Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Manish_P
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Good to see Squadron numbers being mentioned for UCAV/UAVs, even if it is said to be from unnamed 'Defense sources' :mrgreen:

Indian Air Force Plans 20 Squadrons of Unmanned Stealth Jets by 2040
After the success of Operation Sindoor, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is preparing a major transformation in aerial warfare strategy. Defense sources have revealed that by 2040, the IAF aims to induct 20 squadrons of unmanned stealth aircraft, numbering between 300 and 400 jets.

This project is separate from the IAF’s target of 42 squadrons of manned fighters and is seen as a crucial step towards gaining a technological edge in future conflicts.

The planned fleet will range from 1-ton to 13-ton aircraft and will be divided into three categories:

Collaborative Combat Aircraft (CCA):

Small-sized jets designed to fly alongside manned fighters such as Su-30MKI, Rafale, Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. Their primary role will be to suppress enemy air defenses, conduct reconnaissance, and strike targets. The IAF plans to raise 10–12 squadrons of these aircraft.

Tactical Stealth Fighter-Bombers:

Medium-weight jets (5–10 tonnes) capable of precision strikes in enemy territory. Equipped with weapons like the Rudram missile and BrahMos-II, their design will be similar to the American XQ-58 Valkyrie.

Unmanned Stealth Fighters:

The heaviest category, weighing 10–13 tonnes. DRDO’s Ghatak UCAV is an example, featuring a 4-ton payload, supercruise capability, and AI-driven autonomy for independent missions and leadership over other aircraft.

According to officials, this mixed fleet will give India operational flexibility across scenarios—from limited border clashes to a full-scale two-front war.
This jingo would have liked them to add to this project/vision, squadron numbers for Recce/ISR UAVs as well.

(And thousands of squadrons of one-way kamikaze drones for and under the command of the Indian Army :twisted: )
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by vonkabra »

Rakesh wrote: 12 Aug 2025 23:23 As lesson from Op Sindoor, Indian Air Force to focus on inducting long-range missiles
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 812202123/
12 Aug 2025
It's good that the IAF is looking at long range missiles, but I'm a bit surprised that the list does not include any long range AAMs. Till such time as the Astra Mk2/3 enter service, we still seem to be facing a range gap. Nobody even seems to be clear whether the Meteor has been integrated with our Rafales, whether it has a 2-way data link etc. and we still don't have enough Rafales to begin with. Frankly the only imported missile I would like to see as an emergency purchase would be the R-37M for our Su-30s. Sure, it may take some time for the integration, but pretty sure it will happen much faster than the alternatives.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Haridas wrote: 18 Aug 2025 17:53
Setting the record straight :
1. SAAW was inducted in good quantity early into confrontation in Tibet against Cheen. So has been in reasonable qty inventory since then.

2. Op Sindoor has set the stage for long range light payload precision attack ( Ookrain war et el) in greater quantity. Hence emergency funds for critical immediate buildup. DRDO just staking it's market share and making aware to fauj that we are ready with standard and advanced EO version of SAAW.
Haridas Ji: would love to believe this but I have not seen a single report of SAAW orders or induction. And if they were indeed inducted, taking out PAF airbases during Op Sindoor would have been right up their alley

I am sure there were plenty of targets within the 90 - 100 Km SAAW range that could have been safely launched by our aircraft

I hope they don't go around demanding that they won't induct anything < 250 Km range due to enemy AD/long-range AAMs

And since the IAF wants to induct long-range standoff missiles, we should all be seeing large orders for the Rudram series. Lets see if those materialize
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Post-Op Sindoor, proposal to enhance IAF’s combat strength on cards
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india ... -on-cards/
22 Sept 2025
srin
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by srin »

As far as unmanned stealth aircraft is concerned, I have a lot of hopes from HAL CATS warrior program. If only they can fit a good turbofan and make it supersonic…
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by vonkabra »

Nothing very new in it, but around 10 min into the video he gives some interesting insights into the S-400s forward deployment, and how the systems high mobility (combined with tracking movements of hostile satellites), helped avoid any counterstrikes.

IAF Chief AP Singh drops truth bomb on Op Sindoor, says, 'destroyed enemy bases, radars, aircraft'

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Hriday »

From Shiv, ex-BRF.
https://x.com/shiv_cybersurg/status/197 ... xrNsA&s=19
...
The reason for 4000 meter runways is that the Chinese know that those lengths are required for safety. One crater in the middle will stop all flying. And Tibet runways are far apart, in an emergency planes will not necessarily find a nearby runway to land
May be that is why govt and IAF is not that worried about the Chinese mass production of 5th generation fighter jets. It also explains why China hadn't done any revenge attack for the Galvan casualties despite possessing a super power like military.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Rumor has it that the iaf has sent a new assessment to the CCS for a.30% increase to it's total squadron strength requirement of 42. New number is 57sqds.

This increase is reflective of the larger that posed by the double front of China and Pakistan (I'm guessing they are also gaming the West here)
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/19 ... 5619767386 ---> This is how DARIN upgrades step in. #Jaguars #IAF

Image
Vayutuvan
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Vayutuvan »

Why the name Indra has "political overtones"? Hindutva/Vedic/Brahmanism?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Vayutuvan wrote: 26 Sep 2025 22:41 Why the name Indra has "political overtones"? Hindutva/Vedic/Brahmanism?
The Jaguar was inducted into the IAF on 27 July 1979. It was over 2.4 years since the end of the emergency in India, imposed by Indira Gandhi. Air Chief Marshal Dilbagh Singh was profoundly astute in changing the name from Indra to Darin, as Indra would have the overtones of Indira Gandhi. Thus the words were re-arranged to Darin. The Armed Forces are apolitical and just post the emergency, it was doubly important to maintain that impression. Political leanings are not permitted.

Don't forget the famous Congress slogan ---> Indira is India and India is Indira. 100% Cringe, but that what it is like in the Congress Party.

Incidentally, the Jaguar was inducted into the IAF a day before the end of the Moraji Desai Govt. It was subsequently followed by the Charan Singh Govt who ruled till 14 Jan 1980.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VKumar »

DARIN is anagram of INDRA
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by uddu »

Tejas escorted Mig-21 in flypast

Rakesh
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

India looks to procure more S-400/S-500 air defence systems from Russia
https://theprint.in/defence/india-looks ... a/2753103/
29 Sept 2025
The 2018 contract with Russia for 5 S-400 systems had a follow-on clause for 5 more. S-400 was described as a 'game-changer' for shooting down 5 Pakistan fighter jets during Op Sindoor.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by RCase »

Rakesh wrote: 26 Sep 2025 23:14
Vayutuvan wrote: 26 Sep 2025 22:41 Why the name Indra has "political overtones"? Hindutva/Vedic/Brahmanism?
The Jaguar was inducted into the IAF on 27 July 1979. It was over 2.4 years since the end of the emergency in India, imposed by Indira Gandhi. Air Chief Marshal Dilbagh Singh was profoundly astute in changing the name from Indra to Darin, as Indra would have the overtones of Indira Gandhi. Thus the words were re-arranged to Darin. The Armed Forces are apolitical and just post the emergency, it was doubly important to maintain that impression. Political leanings are not permitted.

Don't forget the famous Congress slogan ---> Indira is India and India is Indira. 100% Cringe, but that what it is like in the Congress Party.

Incidentally, the Jaguar was inducted into the IAF a day before the end of the Moraji Desai Govt. It was subsequently followed by the Charan Singh Govt who ruled till 14 Jan 1980.
My dad headed the jaguar production program from MoD from its inception in 1980! He also served on the COI for one of the earliest crashes of a Jaguar in 82 that rammed into a hill in Sirsa.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by konaseema »

Vayutuvan wrote: 26 Sep 2025 22:41 Why the name Indra has "political overtones"? Hindutva/Vedic/Brahmanism?
Indra by itself is Indian and should be apolitical. Almost all equipment used by Indian Armed Forces derive their names from Vedas / Upanishads / Sanskrit. If that is Hindutva or Brahmanism, then so be it. Many of us may have forgotten our Virasat but not our Armed / Security Forces. Hence all our security forces have their motto in Sanskrit.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Khalsa »

the name Indra and not naming it was to ensure it bore no linkages to the Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.
The armed forces must remain bipartisan, no clapping during political speeches etc and all that stuff goes with it.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by RCase »

Rakesh wrote: 26 Sep 2025 07:19 https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/19 ... 5619767386 ---> This is how DARIN upgrades step in. #Jaguars #IAF
The jaguar that crashed in 1982 (rammed into a hill in Sirsa at high speed) underestimated the height of the hill by less than 10 ft. The IAF on its maps and nav systems had the wrong height. The pilot was on his last joy ride sortie (not an official sortie) as he was transferred to another base. It was a pitch dark night and he was doing a low terrain flight thinking he had sufficient clearance between the aircraft and the hill top. I wonder how much of a culprit the NAV system was in that case. The hill was re-surveyed and all the maps and NAV systems had to be updated after that incident with the correct altitude.
Manish_P
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

^ :shock: Less than 10 feet seems very very low. That's less than tree top height. Even less than a truck height. The height of the jaguar itself is around 16 feet.

Extremely dangerous even for a slow moving helicopter let alone a fast attack jet.

I thought the lower ceiling would be set a bit higher for safety margin. Especially on non-ops flying.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by pravula »

Manish_P wrote: 02 Oct 2025 11:14 ^ :shock: Less than 10 feet seems very very low. That's less than tree top height. Even less than a truck height. The height of the jaguar itself is around 16 feet.

Extremely dangerous even for a slow moving helicopter let alone a fast attack jet.

I thought the lower ceiling would be set a bit higher for safety margin. Especially on non-ops flying.
Jags were designed for such flight profiles. An old one, but there are a lot more videos like this…

Manish_P
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

pravula wrote: 02 Oct 2025 11:24 ...
Jags were designed for such flight profiles. An old one, but there are a lot more videos like this…
..
Am aware and have seen the many videos.

Didn't expect it to be less than the height of the bird itself, especially for a joyride.

Incidentally this is one of the lowest i have seen them go. But this is on a very flat land in Oman and on approach to a runway

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VKumar »

I thought Oman used to have Hawks.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by uddu »

Crossposting from Modi 3.0
Pakistani Helicopter for India by TATA
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by bala »

So much for the imported Apache for IAF

https://x.com/AVE_603/status/1973376260102312073 ---> IAF recently has been having a lot of emergency landings with Apaches. In 2025, June alone 2 mishaps happened on 6th and 13th. In 2024, an airframe was lost in Ladakh.

Image

https://x.com/hardikjoshi101/status/1973642483214196762 ---> Summed Up

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

bala wrote: 02 Oct 2025 18:37 So much for the imported Apache for IAF

https://x.com/AVE_603/status/1973376260102312073 ---> IAF recently has been having a lot of emergency landings with Apaches. In 2025, June alone 2 mishaps happened on 6th and 13th. In 2024, an airframe was lost in Ladakh.
https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/19 ... 8051380484 ---> Apache be like - I can't breathe.

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Manish_P
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Rakesh wrote: 02 Oct 2025 19:08
bala wrote: 02 Oct 2025 18:37 So much for the imported Apache for IAF

https://x.com/AVE_603/status/1973376260102312073 ---> IAF recently has been having a lot of emergency landings with Apaches. In 2025, June alone 2 mishaps happened on 6th and 13th. In 2024, an airframe was lost in Ladakh.
....
Didn't we test the birds before buying them?

Even if we didn't surely the aircraft come with stringent and clear manuals specifying never exceed parameters.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Manish_P wrote: 02 Oct 2025 19:40 Didn't we test the birds before buying them?

Even if we didn't surely the aircraft come with stringent and clear manuals specifying never exceed parameters.
Sir, please reserve these questions only for desi maal.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by RCase »

Manish_P wrote: 02 Oct 2025 11:14 ^ :shock: Less than 10 feet seems very very low. That's less than tree top height. Even less than a truck height. The height of the jaguar itself is around 16 feet.

Extremely dangerous even for a slow moving helicopter let alone a fast attack jet.

I thought the lower ceiling would be set a bit higher for safety margin. Especially on non-ops flying.
10 ft from the top of the peak and not the ground! He thought he had sufficient clearance between the aircraft and the peak.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

RCase wrote: 02 Oct 2025 20:52 ...
10 ft from the top of the peak and not the ground! He thought he had sufficient clearance between the aircraft and the peak.
I know that the measurements would always be from the top of the peak sir. Else planes will fly into Everest fairly regularly. Anyway going OT.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Rakesh wrote: 02 Oct 2025 19:45
Manish_P wrote: 02 Oct 2025 19:40 Didn't we test the birds before buying them?

Even if we didn't surely the aircraft come with stringent and clear manuals specifying never exceed parameters.
Sir, please reserve these questions only for desi maal.
I know the sentiment Admiral sir but here am being quite serious and genuinely curious.

Training would have happened right. So in training these limiting parameters would be covered...

These are no ordinary aircraft and the terrain is extra-ordinary to say the least
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Manish_P wrote: 02 Oct 2025 21:49 I know the sentiment Admiral sir but here am being quite serious and genuinely curious.

Training would have happened right. So in training these limiting parameters would be covered...

These are no ordinary aircraft and the terrain is extra-ordinary to say the least
Training "should" have happened is the more correct term. It is clear that such a scenario was not factored in.

If this helicopter was acquired - despite being aware of its limitations in Ladakh - then what does that illustrate?

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
- Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

bala wrote: 02 Oct 2025 18:37 So much for the imported Apache for IAF

https://x.com/AVE_603/status/1973376260102312073 ---> IAF recently has been having a lot of emergency landings with Apaches. In 2025, June alone 2 mishaps happened on 6th and 13th. In 2024, an airframe was lost in Ladakh.
https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/19 ... 4204530996 ---> Apache Incidents:

1) 17 April 2020, precautionary landing at Hoshiarpur, Punjab
2) 29 May 2023, Precautionary landing at Bhind, Madhya Pradesh
3) 03 April 2024, hard landing at Ladakh
4) 06 June 2025, precautionary landing at Saharanpur, Uttar Pradesh
5) 13th June 2025, precautionary landing at Pathankot, Punjab

Corresponding serial numbers of the airframes in question...

https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/19 ... 0034346248 --->

1) ZV-4813
2) ZV-4805
3) ----------
4) ZV-4808
5) ----------
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cybaru »

Rakesh wrote: 02 Oct 2025 19:08
bala wrote: 02 Oct 2025 18:37 So much for the imported Apache for IAF

https://x.com/AVE_603/status/1973376260102312073 ---> IAF recently has been having a lot of emergency landings with Apaches. In 2025, June alone 2 mishaps happened on 6th and 13th. In 2024, an airframe was lost in Ladakh.
https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/19 ... 8051380484 ---> Apache be like - I can't breathe.


Oh Boy! oooof - some still crave foreign crap!
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