Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 30 Nov 2008 05:50

^^^Exactly, unless there some more squealing Ms.Piggies, we don't know about.

I doubt it though.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 30 Nov 2008 05:51

Insensitivity reigns
And we curse only our politicians.

When everyone collectively chants "Life must go on" during tragic situations they don’t expect people to think the party too should go on. It’s not just Mumbai, India has been violated by the recent terror attacks and it’s insensitive of citizens tucked away in different cities to host and enjoy lavish soirees when so many hostages’ and brave soldiers’ corpses are not yet cold.

Dressing up, surfing the social waves from party to party, posing for pictures, downing drinks and having a merry time is as hideous as Nero playing his violin when Rome burned. Let’s not do a Raj Thackeray and pretend that Maharashtra is a separate entity which has nothing to do with our country. This is a period of mourning; we have cops, NSG commandos and innocent citizens who lost their lives, to grieve for.

In Hyderabad, Thursday and Friday nights were packed with parties and events. While pubs were flooded with indifferent party-goers who danced away the nights of terror, others went ahead with their birthday parties and anniversary bashes, unperturbed.

Expats in the city called off their Thanksgiving dinner but Dr Raghuram went ahead with his at a star hotel. Though he said "It wasn’t a party... was rather low-key they did observe silence... he couldn’t cancel it in the last moment..." his guests were dressed to the hilt, all set to be seen and photographed.

Nandan Nilekani called off his book release, but Rajyalakshmi Rao went ahead with hers. Agreed, weddings cannot be called off but certainly other celebrations can.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 30 Nov 2008 05:54

‘He had always wanted to die a hero’s death’

Dehradun: The tiny village of Ganeshpur turned out in full strength to bid adieu to its hero, Havaldar Gajendra Singh Bisht (36), the National Security Guards (NSG) commando who died fighting terrorists in Mumbai.

Havaldar Gajendra’s mortal remains were consigned to the flames with full military honours on Saturday afternoon with more than a thousand people from Ganeshpur and its adjoining villages participating in the funeral.

“He had always wanted to be in the forces and had always wanted to die like a hero. And that is precisely what happened,” said his brother, Birender Singh Bisht, an official in the Uttarakhand Police. Amongst those present to pay their respects to the martyr was his teacher from Janata Inter College in Naya Gaon Subhash Chand Jasola. “He had studied in the college from 1980 to 1990. I cannot forget his interest in sports, particularly boxing. He was a disciplined student and participated in every event organised in the school, be it sports or cultural activities,” said Jasola, who teaches English at the college. He said that Havaldar Gajendra is the third student from the college to have died for the country in military operations. Earlier, two of his former students had died during the Kargil operations. Havaldar Gajendra had also participated in the Kargil operations.

The college was shut for the day in honour of Havaldar Gajendra’s sacrifice and the entire staff and students had turned up for his funeral.

“I met him last in August when our father Late Daulat Singh had died. Thereafter, we had been in touch on phone,” said his brother. He said Gajendra joined the Garhwal Rifles in 1991 and then chose to be part of the 10 Para (Special Force). Thereafter, he had opted to be a NSG commando. He was based in Delhi when he was asked to be part of Mumbai operation.

“After having dinner on November 26, he got a call from his office saying that an alert has been sounded. He had left the house carrying bare essentials, telling me that he would be back in a while. It was a couple of hours later that we were told that he had been sent to Mumbai,” said his wife Vineeta Devi (31). She said her husband wanted their daughter Preeti (10) to be an air hostess and son Gaurav (12) to be an Army officer. “I wonder where we are faltering in dealing with terrorism. We have the best of forces and technology. We need to ponder why innocents are losing their lives while those compromising with their duties are making millions,” said the deceased’s maternal uncle Dr Hoshiar Singh Negi.

...

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 30 Nov 2008 06:03

Nayak this is why there should be dedicated unit for each metro region.

Why did NSG take 9 hrs to get there?

NEW DELHI: The terrorists strike Mumbai at 9.30pm. Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh is in Kerala. He is briefed about the attack on the city’s prime locations. By the time Deshmukh grasps the enormity of the situation, 90 minutes have gone by.

He rings Union home minister Shivraj Patil at 11pm and asks for NSG commandos. "How many men?" Patil asks. "200," says the CM. Patil calls NSG chief J K Dutt and tells him to send 200 battle-ready commandos to Mumbai.

Most of the NSG men have to be roused from sleep. They don their uniforms, strap on safety gear, collect ammo and firearms. It is discovered that the only plane that can take 200 men, the IL 76, is not in Delhi but Chandigarh. Precious minutes are ticking by.

The IL 76 pilot is woken, the plane refuelled. It reaches Delhi at 2am. By the time the commandos get in and the plane takes off, four-and-a-half hours have elapsed. Experts say that unless a response is mounted within 30 minutes of an attack, the enemy can assume key defensive positions.

It takes the aircraft almost three hours to land at Mumbai airport. Unlike the Boeing and Airbus, IL 76 is a slow plane. By the time the NSG commandos board the waiting buses it is 5.25am.

The buses take another 40 minutes to reach the designated place in south Mumbai where the commandos are briefed, divided into different groups and sent out on their mission.

By the time they start their operation, it is 7am — in other words, nine-and-a-half hours after the terror strike.

Many lives might have been saved had this delay not happened. The obvious question is why is the NSG stationed only in Delhi. When Indian cities are vulnerable to terror attacks, why is there no commando force like the NSG, or its units, in every city?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Nov 2008 06:16

Diplomacy: Efforts to ease tension between two nuclear powers

George J · Post by **George J** » 30 Nov 2008 06:18

Shalav wrote:Well you got your crow soup! Maybe this time or in the near future you (we) will get this wish fulfilled too. Diwali is gone, but Christmas is around the corner......I just keep hoping MMS does not find an excuse to negotiate another one more peace. A futile hope I fear, but what to do? We are Indians only!

The soup was deeeelish. But that was over 5 years ago (and it started and ended in less than a year). This one has been one of BR Hot Air forum jewels and its still pending for over 7 years. We know how Hot air prides itself on being ahead of the curve. The same things that applied in 2001 apply today, whosoever is in power will have to be decisive: what happens when the Bangaluru IT-Vity whine about travel advisories the moment there is any overt or covert actions taken so that we all can have tea at RYK.

Mort Walker wrote:Yaar...You've been yelling about the Phalcons for over 5 years now. Had a full out hot war had happened after baara-theraa 2001, the non delivery of Phalcons would have meant less. TSP nukes were less and more primitive. Now, 7 years later TSP forces are in better shape today, thanks to unkil, to withstand the IA, IAF and IN.

The ground realities then, still apply today (accept for the international casualties of this incident). Militarily we are in a much better position today (except for stuff that our new friend can/will squeeze us on) but economically those Bangalore IT-Vity travel advisory fearing guys still have a direct line. So the status quo still remains. Only difference is that BR Hot Air is still naive or delusional or quixotic enough to believe that "blockade" and tea at RYK is possible.

So where were we? Oh yeah the Blockade...go on...I am all ears.

cbelwal · Post by **cbelwal** » 30 Nov 2008 06:22

Unfortunately the politicians for whom killing of 195 people is a 'small' thing and openly support SIMI, Dawood and all their kind are elected by the same people who are later aghast when they are massacared like lambs. Before change can come the 1 billion+ emotional and naive citizenry of India has to realize that one cannot fight a Kali Yug war with Satya Yug logic. Even after this act there is an eerie absense of collective anger in the streets of Mumbai, let alone India. The road to enlightenment seems to be a long one.

George J · Post by **George J** » 30 Nov 2008 06:29

Sumeet wrote:Nayak this is why there should be dedicated unit for each metro region.

Why did NSG take 9 hrs to get there?

By around 10:00 pm the Marcos were requested (I think around the time the Police bands started crackling with the news that Mr. Karkare/Kamte/Saluskar were injured and rushed to the hospital). Why did it take the death of these guys to deploy them? Coz till 11/25/2008 automatic gun fire was only associated with the underworld not terrorist. The Marcos were up deployed at the Taj by midnight. They pretty much held the fort till NSG arrived, they were the guys who briefed NSG with on-site and precise intel. I don't think the Marcos wanted to play such a central role in this affair but I shudder to think what would have happened for the nine hours they were NOT there.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 30 Nov 2008 06:34

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/29m ... mmando.htm

The commando, who did not wish to be named, said the battle was over at 3 PM on Friday itself. The terrorists had started to lose motivation at 3 PM on Friday. In his own words, the NSG commando says woh log toh bore ho gaye.

'On day one, when we began the combat, these men were extremely aggressive. We had just entered the hotel and realised that they were in a very strong position. On the second day, it looked like they were losing ground. However, they did not seem to be giving up.

'The exchange was fierce between both parties and they resorted to hurling grenades several times in order to block the route for us. It was actually the third day that made the difference. The exchange of fire escalated and we decided to engage in the fire and not let up. This gun battle in fact broke them and we took the upper hand in the battle.'

The mindset of the terrorist:
'As I had pointed out earlier, these terrorists were aggressive by nature. They were running about and most of the time they were cursing us in Hindi. They looked determined to fight till the very end. However, on day three we saw their attitude sagging.

'We continued to fire at them and they retorted only with a single shot. That is how low their morale was. Unlike the first day when they were coming on to us and firing back, day three saw them taking cover most of the time. They kept hurling grenades at us. However, that too came down when we retaliated.

'The terrorists hardly spoke and we could never hear their conversation. On day three, when they realised that they were losing the battle they began screaming and cursing us in bad language. I think they were speaking in Hindi.

The final assault:
'After we realised that their position had weakened, our next aim was to step in save the remaining hostages. But we realised that we had approached the end game and so did they. As the night wore on they began killing the rest of the hostages, who they had kept in a room. There was nothing we could do about it.

'When we realised that they had no more hostages left to use as a shield, we began increasing the pressure and began pushing them to a corner and got ready for an all out assault. By 6 AM on Saturday, we had them totally cornered. They were all killed in the ensuing exchange.

'During the last few minutes, both hurled grenades at each other and due to this a part of the building caught fire. The last of the terrorists was caught in the fire and he fell off the window and lost his life.

The numbers:
'A total of 180 commandos were involved in the operation. Some of us took a break from time to time. Some of us briefly even went to the Nariman House to finish off the operation.

'During the operation at the Taj, we saw there were more than 8 terrorists. However, we do not know how many civilians were trapped in the building.

Tactics and weapons:
'The idea of the terrorists was to continue fighting for as long as possible. They too were aware that their battle could be on only until they had hostages as human shields. They had with them AK-47s and hand grenades and it looked like they had a lot of ammunition on them.

'All through the battle they tried to keep us away from them. We also do not rule out that they were even trying to bring the building down by starting fires all over. We had at our disposal a host of automatic weapons and stun grenades, which we used with great effect to scare and disorient the terrorists.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 30 Nov 2008 06:36

On a more non-serious issue, where is the imbecile Raj Thackeray ? What happened to his promise of protecting mumbaikars with his 'marathi-manoos' crusade ?

It was a Keralite/Bangalorean (Sandeep Unnikrishnan) and a Haryanvi (Gajendra Singh) who gave up their lives.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Nov 2008 06:39

Three days and nights - the pigs had to keep awake, with little food. I am sure they cam prepared for that. But, I have a gut feeling, and therefore subscribe to the story, that they wanted the hotels completely destroyed. No proof - yet.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Nov 2008 06:42

Nayak wrote:On a more non-serious issue, where is the imbecile Raj Thackeray ? What happened to his promise of protecting mumbaikars with his 'marathi-manoos' crusade ?

It was a Keralite/Bangalorean (Sandeep Unnikrishnan) and a Haryanvi (Gajendra Singh) who gave up their lives.

Don't think we need to get into that aspect. Plenty of Maharashtrians/Marathas lost their lives too.

Need to leave politicos out of this picture. Top to bottom they did not perform.

cbelwal · Post by **cbelwal** » 30 Nov 2008 06:42

Raj is going to be quiet for some time, will bark when things settle down.

Havaldar Gajendra Singh was from Uttarakhand. May his soul rest in pace.

Nayak wrote:On a more non-serious issue, where is the imbecile Raj Thackeray ? What happened to his promise of protecting mumbaikars with his 'marathi-manoos' crusade ?

It was a Keralite/Bangalorean (Sandeep Unnikrishnan) and a Haryanvi (Gajendra Singh) who gave up their lives.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 30 Nov 2008 06:45

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14808493

New Delhi: It was the least political intervention and near perfect coordination among the forces, apart from the bravery of commandoes, that led to the success of the anti-terror operation in Mumbai, defence officials said on Saturday.

Black Cat commandoes of the elite National Security Guard (NSG) along with the Indian Navy's Marcos marine commandos and three armed forces calibrated the nearly 60-hour long Operation Black Tornado to successfully neutralise the terrorists holed up inside three landmark buildings in south Mumbai.

"The key to success in the operation was the least political intervention. We assured the political top brass that we would keep them updated on the situation but also sought an assurance that there will be least political intervention in the operation," a senior defence official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The 477 rigorously-trained commandoes earned the gratitude of the nation as they successfully tackled a group of armed terrorists, wrested two five-hotels and a residential-cum-business building in India's commercial capital from them and gunned down nine ultras and captured one.

"The second key point of the whole operation was the better coordination among the three forces. A four-tier line of attack was formulated to smoke out the terrorists," another defence official added.

"In the first ring were the NSG commandoes and Marcos followed by Army personnel in the second. Third line of attack comprised the ATS (Anti-Terrorism Squad) preceded by police personnel in the fourth," the official said.

In the whole operation, the Indian Air Force (IAF) provided logistics support with its IL-76 transport aircraft ferrying the commandoes from the national capital to Mumbai early Thursday.

One Mi-17 airdropped commandoes on Nariman House, where the gunmen had held a number of people, including several Jews, hostage.

The IAF also stationed its two Mi-8 helicopters in Mumbai that were used for surveillance of the coastline after the terror attack.

The longest terror drama in Indian history also saw the media reporting the developments minute by minute and that called for media management on the part of the forces.

"We also planned for a better media management since yesterday (Friday) morning. We realized that while the media was playing a positive role by updating the nation about the incident, the rumours spread by using the media were also damaging.
"Hence, we requested mediapersons to withhold certain details vital for the operation and arranged for media interactions with senior officials to give them credible information about the incident," the official added.

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 30 Nov 2008 06:45

Mumbai locals helped us, terrorist tells cops
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumb ... 774106.cms
MUMBAI Did some Mumbai locals provide support to the Pakistani terrorists? Azam Amir Kasab, the only Pakistani terrorist nabbed alive, has revealed names and addresses of at least five people from the city who helped the terror operation.

It would have been better if ATS had witheld the information regarding arrest of sole terrorist. It would have helped in arresting of more pigs. They would have fleed by now.

On a more non-serious issue, where is the imbecile Raj Thackeray ? What happened to his promise of protecting mumbaikars with his 'marathi-manoos' crusade ?

It was a Keralite/Bangalorean (Sandeep Unnikrishnan) and a Haryanvi (Gajendra Singh) who gave up their lives.

Ok,i agree raj thakre's theory have been proved wrong. But its not the time to raise question against any regional neta, rather than unite. untill or unless we don't unite we will be back to same place.
It was the same scene in 93. his uncle was on rampage by then.but he stopped after 93 blasts.

beside, in a local channel i saw a depressed bihari, claiming how can he live in mumbai. some time MNS kicks his ass and now terrorists.(he was hit by bullet in hand while he was returning home at CST)

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 30 Nov 2008 06:48

N^3
Here is some info from Wiki on Al Timmi

My mistake. The woman-beating specialist was someone else. This one is the indicted terrorist-instructor. Apparently used to give fiery speeches that only our LalMullah could match in recent times.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 30 Nov 2008 06:50

I followed MSNBC (NBC) coverage. They initially reported 9 captured, 11 killed (of 40 total, 29 of whom were pakis, 9 Beedis, 2 Brits), rest still loose. That was on second day.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 30 Nov 2008 06:50

e-mail came from Pakistan

Praveen Swami

MUMBAI: Forensic experts have determined that an e-mail claim of responsibility for Wednesday’s terror attacks issued by an until-now unknown terror group was first generated on a computer located in Pakistan. Issued by a group calling itself the ‘Deccan Mujahideen,’ the e-mail was sent out to TV newsrooms, minutes after the attacks in Mumbai.

Based on studies of the internet protocol addresses used to send the mail, computer specialists at India’s RAW found that the Russia-based e-mail address used to send the document was opened early on Wednesday. This e-mail account was opened by a computer user based in Pakistan.

Government sources said RAW experts have determined, using specialised analytical software, that the document was generated using a voice-recognition software which allowed dictated text to be typed in the Devnagari font.

Modelled on a series of English-language manifesto issued by the Indian Mujahideen after the terror group bombed New Delhi in September, the similarities in content and style between the two documents raised the possibility that their authors could be linked.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 30 Nov 2008 06:50

When are we shifting back to cricket and latest scandal started by Rakhi Saawant on Bollywood ?

The reason why I am asking this question is after 4 days of the saga, I am yet to hear any loser from the Italian National Congress come forward with a plan.

I am a mango (aam) abdul, when I leave my cave, I am not sure I will return back, to forget about the insecurity of my worthless life I need my opium (entertainment) fix.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 30 Nov 2008 06:51

But I am disappointed that Raj Thackrey did not come out and fight for his Mumbai when terrorist were attacking it. I mean he did not even come near the action scene and even f@rt. Is he for real? Is he good as other TSPian, harassing and killing innocent women, children and weeker people.

Thanks
fanne

Ps- I have talked to few Marathis friend and who were against Raj (as in had a soft corner but on second thought said he is wrong), are not taking any criticism of him now, I guess more because lets not talk politics now. Even some have become rather protective towards him. Like in closing the ranks in face of grave danger

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Nov 2008 06:52

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

The usual TSP rant of sending troops fighting on their western front to their eastern front!!!!!!!!!!!

November 30, 2008
Apprehensive of Reprisals, Pakistanis Deny a Role
By JANE PERLEZ and SALMAN MASOOD

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Apprehensive about potential reprisals by India over the Mumbai terrorist attacks, the Pakistani government insisted Saturday that it had not been involved. It pledged to take action against Pakistan-based militants if they were found to be implicated.

“Our hands are clean,” the Pakistani foreign minister, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, said at a news conference. “Any entity or group involved in the ghastly act, the Pakistan government will proceed against it.”

The government called a crisis cabinet meeting on Saturday, a day after Indian officials suggested that a militant group with Pakistani ties, Lashkar-e-Taiba, was responsible for the attacks. Similar accusations after an attack on the Indian Parliament by another group, Jaish-e-Muhammad, brought the two governments to the brink of war in 2002.

But while the civilian leaders, including President Asif Ali Zardari, called for calm on Saturday, Pakistani security officials warned that they were preparing to move troops toward the border if need be. The security officials, speaking at a press briefing in which the ground rules prohibited identifying them by name, said that if the situation worsened, troops stationed in western Pakistan could be moved within 72 hours. “We’re ready for any contingency,” one security official said.

The security officials also noted that such a move would be likely to upset the United States, because it would mean resources were being moved away from the fight against Islamic militants in the western areas bordering Afghanistan.

Even Mr. Qureshi, at his news conference, suggested that conflict could not be ruled out. “We should hope for the best, plan for the worst,” he said.

At the center of the Pakistan’s concern is the suggestion by Indian officials that Lashkar-e-Taiba, which originated in Kashmir, was responsible for the Mumbai attacks. American intelligence and counterterrorism officials have also said there was mounting evidence that the group had been involved.

Lashkar-e-Taiba, which has a track record of attacks against India, has received training and support from Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, according to widespread intelligence reports. The United States has contended that Pakistan has turned a blind eye to Lashkar-e-Taiba training camps in Kashmir, the disputed Himalayan territory over which India and Pakistan have fought two wars.

The group, along with Jaish-e-Muhammad, was banned in 2002 by Gen. Pervez Musharraf, who was president at the time, and the links between the ISI and the groups were sharply reduced, according to United States intelligence officials.

But members of Lashkar-e-Taiba joined other groups and moved much of their activity from Kashmir to the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, where the Taliban and Al Qaeda operate, Pakistani experts on the groups said. Now, Lashkar-e-Taiba militants operating as Al Badar and under other names participate in training camps in the tribal region and cooperate with the Taliban and Al Qaeda, they said.

Even though Mr. Musharraf banned Lashkar-e-Taiba and apparently severed official connections, the group was able to flourish in other incarnations in part because until early this year, Islamist parties supported by Mr. Musharraf controlled the North-West Frontier Province, next to the tribal areas.

What particularly worries the Pakistani government is the prospect of a repeat of the high tension between India and Pakistan when the two nuclear-armed countries mobilized troops on their borders and remained on the brink of war for much of 2002, after the attack on Parliament.

In that situation, Pakistan, under the leadership of General Musharraf, refused to accede to India’s demands to hand over the leaders of Jaish-e-Muhammad for trial, a refusal that pushed India to mobilize one of its biggest military operations.

In contrast to its stance then, however, the civilian Pakistani government now seems eager to avoid a military confrontation.The new government has participated in talks to improve relations with India, including joint efforts to counterterrorism and to build trade.

Mr. Qureshi, sounding almost impassioned at times in his news conference, noted that he was in India when the Mumbai attacks unfolded Wednesday night and that he stayed until Friday night. While in India, he pleaded with the Indian news media to be “responsible” and to stop the accusations of Pakistani “without complete evidence,” he said.

It is important, he said, that so far the Indian government has not blamed the government of Pakistan for the attacks. “They are suspecting perhaps groups or organizations that could have (?????) a presence here,” he said.

The Pakistani government also faces opposition at home in its handling of the crisis.

When Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani promised Friday to dispatch the chief of the Inter-Services Intelligence agency to India to confer with the investigators there, the opposition parties in Pakistan immediately objected.

The parties accused the government of capitulating to the Indians, who had asked for the intelligence chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, to go to New Delhi. Much was made in Pakistan of a headline in The Times of India that said the Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, had “summoned” General Pasha.

The Pakistani Army objected to General Pasha’s visiting India, and by late Friday, the government announced it had changed its mind, saying that a lower-level intelligence official would go to India in connection with the Mumbai investigation at an undetermined time in the future

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 30 Nov 2008 06:52

shynee wrote:e-mail came from Pakistan

Praveen Swami

Government sources said RAW experts have determined, using specialised analytical software, that the document was generated using a voice-recognition software which allowed dictated text to be typed in the Devnagari font.

Modelled on a series of English-language manifesto issued by the Indian Mujahideen after the terror group bombed New Delhi in September, the similarities in content and style between the two documents raised the possibility that their authors could be linked.

These guys deserve a cookie for their efforts.

The moot question bwana is, what are we going to do about it ? I believe our respected PM will ask a baboo to send the protest to Pakistan and file it in triplicate for analysis.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 30 Nov 2008 06:54

Some details of how the NSG made pigs fly:

Giving details of Saturday’s shoot-out, [Havaldar Azad Singh] said, “we were doing room checks when shots were fired at us. We ducked a grenade hurled inside the room.”

After a few seconds of the blast, the terrorists fired yet again making the commandos answer with double firepower.

“I was asked to move ahead and I did so by firing continuously. Inside the room was a terrorist who had got shot and he staggered behind and hit the window. I sensed an opportunity and fired at him and he fell out because of the shots,” he added.

Full report: http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/30/stories ... 101600.htm

Nayak wrote:
'During the last few minutes, both hurled grenades at each other and due to this a part of the building caught fire. The last of the terrorists was caught in the fire and he fell off the window and lost his life.

Why different accounts of the same incident, is the media adding it's own spice?

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 30 Nov 2008 06:55

British connection to the Mumbai attacks would be no surprise
British connection to the Mumbai attacks would be no surprise
Posted By: Philip Johnston at Nov 28, 2008 at 13:12:25 [General]
Posted in: Politics , Three Line Whip
Tags:British connection, Islamists, Mumbai, pakistan, terrorism

The suggestion that some British nationals may be involved in the terrorist attacks in Mumbai confirms the worldwide nature of the terrorist web whose poisonous spiders lurk in the lawless northern regions of Pakistan.

Intelligence officials in the UK say there is no evidence yet to confirm this but it would not be surprising if it were true.

British nationals with Pakistani backgrounds have been involved in many terrorist incidents, both in this country and abroad.

The first indications that radicalised British Muslims were travelling abroad to fight emerged from Bosnia in the mid-1990s. In 1998, British casualties were reported among the dead in mujahideen camps in Afghanistan attacked by American missiles.

In 2002, the American journalist Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered in Pakistan by Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh. Originally from east London, he attended a British public school before dropping out of the LSE.

Another British-born Muslim extremist, belonging to the Pakistani-based militant organisation Jaish-i-Muhamnmad, killed 32 people when he rammed a lorry packed with explosives into an Indian army barracks in Kashmir.

In 2003, two other British, Asif Mohammed Hanif and Omar Sharif, travelled to Tel Aviv to carry out a suicide bomb attack there.

One thing that all had in common, apart from their faith, is that they attended mosques or events in Britain where fundamentalist messages were routinely issued. They also had family links with Pakistan which made it easier for them to travel to the country where they would be trained by jihadists. They had already been radicalised at home. An estimated 400,000 trips a year are made by Britons of Pakistani origin to their ancestral homeland.

While radicalised Islamists may have attended mainstream schools, they do so in the company of other Muslims. After school, they may have special Koranic classes. They go to mosques where preachers extol the glories of jihad. They belong to a stratum of our society that disavows the mainstream culture and is often divorced from it. They own their greater allegiance to their faith and to politics than to Britain.

If it turns out that British citizens were involved, MI5 will at least hope that they have had their suspicions about them otherwise this would mean they are entirely 'off radar.'

However, if the security service did know about them the question will then arise as to whether any information about them was handed over to the Pakistanis and, if so, whether it was acted upon.

More to the point, if a British connection is confirmed, everyone will wonder why Scotland Yard's counter-terroism command has the time to arrest and question a Tory MP for embarrassing the government over immigration when its principal task is tracking those who are a real risk to the security of this nation and of others.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 30 Nov 2008 06:57

OK, how many pigs have been caught alive for debriefing?

From post some distance above: Miss Piggy:
Azam Amir Kasab

Now read this about the "vermillion used to fool Navy"
An arrested militant Ajmal Amin told the interrogators that they saw some Navy men when their hijacked fishing boat was approaching the Indian shores.

Are Ass am Amir Sheesh Kebab and Aj-mal Amin the same, or now have we confirmed TWO? This is getting better.

Note: The earlier reports mentioned THREE captured, of who ONE was Paki two maybe British-Paki.

We need a clear list. There were three other names: Shaardula, Imran, and Imran-Something. All presumably pest-e-sha'eed.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 30 Nov 2008 07:00

The guy on the phone with India TV was sad-ullah right?
Non-consistency by media and intelligence sources is causing a lot of confusion.

Maybe later on an official version will come out and all these reporters should stick to same story.

narayanan wrote:
OK, how many pigs have been caught alive for debriefing?

From post some distance above: Miss Piggy:
Now read this about the "vermillion used to fool Navy"

Are Ass am Amir Sheesh Kebab and Aj-mal Amin the same, or now have we confirmed TWO? This is getting better.

Note: The earlier reports mentioned THREE captured, of who ONE was Paki two maybe British-Paki.

We need a clear list. There were three other names: Shaardula, Imran, and Imran-Something. All presumably pest-e-sha'eed.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Nov 2008 07:00

parsuram wrote:I followed MSNBC (NBC) coverage. They initially reported 9 captured, 11 killed (of 40 total, 29 of whom were pakis, 9 Beedis, 2 Brits), rest still loose. That was on second day.

One report said the nine were fishermen or crew of the intercepted boats

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 30 Nov 2008 07:01

Initial report of 9 captured were all suspects, locals that police had picked. They were none of thepigs from accross the border. Not to say that they do not have more than 1, but lets not mix those two reports.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 30 Nov 2008 07:02

Something tells me more pigs and their local support network have been caught by now. The police department lost its men and would likely be highly un-amused.

The fact that there is no news of such 'arrests' made public yet is a good sign. So as not to get the HR/WKK/psec publicity wh0res all riled up.

Better to have the suspects tried by special tribunals away from PR glare. If guilty, appropriate interrogation would be in order to save more lives and pre-empt any second wave of attacks. It is the creation of such tribunals, redefinition of the standards of evidence etc that requires new legislation. Bipartisan cooperation in such an endeavor would be an amazing thing.

Also, dire need for a central investigative, forensic and prosecutorial agency that steps in and takes the matter outta the jurisdiction of local law enforcement. Simply so that no local MLA can be pressured to get on the phone and try to interfere with the process.

JMTPs etc.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Nov 2008 07:08

I think this is getting out of hand. GoI has NOT said that Pakistan was involved, all India has said is that the terrorist caught is from Pakistan and that the group may been aided by Pakistani based terrorist group/s. Why is Pakistan getting all worked up?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

Pakistan Rejects India's Charges, Seeks Proof

By Emily Wax and Rama Lakshmi
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, November 30, 2008; Page A19

MUMBAI, Nov. 29 -- Pakistan demanded late Saturday that India produce evidence to support allegations that it was involved in the three-day assault on India's financial and cultural capital, which came to a close earlier in the day.

Indian officials said they had killed or captured 10 gunmen responsible for the rampage through Mumbai, as authorities pulled more bodies from the wreckage of the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower hotel. Mourners marched in tearful funeral processions for some of the nearly 200 people killed in the attacks, which also targeted another hotel, a Jewish center and several other sites. Six Americans were among the dead, and hundreds were injured.

Indian intelligence officials said Saturday that the only surviving attacker was from Pakistan.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said his government was not involved. "If they have evidence, they should share it with us. Our hands are clean," he said at a news conference in Islamabad, Pakistan's capital. "We have nothing to be ashamed of."

Pakistan warned that it would redeploy troops involved in the terrorism fight on its border with Afghanistan to its frontier with India in response to any Indian troop movements.

"Tension with India is mounting. The situation is very critical, and the next 48 hours are very crucial," a senior Pakistani official said on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation. He said Pakistan had put its air force and navy on high alert. "In case of any Indian aggression, Pakistan will respond to it in a matching way," he said.

In Washington, U.S. intelligence officials said evidence continues to point to Islamist militants in Pakistan who have long sought to spark a war between Pakistan and India over the disputed Himalayan province of Kashmir. But the officials stressed that the investigation has barely gotten underway.
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"We're in the very early innings," said a U.S. counterterrorism official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "But now that the shooting is over, the Indians have a lot to work with." Key clues will probably come from the gunmen themselves, "both the living and the dead," he said.

India and Pakistan have found two wars over Kashmir, which both claimed after the 1947 partition of the subcontinent. Indian and Western intelligence officials have specifically cited Lashkar-i-Taiba, a Pakistan-based Islamist network founded to fight the Indian army in Kashmir.

On Friday, Pakistan reversed a decision to send its spy chief to aid India's investigation, saying it would send a lower-level official. But officials said they would help India identify and capture those behind the attacks.

"My heart bleeds for India," Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari told an Indian television channel. "As president of Pakistan, if any evidence points to anyone in my country," his government will take action, he said.

Nationalistic pride has surged across India even as officials struggled to deal with accusations of a delayed government response to the crisis and poor coordination, especially at a Jewish center in Mumbai where five people were killed, including a rabbi, from New York, and his wife.

At a meeting in New Delhi, officials said they would station special commando forces in cities to expedite crisis response and emphasized the need for better coordination between the forces and local police.

"Now we are thinking about how to reduce the delay and get into action and not lose the golden hour," M.L. Kumawat, special secretary of internal security, said at a news conference in New Delhi. "In the very near future, we will have such units at least in the big metropolitan cities. And in just a few hours, they will be able to mount an operation."

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh met with security agencies Saturday and has called a meeting of all the political parties Sunday to discuss an anti-terrorism plan.

In Washington, President Bush promised to support India in its recovery effort and investigation.

"We mourn those who lost their lives, including American citizens," he said. "We pray that the injured will recover. We pledge the full support of the United States as India investigates these attacks, brings the guilty to justice and sustains its democratic way of life."

Staff writer Joby Warrick in Washington and special correspondents Shaiq Hussain and Haq Nawaz Khan in Islamabad, Pakistan, contributed to this report.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 30 Nov 2008 07:09

I feel that way too.....The Mumbai police is all riled up, they will hunting for those pigs like a pack of wolves. If anybody has spent any reasonable time in Bombay, they would know that Mahim, Mohammed Ali rd, Bhendi Bazaar, Masjid bunder, Dharavi would be the first place to look for these scum!

vsudhir wrote:Something tells me more pigs and their local support network have been caught by now. The police department lost its men and would likely be highly un-amused.

The fact that there is no news of such 'arrests' made public yet is a good sign. So as not to get the HR/WKK/psec publicity wh0res all riled up.

Better to have the suspects tried by special tribunals away from PR glare. If guilty, appropriate interrogation would be in order to save more lives and pre-empt any second wave of attacks. It is the creation of such tribunals, redefinition of the standards of evidence etc that requires new legislation. Bipartisan cooperation in such an endeavor would be an amazing thing.

Also, dire need for a central investigative, forensic and prosecutorial agency that steps in and takes the matter outta the jurisdiction of local law enforcement. Simply so that no local MLA can be pressured to get on the phone and try to interfere with the process.

JMTPs etc.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Nov 2008 07:11

Nayak wrote:On a more non-serious issue, where is the imbecile Raj Thackeray ? What happened to his promise of protecting mumbaikars with his 'marathi-manoos' crusade ?

It was a Keralite/Bangalorean (Sandeep Unnikrishnan) and a Haryanvi (Gajendra Singh) who gave up their lives.

You mean a North Indian and a South Indian helped protect Mumbai?

Yoo Hoo Bal and Raj? Are you reading this?

Get your goons out now.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 30 Nov 2008 07:16

Bal and Raj don't the guts to even go beyond Thane to spew their rubbish!
All they can do is talk from their behinds while sitting in their comfy homes in "Dadar"

Where were the "Shiv Sainik's" all this time?
I am sure they were cowering in their Shakha's reading Saamna behind closed doors!

shiv wrote: Yoo Hoo Bal and Raj? Are you reading this?

Get your goons out now.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2008 07:17

no need to act SAJA-smart here. atleast he isnt in the pocket of islamists unlike some MH politicians who I need not name or comatose and gubo to 10 janpath muslim vote bank interests - you know who they are.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 30 Nov 2008 07:19

Anish, you got that right.. If anyone has spend anytime in mumbai, they would know & aspecially ATS guys where to look for scumbags who may be hiding in places like mahim, bhendi bazar

I have send my early years in Dadar. ATS guys would go after any piglet who may be hiding any place in mumbai. They know bombay like back of their palm. they would be looking for them in every gacchi if they have too.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Nov 2008 07:21

anishns wrote:Bal and Raj don't the guts to even go beyond Thane to spew their rubbish!
All they can do is talk from their behinds while sitting in their comfy homes in "Dadar"

My apologies to all for causing a digerssion.

My reply in the political roots thread

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 30 Nov 2008 07:24

I followed MSNBC (NBC) coverage. They initially reported 9 captured, 11 killed (of 40 total, 29 of whom were pakis, 9 Beedis, 2 Brits), rest still loose. That was on second day.

Wonder where they get the 40 number. But note about the "arrested militant" who squealed about the vermillion, etc. That could not have come from anyone other than a participant in this operation. So that makes at least two captured alive.

Which is not to say that both are STILL alive.

chalam · Post by **chalam** » 30 Nov 2008 07:25

anishns wrote:The guy on the phone with India TV was Shardulla right?

Bhailog

the name is not shaardula, that's a 16 anaa hindu name. it's sahadullah.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 30 Nov 2008 07:27

I understand your concerns and I do appreciate the fact that they are not in the pocket of islamists and they do uphold the interests of hindus in Bombay and Maharashtra as a whole. I just hope their party ideology was to unite hindus rather than further sub-divide as Marathi Manoos, South Indian or North Indian. That's very petty IMO

I actually was a supporter of BJP-Shiv Sena combine in the 1995 elections and they did bring about some progress in the city's infrastructure but, since then.....nothing much has happened. I don't want to say anything more about any other parties because of forum guidelines.

Singha wrote:no need to act SAJA-smart here. atleast he isnt in the pocket of islamists unlike some MH politicians who I need not name or comatose and gubo to 10 janpath muslim vote bank interests - you know who they are.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Nov 2008 07:31

narayanan wrote:
OK, how many pigs have been caught alive for debriefing?
...............
We need a clear list. There were three other names: Shaardula, Imran, and Imran-Something. All presumably pest-e-sha'eed.

shaardula is a BRFite. the one on phone was sad-ullah .