China Military Watch

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 16 Nov 2008 01:04

^^^
the one I referred to as golf-cart. (btw, it has 8 wheels

)
but as vivek says, this can hardly be called armoured.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 16 Nov 2008 01:47

From the above report on the Chinese Mi-17 capability, here's an interesting tidbit:

The improved Mi-17V7 variant features a more powerful VK-2500 engine for full performance in hot and high conditions.

This is important because the VK-2500 engine, if installed on the Mi-17, dramatically improves the performance at high altitude. Comparatively speaking, the Indian Mi-17s come equipped with the TV3-117BM (Note: BM series is the version for High Altitude Modifications for the IAF, VM series being the standard engine). I have posted the comparison chart below.

This affects the rate of deployments on either side during rapid deployment operations.

-Vivek

Hari Sud · Post by **Hari Sud** » 16 Nov 2008 02:23

Very good guys about Chinese mountain warfare vehicles.

Nobody has seen it, hence do keep a watch on a picture or two when it appears.

I also suggest keep a watch on Andrei Chiang's writing on Chinese military. His papers are published on UPI Asia website.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 16 Nov 2008 11:33

The idiot seems to forget if clinton had not allowed transfer of tech to china then the long march series would be following a parabolic trajectory instead of going up into space.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_EnrVf9u8s
The lesser said about the chinese sats the better. They are not in the same league as India, EU,Russia, US or Japan. The DFH-3 had a design life of 8 years. Compare this to I-2k bus of the INSAT series with design life of 10 years.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 16 Nov 2008 13:14

I-3K bus : Insat-4a/4b successful. W2M and HYLAS on its way.
DFH-4: All Failures.
India is light years ahead of china in satellite tech. Lets not even compare Indian sats with chinese junks. China still needs to import all the critical stuff for satellites while India makes them.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 16 Nov 2008 13:30

Chinese sats are 100% junk. Let me list your customers: Nigeria/venezuela and probably pakistan. ISRO sells sats to Eutelsat and Avanti space corp (britain). The so called test bed failed 100 % of the time, not to mention despite having same life-span (supposedly) and number of transponders weighs 2tonnes more than INSAT-4a/W2M. I-2k and I-3K buses based sats are bought by Europe because they have 100 % success record. Compare any sat from remote sensing to comm sats China lags behind India in miniaturization to life-span.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Nov 2008 14:00

SAR - RISAT for launch in 2009
Navigation satellites - IRNSS a 7 satellite system & GAGAN a Space Based Augmentation System similar to Wide Area Augmentation System of US. India has also joined with Russia for improvement of GLONASS & is aiding in the development of GLONASS-K satellite

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 16 Nov 2008 14:05

LOL care to list the "two" failures of PSLV???

Yes India can make them. Just look up RISAT and future ISRO programs. Chinese junk is never bought by quality conscious customers. EU would never buy a chinese sat as it will most likley conk out in 2 years.

Loo up the specs you idiot. The spacebus-4000 based Thor weighs 3000 kg and yet has 36 transponders. Don't try to compare chinese junk with european sats. The Sats weighing 5000 kg have 50+ transponders unlike the pathetic satellites china is capable of making.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacebus#Spacebus_4000

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 16 Nov 2008 14:12

LOL India is not china to copy blatantly without understanding what goes on. Tecsar is a piddly 300 kg sat while RISAT weighs 1800 kgs. Try coming up with something better. Chinky sats suck so bad no one other than nigeria, Herr hugo chavez and the beggar nation of pakistan wants to buy it.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Nov 2008 14:16

tanhanwei wrote: Had it been launched yet? No right? That means you haven't made it yet. And a funny thing is after Tec-SAR was launched, India suddenly could launch one too. Coincidence?
By the time you launch one satellite, China will already have a constellation.

The RISAT was announced & work started even before the Tecsar launch by India was announced And the design of both the satellites are completely different

http://space.skyrocket.de/index_frame.h ... isat-1.htm

http://space.skyrocket.de/index_frame.h ... hsar-1.htm

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 16 Nov 2008 14:25

Wow

Errr...Tan mate, You talk about your coutries so called massive indigenous development in the space field and about us getting stuff from europeans, americans, and israelis however what you couldn't develop you resorted to acquire it through covert methods. We are just getting it more openly as we dont have to resort to the so called "covert" methods.

The chinese did get a head start and I will agree to it that you have used it quite nicely touche' to that. But we are and will be catching up and catching up fast in fields that we are not yet equal with you. This time around history will not repeat itself. Count on that buddy, this is going to be one long helluva race.

Just the fact that we are attracting chinese attention on a web based forum to argue and counter argue about who's better makes me happy.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 16 Nov 2008 18:33

thread cleaned up.
it was sklow !

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 16 Nov 2008 18:57

Looks like some major reliability problems...

Chinese built Nigerian satellite fails in space

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Nov 2008 19:22

wonder how many people are presently breaking rocks in mongolia
over the DFH-4 architecture failure?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 16 Nov 2008 19:51

sunny_s wrote:http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbBFwdmldA
well this is a real catch indeed..this video is revealing a lot about the very AMBITIOUS CHINESE SPACE PROG.....space gurus 2 kindly have a good look at this video..i think the chinese are following the mantra"if u cant make it just fake it"

The point in time where they show the american/russian spacewalk, you can see a bubble rise...it seems the bubble rises for the americans too....or is space made of water...
ah! the dark matter is proved to be water!

sunny_s · Post by **sunny_s** » 16 Nov 2008 21:57

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=lBL98p0wZ7g..
this video's gives a much better view of the so called chinese space walk..all the flaws are shown here properly.seems flaws like multiple light sorces in space,air bubble coming out from the helmet of the taikonaughts,the speed of the capsule with respect to earth,the wavering of the chinese flag as if its inside water...were not really removed i think the chinipandas need 2 give a good explanation for a lot many of these questions. :

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 16 Nov 2008 22:05

http://www.astroengine.com/?p=1531

So, we are presented with two options. Either, China went into space and performed a flawless 15-minute EVA, or the mother of all space hoaxes has just been carried out. So which one do you think it is? I’m betting that China did indeed get into space. The “bubbles” are in fact space debris, the reflection of “studio lights” is in fact a reflection of some equipment on the Shenzhou-7 hull, and everything else is simply hard to believe.

Whether you like it or not, China is indeed the third country in history to carry out a successful space walk…

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 16 Nov 2008 22:59

Rahul M wrote:^^^
the one I referred to as golf-cart. (btw, it has 8 wheels )
but as vivek says, this can hardly be called armoured.

The ground clearance seems to be very poor, might actually be some sort of hybrid boat/vehicle

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 16 Nov 2008 23:38

Raj Malhotra wrote:The ground clearance seems to be very poor, might actually be some sort of hybrid boat/vehicle

Good observation. It does look like its designed for fast, mobile operations in riverine areas, isn't it? Even so, aside from allowing quick transportation for the heavy machine gun crews, what level of protection does the platform offer the gunner? He is extremely exposed...

-Vivek

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 17 Nov 2008 01:17

That is their boys in the good old 8X8 ATVs that are sold to civvies in North America. Argo sells a few models for enthusiasts. Particularly useful for hilly/wilderness type ranches. Plus I heard they are popular in tundra type areas of North America.

Rahul M, they are quite nifty for hill climbs, that is if you are a middle-aged rancher with titanium hip joints. But if you are a light infantry soldier, I dont think it adds any value and is nothing more than an expensive to maintain open Jeep. Its top speed is low on flats. When climbing it is even sad and six soldiers clustered inside this vehicle is what a sensor-fused munition, rotating above their heads on its parachute wants to see. It is like laying out a 6-pack dimsum. These vehicles and the guys sitting like hens hatching eggs are purely for China's internal consumption psyops.

Once went for, er, "bear spotting"

in one of them with an acquaintance who has this big plot of land in the middle of nowhere in US. Drove around for sometime in this contraption over decent gradients. It is not bad for a climb - found it better than the 4X4 ATVs. And the low clearance is compensated by the extra rows of wheels, which prevent the frame from hitting boulders/rumps. some wheels can be on air, while the ones on ground still provides traction. But they are extremely slow. Another thing that my acquaintance pointed out was that the rollbars might not protect all necks (take a look at that picture of the chinese chaps in the back). And they do roll over, when speed and gradients go up. BTW, the bears hate them - the seats of my friend's were all scratched up and fully torn, bears love to munch on foam

Raj Malhotra, I am not sure about propulsion, but I think they do float. It might be useful for ferry purposes, but not in combat. eg: if you want to climb over a landslide to continue down to the road on the other side, this is fine. But if you want to retake Tiger hill, while mortar rounds are bursting all round, it is good old triceps, biceps and hamstrings. If this is what they are going to use for taking Tawang, we wait till they spill out of their vehicles. Those whose necks are still intact are ours' to cart back to POW camps by the much faster Bajaj Autos driven by hand-picked private bus drivers from Kerala hill ranges and Rajasthan desert routes

Added later:
This excerpt from Argo site on speeds:
On Land

Depending on load and terrain the top speed for 8x8 models varies between 18-20 mph and for the 6x6 models between 20-23 mph. In the terrain that the ARGO is designed for, high speed is not an issue.

The bolded part may not be good for a vehicle which is being projected as "an ICV/fast-attack for mountains" by the chinese photos.

Yes, they do move on water, "move" being the right term.

The web of the tires propel the ARGO at about walking speed or roughly 2 mph. You can use an outboard motor of up to 9.9 hp for extensive water travel or higher speeds.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 17 Nov 2008 01:58

Are you sure that's the armored vehicle they are talking about? That open box toy won't make it to any frontline.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 17 Nov 2008 02:15

vavinash wrote:Are you sure that's the armored vehicle they are talking about? That open box toy won't make it to any frontline.

Check the posts further up the page and on the previous one.

-Vivek

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Nov 2008 08:22

the wheeled sitara thing could have its uses in making peacetime
patrols on the aksai chin/north sikkim type flat areas more efficient.
for instance it could be used as a resupply vehicle to supply outposts
or carry along gear for foot patrols or speed reinforcements to a site
without using helicopters.

I am not seeing it as a assault vehicle.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Nov 2008 08:51

precisely, I think this was the very craft used in the vehicular incursions in sikkim.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 18 Nov 2008 00:28

China hints at aircraft carrier project
By Mure Dickie and Martin Dickson in Beijing

Published: November 16 2008 23:32 | Last updated: November 16 2008 23:32

The world should not be surprised if China builds an aircraft carrier but Beijing would use such a vessel only for offshore defence, a senior official of the Chinese Ministry of National Defence has told the Financial Times.

The comments from Major General Qian Lihua, director of the ministry’s Foreign Affairs Office, come amid heated speculation within China and abroad that the increasingly potent naval arm of the People’s Liberation Army has decided to develop and deploy its first aircraft carrier. Traditionally, a carrier would accompany and protect a battle group of smaller ships.

Chinese army turns on charm - Nov-16The Pentagon said this year that China was actively engaged in aircraft carrier research and would be able to start building one by the end of this decade, while Jane’s Defence Weekly reported last month that the PLA was training 50 students to become naval pilots capable of operating fixed-wing aircraft from such a ship.

Maj Gen Qian declined to comment directly on whether China had decided to build a carrier, but in the defence ministry’s most forthright statement yet on the issue he made clear that China had every right to do so.

“The navy of any great power . . . has the dream to have one or more aircraft carriers,” he said in the interview, which aides said was the first arranged by the defence ministry on its own premises. “The question is not whether you have an aircraft carrier, but what you do with your aircraft carrier.”

Though he did not mention the US by name, Maj Gen Qian pointedly contrasted the function of a possible Chinese vessel with the way the US Navy uses its 11 carriers. “Navies of great powers with more than 10 aircraft carrier battle groups with strategic military objectives have a different purpose from countries with only one or two carriers used for offshore defence,” he said. “Even if one day we have an aircraft carrier, unlike another country, we will not use it to pursue global deployment or global reach.”

That pledge is unlikely to reassure those in the region concerned about the PLA navy’s emergence as a blue-water force. An effective Chinese carrier could have serious implications for any conflict involving Taiwan by strengthening the mainland’s ability to counter the island’s air force and control its sea-lanes.

Beijing claims sovereignty over Taiwan and threatens military action against the island if it tries to further formalise its current de facto independence. Taiwanese separatism was the “biggest threat” China currently faced, Maj Gen Qian said.

Admiral Timothy Keating, head of US Pacific Command, said in Beijing last year that Chinese development of a carrier should not be the cause of any unnecessary tension, and that the US would even be willing to lend a helping hand.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Nov 2008 08:13

Same story, NYTimes.com: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/world ... &ref=world

November 18, 2008
General Hints China’s Navy May Add Carrier
By ANDREW JACOBS

BEIJING — A high-ranking Chinese military official has hinted that China’s fast-growing navy is seeking to acquire an aircraft carrier, a move that would surely stoke tensions with the United States military and its allies in Asia.

In an interview published in The Financial Times of London on Monday, the official, Maj. Gen. Quan Lihua, did not say whether China was building a carrier. But the general, a senior official of the Ministry of National Defense, said having one was the dream of any great military power. He suggested that the United States had nothing to fear should China acquire one for strictly defensive purposes.

“The question is not whether you have an aircraft carrier, but what you do with your aircraft carrier,” he said in the interview. “Even if one day we have an aircraft carrier, unlike another country we will not use it to pursue global deployment or global reach.”

In recent years, Pentagon officials have been following Beijing’s naval buildup. Since 2000, China has constructed at least 60 warships. Its fleet of 860 vessels includes about 60 submarines.

Tensions between China and the United States were heightened last month after the Pentagon announced the sale of $6 billion in advanced weapons to Taiwan. China warned that the move could worsen relations between the countries. The deal includes Apache attack helicopters and an array of missiles, radars and antiaircraft defense systems.

In the interview, the general insisted that China would not deploy a carrier with aggressive intent. “Navies of great powers with more than 10 aircraft carrier battle groups with strategic military objectives have a different purpose from countries with only one or two carriers used for offshore defense,” he said.

Although he did not mention any country by name, his comments were clearly aimed at the United States, which has 11 aircraft carriers, including the George Washington, which was recently deployed to Japan. Of the handful of other nations that have aircraft carriers, including Britain, France, Italy and Russia, none have more than two.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 18 Nov 2008 09:10

IAF-Chinese AF exercises likely
18 Nov 2008, 0345 hrs IST, TNN

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Citi ... 725363.cms

Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
NAGPUR: Keen to increase co-operation with its Chinese counterpart, the Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to hold joint exercises with the Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force. The chief of the air staff Air Chief Marshal Fali Major had visited China early this month and held talks with Chinese Air Force officials on various bilateral issues.

Though planned to be held over next couple of years, if the move materialises, this would be the first ever joint manoeuvre by the IAF and the PLA Air Force, Major told reporters at a press conference at the start of a commanders' conference being held at Head Quarters Maintenance Command (HQMC) in Nagpur.

The Indian army had conducted its first joint exercise with PLA in December last year, while the Navy continues to hold basic level joint exercises with China.

"My visit to China was quite successful. I met the chief of the PLA AF and also called on the Chinese defence minister, with whom I had fairly long discussions," he said. There were talks about exchanges between the IAF and the PLA AF. We also explored the plans to hold joint exercises with China, Major added. During his visit to the air show in Zuhi, China, at which the IAF's Surya Kiran aerobatics team performed, the air chief also got an opportunity to study the Chinese technology.

Major said he was highly impressed by the discipline and Chinese way of systematically managing their affairs which, he felt, could be emulated by India. About Chinese military co-operation with Pakistan, he said it did not appear to be a matter of concern for the IAF.

On recent comments of CAG on India having a weak air surveillance system, he admitted that there were gaps indeed and it would take around five years for the IAF to induct an entirely fool-proof system.

The IAF was in the process of buying new radars and other sensing equipment and the ministry of defence was facilitating speedy execution of this project. The air force was set to receive 30 radars from the Bharat Electronics Limited and procurement of much more equipment was in the pipeline. It would still take around 4-5 years for the IAF to have a foolproof air surveillance system, he stressed.

Arent we taking a step back by having joint-ops with these m00ks ? I would rather see IAF spending my hard-earned tax dollars on training hard with US/Oiropean/Israeli forces.

What are we going to learn from these ugh 'peasants' ?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Nov 2008 09:57

Nayak wrote:..............
What are we going to learn from these ugh 'peasants' ?

how they operate and the associated chinks(no pun intended) in the armour.

PLAAF would participate for the same reason and both I'm sure are confident of being able to pry open the other's secret while simultaneously protecting its own.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2008 14:12

CNN

Man pleads guilty to aiding Chinese space program

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Chinese-born U.S. physicist and businessman pleaded guilty Monday to bribing Chinese space program officials and illegally providing U.S. space launch data to the Beijing government.

Shu Quan-Sheng, 68, of Newport News, Virginia, admitted his role before a federal judge in Norfolk. Authorities said the naturalized citizen had been the subject of a FBI counterintelligence investigation from 2003 to 2007.

Under the plea deal, Shu admitted he had on three occasions offered bribes totaling nearly $200,000 on behalf of a client firm that ultimately won a $4 million contract.

Shu also pleaded guilty to illegally exporting to the People's Republic of China technical data for design of a fueling system to be used to launch satellites and space stations into orbit.

He admitted separately providing to the Chinese government a document containing controlled military technical data on space launch instruments.

Federal prosecutors in Virginia said Shu faces up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $1 million for the export control violations, and up to five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 on the bribery conviction.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Nov 2008 03:00

Nigeria's Chinese-built satellite goes dark

In late October 2006, the Chinese launched Sinosat-2 with great fanfare. After all, this was the first DFH-4 launch and it was the largest communications satellite that China had ever put in space. Sinosat-2 was planned to greatly expand Chinese domestic TV coverage in advance of the 2008 Olympics, among other things. However, immediately after launch, the satellite's solar panel and antennae deployment was a complete failure, leading to the total loss of the satellite, which had been launched a year behind schedule for various reasons.

But one cannot rule out entirely another troubling dimension of this pair of satellite failures. It raises the question that the Long March 3B rockets used to launch both satellites may provide a shaky ride that is more than the satellites can handle and contributed greatly to the unsuccessful outcome in both cases. There is no firm evidence of this connection, but again, it must be included in the overall assessment.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 19 Nov 2008 08:34

More useless exercises with these 3rd-world chaappay-maars.

India, China military drill in December

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 729789.cms

19 Nov 2008, 0041 hrs IST, TNN
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
NEW DELHI: The Elephant and the Red Dragon will shake hands for the first time on Indian soil next month in a joint counter-terrorism and combat exercise aptly named 'Hand-in-Hand'.

TOI was the first to report last month that the world's largest and third largest militaries — that is the 2.5-million People's Liberation Army and the 1.13-million Indian Army — were all set to hold their first-ever exercise around Belgaum towards mid-December.

The plans have firmed up now, with a 10-member Indian Army delegation led by a brigadier leaving for Beijing on Tuesday to tie up loose ends in the "final planning conference’’ between the two armies for the exercise.

Though 'Hand-in-Hand' exercise will only be at "a company group level", with around 100 to 150 soldiers from each side, supported by some IAF helicopters, it is being seen as yet another military confidence-building measure between the two sides.

"The idea is to build trust in each other. The level and scope of bilateral exercises will be enhanced in subsequent years. This could also lead to a collaborative security mechanism for the region," said a defence ministry official.

The Indian and Chinese armed forces have generally remained suspicious of each other since the bitter 1962 conflict, which left around 3,500 Indian soldiers dead, but have taken some steps in recent years to boost military CBMs with each other.

The two countries have moved towards institutionalizing defence and military exchanges, with an MoU on defence cooperation and exchanges being signed in May 2006 and the first annual defence dialogue kicking off in November 2007.

rajkhalsa · Post by **rajkhalsa** » 19 Nov 2008 18:10

Google has started archiving of Life magazine's entire photo archive. Apparently the vast majority of these images have not been published, and go back as far as the 1860s. The resource is a goldmine for people interested in history, and the images come under the fair use agreement.

Their archive of photos of the 1962 Sino-Indian war is by far the most comprehensive I've ever seen, and in impressively high resolution. Here are just ten photos of it from the ~150 the archive holds:

Indian Army soldiers during the conflict with China.

An Indian military policeman, on the Northeast frontier, during the Red Chinese invasion of that border area.

Indian Army soldiers.

Gun being used by troops in fighting the Red Chinese in the mountains of Assam.

Refugee from Tibet.

Citizens watching as the indian Army passes through their town.

The Indian Army training for the boarder conflict with China.

Women trainees holding rifles, during the conflict with China.

A truck convoy on it's way to the Northeast border-Red China front.

A US plane dropping supplies to Indian troops, during the border war with Red China.

I'm sure the archive of India's other wars are just as impressive. I've found it is easiest using general keywords and the decade when searching.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 19 Nov 2008 18:26

The Chinese war of 1962 shows Indian clearly the problems of an impotent government, much like what we have now. However, thanks to 1962, everybody in India has come to understand the Chinese for what they are and how good intentions and words are worthless without a few nuclear weapons to hold the Chinese to their word.

Still we can all say that today, should the Chinese decide to choose aggression, they stand more to loose than India.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 19 Nov 2008 18:30

Singha wrote:CNN

Man pleads guilty to aiding Chinese space program

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Chinese-born U.S. physicist and businessman pleaded guilty Monday to bribing Chinese space program officials and illegally providing U.S. space launch data to the Beijing government.
.

Its fascinating how the Chinese intelligence get its hands on these guys but our Indian intelligence agencies cant even get hold of their own RAW renegade who's living it up in Jersey. Not to mention, the Indian American scientist from Hawaii who was selling US government secrets to anybody who could pay online except to India.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 21 Nov 2008 02:23

China has accelerated its computer espionage

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/ap_ ... t/us_china

WASHINGTON – China has accelerated computer espionage attacks on the U.S. government, defense contractors and American businesses, a congressional advisory panel said Thursday.

The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission also said in its annual report to lawmakers that aggressive Chinese space programs are allowing Beijing to more effectively target U.S. military forces.

"China is stealing vast amounts of sensitive information from U.S. computer networks," said Larry Wortzel, chairman of the commission set up by Congress in 2000 to advise, investigate and report on U.S.-China issues.

The commission of six Democrats and six Republicans said in the unanimously approved report that China's massive military modernization and its "impressive but disturbing" space and computer warfare capabilities "suggest China is intent on expanding its sphere of control even at the expense of its Asian neighbors and the United States."

The commission recommended that lawmakers provide money for U.S. government programs that would monitor and protect computer networks.

Messages left with the Chinese Embassy in Washington were not immediately returned.

But officials in Beijing have responded to past reports of this kind by saying that China does not try to undermine other countries' interests

and seeks strong ties with the United States.

The report comes two months before President-elect Barack Obama takes office. The Democratic Obama administration probably will continue the Republican Bush administration's efforts to work with and encourage China, a veto-holding member of the U.N. Security Council that the United States needs in nuclear confrontations with Iran and North Korea.

During the campaign for president, then-candidate Obama said that "China is rising, and it's not going away," adding that Beijing is "neither our enemy nor our friend; they're competitors."

In the commission's report, military strategist Wang Huacheng is quoted as calling U.S. dependence on space assets and information technology its "soft ribs."

China's space program is "steadily increasing the vulnerability of U.S. assets," the report said. For instance, improvements in satellite imagery allow China to locate U.S. carrier battle groups more accurately, faster and from farther away.

People's Liberation Army officer and author Cai Fengzhen is quoted as saying that the "area above ground, airspace and outer space are inseparable and integrated. They are the strategic commanding height of modern informationalized warfare."

"If this becomes Chinese policy," the report said, "it could set the stage for conflict with the United States and other nations that expect the right of passage for their spacecraft."

The commission also criticized China for violating commitments to avoid trade-distorting measures, adopting new laws that may restrict foreign access to China's markets and keeping its currency undervalued.

It recommended that Congress enact legislation to respond to China's currency manipulation and create enforceable disclosure requirements on investments in the United States for foreign sovereign wealth funds and other foreign state-controlled companies.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 21 Nov 2008 04:31

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
"Chang'e" is named after a legendary Chinese moon goddess.
Is that a coincidence that Chang'e sounds like how Chinese would say Chandra?!

Goddess

uhhh...Communists...uuhhh....Atheists...uhhh....whoever named this program must have had some nerve me thinks....

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 21 Nov 2008 04:44

Dmurphy wrote:China to acquire Su-35 MKKs equipped with cruise missiles and KS-172?
Present plans of the PLA Air Force call for the acquisition of 38 Su-35MKKs whose primary armaments package will include Novator’s KS-172 long-range air combat missile as well as the Yakhont multi-role supersonic cruise missile from NPO Mashinostroineyie. Interestingly, the Yakhonts will be upgraded will an all-digital navigation-and-guidance system developed by Russia’s JSC Konstern Avionika. Therefore, it is now a distinct possibility that the Yakhont-equipped Su-35MKKs will become operational much earlier than the BrahMos-equipped Su-30MKI. The Yakhonts will also be on board the Su-33MKKs, eight of which are on the verge of being ordered by the PLA Navy.
What the eff!

Sorry to go back a bit in this thread but I feel this news warrants more attention than it has received. Please let me know if there is any other thread for more info on this...

Scariest news ever...Chicom planes equipped with KS-172?????? those AWACS killers....
I have always wondered about this...sure your KS-172 missile may have 400 KM range but shouldn't you be needing a Radar with atleast 400 KMS of range in order to be able to target and fire these missiles? If it is possible to get the target information from an AWACS through a data link and then be able to fire this missile then it makes some sense, but I am not sure about this. Experts, please comment.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Nov 2008 09:26

^^^
grrrrr.......

that report is by prasun sengupta who is a well known fiction writer better suited in c-grade bollywood flicks. not to mention that over the years he has stolen many of BR members' works without any credit.

don't ever believe a word of what he says ever, and do NOT quote him.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 21 Nov 2008 09:51

vavinash wrote:http://www.thisdayonline.com/ncomments.php?id=127885

Just look at the comments from ordinary nigerians about china

Mullah Nayakuddin Al Nigeree

Mullah Nayakuddin
11.13.2008 13:13
Nigeria should have approached India. ISRO has done a stellar job of helping out other nations launch their satellites and has had 100 % success rate.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 21 Nov 2008 09:51

Edit: Double Post