News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Shirish
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Shirish »

just thinking aloud, but did the mirage folks help out in the form of consultants, maybe early in the game? To my layman's eyes, the forward section of the fuselage looked very similar to the M2000 . Any ideas?
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by shashidhar »

The only way the chinese can get LCA is by buying it!Say about 2000 or 3000 of them with options for more.These will be without any avionics and a derated engine.It must still be better than their J-10!!<BR>Of course the Vietnamese will get the latest versions!!
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by shiv »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skanhai:<BR><B>Does anybody knows why the LCA flew with the undercarrage down?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The first flight was essentially to prove a whole lot of things - not the least of which I suppose was the ability to take off, fly, turn and land during which comparisons are made with predictions and actual values. Retracting the undercarriage not only calls for the use of a complete system unrelated to actual flight but also changes the trim of the aircraft and brings new dynamics into play that I presume is not desired in a first flight. <P>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by merlin »

<I>>>Source please. The 9500 Kg figure does not fit well with other considerations.</I><P>This was what I was told by one of the test pilots a couple of days back.<BR>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by JCage »

Bobj,<BR>Rest assured!!
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by merlin »

<I>>>Any more test flights after the first public one ?</I><P>There's supposed to be one today (if all goes well).<BR>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by vsunder »

Here are some questions:<BR>1. Is Whitcomb's area ruling and Whitcomb's<BR>supercritical wing outdated concepts in modern fighter design?<BR>2.Does the area ruling concept play a particularly important role in the transonic regime? where most likely most combat action does take place, or across the board into<BR>the supersonic regime also.<BR>3. I am familiar with the concepts used in the HF-24, area ruling was used and this<BR>is clear from the pictures(Rupak alludes to this being used in his article also, in the archives). Do clean pictures of the LCA,<BR>show this concept utilized.<BR>4. Do fighter planes use vortex generators,<BR>did the HF-24 and the LCA use this idea. <BR>Basically I think it is used to replenish the boundary layer in contact with the wing,<BR>am I wrong to view vortex generators this way?<BR>Hope the pundits can point the way.
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by ramana »

A decent analysis of the LCA barriers. Still some erros but overall nice article rebutting Nadkarni. <A HREF="http://www.indiadefence.com/India_lca.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.indiadefence.com/India_lca.htm</A> <P>Sunder, depend on you to ask serious technical questions!
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by SaurabhG »

5 events for LCA planned this year <BR> <A HREF="http://www.hindubusinessline.com/stories/141804yc.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hindubusinessline.com/storie ... 4yc.htm</A> <P>According to Dr Kota, LCA would be able to replace all the aircraft in the MiG series. ``The LCA is a very efficient aircraft, half the size of MiG 27. But it can do a job of a MiG 27 or slightly better.'' <P>I am still fuzzy about what the 5 events are, but anyway can someone interpret the schedule from this. Also it seems they are planning to replace Mig 27s also later.<BR>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Sribabu »

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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by vram »

Excellent interview with Dr Kota Harinarayana:<P>`LCA is about creating wealth for country' <A HREF="http://www.hindubusinessline.com/2001/0 ... 1367ju.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hindubusinessline.com/2001/0 ... 7ju.htm</A> <P>Extract:<BR><I>Was the project required at all? Could the country not have bought what it needed?</I> <P>A country with a one-billion-strong population cannot be buying things from abroad. We can buy a few things, but strategic aircraft have to be developed here and that has been our challenge and mission. We do not want to make an aircraft by buying everything from abroad. What base would you create in this country? This country will remain poor forever. How else do we generate wealth here? The LCA project is not about building an aircraft. It is about creating wealth for the country. If everything is bought from abroad, how will you create jobs? <P>The LCA project was not about building an aircraft. We have developed a series of technologies and the cascading effect and spin-off effect is much more. For instance, several companies that developed technologies for the LCA have already started exporting them. There has been plenty of tears, tribulations and hard work. Any country that has taken up such projects, has done it the hard way. <P>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by sverma »

I always feel scared about the engines made by HAL as I hope that they don't come out <B>Rough</B> or as a piece of junk, decade after the inductance of LCA. I hope IAF doesn't suffer the similar fate as they are facing with the Mig-21, I hope GOI is learning something out of these crashes. <P>A nice combination of LCA and sukhoi-30MKI, and above all RAFALE. <B>Air-superiority and Attack jets</B>. If we can only make 3 times as much LCA's than Sukhoi's, IAF will be a strengthened force with a atleast 2 Air-Carriers at the back with very Advanced Air-superiority jets.<BR><B>India, A commander of the 21st century</B>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by rahulm »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sverma:<BR><B>I always feel scared about the engines made by HAL as I hope that they don't come out.. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is a worry. Too much hinges on the Kaveri. Without the Kaveri we don't want the LCA to respresent a moment of Indian technological triumph frozen in "static displays".<P>In the link posted by ramana Jasjit Singh talks about using a proven engine like Russian Tumansky's for the first few production runs and then inducting Kaveri once it becomes "available". This makes a lot of sense. <P>The LCA should not be held hostage by the Kaveri.<P>The above mentioned link also states that the actuators for TD-1 were imported. From what I read over the last few weeks in various fora, these are an imprortant part of the FBW system. I hope that DRDO has a programme to ensure that indigenous actuators are used over a period of time.<P>We may find these hard to get as the LCA nears induction or may become expensive.<P>Rahul<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by rahulm (edited 17-01-2001).]
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by merlin »

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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Saurabh »

WOW <A HREF="http://www.hindubusinessline.com/stories/141804yc.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hindubusinessline.com/storie ... 4yc.htm</A> <BR>They hope to fly the prototype by year end. What did ADA/DRDO find? Alladin's Genie? [That's not pessimistic]<BR>Okay the five events can be<BR>1. Kaveri Engine testing<BR>2. TD2 integration tests<BR>3. Multimode radar test on Avro<BR>4. Airframe manufacture by September<BR>5. Prototype test by year end<P>------------------<BR>Adios<BR>Saurabh
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Nandai »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Esmile Merchant:<BR><B>LCA very closely resembles Draken. It is all the more pronounced if you look at the picture posted by Shaji. Any comments?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Are you talking about SAABs J35 Draken?<P>------------------<BR>Nandai<P>Since time began,<BR>the dead alone know peace.<BR>Life is like melting snow.
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by fanne »

More drivel
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by fanne »

More drivel<P>and I expect someone to ask whats objectionable.<P>Thanks,<BR>fanne<BR> <A HREF="http://www.the-hindu.com/fline/fl1802/18020420.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.the-hindu.com/fline/fl1802/18020420.htm</A> <P>The successful maiden flight of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft creates a milestone in Indian aviation history. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.the-hindu.com/fline/fl1802/18020440.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.the-hindu.com/fline/fl1802/18020440.htm</A> <P>The stumbling blocks <P>Stumbling block in his imagination that is<P>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Kuttan »

May I respectfully suggest that this fine and historic thread be archived and then locked, so a continuation can be started fresh?<P>This is threatening Imtiaz's record of 206 posts in his thread on the RSS. Note that Imtiaz himself accounted for about 97 of those posts. <P>"Five events this year?" Image<P>5. George Fernandes comes to Bangalore for ribbon-cutting ceremony for the Kaveri fan stage static tests. <BR>4. LK Advani makes a fiery speech standing with the cardboad mockup of the LCA as the backdrop, and warns China and TSP of "befitting replies" (but only when the post office strike is over). <BR>3. LCA does left-quartering tailwind landing, and demonstrates taxiing under its own power to the VIP gate at the airport. <BR>2. US sanctions are withdrawn and IAF cancels order for LCA and decides to try and buy F-15s (cheap as they are replaced by F-22). <BR>1. Cardboard cutout of Prototype PV-2 is displayed at August 15 parade in Nayi Dilli. <P><BR>I hope the 5 events are better than that. Not hard.
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Vinod Ji »

<I>something amiss.. I do not believe this report. </I><P><BR>Air Force to get LCA within 6 years <BR>AGRA: The indigenously manufactured Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which was successfully testfired at Bangalore recently, would be handed over to the Indian Air Force within a period of five to six years, LCA programme director Kota Harinarayana said here on Sunday. <P>The LCA would have to be test-flown at least half a dozen times to check whether all its systems were perfect, Harinarayana, who is here in connection with the 52nd annual general meeting of the Aeronautical Society of India, told reporters. <P>Describing the aircraft as the "smallest supersonic fighter" in the world, he said the distinguishing feature of the aircraft was its higher manoeuvrability and ability to engage in combat. <P>The aircraft would play a multi-purpose role as it would be an all-weather plane that could carry four and half tonnes of material, Harinarayana said. <P><B>He said the single-seater aircraft would go into production next year and in three years, it would be made a two-seater trainer aircraft. <I>{{{{ what is this????? Is the reporter nuts or what?}}}} </I></B><P><BR>He also said that the aircraft would replace the MiG aircraft which was about 40 years old and built on old aviation technology. (PTI)<BR> <A HREF="http://www.timesofindia.com/today/21indu14.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.timesofindia.com/today/21indu14.htm</A>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by svinayak »

In Interavia AeroSpace review 1990 Dr. Harinarayana is quoted<BR>" The LCA must be the only combat aircraft to have the same fuselage length for its fighter and trainer versions. THis will enhance commonality and thus reduce production cost said Dr. Harinarayana. An internal fuel tank<BR>would probably have to be removed to make way for the second seat in the trainer version."<BR>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Kaushal »

Another similar report (to the TOI)from a highly reliable source, the Deccan Chronicle<P>Kaushal<BR> <A HREF="http://www.deccan.com/itop4.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.deccan.com/itop4.htm</A> <P><B> Air Force to get LCA jet fighters within six years<BR>Agra, Jan. 21: The indigenously manufactured Light Combat Aircraft, which was successfully tested at Bangalore recently, would be handed over to the Indian Air Force within a period of five-six years, LCA programme director Kota Harinarayana said here on Sunday. </B><BR>The LCA would have to be test-flown at least half-a-dozen times to check whether all its systems were working in perfection, Harinarayana, who is here in connection with the 52nd annual general meeting of the Aeronautical Society of India, said.<P>Describing the aircraft as the “smallest supersonic fighter” in the world, he said the distinguishing feature of the aircraft was its higher manoeuvrability and ability to engage in combat.<P>The aircraft would play a multi-purpose role as it would be an all-weather plane that could carry 4.5 ton payload, Harinarayana said.<P>The scientists said the single-seater fighter would go into production next year and in the three years time it would be made a two-seater trainer aircraft. He said that the aircraft would replace the MiG-21 jets, which was about 40 years old. The MiG-21s form the IAF backbone.<P>Meanwhile, Wing Commander Rajiv Kothiyal, who piloted the maiden LCA flight, said the experience was “thrilling.”<P>Wg Cdr Kothiyal said that though he was not nervous while manning the controls of the aircraft, he certainly was not sure of how it would behave in the flight. But the presence of two Mirage 2000 aircraft was greatly reassuring, he said.<P>Kothiyal said he was in the cockpit for some 20 minutes but the actual flying time was about ten minutes during which the aircraft rose to a height of 3000 metres and covered a distance of some 30-40 km.<BR> <BR>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by ehsmang »

I have a habit of going through all tenders raised by HAL & ordanance factories. <P>There is a tender floated by HAL for <P>'construction of facilities for assembling Kaveri engine'.<P>The total cost of tender was Rs 90,000,00. and thw work is to be completed by April 2002.<BR>What significance can this news item have?
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by JE Menon »

Ehsmang, thanks for that bit of info. As for significance, I suppose it indicates that HAL is pretty confident that GTRE is going to deliver the goods as far as Kaveri is concerned. <P>BTW, does the project cost not seem small - i.e. Rs 9 million, just 90 lakhs - for a facility to assemble engines, when we consider that a house in Delhi's suburbs might cost Rs 40-50 lakhs if not more?
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by merlin »

<I>>>BTW, does the project cost not seem small - i.e. Rs 9 million, just 90 lakhs - for a facility to assemble engines, when we consider that a house in Delhi's suburbs might cost Rs 40-50 lakhs if not more?</I><P>I don't think that 90 lakhs includes the land costs. So, basically, its just constructing the buildings and stuff inside.<BR>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Vinod Ji »

<A HREF="http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/2 ... LNAT18.asp" TARGET=_blank>The project should be sustained at all costs to give the country's its very own workhorse for the future </A> <P><BR>AS EUPHORIA over the 20-minute dream flight of the country's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) early this month begins to calm down, analysts who have been tracking the progress of its development, say notwithstanding the delays, the project should be sustained at all costs to give the country's its very own workhorse for the future. <P>Coming four decades after the country stunned the world by flying its own fighter aircraft HF-24 or Marut, and half a decade behind its own targetted schedule, LCA should not meet the same fate as the Marut which was shelved, says Air Commodore (retd) Jasjit Singh, director Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA). <P>However, in the same breath experts like him say that the project, should be speeded up with sustained efforts and back up so that the multi-role combat fighter can be integrated into the Air Force within the scheduled time. <P>In similar vein, a retired senior Indian Air Force personnel says, "in terms of aviation 10 years is short if we manage to upgrade the 125 MiG-21s and the SU 30s become available as per schedule. By then the availability of LCA should have ensured the adequacy of the force structure, he says, requesting anonymity and insisting that the pace of development of the aircraft be accelerated if it's to become the mainstay of the force in future. <P>Comparing the indigenous LCA with that of its Swedish counterpart, which was conceived around the same time in the eighties as the Indian one and has now entered service, Singh points that their industry has 50 years of experience. <P>Yet, he is of the view that it's time that the design team starts working on a follow-on design and other experts take on the testing and further stages of the project. <P>Privately, several IAF officials point that whenever projects by developing countries tend to show some promise, despite delays -- which may be for more reasons than one -- there appear several international offers on the horizon, making available known-tested technologies at affordable prices. This makes it difficult for countries like ours where pumping money in delayed projects are not popular and face a lot of pressure. <P>For the LCA the biggest focus now is on the indigenous Kaveri engine, which is now in the testing stages, notes Air Commodore R V Phadke. <P>"When the Marut made it to the sky, albeit an imported engine, it made an impact greater than the nuclear tests," says Singh, noting that even in those days its design and airframe was rated as very much ahead of its times. <P>According to Phadke, the development of an indigenous engine, which is manufactured by just a handful of companies in the world, is very significant. He suggests that the project should be de-linked from the force structure that is future planning for the IAF should be independent of the progress LCA has made. <P>Says the retired official "it's true that very few countries have developed the technology for this type of an aircraft, but we have to accelerate our pace of development." <P>Emphasising on greater interface between the designers and the end users of technology in the field, he says in doing it would be developing along the prevailing technologies or seeking partnership with countries that have the expertise. <P>He suggests a consortium like the one in Europe, which got together for developing Euro-fighter or Typhoon, naming France, China and Israel as potential partners. <P>While "France is a commercial country, Israel's help may be sought as it is a natural ally," says the official, noting that China too could be roped in citing that Beijing is after all providing fuel for our nuclear plants. <P>Making realistic assessments of LCA's role in the country's force, the official, points that the LCA is supposed to be a reasonably modern aircraft and as the name suggests its delivery capacity will not be high, the fighter by itself does not comprise the total force, however, we must develop on it and also develop more variants to perform other functions of the IAF also. <P>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by JE Menon »

Vinodji,<P>I am unable to understand your post, probably because of my lack of knowledge about such projects. Are you saying the tender documents cost Rs 90,000, i.e. 1% of project cost? What has the Middle East got to do with it and where does the $20m come into the picture? Please explain.<P>Err.. Vinodji, where's your post about costs gone?<p>[This message has been edited by JE Menon (edited 22-01-2001).]
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by SaurabhG »

Two more jet fighter prototypes in 2001<BR> <A HREF="http://www.economictimes.com/today/in09.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.economictimes.com/today/in09.htm</A> <P>"The LCA is now doing more flying. We'll have it on flying exhibitions at the airshow in the second week of February," Fernandes said, referring to an airshow in Bangalore next month. - Reuters <P> Didnt they earlier say It will be only for static display at aero2001 ?<BR>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by SaurabhG »

Production of Arjun tank to start soon: Fernandes <BR> <A HREF="http://www.timesofindia.com/today/22indu10.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.timesofindia.com/today/22indu10.htm</A> <P>He said that the second prototype of the LCA, which had its maiden test flight recently, would be airborne during next month's Aero-India exhibition in Bangalore. (PTI)<P>Not only there will be a flying exhibition but that too of the second prototype. Wow. This thing is moving faster than anyone anticipated.
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by rama »

The Times and Hindu reports are mis- interpretations / misreprepesentations of genuine statements.<P>In all probability IAF will get it's hands on a couple of LCAs for independent user trials in six years. "Production" of LCA will start next year in the sense that assembly of a prototype vehicle with the exact final systems will be started next year. This is consistent with the Kaveri being available in 2002, which we have heard of separately. These two milestones seem plausible.<P>Production (as in serial production) of LCA starting next year and deliveries to IAF (as in delivery of an operational system) in six years sound nonsensical.
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Calvin »

Hameed<BR>New Member posted 22-01-2001 12:39 <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P><BR>NEW DELHI, Jan 22 (Reuters) - Indian Defence Minister George Fernandes said on Monday two more prototypes of the country's first indigenously developed jet fighter would be test-flown this year. <P>"The second prototype will be ready within three months and before the year is over a third prototype will be flying," Fernandes told a business conference. <P>"Three LCAs will be on view for the whole world to see." <P>The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) made its maiden test flight earlier this month. <P>But that was 17 years after the ambitious programme was launched and it will be at least another decade before the plane -- which at one time was meant to become the backbone of the Indian Air Force -- could be flown in combat. <P>"The LCA is now doing more flying. We'll have it on flying exhibitions at the airshow in the second week of February," Fernandes said, referring to an airshow in the southern city of Bangalore next month. <P>05:43 01-22-01<BR>
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by JE Menon »

Ok, Vinodji, now I'm totally in the dark. Thank god I'm not a project manager.
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Vinod Ji »

JEM<BR>The last Project Manager who worked under me is still in Mad house.. Oh I am good noooo?<BR> Image <P>I will remove my posts in few minutes .. hope you do the same as they are irrelevent here. Have a g'day! Image Image
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Re: News, Reports and Analysis: LCA

Post by Kuttan »

From the above, I conclude that ACM Tipnis, who to his credit flew in the Mirage chase-plane for the LCA first flight, has put his career and reputation on the line by agreeing to accept LCAs to replace the MiG-21 fleet. In return he demanded that production be moved fast, and the delivery schedule accelerated. <P>These reports confirm what we have always known: when there is REAL urgency, things move at lightning speed in India.
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