Indian Response to Terrorism

[Vikram_S]

sir, unfortunately the us economic troubles and the defeat of the republican party shows even a hyperpower cannot afford such a wasteful fight in an away warzone strategy let alone india.

indias problem would be solved via :

good leadership
effective law and order
and combination of overt/covert pressure (using them against LET etc)

not go and land in tajikistan hoping that pakistan will attack us there and eveything in india will be fine.

[enqyoob]

Glad u missed the sarcasm in my posting about the Republican strategy. Maybe I will escape banning by Adminullah J-Gun too.

[Nesoj]

LET'S CLEAN OUR OWN BACKYARD

While lot is being bandied about regarding logistics provided by Dawood Inc sitting in Pukistan, why is it still in existance in India ?

Apparently he, sitting in a rathole in Karachi controls Mumbai's
- Satta gambling
- Diesel Smuggling
- Land rackets
- Drug & Gold smuggling
- Prostitution etc etc
- Film Industry (few)

He is not controlling this by remote control alone. All his henchmen, apparatus, infrastructure is HERE IN MUMBAI, all know it is there, what what has happened all these years to control it - NOTHING (except to crib - that Dawood is in Pukistan)
In case we just ignore Dawood for once, and concentrate on dismanteling his entire network and capturing his henchmen here in India- he becomes irrelevent. What prevents India from this - JUST LACK OF WILL & POLITICAL PATRONAGE. The day India starts 'bottom up' rather than sitting on their a$$e$ waiting to control this 'top down', this problem can be eliminated.

Secondly Pukistan claims that Dawood is not there. Further he is an Indian citizen (traitor that he is) -- what prevents GOI offering a bounty of say $10M on Dawood (dead or alive) - Pukistan should have no problem in case someone shoots him in Karachi as he was not there in the first place. I'm sure $10M is quite big a sum to interest a few unsavoury types to turn sides.

[GuruNandan]

I am seeing a lot of celebrities and elites debating
what the causes for this disaster are and what is
to be done. They all came out with their talking
points such as 'System has failed us', 'we need a strategy',
'we need will' and so on. I would give anything to
hear somebody in this debates say that the root
cause of all this is 'Islam and its ideology'.

What do you think the odds are that somebody will
use the 'I' word?

[Vikram_S]

narayanan, i was actually agreeing with you.

meanwhile sir, request you to please spare us from the cyber warfare brilliance unleashed by poster brando!! this internet armchair warrior - could BRF buy him ticket to manesar? obviously we banana republic need his brilliance, won by operational experience.

see this other piece of brilliance by poster brando:

From the numerous discussions/ analysis with many many intelligence and security experts all over the media and the internet, many of them have pointed out how many things were not done and many shortcomings. Not only of the Indian government leadership but also of the commando operations themselves.

yes, the internet armchair warriors brigade, there is a term for the brando types who then talk this BS in turn.
its called "Walter mitty". please look the term up on same internet. like paras yell Airborne you can yell chairborne!!!

also, please join your countries armed forces and then brag about alll this rather than saying "i read it on the internet".

The Israelis criticize the commando operations for being too soon.

the israelis who recently waged a war to retrive two hostages, lost an entire unit to a sniper. and via a war and then achieved ....how many hostage returns?

unfortunately, i think the israelis actually understand indias effort much more than the armchair videogame brigade on the internet.

An FBI counter terrorist expert also criticized how the crime scene was not preseved in many areas and there were no signs of a perimeter leading to jouranlists getting hurt.

FBI with many success to its credit, like Waco and Ruby ridge.

i mean this stupidity wont stop will it.

How there werent enough fire hydrants. Later, news reports came out claiming contradictory reports on the status of the siege at the Taj. The Mumbai ATS cheif getting killed. Hijacking police vehicles.
So many things went wrong. That is a fact.

yes, that is why it is said no plan survives the first contact. which any professional or keenly interested in the SF ops would know.

meanwhile, the mumbai ATS chief & 2 other were ambushed. which is why it was again, the element of surprise working.
after it was lost, the jihadis lost.

you may not like this, but it is true.

If you dont want to hear about it, you shouldnt bother reading.

that is like saying dont smell my sh*t, even if i do in front of you.
perhaps it would be better if you instead restricted your bowel movement? and took pity on us?
or are you the american version of our muridke single focused experts trained in the art of cyber warfare by making repeated stupid posts.

[Nesoj]

What happened in Mumbai was never a 'Hostage Situation'

A hostage situation is when an innocent's life is put up as a bargaining tool in return for something else and the hostage taker is up for negotiation.

What happened in Mumbai was a 'Terrorist Incident' where the only aim was to kill as many as possible without expecting anything in return.

No one should compare this with the very many other hostage situations that happened around the world - as this was an UNIQUE situation.

The only comparison was the 9/11 where the terrorists had similar aims - look what happened - how many lives were saved ??? The efforts of our forces are to be applauded, as although 10 piglets in 6 locations, with unlimited firepower, were curtailed to a very low victim rate.

Let's stop calling it as a 'Hostage Situation' - It never was !!!!!!!

[Rahul M]

vikram, if I may say so brother brando has already got a new one.
don't get your BP up any more, he's not worth it.

(Did I mention that I have enjoyed your posts ? )

[Vikram_S]

@rahulm,

thanks but at this point of time, all we can hope for is the NSG bravery and no holds barred approach against terror spreads through rest of india and we never allow the Congress/anyone back into power for at least 2 decades. if their handling of security has become a disgrace beyond any limit

This is what Indian SF need:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuMHhw_w1qs

and either DRDO develops something similar, or India should import it.

dear sir, while future weapons shows cool stuff sometimes it is unproven in value.

the famed dragonskin armor shown above was actually proven not good enough for full spec protection and hence rejected by US SpecOps community. there was big hue and cryover this and the manufacturer tried his level best to reverse the testing result.

[Rahul M]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- ... mon_Newton

dear brando, do read this and see what REAL experts say about the NSG.


vikram, today was election day in ND. need to keep an eye on that.

[brihaspati]

Hello all!
Have we been able to agree on a "common minimum programme"? What do you think of these -
(1) Identify ideological sources of terror and protectors of terror as well - and fight the hard polemical battle with concrete textual and historical evidence - use primarily the internet now, maybe a netzine+resources and think of having regional language versions later with print versions of digests for those vast numbers not having access to the net. Should we come into transparent agreements with organizations whose agenda coincides with what we want on the basic points that they disseminate our material - have to be careful though of implication of such associations!
(2) form a platform, to start with, perhaps on the net, to urge voters to have "zero tolerance" for any regime at the centre in whose tenure "terror" occurs - however good these politicians might be we urge voters to reject them and penalize them by giving no votes at all to them at the next opportunity.
(3) Have the following four basics as targets to be achieved - (a) a direct vote elected presidential form minimizing ministers, factions and political parties (b) constitutional and legal reform to impose uniform civil code and derecognition of state protection and patronization of all religions and imposing complete supervision and control over all religious institutions (c) development of deep and covert strike operation capability outside borders (d) compulsory education in a nationalized system that represents and exposes students to uncompromising history of the subcontinent.

I am not suggesting much - and there is really not much point in trying to micro-manage all that needs to be done to bolster internal security. Give the professionals, sufficient funds, freedom from political manipulation, and hold them accountable - that will be sufficient.

[GuruNandan]

Some of the talking points of this post has been deleted

[kmc_chacko]

HOW TO REACT TO TAJ ATTACK ?

I will tell you

1. Firstly give power to IB & RAW kill anybody outside India working against Indian's (Especially in Pakistan & Afghanistan).

2. Give power to Army to go after against those, just like hot pursuit against pirates, i.e., crossing over the LOC to POK & strike there training centers.

3. Put economical blocked on Pakistan through requesting foreign counties to not make any investment in Pakistan or warning them if they continue to do business or any relation with them India will cut off from them, by putting blocked on sea port, Air/flight ban,

4. Declare & recognize Baluchistan as an Independent nation like Russians did. And send Indian peace keepers to Afghanistan (increase the force level atleast to 3-4 lakh) coordinate their work with NATO & US forces.

5. Humbly request China to not support Pakistan if they not ready then get ready for confrontation with China, declare Tibet, Taiwan & Xiang province as independent & not a part of China have defense relation with them

6. Warn Pakistan of hand over the terrorists or face the full scale attack including eliminating the name of Pakistan from the list of UN members i.e., making Indian states out of a Republic Nation.

But before all these make a strong defense and IB network.

For many my post will be very funny but fact & options and actions are very important than a ministerial discussion.

[anishns]

For $10M Miandad would turn him in

Secondly Pukistan claims that Dawood is not there. Further he is an Indian citizen (traitor that he is) -- what prevents GOI offering a bounty of say $10M on Dawood (dead or alive) - Pukistan should have no problem in case someone shoots him in Karachi as he was not there in the first place. I'm sure $10M is quite big a sum to interest a few unsavoury types to turn sides.

[anishns]

oh! please.....

Rename India as 'Hindusthan'

[Ujjal]

James P. Pinkerton, Fellow, New America Foundation :

The Bush Administration deserves its share of credit for keeping us safe here at home these past seven years, since 9-11. Although, of course, other agencies—most notably the NYPD—seem to have done more with less.

In the meantime, the Mumbai tragedy reminds us that terrorist enemies are always rethinking their tactics, probing for weakness—and striking wherever they find weakness. So vigilance is always needed; the new Obama administration would be wise to tread carefully as they consider undoing, or in any way undermining, the domestic-security apparatus it has inherited.

Instead, the incoming Obama people might further study the question as to whether or not the Bush administration’s “forward strategy of freedom” has been effective. The key issue of homeland security is securing the homeland, not transforming the rest of the world. Reduce...

For their part, the Indians have probable cause, at least, to be plenty mad at Pakistan, and they might well take military action against their neighbor. But I doubt that Indian policy makers see any upside to trying to “regime change” Pakistan with an eye toward occupying and democratizing that country. Which is to say, the Indians will not replicate recent American policy, which conflated vital homeland security measures with volitional foreign policy experiments.

Now the Obamans have a chance to refocus on American security, more than, say, Iraqi security. But that won’t be easy. Plenty more needs to be done here at home, from securing our border to upgrading port security to improving our disaster preparedness. Because we all know that more terror is coming.

http://www.politico.com/arena/perm/Jame ... 74A21.html

[Ujjal]

David Biespiel, Poet and writer, Attic Writers Workshop:

1) To prevent attacks, we need to increase international investigation systems, super-fund prevention-technology as well as increase human intelligence manpower, and develop anti-terrorist treaties for law enforcement cooperation (it's an excellent sign that the Pakistani government's ISI is reportedly traveling to India to assist in the investigation.) 2. We need to re-model our response capability. We have to re-think what we expect of responders and how we clear the way for them in an emergency so they can act on the fly. Early reports from India about a chaotic response highlight this necessity (and yet, we must acknowledge, it's damned chaotic when you're under sudden, directly-unprovoked attack). We may not be able to prevent or anticipate everything, but we can be well-rehearsed and well-practiced in emergency response. And no one thinks we're better prepared for this than before 9/11 given how little funding has gone to this sector of national defense.

Lastly, to call vigilance against festering international subversion a "war" is a waste of linguistic breath. It's not a war; it's not about territory or international spheres of influence; it's brute retaliation for the sake of blood and pride avenged (whether real or imagined); it's the Hatfields and McCoys, is what it is.

http://www.politico.com/arena/perm/Davi ... 3A869.html

[cholaraja]

If we think the swines will accet or even act to curb the violence regardsless of whatever they say then we are the fools. there are sufficient number of them hell bent on destroying India by bleeding it to death, needling the elehant...
we need to get out of the elehant mode and become ack of wolves, relentless in bringing these swinesholes to hell, isrealis manage to do this all over the world we have them bloody right next door so it should be easier.

[Yogi_G]

If the same thing had happened in the West, I can safely say that it wouldn't take 3 days and cost nearly 200 lives to kill just 11 terrorists no matter how well they were armed or trained. The level of competence of this operations shows just how good the Indian commando's really are. From the results, not nearly as good as all the people here lead others to believe.

oh, really ? and the west has handled an attack of such magnitude where ?
go through the hostage rescue records of the famed 'western' SF and know for yourself.
they are truly western, all brag and no substance.

The so called famed "NSG" couldnt even clear the Taj for more than 24 hours.

what idiotic rant is this ? where do you get such 'facts' ? the all knowing CNN I suppose.

yes the politicians are pathetic but the security forces have discharged their duties with supreme competence, much better than most western showpiece commandos could have.

SSridhar, enough details have already come in. the SFs have saved close to a 1000 people after joining the ops in spite of the terrorists running around.

Well said...unfortunately even in year 2008 "anything phoreign is good" still rears its ugly head around....

[samuel]

here it comes!

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... er/392219/

'Pak may relocate 1 lac army personnel to Indian border'

Agencies Posted: Nov 29, 2008 at 2137 hrs
Karachi Pakistan may relocate around 100,000 military personnel from its restive border area with Afghanistan if there is an escalation in tension with India, which has hinted at the involvement of Pakistani elements in the Mumbai carnage, a media report said.
Private channel Geo News reported that Pakistan's military and intelligence sources told a select group of journalists that NATO and American command had been told that Islamabad would be forced to relocate its military from the borders with Afghanistan if there is escalation in tension with India, where nearly 200 people were killed in the multiple terror attacks on the Indian financial capital.

"These sources have said NATO and the US command have been told that Pakistan would not be able to concentrate on the war on terror and against militants around the Afghanistan border as defending its borders with India was far more important," Geo News quoted senior Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir as saying.

He also said the sources had briefed the media that the decision not to send the ISI chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha to India was taken after Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee used a very aggressive tone with Pakistani officials on telephone after the Mumbai attacks.

"The decision to not send the ISI DG to India was taken because Mukherjee used strong words with Pakistani officials and warned of consequences," Mir quoted the military sources as saying.

[cholaraja]

well thats a good idea regime changing the swines, how the hell do you change the stink of the sty

mind you as time goes by it is not a bad idea to break the military machine in the country and turn it into a non militaristic society, even at a high cost. this will be a tough task but may become a necessary one for our survival. with the nukes gone it could enhance india's stretergic out look w.r.t middle kingdom (or slightly to the west of it once tibet is freed.(

[Nitesh]

It is good if they relocate, we can increase the operations in NWFP

[cholaraja]

isi head swine not comming - instead sending a lesser sty mate

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7756321.stm

[brihaspati]

All this talk about international investigations are baseless and unrealistic. These hypothesis comes out of a failure to understand the nature of Jihadi terror - its fundamental ideological basis and continuation as part of a life philosophy and the central aspect of that philosophy. In the two other branches of the revealed traditions, terror is a tactic described or dealt with in specific historical context and is almost never enjoined as a permamnet, forever to be continued into the future, central aspect of the faith. Because the originators of all these international investigations methodology belong to non-Muslim origins, they model Islamic terror in terms of terror they understand - as outgrowths of specific historical circumstances, and rooted in simple laws of economics. To understand Jihadi terror, one has to study the core tenets of the Islamic faith, in unsympathetic unedited translations or in the original (and reading them in the original is a revelation itself - for most of the Arabic versions are meant for Islamists themsleves and retain the flavour and meanings they were originally framed to convey and see no reason to whitewash - in fact it will serve no purpose if it whitewashes- you feel the full punch of the violently sadistic agenda when you know the connotations of the words - something which even the most unsympathetic translators like Guillaume or Margoliouth are forced to restrain out of extreme discomfort and sensibility) and compare with hsitorical records of Islamic activity not only from the leftist reconstruction which as professional historians anywhere simply eliminate any records for their secret or declared political agenda.

No amount of international investigations or convictions will be effective, since Islamic Jihadi terror is consistent with the core tenets of Islam, and the absolute majority of Muslims will simply take it as a temporary setback to the ultimate subjugation of all to "Allah" - and even the most moderate of Muslims will usually keep silent on the question of Jihad, and if genuinely honest will simply say - well it can be unpleasant but that is what Allah ordered through his messenger, and non-Muslims will simply have to bear it - for by bearing it and agreeing to be subjugated, ultimately they will reach salvation as Muslims and not face "Allah's anger" in the field of "Hashon" on the day of final judgement.

There is now a huge campaign to divert attention from understanding the crucial driving force behind Jihadi terror - as continued existence of Islam serves a whole range of purpose for a lot of elite all over the world - from oil and oil profit capital for the West to keeping a handle on emerging powers like India to racist and religious prejudice satisfaction that outside of the revealed traditions all races and faiths are subhuman and hence to be suppressed.

Terror, deceptive, and sadistic, with a great deal of understanding of the psychological depths of Marquis de Sade - the fundamental enjoyment of extreme distress and pain of the other - is the line repeated again and again in the core texts of Islam - and this is justified as Allah's will for non-Muslims, thereby sanctioning and giving free reign to this dark side of human nature - this is what makes Islamic terror so persistent and forever re-emergent. If Indians fall to this propaganda, they will destroy any chance of their survival - for a long as Islam continues to be practised on the subcontinent it will never know peace.

[brihaspati]

Oh Pakistan is now promising to relocate soldiers it has all along posted along the Indian border - troops that were simply never committed to fighting terror on the NW - especially since its protected pets had unleashed the Mumbai attacks, and as I had tried to say before - they have been ready with their army on the border all this time. As I have tried to point out, India can only go into Pakistan at a time of its own choice and place and not as per Pakistan's calculations. India simply has to protect its southern borders, or pretend to mount from there and even threaten a sea-invasion - while aim at a direct destructive campaign aimed at Multan and the entrance to the Kashmir valley - cutting off NE Pakistan froim the rest of the country and securing bulkheads into the borders with NE Afghanistan. This is the key location from which the entrypoints into the Multan valley can be secured or covered.

[GuruNandan]

Narayanan,

Courtesy demands that you explain what is it that you find offensive before deleting or
editing a post. I know it must be a heady feeling being a mod for the first time.
Maybe you have some intense dislike about what i post. But that is no reason not to allow
a member from posting. Admins, other mods, i have never seen such arrogant
and condescending attitude by any other mods. Even if someone posts something
that is silly, as long as it is within forum guidelines, what is the problem? If you
can't brook somebody's opinion, ignore them. Or debate them. I hope you will respect
my right to post.

{Please spend some time considering your statement above: "I know it must be a heady feeling being a mod for the first time." or get some sensible adult to explain to you what you may have missed in kindergarten, and why your judgement of what is appropriate to post, may need revision. And note that I am not editing your post above - I want everyone to be able to see it for as long as you see fit. Thanks!

P.S. Since you feel that "courtesy demands it", I will remove the restraint that I exercised and tell you: I was trying to be kind to you in not waiting until you earned a ban. Your posts that I deleted (twice) were disruptive, off-topic, and were about to derail the thread or start a flame war. I believe in pre-empting attacks, and, yes, I am "arrogant" (your word) enough to trust my judgement on when such attacks are starting. Nice try, but you failed both times and are whining about being frustrated, which is not surprising at all either. What I refused to do was to issue a warning the first time and ban the second time.}

[putnanja]

India to bolster NSG strength

India to bolster NSG strength
Bali (PTI): In the wake of terror strikes in Mumbai, Government will bolster the strength of the country's National Security Guard and enact legislation to strengthen existing anti-terror laws, a senior aide to President Pratibha Patil said on Saturday.

"A Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) meeting would be held on Tuesday, which will take up the issue of deployment of NSG in places like Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai, where there is a need for beefing up security," Christy Fernandez, Secretary to the President, told reporters accompanying Patil here.

He said the move behind wider-deployment of NSG, which is currently based in New Delhi only, was to reduce the time taken for their induction in emergent situations.

[cholaraja]

brihaspati

for a long as Islam continues to be practised on the subcontinent it will never know peace.

so what do we do for our survaival is the begging question and the answer is eloquently sim le : resist with all your might or otherwise you will cease to exist.

the trouble is "all your might is too much" for the adversary. turn into wolf acks and hunt, hunt down those killers. their reason for attacking is just to unsettle and eventually destroy us, we cannot wait and see drinking chai and nibbling biscuits.

[putnanja]

Mumbai locals helped us, terrorist tells cops

MUMBAI Did some Mumbai locals provide support to the Pakistani terrorists? Azam Amir Kasab, the only Pakistani terrorist nabbed alive, has revealed names and addresses of at least five people from the city who helped the terror operation.
Sources said that help like, providing shelter, taking them around and showing places, passing information on police stations and nakabandhis were given by these locals. Joint commissioner of police (crime) Rakesh Maria said,"We suspect there could be local assistants but it is subject to verification. It will be very premature to comment on this at this stage as our investigations is going on.''
Kasab has told police that they were sent with a specific mission of targeting Israelis to avenge atrocities on Palestinians. This was why they targetted Nariman House, a complex meant for Israelis. Sources said Kasab's colleagues killed in the operation had stayed in Nariman House earlier.
"They have stayed in Nariman house on rental basis identifying themselves as Malaysian students.'' said a source. Police are trying to find out how Nariman House rooms were given to non-Jews. Police has taken all the records books of for verification. The second target was the CST railway station because casualties would be high.
Crime branch has also recovered several fake identity and credit cards from the belongings of dead terrorists. "All the cards are in different names and of different banks. Now we are at least trying to figure out how they procured credit cards from various banks.'' said Maria. The recovery of so many cards with different names have led Mumbai police to suspect the involvement of ISI.
Though Maria maintained only 10 terrorists had sneaked in, the two blasts in taxis in Wadi Bunder and Vile Parle have led the police to believe there could be possibility of the presence of another two or more terrorists in the city.

[putnanja]

The Gateway Of India

EXCLUSIVE
The Gateway Of India
By mid-September, Indian agencies knew that the attack would come from the sea, by mid-November, they knew that the Taj hotel would be targeted... And yet... and yet... A blow by blow account of how the plan to attack Mumbai by sea was hatched and executed


Saikat Datta


| e-mail | one page format | feedback: send - read |


In mid-September this year, the CIA station chief in Delhi sought an urgent meeting with his counterpart in R&AW to pass on some critical inputs. This was part of an understanding that Indian and American intelligence had institutionalised in the aftermath of 9/11. From its assets in Pakistan and Afghanistan, American intelligence had come to learn that the Lashkar-e-Toiba was planning to launch a major terrorist attack in Mumbai, which would be carried out from the sea.

This input was in conjunction with other inputs that Indian intelligence had received from various other sources. For instance, Riyasuddin, the son of Maulana Nasiruddin, who was under arrest for his alleged involvement in the assassination of the then Gujarat home minister Naren Pandya, had stated in his statements to the police that a sea-borne attack was being planned by certain terrorist groups abroad for an attack on Mumbai.

Similarly other vague inputs had also come in from Uttar Pradesh as well as other sources. But by September 24, Indian intelligence picked up several specific inputs. These were:
An LeT module was being trained in a camp around Karachi for launching attacks from the sea for at least three months

Yusuf Muzammil, the chief of operations of the LeT was in contact with an LeT operative stationed in Bangladesh (identified as "Yayah") who was being asked to procure international SIM cards for an operation that had been planned

Information was also available that the team had been trained by Zakir-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, also known as "Chacha" an ageing ideologue who conducted most of the LeT's training modules.
By the middle of November, as Indian intelligence continued to check out further inputs, the pieces of an intricate jigsaw puzzle began to fall into place. Sources say they learnt that the attack would come from the sea and that the Taj Hotel would be a major target. However, it was not known whether this attack would be carried out by planting bombs in the hotel or by terrorists carrying small arms. Indian intelligence assessments were tilting towards bombs being planted and security at the hotel was beefed up accordingly to prevent terrorists from planting bombs inside the premises.

On November 18, R&AW passed on a specific advisory to the Coast Guard, which serves as the Lead intelligence Agency for the coastal area. The advisory asked the coast guard to intensify patrolling and look out for a suspicious vessel, probably of Pakistani origin, which had sailed off from Karachi. While the coast guard began to patrol the area with renewed intensity, the terrorists had an entirely different plan.

According to details available with Indian intelligence and the information given by the terrorist who was picked up by the Mumbai police in an encounter near Chowpatty, the terrorists hijacked an Indian fishing boat, the Kuber, somewhere near Pakistani waters. They beheaded the majority of the boat's crew of six and only allowed one crew-member, Amarsinh Solanki, to live so that he could help them with navigating the boat to Mumbai. The coast guard found a Global Positioning System abandoned on the fishing trawler that was drifting nearly four nautical miles off the coast of Mumbai early on Thursday, November 27 morning, several hours after the terrorist attack began.

While the coast guard was looking for a Pakistani or unidentified vessel, the Kuber (registration number 2303) blended in with the thousands of registered Indian fishing vessels out at sea.

This enabled the terrorists to avoid detection and slip into Badhwar park in Cuffe Parade in Mumbai before they began their operations. Most of them got into waiting boats that had been arranged by Karachi-based underworld don Dawood Ibrahim's diesel smuggling network in Mumbai. Arms, ammunition and plastic explosives were quickly transferred to the waiting boats that took the terrorists to the Gateway of India which was the pre-arranged launching pad for the terrorist attack.

What has surprised investigators piecing together the details of the attack is that the GPS recovered from the abandoned trawler, Kuber, had two maps fed into it to aid navigation. One was a route from Karachi that was plotted quite close to the Indian coast, while a return route had also been mapped into the GPS from the Mumbai coast back to Karachi. "We think this was done to give the terrorists some semblance of hope that they would go back home after a successful raid," a top security official told Outlook. The fact that these two maps were fed into the GPS has confirmed that there was some help from people with a naval or army background, and had extensive knowledge of navigation at sea.

Arrested terrorist Azmal Amir Qasab

What security officials have also confirmed is the fact that most of the terrorists were from Punjab in Pakistan. The arrested terrorist, Azmal Amir Qasab, a resident of Chippalpura Taluka in Ukkad Zilla, Punjab, Pakistan has told his interrogators that the terrorists had trained for over two months, much of it on the Karachi coast for the naval leg. They were trained in basic rudiments of conducting naval commando raids, given extensive biefings on the layout of South Mumbai with adequate footage for familiarity and CDs of alleged "atrocities" carried out against Muslims in India. Qasab has also given details of how two of their operatives checked into the Taj Hotel last Saturday, November 22, with a lot of equipment. The duo received several visitors with huge bags, apparently carrying RDX for the two IEDs which were defused by the Mumbai police on the night of the first attack.

Meanwhile, investigators are poring through the call data details downloaded from the satellite phone also recovered from the abandoned trawler. Many of the call details have revealed numbers that have been traced back to the LeT's chief of operations, Muzamil, as well as to Lakhvi. Interestingly, the international SIM cards recovered from the bodies of the killed terrorists correspond to the intelligence picked up earlier, when Muzamil had asked his Bangladesh operative Yayah, to procure them. He apparently also procured the fake Mauritian identity card recovered by the marine commandos.


Top security sources have also told Outlook that the intercepts made by the intelligence agencies while the NSG commando assault was underway clearly indicates that the terrorists were speaking to their handlers in Pakistan. Among the instructions passed on to them during the nearly 62-hour crisis were to throw grenades indiscriminately if they were in danger of being overpowered and to start fake negotiations to prolong the crisis.In fact, two such attempts at negotiations were made at Nariman Bhawan and the Oberoi-Trident hotel to stave off an impending assault, even though the terrorists had already killed the hostages.

In the days to come investigators will have to continue putting the pieces of the puzzle together to create a more comprehensive picture of the attack. Hidden among them will be key lessons on how to prevent similar attacks in the future.

[putnanja]

NSG learns from Mumbai experience

NSG learns from Mumbai experience
-
New Delhi: The NSG, which played a pivotal role in the anti-terror operations in Mumbai, has decided to include the siege experience in its new training schedule for its elite Black Cat commandos.

The NSG is purely a deputation force with personnel and officials drawn from the Army and various para-military forces like the CRPF, ITBP, CISF, BSF and SSB.

"The Mumbai siege has been a learning experience for us. We will include this feature in our future commando trainings," a senior NSG official said. All the men on deputation will have to undergo the new training module.

"It was for the first time that we operated in crowded and densely populated areas. Nariman House in south Mumbai was closeted in a mesh of bylanes and achieving operational success without the loss of innocent lives was a challenge," the official said.

The Taj and Oberoi (Trident) were large hotels with spacious rooms, kitchens, ball rooms, restaurants and ante-rooms which can provide ample hiding space to terrorists and help them create hurdles for the crack commandos, the official said. The commandos, who have an upper age limit of 38 years undergo a rigorous pre-induction course while coming on deputation from other forces and is only cleared by only 50-55 per cent candidates.

The NSG commandos were flown on November 27 first, to end the siege at the two luxury hotels -- Taj and Oberoi (Trident) and the Jewish residential complex Nariman House. Subsequent reinforcements were later sent to enhance the forces capabilities.

[putnanja]

Dawood provided logistics to militants

Dawood provided logistics to militants
-
Mumbai: Underworld don Dawood Ibrahim's henchman, suspected to be a Colaba-based businessman, handed over arms and explosives to Lashkar-e-Toiba militants for carrying out attacks in Mumbai, in what is emerging as the first major joint operation by the Karachi-based gangster and the banned outfit, official sources said here.

Ajmal Amin, the only militant arrested during the operation, told interrogators that the dozen ultras who sailed from Karachi had come to Sasool dock from where they were taken first to Cuff Parade and later to Gateway of India in boats arranged by a front man of Dawood, who runs several custom clearing houses in Mumbai, the sources claimed.

Mumbai police and central security agencies have launched a massive manhunt for the businessman considered as a henchman of Dawood, who has been listed as Global Terrorist having links to Al-Qaeda by teh United States.

The suspect looks after some customs clearing mechanism and also indulges in diesel smuggling for the underworld don, the sources claimed.

After getting into waiting boats arranged by Dawood's gang in Mumbai, arms, ammunition and plastic explosives were quickly transferred to the waiting boats that took the terrorists to the Gateway of India which was had been marked as launching pad for the terror strike, the first of its kind in the country terrorism history.

The Intelligence agencies had sent a warning note to Coast Guard to keep a watch for an unidentified Pakistani trawler sailing from Karachi port which may enter into Indian waters. While the coast guard was looking for a Pakistani or unidentified vessel, the terrorists hijacked Indian fishing trawler "MV Kuber" killing its crew and entered the Mumbai seas.

[putnanja]

This appeared in yesterday's telegraph edition. The "we need to wail together" brigade have started their work already...

Hate text: They’re your friends

Hate text: They’re your friends
NANDITA DAS

It hadn’t hit me hard enough till Thursday morning. At a friend’s place the previous night, I did see some images of injured people being taken on stretchers, police looking around clueless, panic among people….

I have to say, it hadn’t hit me then. My response was, not again...

But in the morning things felt different. I got a message from an unknown number: “See what your friends have done.” Just because Firaaq, my film, deals with how Muslims ‘also’ get affected by violence, the terrorists are supposed to be my friends! I got many messages from my Muslim friends who feel the need to condemn it more than anyone else, who feel the need to prove their national allegiance in every possible way. They are begging not to be clubbed with the terrorists.

Then of course there were messages from well-wishers who asked about me and my loved ones. I too did the same. Strangely, that was when tears started rolling down my cheeks. Guess the thought that if our loved ones are fine, it’s all okay, seemed like a bizarre way to feel. When will our souls ache when anyone is hurt, even those that we have never seen and will never see? The more I wrote back in SMS and email that I was ‘okay’, the more miserable I was feeling.

Catharsis is an amazing thing. It brings out things from all hidden corners. I always saw myself as strong. And here I was bawling for reasons I didn’t understand. I felt like everything was futile. So much anger, hatred, aggression... what has the world come to?

While talking about Firaaq, I have often said the one thing we can change in the world is our response to things that happen around us — violence, prejudice, hatred. The line rang in my ears and I felt ashamed of all the times I had been angry. Isn’t there a seed of aggression in many of us? Doesn’t it shock us sometimes what we are capable of doing or saying?

We are horrified at a cold-blooded young man killing people with a gun, at a man raping a small girl child, at a woman being burnt alive for dowry, but are they all aberrations and evil people, or could they be someone we might have seen or worked with or passed by? Individual anger gives rise to collective anger and to the politics of hate.

I never want to water this seed of anger in me anymore. It may take a long time for the ripple effect to happen where each of our positive energies changes the world. But the resolution itself is drying my tears and giving me a reason to carry on.

But the question remains, what now? Should I carry on with business as usual, not out of apathy, but to defeat the desired impact of the terrorists? Their agenda is to get us into a panic. What if I refuse to give them what they want? But what if I am unable to go on with business as usual? What if it is anguishing me in a way that I cannot ignore and want to engage with it?

Struggling with this dilemma, I boarded the flight to come back home to Delhi and saw some of those horrifying images in the papers. I could feel my stomach churn, but what churned it further were the other pages of ‘business as usual’. One had a page about fringe hairstyle coming back into fashion. Another had some speculation about Monica Bedi wanting to marry Rahul Mahajan. My head spun as I tried to grapple with my emotions. Every day the paper is filled with all this and when the memory of this horrifying day will fade away, it will not seem grotesque any more to have all of that again. So then why leave it out just today?

But isn’t there a way that we can mourn and register our protest against such violence in a less matter-of-fact way? Isn’t there a way that we somehow put all our resources to get our police better equipped with their bullet-proof jackets and ammunition? Isn’t there a way of feeling national pride by protecting innocent people from being killed with better security measures? Isn’t there a way that aggression doesn’t ever take such strong roots to cause such violence?

When I see these 20-22-year-old boys, I am also filled with deep sadness and a disconcerting curiosity about what could have brought them to where they are. Is it that we all want a purpose in life and so when a young boy caught at that crossroads is given a mission that suddenly increases his self worth, he grabs it? No one is born evil. What is it that happens in the growing-up years that gives him the will to take lives and end his own? Is there a way these misguided boys can be saved? If we have to save ourselves, we have to save everyone else.

I got a strange message from a TV journalist that said: “Forgiving a terrorist should be left to God. But fixing their appointment with God, is entirely our responsibility — Indian Army.” Change the word “terrorist” to “Americans/Hindus/Muslims” and sign it off “A Terrorist” and the meaning is not too different. Such anger, such hatred in a “common man” to me is no less scary. There has to be a way out of this vicious cycle, beyond an eye for eye.

I have no idea what I am feeling anymore. Muddled and contradictory thoughts are finding their little corners in my mind. All I know is that we can’t afford to be cynical.

In the morning making Firaaq seemed meaningless, but as I type away furiously, hoping to catch up with the speed of my emotions, I feel I want to share the film with everyone, more than ever before.

Because I know this day will end but the residue it will leave will linger long after, in the form of fear, anger, prejudice, revenge, and will slowly become part of our psyche.

We have to save ourselves from all this and have to find a way to understand, empathise and love. All these beautiful words I know sound clichéd. We have to reclaim these and make them a part of our life, with all our might.

Personally, in a strange way, I know today is a turning point in my life.

Nandita Das is an actress and director. Firaaq, her directorial debut, is set a month after the Gujarat riots and explores the human response to violence, the fear that invades lives and homes.

[mohanty]

Speaking of Indian response, this gives the true essence of what it has been and what you can expect in terms of response no matter how much we discuss.

Such small incidents happen: Maharashtra Deputy CM

bade shahron mein aise ek adh hadse hote rahte hain. Woh 5,000 logon ko marne aye the lekin humne kitna kum nuksan hone diya .

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Such ... 774274.cms

Somebody give him, Shiva Patil and MMS Bharat Ratna. Tomorrow back to cricket and bollywood.

[Prem]

Hmm , this lady talk about hate but dont realize she is morally responsible when she provide comfort for the same ideology which inspire terrorists .Her only concern is about the reaction by victims of islamic terrorism in the name of their God , Prophet and Book. What about having few words for brave security forces who risked their life for people like her bust undermining the very country they live in.

Now she should know why she is called a friend of these "innocent young " terroirsts who killed and maimed without remorse in the name of Allah.

[putnanja]

Parents of slain NSG Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan, who was killed while trying to pursue a fleeing terrorist at Taj Hotel, having a last look of their brave son.

Indian commandos are given roses and thanked by residents of Mumbai after they retook control of the Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai on Saturday, Nov. 29, 2008. (AP)

[ramana]

A big mistake is being made due to misperception that this is a criminal act. Its a commando attack of war. All those FBI evidence gathering lamnets are all irrelevant.

Also thanks to INC confusing minority support with terrorist activities there is a big delusion in the Indian elite that going after terrorists is a anti-minority action. Hence the muddled thinking of Nandita Das who probably got her first break in films thru underworld financing of Bollywood films.

[putnanja]

Delhi’s dilemma as ISI chief refuses visit

Delhi’s dilemma as ISI chief refuses visit

Our Bureau

New Delhi, Nov 29 Following the refusal of the ISI chief to come to India, the Union Government is faced with a difficult choice. If it agrees to a lower level officer coming in his place, it will be seen as an insult to the Prime Minister, Mr Manmohan Singh, who requested Pakistan to send the ISI chief here. If it says no to a visit from a lower level functionary, as it well might, considering it was Mr Singh who had extended the invitation, the process of intelligence sharing will be stillborn.

According to reliable sources, the Prime Minister’s rather unorthodox request has kicked up a major storm within the Pakistani establishment. Partly, it is being said, the problem is because the invitation has been misinterpreted as a summons. This is because of the way the Indian TV channels reported the invitation.

DOMESTIC RESISTANCE


India has been at pains to convince Pakistani officials to see how such a visit, aimed at sharing intelligence, would benefit both countries. But thanks to domestic resistance to the idea, nothing much is expected to come of it now.

In general, however, the “peace” process is expected to receive only a temporary setback. The US is pushing both countries to keep talking to each other. Attacks by terrorists notwithstanding, India also has a huge vested interest in the ‘civilianisation’ of Pakistan.

The ISI, which is essentially an army outfit, is not pleased at the prospect.

“That is the crux of the current Pakistani dilemma,” says a retired IFS official who has served in Pakistan. “The ISI is manned by the military, does war-like things but has a major say on the civilian side of the governance of Pakistan.”

Many observers of the Pakistani scene are aware of the fact that the Pakistan Government’s real powers are severely circumscribed by the ISI. “It is almost a parallel government that the ISI runs in matters relating to foreign policy and certain aspects of domestic politics,” says another expert.

DETERMINED GOVT


The new Zardari Government appears determined to run Pakistan on its own but has to face up to the reality of the ISI.

The US too has been expressing concern and has put the ISI on notice by revealing to India that the ISI had had a hand in the attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul.

[John Snow]

ramana garu>> you are mis judging the ingeneuity of Indian politicians and congress wallahs,
If they dont paint this as law and order, or small misguided individuals from outside the country wrecking mayhem, they have to act. If acknowledged as undeclared war by TSP we have to retaliate, why bother, just focus on economy, commited citizens died for the country so that netas can disburse medals, attend funeral right after attending cocktail parties, make bhashans and then again go back to more cocktail parties, inbetween make a 10 minute photo opportunity/media publicity appearence on TV.

This is the maya cycle we live in.
Oh by the way where is narayan murthy and his outsourcing band wagon lamenting the bad aspects of war?

[putnanja]

Karan Thapar's verbal diarrhea...

When Zardari came to town

“There’s a little bit of India in every Pakistani and a little bit of Pakistan in every Indian. I do not know whether it is the Indian or the Pakistani in me that is talking today”

The more I think about what he said, the more stunned I am he said it. But it’s not just his content that is startling. The fact that Asif Zardari was speaking as President of Pakistan to an Indian audience, in full knowledge that he was doing so on live television, makes his statements all the more amazing. Not one of his predecessors would have spoken so openly and with such obvious personal conviction. Indeed even his late wife, Benazir, would have been more circumspect.

To begin with, it’s the number of commitments he readily made. Pakistan has accepted a no-first-use of nuclear weapons policy. “I can assure you that Pakistan will not be the first country ever to use (nuclear weapons)”, he said. When I asked if this was a no-first-use assurance, adding “if so you have just made headline news”, he immediately replied: “most certainly”.

At one stroke, the Pakistani President reversed his country’s traditional insistence on keeping open the option of using nuclear weapons first. I don’t know what his army thinks, but Nawaz Sharif’s PML (N) has publicly endorsed the Zardari line. So even if voices in the press are critical, he has majority support in Parliament.

Next were two expressions of future intent. He wants to see India and Pakistan establish an economic union. He did not explain in detail but he said they should aim for joint economic super power status. And he said he was in favour of “a flexible visa regime, eliminating travel documents … replacing them with (a) smart card enabled E-visa system.”

“We don’t feel threatened by India”, Zardari said. “India should also not feel threatened by us.” And then, to re-inforce his point, he added: “I want change and reconciliation.”

For me, however, the most important thing Asif Zardari said was not in response to questions and so it can’t be explained away as an off-the-cuff or unthought-out answer. It was part of his prepared speech. It was, therefore, a well-considered, planned and carefully crafted statement which, of course, makes it all the more incredible.

“There’s a little bit of India in every Pakistani and a little bit of Pakistan in every Indian”. As he said those words a perceptible hush fall on the audience. They literally couldn’t believe their ears. But Asif Zardari wasn’t finished. “I do not know whether it is the Indian or the Pakistani in me that is talking to you today”. As I looked at the seated dignitaries in front of me I saw a sea of flashing smiles and sparkling eyes looking at Zardari on the big screen. Seconds later, they were vigorously applauding.

Asif Zardari said he was quoting his wife. Benazir Bhutto had spoken in 2000. In fact in 2005, when he visited Lahore, L.K. Advani said something very similar. But both of them were leaders of the opposition, a post that allows the holder to speak freely. And they weren’t speaking at a high profile gathering broadcast live. In contrast, Zardari is President of Pakistan. He was addressing one of the most publicised conferences in India. And he knew the media was waiting for every word he said.

I’m not sure if the presidents of North Korea or East Germany (whilst it existed) have ever spoken in such terms, but I doubt it. Certainly the leaders of divided Ireland have not. Nor the Malays and Singaporeans or the Indonesians and East Timorese. Yet the President of Pakistan has! I see this as an indication of Asif Zardari’s thinking and his attitude to India. And I believe he meant it because if he did not the sentence would have got stuck in his throat. It’s almost impossible to express such sentiments when you are lying.

The only question is can he deliver? And, I suppose, how soon? But there is another question we should pose to ourselves: how can we strengthen his hands without, of course, embarrassing him? If a friend can help you, whilst helping himself, it makes sense to help him too. Kids understand that instinctively, adults sometimes forget!

[brihaspati]

Nandita should convert to Islam and go and live in Pakistan or other Islamic countries where Sharia law holds. All her confusion and "bemuddling" will get cleared quickly. All the non-Muslim prominent men in Indian politics, media and acedemics men desperately pitching in for Islam and trying to see to it that the source cause of Jihadi terror - the ideology of Islam is not hurt, can probably look forward to all the control over women's bodies that will be assured to them under Islam if they convert and live in an Islamic country (moderators, before deciding to axe this - please consider that the Shariah clearly states the "den-mohar" is the price for the use of the "buza" -literally the genitalia and sexual consummation of the marital contract, and that the price covers the entire body) - but what for women like Nandita? Another Bengali woman tried sometime ago - and wrote of her experiences in a book that can be roughly translated as "Bengali wife of the Kabuliwallah" - Nandita can try to read up on a fellow traveler.

Banter apart, it was a curious observation on my part during my student days that there appeared to be a significant curiosity about "Muslim men" in "upper caste Hindu" young women, and the general impression - presented in the form of criticism and disapproval probably for social porpriety that "Muslim men" were more "ardent lovers". I have thought since then, that jokes apart - is there a point here that "Hindu" men should take lessons from, become better "lovers"? The Chachnama describes how a Muslim adventurer managed to seduce a Sindhi queen and she helped him to liquidate her husband, turn over the land to Muslims. She must have been very very unhappy in lots of marital departments and became a serious security risk for the state!