Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 30 Nov 2008 11:28

Yes im in Australia but does that mean i cant comment on terrorist attacks in India? All my extended family cousins, uncles, grandparents live in India and i visit there every few years. I consider myself an Indo-Australian.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 30 Nov 2008 11:29

I think one of the reasons why it was mentioned that there was a live terrorist in the bag was to inform the world of the Pakistani connection and to indicate that if Pakistan was serious about fighting terrorism, then they should cooperate and not fight shy from the fact that there was a Pakistani connection, even if not a Pakistani govt sponsored action.

The fact that Pakistan has done a U turn about their ISI Chief coming to India does to some extent indicate that there sure is not only a Pakistani connection, but also some sponsorship of the ISI involved.

The fact that after the meeting between the Pak President and the Pak Army Chief this U turn has happened, also indicates that the civilian govt is not in control of the country and instead is subordinate to the military, is sure damaging to the reputation of Pakistan as a democracy.

In other words, the credibility of the Pakistani civilian govt will not be taken too seriously in the international arena.

amar_ · Post by **amar_** » 30 Nov 2008 11:30

Well I think that this is an all out war. I see no reason why Indus water treaty cannot be scrapped or at least temporarily suspended...this would at least let Unkil\rest of the world think that we are serious and put more pressure on pakis.
If we do nothing as we did in the past, this would be just another attack in Mumbai that we talk about till the next attack happens.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 30 Nov 2008 11:33

* Ceasefire could be called off
* Troops along LOC to be multiplied and escalation of troops in Yellow Sea and IB. Informal orders being given right now.
* Train services could be suspended
* Composite dialogue will not happen
* Govt looking at the model of Parakram.
* Border could be mined.

Barkha Dutt on Breaking news on the emergency committee results.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 30 Nov 2008 11:34

* Aggressive patrolling by Navy.
* Service chiefs request a calibrated response.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 30 Nov 2008 11:34

Shivraj Patil has resigned.

Allah hu akbar.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 30 Nov 2008 11:34

Rahul you misread my post. Im not saying we should nuke pakistan rather the opposite. I was pointing out the fact that if we cut off water supplies to Pakistan it will lead to a war and an extended war will lead to a nuclear one. Therefore reducto- ad absurdem we should not cut of water supplies to pakistan. Get it?

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 30 Nov 2008 11:35

Vivek,

It's easy for you to propose nuclear war sitting >8,000 miles away from the blast zone. Unfortunately, people in India do not want to die en-mass if there are other avenues available for solving the Paki problem. What is needed is a Pakistani 'implosion' and not an 'explosion'. That requires brains, b@lls, and towering leadership on India's behalf which, sadly, we're lacking right now.

Wars are won before they're fought and the most wise win a war without ever fighting one. My dog could sign the paper authorizing nuclear war. That doesn't take any brains at all...

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 30 Nov 2008 11:36

Ok,

Maybe I misread your intentions. Apologies.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 30 Nov 2008 11:37

Sigh....Look at my previous post. Other members could tell you that i am DEAD against nuclear war.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 30 Nov 2008 11:37

Singhvi says that this is a collective responsibility of UPA/BJP/Citizens....

Bwahahaha, individual cannot be held responsible/accountable.

Oiseaules.

pran · Post by **pran** » 30 Nov 2008 11:38

No one is asking the question if this had been a nuclear attack , what would the GOI do ? Where is the chain of command ... sleeping SIESTA TIME ....hame dekhna hai,hum dekhte rahenge....

Sit there holding hands trying to estimate the public anger and have chai biskoot sessions on what to do...

I hope by now the GOI have the satellite images to mount a precision attack on known establishments of terrorism.
why is Muridke still on the map ?

amar_ · Post by **amar_** » 30 Nov 2008 11:43

Why do you think stopping water could result in war? We did that very recently...we can do it again ..only for a different reason this time and for longer period. How does Oprn parakram or any other ways of putting pressure affect the paki govt?
We have money and we spend it in mobilizing troops, they beg some money and spend it in mobilizing troops to the border. Would that result in War? Very unlikely. Does it stop another batch of mo fus coming into India and creating havoc? Very unlikely. The whole world has to support us in action and not just in words from camp freakin david.
Easiest and cheapest way to do it is by stopping water IMHO. I am not saying that we shouldnt be prepared for a war. All I am saying is hit them where it hurts and make them realize that we mean business.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 30 Nov 2008 11:45

Rahul i agree with you, an implosion of Pakistan serves India's interests, at least that way the extremists will be fighting themselves and leave India alone. India should do what it can to divide pakistan and ensure that the entity once known as Pakistan no longer exists and becomes Baluchistan, Pashutnistan, etc.

I have no doubt Pakistan will implode, the only question is how long will it take 5 years? 10 years? Maybe 20 years. The sooner the better for India.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 30 Nov 2008 11:47

Nayak wrote:Shivraj Patil has resigned.

You can have 1 of my houries for delivering the good news. Good riddance.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 30 Nov 2008 11:47

Rahul Shukla wrote:Vivek,

It's easy for you to propose nuclear war sitting >8,000 miles away from the blast zone. Unfortunately, people in India do not want to die en-mass if there are other avenues available for solving the Paki problem. What is needed is a Pakistani 'implosion' and not an 'explosion'. That requires brains, b@lls, and towering leadership on India's behalf which, sadly, we're lacking right now.

Wars are won before they're fought and the most wise win a war without ever fighting one. My dog could sign the paper authorizing nuclear war. That doesn't take any brains at all...

Any pro-active action might quickly escalate into all-out war. While I'm not for nuke exchange, the question is whether we as a nation ready to take the risk of war or wait for next terrorist attack which might include JDAM.

Other option is passive or covert action. I can't think of any passive actions which might force Pakis to mend ways. (Yes, we can close Samjuta Express etc, or non-result oriented steps)
For covert action, do we any resources in place, if not, what is the time-line to build the resources.

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Nov 2008 11:48

India: Al-Qaeda websites rejoice over Mumbai attacks

Mumbai, 27 Nov. (AKI) - Al-Qaeda websites on Thursday were swamped with messages from people who were celebrating the devastating Mumbai attacks which have left over 100 people dead and 281 injured. "Oh Allah, destroy the Hindus and do it in the worst of ways," was one of the comments that appeared on Islamist forums on the Internet immediately after the attacks.

"The battle that is underway in Mumbai is a battle for Allah between its servants and the infidels," said another message published on the al-Falluja forum.

Several Al-Qaeda sites also posted several pictures of the victims in Mumbai and provocative statements.

Some media reports are saying that a group calling itself Deccan Mujahideen has claimed responsibility for the coordinated attacks, but this has not yet been confirmed.

AKI-Adnkronos

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 30 Nov 2008 11:48

Amar we stopped the water to build a dam and were going to compensate them water lost as far as i can understand. Very different to stopping water to pressurize them to crack down on terrorists. If we stop water for an extended period of time Pakistan has two choices.

1) Starve

2) War

I have a feeling the theyll prefer the second one.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 30 Nov 2008 11:48

So the nalayak patil has resigned finally as Home minister. It will be remembered as the most ineffectual ministry for the last 4.5 years. Wonder whether he would have been removed if elections were not due in next 6 months?? But I guess that is OT for this forum.

There were talks of moving chidambaram to home ministry. Moving chidambaram will also satisfy SP as amar singh wanted him removed. I hope a capable person who can think independently, and understand the seriousness of the situation becomes the next HM, and being loyal to the Madam not being the only criterion.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 30 Nov 2008 11:51

I wish there were places where balls are sold, so far Pfizer has something if you have balls to get into action.

We at BRF went through the exercise of IWT, crossing yellow see to take out few know Terror Training camps, Send some Prithvis with calling cards on few routes of entry in J&K, Sigh

everytime our dear friend Sunil would come with answers like "we will then spiral into nuclear war etc etc' finally he even started a thread about giving up J&K.. so much for the Indian Mavericks.

the only way to be ahead TSPigs is a N guru used to say think like a Paki and act like one on them.

If I understand right Avram is suggesting exactly that course.

We cant efford to analyze to death of a billion people nation.

First give a punch and then lets play the game of Love...

As Yogi said couple of posts earlier wher is cold start, unless its just vapor ware
Dont tell me our Gernails are asking for one year to start over useless t-90s, abhay's, nirbhay's arjuns and pinaka's are good in garrages or papers.
But I am very skeptical anything will be done at all but act like a puppet on a chain, held to ransom by 1.5 nukes of TSP.

very sad very sad, India now is No Country for Old Men to rule if you ever dream of being regional power let alone super power.

Oh by the way where are kaw kaw raw raw boys and KS the Bhishma pitamaha are they busy writing some good opeds on restraint and Samjhauta?

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 30 Nov 2008 11:56

John dont be so disheartened when Pakistan Implodes as i have no doubt it will, then we can go in with the US and remove their nukes without a single one being fired. Im looking foward to that day.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 30 Nov 2008 11:59

One word only - timing. See, all jhapads (big or small) need to be timely. India could have acted (quickly) at sea against Pakistan and in the heat of the moment gotten away with it.

The day India stands up for itself and starts acting like a pissed off bully who's out for blood just because it's a fine monday morning and there was too much salt in the breakfast omlette, the rest of the world will fall in line and start supporting us.

The west needs to be forced to pick a side. Now!

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 30 Nov 2008 12:01

Barkha biatch talking another biatch N. Ram .......

N Ram doesn't want Jingoism, he wants us to talk with Zardari.

amar_ · Post by **amar_** » 30 Nov 2008 12:01

Vivek,
I dont think we are going to compensate for anything...at least not that I know of. Resuming water supply can be conditional. Without concrete measures, I do not think any thing is going to change. Opposition in pak land are furious abt sending their jack ass general and now they are even saying that without proof they wont send anybody. Not that we need them to help us in our investigation. We need them to close the training camps and I see no way to achieve this without the paki govt getting involved.
Tough action like a threat to close the water supply or shutting it down temporarily is going to wake up the world. If an open terror strike with ppl just walking arnd with AK-47s and shooting without second thoughts is not resulting in war, why would stopping water result in it?
I probably am looking at it with using a different lens ...could be that I am just so upset that I cant think straight. Hope someone who can think straight and is in power does something about it.

jmaxwell · Post by **jmaxwell** » 30 Nov 2008 12:01

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:Rahul i agree with you, an implosion of Pakistan serves India's interests, at least that way the extremists will be fighting themselves and leave India alone. India should do what it can to divide pakistan and ensure that the entity once known as Pakistan no longer exists and becomes Baluchistan, Pashutnistan, etc.

Division of porkistan is the best idea i have heard in this thread. We need to be using our economic superiority to our advantage.

Here are the baloch demanding independence from Pakistan:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=558_1226732045

This little snippet starring the pashtuni nationalists:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=96d_1214873156

A little "moral" support, in terms of money, training and explosives ofcourse = ), we can start using their own porki tactics against them.
Obvious concurrent step is building afghan's infrastructure.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 30 Nov 2008 12:02

Its good that the HM resigned, atleast shows theres atlest some accountability left in India's political system.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Nov 2008 12:02

Next to go has to be MMS. There is no doubt after Patil resigned. Thats the only honorable thing to do and not mumble speeches.

Whats stopping the rolling of Dawood network in Mumbai? If Pawar has to go he has to be rolled out too. Its that clear situation. Have to clean house first before taking other steps.

The West is trying to avoid taking aside for it knows that India is mightily roused and there is nothing the West can do. its only Indians who are stopping themselves. Its a clear case of TSP attack. Its not IM etc. Yes some of them helped but this is a clear case of a commando action by TSP irregulars.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Nov 2008 12:03

Admins - you got to allow me to abuse N Ram

he is talking to Barkha and says we have to avoid jingoism.

Can some passerby slap the guy silly?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Nov 2008 12:05

Surya, I allow you to take on N Ravan.

BTW if you find a police/NSG or firefighter buy him a beer and will pay you back in massaland.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 30 Nov 2008 12:07

amar_ wrote:...We need them to close the training camps and I see no way to achieve this without the paki govt getting involved.

Mr. Zardari and members of his Cabinet need written approval from GHQ-Pindi just to use to loo in the morning. They dont control anything in Pakistan so Paki Govt is irrelevant and merely a scapegoat for the ISI/Pak Army.

amar_ wrote:Tough action like a threat to close the water supply or shutting it down temporarily is going to wake up the world.

Except in case of an all-out war, it will spectacularly backfire and we will look like fools onlee.

amar_ wrote:If an open terror strike with ppl just walking arnd with AK-47s and shooting without second thoughts is not resulting in war, why would stopping water result in it?

Mumbai attacks are not sufficient for India to start a war. For Pakis, stopping water flow most definately is.

amar_ wrote:I probably am looking at it with using a different lens ...could be that I am just so upset that I cant think straight. Hope someone who can think straight and is in power does something about it.

Stick around... you'll be just fine.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Nov 2008 12:09

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:Its good that the HM resigned, atleast shows theres atlest some accountability left in India's political system.

No NO and NO !

there is NO accountability for the gandhi party led govt. If there was patil would have resigned couple of years back and MMS would have resigned after the 3 city bombings and at least let the investigative agencies focus on the real issue at hand.

with this tamasha in which SP has been scapegoated MMS and SG is hoping that this absolves them and the INC of any responsibility in the eyes of the people.

Even this won't have happened if the elections weren't round the corner.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Nov 2008 12:09

Rahul, Maybe we should let them start the hostilities like Mrs G let them in 1971!

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Nov 2008 12:11

Nayak wrote:Shivraj Eunuch Patil has resigned.

Allah hu akbar.

Shame it took so many innocents and brave hearts to die for this imbecile to resign. Sorry for the rant admins, but an calling an imbecile imbecile is not a crime.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 30 Nov 2008 12:14

ramana wrote:Rahul, Maybe we should let them start the hostilities like Mrs G let them in 1971!

Saa'r you are most wise and I am still a disciple onlee. Just to ensure I do not misunderstand what you're implying, please elaborate on your comment. Thanks.

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 30 Nov 2008 12:14

There were talks of moving chidambaram to home ministry. Moving chidambaram will also satisfy SP as amar singh wanted him removed. I hope a capable person who can think independently, and understand the seriousness of the situation becomes the next HM, and being loyal to the Madam not being the only criterion.

What other options does congress has. I see no one in cabinet of such caliber as you mentioned.
We need a HM who can think beyond poll politics. Nuke war is a risk, the leadership should be smart enough to plan strategy to not to go wrong again.
IMO, its time for retrospection. Give it time and wait for new leadership after election.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 30 Nov 2008 12:15

HM Patil Resigns as per TOI.
One idiot leaves, a new idiot will join in few days..The incompetence stays.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 Nov 2008 12:16

The first attempt to call the ISI chief to India and hand over the list of terrorists have failed. Pakistan stood firmly behind the idea of terrorism and terrorists. Now it's time to move to the next stage.

COLD START.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Nov 2008 12:17

Why does Barkha Dutt choke everytime she talks of Pakistan or Zardari ? I didn't take it seriously when members here reported about that earlier but it has gone on repeatedly and it cannot be just a coincidence.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Nov 2008 12:20

Did nalayak really quit or only offer to quit? Rascal might pull a stunt.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 30 Nov 2008 12:21

ramana wrote:Rahul, Maybe we should let them start the hostilities like Mrs G let them in 1971!

But, we need to help it happen