, who or what is the ultimate target (dollar, upend global trade)?

[A_Gupta]

This is Trump and his crew and their specific character defects. And it is the character defects of all the people who voted to put him in power. Trump thinks he is God-King, and the world must fall in line to his wishes. So far India has refused to do so, and so it will be the target of his ever increasing fury. (China has refused to do so as well, but Trump is scared of them. I think Trump sees Modi and India as no more than sidekicks.)

There is no strategic partnership for India with the US possible for the next few decades; everything will be transactional. I know some people say that "just wait three and a half years and then we can put this behind us". No, we can't. Trump is merely one particular virulent manifestation of a sickness in a whole lot of Americans' psyche. The most charitable interpretation of the disease is that this is all a reaction to the browning of America.

Lest anyone be confused about it - the American Constitution is not in effect. The forms are all there (analogous to Pakistan being a Parliamentary democracy in form), but the substance is gone. It is like the proverbial chicken that keeps running around after its head is cut off, not knowing that it is already dead.

[chetak]

S&P Global has upgraded India’s credit rating to BBB from BBB-.

A_Gupta ji, we should get our own rating agency

This marks the country's first sovereign upgrade by S&P in 18 years, the previous one being in 2007 when India was elevated to investment grade at BBB-.

In May 2024, the agency revised its outlook on India from 'Stable' to 'Positive'

and trumpwa’s ‘Indian economy dead’ jibe falls flat

[williams]

Few questions come to mind with respect to the above post about Bessent’s comments.

1. Assuming the intent is to really influence allies’ wealth at the command of US president, why would US Treasury secretary make such public, colonial-ish comments to humiliate the allies (they are lap dogs anyways, but I’m talking at public perception), considering that the majority of the allies have deep colonial past? Or is it real life playing out of dynamics summarized by Kissinger “ It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”

2. Considering the allies may react in a negative way, who or what is the ultimate target (dollar, upend global trade)?

There are multiple wheels inside wheels at play here. Generally speaking India has a lot of potential to become a dominant power but is also quite vulnerable. Pakis were kept alive as an India containment policy by the Brits and that got transferred over to the the Americans as the Brits declined and that policy has never changed. Post cold war and after the nuke tests, Americans realized their sanctions did not do much to slow down India's ascent. Some of the American bureaucrats wanted to keep India on their camp while others were interested in sinister CRE (cap, reduce and eliminate India's nukes). Our babus decided to engage with the US and get rid of the sanctions that was blocking a lot of tech imports from the US. So we started down the path of an ambiguous relationship and signed on some 3 and 4 letter agreements reluctantly. Come Modi government we continued to pile on this relationship and people started thinking that this ambiguous relationship is strategic partnership and some how Americans are thinking India as a pivot against the raise of China. Now comes Op sindoor and India is in the verge of dissolving the containment wedge called Pakistan. Pakistan ran to the old American bureaucrats and entrenched policy mandarins in the State dept and CIA. They in turn ran to Trump. Trump sent JD Vance who just finished touring India to threaten Modi with Paki attack. Modi simply refused to be threatened and Paki goose got cooked May 10th night.

Trump now joined the India containment camp and Pakis ran back to their old Uncle, abandoning their friend China whose weapons fizzled so badly and exposed the underbelly of the Pakis. Pakis are now offering many things to sweeten their relationship with the old Uncle and Trump who likes instant gratification is taking it and listening to India containment bureaucrats now. This is what has happened so far and the one thing we don't know is how Modi administration is going to respond. There will be deep thinking that is happening right now and we will need to wait to see what India's approach will be.