Terror Attacks on Mumbai-II

[rohitvats]

Nariman House operation over. No more bodies and explosives found.

[Hariprasad]

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[SriKumar]

INXNetwork is reporting the terrorists had blackberries and monitored the media through them.

This is a new level of sophistication. But it does make sense they would want to do this since they knew this operation would have lasted over days and not hours. They would have time to check media websites,talk to journalists etc. I am glad our admins kept control here. On a related note, if indeed they monitored the media via their hand-held devices, they could have accessed TV-media info. even with the cable cut off. Makes one think hard about what was said on TV (and websites) over the past few days.

[shyamd]

Five Israeli hostages killed at Mumbai's Chabad Center

Indian commanders report the five Israeli hostages were killed by the Islamist terrorists in the course of the Indian commando raid which began early Friday, Nov. 28. Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni told a news conference Friday evening that no more information was available because the Indian troops had not finished clearing the building and they were still battling terrorists on the third floor. The names of the victims have not been released. The fate of the center's director, Gavriel Holzman and his wife Rivka is still not confirmed. Their two-year son left the building with his Indian nanny Thursday.

The raid to rescue the hostages seized Wednesday began when choppers dropped soldiers on the roof of the Chabad Center. Later a big hole was blown in an outer wall.

DEBKAfile reports the commando raid was agreed by the Indian and Israeli governments when it appeared that the chances of finding living hostages in the Chabad Center were declining as time went by.

Four Israelis staying at the Oberoi hotel were rescued with more than 100 hostages. The operation there appears to be over. In the rooms the bodies of 24 guests were recovered. The luxury Taj Palace Hotel is still under siege as Indian troops intensify their pressure on the huge building before nightfall. However, on Day 3 of the assault on Mumbai, the terrorists mounted a second attack on city's main rail station already hit Wednesday. DEBKAfile reports that the fresh attack indicates terrorists remained on the loose outside the primary three hostage locations seized Wednesday. Indian commandoes told the media that the gunmen were obviously well-trained, under 30 and showed no remorse and fired at anybody they saw.

The death toll of the Islamist terrorist assault has risen to 155 with hundreds wounded.

Indian sources identify the terrorists as Pakistani British citizens. The ship which brought them to Mumbai is thought to be an Indian vessel hijacked and sailed to Karachi, Pakistan. French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner is certain they are al Qaeda.

[Ujjal]

NYT : Pakistan’s Spy Chief to Visit India

“It seems the military and civilian government have realized that we have too much on our plate dealing with the tribal areas and terrorism in Pakistan proper to get involved in a dangerous slanging match with India over terrorism.”

[NRao]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122783260486063039.html

This from today's (Nov 28, 2008) Wall Street Journal

India's Antiterror Blunders
Years of appeasing militants has made the problem worse.

By SADANAND DHUME

New Delhi

As the story of the carnage in Mumbai unfolds, it is tempting to dismiss it as merely another sorry episode in India's flailing effort to combat terrorism. Over the past four years, Islamist groups have struck in New Delhi, Jaipur, Bangalore and Ahmedabad, among other places. The death toll from terrorism -- not counting at least 119 killed in Mumbai on Wednesday and Thursday -- stands at over 4,000, which gives India the dubious distinction of suffering more casualties since 2004 than any country except Iraq.

The attacks highlight India's particular vulnerability to terrorist violence. But they are also a warning to any country that values what Mumbai symbolizes for Indians: pluralism, enterprise and an open society. Put simply, India's failure to protect its premier city offers a textbook example for fellow democracies on how not to deal with militant Islam.

The litany of errors is long. Unlike their counterparts in the West, or in East Asia, India's perpetually squabbling leaders have failed to put national security above partisan politics. The country's antiterrorism effort is reactive and episodic rather than proactive and sustained. Its public discourse on Islam oscillates between crude, anti-Muslim bigotry and mindless sympathy for largely unjustified Muslim grievance-mongering. Its failure to either charm or cow its Islamist-friendly neighbors -- Pakistan and Bangladesh -- reveals a limited grasp of statecraft.

Finally, India's inability to modernize its 150-million strong Muslim population, the second largest after Indonesia's, has spawned a community that is ill-equipped to seize new economic opportunities and susceptible to militant Islam's faith-based appeal.

To be sure, not all of India's problems are of its own making. In Pakistan, it has a neighbor founded on the basis of religion, whose government -- along with those of Iran and Saudi Arabia -- has long been one of the world's principal exporters of militant Islamic fervor.

Bangladesh also hosts a panoply of jihadist groups. As in Pakistan, public sympathy with the militant Islamic worldview forestalls any meaningful effort against those who regularly use the country as a sanctuary to plan mayhem in India. America's unsuccessful Pakistan policy -- too many carrots and too few sticks -- has also contributed to a fundamentally unstable neighborhood.

Nonetheless, the reflexive Indian response to most every act of terrorism is to apportion blame rather than to seek a solution that will prevent, or at least minimize, its recurrence. Even Indonesia -- a still-poor Muslim-majority nation where sympathy for militants runs deeper than it does in India -- has done an infinitely better job of recognizing that the protection of citizens' lives is any government's first responsibility. A superbly trained, federal antiterrorism force called Detachment 88 has ensured that country has not suffered a terrorist attack in more than three years.

By contrast, India's leaders -- who invariably swan around with armed guards paid for by the taxpayer -- can't even agree on a legal framework to keep the country safe. On taking office in 2004, one of the first acts of the ruling Congress Party was to scrap a federal antiterrorism law that strengthened witness protection and enhanced police powers.

The Congress Party has stalled similar state-level legislation in Gujarat, which is ruled by the opposition Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party. And it was a Congress government that kowtowed to fundamentalist pressure and made India the first country to ban Mumbai-born Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses" in 1988.

The BJP hasn't exactly distinguished itself either. In 1999, the hijacking of an Indian aircraft to then Taliban-ruled Afghanistan led a BJP government to release three hardened militants, including Omar Sheikh Saeed, the former London School of Economics student who would go on to murder Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.

More recently, the BJP, driven by tribal religious solidarity and a penchant for conspiracy theories, has failed to demand the same tough treatment for alleged Hindu terrorists as it does for Muslims. Minor parties, especially those dependent on the Muslim vote, compete to earn fundamentalists' favor.

In sum, the Indian approach to terrorism has been consistently haphazard and weak-kneed. When faced with fundamentalist demands, India's democratically elected leaders have regularly preferred caving to confrontation on a point of principle. The country's institutions and culture have abetted a widespread sense of Muslim separateness from the national mainstream. The country's diplomats and soldiers have failed to stabilize the neighborhood. The ongoing drama in Mumbai underscores the price both Indians and non-Indians caught unawares must now pay.

Mr. Dhume is a Washington-based writer and the author of "My Friend the Fanatic: Travels with an Indonesian Islamist" (Text Publishing, 2008).

[Raja]

I think I already asked before. Do we have any firm reports on how many terrorists were captured alive? I seem to find only conflicting reports.

[rgsrini]

Hari_K,
What exactly did she say? I was paraphrasing and I am resonably certain that she did say that. Now that I read what I wrote, I have some doubts about the "responsibility to change it" part. But she was saying that the media has a "big responsibility to temper it down" or something similar.

Let me know if you are referring to someother part.

[NRao]

NYT : Pakistan’s Spy Chief to Visit India

“It seems the military and civilian government have realized that we have too much on our plate dealing with the tribal areas and terrorism in Pakistan proper to get involved in a dangerous slanging match with India over terrorism.”

Pakistan’s Spy Chief to Visit India

By SALMAN MASOOD
Published: November 28, 2008

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan— The chief of Pakistan’s powerful intelligence organization will make an extraordinary visit to India to assist in the investigation of the Mumbai attacks, Pakistani officials said Friday.

The decision to send Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the director general of Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, will mark the first time an ISI chief will visit rival India. It was not immediately clear, however, when Gen. Pasha would leave for India.

The move is being seen as an attempt by Pakistan’s civilian government to allay Indian concerns after accusations of Pakistani involvement in the attacks surfaced almost immediately.

In a televised speech Thursday, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India blamed forces “based outside this country” of involvement in the attacks. A day later, India’s foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee was quoted by the Press Trust of India as saying that, according to preliminary reports, “some elements in Pakistan are responsible.”

India and Pakistan, which have fought two wars, have repeatedly accused each other of fomenting unrest. While India has accused the ISI of abetting terrorism in the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir, Pakistan has accused India of supporting an insurgency in southwestern Baluchistan Province.

Distrust and acrimony between the two nuclear powers has hampered efforts toward normalizing relations. The Mumbai attacks, which killed more than 140 people, fueled apprehension that relations would between the two neighbors would plunge to a new low.

Pakistani officials said the decision to send Gen. Pasha to India was reached during a conversation between the prime ministers of both countries Friday.

“Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani called the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh Friday morning at 11 a.m. to condemn the attacks,” Zahid Bashir, Mr. Gilani’s spokesperson said by telephone.

“The Indian prime minister stressed the need of intelligence sharing and evolving a joint strategy to counter terrorism. Dr. Singh requested the prime minister to send the D.G. ISI to India to help in the investigations,” Mr. Bashir said.

“Once the modalities are worked out, the ISI chief will leave for India,” Mr. Bashir said.

Officials here said President Asif Ali Zardari also called Mr. Singh to promise cooperation “in exposing and apprehending the culprits and the master minds behind the attack”, according to a presidential spokesperson.

Mr. Zardari said both countries should avoid being manipulated by militants.

General Pasha was appointed the head of ISI in September by the army chief Gen. Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani. He previously served as the director general military operations for the Pakistani Army.

Pakistani analysts saw the move as an attempt by the government to placate Indian concerns at a time when its military is engaged in an effort to root out militancy in the semiautonomous tribal areas that straddle the border with Afghanistan.

“Sending the ISI chief to India is a clear olive branch from Pakistan and indicates just how seriously it is taking India’s anger,” said Cyril Almeida, an editor at Dawn, the country’s most prestigious English daily.

“It is an extraordinary step and indicates two things: one, the Pakistan military is confident that no direct links will be revealed by India; and, two, Pakistan is keen to avoid a repeat of the near-war situation following the attacks on the Indian Parliament in December 2001,” Mr. Almeida said.

“It seems the military and civilian government have realized that we have too much on our plate dealing with the tribal areas and terrorism in Pakistan proper to get involved in a dangerous slanging match with India over terrorism.”

[rgsrini]

Guys,
Listen to Rasheed Qureshi in TimesNow now. He starts with the "common enemy" theme from the get go.

[Prasad]

That @#$%%^ Qureshi when asked why they didn't take any action when given evidence by India spouts s**t that see Samjhauta Express case is like this that and your own evidence is kinda suspect.

This is what happens when you let WKK run amuck in the country. Porkis start using bull like this.

[NRao]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122783058605062909.html

Wall Street Journal Editorial:

Murder in Mumbai
Targeting Westerners and India's weak antiterror defenses.

We will learn more in the coming days how terrorists invaded India's financial capital Wednesday night, killing more than 100 innocents and wounding hundreds more. But there are already two lessons emerging: The war on terror is far from won, and it is migrating to democracies with weak antiterror defenses.



India is home to the world's second-largest Muslim population after Indonesia, and it has struggled with jihadist violence for two decades. But Wednesday's assault was particularly brazen. Jihadists attacked at least 10 sites across Mumbai, including two five-star hotels, a hospital and a Jewish center. As we went to press, at least 119 people had been reported killed and some 300 injured, amid conflicting reports about operations to free hostages at assorted sites. An Islamic group called the Deccan Mujahideen has claimed responsibility.

The attacks are a reminder that India is at the top of the terror target list. In this case the jihadists targeted Westerners explicitly, reportedly seeking out Americans and Britons after they stormed the hotels. But these scenes of horror have often been inflicted on Indians. Since 2005, India has suffered more than 12 attacks. This year alone, New Delhi, the tech capital of Bangalore and the tourist mecca of Jaipur were hit, among others.
Today in Opinion Journal

One reason is because India is an easy target. Its intelligence units are understaffed and lack resources. Coordination among the country's 28 state police forces is poor. The country's antiterror legal architecture is also inadequate; there is no preventive detention law, and prosecutions can take years.

A lack of political leadership is to blame. Yesterday Prime Minister Manmohan Singh promised that "every perpetrator would pay the price." Yet his Congress Party has done little more than bicker with its coalition allies over the past five years on how best to fight terrorism, as Sadanand Dhume writes here. Or it has tried to deflect responsibility by blaming Pakistan. It may pay a price for its incompetence at the national polls next year.

India isn't the only place where the lack of counterterrorist capabilities has made it easier for jihadists to escalate their attacks. Across the border in Pakistan, terrorists have exploded bombs in almost all of the country's major urban centers over the past year, in a challenge to the newly elected government. While Pakistan's leaders quickly condemned the Mumbai attacks and promised support, terrorists continue to find far too easy refuge in that country.

As in Pakistan, India's 150-million strong Muslim population is largely moderate and not easily radicalized. But that moderation can't be taken for granted. Islamic radicals have been broadly tolerated in India's free-flowing democracy. This can't continue. Wednesday's attacks should arouse Indians to better confront the terror threat, while reminding all democracies how dangerous that threat still is.

[SwamyG]

Arnab effectively cutting off Quershi on samjuta express. he clearly knew where it was going

[sampat]

Hari_K,
What exactly did she say? I was paraphrasing and I am resonably certain that she did say that. Now that I read what I wrote, I have some doubts about the "responsibility to change it" part. But she was saying that the media has a "big responsibility to temper it down" or something similar.

Let me know if you are referring to someother part.

I can second that, She did said something about liberal people taking -ve view on muslims and pakistan and we shouldn't allow this..media has a responsibility here..blha blah..

[Abheshek]

get your act in order.
another idiotic post like this and I'll personally ban you.

[Victor]

The morons who brought up Samjhauta Express being bombed with RDX are to blame for this nonsense that the pakis are throwing back at now.

[SwamyG]

Who is that hammering Querishi? Is that Maroouf?

[Abheshek]

{OK, you are over the physical age of 11 to be posting here (or a liar, or both), but what you posted there and I have now deleted, is so imbecile and disgusting a comment that you have placed yourself on the permanent sh1t list of the admins, if not other postors. There is such a thing as "human decency" which is evidently far beyond your comprehension.

BTW, your facts are as messed up as your manners, but that should be no surprise. Given this combination of credentials, you can ONLY be a Pakistani.

Happy posting at PakDef or other terrorist forums, but get the bloody pakistan out of here, please.}

[NRao]

irrelevant.

[harik]

edited

edited.

You may be sustaining a troll ..

[rgsrini]

Yes Swamy G.It is Maroouf. Very articulate, I must add.

[SwamyG]

Is Arnab the find from these events? I hope he is just not a flash on the pan, and continue to drive home his points.

Guys take heavy discussions to the response thread please. This is news exchange thread.

[Abheshek]

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{You think you have "seen all"-Ah? In fact I'd say your perspective is pretty narrow. Actually so is mine, I have zero tolerance for bigot. IOW I am an anti-bigot bigot. - The Mahdi }

[Singha]

I could hear the mulla in a ghetto behind my office raving and ranting about something in a mix of hindi and kannada at friday prayers today. clearly going apeshit over something - if I wasnt too busy with work would have sneaked out and tried to listen in on his sermon. twice in the last
week we have had a 80 yr old man and a 15 yr old kid "stare harshly" at
my taxi as they nonchalantly crossed the busy bannerghatta road as if it was their own pvt fiefdom. I dunno what they are angry about, but they
are angry...maybe they hate living as a oil droplet in hindu bangalore.

except from jerusalem post:
Israel is also training Indian military units. In September, Maj.-Gen. Avi Mizrahi, OC Ground Forces Command, paid an unscheduled visit to the disputed state of Kashmir to get a close look at the challenges India faced in its fight against Islamic insurgents. Mizrahi was in India for three days of meetings with the country's military brass and to discuss a training plan the IDF is currently drafting.

Under the proposed agreement, the IDF will send highly-trained commandos to provide instruction in counter-terror, urban warfare and anti-guerrilla tactics.

[sunilUpa]

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[SwamyG]

That guy from London is caught in the cross-fire. Poor sod.

[SwamyG]

How are the other channels (non Times Now) treating Pakistan?

[rohitvats]

Maj.Gen. Qureshi proves why he was ISPR head...the guy is slimer than a slimeball. But he is facing pincer attack from Arnab, Maroof and Maj.Gen. Mehta with Arnab being the main strike element. Maaroof also going hammer and tongs with factual arguments. Gen. Mehta in attack now........

[asprinzl]

The ISI honcho's visit to India aint gonna do didlly squat. His visit could be nothing but a PR attempt to pacify seething general Hindu anger at a helpless and despondent government. Sadly the MMS-Sonia-Rahul triumvirate need that. Ironically, the Paki ISI is coming to rescue a government floating about aimlessly with nothing to show in the last four years except the Nuke deal.
Avram.

[sunilUpa]

How are the other channels (non Times Now) treating Pakistan?

P Roy and company are telling porki FM that they trust him! and porkistan...

[Raju]

Arnab and Maroof are a good team.
they are proof of what can be achieved if one can keep focused
not lose the temper
be coherent always

the thappad delivered from a cool mind or cold hand stings more.

[SSridhar]

Why are we inviting the so-called British experts to panel discussions ? Uniformly, they are all claiming there is no evidence of Pakistani involvement. Haven't we heard from all our three hundred years' experience with the British ? Pathetic.

[Abheshek]

How are the other channels (non Times Now) treating Pakistan?

I would'nt think much of them, all are Pseudo-Secularist ********.

Btw, who wants to bet a 1000 bucks that Amar Singh will show up the Taj & Oberoi and demand a judicial enquiry to determine if those terrorists were really terrorists. Payment by cash/paypal only.

[SwamyG]

Pakistan's history being washed in public now....
Khandhar - Smack !!!
Kabul: Indian Embassy - Pow !!
ISI Chief coming to India - Why? - Smack !!!
Musharaaf - Pow !!!

[Victor]

That guy from London is caught in the cross-fire. Poor sod.

The EDITED was trying to peddle the cashmere angle. Hopefully he is trotted out of the room.

Later: aha! Arnab nails him on it!

[Nesoj]

NDTV News

Reports that Dawood that instrumental in arranging logistics for landing - Dawood Network in place - landed in Sasson Dock - met with sleeper cell in Antiquity Hotel - then proceeded in mission. Claims that it was a LET / Dawood joint operation

[Raju]

Why are we inviting the so-called British experts to panel discussions ? Uniformly, they are all claiming there is no evidence of Pakistani involvement. Haven't we heard from all our three hundred years' experience with the British ? Pathetic.

to tear them new holes.

[p_saggu]

Guys listen to what is happening now.
The Pakistanis are acting like a tag team and focussing on melting down a weak kneed Manmohan singh.
First Zardari calls up promising friendship.
Then Gilani calls up and agrees to send Pasha over - to do fcuking what gawd only knows.
Now Kiya-nahi is also in the ring.

All in all these pigs have bought time for themselves and are tying india into the negotiating bind to tide over the immediate crisis. What these assholes fear is a cold start type of knee jerk reaction from India.

They know that with the PM in india in their bag, there is nothing in hell that India can do...
Even pranab's statement gives NO HOPE. He in effect passed the ball to Mush and Vajpayee (With an obvious eye towards the upcoming elections), where mush had promised not to allow territory under pakistan's control to be used against india.
He should have sounded menacing and should have let off dire warnings, instead he sounded pleading for justice from Pakistan

Sheesh. Congress I has let India down AGAIN. Sonia Gandhi and her dynasty. What a situation we find ourselves in
PM and President are mere puppets and SG is clueless,
WHO THE HELL IS RUNNING INDIA???

[enqyoob]

On a related note, if indeed they monitored the media via their hand-held devices, they could have accessed TV-media info. even with the cable cut off. Makes one think hard about what was said on TV (and websites) over the past few days.

It's not really TV that one watches on a Blackberry - it is web forums and email.

NOW DO PEOPLE SEE WHY THE MORONS WHO TRANSCRIBE RUNNING COMMENTARIES ON OPERATIONS HERE ARE ALSO BLOODY TRAITORS?

I have a list of those morons.... One kept giving arrogant, insolent responses when others asked him REPEATEDLY to stop the practice.

Several others, INCLUDING SOME SENIOR MEMBERS, kept posting "live updates" on operational details, force strength, arrival times, capabilities, etc.

[SwamyG]

The London guy is getting defensive. Good job Arnab. Maroouf, smack him now - put him in a spot.