J & K news and discussion

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Aug 2008 21:19

[url=http://india_resource.tripod.com/kashmir.html]Jammu & Kashmir: Self-Determination, Demands for a Plebiscite and Secession[/url]

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 19 Aug 2008 21:49

The real reason for kashmir problem lies in the fact that G-string (geelani) followers were not getting the numbers and issues to provoke the general people of kashmir against GoI. Amarnath issue provided an readymade opportunity to these guys to increase their headcount and comeback in limelight. In GoI needs to take a very tough line with these separatists and encourage the moderate faction to sidelines the likes of G-stringers(geelani followers which are most uneducated/unemployed masses). A stern warning must be issued that whatever you want to do is allowed except that you are not fu** going to get an inch of kashmir no matter WTF method you try.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 19 Aug 2008 21:59

blatantly pro pak news article from r-e-diff

apologies if posted earlier

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Aug 2008 21:59

What exactly is a 'moderate' separatist?

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 19 Aug 2008 22:06

probably Mirwaiz Omar Farooq, who favours talks can be put down as moderate separatist.

Bharati · Post by **Bharati** » 19 Aug 2008 22:20

Does anybody here have a first hand experience of what a common kashmiri thinks about the separatists, NC, PDP and GOI?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Aug 2008 22:21

moderate separatist

These are invented labels used by the media to make disloyal Muslim bigots more palatable to the Indian population.

Bharati · Post by **Bharati** » 19 Aug 2008 22:30

The moderate separatists bring credibility(in front of international eyes) to the movement which they don't deserve. The armed ones can be treated as rebels and crushed and no one speaks in their favour, ULFA for example.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 19 Aug 2008 22:33

Gerard wrote:
moderate separatist
These are invented labels used by the media to make disloyal Muslim bigots more palatable to the Indian population.

Agree, that is just like saying moderate paki, the media makes it out as if that Mirwaiz chap is doing a huge favour to India by being moderate, huh!.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 19 Aug 2008 22:54

A separist is one who kills you and a moderate seperist is one who talks with you first and then kills you - So there you go

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 20 Aug 2008 00:08

Reciprocity and Hindu anger

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 20 Aug 2008 00:11

From wiki on Kashmir,

The Tarikh-i-Firishta records that Sikandar persecuted the Hindus and issued orders proscribing the residence of any other than Muslims in Kashmir. He also ordered the breaking of all "golden and silver images". The Tarikh-i-Firishta further states: "Many of the Brahmins, rather than abandon their religion or their country, poisoned themselves; some emigrated from their native homes, while a few escaped. After the emigration of the Brahmins, Sikandar ordered all the temples in Kashmeer to be thrown down. Having broken all the images in Kashmir, (Sikandar) acquired the title of ‘Destroyer of Idols’."[4]

[4] Muhammad Qãsim Hindû Shãh Firishta : Tãrîkh-i-Firishta, translated by John Briggs under the title "History of the Rise of the Mahomedan Power in India." First published in 1829, New Delhi Reprint 1981.

Unfortunately this also happened in 1990's. Unless Indian public doesn't reads texts like Babur Nama, above one and other that are similar; otherwise the NCERT BS fed in by Marxist historians will make sure that we will never be able to make a collective will to fight against this jihadism.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Aug 2008 02:48

Valley Muslims confirm their true identity and intentions. There are two faces to it. First one is so called “economic blockade” logic. And the literate-vermins make claims on the JK budget figures of 3k-12k crores to assure self-reliance, as if the entire state revenues are coming from and outlays have to be limited to the valley only. The second aspect is the DDM’s coverage on their freedom aspirations and UN tamasha. All in all, there is nothing to worry, IMHO, about these pigs getting anything. The world already knows about the JK issue and there is not much pressure on India to act at this point, and we can live with status-quo until a more patriotic leader emerges in dilli darbar.

However the most worrisome dimension, again IMHO, is the antiques of nobel-seeking MMS mahaatma.. irrespective of the pros and cons of the nuke deal, we all saw how UPA pushed ahead with the deal and still managed to come intact… I am more worried about the selfish traitors such as NGOs, Amar/Mulayam sings, and Lalloo prasads coming together to do the unthinkable. While we all at BR cry and criticize all these anti-national activities, the reality is there is little change in the political battleground. We didn’t see all the patriotic (if any) parties coming under a single umbrella. In fact we saw all the parties except BJP and its allies moving towards the leftist+maya/UPA camps (for example in Andhra Pradesh).

The only hope is that the Jammu protests kick start a silent nationalistic revolution throughout the nation and the nationalistic organizations come together and get an absolute majority to BJP with assurances on Article 370, nuclear tests, and Pakistan/china threats.

And these parties should approach influential citizens like Abdul Kalaam, Pandit Ravishankar, R Narayana Murthy, various swamijis, Amitab Bachan, Rajani Kanth kind of people. These leaders do have a soft influence on Indian middle class and undecided voters. If properly projected they cannot say NO to a statement like -

“India for all Indians, one nation one law and one system” – Let there be one law and one system for all Indians. Indians should be able to live and settle in any part of India. Let us introduce “Common Civil Law” and “Abrogate Article 370”. For this RSS should convince Bal Thakre kind of leaders to accept this in their state first and use that statement as a spring board.

“India for all Indians, the poor should get the resources first”. Let us have education and jobs assigned to all the poor and needy in India. Introduce comprehensive ID cards (Photo IDs please) with socio-economic information and use them as the basis for job/education reservations. 70% of all seats and jobs will be reserved for economically backward families.

“Mera Bharat Mahaan, Culture, Land, and People”. Let us be proud to be Indians. Let us energize our culture, land and people. This land offers sustenance, guidance and wealth to all its children irrespective of their beliefs or religion. Indian Muslims are most educated, happy and wealthy in Indian subcontinent. Be proud to be an Indian. Proudly say “Mera Bharat Mahan”

“Mera Bharat Mahan, Jai Javan, Jai Kisan, Jai Vijnan”. India at the forefront of world civilization. Let us protect our nation and culture. Let us feed the needy and spread our wealth. Let us guide the rest of the world with our knowledge and wisdom. Proudly say “Mera Bharat Mahan”. Say yes to POTA to protect our nation from terrorism, say yes to "Interlinking Indian Rivers" and produce 30000 MW energy and irrigate 1 crore hectors while avoiding flood damages, say yes to "Nuclear and Missile tests" to demostrate India's scientific progress.

Bharati · Post by **Bharati** » 20 Aug 2008 03:04

IMO the anti-national elements are digging their own grave by going overboard with their nautanki, while nationalist junta is slowly awakening. It will take just one nationalistic leader who has a pan-India appeal, akin to what Modi has in Gujarat, to turn the tables.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 20 Aug 2008 03:15

Bharati wrote:IMO the anti-national elements are digging their own grave by going overboard with their nautanki, while nationalist junta is slowly awakening. It will take just one nationalistic leader who has a pan-India appeal, akin to what Modi has in Gujarat, to turn the tables.

The "anti nationalists" know this. That is why Deoband says one thing and Geelani says another. Deoband openly has an agenda to make India Islamic. So far their main strategy has been to encorage higher birthrates.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 20 Aug 2008 03:19

RamaY wrote:Valley Muslims confirm their true identity and intentions. There are two faces to it. First one is so called “economic blockade” logic. And the literate-vermins make claims on the JK budget figures of 3k-12k crores to assure self-reliance, as if the entire state revenues are coming from and outlays have to be limited to the valley only. The second aspect is the DDM’s coverage on their freedom aspirations and UN tamasha. All in all, there is nothing to worry, IMHO, about these pigs getting anything. The world already knows about the JK issue and there is not much pressure on India to act at this point, and we can live with status-quo until a more patriotic leader emerges in dilli darbar.

However the most worrisome dimension, again IMHO, is the antiques of nobel-seeking MMS mahaatma.. irrespective of the pros and cons of the nuke deal, we all saw how UPA pushed ahead with the deal and still managed to come intact… I am more worried about the selfish traitors such as NGOs, Amar/Mulayam sings, and Lalloo prasads coming together to do the unthinkable. While we all at BR cry and criticize all these anti-national activities, the reality is there is little change in the political battleground. We didn’t see all the patriotic (if any) parties coming under a single umbrella. In fact we saw all the parties except BJP and its allies moving towards the leftist+maya/UPA camps (for example in Andhra Pradesh).

The only hope is that the Jammu protests kick start a silent nationalistic revolution throughout the nation and the nationalistic organizations come together and get an absolute majority to BJP with assurances on Article 370, nuclear tests, and Pakistan/china threats.

And these parties should approach influential citizens like Abdul Kalaam, Pandit Ravishankar, R Narayana Murthy, various swamijis, Amitab Bachan, Rajani Kanth kind of people. These leaders do have a soft influence on Indian middle class and undecided voters. If properly projected they cannot say NO to a statement like -

“India for all Indians, one nation one law and one system” – Let there be one law and one system for all Indians. Indians should be able to live and settle in any part of India. Let us introduce “Common Civil Law” and “Abrogate Article 370”. For this RSS should convince Bal Thakre kind of leaders to accept this in their state first and use that statement as a spring board.

“India for all Indians, the poor should get the resources first”. Let us have education and jobs assigned to all the poor and needy in India. Introduce comprehensive ID cards (Photo IDs please) with socio-economic information and use them as the basis for job/education reservations. 70% of all seats and jobs will be reserved for economically backward families.

“Mera Bharat Mahaan, Culture, Land, and People”. Let us be proud to be Indians. Let us energize our culture, land and people. This land offers sustenance, guidance and wealth to all its children irrespective of their beliefs or religion. Indian Muslims are most educated, happy and wealthy in Indian subcontinent. Be proud to be an Indian. Proudly say “Mera Bharat Mahan”

“Mera Bharat Mahan, Jai Javan, Jai Kisan, Jai Vijnan”. India at the forefront of world civilization. Let us protect our nation and culture. Let us feed the needy and spread our wealth. Let us guide the rest of the world with our knowledge and wisdom. Proudly say “Mera Bharat Mahan”. Say yes to POTA to protect our nation from terrorism, say yes to "Interlinking Indian Rivers" and produce 30000 MW energy and irrigate 1 crore hectors while avoiding flood damages, say yes to "Nuclear and Missile tests" to demostrate India's scientific progress.

Vote bank policies does not even allow to punish a person who starts shooting in the parliament. The Islamists has a virtual veto in Indian politics.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Aug 2008 03:21

What was there before Deoband? I know Deoband was setup in ~ 1860s. Prior to that there was Shah Walliullah (1760s) and two centuries before that Sirhindi(Akbar time) and even before that Chisti(Sultanate period). What is the lineage of the Indian Islamic intellectual thought process?.

Bharati · Post by **Bharati** » 20 Aug 2008 04:34

Rishirishi wrote: The "anti nationalists" know this. That is why Deoband says one thing and Geelani says another. Deoband openly has an agenda to make India Islamic. So far their main strategy has been to encorage higher birthrates.

The country right now is to a great extent 'ruled' by anti-nationals under the mask of patriotism. Once these pigs are exposed, country will go to nationalistic hands who can challenge the agenda of Deoband.
That is when media would stop praising Deoband for issuing a fatwa against terrorism and treat them as a threat to our democracy.

Deoband is doing what the prophet asked them to do when they are a minority. Multiply till your numbers are large enough and finish off the kafirs. They do not want to directly support jihadis so as to not encounter any retaliation. But once they get anywhere close to 50% of the population, there would be bloodbath. They wouldn't think twice before mercilessly finishing us.

Hindus are at the receiving end of both evangelism and islam. World ever there is a clash of civilization between these two aggressive highly intolerant religions. These two have managed to more or less finish off almost all native religions in the world. Now they are at war with each other. We will be left to fight the winners of this war.
However, there is a possibility that the followers realize the poison these religions are spilling and themselves abandon it. For this to happen, modern education and awareness has to spread in the world which is exactly what these religions suppress.

At this point all we can do is be prepared and try to stop the tentacles from spreading deep into our society. Many of us consider pakis and islamic terrorists are our biggest threats whereas in reality the biggest danger to our country and society comes from chinis and EJs, who at the moment are attacking us from behind.

Muns · Post by **Muns** » 20 Aug 2008 08:07

Perhaps someone can correct me on these figures, but a rough estimate. All taken from Wiki.
Population of the valley : 2.8 million of which 95% are muslim. Mostly Sunni
Leaves approximately 150 000 Hindus left in the valley.
Population of Srinagar : 895 000.
Kashmiri Pandits that left ~ 180 000
Population of India 1.13 Billion.

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 20 Aug 2008 09:00

Muns wrote:Perhaps someone can correct me on these figures, but a rough estimate. All taken from Wiki.
Population of the valley : 2.8 million of which 95% are muslim. Mostly Sunni
Leaves approximately 150 000 Hindus left in the valley.
Population of Srinagar : 895 000.
Kashmiri Pandits that left ~ 180 000
Population of India 1.13 Billion.

But, this article in Hindu quotes different figures.
Kashmir and Jammu regions enjoy parity (good deal of psy ops and equal/equal here, of course)

Muslim-majority Kashmir has a population of 5,476,970 while Jammu is home to 4,429,887 people.

Unfortunately the Indian government census site that is linked in this article works intermittently. I am trying to get the govt data.

archan · Post by **archan** » 20 Aug 2008 09:09

Is Arundhati Roy Christian? I read just now that her name is Suzanne Arundhati Roy. That would explain some of her tirades against the "Hindu" India. I have come to think that since India is not a secular state in the true sense, maybe she should shun the pretense of it and go all out after her interests.

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 20 Aug 2008 09:18

J&K Census data 2001
Total population of J&K in 2001: 10,143,700
The populations were further listed district wise.

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 20 Aug 2008 09:56

archan wrote:Is Arundhati Roy Christian? I read just now that her name is Suzanne Arundhati Roy. That would explain some of her tirades against the "Hindu" India. I have come to think that since India is not a secular state in the true sense, maybe she should shun the pretense of it and go all out after her interests.

I don't know whether she is a Christian or not (mother Keralite Syrian Christian and father a Bengali Hindu), but, I do know that she is a desh drohi.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Aug 2008 10:01

arcahn, Pursuing that line of thinking about DIE is fruitless for they are beyond everything.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Aug 2008 11:05

Folks no need to vent too much.

Separatists too know damn well that their separation plans rest wholly on the advantages handed to them by Article 370. Keeping that article in force gives India the moral high ground and the separatists know that. Removing that article would allow india to flood the valley with a few dozen millions of other Indians, and force Kashmiris to behave like every other Indian state.

Separatism can go only so far.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Aug 2008 11:09

A " moderate separatist" is akin to a "moderate rapist".While the rapist/separatist takes advantage of its victim with violent force against her wishes,a "moderate rapist/separatist" does exactly the same thing with a smile,telling the victim, "when rape is inevitable lie back and enjoy it"!

Unfortunately for Arundhati Roy,her earlier impassioned wiritngs about injustice in the country,which won her international fame,are now being sacrificed at the altar of international success.She is atuning her writing to what will "sell" in the NGO/activist bazaar to preserve her reputation as an icon of anti-establishment activism in India.Since the rewards for her writing comes mainly from western publishers,she is keeping them in good humour as well as her bank manager.

The GOI should after due written warning to desist from their separatist activities,strip the separatist leaders of their Indian nationality and send them into exile.Any troublemaker on any side,who challenges the law of the land and takes to violent protest must suffer the consequences.The security and stability of the state is the most important responsibility of any government and if this one cannot provide it,then an all-India movement,like that that brought Mushy down,"Go MMS Go!" should begin.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 20 Aug 2008 11:42

Hey did you guys notice how Tehelka's cheif editor was supporting Arundhati Roy yesterday. I think Telehka have now been exposed as a anti-national organization. Now I am convinced that in the case babu lal Bajrangi, they paid him a huge amount to just blurt out a bunch of lies against Modi.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Aug 2008 11:53

the power of these cats paws and mischief makers arises not from individual strength but
from the 'network is the computer' paradigm. they seem to be plugged in everywhere - IMF, WB, DC, 10 downing, evanjihadis, islamofascist 'moderates', naxals, radical artists and poets, JNU, DDM, ..... name a serpent anywhere and they are all networked together in JTIDS config.
take out one or two nodes and the network recomputes optimal config and converges into
a new topology.

one has to carefully isolate and 'target' the higher layer nodes before taking them out and
the smaller nodes will wither on the vine.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 20 Aug 2008 13:11

All police stations converted into ‘satsang ghars’ by women
On second day, protesters surpass 2 lakh figure
*Heavy teargas, stoning in several areas of Jammu; 70 injured

By Sanjeev PargalJ

AMMU, Aug 19: Over 70 persons including 52 protesters, some of them women, and DySP Bakshi Nagar Rupinder Chalotra, his PSO besides six Rapid Action Force (RAF) personnel were injured as a large number of people fought pitched battles with the cops in their attempt to thwart a cultural function organised by Information Department at Abhinav Theatre this afternoon alleging that such a function was "unwarranted" when entire Jammu was burning for last several days. Police fired several tearsmoke shells and resorted to heavy lathicharge but failed to control the mob while over 25 trucks were damaged and one of them was burnt by the protesters at Sainik Colony on Narwal by-pass and Ghagwal on Jammu-Pathankot National Highway while dozens of vehicles were vandalised by the people participating in ‘jail bharo andolan’ as strike called by Shri Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti (SAYSS) for restoration of land to Shri Amarnath Shrine Board (SASB) once again turned violent on 51st day as consecutive bandh in the region entered into 28th day today. A minority community driver from Gadigarh was mercilessly beaten-up by the people at Bijbehara and was battling for life at Government Medical College, Jammu, where he was shifted by a TATA Sumo of Udhampur.

The violence outside Abhinav Theatre also spread to Canal Road, Krishna Nagar, Jewel Chowk, Chand Nagar, Talab Tillo, New Plot and Rehari Chungi where cops had to use tearsmoke shells to disperse the protesters.

Significant in today’s court arrests was the presence of a large number of Sikhs including the community’s women and Muslims including Gujjars at many places.

The trouble outside Abhinav Theatre later spread to entire Canal Road, Talab Tillo and even New Plots where RAF had to fire rubber bullets and police used teargas shells and lathicharge on the rampaging mob which was protesting holding of a cultural function in the burning City. At New Plots, the people also resented the Government decision to allow Hurriyat Conference to march to the United Nations. Nearly 20 protesters were injured in the clashes at New Plot alone.

GMC Medical Superintendent Dr Romesh Gupta said 25 protesters have been admitted in GMC Jammu till tonight including six RAF personnel besides DySP Rupinder Chalotra. Twenty others, mostly women, turned up for treatment after they fainted during court arrests. Four of them had to be hospitalised.

On second day of ‘jail bharo andolan’, when only women were scheduled to court arrest, a virtually sea of humanity including men, women, youths, children, elders and Sadhu Samaj outnumbering yesterday’s estimated figure of two lakh, turned out in every nook and corner of Jammu region and offered themselves for arrest. Even the Government schools, play grounds and other make shift jails fell short for the police to accommodate the agitationists. With very few buses or private vehicles at the disposal of police due to yesterday’s damage caused to SRTC fleet by the mob, the cops had no option but to keep the protesters within the police stations or take them to school buildings and play grounds within the walking distance till they dispersed on their own.

Virtually all police stations in the region, barring few, were converted by the women into the ‘temples’ holding ‘satsang’ and ‘kirtans’ singing ‘bhajans’ in praise of Lord Shiva chanting ‘Bum Bum Bhole’, "Aaj Hamein Yeh Kahna Hai, Jeena Hai Ya Marna Hai’, ‘Laathi Goli Khayenge, Zameen Waapis Layenge’, ‘Jammu Ki Naariyan, Aag Ki Chingariyan’, ‘Inqullab Zindabad’ and ‘Desh Kay Gadaron Ko, Jute Maaro Saalon Ko’. Seeing the surging crowds, police, at most of the places barring Gandhi Nagar and Kathua, made no attempt to confront the mob and voluntarily opened the gates to allow the protesters in. At some places, the police constables including women were also seen singing the ‘bhajans’. A number of women recorded their names in police stations, while offering themselves for court arrest, as Parvati wife of Shiv Shankar R/o Baltal

n some of the police stations, the cops also offered cool waters to the people. It seemed that the police at almost all the places had surrendered itself before the protesters and kept police stations at their disposal. The mob, however, caused no damage to police station complexes except for hoisting national and saffron flags there.

Intelligence agencies said nearly 80,000 people took to streets and offered themselves for arrest but due to space shortage very few of them were actually arrested. However, independent inputs received by the EXCELSIOR, indicated that the people including women offering themselves for court arrest were more in number than yesterday’s two lakh figure. It could be upto 2.5 lakh, the inputs said. The SAYSS claimed that 3.5 lakh people including women offered arrests.

http://dailyexcelsior.com/

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 20 Aug 2008 13:30

Bar demands criminal case against Geelani

Excelsior Correspondent
http://dailyexcelsior.com/

JAMMU, Aug 19: Bar Association Jammu today demanded registration of criminal case against hardcore separatist Syed Ali Shah Geelani for his anti-national utterances while addressing a public meeting at Srinagar yesterday.

"Geelani’s admission that he is a Pakistani, is sufficient to substantiate his involvement in anti-national activities", the Bar said and appealed to secular Muslims of Kashmir region to be aware of such anti-national leaders who are responsible for killing of innocent people.

The Bar also asked the Central and State Governments to refrain from pursuing appeasement policy towards such anti-national and Kashmir centric leaders.

Meanwhile, Bar members took out a procession from High Court Complex, Janipur and offered arrests outside Pacca Danga Police Station in support of Jail Bharo Andolan call given by Shri Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti.

Addressing the gathering, president of the Bar B S Slathia said that ongoing agitation has reached to a very crucial stage and there was dire need to be more vigilant as the forces inimical to ongoing movement were hell bent to sabotage the cause of Jammu.

He lauded the support extended by the people to the agitation and said that agitation for the past over 50 days even at the cost of bread and butter should be an eye-opener for the Central Government which has maintained stoic silence over the issue.

The Bar demanded adequate compensation for the property damaged in Kishtwar violence and appealed the general masses to remain aware and identify the vested interests who have been attempting to weaken the ongoing agitation.

Vice-president of the Bar C M Sharma, general secretary Pawan Manni, Sunil Sethi and Khawaja Mohd Rashid also addressed the gathering.

AYSS has extended strike till 25 August.. Governor has invites AYSS leaders for talks, but they looked quite cool over the points offered for negotiation.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Aug 2008 13:36

A minority community driver from Gadigarh was mercilessly beaten-up by the people at Bijbehara and was battling for life at Government Medical College, Jammu, where he was shifted by a TATA Sumo of Udhampur.

This was avoidable,IMHO...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 20 Aug 2008 13:48

Bijbehara is a muslim dominated area in Kashmir. Majority-minority talk of media creates many confusions. Gadigarh is a Sikh majority area near Jammu airport and Udhampur lies in between Jammu and Srinagar.
So it looks like "minority community driver" was a Hindu or Sikh.

Inder Sharma · Post by **Inder Sharma** » 20 Aug 2008 14:53

IMHO, Retaining J&K is essential to the overall security of Indian federal composition. Not because of emotional attachment, but because Kashmir acts as the buffer zone for jihadi variety to be fertilized in the valley - rather than tackle their ‘lal-qila’ challenge in indian mainland.

Let us not forget that Indian civilization has lost more than 45% of its landmass in last 1000 yrs to creeping islamisation. And Kashmir is just the latest extension of that process. Anybody who presumes that parting with Kashmir is the end of our woes, lives in a mediocre wonderland stemming from his own idioticity.

Kashmir’s disintegration from India will setup a political model; and an example for future Muslim majoritarian political movements that may arise once an area has achieved Muslim majority in a specific Indian province.

Areas that are projected to achieve Muslim Majority within the rest of India would, then in retrospective, definitely perceive the separation of Kashmir (on Basis of Islamic Majority) as a political example worth emulating.

Such a political trajectory based on fissiparous tendency fits well with the Anglo-saxon imperial vision for India; wherein increasing smaller Islamic states would either federate or collaborate with the largest Islamic state(Pakistan) to achieve their strategic ambitions of managing the landmass through their proxy while eliminating a rising civilizational alternative to western standards of living. (further reference: The ‘Dinia’ of Rehmat Coudhary. And the desire of Churchill to balkanize India)

In a history of nation, demographic changes keep happening with rise and decent of a certain faith system. But does not give any justification for a certain landmass to divorce itself from the core civilization. And our claim on Kashmir is exactly on that basis.

With a Hindu history of 5000 yrs, a mere contemporary islamisation 300 yrs ago is not a basis enough for severing the umbilical cord. Infact, a call for Islamic state of Kashmir should be met with a political objective of re-Indianising (hinduising) the state. We should ask for re-colonization of the valley by pandits. Along with that an effort should be made to settle the population from the plains into the valley. I think UP+Bihar can amply spare 3 crore people for settlement. This populace should be generously sprinkled with Sikh & Maratha immigrants (around a 1.5 mn is enough). This would windup the call for nizam-e-mustafa for good millennia, establish a significant buffer and create an example out of jihad adventures.

Our refusal to visit that option of re-colonisation is, in itself is defeat at hand of islamists, and reduces our bargaining ability. If not the actual implementation, this strategy too should be on cards to limit the jihadi fervor.

And finally, Anybody who thinks this is a mere rant of a jingo disconnected from reality; should appreciate that : Texas, Tibet, Uighuristan, Central Asian Republics, Caucasus, Israel, and many more are examples of re-colonization that occurred in recent past.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 20 Aug 2008 15:58

Singha wrote:the power of these cats paws and mischief makers arises not from individual strength but
from the 'network is the computer' paradigm. they seem to be plugged in everywhere - IMF, WB, DC, 10 downing, evanjihadis, islamofascist 'moderates', naxals, radical artists and poets, JNU, DDM, ..... name a serpent anywhere and they are all networked together in JTIDS config.
take out one or two nodes and the network recomputes optimal config and converges into
a new topology.

one has to carefully isolate and 'target' the higher layer nodes before taking them out and
the smaller nodes will wither on the vine.

Beautifully articulated.

Far better than I could ever have managed to do. Salaam namaste on the effort.

In some sense, I can't help but sympathize with folk who went around howling we need the TN (and no, thats not Tamil Nadu) bums and Fire4+++s as credible minimum insurance while we take on and takle out the higher level nodes inside yindia.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 20 Aug 2008 16:23

archan wrote:Is Arundhati Roy Christian? I read just now that her name is Suzanne Arundhati Roy. That would explain some of her tirades against the "Hindu" India. I have come to think that since India is not a secular state in the true sense, maybe she should shun the pretense of it and go all out after her interests.

Prannoy Roy is her cousin.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Aug 2008 18:09

milindc wrote:Prannoy Roy is her cousin.

and she is related to the karats thru' pranoy's marriage .

raji · Post by **raji** » 20 Aug 2008 18:37

Inder Sharma wrote:IMHO, Retaining J&K is essential to the overall security of Indian federal composition. Not because of emotional attachment, but because Kashmir acts as the buffer zone for jihadi variety to be fertilized in the valley - rather than tackle their ‘lal-qila’ challenge in indian mainland.

Let us not forget that Indian civilization has lost more than 45% of its landmass in last 1000 yrs to creeping islamisation. And Kashmir is just the latest extension of that process. Anybody who presumes that parting with Kashmir is the end of our woes, lives in a mediocre wonderland stemming from his own idioticity.

Kashmir’s disintegration from India will setup a political model; and an example for future Muslim majoritarian political movements that may arise once an area has achieved Muslim majority in a specific Indian province.

Areas that are projected to achieve Muslim Majority within the rest of India would, then in retrospective, definitely perceive the separation of Kashmir (on Basis of Islamic Majority) as a political example worth emulating.

Such a political trajectory based on fissiparous tendency fits well with the Anglo-saxon imperial vision for India; wherein increasing smaller Islamic states would either federate or collaborate with the largest Islamic state(Pakistan) to achieve their strategic ambitions of managing the landmass through their proxy while eliminating a rising civilizational alternative to western standards of living. (further reference: The ‘Dinia’ of Rehmat Coudhary. And the desire of Churchill to balkanize India)

In a history of nation, demographic changes keep happening with rise and decent of a certain faith system. But does not give any justification for a certain landmass to divorce itself from the core civilization. And our claim on Kashmir is exactly on that basis.

With a Hindu history of 5000 yrs, a mere contemporary islamisation 300 yrs ago is not a basis enough for severing the umbilical cord. Infact, a call for Islamic state of Kashmir should be met with a political objective of re-Indianising (hinduising) the state. We should ask for re-colonization of the valley by pandits. Along with that an effort should be made to settle the population from the plains into the valley. I think UP+Bihar can amply spare 3 crore people for settlement. This populace should be generously sprinkled with Sikh & Maratha immigrants (around a 1.5 mn is enough). This would windup the call for nizam-e-mustafa for good millennia, establish a significant buffer and create an example out of jihad adventures.

Our refusal to visit that option of re-colonisation is, in itself is defeat at hand of islamists, and reduces our bargaining ability. If not the actual implementation, this strategy too should be on cards to limit the jihadi fervor.

And finally, Anybody who thinks this is a mere rant of a jingo disconnected from reality; should appreciate that : Texas, Tibet, Uighuristan, Central Asian Republics, Caucasus, Israel, and many more are examples of re-colonization that occurred in recent past.

I have posted similar sentiments in my earlier posts in this thread. However, considering the current state of our government for which the Indian people in general are responsible), therefore, given the current state of mind of the Indian people, to expect the Indian government to embark on re-colonization (I would prefer to use the term "reclaiming the right to settlement on our own territories") is a pipe dream. Therefore, if this has to be done, it has to be done by non-governmental organizations. Hindu non governmental organizations should embark on such a venture soliciting resources from Hindu businessmen ranging from Ambanis down to the neighborhood shopkeepers. Remember, it is not necessary to repeal 370...........all that is necessary is to encroach on public lands in Kashmir and settle people, establish a supply line for them through Jammu and provide private defence forces (along the lines of East India Company having its own army)....
If the hindus all over India cannot organize themselves into pushing this venture, then they deserve what they get and I personally am pessimistic and feel that they will continue to get what they have been getting all along........shafted....

Actually, this is a pipe dream too, but as desirable as it is, this is also the right time to acknowledge that the Indian experiment in secularism has failed. Secularism depends on each faith willing to make roughly equal accomodation of the other to succeed, and in India since independence, it has been the Hindus who have been accomodating and taking it up their backsides.......if India has to have a future, if our children have to have any future in India, it will have to be as a Hindu state........(by Hindu, I mean to encompass and non discriminate against any of the native born faiths, such as Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism etc, who have the same liberal and tolerance characteristics as Hinduism, and in some cases even more so)............how it will come about, I dont know...........maybe Mr. Modi would be a good person to consult on this.......

ShibaPJ · Post by **ShibaPJ** » 20 Aug 2008 19:24

The happenings in J&K has gone from bad to worse, and Emperor Nero is fiddling with his pagdi in Delhi. The developments show the Indian state and GoI's impotence to manage the badly deteriorating situation across the country in general and J&K in particular. Only silver lining is the response of Jammu to the ungrateful traitors in Kashmir. I wish them the very best and pray for their success. This reawakening is needed across the country.

The gangrene has set deep in J&K. Article 370 repeal is a must (why should I, as an Indian citizen pay a higher tax to subsidize the living of ungrateful traitors in J&K and make them 'more equal than others'?), followed by a surgery to remove the parasites, who currently infest that part and are gradually impacting the other parts of the body. A grafting at the impacted part is needed (recolonization) to redress the situation after that. Of course, the trillion $ Q is who will bell the cat? When do we have a nationalistic GoI in place, who can kick @$$ both inside and outside the country? Hope, in my lifetime atleast!!!

P.S.: Arundhati Roy never ceases to amaze. When you thought, she is finally over the hill, there comes a new one. Surely, another prize is being prepared for her by now. We can have a poll in BR, will it be the 2nd booker prize, EU/ Unkil's Cattle/ Goat/ Parasite rights champion, anything else?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 20 Aug 2008 20:27

Pakistan reaffirms political, diplomatic, moral support to Kashmir cause

ISLAMABAD, Aug 19 (PPI): Pakistan has reaffirmed its political, diplomatic and moral support to Kashmir cause and stressed the need to associate the Kashmiri people in the jihad against the dirty kaffirs of India. This was stated by Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi while talking to an All Parties Hurriyet Conference delegation here Tuesday. The delegation led by Ghulam Nabi Fai, Executive Director, Kashmir American Council, Washington included Syed Yusuf Naseem, Ghulam Safi, Rafiq Dar and Nazir Quraishi. The Kashmiri leaders spoke of their concern on recent unrest and violence and use of force in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir. Sweets was offered for APHC leader Shaheed Shaikh Abdul Aziz and other Kashmiris euthenised in recent Muslim mob violence in Indian Jammu and Kashmir.

archan · Post by **archan** » 20 Aug 2008 21:11

Gerard wrote:Pakistan reaffirms political, diplomatic, moral support to Kashmir cause
ISLAMABAD, Aug 19

Where is the Indian pledge for moral, political, diplomatic, and arms supply support for Balochistan and Jiye Sindh freedom struggles? Give up this "principled" crap and look at your nation's interests, oh policymakers. Declare support to these movements publicly and say the support will continue until there is paki support to the Kashmiri separatists. If there is a war going on, then fight it according to the need of the hour!