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uddu wrote: ↑12 Feb 2026 22:19
Rakesh ji, I am not saying Su-30MKI is an option if today the choice is made. Su-30 MKI is a decision way back. For sure. our own mistake that we did not go ahead with Marut and further fighters etc. Su-30MKI is a fighter that already exists in IAF. The only option is to upgrade them and keep doing it till the AMCA MK2's arrive. It's really pathetic that the Super Sukhoi upgrade is taken up very late. Once again shows the IAF's lack of vision. The numbers that are updated are in the 83, I don't know why keep the remaining obsolete? Will adding More Rafael must have given us the edge or fast tracking the Super Sukhoi program must have given use the edge in dominating the skies. Import Rafale and then keep remaining fighters in obsolesce is another issue of the IAF.
Wistfully talking about the past is not going to change the present or the future.
The path ahead is all that matters. The reality is we do not have our own engine. So now we are importing fighters. The foolishness of that decision is the price to pay for not funding your own homegrown low-bypass turbofan.
uddu wrote: ↑12 Feb 2026 22:03led. The numbers of 114 is insane. It must have been max at another 24 or so. Just to make sure there is some induction of fighters when the MK2 starts getting inducted. IAF fight with? IAF not inducting Astra on time with Su-30 MKI has cost us? Who prevented them from that? Astra is in testing from how many years. While flying with Russian missiles and not inducting a modern missile. They can fight such a war? May be shocked at the result of it. Then started induction of Astra. Take the case of upgrading of radars Why is it still taken such a long time if IAF is so urgent and is want to fight with Modern AESA radar in the face of Uttam? Only now that project is getting sanction when everything is perfect and tech beats global competition. How capable are Mirages and Mig-29's compared to MK1A's? Replace them with MK1A's if you are sure that they are better than those aircrafts. Starts with the basics. Take the first step.
Whether we like it or not, 114 will come. Look at the future fleet strength. By the middle of the next decade, the MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and Jaguars will all retire. On the horizon is 180 incoming Tejas Mk1A + 272 Su-30MKI + 36 Rafales + 100 Tejas Mk2. That comes to little over 29 squadrons. The official strength is supposed to be at 42. What will you fill the gap with? Even if we add another 100 more Mk2s, that will bring the strength to around 34 squadrons. You still need another 8 squadrons more. What will you fill it with?
Rakesh ji, Squadron strength. You want numbers? Mass manufacture MK1A's. Followed by MK2's, Followed by AMCA. Followed by ORCA etc in the 300's.
Still it will be better than showing numbers with Mirage+Mig-29+Jaguar+Rafale. About leverage on engines, the more the numbers better will be your leverage. You want options. Make 200 MK1A's with American engines. Create a French variant version and manufacture the same with French ones. Do both in parallel. Eventually replace both with Kaveri.
Last edited by uddu on 12 Feb 2026 22:28, edited 2 times in total.
My only hope is that there is some deal which Will help ave our local engines for LCA Mk1A, Mk2 and AMCA, atleast that will get us a bigger fleet, I hope UAE Rafale MRO is part of this deal, so we will eventually have 176 Rafale between AF and Navy.
Aditya_V wrote: ↑12 Feb 2026 22:23
My only hope is that there is some deal which Will help ave our local engines for LCA Mk1A, Mk2 and AMCA, atleast that will get us a bigger fleet, I hope UAE Rafale MRO is part of this deal, so we will eventually have 176 Rafale between AF and Navy.
There seems 0 involvement of IAF. Now there may be as the ministry or ministers may be asking them to do something. Not heard a single word of asking for Kaveri or its variants from the Chief or anyone in the IAF till now. Not a tidbit of news. The most you hear is Kaveri thrust requirement did not meet our needs. That's it. Whatever is happening the news is that of DRDO improving on it and private players offering afterburner and so on. IAF is like we will import. Maja Nahi Aya with desi equipment. They want perfection with indigenous equipment. Fine, that's how it should be. But when we open the IAF's own record, it's pathetic.
Last edited by uddu on 12 Feb 2026 22:32, edited 1 time in total.
uddu wrote: ↑12 Feb 2026 22:22
Rakesh ji, Squadron strength. You want numbers? Mass manufacture MK1A's. Followed by MK2's, Followed by AMCA. Followed by ORCA etc in the 300's.
Still it will be better than showing numbers with Mirage+Mig-29+Jaguar+Rafale. About leverage on engines, the more the numbers better will be your leverage. You want options. Make 200 MK1A's with American engines. Create a French variant version and manufacture the same with French ones. Do both in parallel. Eventually replace both with Kaveri.
Numbers in large triple digits will come about only with our own engine.
The IAF, the MoD, the PMO and the Babus (the stakeholders) will not jump on board without our own homegrown turbofan. None of the above will become a reality without their buy in.
uddu wrote: ↑12 Feb 2026 22:22
Rakesh ji, Squadron strength. You want numbers? Mass manufacture MK1A's. Followed by MK2's, Followed by AMCA. Followed by ORCA etc in the 300's.
Still it will be better than showing numbers with Mirage+Mig-29+Jaguar+Rafale. About leverage on engines, the more the numbers better will be your leverage. You want options. Make 200 MK1A's with American engines. Create a French variant version and manufacture the same with French ones. Do both in parallel. Eventually replace both with Kaveri.
Numbers in large triple digits will come about only with our own engine.
The IAF, the MoD, the PMO and the Babus (the stakeholders) will not jump on board without our own homegrown turbofan. None of the above will become a reality without their buy in.
They are also responsible for the pathetic state of situation. If Parikkar has said let's import rather than attempt an HTT-40, we will continue importing basic trainers. The leadership is supposed to lead by providing what is needed to get things done, rather than do wait and watch games. Kaveri came with lesser thrust. Tech is there. Provide the needed facilities. Get the private players involved in improving the afterburner section if they have the facilities to manufacture them taking tech from lab to factory. Cut down time. However it is, get the Kaveri project done and make it fly on Tejas. Otherwise why we need to have a Defense Minister? Just to import fighters from abroad? Multiple Kaveri engines of various sizes and thrust could be done for the money being put in imports.
Rakesh wrote: ↑12 Feb 2026 22:21
The path ahead is all that matters. The reality is we do not have our own engine. So now we are importing fighters. The foolishness of that decision is the price to pay for not funding your own homegrown low-bypass turbofan.
Rakesh ji, It's not just the past. It's Present and Future as well. There is very very little change in this attitude that existed then and today. Import Air Force disease has not changed. The Soon to be Future version of it is the need to have Su-57. Then will come the need to import 6 th gen and so on. Until you cure the disease by yourself and choose what the Indian Navy is doing, no one can help the IAF. They will remain an Imported Air Force.
Also there is a hidden danger in the Rafale deal. It's the radar. Nowhere in the news the option to change radar is mentioned. After a decade when the need to replace the radar comes into picture, which radar are we going to replace it with? Upgrade variant of the Virupaaksha Ver2 or 3? If it can only have French Radars, we may even have to compromise on better radar and pay huge amount again to the French to have their radar at that time. Then what about weapons if those Indian made weapons are not compatible with that French radar and France at that time decides not to help integrate Indian weapons? Where will we go with that outdated Rafale?
The IAF at that time, may not be even thinking of upgrading the radar with Virupaksha ver 2/3 but asking for import of Fifth gen fighter since Chinese has 6th gen fighters and we are short of squadron strength while inducting MK2 in 100 and AMCA another 100.
uddu wrote: ↑12 Feb 2026 22:55
Also there is a hidden danger in the Rafale deal. It's the radar. Nowhere in the news the option to change radar is mentioned. After a decade when the need to replace the radar comes into picture, which radar are we going to replace it with? Upgrade variant of the Virupaaksha Ver2 or 3? If it can only have French Radars, we may even have to compromise on better radar and pay huge amount again to the French to have their radar at that time. Then what about weapons if those Indian made weapons are not compatible with that French radar and France at that time decides not to help integrate Indian weapons? Where will we go with that outdated Rafale?
The IAF at that time, may not be even thinking of upgrading the radar with Virupaksha ver 2/3 but asking for import of Fifth gen fighter since Chinese has 6th gen fighters and we are short of squadron strength while inducting MK2 in 100 and AMCA another 100.
that is very much the reality. India has no other option than to keep up., buy or build
uddu wrote: ↑12 Feb 2026 22:55
The IAF at that time, may not be even thinking of upgrading the radar with Virupaksha ver 2/3 but asking for import of Fifth gen fighter since Chinese has 6th gen fighters and we are short of squadron strength while inducting MK2 in 100 and AMCA another 100.
that is very much the reality. India has no other option than to keep up., buy or build
We have the real Atmanirbhar option if they choose it. IAF should be onboard not in lip service but in asking for it and getting it done. It's really tough, but they have to trend that path for a decade atleast. Once IAF takes the lead others including the MoD to RM to PM will follow and provide what is required.