HariC wrote:Have their been any bloodbaths instigated by Christians against Hindus?
Heard of what goes on in the NE? Heck, I bet you are unaware of what goes on in the North itself if you are even asking this question..heck, thanks to EJ religious violence has been on the boil for well nigh two decades and counting, in my own personal experience.
I have seen people kill each other in UP and bihar based on caste - people cutting off other peoples hands because someone married into their caste.. But hey, we blame society and not religion.
I have seen Christians refuse to eat with other Christians based on what Xavier did...so is it personal animus, and historical developments influencing society or..religion?
Hmm, cutting off hands eh- nice hyperbole. What about bullets in kneecaps and skulls...because one is catholic, or one is protestant...chee thoo, only dirty hindoos do that...
Talk about modern India...and if religion was responsible, why isnt it happenig in modernising urban areas?
Do learn about how social development patterns, ethnic prejudice and economic disparities fuel the bulk of these "disagreements"..as compared to the whipping boy of "religion"..
Of course all these issues will disappear overnight...otherwise its the fault of religion...not because people are frickin' poor, desparate, ill-educated and have little to do but take recourse in ethnic identity..
When the same disaffected lower caste guy changes his religion to get out of it, we blame the other reigion and not our society or religion! like it or not, a significant percentage of conversions are attracted to X-tianity because it promises them some kind of liberation from the SC/ST/Untouchable labels.
Sadly, b0llocks. I have been amongst SC/STs and many varied ethnicities...to a man, I found them to be very aware of their heritage and hard to "convert" ...those who are poor otoh, will convert because economic realities and lack of education combine to create the circumstances. What you quoted is the usual myth...heck, spend time amongst proselytisers and even they'll admit how tough they find it..I was invited to a massive rally- (promised!)- which was a damp squib because nobody was even willing to convert to Buddhism...let alone christianity..
That when $$s and propoganda are not used...lest you bring up that strawman as well..
Dude, i dont know your background (other than you are netsavvy and sitting in US), but please note that the net savvy, NRI / RI crowd who frequent this board (or any other board) form less than half percent of India's population and maybe even more. Your noble ideals does not make or represent the rest of rural and urban india's. Come to UP, Come to MP, go to the villages and you will see how deep routed caste system is. This entire arguement of - "society is different from religion, hinduism is not to blame for casteism" is a fallacy. And oh yes, my circle of acquaintances will be no different from yours if you go back a generation and examine them in detail. .
Grin.....first, 25 posts old and you seek to tell people who they are and where they are from..! And you think I am in the US! And I dont know UP or MP (of all places!)- Please- I have spent more time up there and seen the realities in the villages and cities as compared to pontificating about it from afar and blaming a religion for it. FYI, religious groups are the only one who are turning folks away from caste "bhed bhav"...and yes, there indeed is something wrong with the folks you reference if they are so stuck up about caste...my acquaintances, and indeed their prior generations as well...have had many intercaste marriages, and bloodlines are so mixed that its no longer an issue of surprise..but when these things do come up, its invariably the *prejudice* of those who dont know better and are stuck in whichever era they were from....my acquaintances (nor I) dont cozen ourselves with belief of religious sanctioned caste taboos..unfortunately, you seem to be frustrated with your inability to recognise this simple fact..if the folks you seem to be angry with cant get over their prejudice...thats a problem with them...not with the religion...an easy crutch for people to use when faced with dealing with people they dont like or consider themselves superior to..if it is indeed religion which is the problem, care to explain how more and more Indians are easily slipping away from these issues without giving up their religious belief, hmmm? Does education and economic ability have anything to do with it?
Take Valkans replies for instance...and learn from there...what you consider "noble ideals" are merely the basis...anyone can be anything...its upto them to decide what they want to be...I can never be a mendicant surviving on alms and devoting myself to higher studies...but if a kid in a dalit family wants to choose that path...hey, his choice! I have no qualms in going and seeking religious advise from him.
Obviously there will be resistance...for centuries professions became identified to groups and ethnicities...its a mark of identity...but to confuse that with the religion itself is pointless.
The original context - someone objecting to rakesh's belief - get that right. you are twisting my words
Considering you were doing the same via raising strawmen, why the protest? If you addressed the point in a correct manner, I wouldnt have had to point out how flawed your line of reasoning was. Per you- only some perfect soul can go around and protest when someone offends him, eh? Otherwise, theres always the refrain of "your shirt is torn, how dare you point out my fly is open"?
At the sametime you are equating a christian's non-belief in other religions to a man waving around his schlong in front of you?. To each his own.
There you go...so much about twisting words...you have no problems in twisting words, but you whine and shit (as you put it) when your own inclearly defined words are interpreted any other way than that which you claim they were originally intended for..
If an EJ (which the discussion is about- and NOT Rakesh), refuses to give the deference due other religions while demanding the same from others, everyone is well within their rights to call him a hypocrite and castigate him/her. OTOH, your approach would have everyone take it as is, because of the "caste system"..