J & K news and discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Aug 2008 01:02

Why do they call the hostages killed when they were murdered by the terrorists? The word killed is used as 'killed in action' etc implying its was a side effect. Here the hostages were murdered.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 29 Aug 2008 01:34

Vsudhir,

I remember you had posted a statement that you wished GoI to say in response to UN message. What do u think of following.

UN's OHCHR calls for Independent investigation into killings in J&K, GoI says we don't need any advice

India on Thursday reacted strongly to the comments by UN High Commission for Human Rights (HCHR) on the situation in Jammu and Kashmir, terming these as "unwarranted" and "irresponsible" and bluntly told it that New Delhi does not need "any advice".

New Delhi pointed out to the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) that terrorists have been targeting innocent people in the state, like in Jammu on Wednesday, and the security forces have been making efforts to ensure that no innocent lives are lost and in this endeavour laid down their lives.

"We regret that the OHCHR has issued a statement on the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. This is uncalled for and irresponsible," External Affairs Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna said in New Delhi.

"India does not need any advice in respect of the protection and promotion of human rights of its citizens," he asserted.

The UN body, in its first comment since protests and violence erupted over Amarnath land transfer issue in Jammu and Kashmir, voiced concern over civilian casualties and asked India to conduct "a thorough and independent investigation" into all the incidents.

Sarna said the OHCHR should be aware that Jammu and Kashmir has been a "victim of terrorist violence" for almost two decades and all through this period, the authorities have acted within the law and with restraint.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 29 Aug 2008 01:44

Sumeet bhai,

Thats a good start.

Also, would be nice if the Brit high commissioner is summoned at 2 am to South block to face some serious rap music over his openly meeting (and thereby encouraging) splittists in the valley last week.

BTW, whats with these ex-imperial high commisars anyway. What're they high on, I wonder.....

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 29 Aug 2008 05:52

Paki lurkers... your Burrlin airlift begins....

Lathis land on Valley, by air

The air force is rushing planeloads of arms to security forces in Jammu and Kashmir, from places as far as the Northeast and Tamil Nadu. The AN-32s are bringing in lathis and tear-gas shells.

nkumar · Post by **nkumar** » 29 Aug 2008 07:59

R Vaidya wrote:Stop this Humbug called Kashmiri is Hurt--New Indian Express--28-08-08

http://epaper.newindpress.com/Articlete ... 001&mode=1

rvaidya

The second issue of hurt is regarding their socio-economic condition. In every indicator J & K stands in the top rung of all the states.

Some of the indicators are:

1. Per capita Consumption of Electricity at 759KWh (2006-2007) is much higher than in UP , MP , Rajasthan, Bihar,WB, etc.

(Rajya Sabha Question No.2908-21-04-08).

2. Per Capita Central assistance at Rs.

2860 (in 2000) much higher than all states; with TN at Rs.260 and UP at 385 and WB at 426 and all India figure of Rs. 395. If at all; the rest of India should be hurt about it.Even total assistance of Rs 2631 crore in 2000 is the highest among states.

(Rajya Sabha Question Nb.1370 dated 0308-2000.) 3. State-wise per capita availability of Milk in India (2005-2006) at 353 gms per day for J & K is much higher than most of the states with all-India average at 241 gms per day . (Rajya Sabha Question 1801 dated 11-08-2006).

4. State-wise per capita allocation for Agriculture and Rural development (2002-2003) at Rs. 305 (Rs.245 and Rs.60) is much higher than most states including TN at Rs. 188 and AP at Rs. 125, Maharashtra Rs 202 (leave alone BIMARU states) with all-India average at Rs.

152.(Lok Sabha Question 4659 dated 2304-03).

5. State-wise per capita expenditure (Current and capital) on health in India in 2001 at Rs. 363 is much higher than most states with TN at 170, AP at 146, UP at Rs. 83 and WB at Rs. 206 and a national average of 167. (Rajya Sabha question no. 756 dated 28-07-2003) 6. State-wise average monthly per capita consumption expenditure of farmers in India in 2003 at Rs. 712 for J & K is the third highest in India next to Punjab at Rs 828 and Haryana at Rs. Rs 741 with national average being Rs 502. (Rajya Sabha Question 1759 dated 08-12-2005).

7. The distribution of households in terms of ownership of dwellings at 94 per cent is one of the highest in India (Table H-5 Census of India —The StateJ&K — Census 2001).

Mr. Vaidya: good collection of data about socio-economic indications. A good rebuttal to the so called liberals in the media who are advocating ceding of J&K from India.

But what about security aspect for India if J&K cedes away from India? Would it not become an Islamist hell hole? Why don't we learn anything from history? The theater for future conflict between India and China which should have been Tibet, would now be Arunanchal/Ladakh. If J&K cedes, then future conflict areas between India and Porkistan will shift further inwards. And who knows, Hurri-rats will then be firmly in control of US and hence of J&K. An absolute nightmare security situation for India if J&K separates.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Aug 2008 08:59

Link

The price of making peace in Jammu & Kashmir

Praveen Swami

New Delhi’s well-meaning but ill-conceived dialogue process communalised Jammu and Kashmir and laid the ground for the ongoing crisis.

Pakistan’s flag fluttered over the ruins of a Central Reserve Police Force bunker at Makarpora in Srinagar’s Kawdara neighbourhood. Beneath it, a group of teenage local residents were sweeping away the debris. “We burned down the rats’ nest,” one said “and now we’re cleaning up the filth.”

Much the same was happening across Srinagar this past fortnight. Yards from secessionist leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq’s Rajouri Kadal home, his supporters demolished a bunker set up to protect the All Parties Hurriyat Conference chairman and his police-provided guards. Not far away, in Rainawari, a mob burned down the office of National Conference politician Mohammad Syed Akhoon, and then planted a Pakistani flag to mark its victory.

Experts have been telling New Delhi that the solution to this Islamist upsurge lies in negotiations which will give power — if not independence — to secessionists. Both the premise of this received-wisdom and the prescriptions it lends itself to are false. In fact, the crisis now unfolding in Jammu and Kashmir can also be read as the consequence of New Delhi’s peace process. In its effort to make peace with the Islamist-led secessionist movement in Kashmir, this counter-intuitive argument suggests, India ended up fuelling competitive communalism in each of the State’s three regions.

In January 2004, Hurriyat chairman Mirwaiz Umar Farooq arrived in New Delhi for the secessionist coalition’s first, historic dialogue with the Government of India. “It is indeed a breakthrough,” the Srinagar-based cleric said hours before his meeting with Deputy Prime Minister L.K. Advani, “unprecedented in the recent history of Kashmir.” Two words and some seven million people were missing from the Mirwaiz’s comments, and the five-member delegation he led to New Delhi. Jammu and Ladakh, home to over half the State’s population, had no place in the APHC team — nor on New Delhi’s list of concerns.

New Delhi’s engagement with the APHC, which began in 1998, sought to secure the support of Kashmiri separatists for an autonomy-based peace deal. From the outset, though, it was clear that the Hurriyat did not represent all the peoples of Jammu and Kashmir. Even the APHC accepted this fact. “If the government is not ready to allow self-determination,” secessionist leader Abdul Gani Lone said in mid-2002, “the alternative is that it should be ready to settle the dispute through a meaningful dialogue involving all parties concerned.”

But Pakistan and India both feared genuine multi-party dialogue. Pakistan worried that the Shia-dominated Northern Areas of Gilgit, Hunza and Baltistan would demand autonomy and the expulsion of ethnic Punjabi settlers. It was also concerned that the province of Azad Kashmir would seek to diminish the Pakistan government’s influence. India, in turn, believed that accommodating the claims of Ladakh and Jammu would make it impossible to move forward on an autonomy deal.
Chauvinist postures

Meanwhile, mainstream parties within Kashmir adopted increasingly chauvinist postures to strengthen their flanks anticipating that New Delhi would give power to the APHC after a peace deal. In 1999, the National Conference passed a report calling for the re-organisation of Jammu and Kashmir into new provinces based on its ethnic, religious divisions. Its leaders hoped their proposals — which mirrored long-standing proposals to partition the State on religious lines — would strengthen their claims to be spokespersons for the State’s Muslims. At once, it moved to sabotage a future New Delhi-APHC deal by passing a report calling for the restoration of pre-1953 levels of autonomy. Among other things, the report means the end of the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court of India and the supervisory role of the Election Commission of India.

New Delhi’s pursuit of peace with the APHC also energised Hindu chauvinists in Jammu, who argued that Jammu and Kashmir’s principal religious minority would be unsafe in a political order dominated by the APHC. Ever since 1996, the tempo of Islamist terror strikes against Hindu villagers in Jammu had escalated. Hundreds were killed in the attacks, which were intended to drive out Hindus from areas north of the Chenab river and thus bring about the de facto communal partition of Jammu and Kashmir.

When the People’s Democratic Party-Congress government took power in 2002, the Hindutva campaign accelerated. Chief Minister Mufti Mohammad Sayeed’s calls for demilitarisation and self-rule were seen by Hindus in Jammu and Buddhists in Ladakh as a direct threat. Neither the PDP, the National Conference nor the Congress attempted to address these fears — ensuring that the Hindutva movement had a free ride.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s Round Table Conference process was intended to obtain an endorsement of the New Delhi-APHC dialogue from mainstream parties. Among other things, it set up a working group to discuss Centre-State relations, in the hope of evolving an agreed blueprint which the APHC could then be pressured to accept. However, each political group put forward plans with significant communal implications, addressed to its respective constituencies.

At the working group’s March 2007 meeting in New Delhi, National Conference leader Abdul Rahim Rather reiterated his party’s demand for levels of autonomy bordering on independence. PDP leader Muzaffar Husain Beig, for his part, called for the creation of new district and region-level elected bodies — but offered no concrete vision of the State’s constitutional relationship with New Delhi. Chief Information Commissioner Wajahat Habibullah, for his part, made a presentation advocating the setting up of two provincial assemblies in Jammu, one for the Hindu-dominated plains and one for its Muslim-majority mountains. He also advocated the creation of separate assemblies for Leh and Kargil. Jammu politicians saw these proposals — fairly or otherwise — as manifestos for perpetuating ethnic-Kashmiri hegemony since they would have stripped the region of its de facto parity with Kashmir.

An impasse had been reached. Given the fifth working group’s inability to arrive at a formulation that fitted the course of the New Delhi-APHC engagement, it was simply allowed to die. New Delhi deferred the RTC dialogue process until after the Assembly elections scheduled for October. Islamists in Kashmir, though, feared that the elections would lead to their annihilation, and began sharpening their knives. To anyone other than Prime Minister Singh’s house-intellectuals, whose eyes seemed to have been paper-clipped shut, the brewing crisis was evident.

Where might things go from here? Advocates of talking to the APHC point out, correctly, that New Delhi has long succeeded in managing religion-fuelled crisis in Kashmir using similar political instruments. On December 27, 1963, a relic reputed to be a hair of Prophet Mohammad disappeared from Kashmir’s Hazratbal shrine. Mobs took control of Srinagar, while clerics and anti-India politicians ran what one contemporary described as “an unauthorised parallel administration, controlling traffic prices and commerce.”

As it happened, the moe-e-muqaddas was discovered by Indian investigators. However, Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru understood that more was needed. He noted that if the “theft of a relic provokes the people to the extent of trying to overthrow the government, it is time to adopt a new approach.” Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah, Jammu and Kashmir’s most important political leader, was released from the prison where he had spent over a decade on sedition charges.

New Delhi used similar tactics to defuse a crisis that at first glance resembles the ongoing one. In May 1973, massive protests broke out after an Anantnag college student discovered a supposedly blasphemous picture in a colonial-era encyclopaedia. Protesters demanded that the long deceased author of the encyclopaedia be hanged. The police eventually had to use fire to disperse the violent crowds, leading to four fatalities.

Like the protests we have seen this summer, the Book of Knowledge riots were the outcome of a long-running Islamist mobilisation. Jamaat-e-Islami politicians claimed, just as Tehreek-i-Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani did before the Shrine Board protests, that India had been working to destroy Kashmir’s Islamic identity. Jamaat politicians even alleged, scholar Yoginder Sikand has recorded, “that the government of India had dispatched a team to Andalusia, headed by the Kashmiri Pandit [politician] D.P. Dhar, to investigate how Islam was driven out of Spain and to suggest measures as to how the Spanish experiment could be repeated in Kashmir, too.”

Indira Gandhi responded by initiating a dialogue which led to Sheikh Abdullah becoming Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, in return for his endorsement of an agreement which affirmed the State’s accession to India. Abdullah then proceeded to wage an effective, if authoritarian, anti-Islamist campaign — a campaign that, it is worth noting parenthetically, eventually led to deepening communal tensions in both Kashmir and Jammu.

However attractive these models might now appear, New Delhi must resist the seduction. More likely than not, political concessions to the APHC would feed a fresh Hindutva mobilisation in Jammu. Political parties within Kashmir like the PDP and the National Conference would also adopt competitive communal postures, to defend their constituency from secessionist predation. Peacemaking, experts have long warned us, has a price. New Delhi must consider just what it — and the peoples of Jammu and Kashmir — can afford to pay.

another confusing article...Not sure of what he is tryig to say..

Is it just me or do the last 2-3 articles of Swami look to have been written for the sake of it with no theme to the article?

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 29 Aug 2008 09:20

Special Forces used for final assault

Police have recovered three mobile telephones with local BSNL SIM cards from the possession of three militants gunned down last night by Army at Chinore whose numbers have given very vital information to the investigating officials. Through the three mobile telephones, the Pakistanis, frequently received directions from Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) network both within J&K and across the border with the latest direction being to kill all civilians including four children before getting eliminated by the troops.

IGP Jammu K Rajendera added that the militants received a number of calls throughout the day including some calls from a Thoraya satellite telephone. He declined to disclose the mobile numbers on the ground that police was extracting entire data from them and it would expose militants’ contacts including the persons, who might have helped them spent 30 hours in Kanachak and reveal their ‘exact motive’ in Jammu.

One of the three mobile telephones in the possession of slain ultras was 9469289726. Official sources told the Excelsior that a LeT commander had dialled mobile telephone of an electronic media’s Reporter from his Thoraya satellite phone and gave them one of the number (9469289726) asking the Reporter to speak to the militant inside.

Sources said as soon as the militants entered the house and took positions inside, they received a direction on their phone from one of the commander to eliminate all male adult members and keep women and children hostages. Thereafter, they opened firing and gunned down Ashok Kumar Manhas of Thathri, a teacher putting up as a tenant in Billoo Ram’s house, Sandeep Singh alias Kala, a neighbour of Billoo and Sham Murari, a brave jawan of Territorial Army, who had all alone intruded into the house while chasing the militants from Domana in a bid to rescue the children. However, Murari was trapped inside as he had no weapon with him.

At this stage, sources said, militants asked Tarsem Lal, brother of Sunita Devi (wife of Billoo Ram) to come out of a room they had bolted from inside and taken shelter after the killing of three persons. However, acting tactfully, Tarsem pulled all four children of Billoo Ram and his wife Sunita Devi besides himself into the adjoining kitchen after coming out of the room and locked the kitchen from inside.

In another important development, Army today revealed that they had flown 10 highly trained ‘para commandos’, who were part of a ‘Special Force’ from Chandigarh to launch the final assault in killing two militants in the evening and simultaneously ensuring that the hostages are saved.

"The ‘para commandos’, numbering 10, three of them officers, were flown here from Chandigarh within an hour and executed the operation so meticulously that it didn’t give any chance to the ultras to kill the civilians. While the second ultra was killed around 7.30 pm, the remaining militant was eliminated few minutes later", sources said, adding the troops announced end of the operation in the mid-night as they wanted to ensure that there was no ultra left inside.

Meanwhile, bodies of all three militants have been shifted to GMC Jammu where post-mortem was conducted on them this afternoon. The bodies will be kept in the GMC for 72 hours. Two of them had sustained 10-12 shots while the militant killed in the day had sustained numerous bullet wounds.

Billoo’s eldest daughter, Sheetal Devi, who was just 9, wanted to become an Army officer after seeing yesterday’s brutal acts by the Pakistanis. She was witness to three killings and injuries to her mother.

"Even now I’m feeling gun shots in my ears", she said, adding she would like to be an Army officer to teach a lesson to the militants. People were all praise for Sunita Devi’s brother, Tarsem Lal, who displayed courage and kept the children locked inside, thus, exposing them from coming in direct contact with the militants.

G Subramaniam · Post by **G Subramaniam** » 29 Aug 2008 09:32

The price of making peace in Jammu & Kashmir

Praveen Swami

--

What we can take away from all this is that due to dhimmi mentality instead
of trying to crush the islamists, GOI , including BJP, has tried to appease islamists

and appeasing islamists is no long term solution

For starters, remove Indian security to the Hurriyat rats, if the ISI kills them. good riddance

disha · Post by **disha** » 29 Aug 2008 10:21

Gerard wrote:Lathis land on Valley, by air

For a brief moment I thought this was "rods from gods" to the valley and beyond into Bakistan!

disha · Post by **disha** » 29 Aug 2008 10:29

ramana wrote:Why do they call the hostages killed when they were murdered by the terrorists? The word killed is used as 'killed in action' etc implying its was a side effect. Here the hostages were murdered.

Murder is pre-meditated killing of a specific person/persons, while killing is on the spur.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 29 Aug 2008 10:59

Vsudhir,

how about this one ? Two different statements came from two different sources. One from foreign ministry and second from India's UN representative.

India says UNCHR remark on J&K 'irresponsible

NEW DELHI: A livid India came down heavily on the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (UNCHR) for its remarks on the situation in J&K. The foreign ministry on Thursday described the remarks as "uncalled for and irresponsible" saying India did not need any advice on protection and promotion of human rights of its citizens.

Sources said India has asked its permanent representative to the UN, Nirupam Sen, to lodge a strong protest with the secretary-general. "We want to convey in no uncertain terms to the secretary-general that India is thoroughly displeased," a senior government official said.

What has exacerbated the situation for India is that the remarks came just before the UN human rights council meet in Geneva on September 8. According to Indian officials, the UNCHR remarks have given a new life to Pakistan which is sure to take up the issue in a big way at the UN meet. "They will surely look upon it as a golden opportunity to rake up the issue on a UN platform, something which has been denied to them for several years," the official added.

The UNCHR statement was made by the acting high commissioner for human rights but what has angered India is that the person had no locus standi on the issue as a new high commissioner would take charge on September 1. UN secretary-general Ban-Ki Moon refrained from making any comment. When asked why the secretary-general did not make any comment, it was said that his not making a statement did not mean that he wasn't concerned about the situation.

The UNCHR had remarked about the violation of rights by security forces while dealing with the unrest there.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 29 Aug 2008 13:02

Billoo’s eldest daughter, Sheetal Devi, who was just 9, wanted to become an Army officer after seeing yesterday’s brutal acts by the Pakistanis. She was witness to three killings and injuries to her mother.

"Even now I’m feeling gun shots in my ears", she said, adding she would like to be an Army officer to teach a lesson to the militants. People were all praise for Sunita Devi’s brother, Tarsem Lal, who displayed courage and kept the children locked inside, thus, exposing them from coming in direct contact with the militants.

Now this is what i call a brave blood because of whom India is safe and secure. Jaihind and i would love to see her graduate from Army college with top honours.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Aug 2008 13:06

i wonder if kiyani's accession offer to unkil is 'give me kashmir and i'll properly once and for all deliver everything you want from GOAT'?

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 29 Aug 2008 13:31

If he is planning to do it we are bound to raise the Baloch issue in United Nations. I think India should arm them from top to bottom to rock paki ar** from comitting anything related to Kashmir.

satya · Post by **satya** » 29 Aug 2008 15:15

Kosovo's independence is a signal to Russia, China & India and will act as a lab experiment to bring out such small independent states in future .

KV wont ever go to TSP for its just too imp. to be left in hands of pukees under present geo-political situation . We will definitely see some sort of special status for KV . The trial balloon for KV's independence is actually intended to give special status with bare min. control from GoI in real terms

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Aug 2008 00:08

Op-Ed from Central Chronicle, Madhya Pradesh

Aspiration of Jammu

Aspiration of Jammu
The simmering anger that has manifested itself on the Jammu streets since the beginning of this month is the culmination of the region's perceived "neglect and dominance by the Kashmir Valley ."
Not many may truly understand the reason for the intense violence, the chakka jams and the women protests in an otherwise peaceful Jammu region. Right since Independence , the State of Jammu and Kashmir has posed problems for the Indian nation. These problems arose because the State did not become a part of the Union on August 15 1947 , but on October 26 1947 .

The genesis of what is called the Kashmir problem can be traced back to the events that happened between these two dates. The erstwhile Maharaja of Kashmir Hari Singh signed the document of accession with India on October 26, after Pakistani intruders killed his subjects mercilessly in Mirpur, Muzzafarabad, Kotli and marched from Baramulla towards Srinagar .

Today, the nomenclature the Kashmir problem as we know it is misleading and does not help. Kashmir as a shorthand for describing J&K creates its own problems as it excludes the regions of Jammu and Ladakh altogether. It also excludes the areas of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK), Gilgit, Baltistan and Hunza etc (collectively called the Northern Areas) which were a part of the State of J&K on August 14, 1947 .

The Kashmiri separatist leaders, including the moderate Hurriyat Conference leader Mirwaiz Moulvi Omar Farooq, readily admit that it is not the Kashmir Valley (comprising an area of only 15,948 sq kms) alone which is the bone of contention. The Jammu region spans over 26,293 sq kms, Ladakh (comprising Leh and Kargil districts) is over 80,000 sq kms, but has a very small population. Thus, the State of J&K (on 14 August 1947 ) ruled by the Maharaja was over 2,22,000 sq kms.

The genesis of the immediate problem is the revocation of the land transfer order by the to State Forest Department the Shri Amarnath Shrine Board (SASB). The Jammu region erupted in flames subsequent to the State Government cancelling the "diversion of land to the SASB," apparently to quell the fires then raging in the Kashmir Valley against this May 26 order.

However, as the agitation in Kashmir died, it gave birth to a counter-agitation in Jammu . The Government failed to communicate to the people of Jammu that the land order did not confer "propriety rights to the SASB'' in respect of the 800 kanals of land "diverted for use during the yatra." Worse, it failed to scotch rumours and educate the masses that the SASB was getting the land only ``for use during the yatra."

Leading to the Jammu interpreting the revocation of the order as the Government bowing before the separatists in the Valley. And an affront to the religious sentiments of the Hindus in the State. The region comprises 10 districts of which Jammu and Kathua are Hindu-majority areas. In Udhampur too, the number of Hindus is fairly high and in the other eight districts the two communities live together and the population ratio varies widely.

Besides, with people of other religions like Sikhs and Christians also present in fairly large numbers, the Jammu region has been, by and large, secular. People of different ethnicities, religions and linguistic groups have continued to settle here, right since 1947. Successive waves of migrants settled in the Capital city of Jammu and other areas in 1947, 1965, 1971, 1990 (Kashmiri Pandits) and 1999 (border migrants after the Kargil war).

The Dogras embraced successive migrants with open arms, often much to their own detriment. The land prices have sky-rocketed, infrastructure is under strain and competition for jobs and education intense. The Kashmiri Muslims have also constructed houses and bought properties in Jammu , mainly because they feel safer here than Kashmir . Their children study in Jammu schools and tuition centres, without feeling threatened.

There have been no communal clashes in Jammu or its periphery, even after grave provocations like attacks on the symbol of Dogra pride and culture, the venerated Raghunath temple, in 2002. It is a tribute to the secular ethos of the region that the counter-attack to kill those who had intruded into the temple was led by the then Jammu SSP Farooq Khan. Even as the encounter continued, and the militants were felled, there were no reports of any communal clashes anywhere. Besides, a majority of Jammuites see India as their motherland. This is in sharp contrast to a section of Kashmiris, who repeatedly challenge the accession of J&K to India on October 26, 1947 .

The people of Jammu believe they have made sacrifices for the Indian nation. When militancy broke out in the Valley in 1990, several Dogra officers were posted in Kashmir . A fairly large number of policemen who died while fighting the militants in Kashmir were Dogras, including Pahari Muslims from Poonch and Rajouri, besides the Doda district. Despite this, the Dogras believe that they are taken for granted by both the State and Central Governments which always make policies aimed at ``appeasing the separatists in Kashmir.''

This perceived "loading the dice in favour of the Kashmiris" is something the Jammuites strongly resent. Especially against the backdrop that the region is bigger than the Valley. While the total number of voters in Jammu stood at 30,91,193, the number of voters in Kashmir was 29,86,670 in 2002. Yet, the region had only 37 seats in the State Assembly as opposed to 46 for the Kashmir Valley . Adding insult to injury, while the Valley sends three MPs to the Lok Sabha Jammu has to suffice with two MPs.

This political imbalance of having more voters but getting to elect fewer legislators (both MLAs and MPs) due to a skewed delimitation of constituencies is something the Jammu people now want a change in. They want fresh delimitation of constituencies leading to a more equitable power-sharing arrangement. Besides, they also want higher representation in the State Government services which as presently are heavily tilted in favour of the people from the Valley.

At another level, the Valley consumes more electricity than Jammu . The target set by the Government for collection (during 2007-08) was Rs 519 crores and Rs 417 crores, respectively. While the collection from Jammu was Rs 443 crores only Rs 246 crores were collected from the Valley.

This has added to the list of grievances in Jammu where a feeling has gained ground, and obviously not without reasons, that its adherence to the idea of the Indian Nation State is being taken for granted. In contrast, the Valley is meted out preferential treatment and its people given concessions aimed at "appeasement."

Clearly, this grouse of the Jammu people needs to be understood, in the right perspective, and remedial measures taken. Besides, the media, on its part, too has not given the region its due weightage with most journalists preferring to report from the Valley. In sum, the time has now come to invest in trying to understand the aspirations of the Jammu region, as distinctly different from the Kashmir Valley.

Sant Kumar Sharma, -INFA

What really forced the Jammu people to protest so vigorously? And the protest was composite. And thats the important thing being lost sight of. yes it was about the lease revocation for the SASB, but the protests were from all groups and not just the Hindus.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 30 Aug 2008 00:21

Let me record here my complete 793% endorsement of the Hyooman Rites Orgynice-ashun's call for a Complete Investigation and FULL Report.

In fact I wish BRF peepal would actually do something useful (OW! I can feel the shock wave from Jagan-e-BRFeePandoo Lathi swinging already) and help in developing and posting this Report FAST.

The Hindu American Foundation (HAF) in the US has in fact already done a fabulous job of Investigating All Incidents to some extent. Plus the Jammu-Kashmir Exhibition by Francois Gautier provides an excellent source of documentation.

I can provide excerpts from Sheikh Abdullah's book "Flames of The Chinar" for some of the early incidents.

But it had never occurred to me that we should do what the Pakis, FOIL, FOSA, and all other twerps have been doing so successfully; PUBLISH HYOOMAN RITES REPORTS.

Can a focused team of people actually come up with a fast, large report with pictures and numbers and tables, and publish it. Can be a continuing work-in-progress with updates.

But this is the real need of the hour, not all this yada-yada-yada on scenarios and Trial Balloons etc. As Jagan would say, "Move Yer Bloomin' *****" etc.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Aug 2008 08:33

Why Kashmir is up in flames
By Colonel Dr Anil A Athale (retd)

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Aug 2008 09:50

As expected, the govt starts to buckle to the Paki flag waving crowds:
Link

The troubled road to trans-LoC trade

Praveen Swami

Will Kashmir shrine crisis open the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road for business?

India will be pushing Pakistan to deliver on its promise to open up the LoC

Pakistan has yet to complete construction of a customs station and parking bays on its side

NEW DELHI: Since August residents of the village of Salamabad have been waiting for the arrival of hundreds of smoke-belching cargo trucks, the unlikely harbingers of a better future.

Like hundreds of thousands across Jammu and Kashmir, Salamabad residents hope that the scheduled opening of trade across the Line of Control will transform what the former United States President Bill Clinton described as the “world’s most dangerous place” into a zone of peace and prosperity.

Cross-border trade, it is starting to appear, could also hold the key to defusing the murderous shrine-land crisis that has claimed dozens of lives across the State in recent weeks.

In an effort to assuage Muslim anger in Kashmir, ahead of a deal with Hindu protesters in Jammu, India will be pushing Pakistan to deliver on its promise to open up the LoC.

Earlier this month, protesters initiated a march towards the LoC, responding to a call by the hardline Tehreek-i-Hurriyat patriarch Syed Ali Shah Geelani to force the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road open for trade.

Mr. Geelani, speaking for a coalition of secessionist groups and orchard-owners’ bodies, said the march was necessary to break an economic blockade of the Kashmir Valley by Hindutva groups. Five people, including All Parties Hurriyat Conference leader Sheikh Abdul Aziz, were shot dead when police opened fire to stop the march. More than 30 people died in subsequent fighting.
Bureaucratic stalling

Had it not been for bureaucratic stalling by Pakistan, though, the LoC would have opened weeks before the march even began.

India and Pakistan agreed to open the route for limited trade at a July 21 meeting of their Foreign Secretaries.

Pakistan said it would allow just nine commodities including fruit, across the LoC — well short of India’s more expansive plans.

Even this modest beginning, though, marked progress. Pakistan had stonewalled forward movement, even refusing permits to a delegation of Kashmir-based businessman, who wished to meet their counterparts in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

Less than a week after the Foreign Secretaries met, a team of top Indian officials, led by Ministry of Home Affairs Joint Secretary R. Shakandan met on July 25 at Uri. Orders were given to initiate construction of parking bays, warehouses and a customs office at Salamabad, just short of the LoC. A follow-up meeting on security issues, involving customs, police and military officials, was held on July 27.
Backed down

However, Pakistan backed down on its commitment to open the road on August 21, citing logistic constraints. Both sides agreed to postpone opening the LoC until October 1.

Army sources told The Hindu that Pakistan had yet to complete construction of a customs station and parking bays on its side — raising fears that cross-border movement of cargo could be delayed even further. India will be pushing Pakistan hard to make sure that does not happen.
Volte face

Ironically, the Islamist leadership India will be seeking to placate was, not too long ago, bitterly opposed to opening up the LoC. In 2005, after India and Pakistan announced that bus links across the LoC were to be resumed, Mr. Geelani lashed out at the plan as “a diversion from the core issue.”

“People have not given their blood for the reopening of a road,” he said, “but for self-determination.” On another occasion, he described the issue as “an irrelevant drama.”

Several civil society organisations now involved in the shrine board movement shared this perception. In April 2005, the Kashmir Bar Association, the Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society, the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons and the Jammu and Kashmir Trade Union Front issued a joint statement calling the opening of the road “untimely and inconsequential.”

Jihadist groups supportive of Mr. Geelani were more blunt in their approach. In a March 30, 2005, press release, the Save Kashmir Movement, al-Nasireen, the Farzandan-e-Millat and al-Arifeen warned potential bus travellers that “they will find their names in the list of traitors.”

Jihadists later attacked and destroyed the Tourism Reception Centre in Srinagar. It was to have served as the terminus for the bus service.

Wonder what miracle will this road opening provide? Do these fruit growing turds even have a market in the impoverished PoK?

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Aug 2008 09:54

Another article on the same "deal":
Link

Vohra sounds out political leaders on shrine-land issue

NEW DELHI: India will press Pakistan to expedite the opening of the Line of Control (LoC) for trade as part of a closely-guarded deal intended to defuse the communally-charged shrine-land agitation in Jammu and Kashmir.

Highly places government sources said the deal would allow the Shri Amarnathji Shrine Board to use temporarily forest land to house pilgrims, but at once open up the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road for commercial traffic, thus meeting the demands of the competing religious-chauvinist movements that have set the State ablaze over the past eight weeks.

Governor N.N. Vohra, the sources said, sounded out political leaders in Jammu and Kashmir on the proposals at meetings held in Srinagar on Wednesday and Thursday.

While the People’s Democratic Party refused to participate, the issue is believed to have figured in talks between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the PDP patron Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, on Friday.

Informal discussions were also held with jailed secessionist leaders Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Syed Ali Shah Geelani, the sources said.

An announcement on an agreement arrived at between the government and the Shri Amarnath Sangharsh Samiti, which is leading the Jammu protests, has been deferred until a consensus is arrived at on the LoC trade deal.

“We do not want to push through an asymmetric agreement and provoke a backlash in Kashmir,” a top official told The Hindu.

Officially, the government insists that talks with the Samiti had been deferred owing to the ill- health of its key negotiator, Sudhir Bloeria.

Jammu-based Hindutva groups launched a movement in July, demanding that the government roll back an order reversing the permission it had granted to the shrine board for use of forest land. Among other things, its leaders threatened an economic blockade of the Valley to press their claims.

Islamist groups in Kashmir capitalised on the threat to launch a massive counter-mobilisation. On August 11, secessionist leader Sheikh Abdul Aziz and four others were killed when police used force to stop a march across the LoC. Over 30 people were killed in subsequent violence.

The only message i see from all this is more the forward we go, the more the politicians are stuck in the equal-equal mode.....

No wonder, the Pakis of the valley will protest for everything since they will readily be provided the same to maintain "harmony".

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Aug 2008 10:22

Gerard wrote:Why Kashmir is up in flames
By Colonel Dr Anil A Athale (retd)

From the article:

On April 1, 1979, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was hanged by military dictator Zia-ul Haq. His hanging sparked off large-scale violence in the Kashmir valley. Those owing allegiance to the Jamaat-i-Islami, led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani, were the main target of attack. Their houses were destroyed by firebombs. The provocation: The Jamaat had distributed sweets to celebrate Bhutto's hanging. It was the Indian Army that rescued Geelani and his people.

If only we had done long term strategic thinking and let history take its course....

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 30 Aug 2008 13:40

HYOOMAN RITES REPORTS.

The jammu case 27-28 august .

komal · Post by **komal** » 30 Aug 2008 17:00

I'm confused. Why does GOP oppose opening of this road from Kashmir?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Aug 2008 17:07

From Anil Athale's article above

The late Hamid Dalwai, a Muslim reformist from Maharashtra, recounted his encounters in Kashmir that aptly sums up the reasons for Kashmiri flip-flop. He asked several people as to why they were unhappy in India. The answer given to him by one shikara owner was that they had everything going for them in India, "but after all, must we not care for the flag of Islam?"

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 30 Aug 2008 21:09

Secular India in its full colors.

India: Terrorising Muslims in the name of countering terrorism

In the face of a seemingly unending wave of fake encounters, killings and arrests of innocent Muslims across the country falsely accused by the police of being 'terrorists', a three-day Peoples' Tribunal was recently held in Hyderabad on 'Atrocities Committed Against Minorities in the Name of Fighting Terrorism'.

Organised by three noted Delhi-based human rights organisations, ANHAD, Peace and the Human Rights Law Network, it brought together eminent journalists, retired judges and social activists who listened to the testimonies of over 40 Muslims from different parts of India who have been victimised or whose relatives have been brutally terrorised by the police and the state machinery in the name of combating 'terrorism'.

Likewise, Justice (Retd.) Sardar Ali accused powerful elements in the police and the state apparatus of seeking to 'destroy the fundamental character of the Indian Constitution' and even claimed that 'an undeclared emergency has been declared against the Muslims of the country'. This, in turn, he remarked, 'poses a grave danger to the very concept of India.' And, voicing the same concern, Justice (Retd.) S.N.Bhargava gave a similar verdict, stating that Muslims in large parts of India were 'living in fear' and were being effectively denied their right to live with honour and dignity.

archan · Post by **archan** » 30 Aug 2008 21:23

Somehow they know for sure that they were innocent 'victims'. After all the bombers have no religion, even though they say Allah-O-Akbar.

killings and arrests of innocent Muslims across the country falsely accused

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Aug 2008 22:22

Khairnar also raised the case of the Nanded blasts, in which some Bajrang Dal activists who were making bombs in order to attack mosques were killed.

Somehow,after the Gujarat riots, the next best thing the "secular crowd" seem to have latched onto is the arrest of few Bajrang Dal activists..

Expect this arguement to be beaten to death while justifying any act till the next bogey comes along!!!

Wonder when this elite panel will conduct a hearing in Jammu/Kashmir regarding the plight of the "minorities" of that state?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 30 Aug 2008 22:50

Link

NEW DELHI: India will press Pakistan to expedite the opening of the Line of Control (LoC) for trade as part of a closely-guarded deal intended to defuse the communally-charged shrine-land agitation in Jammu and Kashmir.

Highly places government sources said the deal would allow the Shri Amarnathji Shrine Board to use temporarily forest land to house pilgrims, but at once open up the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road for commercial traffic, thus meeting the demands of the competing religious-chauvinist movements that have set the State ablaze over the past eight weeks.

The soundbite we hear from these new articles are very disturbing...

Why is GOI doing a equal-equal between vally and jammu populations? The first precondition to cross-border trade should be to punish the pakistani-nationals within indian valley.

Why is BJP so quite in such an important policy decision??? are they in bed with this so-called secular responses to valley "aspirations"???

really saddened with the level of disrespect for the majority-hindu sentiments in its own country...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 30 Aug 2008 23:06

Talks are under progress between AYSS and representatives of Governor after dlay of 2 days.

Points of talks offered by govt. had nothing to do with demands of AYSS. I wonder what are they going to talk about now.

AYSS is also organising a big protest rally tomorrow. Expect fireworks if talks remain unconclusive.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 31 Aug 2008 07:53

NDTV is reporting that deal is done!
Samiti has suspended agitation
Celebrations are not being allowed as they fear presence of militants in jammu
Additional Army has been deployed

Amarnath Yatra Board will get the "exclusive right" to use the land for the 3 month's duration
The title of land will remain with the state govt
Kashmili leaders are objecting against the word "exclusive"

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 31 Aug 2008 08:06

You can bet that TSP is already giving orders to pigLeTs to launch a massive attack on the yatra next time. WE can expect attacks on temples, Hindu weddings etc. in Jammu.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 31 Aug 2008 08:25

Daily Excelsior

Sixty two days long agitation and 39 days consecutive bandh, during which majority areas of Jammu region not only put up a united face but converted the strike into a mass movement which spread even in rural and remote areas creating history, has finally led to the victory of the people of the region with the Government and Shri Amarnath Yatra Sangarsh Samiti (SAYSS) striking an agreement at 4.40 am on Sunday morning.

Soon after the agreement was signed between the two sides, the Samiti leaders hugged each other and loudly chanted ‘Bum Bum Bhole’. Majority of Samiti leaders agreed that tomorrow’s ‘Sangarsh rally’ at MA stadium, on which the administration was undecided to allow it or not, could well be a ‘Victory rally’ dropping enough hints that two months long agitation has ended positively.

While majority of demands of the Sangarsh Samiti have been conceded, the core issue of restoration of 800 kanals of land to Shri Amarnath Shrine Board (SASB) has been addressed with the Government agreeing to set aside 800 kanals of land at Baltal for exclusive use of the SASB.

Both sides signed the agreement at Guest House, the venue of talks, which was already thronged by a large number of youths who had started dancing to the tunes of ‘dhols’ and drum beats after getting reports that the Shrine Board has got the land back, a core issue of the people of majority parts of Jammu region for which they had been observing 39 days of continuous bandh and agitating for the last 62 days. Prior to 39 days of consecutive bandh, Jammu had observed bandh for nine days from June 30 to July 8. The previous bandh was called off after the fall of Ghulam Nabi Azad led coalition Government on July 7.

All powers of the Shrine Board will remain unchanged as per the proposed agreement. The Board, whose members had resigned during the agitation to facilitate its re-constitution, will continue to be headed by the Governor, who will have free powers to choose the members. All powers of the Board as they existed before Amarnath land row controversy erupted will remain unchanged, sources said.

They added that there will be no change in autonomous status of the Board.

Regarding withdrawal of cases registered by police against the protesters during the agitation, sources said, the Government has agreed to withdraw bailable offences as well as the PSA detention. For few cases including criminal it proposed to set up Nodal Officers. The Government has agreed to set up Nodal Officers as per the choice of the Samiti.

A judicial inquiry has already been ordered on police role and desecration of the dead body of Kuldeep Dogra on July 23 night. Dogra had ended his life in support of the movement on July 23 afternoon at Samiti’s dharna venue at Parade Chowk fuelling the agitation and since then Jammu has been observing a complete bandh.

The Government has also worked out modalities for compensation to traders and transporters etc, who have suffered heavy losses during over two months long agitation. The Government was also ready for compensation to dead and injured in firing and violence during the agitation, sources said.

Earlier Agitations By Jammu Against Islamo-Fascists In Kashmir

Praja Parishad agitation against withdrawal of permit system, abrogation of Article 370 of the Constitution granting special status to the State and ‘Ek Vidhan, Ek Pardhan Ek Nishaan’ from October 28, 1952 to June 24, 1953. Sixteen persons were killed and scores others were injured while a large number of agitationists including Pt Shyama Prasad Mukherjee were arrested. Mukherjee had died under mysterious circumstances on the intervening night of June 22 and 23 in a temporary jail at Nishat Bagh. The agitation had ended on June 24, 1953 following a call from the then Prime Minister Jawahar Lal Nehru. The agitation was a success as permit system and ‘Sadar-e-Riyasat’ were abolished while Article 370 continued.

Another important agitation in Jammu was launched in November 1987 when the then Farooq Abdullah Government had decided to keep the Civil Secretariat permanently in Srinagar. After over a fortnight long agitation, the then Union Home Minister and Congress leader Buta Singh had rushed to Jammu and his intervention had resolved the agitation leading to maintenance of status quo i.e. shifting of Durbar offices to half a year in Jammu and another half year in Srinagar. However, bandh in Jammu then was mostly confined to City and peripheries.

In 1968, people in Jammu had launched an agitation against discrimination with Jammu region after which the Government had set up Gajender Gadkar Commission.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 31 Aug 2008 08:41

IeD Mubarak!

at once open up the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road for commercial traffic,

Abdul bin Kabul and all his cousins will be rushing now to this roadside. So many more vacuum bursts to implement, so many vehicles to target!

AllahoAkbar!

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Aug 2008 10:44

at once open up the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad road for commercial traffic,

What commercial traffic do they expect on this road when the existing bus service is running empty?

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 31 Aug 2008 12:43

Either shipments of drugs, fake currency or terrorists.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 31 Aug 2008 23:13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIOg18rmHT8

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Sep 2008 03:42

Azadi to terrorise India

Wilson John

The pro-azadi slogans we hear and the Pakistani flags we see in the Kashmir Valley are self-contradictory. Or are they? What Farooq, Malik and Shah dream of is no different from what Geelani hopes for: Kashmir becoming Pakistani territory

A lot has been written about the protests and the cry for azadi in theKashmir Valley in the national and international media. The arguments and counter-arguments have been loud, often raucous, and almost rabidly emotional, clouding in the process certain important facts which the people of Jammu & Kashmir, and India, should know.

Of great urgency is to understand the conspiracy behind the violence and pro-Pakistani voices in the Kashmir Valley. The loud calls for azadi and more shrill pro-Pakistan slogans are contradictory in their very nature, and therefore betray the conflicting stands taken by the various self-appointed leaders of Kashmiris and the helping hand of Pakistani terrorist groups like Lashkar-e-Tayyeba which have been the ISI's key instruments in propagating anti-India sentiments and violence.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani, the key proponent of azadi, is a Pakistani stooge and has been playing the Islamabad tune for quite some time despite his secessionist rhetoric, which should have put any ordinary Indian behind bars without bail under the National Security Act. He wants Kashmir to become another 'federally administered' colony of Pakistan like FATA or Pak-Occupied Kashmir where people do not even have the fundamental right of expression -- if someone dares to do so, as Mr Geelani and his acolytes indulge in with abundance on this side, they would be summarily shot or stand trial for treason.

So should be the case of All-Party Hurriyat Conference leaders Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, former Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front leader Yasin Malik and Shabbir Shah who have been misleading the people over the issue of Sri Amarnath Shrine Board land allotment and inciting them to protest and indulge in violence against India. Umar Farooq, Yasin Malik and Shabbir Shah have been quick to scamper on to the Geelani bandwagon but espouse a different agenda of independence. As in the past, they are leading the gullible people of Kashmir on a path of violence, instigated by forces which are inimical to India.

One such potent force is the LeT, created by Osama bin Laden during the Afghan jihad and supported by the Pakistani Army and the ISI since then. All the Kashmiri leaders have been in constant touch with the LeT leadership during the past two months. Geelani, in fact, has been a frequent visitor to Islamabad and other cities in Pakistan, taking part in bogus conferences on Kashmir. He has been particularly active in the ISI-LeT network before and during the renewed violence in Kashmir.

The LeT has been working, assiduously for several years now in Kashmir, marginalising the local militant outfits like Hizb-ul Mujahideen, taking over the responsibility of training and funding of terrorist activities, particularly after 2003, and making deeper inroads into the civil society by establishing mosques and madarsas in the area and front organisations like Kashmir Elder Council. It is well-known that the LeT has been instigating and leading protests over power breakdowns and security operations. Kashmir is the core agenda of the LeT and it has, in its manifesto called Why Are We Doing Jihad, justified violent means to achieve its objective of 'liberating' 'Muslim' land from 'kafir' India.

The group has been consistently holding rallies and conferences on jihad in Kashmir, increasing the rhetoric and actions since early-2007. In February 2007, for instance, the LeT (see www.jamatdawah.org) organised a huge rally in Lahore where LeT chief Hafiz Saeed said: "India does not have any moral right to keep on occupying Kashmir. Pakistan firmly stands with their Kashmiri brethren in their legitimate struggle for the right of self-determination." He said Kashmir could be India's 'atoot ang' (inseparable part) but it is Pakistan's jugular vein.

A message was read out at this rally from Syed Ali Shah Geelani, in which he said: "We will continue our struggle and achieve our freedom even if the whole world decides to oppose us."

In February 2008, the group organised 'Kashmir Solidarity' rallies in 32 towns of PoK. Shabbir Shah and Geelani addressed some of the rallies via phone. The 11-point resolution adopted at the biggest of the rallies, addressed by Geelani, declared that "Pakistan will remain insecure as long as its jugular vein is in the clutches of its arch enemy".

The evidence of the terrorist group's close coordination with elements on the Indian side of Kashmir was betrayed by the LeT's elaborate plans to welcome the 'Muzaffarabad Chalo' march. While a large section of the media projected the march, led by pro-Pakistani Kashmiri leaders, as a 'spontaneous protest', the LeT was clearly preparing for such an event. The group's members, workers and supporters had gathered near the Line of Control in thousands and were chanting, "Sabeeluna, sabeeluna; al-jihad, al-jihad" (Our path, our path; al-jihad, al-jihad) and "Kashmirioun say rishta kya? La ilahe il allah" (Our connection with Kashmiris: There is no god but allah). While Geelani said "India cannot crush the freedom movement of Kashmiris", Umar Farooq said the "relationship of bullet and hatred with India will continue".

It is also quite obvious that the renewed violence in Jammu & Kashmir and the repeated attempts to push in terrorists, trained in camps of Swat and Dir in North-West Frontier Province, are part of a script written by the LeT, often called an Al Qaeda clone, supported and sustained by Pakistan Army ever since its creation in 1993.

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 01 Sep 2008 04:00

pretty good posts abt j&k in this page,specially about the facilities given to kashmiris and what they payback to India,also things like stiff actions to their rants and anti India slogans is welcome,seems like wind's changing and they cannot do what they like to be.
congrats to jammu sangharsh samiti and hats off to all posters presenting very useful data
nationalism must win

armenon · Post by **armenon** » 01 Sep 2008 07:52

As solution formula, Soz is also understood to have favoured inclusion in the Amarnath Shrine Board of a member of the Muslim (Malik) family that had discovered the holy cave shrine about 160 years ago.

This, he feels, would preserve the secular credentials of the Amarnath pilgrimage.

Please enlighten us poor souls about how the hindu piligrimage was a "secular" one before Mr Soz ?

Soz uvacha

disha · Post by **disha** » 01 Sep 2008 09:14

armenon wrote:
As solution formula, Soz is also understood to have favoured inclusion in the Amarnath Shrine Board of a member of the Muslim (Malik) family that had discovered the holy cave shrine about 160 years ago.

This, he feels, would preserve the secular credentials of the Amarnath pilgrimage.
Please enlighten us poor souls about how the hindu piligrimage was a "secular" one before Mr Soz ?

Soz uvacha

Soz situation is more like "dil mein jalan g*nd peh malam" statements ... They have to spout something and IE has to do a balancing act particularly by Gobernmand reaching a compromise in Jammu, the Kashmiri leadership has been held up holding the can. They cannot rake this land issue any more since the land is owned by the state gobernmand and leased to the Amarnath yatra board for the exclusive use for yatris - which is allocating land by other means!

This is actually a significant victory for Jammu since they have proved that there is another area in J&K which requires attention and is more productive than the "K" type. Further this movement isolated the Islamo-fascists and exposed their game plan. From this point onwards - the KV either joins the mainstream or gets further isolated and thus losing its relevance.

The more Soz types spout such statements, the more they are announcing their irrelevance. This guys practically missed the boat!