Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion

[Manish_P]

...
They have also tried to block sale of F16s and all sort of weapons as well

So have we.

Trying to stop the enemy from acquiring weapons, any weapons which can be used against you, is part of the fight.

[Rakesh]

Taiwan is getting all her F-16s upgraded to the Block 70 standard and acquiring new build variants as well. Long delays due to supply chain issues.

[Manish_Sharma]

Or are we negotiating hard with GE and US at the same time?

Better to negotiate for 36-54 f35 than mortgage your entire future and mainstay.

Move over AMCA, it will take longer(of course we can do it but it will take LONGER), the world over trend is to MAKE STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP FOR NEXT GENERATION PLATFORMS (FCAS of france??) :

https://x.com/manojzxc/status/2013971175517655246?s=20
Here starts IAF starting MRFA 2.0 for FCAS :
ACM is indirectly demanding 100 B$ to join France FCAS program..what a disastrous person he is.
All his big talk about pvt industry is to establish an assembly line to assemble Rafale and, later use the assembly line for FCAS
https://x.com/manojzxc/status/2013975895422169461?s=20
French-Germany FCAS project is falling apart,since French refused to give any substantive work share to Germany,while using Germany as a milk cow to fund the FCAS program.
Now it's becoming clear y this ACM delayed AMCA wit pvt consortium idea &

WHILE other twitter poster interprets it as a move to Su-57 not french fcas:

https://x.com/Neetivaan/status/2013956560641552787?s=20
ACM AP Singh almost hints that Rafale will be inevitable.

While, he also says to catch up with the next generation (5th gen most probably) we need to join hands with someone.

Man, if we go with Su-57, this will be the biggest L for us because we already moved on from FGFA.

although looking at IAF's penchant for french platforms probably its going to be FCAS of france.

90 F4 Rafale + 24 F5 Rafale (with Neuron UCAVs??)
& then FCAS to follow...

so future probably is
GoI decided to add 97 Tejas Mk1A to previous order of 83 Tejas..
both current air chief A.P. Singh & former air chief Bhaduria openly came in media REQUESTING GoI to move the order of these 97 Tejas Mk1A orders to Tejas Mk2 instead (which will have 1st flight sometime 2027), although a month before air chief A.P. Singh was demanding 'give me 40 to 50 fighter jets every year..we need them urgently' but the moment GoI turns decisive 'jaldi kya hai? postpone these 97 order to later (2032) Tejas Mk2'

what is preventing future air force leadership to repeat same for Tejas Mk2 REQUESTING GoI to move those orders to AMCA instead (as internal payload carrying jets will be more common by then)?

I remember when GoI ordered 165 LCH, a few articles appeared in media about how 'age of COMBAT HELICOPTERs is over', but complete silence when apaches ordered & same is true for most swadeshi platforms

Google ai answer on:

is approval of ccs pending since november 2025 with regard to rspa ghatak ucav?

As of January 2026, the
Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approval for the full-scale development and prototype funding of the RSPA Ghatak UCAV remains pending.
Current status and key factors regarding the approval include:

Financial Sanction Awaited: The program is currently awaiting a final sanction of approximately ₹5,000 crore from the government to transition into the prototype assembly and flight testing phases.
Engine-linked Approval: A significant procedural hurdle for CCS clearance is the certification of the indigenous Dry Kaveri engine. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has set a firm deadline of 2026 for this certification. Experts indicate that financial commitment from the CCS is interlinked with the successful validation of this engine.
Ongoing Progress: Despite the pending funding, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) have moved beyond conceptual design. They are proactively developing an engineering model to validate critical systems and have already frozen the configuration.
Revised Timelines: Due to the delays in funding and government clearance, the rollout of the first full-scale prototype is now anticipated by 2028-2029, with maiden flight testing projected for late 2030 or 2031.

seems Rafale acquision is just the stepping stone, in depth we're moving towards Rafale-Neuron-FCAS mfrg

while media beats drums on every AoN (which are later buried) as if swadeshi is acquired.

[Kartik]

The Chinese are not stupid to underestimate the Rafale. In fact they have been blocking Taiwan's purchase of Rafale as Eric Trappier recently alluded to. It's only Indians who have a fetish for blaming the IAF for wanting a jet whose capabilities they fully know and appreciate.

They have also tried to block sale of F16s and all sort of weapons as well

F-16 sales went ahead. 66 F-16 Block 70 & 139 F-16 A/B being upgraded to F-16V standard. But Rafale is a more capable fighter and China will put immense political pressure on France to not proceed with it.

[Kartik]

Tejas Mk2 hasn't even seen a prototype rollout yet and you're acting like it's on the verge of entering production. There's a full phase of ground testing, flight testing, weapons testing, climate testing, etc. for it to go through with thousands of test points and well over 1500-1600 test flights at the very minimum to get it ready for induction.

This announcement has nothing to do with the Tejas Mk2. It will be ordered when it's time comes. Right now the focus has to be on Rafale otherwise the IAF will be reduced to even lower than 29 squadrons when the oldest Jags start retiring.

Deliveries of Rafale will happen from 2030 onward only while MK2 will enter by 2029.

You really believe that Tejas Mk2 will "enter service" by 2029?? Even HAL isn't parading such a ridiculous date.

We would be lucky if it manages it's first flight in 2026 given HAL's track record. With thousands of test points the test flight program will last 4-5 years, on a very optimistic note. Nearly every system is upgraded over the Tejas Mk1A. From new software, for e.g. for sensor fusion, which is just one functionality, to upgraded FCS to cater to the new control surfaces to new ECS, new braking systems, new landing gear, new radar, new IRST, LAD, new pylons, you name it. I'm very hopeful that the flight test experience with Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A will lead to optimized flight testing, but even then it's going to take at the very least 1600-1800 flights. That too when the 5 prototypes are going to be added at the rate of 1 per 6 months or so.

Even if concurrent production begins, you won't see Tejas Mk2 enter squadron service anytime before 2033-34. Any earlier date given is just not going to happen.

[pravula]

Exactly. Has anyone seen a GSQR for Mk2? IAF will demand underwater torpedo firing and moon base testing. What will HAL do then?

[BenG]

Well, this forum turned pro Rafale fairly quickly. I understand HAL has royally screwed up Tejas mk1a. But that is no reason to blow shit load of money on imports again. I would say if necessary buy 36+1 more Rafale off the shelf and 40 more super Su-30 mki capable of firing brahmos mk2/Tarus etc. Here is a summary of a discussion with an AI about Su-30 mki TOT vs proposed Rafale production deal.

The Su-30MKI programme was decisively better for India than the Rafale / MRFA proposal.

Below is a structured, no-nonsense comparison focused only on sovereignty and industrial depth.

Moderator Note: Tweet has been removed due to non-compliance of forum rules (i.e. not providing a link).

[Sumeet]

For a fighter jet we primarily need:

1. Airframe & Aerodynamics & RF/IR signature optimization
2. Flight control system
3. Engine and Engine Control system
4. Radar
5. Mission Software (including Multi sensor data fusion software, AI/ML based solutions for health monitoring, diagnostics, combat strategies)
6. New Computers — FADEC, Digital Flight Control Computers, Mission Computer, Display Processor, Digital Signal Processors
7. Rest of avionics -- Glass cockpit, HMDS, IRST, EoT, EW Suite, CNI systems
8. Weapons -- Brahmos A, ASRAAM, Astra Mk2, Astra SFDR, Meteor NG, SPICE 1K/2K, Garuthma, SAAW, Gaurav & Rudram

Where we stand today:

1, 2 ----> LCA, Mk2 & AMCA is helping us indigenize better. We don't need any help here. R&D should focus on stealth optimizations across spectrums.
3 ---> Our biggest archilles heel till date. Indo-French (Safran) or Indo-UK (Rolls Royce) Joint Venture should help us address this in ~ 7-10 years
4 ---> Ensure both DRDO & private companies like Data Patterns get enough funding to develop next gen Radars. If any help is required consult Israelis.
5 ---> We need to deliver on Tejas Mk2 & Super Sukhoi projects to develop state of the art skills in this area for AMCA and any 6th gen projects. We should be able to do this ourselves.
6 ---> We should be able to do this ourselves totally. Funding should be made available non stop for public and private companies.
7 ---> We can seek selective collaboration with Israel and then over time indigenize to 100%. Again Mk2 & Super Sukhoi programs will provide foundation in these aspects.
8 ---> Mostly we are self sufficient here and we should continue investing in next gen weapons on our own.

More Rafale will help us:
1) Catch up in squadron strength & remaining relevant in our threat scenarios
2) Keep state of the art integrated weapon system in IAF
3) High operational availability

Super Sukhoi and Tejas Mk2:
1) Catch up in squadron strength & keeping them all relevant in our threat scenarios
2) Best place to integrate new indigenous weapons
3) Critical R&D and Engineering Foundation to build future 5th gen and 6th gen fighters


This is why we need all of these three projects. Money shouldn't be an issue -- Govt should understand to be respected you must also be feared. So open up purses without any petty cheap tricks or taking pride in we did something is less than a hollywood movie project.

Whatever mistakes happened in past don't matter now. That time is gone. We should be future focussed.

[uddu]

Indian weapons on Rafale | Astra, Rudram & SAAW | A Perfect Marriage

[BenG]

If we rejected Gripen, then we should say no to 114 Rafale as well. If IAF needs 114 Rafale now, they will need 36 Su-57 before the ink on 114 rafale deal dries or they will open another competition piting GCAP, SU-57 and FCAS for 140 odd fighters again to replace Su-30 and we will repeat this tamasha again and again.

Brazil’s deal with Saab for Gripen E/F is widely considered the gold standard for sovereignty within Western systems.

Moderator Note: Tweet has been removed due to non-compliance of forum rules (i.e. not providing a link).

[Rakesh]

If we rejected Gripen, then we should say no to 114 Rafale as well. If IAF needs 114 Rafale now, they will need 36 Su-57 before the ink on 114 rafale deal dries or they will open another competition piting GCAP, SU-57 and FCAS for 140 odd fighters again to replace Su-30 and we will repeat this tamasha again and again.

Brazil’s deal with Saab for Gripen E/F is widely considered the gold standard for sovereignty within Western systems.

Can you please provide the link for the Twitter post? Thank You for your co-operation in this matter.

One of the key takeaways from the 114 MRFA acquisition is a fighter with a non-American engine. The Gripen will not work due to the F414G turbofan built by GE. This is to spread the risk, rather than having your all your future fleet (Tejas Mk1A, Tejas Mk2 + 114 MRFA) powered by US-built turbofans. That is 180 Tejas Mk1A + 200 (potentially) Tejas Mk2 + 114 MRFAs = 494 aircraft. That is a significant chunk of airpower. So spread the risk.

If risk was not a concern, then instead of Gripen E/F, the F-15EX rules the roost among all the MRFA contestants and will prevail even over the Rafale. That is a beast, but she is American.

P.S. And then there is the first AMCA Mk1A squadrons (40 aircraft @ minimum) which was also supposed to have F414-INS6 turbofans. Although the last I heard the plan was changed to have only the TD and PV vehicles to have the F414-INS6 turbofans and production examples will all have the indigenious turbofan from the JV between GTRE and the chosen foreign engine OEM.

[uddu]

Gripen is full of imported components from all over the world. Gripen should not be talked about by a country like India. Today We are comparing Tejas Mk2 and Rafale. You can talk about Poland and Russia in Kerala, but not Gripen in BR.

Gripen still Relies on U.S. Engine But Sweden Offers it to Portugal as F-35 Alternative
https://en.defence-ua.com/news/gripen_s ... 14155.html
12 April 2025

https://x.com/arunpudur/status/1994027706011308222?s=20
@arunpudur
Made in Sweden Gripen Vs Made in India Tejas. Be proud of how Atma Nirbhar we have become since 2014.

[Rakesh]

@arunpudur
Made in Sweden Gripen Vs Made in India Tejas. Be proud of how Atma Nirbhar we have become since 2014.

Please provide link to tweet. Thank You for your co-operation in this matter.

[BenG]

A 2nd factor involves shared integration source codes, allowing Brazil’s growing arms industry to quickly add the weapons they’re developing for use by the FAB – or indeed, for any Gripen customer. Brazilian Gripens offered immediate integration with the cooperative A-Darter air-air missile that Brazil is developing with fellow Gripen customer South Africa, and deploying on its own modernized A-1M AMX fighters. Mectron’s MAR-1 anti-radiation missile is another example that will debut with Brazil’s Gripen NGs.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/br ... ram-04179/

[uddu]

A 2nd factor involves shared integration source codes, allowing Brazil’s growing arms industry to quickly add the weapons they’re developing for use by the FAB – or indeed, for any Gripen customer. Brazilian Gripens offered immediate integration with the cooperative A-Darter air-air missile that Brazil is developing with fellow Gripen customer South Africa, and deploying on its own modernized A-1M AMX fighters. Mectron’s MAR-1 anti-radiation missile is another example that will debut with Brazil’s Gripen NGs.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/br ... hatgpt.com

Gripen is our MK1A level fighter. It's outdated by our requirements. Also the number of components including the engines that we will be struck with makes it unsuited for our needs. We have crossed the Gripen time long back. Now it's the Rafale/Su-57 that can compete with MK2/AMCA. It may be good fighter for others who don't' have anything of their own, not for us.

[Rakesh]

And as the F-35 program has proved, not a single foreign F-35 can take to the sky without sustainment from Unkil's MIC. This is the *INTENDED* meaning of interoperability...albeit American style.

The Finnish president refers to F-18s and not F-35s. That makes it even worse!

VIDEO: https://x.com/mog_russEN/status/2014005 ... 10070?s=20 ---> JUST IN: Finnish President Alexander Stubb: "We can’t even use our F-35 fighter jets without America’s permission."

[Rakesh]

A 2nd factor involves shared integration source codes, allowing Brazil’s growing arms industry to quickly add the weapons they’re developing for use by the FAB – or indeed, for any Gripen customer. Brazilian Gripens offered immediate integration with the cooperative A-Darter air-air missile that Brazil is developing with fellow Gripen customer South Africa, and deploying on its own modernized A-1M AMX fighters. Mectron’s MAR-1 anti-radiation missile is another example that will debut with Brazil’s Gripen NGs.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/br ... ram-04179/

A moot point due to the F414G turbofan in the Gripen E/F.

[BenG]

Moot point is a nation desperate to import 114 fighters to maintain numerical parity with pakistan at a cost unimaginable couple of years back. Yet India chest thumps that it has mastered every aspect of aviation technology except the engine. The fact is India still sucks in development, manufacturing and assembly scaling up. But sweden does not. Tejas mk1a needs more time let alone mk2 and AMCA. Its would have been prudent to just keep producing Su-30 mki with increased level of Engine indegenisation till AMCA was reaady. Its not like the americans can sanction russian engines and ground IAF. But buying the rafale is like draining our aerospace capital to french factories voluntarily which has a stated policy of not sharing industrial know-how.

[Rakesh]

Moot point is a nation desperate to import 114 fighters to maintain numerical parity with pakistan at a cost unimaginable couple of years back. Yet India chest thumps that it has mastered every aspect of aviation technology except the engine. The fact is India still sucks in development, manufacturing and assembly scaling up. But sweden does not. Tejas mk1a needs more time let alone mk2 and AMCA. Its would have been prudent to just keep producing Su-30 mki with increased level of Engine indegenisation till AMCA was reaady. Its not like the americans can sanction russian engines and ground IAF. But buying the rafale is like draining our aerospace capital to french factories voluntarily which has a stated policy of not sharing industrial know-how.

I remember you parroting this same line in the past on BRF as well. It went nowhere and will continue to go nowhere. Gripen will not come. It is amazing how people come out of the wood works, once the 114 MRFA deal is close to completion. Anybody but the French is the mantra!

I had asked you to provide the Twitter link in your post about the Gripen. You did not. I have thus removed that tweet. You are more than welcome to put that tweet back in again, but with the link.

[Rakesh]

seems Rafale acquision is just the stepping stone, in depth we're moving towards Rafale-Neuron-FCAS mfrg

FCAS is vaporware at this moment. Infighting among the Euro partners (mainly between France and Germany).

FCAS was supposed to arrive in the mid 2030s and was pushed back to the 2050s. And even that timeframe is in doubt.

[Rakesh]

India’s Mega Rafale Deal Explained | 114 Jets, Tejas Delays & China Threat

India may be on the verge of signing the biggest defence deal in its history — a proposed ₹3.25 lakh crore ($35 billion) agreement for 114 Rafale fighter jets. But with India already producing the LCA Tejas, why does the Indian Air Force need such a massive import? In this episode of Defence Deep Dive, senior defence journalist Sandeep Unnithan explains the strategic, numerical, and geopolitical reasons behind India’s Rafale decision.

[Rakesh]

Why India Picked French Rafale Over US’ 5th Generation F-35 & Russian Su-57 Fighter Jets

In the latest episode of Point Blank, Hindustan Times Executive Editor Shishir Gupta explains why India has chosen France’s Rafale as its next major fighter jet acquisition. Remember, the Defence Procurement Board recently cleared a proposal worth ₹3.25 lakh crore for 114 Rafale multi-role combat aircraft, with 25% of the deal set to be implemented in India under the “Make in India” framework. The episode decodes how France’s Rafale, considered a 4.5-generation aircraft and combat-proven, offers reliability without geopolitical strings. Watch this video for all the details.

[S_Madhukar]

A 2nd factor involves shared integration source codes, allowing Brazil’s growing arms industry to quickly add the weapons they’re developing for use by the FAB – or indeed, for any Gripen customer. Brazilian Gripens offered immediate integration with the cooperative A-Darter air-air missile that Brazil is developing with fellow Gripen customer South Africa, and deploying on its own modernized A-1M AMX fighters. Mectron’s MAR-1 anti-radiation missile is another example that will debut with Brazil’s Gripen NGs.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/br ... ram-04179/

Bro you are late…Your ancestors were on the forum before ..please come back during AMCA trials

[Rakesh]

Bro you are late…Your ancestors were on the forum before ..please come back during AMCA trials