Blasts in delhi

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 20:28

Sanjay M wrote:
shiv wrote:Please do not say anything to harm the secular fabric of the country. Terrorists have no religion. Terrorists come from any religion. I have reason to suspect that "a certain neighboring country" has ill will towards India. But we believe in peace and friendship. Our secular credentials are second to none. I am sure it is the RSS or BJP who have done this in the name of "Indian Mujahiddeen" just to give a bad name to a certain community
Mr Moderator, I am afraid that I do not regard that as being a very moderate statement.

Why would you say that RSS/BJP have committed such a bombing? It is statements like these which give Indian "secularism" a bad name, since those proclaiming themselves as secularists often make the most unreasonable allegations, based on the flimsiest reasoning.

I am an atheist, but I do not regard the so-called "Indian secularism" to be real secularism, as it is practiced all over the world. In India, "secularism" has been reduced to Hindu-bashing, and has destroyed its own credibility. Wanton accusations that RSS/BJP would have done such things is an example of what Indian "secularism" has deteriorated into.

No. Not a moderate statement in response to a not very moderate incident which will receive moderate secular attention in which everything and everyone will be blamed other than the violent vengeful ideology of Islam which is the trigger for this sort of immoderate incident

Calling a spade a spade is not dharmic or Indic I guess. Did someone suggest that the indics had got it all right and there is no room for learning a few tricks from others?

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 13 Sep 2008 20:28

Before we go after Deobandis, we need to shut down the Ahle Hadees network.

SIMI = Ahle Hadees.

Even the Deobandis who get into SIMI get "converted" to Ahle Hadees (Hanafi to Salafi)

Vikramaditya · Post by **Vikramaditya** » 13 Sep 2008 20:29

Its a case of "Bele yeddu hola meydittu" .... (Those who were supposed to be on our side are actually on the other side )

Perhaps Shivji can translate it better than I can ...

PS: Total newbie here go easy on me ....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 20:30

amitmas wrote:
shiv wrote: Yes. Indian Muslims have no role. There is no involvement of Muslims in India who are totally innocent - all of them. I sleep in peace because of this - just like those 18 in Delhi tonight.

Do you have any idea of how many of these unfortunate 18 were from which section of the society ???
Statements like this IMHO is just what ISI and the likes want. I am in Delhi and beleive me today everyone was running once the news hit be it whatever sect of the society.

Let me guess:

80% Hindu of which 40% forward caste (good riddance) and 20% SC/ST (sad)

15% Muslim (I will lose sleep)

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 20:30

How does it matter to whichever community they belong to? But the religion of perpetrators is all that matters. Killing of Indians even if it involves somebody from the minority religion does not make it secular terrorism

. Enough with this bunkum of terrorism having no religion.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 13 Sep 2008 20:31

amitmas wrote:Do you have any idea of how many of these unfortunate 18 were from which section of the society ???
Statements like this IMHO is just what ISI and the likes want. I am in Delhi and beleive me today everyone was running once the news hit be it whatever sect of the society.

Then likewise, I'll similarly assert that if even one non-Muslim was killed in the post-Godhra riots, then we should not rush to label such riots as "anti-Muslim" because members of other communities were hurt too. We can say that riots hurt all sections of society, and therefore blame for them should not be laid at the feet of any community or organization.

Your game works both ways, so be aware of it.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 13 Sep 2008 20:36

Just spoke with my uncle and cousins who live in CP. The kids were out shopping, fortunately they are all safe. I was worried since they live two blocks from Regal.

Damn ********! I hope Obama wins and splits Pakistan into little bits. The Indian polity is proving to be increasingly impotent (if that were possible).

amitmas · Post by **amitmas** » 13 Sep 2008 20:38

Sanjay M wrote:
amitmas wrote:Do you have any idea of how many of these unfortunate 18 were from which section of the society ???
Statements like this IMHO is just what ISI and the likes want. I am in Delhi and beleive me today everyone was running once the news hit be it whatever sect of the society.
Then likewise, I'll similarly assert that if even one non-Muslim was killed in the post-Godhra riots, then we should not rush to label such riots as "anti-Muslim" because members of other communities were hurt too. We can say that riots hurt all sections of society, and therefore blame for them should not be laid at the feet of any community or organization.

Your game works both ways, so be aware of it.

I tend to agree with you here. However my only point is that the India that I have been brought up in and live in is a India where I have always had friends (good ones) from all communities. I have celebrated / wept / been with them and frankly i like it this way. Incidents like this are often used to stereotype communities which I dont support. As u rightly said terrorism has no relegion.

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 13 Sep 2008 20:39

Do you have any idea of how many of these unfortunate 18 were from which section of the society ???
Statements like this IMHO is just what ISI and the likes want. I am in Delhi and beleive me today everyone was running once the news hit be it whatever sect of the society.

Let us say all 18 are muslim, in what way that absolves the "Indian Mujahideen" and other Islamic terror outfits? I think the blame should rightly go to the Islamic trerrorist organizations which we know by previous acts to have been supported and abetted by Pakistan based terrorist groups (in which I would include ISI).

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it” - George Santayana

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 20:41

PradeepB wrote: Damn ********! I hope Obama wins and splits Pakistan into little bits. The Indian polity is proving to be increasingly impotent (if that were possible).

Let me have my rant Pradeep. I am happy your folks are safe.

We are an idiotic society who will squirm and howl at the slightest criticism or suggestion that we have not got some things right. It is at a time like this when one wishes that we were not a nation of pretenders. We pretend that things are working and we pretend that we are great and protest when someone says something we do not want to hear.

If these bomb blasts are NOT Islamic extremism, you tell me and I will shut up. Islam needs to be taught a few new things.

amitmas · Post by **amitmas** » 13 Sep 2008 20:42

BSR Murthy wrote:
Do you have any idea of how many of these unfortunate 18 were from which section of the society ???
Statements like this IMHO is just what ISI and the likes want. I am in Delhi and beleive me today everyone was running once the news hit be it whatever sect of the society.
Let us say all 18 are muslim, in what way that absolves the "Indian Mujahideen" and other Islamic terror outfits? I think the blame should rightly go to the Islamic trerrorist organizations which we know by previous acts to have been supported and abetted by Pakistan based terrorist groups (in which I would include ISI).

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it” - George Santayana

Agree my point however being Indian Muslims and Indian Mujahedeen cannot be (rather should not be) looked at the same way. If objectives of ISI is to create communal tension the least we can do is to fire it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 20:43

amitmas wrote: a India where I have always had friends (good ones) from all communities. I have celebrated / wept / been with them and frankly i like it this way. Incidents like this are often used to stereotype communities which I dont support. As u rightly said terrorism has no relegion.

Rubbish. I have Muslim friends too but it is an indian weakness (Hindu cowardice maybe) to pretend that the ideology of Islam is not at work here. Wake up.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 13 Sep 2008 20:44

I am wondering who is behind these blasts. Thinking deeper i wonder if the police is raiding the Hare Krishnas, Jains and Buddhists and their hideouts. Looking above people are blaming the Religion of Peace!!! No way, no Muslim can commit such a crime, so it has to be the Hare Krishna's, Bhutanese or Jains for sure.

Next hear statements like 'no religion condones terrorism'..

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 13 Sep 2008 20:48

Well, one cannot enjoy the multi-ethnic pluralism unless one does the hard work to maintain it -- and by this, I mean strict pursuit of Uniform Civil Code, military dominance over sectarian neighbors, etc.

Some people want to preen and show off their flower garden without doing the hard work of watering, tilling the soil, trimming and pruning, etc. Then the garden turns into a mess.
Likewise, some people want to bask in the enjoyment of the multi-ethnic society, but turn up their noses at taking care of the less pleasant chores like ensuring a Uniform Civil Code, deterring the extremist fundamentalist neighbors, etc.

You want to show off your nice shiny car, then you have to do the unpleasant maintenance work -- oiling it, lubing it, changing various parts, etc.
Indian secularists want to joyride around in the car, enjoying the ride as much as possible, but nobody wants to countenance doing the unpleasant maintenance work. Then the car breaks down, while they look on in bewilderment.

If you want to enjoy the nice multi-ethnic society, then you've got to do the unpleasant maintenance work -- the Uniform Civil Code, the deterrence of Pak, etc.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 13 Sep 2008 20:48

Revenge for US attack on innocent peaceful Mujaheddin trying to read their Mandalin Insluction Manuars in FATA.

Plus Revenge for Gujarat.

Plus Revenge for Cruise Missile Attacks.

Plus Revenge for unfair harassment of innocent terrorists in Bengalooru.
Not to forget the 1,700,000,000 rapes and genocides against innocent Freedom Fighters in Kashmir.

And the EXTREME UNFAIRNESS of giving permission to kufr to occupy the facilities on the annual Amarnath Invasions.

Yessir! This calls for a STRONG letter to the UN Human Rights Panel to use their good offices and even better terrorists to punish India for this. Let me call my friends in the Kashmir Researchers Forum and the FOIL and the Coaltion Admiring Genocide (CAG).

amitmas · Post by **amitmas** » 13 Sep 2008 20:53

shiv wrote:
amitmas wrote: a India where I have always had friends (good ones) from all communities. I have celebrated / wept / been with them and frankly i like it this way. Incidents like this are often used to stereotype communities which I dont support. As u rightly said terrorism has no relegion.
Rubbish. I have Muslim friends too but it is an indian weakness (Hindu cowardice maybe) to pretend that the ideology of Islam is not at work here. Wake up.

Shivji,
The point is that I have my neighbours from other communities who I dont see being influenced by Hardline Islamic thoughts (they were one of the first to call and ensure we are safe) what do I do start hating them? I think we all need to wake up and somewhere down the line accept the fact that Indian Muslims and India terror outfits are diffrent. Yes some people may be hardliners and they should be dealt with without any reason but stereotyping communities is certainly not the way.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 20:55

I have many Muslim friends and even true blooded Paki ones as well. That does not mean that they are absolved of all crimes they commit. Amitmas the India you were brought up in exists only in the propaganda books of NCERT whereby revered figures(non muslims) are referred to looters and plunderers while mughal rule is described as the best thing that happened to India ever.
I would still urge that we should not loose the sense of proportion and go for a war of attenuation against these forces because terrorists are clearly over playing their hand and thus hitting their buddy sekooolarists where it hurts the most.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 13 Sep 2008 20:59

Was walking up to my local market, when two deafening explosions went off within. Cops, Ambulances arrived within minutes. Everyone told to shove off.

Blasts in Karol Bagh, CP, Greater Kailash Market.

Conflicting reports. 7 explosions, 2 bombs defused. 18 dead. Scores injured.

SIMI/Indian Mujahedin claim responsibility.

Id have been in there if I hadnt delayed at home for 10 mins. B@st@rds!!!!

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 13 Sep 2008 21:00

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080913/ap_ ... dia_blasts

10 dead, 61 injured. News showing horrific images.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 13 Sep 2008 21:02

Amitmas brother

Nobody is asking you to hate, they are just asking you to wake up,there is nothing called moderate Islam, we can move on only if non muslims accept this as a fact.
Yep there can be secular muslims, but then they are not "muslims" in true sense of the word.These friends that you, me, munna and the good Hakim have are not ideal "muslims" according to the book. Please read the book before you lecture on bhaichara and your preference for this bhaichara.

salam

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 13 Sep 2008 21:05

Was walking to my market when the blasts happened within. Hadnt a clue what it was. Sounded like loud thunderclap or a cave in of some sort. Asked around and was amazed to discover this. If I hadnt lazed around at home for the extra 15 mins Id have been in the thick of it.

Police reinforcements/Ambulances arrived soon after. jarring experience.

amitmas · Post by **amitmas** » 13 Sep 2008 21:06

munna wrote:I have many Muslim friends and even true blooded Paki ones as well. That does not mean that they are absolved of all crimes they commit. Amitmas the India you were brought up in exists only in the propaganda books of NCERT whereby revered figures(non muslims) are referred to looters and plunderers while mughal rule is described as the best thing that happened to India ever.
I would still urge that we should not loose the sense of proportion and go for a war of attenuation against these forces because terrorists are clearly over playing their hand and thus hitting their buddy sekooolarists where it hurts the most.

Munnaji,
I might be new on this forum but was born brought up and am still in INDIA. So pls request you not to advice me on the India that I live in. I was certainly not there during Mughal time (and honestly have not read much either) so would not be able to comment on that.
I agree with you that no one should be absolved of the crimes they commit.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 13 Sep 2008 21:10

The govt. has to pay the price for failing to protect us. I can't understand why the opposition is not going ahead with a no-confidence motion in Loksabha.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 13 Sep 2008 21:10

Why not also blame the mobile phone whallas. They must be making crores and crors from the extra traffice generated.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 21:11

Ha Ha come on Amitmas dont pick on me because I seem not to be in India. I am too IN India.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 13 Sep 2008 21:12

Fact is that it is the ideology of Islam that influences every terrorist. It is influence of the life of Mohammed who waged wars/ Ghazwas against all who did'nt believe in him and Allah as an example that motivates the .01% muslims who actually engage in Jihad. A larger %age of Muslims support them in covert ways. Most moderate muslims and organizations will give now token statements "Terrorism knows no religion" to fool 'Secular' masses into glossing over the truth about what motivates the terrorist. The faster people come to know about this the better the chances of keeping Islam on it's backfoot and provoking a deeper study amongst Muslims themselves about the monster hiding in the midst of their doctrine. Else we don't stand a chance.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 13 Sep 2008 21:12

ASPuar wrote:Was walking to my market when the blasts happened within. Hadnt a clue what it was. Sounded like loud thunderclap or a cave in of some sort. Asked around and was amazed to discover this. If I hadnt lazed around at home for the extra 15 mins Id have been in the thick of it.

Police reinforcements/Ambulances arrived soon after. jarring experience.

Extremely Happy that you are unscathed!

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 21:14

sunilUpa wrote:The govt. has to pay the price for failing to protect us. I can't understand why the opposition is not going ahead with a no-confidence motion in Loksabha.

Sunil NDA does not has the numbers and also constitutionally it cant bring another No Confidence motion. Please be patient politics, diplomacy and geo-politics are like the Dal Makhni you have to slow roast it with patience to get the best results. Believe me when the time comes all the blood let by these cowards will be accounted for.

amitmas · Post by **amitmas** » 13 Sep 2008 21:15

munna wrote:Ha Ha come on Amitmas dont pick on me because I seem not to be in India. I am too IN India.

No offense meant sir.

Me hublee quoting what I meant. On a lighter note its an awefull experience of what I have been through today was in South ex. very near to G.K Sis lives in G.K ( fortunately had not gone to neighbouhood market) and have my office at Barakhamba. These things do shake up people, We were lucky and thank God

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 21:18

amitmas wrote:I think we all need to wake up and somewhere down the line accept the fact that Indian Muslims and India terror outfits are diffrent. Yes some people may be hardliners and they should be dealt with without any reason but stereotyping communities is certainly not the way.

Yes Yes Yes.

But on the topic of waking up, you refer to certain people as "hardliners" and "terror outfits ".

Can you categorically state on here that it is your belief that the ideology of Islam has nothing to do with the motivation and actions of these "hardliners" and "terror outfits" that you mention.

I ask because I know what I think. I just want to know what you think.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 21:20

I agree with you Amitmas that its a stressful experience as my sis and lot of other close relatives are in Delhi and thankfully all of them are safe! The point made here by a lot of posters is that Islam permits and sanctions motiveless malevolence towards people who differ from its way of living thus potentially making a whole section of peaceful and apparently moderate Muslims as sleeper cells of dangerous organizations. Nobody hates anyone and all the posters have thought about the topic before shooting their mouths off.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 13 Sep 2008 21:21

I think the blame lies with NCERT for successfully mass producing brainless dhimmis who refuse to see the obvious.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 13 Sep 2008 21:23

munna wrote:I have many Muslim friends and even true blooded Paki ones as well. That does not mean that they are absolved of all crimes they commit. Amitmas the India you were brought up in exists only in the propaganda books of NCERT whereby revered figures(non muslims) are referred to looters and plunderers while mughal rule is described as the best thing that happened to India ever.
I would still urge that we should not loose the sense of proportion and go for a war of attenuation against these forces because terrorists are clearly over playing their hand and thus hitting their buddy sekooolarists where it hurts the most.

Munna.
Go to any Muslim area during a cricket match and you will understand what this is all about. The talk of Islam being tollerant, accomodating and open minded is just pure bla bla bla. Islam is about winning dominance. Why is there a thing called organisation of Muslim states ? ever heard of orgnaisation of Christian or buddhist states?.

The Muslims of India and rest of the world, cry for Palestine, Iraq and even Afghanistan. Ever heard of them taliking about the freedom of though for non muslims, in muslim countries?. Ever heard of Muslims critisising Sudanease government for their treatment of christians? Ever heard an islamic group being self critical? Ever heard of any muslim regretting or even admitting any wrongdoing to the Kashmiri Pundits?

I am afraid you are subject to the collective

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 21:23

sunilUpa wrote:no-confidence motion

Sir are you referring to the nervous diarrhea that grips our political class when it comes to calling a spade a spade. This is not the health and fitness thread.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 13 Sep 2008 21:26

Huh,
One more thread, why!!!
With our Nuke capped and some day rolled back and eliminated, wait for the big one. These things are small, only what some 18 have died and we have a new thread, if moderators allow like these, some day, BR will have 100 of pages like these. Manmohan is not loosing sleep, why are you guys. India is more pure now. As Amitus has said, religion of peace cannot be blamed, today after this blast they have more % of people following religion of peace in India. The India has become more secular today. Also Amitus forgot to write, it was all because of Godhra, they asked for it and they got it.
Thanks for reading,
fanne

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Sep 2008 21:26

vaman wrote:I think the blame lies with NCERT for successfully mass producing brainless dhimmis who refuse to see the obvious.

NCERT came later. The blame lies with several Congress leaders and then the Commies.

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 13 Sep 2008 21:27

cancel cricket match in Land of Pure of Jan.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 21:28

Rishirishi I think your post was a case of friendly fire I know all what you are referring to and thus support those who blame the unmentionable religion for all the mayhem being caused. Please read my rest of the posts I am not defending anybody my only plea is to consider doing something doable in face of all the odds we face.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 13 Sep 2008 21:29

In India extremism has not only been a muslim concept. How about 'hindu extemism'??

1) Responsible for Gujarat Riots 1000s muslims dead
2) Member of sect Killed Gandhi
3) Destroyed Mosque Babri Masjid, again more riots god knows how many dead
4) Countless other activities too long to list, such as fighting christians, forcing conversions, shooting other convertes etc etc etc.

Lets not pretend that extremism is a 'muslim only' phenemenon. These guys are TERRORISTS who 'happened' to be muslim. Their religion is NOT IMPORTANT. They need to be hunted down and brought to justice.

BTW i am an athiest but my parents are Hindus, and i was brought up as a hindu. I have no bias against any religion.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 13 Sep 2008 21:29

Shivji,
The point is that I have my neighbours from other communities who I dont see being influenced by Hardline Islamic thoughts (they were one of the first to call and ensure we are safe) what do I do start hating them?

I have noticed this phenomenon in many Hindus, including my own relatives. This phenomenon is of the Hindus giving more importance to their own personal experiences than the collective experience of their race. So if a Hindu has a good Muslim neighbour, he will declare Islam to be good and peaceful. If he has a bad Muslim neighbour, he will declare Islam to be violent and full of hatred. This is the only reference point they use.

Same thing happens to the Hindus who go to Pakistan and come back to India and declare that Pakistan is a good country because a chai-walla refused to take money from them when he got to know they were from India. It doesn't matter one bit to them that the same Pakis will go and donate money to lakshar e Toiba to send more terrorists crawling under the fence to Kashmir and the same Pakis will rejoice that entire Kahsmir has been depopulated of Hindus.

This is a major itch Hindus have of interpreting the whole world around them not from history or what is happening in other parts of the country, but by strictly personal experiences. Usually such Hindus are quite bad at history and have never read it. They only have a vague idea about it. My mother-in-law, a school teacher is an expert at this. Everytime I mention Muslims triggering bomb blasts or killing Hindu Pandits in Kashmir, she will immediately say: "But I have a Muslim colleage in our school, and she is so modern and nice. I don't believe these things I am hearing about Muslims." That is the end of the discussion. I know that one day if that same "nice colleague" turns around and slaps her, her views about Muslims will abruptly change and she will declare Muslims to be violent, unpredictable people.