Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

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ajayv
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by ajayv »

Austin wrote:
ajayv wrote:hi there. Was wondering is it possible for a couple of BR members to visit Captain Amitendra Singh of the NSG at Bombay Hospital with a bouquet of flowers and a letter on behalf of all BR members lauding his daredevil acts of courage ? All opinions welcome. Thanx.
Yes good idea , we can do that , but we need to be sure if civic are allowed to meet them

Austin,

Your right. They may not allow civilians to meet him but i guess no harm in making an attempt. Least we could do is have the hospital staff deliver it to him.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Lalmohan »

10%i and groper gila monster have now demonstrated that they are not in charge (we knew that already)
pasha and kiyani are demonstrably in charge (silent coup!)
LET has never moved without taking orders from Korps Kammandus
I wonder if the great unwashed awam in Pakistan is rejoicing in the streets whilst RAPE's get into undie knotted palpitations to stave off the blows?

by creating a war like situation (and yes, the amphbious assault on Mumbai is already an act of war) - the pakistani establishment (read military and jehadis) have said they are willing to be at war...

it conveniently diverts attention away from afghanistan and bajaur - PA doesn't have to kill its birathers anymore - Unkil can be palmed off for a little longer, they have bought some more time... but what is next?

al-Q/talibains get a breather in Afghanistan, and perhaps prepare for an Obama welcoming party with a spectacular in the US? Anyone who looks at the Mumbai attack in isolation from the bigger War on Terror and tries to play == is a total moron

I am now in no doubt that recent political issues in India related to terror and Islamic vote bank justified actions are very definitely part of this 'conspiracy'

and lets not forget that China also benefits here

so, if these people are willing to be at war... surely they have announced that they are legitimate targets?

I think the least we can do is bomb the camps and destroy their naval infrastructure- they will complain but it won't be enough to go redline
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by vishal »

Lalmohan wrote:I think the least we can do is bomb the camps and destroy their naval infrastructure- they will complain but it won't be enough to go redline
The 'redline' bogeyman is something that keeps the likes of Arundhati Roy & Co. in business. The rulers of the Land of the Pure might be a lot of things but I am not sure they would be willing to risk total annihilation unless our intent is to burn Pakistan to the ground and carve it up. They won't go nuclear over their navy being put out of commission and PGM's falling on piglet camps. Just my .02.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Vivek_A »

This will come in handy when haqqani tries to weasel his way out of tough questions.


ADMINS The link to the original article should be stickied to every TSP thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/opini ... .html?_r=1

But Leach doesn’t want to discuss that rationale — even though it’s not hard to find. Ten minutes of Googling will bring you to a fine article, “The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups,” from the April 2005 issue of Current Trends in Islamist Ideology. It’s by the respected journalist and diplomat Husain Haqqani, who, as it happens, is now Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States.

Lashkar-e-Taiba, Haqqani explains, is a jihadi group of Wahhabi persuasion, “backed by Saudi money and protected by Pakistani intelligence services.” He notes that “Lashkar-e-Taiba has adopted a maximalist agenda for global jihad.” Indeed, the political arm of the group has conveniently published a pamphlet, “Why Are We Waging Jihad?,” that lays out all kinds of reasons why the United States, Israel and India are “existential enemies of Islam.”
adityaS
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by adityaS »

If this has come up before in this thread, I apologise, but could someone shed some light on this article in atimes.

Chanakya writes opinion piece only, but it is still interesting.
Two well-known Indophile political parties, the Muttahida Qaumi Movement, a coalition partner in the government comprising people who migrated to Pakistan after the partition of British India in 1947, and the Awami National Party, another coalition partner in the government and a Pashtun sub-nationalist political party, clashed within 24 hours of the Mumbai attacks. Fifteen people have been killed to date and the city is closed, like Mumbai was after the November 26 attacks.
Edit: MQM is friend of our country now :-?
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Lalmohan »

adityaS wrote:If this has come up before in this thread, I apologise, but could someone shed some light on this article in atimes.
setting up plausible deniability - 'this was all rogue elements of the ISI onlee...'; otherwise remarkably prescient

all the more reason to destroy PN ships and facilities soonest
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by bart »

Nitesh wrote:Security forces to get two dedicated planes
December 01, 2008 16:03 IST

Faced with criticism that an aircraft was not available to quickly ferry the National Security Guards (NSG) to terror-hit Mumbai, the government has decided to hasten the procurement of two planes for dedicated use by the central paramilitary forces, including the NSG.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/01m ... forces.htm
Ideally they should have an SF type C-130J on standby for them, and perhaps a faster jet as well. They should also have some dedicated helicopters at their proposed hub bases.

I wonder what will happen if an airport or runway gets taken over by terrorists...What use will the planes be if they cannot land or get blown up by RPG the moment they land.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by SureshP »

Zardari appeals India not to punish Pakistan
Updated at: 1700 PST, Monday, December 01, 2008
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari, made an urgent appeal to India yesterday not to punish his country for the terror unleashed on Mumbai last week, as Indian officials blamed a Pakistani militant group for the three-day rampage.

As the government in New Delhi faced mounting domestic pressure to respond forcefully to the attacks, Mr Zardari urged Manmohan Singh, India's prime minister, to resist striking out at his government should investigations show that Pakistani militant groups were responsible.

His appeal came as tensions rose between the two countries. A day after the security forces finally regained control of Mumbai, Indian officials blamed Lashkar-i-tayyaba, a prominent militant group linked to previous attacks against India. Its name translates as Army of the Pure.

Speaking to the Financial Times, President Zardari warned that provocation by rogue "non-state actors" posed the danger of a return to waSpeaking to the Financial Times, President Zardari warned that provocation by rogue "non-state actors" posed the danger of a return to war between the nuclear-armed neighbours.r between the nuclear-armed neighbours.

"Even if the militants are linked to Lashkar-i-tayyaba, who do you think we are fighting?" asked Mr Zardari, whose country is battling al-Qaeda and Taliban militants on its border with Afghanistan.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=61426


My heart goes out to Zardari and India must quickly assure the Zardari govt that India has no wish to punish his country for the actions of these non-state actors which, as he says, poses a danger to both Pakistan and India. Assure him that we only wish to take out the LET and other terror camps and eliminate the threat to both our democratic countries. The MKIs are being fuelled the Jdams are being checked as we speak and we are there to aid his goverment in removing this threat to the region. :)
adityaS
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by adityaS »

Lalmohan wrote: setting up plausible deniability - 'this was all rogue elements of the ISI onlee...'; otherwise remarkably prescient

all the more reason to destroy PN ships and facilities soonest
But Lalmohanji, where do they get details from? I mean, there are things like this that I am sure nobody will tell them.
Zakiur and the ISI's forward section in Karachi, completely disconnected from the top brass, approved the plan under which more than 10 men took Mumbai hostage for nearly three days and successfully established a reign of terror.
Regardless about talking to the Ka(y)ani or not, it is still the responsibility of their armed piglet forces, right?
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Lalmohan »

adityaS wrote: Regardless about talking to the Ka(y)ani or not, it is still the responsibility of their armed piglet forces, right?
fauji-piglet duality is a well established paradigm, like wave-particle duality, but as long as its 'rogue elements in the shadowy ISI', it gives them more time and options
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by enqyoob »

Hi P_Saggu,
thanks for finding that image from wiki. well whether its not a real picture of a fully established camp or not, its still a camp.


Lashkar-e-Toiba's major facility is at Muridke(?) near Lahore, which is a fairly fertile, green place. What is shown in this "image" is a barren place, WITH CRATERS LIKE ON THE MOON.

I think this is 60% probability a bombed-out tribal village in Afghanistan, not a "yet not completed" camp?
Or it's someone who took pictures looking down at wet sand on the beach where s(he) had scrawled a couple of lines, and the "craters" are crab-holes. Any good images (or photos) of Muridke facility around, please? Plus of the Habib Bank, Lahore, and the HQ of the Rashid Trust?
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by enqyoob »

Admin note: There is another thread called "Indian Response to Terrorism". Please direct all posts on that topic there, so that this thread is about the thread topics, not chai-biscoot speculation on what India is not going to do.

If there IS news of actual Indian action (the blue color here is me holding my breath) by all means pls post here, but it's easy to see that if the Strategic Triad and Year 2030 Urban Counter Terrorism Force discussions are allowed to continue here, no one will be able to find the useful stuff that is coming out about the actual situation.

I tried moving the OT posts to the other thread some 3 or 4 different times over the weekend, and gave plenty of requests to postors to observe the difference between the two threads. But moving posts takes a very long time, much longer than re-typing the content of most of those posts. -n


P.S. Did I see someone declare that "narayanan" was not a human name? :((
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Singha »

tv claims 3 IL-76 type planes and a 500 increase in NSG strength.

my question is will these be forever sitting on the ground in Dilli or be tasked as part of IAFs routine transport sqds but such that one is always
on the ground in dilli 24x7 even if the other two are on sorties.

C-130J is too slow for a del-maa or del-blr sector. and its small.

and going by Unkil's machinations will take forever to arrive.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Singha »

continuing the paper dressing: sources tell IBN that Home Secy will be
removed.

fig leafs to deflect and contain the public anger.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Lalmohan »

lets remember that NSG requires a bunch of equipment to be transported also - C3IS gear with supporting kit, special weapons, protection materials - they do need dedicated heavy lift. it also explains why time is taken for deployment (answering a previous query on this thread about why so long?)

the time has come for satellite NSG units in the metros at the very least. I don't think we should sidetrack the MARCO's to this role - they will have enough stop and search in the seas to do in the years to come
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Singha »

Marcos is our "Vympel/SBS" unit. they should really remain clear of hostage rescue and continue with offensive CT/war ops as usual.
Last edited by Singha on 01 Dec 2008 19:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by R Vaidya »

This is about the coverage of the terror attack from another site. Except for his gripe on Human rights some of the other points are valid.

http://www.openspace.org.in/node/808
Hotel Taj : icon of whose India ? by Gnani Sankaran- Tamil writer, Chennai.

Watching at least four English news channels surfing from one another during the last 60 hours of terror strike made me feel a terror of another kind. The terror of assaulting one`s mind and sensitivity with cameras, sound bites and non-stop blabbers. All these channels have been trying to manufacture my consent for a big lie called - Hotel Taj the icon of India.
Whose India, Whose Icon ?
It is a matter of great shame that these channels simply did not bother about the other icon that faced the first attack from terrorists - the Chatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST) railway station. CST is the true icon of Mumbai. It is through this railway station hundreds of Indians from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Rajasthan, West Bengal and Tamilnadu have poured into Mumbai over the years, transforming themselves into Mumbaikars and built the Mumbai of today along with the Marathis and Kolis
But the channels would not recognise this. Nor would they recognise the thirty odd dead bodies strewn all over the platform of CST. No Barkha dutt went there to tell us who they were. But she was at Taj to show us the damaged furniture and reception lobby braving the guards. And the TV cameras did not go to the government run JJ hospital to find out who those 26 unidentified bodies were. Instead they were again invading the battered Taj to try in vain for a scoop shot of the dead bodies of the page 3 celebrities.
In all probability, the unidentified bodies could be those of workers from Bihar and Uttar Pradesh migrating to Mumbai, arriving by train at CST without cell phones and pan cards to identify them. Even after 60 hours after the CST massacre, no channel has bothered to cover in detail what transpired there.

The channels conveniently failed to acknowledge that the Aam Aadmis of India surviving in Mumbai were not affected by Taj, Oberoi and Trident closing down for a couple of weeks or months. What mattered to them was the stoppage of BEST buses and suburban trains even for one hour. But the channels were not covering that aspect of the terror attack. Such information at best merited a scroll line, while the cameras have to be dedicated for real time thriller unfolding at Taj or Nariman bhavan.

The so called justification for the hype the channels built around heritage site Taj falling down (CST is also a heritage site), is that Hotel Taj is where the rich and the powerful of India and the globe congregate. It is a symbol or icon of power of money and politics, not India. It is the icon of the financiers and swindlers of India. The Mumbai and India were built by the Aam Aadmis who passed through CST and Taj was the oasis of peace and privacy for those who wielded power over these mass of labouring classes. Leopold club and Taj were the haunts of rich spoilt kids who would drive their vehicles over sleeping Aam Aadmis on the pavement, the Mafiosi of Mumbai forever financing the glitterati of Bollywood (and also the terrorists) , Political brokers and industrialists.
It is precisely because Taj is the icon of power and not people, that the terrorists chose to strike.
The terrorists have understood after several efforts that the Aam Aadmi will never break down even if you bomb her markets and trains. He/she was resilient because that is the only way he/she can even survive.
Resilience was another word that annoyed the pundits of news channels and their patrons this time. What resilience, enough is enough, said Pranoy Roy`s channel on the left side of the channel spectrum. Same sentiments were echoed by Arnab Goswami representing the right wing of the broadcast media whose time is now. Can Rajdeep be far behind in this game of one upmanship over TRPs ? They all attacked resilience this time. They wanted firm action from the government in tackling terror.
The same channels celebrated resilience when bombs went off in trains and markets killing and maiming the Aam Aadmis. The resilience of the ordinary worker suited the rich business class of Mumbai since work or manufacture or film shooting did not stop. When it came to them, the rich shamelessly exhibited their lack of nerves and refused to be resilient themselves. They cry for government intervention now to protect their private spas and swimming pools and bars and restaurants, similar to the way in which Citibank, General Motors and the ilk cry for government money when their coffers are emptied by their own ideologies.
The terrorists have learnt that the ordinary Indian is unperturbed by terror. For one whose daily existence itself is a terror of government sponsored inflation and market sponsored exclusion, pain is something he has learnt to live with. The rich of Mumbai and India Inc are facing the pain for the first time and learning about it just as the middle classes of India learnt about violation of human rights only during emergency, a cool 28 years after independence.
And human rights were another favourite issue for the channels to whip at times of terrorism.
Arnab Goswami in an animated voice wondered where were those champions of human rights now, not to be seen applauding the brave and selfless police officers who gave up their life in fighting terorism. Well, the counter question would be where were you when such officers were violating the human rights of Aam Aadmis. Has there ever been any 24 hour non stop coverage of violence against dalits and adivasis of this country?

This definitely was not the time to manufacture consent for the extra legal and third degree methods of interrogation of police and army but Arnabs don`t miss a single opportunity to serve their class masters, this time the jingoistic patriotism came in handy to whitewash the entire uniformed services.

The sacrifice of the commandos or the police officers who went downdying at the hands of ruthless terrorists is no doubt heart rending but in vain in a situation which needed not just bran but also brain. Israel has a point when it says the operations were misplanned resulting in the death of its nationals here. Khakares and Salaskars would not be dead if they did not commit the mistake of traveling by the same vehicle. It is a basic lesson in management that the top brass should never t ravel together in crisis.

The terrorists, if only they had watched the channels, would have laughed their hearts out when the Chief of the Marine commandos, an elite force, masking his face so unprofessionally in a see-through cloth, told the media that the commandos had no idea about the structure of the Hotel Taj which they were trying to liberate. But the terrorists knew the place thoroughly, he acknowledged.

Is it so difficult to obtain a ground plan of Hotel Taj and discuss operation strategy thoroughly for at least one hour before entering? This is something even an event manager would first ask for, if he had to fix 25 audio systems and 50 CCtvs for a cultural event in a hotel. Would not Ratan Tata have provided a plan of his ancestral hotel to the commandos within one hour considering the mighty apparatus at his and government`s disposal? Are satelite pictures only available for terrorists and not the government agencies ? In an operation known to consume time, one more hour for preparation would have only improved the efficiency of execution.

Sacrifices become doubly tragic in unprofessional circumstances. But the Aam Aadmis always believe that terror-shooters do better planning than terrorists. And the gullible media in a jingoistic mood would not raise any question about any of these issues. They after all have their favourite whipping boy - the politician the eternal entertainer for the non-voting rich classes of India.

Arnabs and Rajdeeps would wax eloquent on Manmohan Singh and Advani visiting Mumbai separately and not together showing solidarity even at this hour of national crisis. What a farce? Why can`t these channels pool together all their camera crew and reporters at this time of national calamity and share the sound and visual bites which could mean a wider and deeper coverage of events with such a huge human resource to command? Why should Arnab and Rajdeep and Barkha keep harping every five minutes that this piece of information was exclusive to their channel, at the time of such a national crisis? Is this the time to promote the channel? If that is valid, the politician promoting his own political constituency is equally valid. And the duty of the politican is to do politics, his politics. It is for the people to evaluate that politics.

And terrorism is not above politics. It is politics by other means.

To come to grips with it and to eventually eliminate it, the practice of politics by proper means needs constant fine tuning and improvement. Decrying all politics and politicians, only helps terrorists and dictators who are the two sides of the same coin. And the rich and powerful always prefer terrorists and dictators to do business with.
Those caught in this crossfire are always the Aam Aadmis whose deaths are not even mourned - the taxi driver who lost the entire family at CST firing, the numerous waiters and stewards who lost their lives working in Taj for a monthly salary that would be one time bill for their masters.
Postscript: In a fit of anger and depression, I sent a message to allthe channels, 30 hours through the coverage. After all they have been constantly asking the viewers to message them for anything and everything. My message read: I send this with lots of pain. All channels, including yours, must apologise for not covering the victims of CST massacre, the real mumbaikars and aam aadmis of India. Your obsession with five star elite is disgusting. Learn from the print media please. No channel bothered. Only srinivasan Jain replied: you are right. We are trying to redress balance today. Well, nothing happened till the time of writing this 66 hours after
___________

Rvaidya
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Philip »

Where are the missing pigs? Why is the GOI silent on this issue,calling the operation "closed"? Inte; reports also said that the Pakis were training women also at the terror training camps.

"A total of 15 life jackets were found when the dinghies were recovered."

"Eyewitnesses have also said that the only survivor of the assault on three luxury hotels, a café, railway station and other public venues was accompanied by a woman in an all-concealing hijab while he shopped for supplies before shooting started."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-run.html

Mumbai attacks: more terrorists 'on the run'
Thirteen terrorists believed to have been involved in the Mumbai (formerly Bombay) attacks last week were feared to be on the run on Monday, even as the city returned to life with shops raising the shutters and traffic clogging the streets.

Damien McElroy in Mumbai
Last Updated: 12:14PM GMT 01 Dec 2008

Officials in Mumbai have failed to account for the movement of the terrorists believed to have been part of the operation to attack multiple high profile targets in the commercial capital.

Diplomats said the primary focus of the terrorists is likely to shift outside the city. The Intelligence Bureau was reported to have circulated a warning that four prominent targets in Delhi were under imminent threat from the Deccan Mujahideen, including Indira Ghandi International Airport and the city's main railway.

An intercepted email from the group also revealed plans to use auto-rickshaws in a fast-moving blitz on the city. Police have stepped up spot checks on Delhi's tens of thousands of three-wheeled taxis.

Eight men that were said to have paved the way for last week's attacks by infiltrating Mumbai, taking a flat and carrying out reconnaissance missions in the targeted hotels have not been traced.

Officials also revealed that five more men, in addition to the 10 who carried out the attacks, are suspected to have arrived on the fast dinghies used by the attackers. A total of 15 life jackets were found when the dinghies were recovered.

Eyewitnesses have also said that the only survivor of the assault on three luxury hotels, a café, railway station and other public venues was accompanied by a woman in an all-concealing hijab while he shopped for supplies before shooting started.

The Bombay Stock Exchange recorded marginal falls on the first business day since the attacks began. Schools and government institutions reopened.

The Taj Mahal Palace Hotel was handed back to its owners after security forces determined all explosives had been removed from the building. But its reopening is years away.

"With immediate effect, the building has being placed under as tight a seal as possible until a full risk assessment has been completed," a statement from the owners said. "Access to the hotel buildings is only being given to a limited number of specialist personnel. This is due to the need to remove all potential sources of risk arising from the attack."

*No better example of heroic devotion to duty anywhere than that of Mr.Kang,the Taj GM.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 42533.html

The tragic story capturing the Indian public's imagination

Andrew Buncombe in Mumbai
Sunday, 30 November 2008

They gently pressed, they shuffled and squeezed, but there was never going to be enough room inside the ageing crematorium. Not for the numbers of people who wanted pay their last respects to Niti Kang and her two sons.

The wife and children of Karambir Singh Kang, general manager of Mumbai's Taj Mahal hotel died in their suite on the 6th floor of the building, either burned to death or asphyxiated by smoke as fire-fighters struggled to reach them. Having barricaded their door against the gunmen she believed were in the adjoining rooms, Mrs Kang had then locked herself in the bathroom with her sons. When commandos finally broke down the doors, the three of them were found together - the mother cradling one son, the other lying on the floor beside her.

"She was an excellent mother, daughter, wife and friend," said Bandana Modi, a life-long friend of Mrs Kang, who first met her while they were both schoolchildren. "She was very nice, very charismatic. She was a very friendly person. She was also a very good dancer and singer."

In recent days the crematoriums and burial grounds of Mumbai have been working non-stop, overloaded with the task of dealing with the dead of last week's terror attacks. The newspapers have likewise been filled with memorial notices, and messages of sympathy; scores of private tragedies linked by circumstance and collective grief.

Of all these, none captured the public imagination more than the death of Mrs Kang and her sons, Uday, 13, and five-year-old Samar. As they waited anxiously in their room - unable to move - Mr Kang worked ceaselessly to try and rescue other people trapped in the hotel. He kept speaking with his wife by mobile phone. In their last conversation she had apparently told him they were hiding in the bathroom as the flames approached.

Yet even after he learned of the death of his wife and children, the hotelier, originally from the Punjab, stayed at his post. On Saturday morning, when the final gunman holed-up in the landmark hotel was killed by commandos, Mr Kang was still working. Reports said that the hotel's owner, the industrialist Ratan Tata, had to personally tell him to go home and be with his relatives.

Mr Kang remained just as stoic and unbending yesterday. Surrounded with relatives and Taj employees, he stood as special Sikh prayers were read and priests carried out a "puja" or ceremony in front of the three coffins containing the remains of his wife and children. They were then taken into an adjoining room and lifted into the ovens.

Those who had come to say farewell included personal friends, colleagues from work as well as other Taj employees who were there out of respect. Some teachers from Uday's school had also come, wiping away their tears. "He was a very good student. He was due to take his exams tomorrow," said one of them. Another of the woman appeared unable to make sense of what had happened. "We are women, we are educated women. Yet men came and did this. How do you stop this," she said.

Another man, who described himself as a close family friend, also shook his head in disbelief. "This is very hard."

Typically enough Mr Kang was among the last to leave. He was driven away from the crematorium in a car provided by the hotel. He sat in the front seat, his face unflinching.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by John Snow »

Johaan is the Sakuni mama of this forum.

He is eloquent, knowledgeble enough to twist and spin, but always watch his foot step, they are mostly no balls!

Master psy ops man, Keep it up Johaan :mrgreen:

************
Our defesive posture is reducing our Marcos, NSG, and other specialized units into policing and law & Order enforcers.
While the attacks on Mumbai are clearly a undeclared war, we are fighting on our territory instead of enemy turf.

We should have strolled accross the LOC and casually taken off couple of Cols and Brigadiers and calim rouge elements of the commondos had live practice to hone their skills.


Now you can see how much we would be paralized if a nuke attack happens, as hordes of Rice, cotton, al bin povel, browns maarkels, lootins would persuade us not to retaliate.
Last edited by John Snow on 01 Dec 2008 19:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by shiv »

R Vaidya wrote:This is about the coverage of the terror attack from another site. Except for his gripe on Human rights some of the other points are valid.

http://www.openspace.org.in/node/808
Hotel Taj : icon of whose India ? by Gnani Sankaran- Tamil writer, Chennai.
This is an interesting take - but he is wrong on two counts.

The politicians who took the resilience of Mumbai for granted when trains and markets were bombed obviously are not moved by all that.

However, they certainly blinked after this.

The man is angry at the TV channels - but he forgets that the only time the politicians reacted was after the parliament attack and after this one. That means that only these attacks hurt the politicians. That does not reflect on the TV channels. It reflects on the politicians.

How many politicians visited the site of riots in Orissa or Nandigram when they were occurring. The man rants about the media not covering these events, but the media covered them better than the politicians.

The media certainly may belong to the chatterati classes - but absolving the polity on that excuse is mistake.

He gets 5 on 10 for pointing out a problem with the media that we have known for years but loses 5 marks for missing he point that the aam aadmi, media and rich kids can do nothing unless the politicians will it. It appears that even the majority of terrorist strikes do not move the politicians. This one did. Credit goes to the media for that - unles syou want to give credit to the terrorists for hitting the right target.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by p_saggu »

N^3,
I've checked every inch of Muridke, There is no training camp there. There are a lot of piglet slums all around and one BIG ground bang in the middle, they call the Military Training ground. This is supposed to be the Head offices of LET. But there is also I beleive news that they were forced to shift out of this place after Mushy's tushy was set on fire after the Parliament attacks with the US declaring LET Haraam. They Shifted to Muzaffarabad in POK.

This picture of an alleged camp I posted is close to a place called Chilas in POK (There is a airfield in Chilas) right next to Pak-POK border. The google link is visible below the pic. This is what a typical terrorist training camp would be like except that there are no goat sheds and goats around for Senior maulanars to ahem - impart dutiful education.
But mostly a camp would be just this - a few mud hamlets and plenty of open ground around.
Last edited by p_saggu on 01 Dec 2008 19:41, edited 1 time in total.
HariC
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by HariC »

Video of the Girlie Pig being beaten by mumbaiwalas

Is it any wonder that guy screamed ' i wanna live'...
Lalmohan
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Lalmohan »

p_saggu - are you sure that is chitral? i believed chitral to be much greener and hillier. this is more like the afghanistan desert - where many al-q camps were famously documented...
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by AlbertPinto »

Rahul M wrote:
asprinzl wrote:Honestly, I dont think Israel has the capablity to launch wide scale sabotage operation in Pak_Is-Satan. I would like to think that India probably has more sleeper cells and other assets in there or at least have the ability to acquire such assets much better than Israel could mostly because of cultural/linguistic similarity. Thus looking for Israel to take the lead in someways would be a non-starter. I also don't think Israel is in any position to carry out joint aerial strikes either. America would shoot that down the moment NSC gets hold of any such whispers...........
Avram, that we can do.

once the politicians give the go-ahead. Can Israel convince THEM ?
Hmmmm... can they ??? Here is one from the archives:
http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullst ... wsid=41747
p_saggu
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by p_saggu »

Hey I'm sorry this is close to a place called chilas. Bang on the Indus river.

Image

The most interesting thing is type lashkar e toiba on wikimapia and you will get a link to this place.
Interestingly there is also a link there which proclaims "Osama" :) take it for what it is worth... :rotfl:
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by p_saggu »

NEWS FLASH : Suspicious bag found in S Delhi, bomb disposal squad on the spot.
It is near Defence Colony...

Someone mentioned that there has been a blast there too. Not confirmed yet.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Kersi D »

Were the terrorist getting up-to-date information thru cell-phones / staphones or otherwise ? Could the IN have used our Ajanta / Ellora systems and jammed their comms ? They could have a pysco dis advantages if they are not in contact with their biradars or their bosses ?
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Lalmohan »

Kersi D wrote:Were the terrorist getting up-to-date information thru cell-phones / staphones or otherwise ? Could the IN have used our Ajanta / Ellora systems and jammed their comms ? They could have a pysco dis advantages if they are not in contact with their biradars or their bosses ?
why jam when you can trace? you want to know what they're talking about and where they are
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by John Snow »

Ok let us put this to rest, If Israel is so capable, why did not they take on TSP nuke proliferation to Iran, Libya etc etc.

Israel is smart enough to know its limitations but always projects an image that it can reach anywhere if its interests are threatened.

Which our man Johaan always ready sing in chorus...
************
Folks think calmly

the reminants of coldwar sympathisers in SD and CIA are waging a last ditch effort to divert attention of Obama from acting in TSP.

The flash point has been effectively shifted to Sub continent. Remember the song of Obama , Kashmir needs help etc Bull shit.

All this can be seen in if a timeline of events can be drawn.....
Last edited by John Snow on 01 Dec 2008 20:07, edited 1 time in total.
Philip
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Philip »

Grim story of how the Jewish folk were tortured by the pigs,just like the Nazis in WW2 and how the innocent were mercilessly butchered.

First,a few thoughts.When such an event occurs,the security forces should just take over civilian aircraft if no military aircraft are available.In '71,IC passenger jest were used to transport troops.The British have a system whereby merchant shipping are called up in a crisis (STUFT,ships taken up from trade),used in the Falklands war,where even the QE-2 was used as a troop transport.It is appaling to learn that the NSG commandos had to wait for "large" aircraft,when they could've just taken the first passenger jets into Bombay on an emergency basis.

Secondly,the Taj IS an Indian icon.It was built by Jamshedji Tata as an act of defiance when he was refused entry into the Watson Hotel,meant only for whites.Every Indian is proud of his great act of nationalism.,to show that an Indian could outdo any foreigner.The story of Tata Steel ( and the US magnate who said he would eat every pound of steel that Tata made) must also be borne in mind at this time.Ratan tata is doing the same today with the Nano.Similarly,if the Taj was a nationalist act of defiance during the British Raj (and why can't we be proud of a hotel whose service and quality is the toast and talk of the world as a symbol of excellence? Are we to remain at the "dhaba level" in our growth and progress in the hospitality industry?),so also is Man Singh Oberoi's Oberoi Hotel and Towers ,as s symbol of modern independent India.Read Bachi Karkaria's book on him,"Dare to Dream".It is another great story like that of Mittal and Dhirubhai Ambanai.Mr.Oberoi rose from the level of a humble clerk to later own the hotel he worked in,bought the Grand in Calcutta in a great gamble,as it was declared a health hazard,and built the Oberoi in Delhi with US partners,who tormented him.He later paid back every dollar and then kicked the friangs off the board,vowing to always own his hotels in future.The Oberoi Group has built some of the world's most fabulous hotels,mirroring India's great ancient architectural heritage.Any book on the world's greatest hotels will find the Taj and Oberoi hotels and their famous rstaurants in it.These hotels employ a vast amount of Indians,earn enormous goodwill for India and are a shining example of what Abdul Kalam writes about in his book India 2020.The magnificient manner in which the hoitel staff saved the lives of so many guests at their own risk is simply heroic.Read my post about GM Kang of the Taj.Criticism of these hotels is simly unjust and demeaning.Both groups also run budget hotels like the Taj's "Ginger" hotels.Please guys,do not unfairly criticise these two hotels and their management just because they serve the well-heeled.They keep many simple families with food on the table and allow them to educate their children.Do we all not wish a better future for every Indian?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... risis.html

Mumbai attacks: Jews tortured before executed during hostage crisis
Israeli hostages killed by Islamic terrorists during the attacks on Mumbai (formerly Bombay) were tortured by their captors before they were bound together and summarily executed, according to officials in both countries.

By Damien McElroy in Bombay
Last Updated: 2:18PM GMT 01 Dec 2008

Jewish victims made up a disproportionate number of the foreigners killed after 10 Muslim fanatics stormed a series of sites in the Indian financial capital.

Members of the beleaguered Jewish community in Mumbai gathered at a crumbling synagogue for a memorial for Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and his wife Rivka, who ran the cultural centre targeted by the Deccan Mujahideen.

The couple's son, Moshe survived after his nanny, Sandra Samuel escaped with him in her arms 10 hours after the hostage incident started. The child cried "Ima" and "Dada," or mummy and daddy, as the service began.

Mosche's grandparents have arrived from Israel to take the orphaned boy home and there is intense pressure to grant Miss Samuel a visa by declaring her righteous among the gentiles.

Two countries have posted officials at the JJ Hospital morgue but there are at least twice as many Israeli disaster specialists as British consuls representing the former colonial power.

Israeli officials confirmed six Jews were dead but the figure is likely to rise to eight. The total number of foreigners killed in the attacks stands at 22.

A forensic team arrived on a specially chartered flight on Sunday night. "There are still a few yet to be identified – not a lot, under five – and this is why we need the forensic team," an Israeli diplomat said. "And there are two or three Israelis unaccounted for and we have a couple of bodies that could be them."

Doctors expressed horror at the condition of the bodies recovered from the Nariman Building, which housed the Orthodox Chabad-Lubavitch retreat.

"I have seen so many dead bodies in my life, and was traumatised," a mortician said. "It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood."

The group that stormed Bombay's most famous institutions displayed unrestrained brutality throughout the mission. The captain of a fishing trawler hijacked by the group in Arabian Sea was found with his throat cut.

Police said 17 victims were pushed against a wall in the corridor of the Oberoi hotel and executed in a line.

One man who served a glass of water to a terrorist at Bombay's main railway station was shot in the forehead.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by kit »

Is there a general mobilisation of the armed and missile forces from Indias side ? Nothing much in the general media though.

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5746
Indian air and missile forces on war footing, Pakistani armored units diverted from Afghan border

Debka is saying that it has already started and a very large american naval force of
1. the USS John C. Stennis, which carries 80 fighter-bombers and 3,200 sailors and airmen and leads a strike group..
This carrier joins two already there, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, which patrols the northern Arabian Sea, part of whose strike group cruises opposite Iran's southern coast; and the USS Iwo Jima, which carries a large marine contingent on board.
2. New to these waters, according to DEBKAfile's military sources, is the Destroyer Squadron 50/CTF 55, which has two task forces: Patrol Forces Southwest Asia (PATFORSWA) for strikes against warships and the rapid deployment of marines to flashpoint arenas; and Mine Countermeasures Division 31, which stands ready to prevent New Delhi or Islamabad from mining the Arabian Sea routes connecting their ports. Those routes are vital waterways for US marine traffic supporting the war in Afghanistan.
3. To manage this armada, the command and control vessel, USS Mount Whitney, has been brought over from the Mediterranean.
4. Four nuclear submarines.

well that is now literally piled up in the Arabian sea to

deter the Indians ?
or the pakistanis ?
or to use the excuse to hit Iran !
Last edited by kit on 01 Dec 2008 20:13, edited 1 time in total.
fanne
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by fanne »

http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 2&Itemid=1

Rahul in party mood soon after Mumbai crisis
Mail Today Bureau
New Delhi, December 1, 2008
Comment Print Email A A A Share Facebook! Digg it! Newsvine! Reddit! Del.icio.us! Technorati! StumbleUpon! RSS Feed
CloseIndia Today expert view on Rahul in party mood soon after Mumbai crisisEven before the tears of Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan’s mother could dry up, Congress general secretary and heir apparent Rahul Gandhi went partying with his pals at a farmhouse on Delhi’s outskirts.

The Prince partied hard, till 5 in the morning, on Sunday at the ‘sangeet’ for the forthcoming wedding of Samir Sharma, his childhood friend. They were at a sprawling farmhouse at Radhey Mohan Chowk, the haven of people who lead charmed lives beyond Chhatarpur.

Just a day earlier, his sister Priyanka Vadra had caused a flutter by saying the late Indira Gandhi would have “made us very proud” by the way she would have reacted to the Mumbai terror strikes. Mumbai appeared to be far from her brother’s mind as he boogied at the farmhouse with Samir Sharma, US-based furniture designer son of Captain Satish Sharma, the late Rajiv Gandhi’s flying partner who nursed the First Family’s pocketborough, Rae Bareli, till Sonia Gandhi chose to contest from there in 2004.

The Prince seemed to be completely out of sync with the mood of the nation post-26/11. Since Wednesday night, officials have been cancelling parties they were meant to host and even restaurants called off special events.


What is up with Congress? MK Narayanan is not made to resign because he is a family loyalist. Patil is removed onl when Sonia shows her dispaseaure. He had every hope to continue as HM, he went to CWC meeting thinking that. He was hoping that the Queen would save her as always and he is only answerable to her and not to the nation or to the cabinate.What is he thinking. CM DESHMUKH takes his actor son and a producer to help make a new movie, just a day after this tragedy. RR Patli of NCP says it is a small incident. Queen bee personaly tarpedoes any plan of MMS and Advani being seen ogether and MMS agrees? Have they lost all perspective. Do they think India is a joke, to be homoured for and by only one family?

BTw MSM is back to its dirty trick. There favorite whipping boy (for Arnab as well, I guess Times power that be pulled some chain) of the media is right now - you guessed it BJP. A party that neither rules the center or the state, some how it is the biggest culprit in this terrorism attack as per the English news channel
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Muppalla »

There is a sanskrit saying "prushta thadanath dantha bangaha". Soft Translation "when you slap a guy on his back his teeth fell down".

Instead of finding the solutions to problems or fixing the accountability on the persons for the failure (GOI and the ruling party(ies) ), the media and the government is after the opposition.

The new fashion of the day is as it is a political failure let us blame all the politicians rather than finding persons to make them accountable. No single media outlet carries any criticism of Rajmata.
Last edited by Muppalla on 01 Dec 2008 20:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Sai »

It is standard operating procedure of the Padmasri-winning "journalists" to start blaming the "political class" when it is basically Congress party that is to blame.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by pradeepe »

HariC wrote:Video of the Girlie Pig being beaten by mumbaiwalas

Is it any wonder that guy screamed ' i wanna live'...
What! The footage is very grainy but that obviously was not enough. He should be trashed to within an inch of his life and made to live.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by krishnan »

'If it had not been (Major) Sandeep's house, not even a dog would have glanced that way.'

This was how Kerala [Images] Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan heaped scorn on Monday on the family of NSG Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan, who was killed in the Mumbai terror attack during commando operations, igniting a controversy after smarting under the snub from the father of the angry officer when he went to Bangalore to offer his condolences.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/01m ... -house.htm
Last edited by krishnan on 01 Dec 2008 20:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Lalmohan »

krishnan wrote:
'If it had not been (Major) Sandeep's house, not even a dog would have glanced that way.'

This was how Kerala [Images] Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan heaped scorn on Monday on the family of NSG Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan, who was killed in the Mumbai terror attack during commando operations, igniting a controversy after smarting under the snub from the father of the angry officer when he went to Bangalore to offer his condolences.
asshole of the first order, shithead

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/01m ... -house.htm
if the ordinary people of this idiot's constituency got to hear about their anti-national neta, i wonder how keen they would be to vote for him?
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by krishnan »

It got me so angry, just couldnt stop myself from typing that
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by Johann »

I'm not sure why it was said earlier on the thread that it was 'a stroke of luck' that Marcos was there - they have Maritime Counter-Terrorism duties, particularly with regard to Bombay High.

The point is that it isnt just Bombay High that deserves that kind of dedicated tactical team. Bombay itself does, and so do all of India's major cities that are on the terrorist map.
Sanjay wrote:Johann, one thing I find truly offensive is the insinuation that we Indians can't analyse anything clearly at this moment because emotions are high. Not accusing you of anything personally but...

I find that to be a widespread opinion perpetuated by the Western media. Our anger is real. But we are not morons - we can still think and analyse.
For what its worth Sanjay, I dont personally doubt ISI involvement in the attack.

The US intelligence community within hours of the 9/11 attack came to the opinion that it was mounted by Al Qaeda.

You deal with a particular threat for long enough, you recognise the patterns and tell-tale signs in an attack - that is true of professional intelligence officers anywhere in the world, particularly in democracies.

However, I do remember that in the international left wing press, and in the press in the Muslim world there was the same kind of insinuation - i.e. theyre angry, they dont know for sure, they're just going to round up and beat up the usual suspects out of a desire for revenge, etc.

Its infuriating, but it isnt worth losing focus on what is really important - preventing as many future attacks as possible, and minimising fatalities in the attacks that do get through.
The SWAT teams of the US did not exactly cover themselves in glory at either Columbine or Virginia Tech. Where in the US did they actually come under fire enroute to the site ? Israel you say has improved since Ma'alot. Yes it has - and India improved after Blue Star and Black Thunder. Israel has not faced any fidayeen attack of this nature for a long time.
Sanjay, here is a list of recent fatal attacks

http://www.adl.org/Israel/israel_attacks.asp

As you can see, there have been many fidayeen attacks on Israel in the recent past, including the tragic massacre of students at the Yeshiva near Jerusalem in January this year.

January 2002 saw two separate fidayeen massacres, including one at at a wedding banquet in Hadera.

What has kept the number of fatalities down in each case is 2-fold; rapid armed response, and the difficulty that Palestinian terrorists have in getting larger teams in to Israel proper, which is the result of huge efforts since the 1970s.

Seaborne attacks much like those in Mumbai were attempted in June of 1990 aimed at Tel Aviv - there were 16 of them in two speedboats, all logistically supported and trained in Libya. They failed because like earlier such attacks they were intercepted at sea.
Furthermore, if you base your assessment of what happened at CST is based on a photographer saying he saw masses of armed policemen at CST, then you are being very selective in your choice of information.

There were a total of 6 supposedly armed policemen at CST. Their armament at best was with 0.303 rifles. How many were felled in the initial fusillade we don't know. One did shoot back. We don't know if others did.
As I said earlier, given the magnitude of the threat to Mumbai, including past attacks, at the very least these men deserved much better in the way of training and equipment. That is why I said the authorities can not be serious about preventing loss of life given 15 years of terror in Mumbai.

The two terrorists at CST should not have been able to walk away to their next set of targets and the hotel if armed police were posted there. They should have been pinned down, fighting for their lives.
Ok let us put this to rest, If Israel is so capable, why did not they take on TSP nuke proliferation to Iran, Libya etc etc.

Israel is smart enough to know its limitations but always projects an image that it can reach anywhere if its interests are threatened.

Which our man Johaan always ready sing in chorus...
Spinster,

The Israelis were horrified when they discovered how far along the Libyan programme was in 2002. They were so focussed on Iran, they completely missed what was going on with Libya until CIA and MI6 briefed them.

No single country can assemble the total threat picture - that is why intelligence agencies have to collaborate with each other.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Post by vkthakur »

Deleted. Personal blog promotion masquerading as a post, with inciteful content.

Please post either your own thoughts with regard to thread discussion here, or an attributed press article.
Last edited by Suraj on 01 Dec 2008 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed cut and pasted blog content
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