Chandrayan-1 moon mission

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 15 Nov 2008 22:04

SSSalvi wrote: ...
To understand Sun-Synchronous orbit around Moon one should get out of Earth and look down from above the Earth's orbit around Sun.
...

Great stuff, SSSalvi. That diagram was a clincher -- visually explains the concept.

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 15 Nov 2008 22:40

My questions about improving PSLV and GSLV lift capacity are more relevant to further unmanned and manned missions. That is why I put them as new posts.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 15 Nov 2008 22:44

I understand. but we try to keep thread proliferation to a minimum so that discussions in existing threads can have more meat.
both your posts can go in the space thread.
regards.

p.s. I changed your username to a human sounding one, as per forum regulations. you can ask for another if you want.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 15 Nov 2008 22:53

Salvi: What you have drawn is all fine. But what about answering my question? Your orbit has some inclination less than 90 degrees? Now what the VSSC paper I posted earlier says that orbital stability is maximum at 95 degrees;> 2 years. At the angle in your pictures the yaan will begin to de-orbit fast, look at the graphs in the paper which I posted earlier. In fact at 11 degrees it will de-orbit in 18 days unless you fire up. So as I said there is a tussle between the devil(orbital stability) and the deep blue sea, (good positions for mapping and photography)and so how do you propose to bridge the two? The VSSC people already noted that it takes 28 days to map the Moon see the linked article by Hegde at al. But as they point out there are operational restrictions, I bet you stable orbits are one constraint. Well there are many experts here so I want a serious answer how do you bridge the two constraints?

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 15 Nov 2008 22:58

juvva wrote:Hi Q launch video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaMLYBoyQNk&eurl
enjoy!

Nice find, juvva. The best video I've seen, miles ahead of the BS that DD came up with, even with the ringside view they had (I have to conclude that they treated it as one more space launch). Also, the MIP event breaks the 'six-nation syndrome' that ISRO used to get tagged with ......as in India is one of the 6 nations in the world who did [this/that] in space. With the MIP impact, it is in a 4-nation group.

Vidyarthi · Post by **Vidyarthi** » 15 Nov 2008 23:21

Abhijit N wrote:
Bhailog, how is the sentiment over in the desh? Is the aam admi on the street gaga over this, or this still playing only on "select theaters".
Sadly the aam janta hardly knows much...I was showing the images to some of mah friends yesterday and they were asking me...oh! so how many guys landed ?!!!

Is the doodhwala talking about this?

In your dreams!!!.....he is really too busy after roti, kapra & makan

Once the spirit, "yes we can;and behold we have done it" , which accomplished the Moon mission, spreads to all areas of activities in India not even sky will be the limit. Aam admi will feel the impact and every dudhwala will talk about it.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 16 Nov 2008 01:43

A long haul for ISRO

A long haul for ISRO

T.S. Subramanian

Moon Impact Probe mission: they got it right the first time itself

CHENNAI: What was remarkable about the Moon Impact Probe (MIP) separating from Chandrayaan-1, its 25-minute descent and crash-landing on the moon’s surface was that “we were able to do everything for the first time and correctly too,” said J.N. Goswami, Principal Scientist, Chandrayaan-1 mission, on Saturday.

At 8.31 p.m. IST on Friday, India emphatically registered its presence on the moon when the MIP crash-landed on the Shackleton crater in the moon’s south polar region. The panels of the MIP, which is a box-like instrument, were painted with the Indian flag. After the MIP separated from the mother-spacecraft at 8.06.54 p.m., it followed a curved path for 25 minutes before it impacted on the moon and self-destructed. The MIP had three payloads: a video camera, a radar altimeter and a mass spectrometer. The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has received enormous amount of data from these three payloads throughout the MIP’s flight.

“Whatever we did [during the MIP mission], we did for the first time and without anybody telling us how to do it,” said Dr. Goswami, who is also Director, Physical Research Laboratory (PRL), Ahmedabad. ISRO was able to release it from Chandrayaan-1, spin it up, reduce its velocity of descent and then “approximately impact it at a point where we wanted to go,” he said. The 35-kg MIP, which was “a mini satellite of Chandrayaan-1” did everything it was expected to do. Its three instruments collected the data during its descent and transmitted them to the mother-spacecraft, which sent it to the ground. “We were doing something new and for the first time. That is why we have reasons to feel happy about whatever we have done,” Dr. Goswami said.

It has been a hectic journey not only for Chandrayaan-1 but a long haul for the ISRO. It was on November 21, 1963 that a Nike Apache rocket from the United States took off from the beachhead in the fishing village of Thumba near Thiruvananthapuram and climbed to an altitude of 208 km. The two-stage rocket weighed 715 kg.

The Nike Apache released sodium vapour which, with its orange trail, lit up the twilight sky. The sight created a sensation in Kerala and the neighbouring districts in Tamil Nadu. The Kerala Legislative Assembly was adjourned for a few minutes so that the members could watch the spectacle on the western sky. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, former President, was present at Thumba on that day and was in charge of Nike Apache’s payload.The launch signalled the start of India’s rocketry programme.

The indigenous space programme began on February 22, 1969, when a “pencil” rocket weighing 10 kg. from Thumba soared a few km. into the sky.

The Chandrayaan-1 has travelled 3,84,000 km to reach its final orbit of 100 km. above the moon. The PSLV-C11 that put it into its initial orbit around the earth stood 44.4 metres tall and weighed 316 tonnes.

M. Annadurai, Project Director, Chandrayaan-1, said: “Some decades ago, man never imagined that he could set foot on the moon. Decades from now, human colonies on the moon can become a reality. India also should be in the forefront of this challenging and exciting endeavour. Chandrayaan-1 is the first calculated and well-planned initiative by ISRO in this direction.”

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 16 Nov 2008 01:52

First 3-D image of Moon on Monday

First 3-D image of Moon on Monday

Staff Reporter

Bangalore: A year from now the world will have the most detailed three-dimensional image of the Moon, complete with the precise location of its craters and mountains, thanks to Chandrayaan-1. And the first 3-D picture of the Moon’s terrain, taken by the Terrain Mapping Camera (TMC) on board Chandrayaan, will be processed by Monday, according to M. Annadurai, project director of Chandrayaan-1.

“This is the next big event for the mission,” Mr. Annadurai told The Hindu. “This stereoscopic image, with its five-metre resolution, will set Chandrayaan apart from the previous lunar missions, and will be one of its most important contributions to science.” The images that would be obtained on Monday would be those taken around the Moon’s equator, he said. The pictures from the TMC’s three cameras would be overlaid to create this 3-D image. Within a year and a half all the images collected from the TMC would be “stitched together” to create a Moon globe, Mr. Annadurai said.

The TMC, one of 11 payloads on board Chandrayaan, has already produced a much-celebrated picture of the Earth on October 29 taken from a distance of 9,000 km. It has been capturing images of the Moon since November 13 from a height of 100 km from the lunar surface.

The images would be clearer than the other previous lunar missions, said S.K. Shivakumar, director of ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC). “The highest resolution images of the Moon so far have been those taken by the Japanese space probe Kaguya earlier this year.” The TMC cameras would work for two months continuously, with a gap of six months in between, as they would be driven by the condition of illumination, said Mr. Shivakumar.

Mineralogical map

On Sunday, Chandrayaan’s next scientific experiment would be switched on: The Hyper Spectral Imager (HySI) would create a mineralogical map of the lunar surface and help in understanding the mineralogical composition of the Moon’s interior. “The two sets of images — those captured by the HySI and the TMC — will be overlaid to create an accurate picture of where the minerals are located,” said Mr. Annadurai.

By the end of the month, all the payloads would be operational. These included the Lunar Laser Ranging Instrument (LLRI) and High Energy X-ray Spectrometer (HEX), said Mr. Shivakumar.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 16 Nov 2008 02:01

Whatever we did [during the MIP mission], we did for the first time and without anybody telling us how to do it,” said Dr. Goswami, who is also Director, Physical Research Laboratory (PRL), Ahmedabad. ISRO was able to release it from Chandrayaan-1, spin it up, reduce its velocity of descent and then “approximately impact it at a point where we wanted to go,” he said. The 35-kg MIP, which was “a mini satellite of Chandrayaan-1” did everything it was expected to do. Its three instruments collected the data during its descent and transmitted them to the mother-spacecraft, which sent it to the ground. “We were doing something new and for the first time. That is why we have reasons to feel happy about whatever we have done,” Dr. Goswami said.

I remember, we met Dr. Goswami during our engineering days while on a industrial visit in PRL, ahmedabad. He was involved with number of projects back them mainly designing Ground Control Systems. Absolutely very dedicated, honest and intelligent mind. Technical from top to bottom.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 16 Nov 2008 02:21

India rejoices over moon probe landing

India celebrates space milestone

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Nov 2008 02:47

Since no one has used these words here yet.. let me put them:

Jhanda ooncha rahe hamara
Vijayee chandra tiranga pyara!

On a lighter side: I think some see this opportunity
ACall center on moon

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Nov 2008 04:01

how about selling chai + biskoot ?

-

btw, that youtube video is awe inpsiring!.. quite a shot!. best I have ever seen.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 16 Nov 2008 04:14

SaiK wrote:how about selling chai + biskoot ?

Now whenever Paki look at da Moon on Eid , thay have to look upto kaffir Indian instrument over there. Ya Allah, what will happen to H&D.

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 16 Nov 2008 05:37

What about putting a dedicated rover with Chandrayaan-2. I am guessing that ISRO wants to put a 'Sojurner-1997 like ' rover on the moon. I think they could do better.

A 200-400 kg rover with an RTG instead of solar power to explore the lunar south pole would be a coup!

They would have to put a lander with 3 times that mass in lunar orbit. Ex- one 1000 kg landing system in lunar orbit would deliver 300-350 kg of useful mass (rover + base station) on the lunar surface.

disha · Post by **disha** » 16 Nov 2008 06:14

SriKumar wrote: ...Also, the MIP event breaks the 'six-nation syndrome' that ISRO used to get tagged with ......as in India is one of the 6 nations in the world who did [this/that] in space. With the MIP impact, it is in a 4-nation group.

It is a 3-nation group. India is the third nation. ESA is not a nation and Japan's Hiten was not a scheduled study.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 16 Nov 2008 06:51

Moon impact probe device sends vital videos

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Nov 2008 07:08

The main question would be for the lander-rover, what kind chemical analyzer to be housed that can detect and get to the H3 facts. Our nation has pledged the main objective of the moon mission being to find this rich fuel to support our living in the nuclear future.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 16 Nov 2008 08:31

I congratulate India on successfully delivery of the MIP on the moon.
I am sure it will bring dividends for India in the field of commercial delivery of satellites.

…. in the meantime …. the Paki Space Program is counting drones.......

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 16 Nov 2008 08:52

Chandrayaan-1 is a statement of sorts: India has space capabilities and is a low-cost player. And now, it’s building an ecosystem for companies

http://business.outlookindia.com/inner. ... 0&catgid=9

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 16 Nov 2008 09:00

Dreamers catch the moon

New Delhi, Nov. 15: Mylswamy Annadurai had a choice — join a booming colour TV industry, or accept lower pay from a space agency still struggling with its earliest launch vehicles and satellites....

http://telegraphindia.com/1081116/jsp/f ... 118171.jsp

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Nov 2008 09:10

Sun synchronous orbit (SS-O) of a satellite for moon is not impossible. The price is the fuel penalty because continuous stationkeeping will need to be done to achieve that. For a geo-centered SS-O, we are making use of natural causes to provide us the required precession or regression of the line of nodes to compensate for earth's rotation. That would need the satellite to be at a certain altitude and a certain inclination (wrt the equatorial plane) and is defined by the formula:

∆Ω = -3πJ2(Re/p)2 cos i

where Ω is the right ascension of the ascending node (RAAN), J2 is the Earth's gravitational harmonic coefficient caused by the oblateness at the Equator, Re is the Radius of the Earth, p is the altitude of the satellite from the centre of the earth and i is the inclination of the orbital plane wrt the equatorial plane.

In the case of Earth, the gravitational fields vary slightly from that of the sphere and in a smooth manner. There are fewer harmonic terms and J2 is the prominent one as the above equation shows. So, by just adjusting the terms 'p' and 'i' in the above equation, we can have different orbits that will precess exactly 0.9856 degree per day to keep the same angle with the sun. OTOH, moon's gravitational field is irregular and is not described by only a few harmonic terms. There are lunar mass concentrations (mascons) that significantly change locally the gravitational potential. While J2 produces a secular effect on the satellite's orbit, which is used to advantage to effect sun-synchronicity, that is not the case with the moon.

That's why, while sun synchronous orbit can be achieved for the moon, it will be so at cost compared to the earth.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 16 Nov 2008 09:21

A model of the the Chandrayaan-1 sits on display at a press conference at The Satish Dhawan Space Centre in Sriharikota, October 2008. Buoyed by the success of its maiden lunar mission, India said it will send a second unmanned spacecraft to the moon by 2012.
(AFP/File/Dibyangshu Sarkar)

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 16 Nov 2008 10:38

SriKumar wrote:
juvva wrote:Hi Q launch video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaMLYBoyQNk&eurl
enjoy!
Nice find, juvva. The best video I've seen, miles ahead of the BS that DD came up with, even with the ringside view they had (I have to conclude that they treated it as one more space launch). Also, the MIP event breaks the 'six-nation syndrome' that ISRO used to get tagged with ......as in India is one of the 6 nations in the world who did [this/that] in space. With the MIP impact, it is in a 4-nation group.

Yes SriKumar. tv channels have a long way to go.
were you able to identify any staging events. I am looking in particular for
- ignition of ( air lit ) strap on's
- separation of strap on's.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 16 Nov 2008 11:18

Gerard wrote:Moon impact probe device sends vital videos

“We plan to animate every frame into a movie form to document the 25-minute descent over a distance of 100 km. This will prepare us to design our next mission for a soft-landing,”

This does not jive with an impact speed of 5000 km/hr! How do you design a soft landing around that. Unless we are missing something, it's got to be more like 300-400 km/hr.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 16 Nov 2008 11:42

harbans wrote: Considering the flop that Chang'e is plus the lousy communication and remote sensing satellites the Chinese have, this is more likely to deepen China's understanding on many issues than Mankinds. Yes and the Nigerian Communication satellite that China built and launched is missing in orbit!
Score..Chang'e 1 year: Released 1 moon picture. (Controversial, possible photoshopped copy of an earlier Apollo one); CY-1: 1 day in 100km orbit..2 pics released within 3 hours of MIP impact. Total: 3 Moon pics.
Go ISRO GO!

Why exactly is the chinese Chang'e mission considered to be a flop? Just because they did not release fotos to public ? {that is it to assume that the only job it had to carry out was to click lunar photos}..just want to understand whether it was really a flop or is it just jingoism?
i am glad ISRO is sharing its success with us all !

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 16 Nov 2008 11:50

I don't think it was a flop. They had limited objectives compared to ISRO and wanted to reach there faster. Lets see what happens in Change-2 and 3.

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 16 Nov 2008 12:13

Chandrayaan's TMC has the best resolution of any moon mapping mission to date. While previous US and Russian missions do have 1 m resolution data for a few areas of the moon, no one has ever mapped the entire moon below 10m resolution.

Chang'e 1- 120m
Selene - 10m
Clementine- 7-20 m (distance dependent)
Smart 1- 80m

The LRO (to be launched in 2009) will have 0.5 m resolution.

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 16 Nov 2008 12:24

PS

Both Chang'e 1 and SELENE have the same basic mission as Chandrayaan 1. It is just that they are heavier, do less and cost more. Chandrayaan 1 has the level of compactness and technology seen in NASA missions. We have blown past other countries in that category.

Now hopefully we will extend that with lander-rover technology.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 16 Nov 2008 12:44

The land rover will be from russia

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 16 Nov 2008 13:00

Can informed members put up a placemark here for the MIP impact site?
http://www.google.com/moon/

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 16 Nov 2008 13:09

krishnan wrote:The land rover will be from russia

No the lander will be russian. Rover will be Indian or joint venture.

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 16 Nov 2008 13:41

Arunkumar wrote:
juvva wrote:Any one know, What is the attitude control on MIP? Spin stabilized?
Thanks
Yes.....it is.

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/mip.htm

So any video from the rotating MIP could make us giddy......I for one will be more than happy to experience this virtual roller coaster ride.

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 16 Nov 2008 13:41

If the orbit of Chandrayaan-1 was reduced to 50 km, the resolution could be bumped up to 1.25 m. You could go down even further to a 25 km orbit and obtain a resolution of 0.3 m.

Since there is almost no atmosphere on the moon, even a 25 km orbit is doable. However the gravity variations (esp. mascons) would require more frequent corrections and faster consumption of the monopropellant.

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 16 Nov 2008 14:17

ss_roy wrote:If the orbit of Chandrayaan-1 was reduced to 50 km, the resolution could be bumped up to 1.25 m. You could go down even further to a 25 km orbit and obtain a resolution of 0.3 m.

Since there is almost no atmosphere on the moon, even a 25 km orbit is doable. However the gravity variations (esp. mascons) would require more frequent corrections and faster consumption of the monopropellant.

Maybe this can be tried towards the end of the mission, if the plan calls for crashing the craft anyway, after completing mission goals

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 16 Nov 2008 14:22

juvva wrote:
ss_roy wrote:If the orbit of Chandrayaan-1 was reduced to 50 km, the resolution could be bumped up to 1.25 m. You could go down even further to a 25 km orbit and obtain a resolution of 0.3 m.

Since there is almost no atmosphere on the moon, even a 25 km orbit is doable. However the gravity variations (esp. mascons) would require more frequent corrections and faster consumption of the monopropellant.
Maybe this can be tried towards the end of the mission, if the plan calls for crashing the craft anyway, after completing mission goals

Actually sounds like a terrific idea. The mission should be done by 2010. Then before CY-2 is launched the orbit can be lowered to take high resolution images of area of interest alone.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 16 Nov 2008 14:31

vavinash wrote:
juvva wrote: Maybe this can be tried towards the end of the mission, if the plan calls for crashing the craft anyway, after completing mission goals
Actually sounds like a terrific idea. The mission should be done by 2010. Then before CY-2 is launched the orbit can be lowered to take high resolution images of area of interest alone.

That makes CY-1 the second MIP beyond its 2 year orbit life.

cholaraja · Post by **cholaraja** » 16 Nov 2008 15:00

alas celebration in pakistan on the sucess of chandrayaan 1

calls on humanitarian grounds for the ISRO to be modest in future aims of its missions, can you imagine the scale of the celebrations when Indians land on the moon?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ax5ZIdFoW1U/S ... ople01.jpg

amit · Post by **amit** » 16 Nov 2008 16:02

rohan_thak wrote:alas celebration in pakistan on the sucess of chandrayaan 1

calls on humanitarian grounds for the ISRO to be modest in future aims of its missions, can you imagine the scale of the celebrations when Indians land on the moon?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ax5ZIdFoW1U/S ... ople01.jpg

Have you noticed the Tall, fair and (I'm sure) tight assed satellite vehicle on the left? It certainly beats PSLV anyday as a moon vehicle.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Nov 2008 16:23

Lunar Laser Ranging Instrument turned on

According to B R Guruprasad, PRO, ISRO, the instrument was switched ON when the spacecraft was passing over western part of the moon’s visible hemisphere. Preliminary assessment of the data from LLRI by ISRO scientists indicates that the instrument’s performance is normal. LLRI sends pulses of infrared laser light towards a strip of lunar surface and detects the reflected portion of that light. With this, the instrument can very accurately measure the height of moon’s surface features. LLRI will be continuously kept ON and takes 10 measurements per second on both day and night sides of the moon. It provides topographical details of both polar and equatorial regions of the moon. Detailed analysis of the data sent by LLRI helps in understanding the internal structure of the moon as well as the way that celestial body evolved.

After reaching lunar orbit, TMC has been taking breathtaking pictures of the lunar panorama. {Where are the pictures though ?}

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 16 Nov 2008 16:49

FYI

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_planetary_probes> Look at the list of lunar probes- especially the post-cold war ones.