Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

[Singha]

there were trials from a british co couple of years back. its like small "domes" you place in the field and they report via wireless back to "mother".

someone mentioned it is useful for locating camouflaged enemy mortar or sniper positions in a hostile border standoff scenario (like Indo-Pak border
periodic clashes)

it is NOT a replacement for the real radar WLR which is far far longer ranged
and more sophisticated.

[sum]

Oh..ok...
Thanks for the info..

[Kakkaji]

From dailypioneer.com. Posting in full as the URL is not archived:

Defence deals overtake 123

Ashok Malik | New Delhi

Constant and unrelenting pressure from corporate India is one of the key factors keeping alive hopes of the India-United States nuclear deal. Indeed, as a senior Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) official put it, "While the focus may be on civil nuclear cooperation and arms purchases, the sinews of the strategic relationship are really being built by corporate collaborations."

As evidence, both Government and business sources pointed to February's Defexpo 2008 - India's flagship defence exposition - and the flurry of MoUs signed between Indian and American companies. For instance:

The Faridabad and Roorkee-based Precision Electronics has tied up with Raytheon to develop military communication technology.

The Tata Group has announced plans to manufacture helicopter cabins for the Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation - maker of the well-known Black Hawk helicopters. The Tatas have also formed a joint venture with Boeing to manufacture defence-related aerospace components. In addition, they have joined hands with Israel Aerospace Industries to "manufacture and develop missiles, pilotless aircraft, electronic warfare systems ... and other defence equipment".

The public sector Bharat Earth Movers Limited (BEML) has tied up with General Dynamics to make armoured patrol vehicles for use in difficult terrain.

While similar arrangements have also been announced between Indian and European companies, the "bulk of the agreements are with the Americans" "It is important to note," said an MEA source, "that these are not Government-to-Government technology sharing protocols. These are purely commercial deals between business corporations."

The slew of MoUs, sources said, is indicative of two things. First, it suggests a tacit approval from Washington, DC. Say 20 years ago, State Department and Pentagon bureaucrats would not have been as relaxed about sharing military-use know-how with Indian companies.

Second, as a senior official said, "In part, the American companies are anticipating offset commitments should they get Indian defence orders. Even otherwise, the commercial logic of outsourcing in IT and component manufacture is compelling, and so they are looking to India."

"Offset commitments" is the term for compensatory obligations a foreign company must incur in India when it wins a large Government order. Boeing, for example, makes the F-18 combat aircraft, which is in contention for a Rs 40,000 crore order from the Indian Air Force.

The implications of the Defexpo MoUs could be felt in the years to come. By plugging into the American military-industrial complex, Indian companies and Indian capital are likely to develop a stake in its success, sources argued, and create both a momentum and a stronger lobby for India-US strategic relations.

It could also push the political establishment into a strange dilemma if American military products, with Indian-made components, are accepted as superior and bought by third countries, but ignored in India itself. In a hypothetical situation, said one analyst, "Buying from the Russians on political rather than technological grounds will become more difficult if the competing equipment uses components and elements made by Indian companies and Indian labour."

[NRao]

From a Shiv Aroor blog site, Indo/Israeli handshakes as of Sept, 2007:

CONCLUDED/ON-GOING CONTRACTS

PHALCON AWACS (IAF)
BARAK MISSILE SYSTEM (NAVY)
SPYDER LLQRM SYSTEM (IAF)
GREENPINE LLT AND BM TRACKING RADAR (ARMY/IAF)
CRYSTAL MAZE STAND-OFF PGM (IAF)
HERON UAV (IAF/NAVY)
PYTHON AAM (NAVY)
ELTA EL/M-2032 FC RADAR FOR SEA HARRIER (NAVY)
EL/M-2083 AEROSTAT RADAR
SEARCHER-II UAV (IAF/ARMY/NAVY)
TAR-21 5.56MM ASSAULT RIFLE (ARMY/SF)
GALIL ASSAULT/SNIPER RIFLE (ARMY/SF)
INDIGENOUS AEW&C ADVISORY AND SUBSYSTEMS (DRDO)
F-INSAS INFANTRY MODERNISATION ADVISORY (DRDO/ARMY)
LAHAT TUBE MUNITION SYSTEM (ARMY)
GLASS COCKPIT KIT FOR HAL DHRUV (IAF)
SUPER DVORA MK-II PATROL BOAT (COAST GUARD)
UPGRADE PKG MIG-21 (IAF)
155MM AMMUNITION
155MM CARGO AMMUNITION
INFANTRY SUPPORT SYSTEMS (NV DEVICES, TRITIUM SIGHT)

PROPOSED SYSTEMS UNDER JWG/UNDER EVALUATION

MEDIUM-RANGE SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE (DRDO/ARMY/NAVY/IAF)
155MM 52-CALIBRE AUTONOMOUS & TOWED ARTY (ARMY)
SKYLITE-B MICRO-UAV / I-VIEW UAV (ARMY/SF)
LITENING POD FOR MIRAGE-2000/JAGUAR (IAF)
SPIKE MPATGM (ARMY)
DELILAH-II AR-MISSILE W/ LOITER CAPABILITY (IAF)
PYTHON AAM / DERBY AAM (IAF)
SPYDER LLQRM (ARMY)
GABRIEL MK-III ASHM (IAF/NAVY)
DESERT EAGLE/JERICHO HANDGUN (ARMY/SF)
NEGEV MACHINEGUN (ARMY)
MICRO-UZI/UZI M-PISTOL (SF)
UPGRADE PKGS MIRAGE 2000H, MIG-29, TU-142, MI-17 HELO
ANTI-BALLISTIC MISSILE SYSTEM
SUBMERGED LAUNCH VEHICLE
PGMS / BOMB GUIDANCE KITS
UAV/AUV TECHNICAL ADVISORY
AVIONICS PKGS

[Kartik]

so the Python AAM is confirmed for the IN, but under evaluation for the IAF ? As for the Derby, there are confirmed reports that the IN signed up for it. Also, AFAIK, the Litening pod for the Mirages and Jags are already procured, so is it that the IAF is looking to build the set in India under licence? otherwise why is that under the JWG purview when its a deal that was already done? the IAF will require a couple of hundred Litenings more, since the Tejas, MMRCA and probably MiG-29K will be using it.

the IAF and IN could look at the Litening-II, which has a third generation FLIR, laser marker and software upgrades and was fielded first in 1999. they then tied up with Northrop Grumman and NG subsequently replaced the "320x256" FLIR with a larger more modern "640x512" FLIR for the LITENING ER. with this Litening ER pod, they extended the target detection range. The newest version, LITENING AT, is in production and was fielded in 2003. It further extends target detection and recognition ranges, improves the target coordinate generation accuracy, and provides multi-target cueing. if the MMRCA is American, expect this to be the LDP.

[Singha]

the Litening AT is the real name for the informal "Litening 4" ? I have heard
it can lase targets from 40,000ft up...well outside any form of manpads or small SAM and ideal for laser guided jdam/sdb type weapons.

[PaulJI]

the Litening AT is the real name for the informal "Litening 4" ? ...

It's got a bit confused by there being separate Rafael & Northrop Grumman lines of development.

Rafael produced Litening I. Rafael & Northrop Grumman jointly turned it into the Litening II for the USAF, fielded in 1999.

Northrop Grumman developed the Litening II it into the Litening ER, then AT (2003). AT is a Northrop Grumman product, not Rafael.

Rafael developed the Litening II into the Litening III, & has continued developing it. Rafael has a number of partners, e.g. Zeiss Optronik in Germany, which build the Litening III or variants of it. There is also the Reccelite recce pod based on Litening, with some Zeiss bits.

The RAAF bought Litening AT in 2005, & the RAF bought Litening EF (a variant of Litening III, & then described as the latest version) in 2006.

[Suraj]

Pardon my putting this article here, but being an infrequent poster in this forum I'm not sure what's a better thread:
Ajai Shukla: How much is the defence budget?

The defence allocation in the Budget that Mr Chidambaram presented on February 29 officially went up 10%, from Rs 96,000 crore last year to Rs 1,05,600 crore. But actual spending on defence had crossed the one lakh crore rupee Rubicon at least two years ago.

There is no apparent reason for India to understate its defence budget. No IMF conditions constrain defence spending; military expenditure remains well below the politically correct level of 3%. But India continues to camouflage what other comparable liberal democracies transparently show as defence spending. All figures in Rs.crore:

Code: Select all

Declared defence budget 	1,05,600
Nuclear forces 	         1,300
Paramilitary forces 	    7,632
Paramilitary housing 	   555
Border fencing 	         608
Border infrastructure 	  504
Pensions 	               15,564
Ministry of Defence 	    2,370
Actual defence budget 	  1,34,133

Factoring in these hidden expenses, India’s defence budget really amounts to Rs 1,34,133 crore, rather than the Rs 1,05,600 crore that the government declares; that is a little over 2.5% of India’s GDP.

While this article seeks to set the record straight, India remains a country where even experts, top government officials, and the legislature do nothing to debate defence expenditure and how to get more bang for the buck. Allocations that are a fraction of defence are discussed threadbare, but widespread ignorance of defence planning means that even an allocation of Rs 1,34,133 crore would probably have been passed by Parliament without a word of debate. In a land of holy cows, defence remains the most blessed of them.

[ashish raval]

Pardon my putting this article here, but being an infrequent poster in this forum I'm not sure what's a better thread:
Ajai Shukla: How much is the defence budget?

The defence allocation in the Budget that Mr Chidambaram presented on February 29 officially went up 10%, from Rs 96,000 crore last year to Rs 1,05,600 crore. But actual spending on defence had crossed the one lakh crore rupee Rubicon at least two years ago.

There is no apparent reason for India to understate its defence budget. No IMF conditions constrain defence spending; military expenditure remains well below the politically correct level of 3%. But India continues to camouflage what other comparable liberal democracies transparently show as defence spending. All figures in Rs.crore:

Code: Select all

Declared defence budget 	1,05,600
Nuclear forces 	         1,300
Paramilitary forces 	    7,632
Paramilitary housing 	   555
Border fencing 	         608
Border infrastructure 	  504
Pensions 	               15,564
Ministry of Defence 	    2,370
Actual defence budget 	  1,34,133

Factoring in these hidden expenses, India’s defence budget really amounts to Rs 1,34,133 crore, rather than the Rs 1,05,600 crore that the government declares; that is a little over 2.5% of India’s GDP.

While this article seeks to set the record straight, India remains a country where even experts, top government officials, and the legislature do nothing to debate defence expenditure and how to get more bang for the buck. Allocations that are a fraction of defence are discussed threadbare, but widespread ignorance of defence planning means that even an allocation of Rs 1,34,133 crore would probably have been passed by Parliament without a word of debate. In a land of holy cows, defence remains the most blessed of them.

Funny this guy is ! I really dont know a single govt. in the world which declares all its defense budget transparently that he is talking about. I am not even sure he has read any budgets of western world ever in his life !! Ignorance is a bliss here but i like the way he can confidently put wrong notions and theories and develops facts revolving it.

[putnanja]

Key purchases by Navy, Air Force on hold because Israeli firms named in FIR

...

Both Israeli Aerospace Industries and Rafael have been named in the FIR lodged on October 9, 2006. All this has put the following on hold:

• Navy’s plans of inducting 250 Barak missiles (proposal initiated in 2006 worth $120 million) for warship defence systems.

• Tenders for purchase of 1500 active protection systems for T-72 tanks worth $750 million, a deal in which IAI and Rafael could be frontrunners.

• Two deals to purchase aerial radars and anti air missiles, needed to fill vital gaps in air defence cover: Rafael was shortlisted for an estimated $325-million contract to provide the Spyder Air Defence System for IAF. Rafael signed an agreement with Tata Power last month for outsourcing maintenance work of the Spyder system.

• Contract for four Aerostat radars for detecting and monitoring low-flying aircraft.

The IAF has already inducted two of the aerial radars that were bought under a $145-m deal but its request for a follow-on order of four more systems is yet to be cleared by the CCS.

[alokgupt]

Key purchases by Navy, Air Force on hold because Israeli firms named in FIR

Kangress and Red terrorists hardly care about India's defence. They are too busy staying in power.

[ramana]

I posted in the previous version that when ever there is a possiblity of capability enhancement of the Indian military then UPA steps in with corruption probes and stalls the acquisiton. They wont catch the crooks but stall the whole process. Its their version of CBMs with Uncle to prevent takleef to TSP. No one can be for corruption you see.

[sunilUpa]

Dunno...any poosibility that these scandals could promote indigenous acquistion?

(I have a habit of seraching for a silverline even in darkest of monsoon clouds of Western Ghats)

[A Sharma]

Admiral Gorshkov: India reconciled to price hike

On Barak anti-missile system, the Naval Chief said that though the Navy needed more of them, it had built up enough stockpiles for the present.

[ramana]

I do too. But the fly in the ointment is the military will not accept local stuff if imported stuff is available. Then pols step in for bribes and the whole process gets stalled. What is needed is to get the military to work with the locals and get the stuff they want and not this you make we decide cycle where the pols and the importers get to benefit and the military remains stunted. Who cares if the stuff performs as per spec in tests if you never get the stuff for real use?

[Nayak]

Russia's Weapon Exporter Loses Market Standing

[quote]
Rosoboronexport is negotiating about the amount of penalty due to India for the delay in supplies of Il-38SD patrol jets. The analysts say Russia may lose the market of antisubmarine aircraft in that country, as the cheap price is hardly top priority for today’s India.
Rosoboronexport and India are to agree until the end of this month on the amount of penalty due to India for the late delivery of three patrol Il-38SDs. India accepted two jets that were upgraded by Ilyushin Co., including the installation of Sea Dragon (SD) system. But three jets are still in Russia, as Indian Navy refuses to take them.

According to the sources with Russia’s defense and industrial community, India has no more claims to the technical condition of the jets. “But India demands the payment of 5 percent of the contract budget (i.e. roughly $7.5 million), while we insist that the first two jets were supplied in line with the schedule,â€

[sunilUpa]

The Government has signed a Letter of Offer & Acceptance with the US Government for the procurement of six C-130J-30 aircraft for the Indian Air Force. The estimated value of the aircraft along with associated ground support equipment, ground handling equipment and the role equipment is 962,454,677 US$.

A letter of Offer & Acceptance has also been signed with the US Government for procurement of weapons and equipment for the Special Forces of the Army.

This information was given by the Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri Dharam Pal Sabharwal in Rajya Sabha today.

link

What equipments and weapons are being procured from US?

[NRao]

The six C-130Js?

[sunilUpa]

The six C-130Js?

No, it is apart from 6 C-130Js. The statement talks about two Letters of Offer & Acceptance, one for C-130 and another for weapons and equipements.

I remember reading a report that there is a list of about 70 different items to be procured for IA special forces and out of 70, 40 are from USA. C-130J is one of the 70.

Can't find any DSCA notification either.

[Gerard]

Acquisition after acquisition stopped by convenient corruption probes. Something stinks to high heaven here and it isn't dirty money.

[Baljeet]

Acquisition after acquisition stopped by convenient corruption probes. Something stinks to high heaven here and it isn't dirty money.

Gerard
What stinks is the attitude of senile, power hungry, egotistical maniacs aka "blind men of hindustaan". IMHO they are the descendants of Mir Jaffer, Jai Chand. They all want to be PM's so their names will be taught in history books.

[NRao]

The six C-130Js?

No, it is apart from 6 C-130Js. The statement talks about two Letters of Offer & Acceptance, one for C-130 and another for weapons and equipements.

I remember reading a report that there is a list of about 70 different items to be procured for IA special forces and out of 70, 40 are from USA. C-130J is one of the 70.

Can't find any DSCA notification either.

You are right. I did google and found some of the articles.

However, what strikes me is (this from a 2002 article) "The US will provide India with special forces equipment, including unmanned aerial vehicles and ground sensors, enabling inter-operability between the special forces of the two countries, Defence Secretary Yogendra Narain said on Friday. "

Interops of Sp ops!!!!

[NRao]

As FYI:

2002 (DATED) :: US to provide India with special forces equipment

2006 :: Elite special forces still a distant dream:

The Army had identified a list of around 40 specialised items to augment the capabilities of the special forces, tasked with conducting clandestine and "irregular" warfare deep behind enemy lines, under an initial Rs 700 crore plan.

This included weaponry like TAR-21 Tavor assault rifles and M4A1 carbines, all-terrain multi-utility vehicles and GPS navigation systems, modular acquisition devices and laser range-finders, high-frequency communication sets and combat free-fall parachutes, among other equipment, from countries like the US, Israel, France and Sweden.

"But procurement roadblocks continue to play the devil. Raw courage and top physical fitness of our special forces is just not enough. They need state-of-the-art equipment," said an officer.

From the US alone, for instance, 19 of the 40 identified items are to be sourced at a cost of around Rs 150 crore.

These 20 items include M4A1 carbines — the preferred weapon of the US Army special forces and the Navy SEALS for close-quarter combat — underwater digital cameras, vehicular and underwater GPS, remote detonation equipment, kayaks, para-motors, outboard motors and the like.

"Though these items are mainly being procured under the fast-track FMS (foreign military sales) programme of the US, our special forces are yet to get them even after two years," the officer added.

[Singha]

was Denel shitcanned because they had paid the appropriate fees to NDA but
rejected another round of fees for UPA ?

[asprinzl]

Acquisition after acquisition stopped by convenient corruption probes. Something stinks to high heaven here and it isn't dirty money.

Ofcourse it is dirty. In fact, if there is government to government agreement for weapons transactions why would there be a need for arms dealers. Take for example the Barak missiles. Why would there be a need for arms dealers? I thought it was a government to government deal. Some real patriotic ba$tards indeed.
Avram

[srai]

Russian Corporation Irkut Pulls Out of Multirole Transport Aircraft Project; HAL Seeks Foreign Partners


Time to switch partnership to Brazilian Embraer:

EMBRAER HAS MILITARY TRANSPORT AIRCRAFT UNDER STUDY



[quote]
New project will perform refueling, medical evacuations, and other missions

São José dos Campos, April 19, 2007 – Embraer confirmed, at a press conference held today, during Latin America Aero & Defense (LAAD), in Rio de Janeiro, that it has been studying the possible development of a military transport aircraft. If it is actually launched, the EMBRAER C-390, as it is called, will be the heaviest airplane ever produced by the Company and will be able to transport up to 19 tons (41,888 pounds) of cargo.

The new project will incorporate a number of technological solutions developed for the successful EMBRAER 190 commercial jet. As a medium-sized military transport jet, the EMBRAER C-390 will have an ample cabin, equipped with a rear ramp for transporting a wide range of types of cargo, including wheeled armored vehicles, and will have the most modern loading and unloading systems.

The new jet may be refueled in flight, as well as be used to refuel other aircraft, in flight and on the ground. The cargo cabin will allow configurations for transporting the wounded or sick, on Medical Evacuation (MEDEVAC) missions. The technical advances of the EMBRAER C-390 include fly-by-wire, which lowers the work load of pilots, with the resulting increased safety, and operating on short and unpaved runways, without the need of ground support.

“Our analyses indicate that there is a potential market for this type of aircraft worldwide, especially to substitute older models that will reach the end of their useful life over the coming decade,â€

[shyamd]

x post:

About the Mirage Upgrade deal:
Elbit tried its hardest before, to win the deal. But now GOI gave the contract to the french because Elbit told the French it would leave the reconditioning of engines and flight electronics to them, on condition that Elbit could supply new missiles and reconnaissance pods for the fighters, where these contracts are far more lucrative than the simple refurbishment work. Hence why the deal was signed.

[Victor]

I simply fail to understand why we can't put together the MTA ourselves after almost half a century of building advanced aircraft both from scratch and under license. Can we not buy off the shelf what we need, like engines and avionics? We need to get past this friggin "joint venture" stuff asap because it is about time we see what is plain to everyone else--NOBODY is keen to help us do it ourselves and do themselves out of business. It's a stupid mindset.

[PaulJI]

I simply fail to understand why we can't put together the MTA ourselves after almost half a century of building advanced aircraft both from scratch and under license. Can we not buy off the shelf what we need, like engines and avionics? We need to get past this friggin "joint venture" stuff asap because it is about time we see what is plain to everyone else--NOBODY is keen to help us do it ourselves and do themselves out of business. It's a stupid mindset.

I think one of Indias biggest problems is that everything in aerospace is a government matter. You need Indian companies in it trying to make money by making & selling stuff, & the government to restrict itself to being a customer. Then there will always be pressure to develop & build products which will sell. That should speed up development, cut costs, and (because India is a relatively cheap place to design, develop & build) increase local content.

[Singha]

so we wasted a decade on the MTA proj only to be told the bride had eloped.

Great.

anybody with half of a goat brain would pull out of the pakfa asap.

[ragupta]

MTA cancelled - Blessing in Disguise.

Lets work with Embraer and get the C-390 plus the production license for 145/170/190 - that will be great. I think float a joint company between HAL/Embraer/One private player in India and GOI 25% stake each, transfer all the transport business slowly to this company. Dornier, HS-748 etc.

[sum]

Lets work with Embraer and get the C-390 plus the production license for 145/170/190 - that will be great. I think float a joint company between HAL/Embraer/One private player in India and GOI 25% stake each, transfer all the transport business slowly to this company. Dornier, HS-748 etc.

All thsi is fine thinking but by the time the govt decides on this,the C390 may be closing its production lines!!!!!
Going by the procurement speeds these days, we are screwed....

[Victor]

The govt urgently needs to get out of the way with non-sensitive development projects like medium transport planes. If we floated a local tender for 200 MTAs among a group of our top companies, I'm confident we will see them operational in 5 years. Let them figure out how, where and what to get. Here we are building sophisticated stuff like IRBMs, supercomputers, nuclear subs, aircraft carriers, Nanos and we get latkofied over a stupid transport plane. There should be hell to pay for the morons who got us here.

[PaulJI]

The govt urgently needs to get out of the way with non-sensitive development projects like medium transport planes. If we floated a local tender for 200 MTAs among a group of our top companies, I'm confident we will see them operational in 5 years. Let them figure out how, where and what to get. ....

Sounds like good thinking to me. If they want to offer a locally-built version of a foreign design, fine: they'll learn how to build it & find local suppliers for as many parts as possible, & the fact that they're building it will encourage more firms to try to get into the components market. What you do is something akin to the US tanker contract. You state that prime contractors, the firms the government signs the contracts with, have to be Indian, & a certain percentage of value added has to be in India, but leave the bidders free to make deals with foreign suppliers & work out their own ways of making up the indigenous content. Initially, it'll be the assembly work, but the winning bidder will want to add more value locally for their own reasons, which happily will coincide with the governments aims in this area. I think it'd be a better way of encouraging indigenous industrial capacity than making deals with foreign firms & demanding offsets.

[sunilUpa]

Indo-Russian multi-role transport aircraft (MTA) JV heads for trouble as Irkut backs off news

Same story as reported by India-Defence. Six years wasted if accurate. When will the gov. wake up?

[sombhat]

Same story as reported by India-Defence. Six years wasted if accurate. When will the gov. wake up?

We have only 9 SHars left, and the govt. is still sleeping. How do you expect it to wake up when we still have the An32s flying. Let them die, and then let the Il 76s die, and then we shall see.

And dont worry, we are getting new aircraft, are we not? What about the new VIP jets and choppers for the Mantris, so our pilots don't loose their jobs.

[sohamn]

edited.

[sohamn]

This is really a blessing in disguise. Now the goverment will think twice before making any deals with the russians. We could have a JV with Boeing/Airbus/Embraer and come up with a new or modified existing aircraft. I hope the PAK-FA deal dosen't come up with a similar end. High time we start funding the MCA program.

[Himanshu]

Some nice to know stuff that Strategic Electronics Division of TATA Power works on..

http://www.tpcsed.com/air.htm

[Tilak]

Russia, India to sign 8.5 mln usd contract to design military transport plane
03.20.08, 5:36 AM ET

MOSCOW (Thomson Financial) - Russia and India will sign an 8.5 mln usd contract to start work on the design of a new military transport aircraft in April, MAK Ilyushin general director Viktor Livanov told the Kommersant daily.

He added that it will cost about 600 mln usd to launch serial production of the aircraft, with each side providing half of the projected costs.

Test flights of the plane could begin in 2013, he added.