Agni test of 09 January 2003

Bharat · Post by **Bharat** » 09 Jan 2003 10:53

The MSN and Indiatimes report testfiring of Agni-1.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/comp/articleshow?artid=33843445

NDTV has also reported in the news.
Apparently it is the Agni-SR .

On the Rediff site

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/09agni.htm

posted ...later

The up in the ante of nuclear in the sub continent is definitely taking place.
The first was Mush's comment abt unconventional warfare.
The yet again overt declaration of Indian second command capabilities.
The threat of George.

There seems to be a momentum of its own as events take place in a cyclic fashion.
Also to be taken into account is the skirmish at the Durand line .
The Pak NK nuke deals made public in US media.
The reports of AQ Khan as a nuclear retailer .
The reports of AQ and Taliban within Pak.

tiruvar00r · Post by **tiruvar00r** » 09 Jan 2003 11:16

We must give the Associated press credit(and a HUH?) where it is due.

"Such tests are routine, and are rarely announced in advance."

For not sensationalizing the test (must be the 70 Bn forex speaking) and for not knowing in advance(I did, as did most indian diaspora watching India).

Vanahan · Post by **Vanahan** » 09 Jan 2003 11:22

This test was supposedly carried out by elements of an Indian Artillery Group, any more info on this? I know 333 handles the P-I. Which group handles the A-II and now the A-I?

Imtiaz Ahmed · Post by **Imtiaz Ahmed** » 09 Jan 2003 11:39

From http://intelligenceonline.net

Artillery group to fire Agni-I
7 January 2003: India is moving a step closer to nuclear weaponisation by tasking an artillery group to conduct user trials on the nuclear-capable Agni-I ballistic missile whose firing from Wheeler’s Island has been postponed to 8 a.m. on 9 January 2003.

Officials said that vice army chief Lieutenant-General Pankaj Joshi and deputy chief J.S.Yadava have reached the test site where a nucleus of artillery personnel will fire the 600-900-kilometer-range missile under guidance of scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

There is still confusion about the composition of the strategic forces command with the Indian Army and Air Force locking horns over control of tactical missiles but the artillery force that will fire the Agni-I from Chandipur-at-sea has been training with DRDO and will form the core of the nuclear missile regiment that is to be raised.

“The use of artillery personnel in the firing indicates that induction of nuclear weapons is one step away,” an official said.

An Agni-I prototype was successfully test flown on 25 January 2002 amidst military tension with Pakistan.

Agni-I is a single-stage solid-fuel missile and covers the gap between the short-range Prithvi and the intermediate-range ballistic missile Agni-II.

Sunil · Post by **Sunil** » 09 Jan 2003 12:20

On Feb 6, 1959 a fully operational US Strategic Air Command crew launched the Atlas SM-65 missile.

This event marked the end of the "missile gap" and the start of a ICBM based nuclear deterrent. Within the year an operational SAC force comprising some 9 missile batteries was raised. I shall leave the rest unsaid.

So fill in the blanks folks, I extend my congratulations to all concerned.

This is the scene guys, this is _the_ scene.

Welcome to the big league boys and girls, get the mithai out.

S Bajwa · Post by **S Bajwa** » 09 Jan 2003 20:08

Good job... Now we want at least 20+ batteries deployed all over India from Himalayas to Kerala and Kashmir to Nagaland to Andaman Nicobar Islands.

MohanJ · Post by **MohanJ** » 09 Jan 2003 20:45

This event marked the end of the "missile gap" and the start of a ICBM based nuclear deterrent. Within the year an operational SAC force comprising some 9 missile batteries was raised. I shall leave the rest unsaid

Thanks Sunil for putting the launch in perspective. Now it makes sense that the launch was not a 'test' launch but a Landmark of transition. A new phase!

I hope for a BRM article on this launch and its implications and role along with the Stat.Forces Command details.

GGanesh · Post by **GGanesh** » 09 Jan 2003 21:14

I have a Q for the missile experts. Why is the Prithvi still liquid-fuelled? Why not go to a solid propulsion much like the Agni-I?

George J · Post by **George J** » 09 Jan 2003 21:48

Originally posted by GGanesh:
I have a Q for the missile experts. Why is the Prithvi still liquid-fuelled? Why not go to a solid propulsion much like the Agni-I?

GGanesh, read Weapons of Peace first. That will give you insights on the paal-ticks of making a missile.

Rest:
1)Do we have any pics of this test?
2)Rail or Road mobile? (please please let it be road mobile)
3)If an artillary group was involved in launching it, I hope they have it in the appropriate colour scheme.
4)Are there any inherent advantages of lobbing a missile into the sea? Is there any recovery of the missile?
5)Is the current technology mature enuf to espouse and over land flight?

Kumar · Post by **Kumar** » 09 Jan 2003 21:50

I read somewhere that a Prithvi will be test fired too during this series of tests. Lets keep our fingers crossed for a solid fueled Prithvi test.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 09 Jan 2003 21:55

Originally posted by Ashok Kumar:
I read somewhere that a Prithvi will be test fired too during this series of tests. Lets keep our fingers crossed for a solid fueled Prithvi test.

From what I have read, this will be a Prithvi version with extended range (250 Km. vs. earlier 150 Km.). There is no talk of a soild-fueled Prithvi.

I think Prithvi and Dhanush will continue to be liquid-fuelled, while the solid-fueled ones will be developed under Agni and other programs.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2003 21:57

GJ re-read WOP. Lobbing into sea is useful as the RV releases a dye upon impact and marks the spot for CEP calcs! Somewhere else I read that the group was called 222 regiment. Still looking..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2003 22:04

Actual text from Pioneer.....

Agni-I test-fired

Agencies/Balasore

India Thursday successfully test-fired Agni-I missile from the launch complex of the Wheeler's island located in the Bay of Bengal off the Orissa coast, defence sources said.

The test firing took place at around 8.47 am

The surface-to-surface missile was test fired in clear weather from a mobile launcher and it was a "smooth text book flight", the sources said.

The new short range missile of the Agni series has a striking range of about 700 km and its first trial was conducted on January 25 last year from the same complex, they said.

Defence Minister George Fernandes, Defence Research and Development Organisation chief and scientific advisor to the Ministry of Defence V K Atre were present.
------------------
From Hindustan Times....
India to test ballistic missiles
Reuters
New Delhi, January 8

India is preparing to test a range of missiles over the next few days, including a shorter-range version of its Agni nuclear-capable missile, a defence official said on Wednesday.

The surface-to-surface Agni is a key element of India's nuclear self-defence strategy against nuclear-armed neighbours China and Pakistan. India has had an indigenous missile programme for nearly 20 years.

India and Pakistan have ended a 10-month military buildup on the border last year but continue to wrangle over the disputed the Himalayan region of Kashmir and in recent days have engaged in tough nuclear rhetoric.

A Pakistani official said firing by Indian troops on Wednesday across the heavily militarised Kashmir frontier had killed one civilian and wounded two others. There was no immediate comment from Indian officials.

Defence experts, however, said the proposed Indian missile tests were unlikely to re-ignite military tensions with Pakistan because these were routine trials.

The Indian defence official said preparations had been made to test an Agni-I missile, with a range of 600 to 800 km (370 to 500 miles), from a launch pad in the Bay of Bengal.

An intermediate version of the ballistic missile with a range of 2,500 km (1,550 miles) has already been declared operational.

"Experts are camping at the site, we expect the tests to take place in the next few days," the official said.

Defence scientists also plan to test a supersonic cruise missile jointly developed with Russia. The Brahmos missile, with a range of 280 km (175 miles), is set to enter production by year end.

Russia and India have close defence ties stemming from the Cold War. Nearly 70 per cent of India's defence hardware is of Soviet origin. In recent years, New Delhi has ordered fighter planes, tanks and submarines from Russia.

The armed forces also plan to test a 250-km (150-mile) range variant of its surface-to-surface missile, Prithvi, which is thought to be nuclear capable. A 150-km (90-mile) version of the Prithvi, which means earth, is already being used by the army.

Pakistan, which matched India's underground nuclear explosions in May 1998 with tests of its own, has also developed a range of missiles to deliver such weapons.

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 09 Jan 2003 22:36

there are 2 new regiments 444 and 555. maybe one will be A-2 , other A-1. 333 will continue with prithvi until Brahmos TELs arrive imo.

the overlap if any with the new artillery div armed with MLRS, SP guns, towed guns etc is unknown to me atleast.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 09 Jan 2003 22:43

From 'Hindu News Update' of Jan 09, 2003

***************
UK slams Agni test

London, Jan 9. (PTI): Britain today regretted India's decision to test-launch ballistic missile Agni, saying it sends wrong signals in the region and beyond.

"The UK regrets India's decision to test a ballistic missile. We believe that restrain in developing possible nuclear weapons delivery systems is in the long-term interest of India and the region," a Foreign Office spokesman said.

He said the test "sends the wrong signals within the region and beyond."
***************

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2003 22:54

I think India should reply in kind whenever the UK tests its submarine based missiles.

Arun A · Post by **Arun A** » 09 Jan 2003 23:46

I heard surinam condemned the Indian missile tests...If we dont care about what surinam says, why do we care about what mini-me says..?

saint · Post by **saint** » 09 Jan 2003 23:47

India's nuclear security gets a boost

http://expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=18262

IE also has the link to BR's missile armoury. http://expressindia.com

Britain said the Indian missile test sent a wrong signal to the region and beyond
..
Pak terms Agni test part of 'war-mongering'

Jane's Strategic Weapons System estimates India has 100 to 150 warheads and Pakistan 25 to 50.

===

now the source "BR" says its medium range [MR]. and it was well discussed at the "source" as SR. !!!!????

Prateek · Post by **Prateek** » 10 Jan 2003 00:00

Originally posted by ramana:
I think India should reply in kind whenever the UK tests its submarine based missiles.

It's assumed that, anything the P5 nations do is OK. But if others do the same, it always sends the wrong signals in the region and beyond!

We just got to do what we need to do. Well done India !

Or, may be that the UK is not happy, since India have not yet put an order to buying HAWK's !

IMO, the best way to deal with them for India would be to bring them under our missile range! This will make them not to slam Indian tests, but they will become your partners and share your security concerns !

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 10 Jan 2003 00:05

He said the test "sends the wrong signals within the region and beyond."

The time is way past for sending signals. This time around India is signaling its <u>resolve</u> to defend against any aggressor, conventional or otherwise period.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 10 Jan 2003 00:33

From the expressindia link posted above by Sai_NT:

Agni-1 has a one-tonne payload capacity and can be fired from rail and road launchers, making it highly mobile.

I guess that answers the question about road launchers.

Prateek · Post by **Prateek** » 10 Jan 2003 00:46

With one mouth the UK says, India sending wrong signals, but using the other one they say...

India, Russia, China to be great powers: Tony Blair

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?artid=33783634

George J · Post by **George J** » 10 Jan 2003 00:48

Naah I would still like to see pics of the latest launch on a 'ROAD' mobile launcher.

I was just thinking about this 'clear weather' aspect. Do they still wait for clear weather to test even their operation assets like the prithvi? I can understand developmental flights require the best weather.

Ramana:
My question was w.r.t to its actual use. If the system has been validated (say the prithvi) then it should be tested over land to gauge true utility and reliablity. After all wasnt that our grouse with the Ghauri testing, that since it over flew land, it HAD to be a tried and tested platform.

Now its our turn.

Prateek · Post by **Prateek** » 10 Jan 2003 00:51

>> Now its our turn

Sad that India is now trying to follow Pakistan ! Has India fallen behind ?

Prateek · Post by **Prateek** » 10 Jan 2003 00:52

Agni missile undergoes trial by fire
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jan10/iag.asp

“India does not need Agni to target Pakistan. Prithvi is enough to take care of all the critical areas in Pakistan. Agni is directed more towards China and threats that might emerge in the future from that region,” Mr Bharat Karnad, a former member of National Security Advisory Board told Deccan Herald.

saint · Post by **saint** » 10 Jan 2003 00:52

Originally posted by muddur:
>> Now its our turn

Sad that India is now trying to follow Pakistan ! Has India fallen behind ?

..
and blame the west for seeing us through the pakistan prism.

Kuttan · Post by **Kuttan** » 10 Jan 2003 00:54

I can't understand all this hype. Its one thing for us to be happy at seeing a rocket going up, but otherwise, why does it have to so dramatic every time another development test of a weapon system occurs?

If you're a fish in the Bay of Bengal I can understand that there may be some concern, but otherwise...???

For example the UK statement should be slammed right left and center as unwarranted busybodies sticking their ****s into our affairs - to be stepped on.

I don't see that its any business of anyone else's that we test-fire a weapon system. I mean - if it is a new type of system, like the "KPL-1" I might understand that as an escalation.. but Agni? Come on!

Arun A · Post by **Arun A** » 10 Jan 2003 00:54

Originally posted by muddur:
>> Now its our turn

Sad that India is now trying to follow Pakistan ! Has India fallen behind ?

The soviets had a man in space when the American rockets were blowing up on the ground.

Kaushal · Post by **Kaushal** » 10 Jan 2003 00:54

Tony Blair "I sometimes think it is a good rule of thumb to ask of a country; are people trying to get into it or out of it? It's not a bad guide to what sort of country it is."

By that token, India is ahead of most countries. The current estimate of people getting in is well over 15 million over the last 2 decades, far exceeding those that are getting out. If india had an open border with TSP, I wager the same would happen on the other front, despite all the bleating and huffing and puffing about secularism.

Bottom line it is true that people are trying to get into india from almost every country in the Indian subcontinent .

Kaushal

Prateek · Post by **Prateek** » 10 Jan 2003 00:55

BK is right, Agni is not for use against Pakistan.

India can very well use Agni's to deter Chinese inductions of their forces in any of their any forward military basis, across the Indian border inside the state of Tibet.

Prateek · Post by **Prateek** » 10 Jan 2003 00:59

>> The soviets had a man in space when the American rockets were blowing up on the ground.

Yes, but I would rather like to be in race with the Chinese than the Pukes. As an Indian, I feel ashamed, if one tries to compare India with Pakistan, in any terms.

Let the Chinese missile fly now, but we'll overtake them, survive and thrive!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2003 01:13

N^3two points about this test.
1) This is a test by an operational group of Indian Army. Signifies that it is no longer a development test and is operationally deployed. Hence the blather from TSP.
2) Karnad is not correct. The Prithvi with its short range is considered destabilizing when it is moved near the border. Hence the A-I Short Range is needed for it can be readied without raising redflags. So is less destabilizing as it wont make the TSP nervous and let loose their barbarian thugs at first hearing of Prithvi movement from their sundry assets and uncles and aunts. So Agi SR is very much needed for TSP.

-------------
Muddur please take a break and dont post a new one just for heck of it. All your posts could be consolidated without loss of generality.

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 10 Jan 2003 01:48

Republic day parade is approaching.

P Babu · Post by **P Babu** » 10 Jan 2003 02:15

Originally posted by muddur:
>> The soviets had a man in space when the American rockets were blowing up on the ground.

Yes, but I would rather like to be in race with the Chinese than the Pukes. As an Indian, I feel ashamed, if one tries to compare India with Pakistan, in any terms.

Let the Chinese missile fly now, but we'll overtake them, survive and thrive!

Competing with China is also not something to be proud of. They also stole so many technologies thru spies, or bought some of them. The thing we should be proud of is, China is trying to emulate us in the IT sector after our success.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2003 02:17

Prabhakar and Muddur please take it off-line. Thanks.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 10 Jan 2003 02:26

From the expressindia link posted by Sai_NT:

These are the official comments of the Govt. of UK:

"We believe that restraint in developing possible nuclear weapons delivery systems is in the long-term interest of India and the region," a Foreign Office spokesman said.

Aargh!

The snottiness of it all.

I wonder if they advocated 'restraint' yesterday when TSP inducted the 'Ghauri' in its arsenal.

I fervently hope and pray that during my lifetime, the per-capita GDP of India exceeds that of UK. That will show them.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2003 02:47

From Hindu, 1/10/03....
Agni missile test-fired successfully

By Sandeep Dikshit

NEW DELHI JAN. 9. India today successfully test-fired the 800-km-range Agni missile and plans to undertake more tests shortly before its induction in a newly-raised missile group drawn from the Army.

Test-fired with a one-tonne payload, its most likely warhead, the solid propellant-fuelled missile, fills the gap between the shorter range, Prithvi missile and the 2,500-km-range Agni-II. It will be cheaper than Agni-II and better than Prithvi, since it can be fired from a greater distance and with a heavier payload. Although the Prithvi has been inducted in the 333 Missile Group of the Army, its heavier weapon-carrying capacity is neutralised by Pakistan's M-11 missiles because of the shorter range. The Agni variant tested today can be placed at a much greater distance from the border and, thus, has much more survival capacity during hostilities. It also has a solid fuel-propellant system which means it can be launched much faster than a liquid fuel-propelled variant. Significantly, official sources said the missile was tested from a mobile platform which means that it has been nearly configured for use in a real-life setting — the Railways has already manufactured specialised wagons to carry it disguised as regular commercial goods cargo rake.

The launch met all the parameters and was tracked by a network of ground stations and naval ships. Sources said it was designed to carry ``special weapon payload'' which means a one-tonne nuclear device with a 45-kiloton thermonuclear design tested at Pokhran in 1998. Advanced tests might see the shorter range being tested with heavier payloads.

In addition to the shorter range Agni, India is also planning to test missiles of other capabilities. There are plans to conduct conclusive tests of the Brahmos cruise missile as well as the surface-to-air Akash and the anti-tank Nag missiles. The final phase of guided trials for Akash and the shorter range naval version, Trishul were planned last year.

Muralidhar Reddy reports from Islamabad:

Pakistan has alleged that the test-firing of the Agni missile is a reflection of the "war-mongering mindset" of the Indian leadership and maintained that "Pakistan is above such war-mongering psyche".

The Information Minister, Sheikh Rashid, who is known for his rhetoric, took the strident posture. In contrast, the reaction of the Pakistan Foreign Office was more measured as it sought to dismiss the test as "not an unexpected development".

The Foreign Office spokesman, Aziz Ahmed Khan, in a press statement, said the test was "not unexpected as India's nuclear and missile ambitions were well known." Asked whether Pakistan would respond with its own test, the spokesman said, "Pakistan conducts tests when our technical requirements so demand."

AshishN · Post by **AshishN** » 10 Jan 2003 02:58

---
"Pakistan conducts tests when our technical requirements so demand."
---

i.e. we're running out of ding-dongs.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 10 Jan 2003 03:09

Originally posted by George J:

4)Are there any inherent advantages of lobbing a missile into the sea? Is there any recovery of the missile?

With 1.1 Bn polpulation we still care for our people and economic acitivity, thus test over sea as musch as possible. Unlike China & Russia but much as the western owers that have easy access to sea range. Secondly there are many advantages to sea range including wider safe spash area, abelity to retrive the RV easy non-obstrusive support/monitoring vessel apaert from secure environment for guidence & navigational system.

5)Is the current technology mature enuf to espouse and over land flight?

Yes, but I ask when there is green grass all around why will the bull eat dry hey?

Glad to see Indian Express sourcing BR Missile section and range diagrams.

BR Admins: can we pls update the Agni-1 section to change status to "Operational" and also put contextual date for the first test? Pls drop me an email.

From the thread in Military Forum: Originally posted by Amitabh:
http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=110773
The sources said a series of seven developmental tests flights of the shorter range variant of AGNI-I missile were planned and each would be carried out with a payload ranging between one and three tonnes.

I find this very interesting for it for the first time indicates a viable use of missiles to wreck havoc on enemy with conventional 3 ton payload (which is huge and sufficeint to destroy enemy force while it is concentrating before an attack.

This also jives well with the stated range of 600 Km to 800Km. My rocket simulator indicates Agni-1 capable of 2,750 Kg payload across 600 Km.

Div · Post by **Div** » 10 Jan 2003 03:15

Just saw the launch on CNBC...looked good.