Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 04 Nov 2008 21:22

DMurphy, your post was moved to the TSP thread Strat forum because it was more relevant there and it didn't have anything to do with this thread. Also, please double check the link in your post as it didn't work.

Thanks.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Nov 2008 19:42

Packeeland has 2 UAVs called "Uqab" and "Jasoos". Could someone tell me the country/company of origin of these "Pindigenous" UAVs.

They vaguely resemble a US made series of UAVs

Thx for any help.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 05 Nov 2008 20:19

shiv wrote:Packeeland has 2 UAVs called "Uqab" and "Jasoos". Could someone tell me the country/company of origin of these "Pindigenous" UAVs.

They vaguely resemble a US made series of UAVs

Thx for any help.

IIRC they acquired some from Italy and Germany. PaulJI did post couple pictures some time back..

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 11 Nov 2008 03:18

Vice-Admiral Meenai new COMKAR

Vice-Admiral Saleem Ahmed Meenai took over the charge of Commander, Karachi, Pakistan Navy (COMKAR), on Friday.

In his capacity as Commander, Karachi, Vice-Admiral Meenai would be in charge of all naval commands and units ashore at Karachi.

Vice-Admiral Meenai was commissioned on December 1, 1972, in the Operations Branch of Pakistan Navy. He specialised in communications and did his staff course from the Royal Naval Staff College, Greenwich, United Kingdom, in 1987. He earned his Masters degree from the National Defence University, Islamabad, in 1999.

Before taking over as Commander, Karachi, he was serving as Deputy-Chief of Naval Staff (Training and Personnel).

The change of command ceremony was held at the Headquarters, Commander, Karachi, of the PN on Friday morning. On arrival, the newly-appointed COMKAR was presented a guard of honour.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 14 Nov 2008 09:22

Pakistan offers to sell Kuwait Al-Khalid tanks

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg7_29

NEW YORK: Pakistan has offered to sell its indigenously built Al-Khalid battle tanks to Kuwait to bolster the sovereign Arab emirate’s defence, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said on Wednesday.

Addressing a press briefing following meetings between President Asif Ali Zardari and world leaders on the sidelines of a United Nations meeting on interfaith dialogue, the foreign minister said President Zardari had invited Kuwait to attend the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar, IDEAS-2008, in November, at a meeting with its ruler – Sheikh Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah. Zardari said the two countries had a range political, economic and defence ties, but stressed that relations needed to be strengthened further.

Qureshi said the president had also invited the Kuwaiti ruler to visit Pakistan – and the offer was accepted.

The minister said Pakistan offered the Al-Khalid tanks to Kuwait describing them as an “attractive purchase because of their price and quality”. The tank weighs of 46 tonnes and carries three troops. Fitted with a 1,200-horsepower, water-cooled diesel engine and a maximum speed of 70 kilometres per hour, it has a 125-millimetre, smooth bore main gun, a 7.62-millimetre, co-axial machinegun and a 12.7-millimetre, remote-firing anti-aircraft gun. The power-to-weight ratio is 26 horsepower per tonne.

The president also sought Kuwaiti investment in developing Pakistan’s energy sector, particularly for the Bhasha Dam project, Qureshi said, adding that he would soon visit Kuwait to brief the Kuwaiti authorities on the project.

The minister also told the media about Zardari’s meeting with Philippines President Gloria Arroyo, where both leaders vowed to assist each other at multilateral forums. The president sought Philippines’ support in getting Pakistan the status of a dialogue partner at ASEAN, while Philippines asked for Pakistan’s support in getting an observer’s status at the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. app

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 14 Nov 2008 10:26

Weren't the porkis also claiming that Saudi were going to buy that piece of crap? I doubt kuwait, which can but Leo's or abrahams will go for a third rate tank like porkis.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 14 Nov 2008 15:59

The Saudis Trialed the T-90M and the AK and picked the T-90M over the Paki Tank.. Dont know what happened to the T-90 Contract but it has not yet been signed.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 14 Nov 2008 16:17

rkhanna wrote:The Saudis Trialed the T-90M and the AK and picked the T-90M over the Paki Tank.. Dont know what happened to the T-90 Contract but it has not yet been signed.

It'll be interesting to see the results of the trials. Saudi land has temperature fluctuations in 24 hours just like that in Rajasthan, if not worse. So does that also meanwe don't have to worry too much about T-90s failing in the deserts of Rajasthan, as their's will too?

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 14 Nov 2008 16:26

While the Saudis did trial both the AlKhalid and the T-90 and decided to choose the T-90 no specific reason was ever given or the Trial Report was ever made public. Pakistani Fora ofcourse says that the T-90 buy was politically motivated to move away from the American Camp.

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - MARCH 15, 2006
Saudi Arabia to trial Al Khalid MBT

Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent
Islamabad

The Saudi armed forces are due in April to begin trialling the MBT 2000 Al Khalid main battle tank (MBT), manufactured by Pakistan's Heavy Industries Taxila. Islamabad is hoping that this will lead to the conclusion of the country's first large MBT export deal, Pakistani defence sources told Jane's.

Pakistan plans to build a total of 600 Al-Khalid tanks for its armed forces.[3] In March 2006, Jane's Defence Weekly reported that Saudi Arabia was planning to evaluate the Al-Khalid in April 2006. Pakistani defense officials said the Saudi government may be interested in purchasing up to 150 Al-Khalid for $600 million USD.[4]. In 2008, instead of Al-Khalid, Saudi Arabia bought 150 T-90 for $500 million from Russia.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khalid_tank

That is the extent of open source info available..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Nov 2008 08:18

Zardari seeks drones' technology from the US

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Nov 2008 09:04

Has Dubya given permission for the rest of the new f-16s to be delivered to the terrorist state?

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 17 Nov 2008 10:23

shiv wrote:Has Dubya given permission for the rest of the new f-16s to be delivered to the terrorist state?

Shiv
Notification was sent to Congress, Approval depends on them. It is very possible some kind of deal is struck and US con-grease will give an approval after Jan 20th inauguration to show their good faith from obama administration.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 20 Nov 2008 08:56

PAF to acquire 36 Chinese combat aircraft, says PAF chief

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg7_26

ISLAMABAD: Thirty-six high-tech combat aircraft (FC-20) will be inducted in the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) fleet by 2010, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said on Wednesday. Answering questions after a briefing to participants of the National Media Workshop at the Air Headquarters, he said these fifth generation aircraft were of Chinese origin and would give an edge to the PAF. Tanvir said that modalities were being discussed to acquire two squadrons of these aircraft for the PAF. He said the FC-20 aircraft had been selected from among a long list of similar category aircraft of various origins, adding that Russia would manufacture engines for the aircraft.

He said the PAF had acquired night-war capability after a lot of efforts, adding that it had strengthened the country’s defence. He said only a few air forces in the world had this ability. now they can surrender in the dark also

He said that the rollout of the first batch of F-16 (C&D) aircraft for Pakistan would be held in the US in January 2008. He said a Swedish company would supply three SAAB surveillance aircraft to the PAF by September 2008 while a contract for acquiring four AWACS systems from China had been signed. He said drones were being manufactured indigenously. app

Hmm so the lavi/j-10 will end up in Fizzle-ya. Good. Better that IAF face-off chinese junk than western A/C.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 20 Nov 2008 11:20

Nayak wrote:Hmm so the lavi/j-10 will end up in Fizzle-ya. Good. Better that IAF face-off chinese junk than western A/C.

Never heard of a Yehudi boomerang until now. Joo Lavi>>Flying over china-J10>>Pakiland-FC20>>Target Yehudi.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 26 Nov 2008 08:57

Fo Schizzle yo !!!

‘System to hit drones will be ready in a year’

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2008_pg1_5

ISLAMABAD: Pakistani scientists will develop a sophisticated system to hit highflying spy planes within a year, Federal Defence Production Minister Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi said on Tuesday. He told a private TV channel that Pakistan already had a radar system to locate and destroy spy planes but it had a limited capacity. “Concerted efforts are underway to enhance the capacity to target the intruding planes,” he said. app

PAF can stop drone raids, says air chief

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2008_pg1_6

KARACHI: Pakistan Air Force is fully capable of stopping missile strikes by pilotless US drones but it is up to the government to decide whether to do that, the air force chief said on Tuesday. “First this nation, you people, our parliament, our government, has to debate . . . whether we have to engage them diplomatically and politically to resolve it or engage them militarily,” Air Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed told reporters. agencies

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 26 Nov 2008 15:23

IDEAS 2008 has started in Pakistan. http://www.ideaspakistan.gov.pk/
Is it Ok to discuss the items displayed over there in this thread ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Nov 2008 15:37

Pak beefing up its UAV inventory.

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/air/j ... _1_n.shtml

Pakistan Air Force prepares to induct UAVs into service
By Farhan Bokhari
25 November 2008

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will formally induct unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) into service for the first time in 2009, the chief of the PAF has told Jane's.

This comes five years after the PAF launched a programme to acquire UAVs for intelligence-gathering and reconnaissance operations.

In addition to the Bravo+ UAV, which, according to PAF Chief Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, has been built indigenously, the air force will also receive the Falco UAV produced by Selex Galileo of Italy. The two systems will be used mainly for aerial reconnaissance and information gathering, although the PAF will later also induct UAVs equipped with weapon systems to carry out offensive operations.

"This capability we are developing fairly rapidly; we are becoming mature. It is part of our operations now and I look forward to seeing this in real operations by [the] beginning [of] 2009," said ACM Ahmed.

Image: The Pakistan Air Force will induct UAVs into service in 2009. It will use the Falco (pictured) and the Bravo+. (Galileo Avionica)

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 01 Dec 2008 16:10

Some new Porki Weapons.

BABUR on Telar (Stolen & recovered missile inducted with the help of a friend)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3415/baburnx7.jpg

ALZARAR(Tin tanks beaten badly at LONGEWALA)
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6194/alzarrarkn2.jpg

ALKHALID(New Gen Tin tanks)
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/4843/alkhalidpb2.jpg

SHAHEEN and GHAZNAVI(Stolen missile design from a despot & improvished country)
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/743/pb261986hk0.jpg

SHAHEEN-2
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/358/shaneen2ca4.jpg

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 01 Dec 2008 16:35

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=149550

Ministry of Defence Production Secretary Shahid Siddiq Tirmizi informed journalists on Friday that as many as eight countries have shown interest in procuring newly launched JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft that was developed jointly by defence industries of Pakistan and China. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has been using eight JF-17 fighters to complete trials and technical evaluation of the newly launched jet, he said. He said that once agreements for sale were reached, 800 or even more JF-17 fighters could be produced.

If this happens, it will become the most economic fighter plane of the lot.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 01 Dec 2008 18:15

soutikghosh wrote:Some new Porki Weapons.

SHAHEEN and GHAZNAVI(Stolen missile design from a despot & improvished country)
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/743/pb261986hk0.jpg

SHAHEEN-2
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/358/shaneen2ca4.jpg

Looks like apart from missile they copied the TEL too!

Cheers....

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 01 Dec 2008 18:28

soutikghosh wrote:Some new Porki Weapons.

ALZARAR(Tin tanks beaten badly at LONGEWALA)
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6194/alzarrarkn2.jpg

ALKHALID(New Gen Tin tanks)
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/4843/alkhalidpb2.jpg

funny thing is while they are still mass producing these crappy tanks (and trying to export them), we rejected a much better quality and home grown system which literally killed local industry for MBT production.

In the long run it will hurt us, as during war time they will have better industry-base to replenish attrition in their armor.

Vinay_D · Post by **Vinay_D** » 03 Dec 2008 02:52

Brazil to sell 100 missiles to Pakistan

BRAZILIAN authorities gave approval for the sale of 100 missiles to Pakistan which can be used in air-to-surface attacks on radar tracking instalations, Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said.

The MAR-1 medium-range missiles made by the Brazilian firm Mectron are tactical anti-radiation weapons whose existence was kept under wraps for many years, according to Jane's Information Group.

Mr Jobim called them "very effective ways to monitor" areas flown by war planes, and said the deal with Pakistan, originally signed in April this year, was worth €85 million ($167.6 million).

He dismissed suggestions that the transaction might be questioned in light of last week's Islamist extremist massacre perpetrated in Mumbai, India, which some Indian officials suspected was launched from within Pakistan.

"Brazil negotiates with Pakistan, not with Pakistani terrorists," Mr Jobim said.

"To cancel this deal would be to attribute terrorist activities to the Pakistani Government."

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Dec 2008 09:02

BRAZILIAN authorities gave approval for the sale of 100 missiles to Pakistan which can be used in air-to-surface attacks on radar tracking instalations, Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said.

WTF?

Dont we have an iota of control over a fellow BRIC country's sale of weapons?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 03 Dec 2008 16:48

Already four Germans have been killed by the terrorists and the German government is arming the terrorists with Submarines.
Pakistan to buy three advanced German submarines

For the first time ever, Pakistan may opt for German submarines with a formal agreement for the purchase of three Type 214 HDW subs now awaiting signature. According to media reports, the deal may be worth more than $1 billion (773.7 million euros) to the German ship designer and shipyard Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW.

Reports suggest that the two countries may sign a formal agreement for the supply of the subs anytime over the next few months.

The German shipbuilding company Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW) will construct the diesel-electric submarines in a shipyard in Pakistan s southern port city of Karachi, where it has constructed its French supplied Agosta class submarines. HDW has been described as the largest conventional submarine maker in the world.

""The commercial contract has been finalized up to 95 per cent,"" Walter Freitag, the chief executive officer of the HDW has been quoted as saying. Freitag was interviewed by local Pakistani newspapers during a defense products exhibition called IDEAS 2008 in Karachi.

Freitag said that once the contract is signed the first submarine would be delivered to the Pakistan navy in 64 months, with the rest delivered in the following 12 months.

Pakistan has traditionally relied on French submarines for its submarine fleet and it would be the first time that it would opt for German boats.

""The Pakistan navy understands submarines and ours are the best,"" Freitag said. ""We use higher grade steel material, which allows greater diving depth. Also, we have fuel cell AIPs and can integrate Harpoons with the Type 214.""

Type 214 is a 65-meter-long boat which can dive more than 250 meters, but it lacks the advanced technology to avoid detection deployed by the Type 212.

The Indian Navy had purchased four of its Shishumar class submarines from HDW in the early 1980s.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Dec 2008 16:51

Atleast now we know where the IMF money is going, Earthequake aid in 2005 used to purchase Ereye AEW, IMF money to buy German subs and Brazillian missiles,......Huh

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Dec 2008 17:56

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/naval ... _1_n.shtml

Time for India to put diplomacy into high gear and vociferously protest with Germany against selling subs to Pak when pak is a rogue terrorist state.

Pakistan on verge of selecting HDW submarine
By Jon Grevatt
02 December 2008

Pakistan appears close to selecting Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft's (HDW's) Type 214 design for its next-generation submarine requirement in preference to the Scorpene offered by DCNS.

According to media reports in Karachi, HDW Chief Executive Officer Walter Freitag said the company had drawn up technical specifications to build the three boats in Pakistan and that a contract was almost complete.

Spokesmen for the Pakistan Navy (PN) and the Pakistan Ministry of Defence told Jane's on 27 November that they were not prepared to comment on the reports. However, an HDW spokeswoman said she would not deny Freitag's statement that "the commercial contract has been finalised up to 95 per cent".

108 of 331 words

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Dec 2008 18:06

and that too with IMF money

ticky · Post by **ticky** » 03 Dec 2008 18:26

sum wrote:WTF?

Dont we have an iota of control over a fellow BRIC country's sale of weapons?
BRAZILIAN authorities gave approval for the sale of 100 missiles to Pakistan which can be used in air-to-surface attacks on radar tracking instalations, Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said.
WTF?

Dont we have an iota of control over a fellow BRIC country's sale of weapons?

Not at all, China practically sells everything under the sun to porkiland

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 03 Dec 2008 19:29

ticky wrote:Not at all, China practically sells everything under the sun to porkiland

good that china "exports" such trash to pakistan. better that they continue getting such, by now legendary, chinese made weapons in their inventory. check what happens when you buy such trash and try to use it during wars.

Chinese made missile ‘lock on’ failure jolts SLAF
http://www.island.lk/2008/10/30/news3.html

Tuesday’s failure to shoot down a single LTTE aircraft despite timely detection by radar has jolted the SLAF into investigating its limitations amidst evidence that the enemy has acquired a capability to neutralise the threat of a heat seeking missile attack.

An authoritative source said that Chinese F7s launched from Katunayake air base had failed to zero-in-on the enemy aircraft. "Their (F7s) missile systems failed to ‘lock on with the enemy aircraft," the source said. This would necessitate an overall review of the SLAF’s strategy, the source said. The military asserted that the LTTE could try to exploit the situation.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Dec 2008 22:02

ticky wrote:
BRAZILIAN authorities gave approval for the sale of 100 missiles to Pakistan which can be used in air-to-surface attacks on radar tracking instalations, Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said.
WTF?

Dont we have an iota of control over a fellow BRIC country's sale of weapons?
Not at all, China practically sells everything under the sun to porkiland

Thats fine about China but Brazil is supposed to be our "very close and special" partner and fellow "BRIC" member.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Dec 2008 03:17

That Brazilian deal was low blow. And Germas will sell anything to anyone.

Is there a updated order of battle of TSP and a summary of what they have now not that in pipeline? Do we still have the capability on the forumk or is it lost?

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 04 Dec 2008 11:32

Some pics from IDEAS-08

Mk-82 BOMBS

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6264/bombmk82as6.jpg

INGWE AT Missiles from South Africa

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4577 ... gweck0.jpg

ARGO All Terrain Vehicle(India should acquire some of these)

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7918 ... kedzq2.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9445 ... ledja0.jpg

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 Dec 2008 22:35

ramana wrote:Germans will sell anything to anyone.

Not the Germans. That infamous credit goes to the French.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 05 Dec 2008 14:52

2 il-78 have landed in pakistan, seems like this is part of the 4 order.

ticky · Post by **ticky** » 05 Dec 2008 15:08

sum wrote:
ticky wrote: Not at all, China practically sells everything under the sun to porkiland
Thats fine about China but Brazil is supposed to be our "very close and special" partner and fellow "BRIC" member.

To be honest, I have no idea how close relationship with Brazil are but I would think twice before reposing trust, Remember, dancing naked in the street is their national pastime (Rio carnival).
Also, Russia and China are also fellow "BRIC" members. China sells to Pak & Russia to China.
Guess, we should also be selling to China & Pak not to be left behind by our fellow members.

Just kidding OK,Don't start sniping

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 07 Dec 2008 15:47

In Pakistan, the question is who is the greater enemy: India or Taliban

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
"As a mother, I am thinking to form a mothers' alliance between India and Pakistan. Let the mothers come out and stop their sons from fighting each other." This proposal was advanced last week by Dr. Fehmida Mirza, the speaker of Pakistan's National Assembly, the country's lower house of parliament. Mirza is alarmed about the odds of war breaking out between India and Pakistan. Mirza's husband, Dr. Zulfiqar Ali Mirza, is a close friend of Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and is one of the most affluent people in Pakistan. She is the first woman in Pakistan's history to serve as speaker of parliament and seems to symbolize the budding democracy, established after the resignation of President General (ret.) Pervez Musharraf.

Yet it seems that free elections and a democratically-minded leadership cannot guarantee the government full control over all of Pakistan's institutions, including the army and the intelligence service, both of which have been deeply involved in the nation's politics. A few days ago Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani announced that he was planning to send to India Lieutenant General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the director general of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), in order to coordinate the investigation of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai. Immediately following that decision, Gilani was sharply criticized by members of his own government as well as senior commanders of the Pakistani army, who felt that the prime minister had overstepped his authority or, at the very least, had not followed the accepted procedure of first consulting with the heads of the Pakistani armed forces. Moreover, the army's top brass fear that Gilani is adopting an overly soft approach to India by hastily offering it Pakistani assistance and thereby encouraging Indian leaders to blame Islamabad for the attacks.

According to reports from Pakistan, a deep rift has developed between the prime minister and the army's senior commanders over the question of responsibility for the Mumbai terrorist attacks: The army believes that India's accusations are simply an act of provocation directed against Pakistan while Gilani is of the opinion that organizations within his own country, and not Indian terrorist groups, are responsible for the incidents in Mumbai. Gilani was forced to capitulate and retract his decision to send Pasha, although he had already informed India that the ISI chief would be coming to assist in the investigation.

Gilani has tried to force Pakistan's intelligence services to take orders from the interior minister, rather than from the army. However, last July, the Pakistani Chief of Staff, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, lost no time in appointing Pasha ISI chief. On the eve of the Mumbai attacks, Gilani managed to get rid of the ISI's political wing, which had been responsible for relations with the Taliban and had even been suspected of gathering information on nuclear technology for Pakistan. However, Gilani is clearly aware that his democratic regime still lacks full control over the army.

Recently, the heads of the Taliban in Pakistan, including their supreme leader, Baitullah Mehsud, and the leaders of other militant groups, declared that they were offering the government a cease-fire if the Pakistani army would stop attacking their bases. In the wake of that declaration, the army described these leaders as "patriotic" Pakistanis. A top security official recently told a group of senior Pakistani journalists that the army did not have any serious quarrel with these organizations: "We have only some misunderstandings with Baitullah Mehsud and [militant leader Maulana] Fazlullah. These misunderstandings could be removed through dialogue."

Such statements are certainly not music to the ears of Indian and American leaders, who consider these militant groups responsible for the killing of hundreds of military personnel and civilians in Pakistan, for the creation of terrorist cells, and for the provision of asylum to Taliban members from Afghanistan, some of whom may have launched the murderous attacks in Mumbai.

Furthermore, statements of this kind only reinforce India's fears that some members of the Pakistani establishment are responsible for the attacks, particularly when Pakistan's chief of staff - not its prime minister - warned this week that, if India escalates the military situation, he would be forced to transfer 100,000 soldiers from the country's northwestern frontier to the border with India.

This is as much a political warning as a military one. Pakistan's Taliban militants and the headquarters of terrorist groups are all concentrated in the northwestern regions of the country. The Pakistani army, responding to pressure from Washington, is operating in those regions as part of Islamabad's commitment to fight terrorism. The removal of Pakistani troops from that area is a clear warning that an Indian threat to Pakistan's security is also a threat to the continued vigilance of the latter's armed forces in the war on terrorism - not because Pakistan does not want to participate in this war, but rather because it must defend itself against a possible Indian offensive.

Faced with such reasoning, there is very little Gilani can do; and that is why he is politically paralyzed. He is paralyzed because, like his Indian counterpart, Manmohan Singh, he is being subjected to massive American and British pressure not to escalate the situation. Although Washington has been shaken by the Mumbai attacks, it places top priority on the war against Taliban bases in Pakistan. That is the reason why India's politicians, currently campaigning in the national elections, must not be allowed to engage in saber-rattling rhetoric. Perhaps now is the time for Indian and Pakistani mothers to go into action.

Source: http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1044129.html

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 07 Dec 2008 16:45

krishnan wrote:2 il-78 have landed in pakistan, seems like this is part of the 4 order.

no, those IL-78 are not fitted with any refueling pods which means they are not there for induction into PAF. Induction timetable is set for Mid of 2009. But now that's one more aircraft we need to ID before shooting down (because of its similarity with our IL-78).

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 08 Dec 2008 08:57

Sid wrote:
krishnan wrote:2 il-78 have landed in pakistan, seems like this is part of the 4 order.
no, those IL-78 are not fitted with any refueling pods which means they are not there for induction into PAF. Induction timetable is set for Mid of 2009. But now that's one more aircraft we need to ID before shooting down (because of its similarity with our IL-78).

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 09 Dec 2008 13:52

Posted in Pakistani Newspaper

http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindo ... e=20081203
Mods : if the above link does not belong to this thread please put it in right thread . Thanks

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 17 Dec 2008 21:17

From another Pakistani Newspaper

$100 billion for Pakistan to abolish nuclear weapons?

NEW YORK: The United States and other Western donors should agree to a $100 billion economic package for Pakistan provided it ‘verifiably eliminates its entire nuclear stockpile and industrial base that sustains it,’ proposes a opinion piece published in the Wall Street Journal Tuesday.

The writer, Bret Stephens,had interviewed President Asif Zardari during his recent visit to the United Nations where Mr Zardari made repeated appeals for financial aid from the international community. Stephens suggests that a $100 billion should be ‘administered by an independent authority and disbursed over 10 years, on condition that Pakistan remain a democratic and secular state (no military rulers; no Sharia law).’

It would supplement that package with military aid similar to what the US provides Israel: F-35 fighters, M-1 tanks, Apache helicopters. The US would also extend its nuclear umbrella to Pakistan, just as Hillary Clinton now proposes to do for Israel.

The Wall Street Journal, a conservative business newspaper, is generally considered to echo the thinking of a powerful segment of think tanks and opinion makers in the United States.
Stephens posits that such an undertaking by the next Obama administration could work, pointing out that ‘people forget that the world has subtracted more nuclear powers over the past two decades than it has added: Kazakhstan, Belarus, Ukraine and South Africa all voluntarily relinquished their stockpiles in the 1990s. Libya did away with its program in 2003 when Moammar Gadhafi concluded that a bomb would be a net liability, and that he had more to gain by coming to terms with the West.’

‘There's no compelling reason Mr. Zardari and his military brass shouldn't reach the same conclusion, assuming excellent terms and desperate circumstances. Sure, a large segment of Pakistanis will never agree. Others, who have subsisted on a diet of leaves and grass so Pakistan could have its bomb, might take a more pragmatic view’, he says.

In Stephens view ‘Preventing the disintegration of Pakistan, perhaps in the wake of a war with India (how much restraint will New Delhi show after the next Mumbai-style atrocity?), will be the Obama administration's most urgent foreign-policy challenge. Since Mr. Obama has already committed a trillion or so in new domestic spending, what's $100 billion in the cause of saving the world?’
‘The tragedy of Pakistan is that it remains a country that can't do the basics, like make a bicycle chain. If what its leaders want is prestige, prosperity and lasting security, they could start by creating an economy that can make one — while unlearning how to make the bomb,’ he asserts.

http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Daw ... eapons-szh