Jaipur Blasts

[sanjaychoudhry]

India would raise the issue of terrorism at the forthcoming Indo-Pak Foreign Ministers meeting.

I am sure with this hard-hitting, almost machievellian step by Mr. Constable, the Lakshar-e-Toiba cadres will be peeing in their salwars.

[satyarthi]

Jaipur blasts act of cowardice, says Patil

Aha! Spoken from experience, I suppose!

"Those who have done this surely have a design," the Home Minister told mediapersons

Designer bombs. Handmade in India by traditional craftsmen. Subsidized by Indian home ministry.

[rsingh]

Something is telling to my dirty mind that
e-mail
guru-alhindi_jaipur@yahoo.co.uk
is to be followed by

guru-alhindi_agra@yahoo.co.uk
guru-alhindi_banglore@yahoo.co.uk
guru-alhindi_chandigarh@yahoo.co.uk

Is there any way of following such leads to some fruitful ending?

[CRamS]

India would raise the issue of terrorism at the forthcoming Indo-Pak Foreign Ministers meeting.

Thoo. To even think that this stinker constable is the PM of India is an abomination.

[hnair]

Something is telling to my dirty mind that
e-mail
guru-alhindi_jaipur@yahoo.co.uk
is to be followed by

guru-alhindi_agra@yahoo.co.uk
guru-alhindi_banglore@yahoo.co.uk
guru-alhindi_chandigarh@yahoo.co.uk

Is there any way of following such leads to some fruitful ending?

Register those names before somebody sitting in Rawalpindi does. That is the only fruitful ending in the open source world. Never thought that "stability in Pak and a democratic figleaf for American aid" will come down to such small victories for an Indian citizen

This is going to get more uglier, once the RAPEs starts getting more play space from their controllers and starts organizing houbara hunts for General Patreaus, a prospective "Super Zinni".

[Mahendra]

R Singhji

I would advise you to refrain from registering those IDs( if at all you plan to) you would only draw attention to yourself and also re-inforce Sh!t Raj Patil's foreign hand theory. It is not beyond this napunsak govt to catch hold of an innocent hindu/sikh/parsee/scientologist and blame him for the attack.

[hnair]

Oops - apologies if my post did not convey the intended sarcasm from a cynic. Thanks Vaman-saar for pointing that out. Am sure rsingh-ji would not be taking my post literally.

[SwamyG]

I thought exactly what hnair sarcastically alluded to - creating such ids to prevent them from getting hold of those ids. Then I thought exactly what Vaman thought - attracting attention But if that is true, then next time somebody creates a id of that nature, wouldn't authorities zoom into them?
Would Yahoo work with Indian Intelli and communicate anytime somebody creates a similar id?
Unless the IP address is spoofed, authorities already know where that email came from.

[Arun_S]

Cross posting:

Ramana wrote

M^2, One flaw in your analysis is the fact that the US as the leader of the Anglo-Saxon groups has colluded with Islamists to attack/constrain India. Even now its the US support of TSP that keeps India from retaliating with full fury. Every Islamist extremist takes succor in the fact that when the chips are down the Anglo-Saxon West will bail them out no matter where they are facing defeat. I am afraid you haven't understood the issues at their full depth.

very very true. Islamists complain today , but the fact is, for the greater part of the last 300 years the anglo-saxons have pandered to their whims. the salaam culture for the gora sahib was very much there among the numayindes and vice versa.

the anglo-saxons have through time undermined more modern and progressive islamic formations whether societal or political. it has always propped up the most dirigiste and abhorrent fundamentalists against more forward looking islamic propositions.
modern Turkey is one exception , but i consider that more a function of the soviet threat and Ataturk's acumen than anything else.

Look at this news repost in USA. Where the victims of the Jaipur terrorists attack are faceless Indian people, the only face and name in this story is a Muslim tourist who is a victim of the attack.

The spin is very clear:
1.) This terror attack was not against Hindues,

2.) It hids the central fact of news reporting that great majority of the people killed were Hindues. Creates a spin that Hindues were not killed, or their killing is irrelevant..

This news report:
A) Hides Islamic perpetrators,
B.) Makes Muslim citizens as the victim,
C) Make Hindus the faceless creatures who are designed by Allaah to be be killed & erased.

San Jose Mercury Newspaper: Bombings terrorize Indian cities

Blasts spur fear of religious violence
By Muneeza Naqvi
Associated Press 05/15/2008

JAIPUR, India - The seven bombs that tore through this historic city ripped apart Sumana Khan's life, killing her mother and two aunts and leaving the 4-year-old girl with a broken arm, a fractured leg and shrapnel embedded in her back.

Lying in a crowded hospital Wednesday, Khan and the nearly 200 other wounded were in some ways among the lucky - they survived. Eighty others became the latest deaths in a seemingly endless series of bombings that have terrorized Indian cities in recent years.

Most attacks, like Tuesday's in Jaipur, have hit crowded markets, packed temples, congested trains, mosques filled with worshipers. With authorities repeatedly blaming Islamists for the bombings, each has brought fears of fresh violence between India's Hindu majority and its sizable Muslim minority.

Soon after the attack, officials suggested that blame would eventually fall on Pakistan and the Islamist groups that India accuses its neighbor of backing.

Authorities moved quickly Wednesday to prevent any retaliatory bloodshed, imposing a curfew in Jaipur's walled old city, where all the explosions took place, and deploying police in force.

The result was empty streets and shuttered stores in a city known for its pink-hued palaces and ornate jewelry.

But by evening, the curfew was lifted and people flocked onto the streets, buying groceries and going to prayers, saying they were determined to carry on with life.

"We have nothing to fear," said Vijendra Kumar Sharma, 39, a businessman. "The people in this city are very peace loving; this is the work of outsiders."

When the bombs went off, Sumana Khan's family was shopping while on vacation in Jaipur where they were visiting relatives of her mother.

"The entire family was wiped out," said an inconsolable Liaqat Khan, Sumana's grandfather, his body wracked with sobs as he was being driven home from a cemetery where his three daughters were buried Wednesday morning.

Sumana didn't even get to see her mother buried. She was lying in the Sawai Man Singh hospital with a drip hooked to her arm and bandages all over her small body.

"She's so traumatized that she hasn't said a word all day," said Mohammed Iqbal, an uncle who was taking care of her at the hospital while her father, who was not with the family during the blast, attended the funeral.

"Last night, she kept asking for her mother, but we haven't told her she is dead," Iqbal said.

Police in Jaipur had questioned nearly a dozen people without making any arrests. However, police released a sketch of a man in his early 20s who was believed to have bought bicycles used in the attacks.

Most of the bombs were placed in bags left on bicycles, and investigators traced them all to two shops in Jaipur's old city, Inspector General of Police Pankaj Singh said.

Could BRFites please write to Associated press and Mercury News on this twisted report.

[shiv]

Look at this news repost in USA. Where the victims of the Jaipur terrorists attack are faceless Indian people, the only face and name in this story is a Muslim tourist who is a victim of the attack.

The spin is very clear:
1.) This terror attack was not against Hindues,

2.) It hids the central fact of news reporting that great majority of the people killed were Hindues. Creates a spin that Hindues were not killed, or their killing is irrelevant..

This news report:
A) Hides Islamic perpetrators,
B.) Makes Muslim citizens as the victim,
C) Make Hindus the faceless creatures who are designed by Allaah to be be killed & erased.

Don't fight this, but use it to your advantage.

By hollering out loud " Boo Hoo More of X was killed and fewer of Y, therefore you should feel sympathy for X and not Y" we are diverting the attention away from the fact that it was Islam that did the killing in the first place.

In any mass murder - there is no sense in mourning one "more important" killed person and not mourning one "less important" killed person.

Mourn them all - but concentrate on the murderer. The murderer goes scot free as we dance like monkeys claiming more Hindu dead and blaming some idiot reporter and some faceless conspiracy. This is completely wrong.

The murderer is the religion of Mohammad, whose minions are trying to attack Hindus but his murderous followers are too stupid to kill only Hindus - they kill Muslims as well.

Muslims have a responsibility to recognize that their faith actively encourages mass murder in the name of Islam. How about spreading that message boldly rather than howling about some idiotic reports?

Stop mourning. Start fighting. Fight where you can contribute. Islam is responsible for these murders. DO NOT waste time and semen on wasteful laments.

[vsudhir]

Mourn them all - but concentrate on the murderer. The murderer goes scot free as we dance like monkeys claiming more Hindu dead and blaming some idiot reporter and some faceless conspiracy. This is completely wrong.

The murderer is the religion of Mohammad, whose minions are trying to attack Hindus but his murderous followers are too stupid to kill only Hindus - they kill Muslims as well.

Muslims have a responsibility to recognize that their faith actively encourages mass murder in the name of Islam. How about spreading that message boldly rather than howling about some idiotic reports?

The willingness of aam aadmi (in fact everyone, except governments) to do just that seems to go up in small increments with each bum blast.

These savage attacks have the perverse (for the sickular brigade) fallout of weakening the psecs, the appeasers, the marxists and their minions.

I do hope the jihadists overplay their hand and strike prematurely. If they knew what was good for them, they wouldn't so blatantly unite the clueless yindoo by attacking so openly, even the SDRE can't be in denial any longer.

But for Godhra and its aftermath, what were the chances Gujrat would have changed forever the way it did, forcing everyone and his uncle to take sides in the debate? But for babri and the mumbai blasts, is it anyone's case that the mumbai underworld would shift base to karachi? It forced the establishment to act, finally.

Similarly, by targetting mainstream urban India, the terrorists might just polarize and radicalize the middle class to get off its backside and vote with its feet. It would and should force them to take a side in the increasingly widening nationalist vs psec divide.

Or so I hope.

It seems to me to be about the only silver lining in an otherwise dark chapter.

JMTs etc.
/Have a nice day, all.

[adiank]

KNOW ISLAM -----> NO PEACE
NO ISLAM ===============> KNOW PEACE

[Rishi]

When the bomb went off in Jaipur, at 19:25 on Tuesday, I was in Amritsar, hundreds of miles to the north, having Sikhism explained to me by Maninder Singh, a Rajasthani (of which more in a couple of days). What surprised me, although it shouldn't have, is that life went on as it did before. The streets thronged, while everyones' faces reamined glued to the cricket. My mind wandered to the motherland. If a bomb like the one in Jaipur went off in Beer-Sheva (another desert city), the whole country would be on the phone, checking that their loved ones were OK. Broadcast of a basketball match would be interrupte with live reports from the scene. Stupidly, I expected to see something similar in India. But then (how could I forget?), this is a land of over one billion souls, while Israel is home to a mere seven million.

There's a more interesting point to be made, though. Terrorism - in its rational form - is successful only if it can impact on the civilian population, to change their behaviour enough in order to draw concessions from the government. In a country the size of India this is a near-impossibility. To use the callous language of risk assessment, sixty dead in India is but a statistic. Granted, this was an attack on a tourist area (albeit in low season), but it is clear that none of the occasional bomb attacks here in the last year have affected the country's routine. From my brief experience of the travel system here, it is clear that there are many soft targets. But it is hardly worthwhile for the government to strengthen security to the degree that has been done in Israel, for example. This - from the amoral perspective of rational political considerations - is what makes terrorism in India even more inexplicable than elsewhere, and - I think - goes a long way to explain why th authorities have had such trouble solving similar cases in the past.

http://wanderingsatlan.blogspot.com/200 ... aipur.html

Alex Stien is a Guardian Jurno on an India Yatra post his IDF stint

[vsudhir]

Probe tracks HuJI trail, 35 Bangladeshis are detained by Rajasthan Police

Well, well..... if momentum builds towards identifying and isolating BD muslims in India's urban ghettos, then something good would have come off the blasts, after all.

The admission of no-breakthrough-yet came even as police in Jaipur detained 35 Bangladeshis for questioning. Clearly, the police was probing the possible involvement of the HuJI, a terror group based in Bangladesh.

Its the state police acting, so no thx to dilli sarkar.

If my hypothesis is right, then such states that do take strong action against likely suspects will naturally see a dropoff in terror attacks simply because the local logistics and support network required would become harder to keep watertight.

[quote]Sources said it is suspected that a group of 18-20 people were involved in the process of procuring explosives, materials and execution of the attack. The sources said that such a big attack could not have been carried out without local support.

“We believe that the entire thing was planned about four months ago and an advance reconnaissance was done at that time. The enactment of the final plan began 3-4 days before the blasts when cycles, cloth to wrap the bombs and ball bearings are believed to have been purchased,â€

[svinayak]

[Karan Dixit]

Look at this news repost in USA. Where the victims of the Jaipur terrorists attack are faceless Indian people, the only face and name in this story is a Muslim tourist who is a victim of the attack.

The spin is very clear:
1.) This terror attack was not against Hindues,

2.) It hids the central fact of news reporting that great majority of the people killed were Hindues. Creates a spin that Hindues were not killed, or their killing is irrelevant..

This news report:
A) Hides Islamic perpetrators,
B.) Makes Muslim citizens as the victim,
C) Make Hindus the faceless creatures who are designed by Allaah to be be killed & erased.

Don't fight this, but use it to your advantage.

By hollering out loud " Boo Hoo More of X was killed and fewer of Y, therefore you should feel sympathy for X and not Y" we are diverting the attention away from the fact that it was Islam that did the killing in the first place.

In any mass murder - there is no sense in mourning one "more important" killed person and not mourning one "less important" killed person.

Mourn them all - but concentrate on the murderer. The murderer goes scot free as we dance like monkeys claiming more Hindu dead and blaming some idiot reporter and some faceless conspiracy. This is completely wrong.

The murderer is the religion of Mohammad, whose minions are trying to attack Hindus but his murderous followers are too stupid to kill only Hindus - they kill Muslims as well.

Muslims have a responsibility to recognize that their faith actively encourages mass murder in the name of Islam. How about spreading that message boldly rather than howling about some idiotic reports?

Stop mourning. Start fighting. Fight where you can contribute. Islam is responsible for these murders. DO NOT waste time and semen on wasteful laments.

Very well said Shiv.

Just fight these blood thirsty monsters every which way you can. F**k them every opportunity you can get. In a little way or in a big way. Does not matter. Just f**k them. This should be our reason for being.

I would not rule out China's hand in it.

[sauravjha]

Mr Jha please stop posting like a typical person from bihar who is not at all aware of the ground realities of Maharashtra and mumbai in particular.

Even a small child will tell you that you fill up too much air in a balloon and it will burst. As for Bal Thackeray let me tell you had it not been for him the pigs of religion of peace would have wreaked havoc during the nineties riots.He is the only person they are scared of in mumbai..yes he is not without flaws..I dont like seeing innocent poor people being bashed up in the streets..and none of most maharastrians do...but the problem is much more complex and i dont think its the right place to post about it ..besides in your current state of biased mind i think its beyond your understanding..

he he . I was actually born in mumbai and my family had a house in Bhandup.


Mr G cut the crap .if you are on Bharat rakshak be a Bhartiya and stop this regional BS.

as far as your understanding is concerned, less said the better. bal thackeray's actions are detrimental not only to the nation but to Maharashtra itself . if there is a flight of cheap labour from maharashtra , it's Maharashtra which is going to lose.


and please do not try to hide behind "the issues are complex onlee'. the issue is clear , you are a prejudiced person and you are prejudiced at many levels.

.yes he is not without flaws..

are you dating him?
sorry , could not resist.

[Karan Dixit]

Lord Buddha!

I feel bad about even mentioning Shiv Sena. I simply needed an example to illustrate my point and I used Shiv Sena as an example.

Let us focus oh how we can hit the enemy back.

I think time has come when Indians should start crossing into Pakiland/BDesh in the dark night.

[sauravjha]

Look at this news repost in USA. Where the victims of the Jaipur terrorists attack are faceless Indian people, the only face and name in this story is a Muslim tourist who is a victim of the attack.

The spin is very clear:
1.) This terror attack was not against Hindues,

2.) It hids the central fact of news reporting that great majority of the people killed were Hindues. Creates a spin that Hindues were not killed, or their killing is irrelevant..

This news report:
A) Hides Islamic perpetrators,
B.) Makes Muslim citizens as the victim,
C) Make Hindus the faceless creatures who are designed by Allaah to be be killed & erased.

oh yes. there is a reason for this also .Islamists have always been eager to give interviews to the Christian Amanpoors of the world. despite the prophet banning television prospectively , mullahs continue to be extremely media savvy.

[Karan Dixit]

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/may/16rajblast2.htm

(What are these BDeshis doing in Jaipur? Why can't they be deported to BDesh?

Let us assume that BDeshi government would say that these people are not BDeshis. In that case, we can create some sort of barb wired high security prison right on the border with BDesh to contain these BDeshis instead of letting them roam all over India. )

[Karan Dixit]

We are in the middle of war, says Raje


link

[Sumeet]

Ajay Sahani has confirmed in two separate interviews one to NDTV and another to IBN that between 2004 and May 2008 Indian agencies have negated 98 islamist terror modules various parts of India outside J&K.

So its not that govt. and agencies have been a complete failure. But more needs to be done in terms of expanding their strength, centralizing them, and making new laws.

[Raju]

Something is telling to my dirty mind that
e-mail
guru-alhindi_jaipur@yahoo.co.uk
is to be followed by

guru-alhindi_agra@yahoo.co.uk
guru-alhindi_banglore@yahoo.co.uk
guru-alhindi_chandigarh@yahoo.co.uk

Is there any way of following such leads to some fruitful ending?

Something tells me that before that happens, Pakistan would cease to exist. Have faith !

[Singha]

name any indian metro and I am sure the agencies have foiled quite a few
plots over the years but very quietly because the quality of proof the indian
legal system demands (and the set of psecs in the media & political
circles) make it impossible to obtain convictions swiftly and put them away.

so its a tata sumo ride into some jungle followed by the other means of
settling the issue.

no publicity can be sought for such success, but the indian law abiding
public needs to be thankful.

the jihadis are careful not to target the ruling party of the day because
then political directive might come to go in harder and start wiping out
even 2nd rung types and sympathizers.

[Avarachan]

The murderer is the religion of Mohammad, whose minions are trying to attack Hindus but his murderous followers are too stupid to kill only Hindus - they kill Muslims as well.

Muslims have a responsibility to recognize that their faith actively encourages mass murder in the name of Islam. How about spreading that message boldly rather than howling about some idiotic reports?

Stop mourning. Start fighting. Fight where you can contribute. Islam is responsible for these murders. DO NOT waste time and semen on wasteful laments.

Shiv, great post. The problem is Islam, and Indians will continue to be murdered as long as we try to ignore that fact.

This might not be popular to say on BRF, but I'm a Christian (Indian Orthodox), and every Muslim I meet, I try (eventually) to convert. Apart from the issue of our very national survival, I think everyone can view it as a spiritual responsibility: how could you let someone live his whole life believing in such a monstrous lie, and not even discuss the issue with him?

I know Hindus, in general, don't like the idea of conversion: but I would ask everyone to think deeply as to what the alternative is. There are many people who are Muslim simply because their families are Muslim and no one else is willing to challenge them on it.

Here's how to do it. Ask a general question like, "What do you think about jihad?" When a Muslim gives a reasonable response (i.e., that he doesn't believe in it), ask, "Well, then, why do you remain a Muslim?"

Here's how Coptic Orthodox priest Fr. Zakaria Botros (who has been named Islam's "Public Enemy #1") does it:

___

A third reason for Botros’s success is that his polemical technique has proven irrefutable. Each of his episodes has a theme — from the pressing to the esoteric — often expressed as a question (e.g., “Is jihad an obligation for all Muslims?â€

[Rishi]

Claymore Mine alert?

Link

The cops said that the ball bearings were of a "particularly damaging variety" and were placed in a "curve" in such a way that when the bomb exploded the shrapnel burst out ahead, and not up, causing maximum damage till close to 100 feet.

[sauravjha]

oh so great, let's turn all our muslim population into orthodox and other forms of Christianity and the murder will stop. yeah right. we'll soon end up being the 51st state of America.

stop this nonsensical attempt at peddling Evangelism .

[manish singh]

I know Hindus, in general, don't like the idea of conversion: but I would ask everyone to think deeply as to what the alternative is.

I know Hindus, in general, don't dislike the idea of reconversion to Hinduism: of all fellow bharatvasis lost to islam and christianity.

In any case, whats the point of converting a person from one anti-hindu religion to another anti-hindu religion. OT. Will stop now.

[sauravjha]

Many Western critics fail to appreciate that, to disempower radical Islam, something theocentric and spiritually satisfying — not secularism, democracy, capitalism, materialism, feminism, etc. — must be offered in its place. The truths of one religion can only be challenged and supplanted by the truths of another. And so Father Zakaria Botros has been fighting fire with fire.

if they are indeed truths, then what is the need to substitute them . the need arises when one lie needs to take the place of another. Ironically both lies share their source.

[Nayak]

http://www.mynews.in/fullstory.aspx?storyid=4988

In same manner, Jaipur also has its own 'mini-Bangladesh'. This part of the city is Bagrana. And after the blasts, the Rajasthan police have turned their attention towards this transit camp mostly comprising Bangladeshi migrants.



Bagrana lies eight km from Jaipur city on the Agra highway, is teeming with police vehicles. The police now focus on Bagrana because initial investigations indicated that one of the perpetrators, who bought a cycle used in the blast, spoke Hindi with a Bengali accent.



A police team arrived on Thursday morning and began checking the credentials of those in the basti. We have been asked to find out if any new person has come here. We have a door-to-door checking with the help of photo IDs. Those whose names are not on our records will be taken for questioning," Jeevan Ram Bishnoi, the Deputy Superintendent of Police, Jaipur rural, said.



The photo IDs he is talking about are the ones taken five years ago, when a large number of Bangladeshi migrants were relocated here from inside the city. Till then they were living in shanties outside the Jaipur railway station. The locals protested the presence of encroachment within the city and they were moved to Bagrana.



"Three months before we moved, the authorities came to us and asked what we lacked. We said we did not have a roof over our heads and there was no electricity. The authorities promised to give us both if we relocated en masse to Bagrana. True to their word, they provided us kuchcha houses and electricity supply," Mohammed Dabloo Miyan, a Bangladeshi who migrated to India 17 years ago, said.



Though officially, the Bagrana transit camp has 5000 people, many say the number may be high. But the policemen are not deterred. "Our brief is to check everyone's credentials and find out if anyone had come here recently, including those who were visiting relatives," Bishnoi said as his men went from hut to hut with a community leader in tow.



Though the police are here only after the blasts, the intelligence department has always had its ears to the ground. The CID even has a dedicated junior officer tending to the basti. "I have been monitoring this place for two years. It is a pain to keep tab of what is happening in such a huge population, especially when people are very reluctant to help," the officer, who did not want to be named, said.



Explaining how it is difficult to keep a tab on new entrants, he said: "Only three days ago, we found out that a new family had come in. Since I know the people, I identified the girl as someone from the basti who had left it long time ago. She has now returned. We had to detain her anyway since she is an illegal immigrant and technically she has come here only now. Like this there are so many people who keep going out and coming in all the time. It is really difficult to keep a tab."The officer, however, claimed that the place is a hotbed of criminals.



"Most drug peddlers in Jaipur are from here. They are also involved in many other criminal activities," he said, adding that the police even arrested a man who allegedly gone to Pakistan for six months for arms training. "This guy came here one day and my sources alerted me to it. When we picked him up and interrogated him, we found out that he had just returned from Pakistan and had missed the phone number of the contact he was to get in touch here for an operation. That time, a major attack was foiled," he said.



Another reason that makes it tough for the police and other agencies to monitor the transit camp is the disunity within the community. "The camp consists of both Bangladeshis and Bengali people. The two groups are always at each other's throats. The Bangladeshi camp is a closed group and they never give out any information," he said. Residents, however, deny such charges.



"There are mostly rag pickers, rickshaw pullers and labourers. There might be one or two people who do wrong. But to blame the entire basti for that is not right," one of the residents said. They also said the police never harass them and it was only after the blasts that they were asked not to venture out of the basti.



"But then, there was a curfew in town also. I strongly believe if you have not done any wrong, nobody will harm you. I saw a youngster being picked up from the basti and taken to police station in connection with a crime. This boy was a labourer and he was innocent."



"The moment a senior officer came in, he took one look at him and told the interrogators that he cannot be a culprit. "Look at his face. He wouldn't be involved," that is the what the officer said. But the interrogators were not convinced and they thoroughly questioned him before realizing he was innocent and they let him off," Dabloo Miyan said.



Beyond everything, at least for early settlers like him, India is like a motherland. "We won't go back to Bangladesh even if we are offered a comfortable life there. It is India that gave us a chance to earn a livelihood when there was nothing in Bangladesh and we will live here."



"All my six children were born here and I want to see them grow up here and do well for themselves," he said.

© 2007 mynews.in

We are in deep doo-doo bhailog.

[Raju]

What Avarachan means to infer is that Orthodox Christianity is not necessarily anti-Indian as the Baptist-Pentecostal-Catholic types who have clearly spelled out allegiance to US-Vatican (Rome).

What we are doing here is clubbing all kinds of Christianity under one umbrella, so that they can all unite and fight against us. Just like we have clubbed all kinds of IM under one umbrella so that they can all unite against us. Does this work to our advantage ?

[Raju]

The truths of one religion can only be challenged and supplanted by the truths of another. And so Father Zakaria Botros has been fighting fire with fire.

Actually there are other ways out as well, which will facilitate a seamless transition if that is what you refer. It was discussed long ago on this very forum on an iteration of the Islamist threads.

Hindu mythology has some good proof that on basis of historical record, it could well be a precursor to Abrahamic faiths.

[sauravjha]

I am the most vocal critic of homogenisation on this forum . However Evangelism and Islamism are ideologies and that is what I am contesting here.


As far as the orthodox church is concerned , make no mistake they consider Hinduism a religion of darkness. who do you think opposed Ford Juniors Hindu center at Moscow?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/oc ... patonwalsh

the Indian orthodox church has deep links with their counterparts in Greece , Russia, Georgia, wherever.

[Raju]

Eastern Orthodox Church has various sub groups underneath like Russian Orthodox, greek orthodox, Indian Orthodox. Not all of it is equal poison.

there is a discussion on this in India Forum.

[Rishi]

there is a discussion on this in India Forum.

Yes please. Dont derail this thread....

[Sumeet]

Jaipur Blasts: No Unique Signature - International Terrorism Monitor---Paper No. 391

The serial blasts in Jaipur on May 13, 2008, which killed about 60 innocent civilians, have many general characteristics, which are common to many terrorist organisations in South Asia. Among important examples of such characteristics are the use of bicycles to plant improvised explosive devices (IED) in crowded places and mixing projectiles such as the ball-bearings of cycles with the explosive.

2. Bicycles as carriers of IEDs have often been used by different terrorist groups since the jihad against the Soviet troops in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Jihadi as well as non-jihadi groups have been using cycles. Among the non-jihadi oprganisations which use bicycle bombs is the United Liberation Front of Assam (ULFA).

3. The greatest advantage of bicycles for terrorists is that they are used by millions of people and unattended bicycles left in crowded places do not attract suspicion. Cycles are also used under certain other circumstances---- when the terrorist organisation has only limited funds, when it has no capability for stealing cars and motor-cycles and having them driven to the targeted place and when it wants to use an unconscious cut-out for having the IED reached to the spot without using its own cadres for this purpose. The ULFA uses such cut-outs for having cycles fitted with IEDs left in crowded areas for which they are paid. In this manner, the cadres of the ULFA escape identification and arrest.

4. Ball-bearings are also often used to increase the lethality of the explosive. The LTTE has been using them for nearly 20 years now. When the Sri Lankan authorities imposed severe restrictions on the sale of ball-bearings in the Tamil areas, the LTTE started smuggling them in sackfuls from Tamil Nadu. By mixing ball-bearings with the explosive, one can not only increase the lethality of the IED, but one can also economise on the use of the explosive. A small quantity of explosive can cause a large number of casualties if mixed with ball-bearings and other projectiles. By mixing ball-bearings, a low-intensity explosive can be made to cause a high-intensity killer effect.

5. The IEDs at Jaipur were activated by mechanical timers. According to published details of one IED, which failed to explode, the timing mechanism was an ordinary clock. This was similar to the modus operandi of the Khalistani terrorists in Punjab in the 1980s. The new trend among jihadi organisations in other countries has been to use the alarm mechanism of the mobile telephones for timing an IED. This was apparently not used in Jaipur.

6. In recent months, the police in Karnataka, Goa, Uttar Pradesh, Andhra Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh had claimed to have neutralised a number of jihadi sleeper cells constituted by the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LET) and the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami (HUJI) with the help of the Students' Islamic Movement of India (SIMI).During their interrogation, those arrested reportedly spoke of the plans of these organisations to attack Israeli and Western tourists in Goa. In fact, Goa had been repeatedly figuring in interrogation reports as a possible target for attacks by the LET or the HUJI or both. Jaipur had not figured in the interrogation reports.

7. The fact that Jaipur and not Goa was attacked is mysterious. This would indicate one of two things: Either those arrested and interrogated earlier had misled the police by talking freely about Goa when their real target was Jaipur; or the Jaipur blasts were carried out by an organisation totally different from the organisations ( the LET and the HUJI) to which those arrested earlier belonged,.

8. Tourism has been an important target of the terrorists all over the world. Al Gamah Al Islamiyah of Egypt used to attack tourist targets in Egypt in the 1990s. The Jemaah Islamiyah of Indonesia targeted the Australian tourists twice in Bali in 2002 and 2005. Al Qaeda targeted the foreign tourists (mainly Israelis) in Mombasa in 2002, in Casablanca in 2003 and in Sharm-el-Sheikh in Egypt in 2005. Their primary targets were foreign tourists though locals also got killed. In Jaipur, there was no targeted attack on foreign tourists. No foreigner has been killed. They did not attack restaurants, bars, hotels etc, which are known to be frequented by foreign tourists. The terrorists targeted the tourist potential of Jaipur, but not foreign tourists in particular.

9. Some police officers and embedded journalists have already started blaming the LET and the HUJI even though the blasts do not carry any unique signature of any organisation. The only way of identifying the organisation responsible is by arresting the perpetrators and interrogating them. Till we reach that stage, it will be premature and unwise to blame anyone.

10. Almost 24 hours after the blasts, two TV channels of New Delhi claimed to have received an anonymous E-mail claiming responsibility for the explosions on behalf of a group called "the Indian Mujashideen. The E-mail was purported to have been sent by guru_alhindi_jaipur@yahoo.co.uk. The most significant thing about this message is that it has included the picture of one of the cycles alleged to have been used in Jaipur with the number of the cycle readable. If a cycle with that number had, in fact, been used in Jaipur, this claim could acquire some authenticity.

11. In the 1980s, the Irish Republican Army (IRA) of the UK used to follow a similar MO whenever it planted an IED. Through phone calls, it used to give clues to the police to enable them establish the authenticity of the IRA's claim of responsibility.

12. It may be recalled that before the blasts outside some courts in Uttar Pradesh in November last, a message claiming responsibility for the blasts on behalf of "Indian Mujahideen" was received by local TV channels. There was also a reference to Guru-al-Hindi in another message. This was suspected to be a reference to Afzal Guru, who has been sentenced to death in the case relating to the attack on the Indian Parliament in December, 2001 and who has appealed for clemency. The message of November, 2007, had also claimed that the Indian Mujahideen had nothing to do with the LET or the HUJI.

13. It is not clear whether the cycle is the one recovered by the police with the IED intact after it failed to explode and whether they released the photo to the media. If so, the inclusion of this photo in the E-mail is not significant. If not, it is. If the cycle figuring in the photo is found to have been used and successfully activated, that would be an indication that an organisation of Indian Muslims hitherto unknown to the Police has been operating undetected by the Police. In this connection, please refer to my following comments in my article on the November blasts in UP at http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers ... r2474.html

"It has been reported that an E-mail message purported to be from "Indian Mujahideen" received by some TV channels before the explosions indicated that these explosions were about to take place. However, it referred to explosions in two and not three cities. "Indian Mujahideen" does not refer to any organisation, but it refers to Indian Muslims in general and says that the Indian Muslims have decided to take the offensive and wage a jihad. In justification of this decision, it refers to the severe penalties awarded to the accused in the Mumbai blasts of March, 1993, and the lack of action against Hindu police officers, who committed atrocities on Muslims. It also refers to the Gujarat riots of 2002 and the recent assault on arrested JEM (Jaish-e-Mohammad) suspects by some lawyers. The message is not only a warning of their intention to act, but also an explanation of why Indian Muslims have decided to act. The main point, which the sender of the message has sought to convey, is that the criminal justice system treats the Muslims severely, but is lenient to the Hindus. The language used is typically Indian, the context and arguments used are typically of Indian Muslims and the issues raised are those which have been agitating the minds of sections of Indian Muslims such as the demolition of the Babri Masjid in December,1992, lack of action against the Hindu police officers of Mumbai who were found guilty of excesses by the Sri Krishna Enquiry Commission, the severe penalties awarded to Muslims who had retaliated in March,1993, and the Gujarat riots.


"It admits that the Muslims were responsible for the explosions in Varanasi, Delhi, Mumbai and in a restaurant and park in Hyderabad, but says they were not responsible for the blasts in Malegaon in September, 2006, in the Samjauta Express and the Mecca Masjid of Hyderabad this year (2007). It is silent on the recent blast in the Ajmer Sharif, a Muslim holy place famous for its tolerant Sufi tradition.

"It says that the Indian Muslims have decided to wage a jihad for Islamic rule and talks of a "war for civilisation." It warns that their next targets will be police officers." {Check news link below }

(The writer is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai. E-mail: seventyone2@gmail.com)

Jaipur blasts: Terror email genuine

The cops said that the ball bearings were of a "particularly damaging variety" and were placed in a "curve" in such a way that when the bomb exploded the shrapnel burst out ahead, and not up, causing maximum damage till close to 100 feet. The blasts took place in an area where as many as three police stations. One of the blasts took place a few metres from the Kotwali police station. As Singh pointed out, the bomb outside Kotwali police station had been timed to go off at the time when police staff roll call takes place.

"Fortunately, the roll call was done with moments before the blasts. Otherwise, a number of policemen could have also died," added Singh.

[sauravjha]

I know quite a bit about the second schism and the basic hagiography of the eastern church i.e what their saints have done and have had to say and i am sorry to say it ain't very well disposed towards paganism either.

I also have an inherent problem with trying to "convert People" .. there is no such thing. only people who define themselves as a complementary set to others (example - I am a believer , they are infidels ) try to convert people.

Dharma allows all individuals , their own truths and lies and leaves it to the individual to evaluate his own position.

dharma also says, that whoever helps the needy is akin to the godhead. if you want to help people help them but dont make it conditional on their converting to your "truth".

[Sanku]

^^^^

I have the same problem with "conversion"; however there is a solution -- Vishwe Aryo Bhav -- make the world Arya (where Arya is noble of course)

Tamso ma jyotirgamaya.

No one is asking for a conversion in "religion" thats the cheap stunt of a Abharamic religion -- lets have a ideological change -- let people believe in Indic ideology and leave the parts which are not Indic.

Simple.

Thats the way we can move people to our side of the fence without us Dharmics feeling queasy about conversion.


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BTW> There are three threads
1. Tackling Islamic extremism
2. Jaipur blasts
3. Long term solution to terror.

Although the difference in the topics is obvious; for all practical purposes they mirror each other; a reflection on the fact that the topics are all inextricably linked in real life too.

Can they please me merged to avoid thread proliferation?

[Raju]

^^^^

I have the same problem with "conversion"; however there is a solution -- Vishwe Aryo Bhav -- make the world Arya (where Arya is noble of course)

Tamso ma jyotirgamaya.

No one is asking for a conversion in "religion" thats the cheap stunt of a Abharamic religion -- lets have a ideological change -- let people believe in Indic ideology and leave the parts which are not Indic.

Simple.

Thats the way we can move people to our side of the fence without us Dharmics feeling queasy about conversion.

Exactly ! find out solutions instead of isolating ourselves even further. We Indians have an uncanny knack of locking ourselves into a siege-mentality.

btw yesterday I had a aha moment. Firstly things have been set up in such a manner globally that a single individual at the right time, right place talking the right sensible stuff can weild a lot of power and be in a position to a lot of influence among the masses.

as we see there is a converging of various factors .. probably this is something divine and though it seems like a juicy low-hanging fruit, it is out of our reach at same time.

Everything is maya.

[vsudhir]

Narendra Modi Pushes For Collective, Proactive Anti-Terror Action

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi has urged Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to immediately convene a meeting of all state chief ministers to discuss internal security concerns in the aftermath of the terror blasts in Jaipur Tuesday.

Basically if kendra sarkar can't/won't do much, let the states form a coalition of the willing of sorts and start tackling the problem. Can't complain with that line of thinking, given how things have been going of late.

Well, Narendrabhai has jumped into the fray despite dhimmedia determined to 'contain' his influence by denying him newsprint and airtime.

Recall NM had proposed an 'Intelligence school' for our cops, paramilitary, agencies and sleuths and even offered land and facilities in Gujrat free of cost for such a venture, back in '05 or '06. Dilli continues to sit on that file, AFAIK, and dhimmedia mainted thundering silence on that among other things about NM.

Point is, the man has longterm ideas and vision (not just next polls focussed) and a diligent, stepwise logical approach to getting things done (not ad hoc knee-jerking). Comapred to gutless wonder shivraj patil saab, almost any neta could do a better job. But NM is simply the best out there, for this job. No doubts about it, IMVVHO, of course.