J & K news and discussion

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 22 Nov 2008 16:40

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Nov 2008 20:06

Gerard wrote:Turkey supports J&K separatists

Turkey seems to have been the strongest Paki supporter all these years despite its "secularism"..

Even Mushy sings paeans about Tukey-Paki friendship in his book.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 22 Nov 2008 20:31

Why cant we summon Turkey's ambassador saying that it is not good to talk about Kashmir in Turkey's trade as well as geopolitical interest. Why not use one of the conferences higher up to issue concern about the fate of Kurdish refugee's who are stuck up in sout-east turkey and wants a separate motherland.

If these idiots think that everything related to Muslims is their business why cant we Indian's make everything non-muslim/peaceful muslims as our business too.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Nov 2008 20:43

Pro-Kashmiri Muslim hot air from Bharka asking India to 'sieze the moment' after the high turnout in J&K. What is there to sieze? The elections have showed, much to TSP proxies like Bharka and other anti-India elites' discomfort that while secessionist sentiment might previal (sorry about that), short of TSP keeping the pot boiling, the 'core issue' solves itself.

satya · Post by **satya** » 22 Nov 2008 22:02

There's an article in this week's India Today on J&K assembly elections. As per the article :

1. Abdullahs /NC is fighting for a political survival in not becoming completely oblivion in state's political arena .

2. PDP/Muftis Father-daughter duo have come back fighting and are becoming the lead in 'self rule' agenda . They have transformed themselves from the 'healing touch' to 'self rule' .

3. GoI's nightmare is a majority for either NC or PDP or NC-PDP alliance that may give them legitimacy to pass a 'self rule' motion in the state assembly.

4. Congress is the biggest loser , na idher ki na udher ki .

5. In recent visit across the LoC by some Separatists , an understanding was reached with terrorists to lie low for time being and allow the election process that may further their cause .

It explains the heavier turnout , APHC & Jihadis have reached some sort of tactical understanding with PDP & NC to make sure they win enough seats . If its true , we may very well see NC-PDP alliance Govt. in J&K sidelining both Congress & BJP .

Jihadis have not given up on J&K except now they wear democratic toga to achieve their aims.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 22 Nov 2008 22:22

sum wrote:
Gerard wrote:Turkey supports J&K separatists
Turkey seems to have been the strongest Paki supporter all these years despite its "secularism"..

Even Mushy sings paeans about Tukey-Paki friendship in his book.

Tharki shouldn't throw stones when its house is made of dirty glass.

Perhaps yindia ought to champion the cause of the poor, downtrodden, dispossessed Kurdish community in Turkey, eh?

And yes, it would be such a tragedy if the world forgot the brutal Armenian genocide now, would it? Can the Armenian ambassador kindly inagurate the Armenian Genocide museum in Dilli's Rajiov/Indira/Mahatma Gandhi center, please?

How about an international workshop on the perlious demographic implications of expanding existing economic and political blocks - such as Eu to include Tharki?

Within another decade odd, I pretty much predict India will force trading partners to renounce any support for paki positions on J&K, pretty much like what PRC now manages to arm-twist its partners to do w.r.t. Tibet and Taiwan. It will be a zimble take-it-or-leave-it proposition and IMO, the smart set will line up behind dilli onlee.

JMTHOs, of course.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Nov 2008 10:14

Link

Two killed in J-K firing on anti-election protesters
Srinagar, DHNS/PTI:
Two persons were killed and seven others injured in police firing on anti-election protesters in Baramulla town in north Kashmir on Saturday. The authorities then imposed an indefinite curfew in the town.

Manzoor Ahmad Kumar (15), a resident of Khanpora, was killed when the personal security officers of the Congress nominee from the constituency Mir Mushtaq, who was campaigning in the area, allegedly opened fire at the anti-poll protesters, sources said.

Polling today

The incident occurred one day prior to the second phase of polling. Six Assembly constituencies including that of Ganderbal, wherefrom National Conference (NC) president Omar Abdullah is contesting the elections, are going to the polls on Sunday.

Reports said that people were holding anti-election protests in Baramulla on Saturday morning.

They were also protesting against police atrocities in the region when Manzoor was killed by the security guards.Protests intensified and more people took to the streets of the town as the news about the killing spread. To worsen the matters Central Reserve Police Force, in hurry to control the situation, opened fire on protesters killing another youth named Tanveer Ahmad of Kakarhama and injuring seven others.

Section 144
“Two persons died in the hospital while four others with bullet injuries were admitted. One of the injured has been referred to a Srinagar hospital for specialised treatment,” Medical Superintendent of Baramulla District hospital Mohammad Shafi said.

Meanwhile, Section 144 has been imposed in Baramulla town to bring the situation under control, according to officials.

Do KMs have a surname of Kumar?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Nov 2008 22:49

Kashmir downtown

What is that hill in the horizon

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 23 Nov 2008 23:01

that looks like the hari parbat fort of srinagar

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Nov 2008 23:45

Where is thi? Srinagar? Looks totally rundown. Where does all the money indian govt gives to Kashmir go?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Nov 2008 05:38

Is there a single site that gives the entire JK electoral map. How many seats are being contested by BJP, Congress, PDP and NC. Any information like potential wins etc.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 24 Nov 2008 08:56

sum wrote:Link
Meanwhile, Section 144 has been imposed in Baramulla town to bring the situation under control, according to officials.
Do KMs have a surname of Kumar?

KM's most definitely do not have surnames like Kumar.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Nov 2008 09:39

Raina is a common K Pandit surname though
Here is one map. Though I'm confused about no. 48. Looks quite large in terms of area.
Sir jee, it's quite difficult to predict the result. Last time PDP and BJP got almost same no. of votes, but BJP won only one seat. Go figure that out.

http://www.mapsofindia.com/assemblypoll ... ashmir.jpg

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 24 Nov 2008 19:08

So the new conspiracy by UPA to give away Kashmir is, let NC and PDP win majority, pass a resolution in K assembly on independence and then UPA can say, hey they got independence, we did not give them. With a willing Obama, that would be a possibility. That would be Sonia Maino and IMF's ManMohan parting gift to India.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Nov 2008 06:24

jamwal wrote:Raina is a common K Pandit surname though
Here is one map. Though I'm confused about no. 48. Looks quite large in terms of area.
Sir jee, it's quite difficult to predict the result. Last time PDP and BJP got almost same no. of votes, but BJP won only one seat. Go figure that out.

http://www.mapsofindia.com/assemblypoll ... ashmir.jpg

As you are one from the area, do you possess any analysis of non-valley seats? Is there any alliance from parties that does not belong to INC, NC, PDP? Is it possible to have an alliance between NC and PDP? If by fluke BJP becomes largest party in JK assembly is there a chance of alliance with either NC or PDP? BJP is standing for 67 seats out of a total of 87 seats.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Nov 2008 06:36

Muppalla, Try this site

Indian Elections- Jammu & Kashmir

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 25 Nov 2008 07:26

^ From Ramana's reference above

Party Constituencies......................Contestants
Bahujan Samaj Party................................. 20
Indian National Congress............................ 18
Bharatiya Janata Party.............................. 13
Rashtriya Janata Dal................................... 3
Jammu & Kashmir National Conference.......... 19
Jammu & Kashmir Peoples Democratic Party... 19
Jammu & Kashmir National Panthers Party...... 17
Samajwadi Party........................................ 6
All India Forward Bloc.................................. 5
Janata Dal (Secular)................................... 2
Janata Dal (United)..................................... 1
Jammu & Kashmir Awami National Conference...11
Lok Jan Shakti Party................................... 7
People'S Democratic Front.......................... 6
Bhartiya Chaitanya Party............................ 1
Janata Party............................................ 1
Jammu and Kashmir Awami League................ 1
Independent.......................................... 104

Where as 2002 Election results say

Party......................................... Contested........ Won
National Conference...................... 85................. 28
Congress.................................... 78................. 21
Bharatiya Janata Party.................. 58................. 1
Communist Party of India, Marxist... 7................. 2
J&K People's Democratic Party....... 58................. 15
Ladakh Union Territory Front........... 2................. 2
Jammu State Morcha..................... 11................. 1
J&K Panthers Party........................ 36................. 4

It doesn't add up to me... any ideas?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Nov 2008 10:26

Muppalla wrote: As you are one from the area, do you possess any analysis of non-valley seats? Is there any alliance from parties that does not belong to INC, NC, PDP? Is it possible to have an alliance between NC and PDP? If by fluke BJP becomes largest party in JK assembly is there a chance of alliance with either NC or PDP? BJP is standing for 67 seats out of a total of 87 seats.

Am not an expert on this..but it's very diffcult for BJP to become the largest party. Alliance with NC is not impossible but with PDP is out of question. Both parties have different vote banks.
BJP can form alliance with other members of Sri Amarnath Yatra Sangharsh Samiti ( Panthers Party, Jammu State Morcha etc) and some Laddakh Based parties. But even then a BJP govt. looks far fetched unless NC is involved or delimitation takes place.
Many districts in Jammu including Doda, Rajouri, Poonch are muslim majority. These seats will be divided between NC, Congress and PDP only.
There might be 67 candidates for BJP but Kashmir has more seats (47) than Jammu and Laddakh combined.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 01 Dec 2008 03:21

hey all,

Nothing surprised(pleasantly) me more than the high voter turn-out in the recent J&K elections....more than 60%...what are we to make of it? A silent vote by the majority that they wish to be a part of India and wish to participate in its democratic processes? I was of the opinion that there would be low voter turn-out because of the terrorist threat...Am waiting to hear on the third phase of elections wherein Kupwara district votes (terrorist infested)....

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Dec 2008 06:21

http://worldfocus.org/blog/2008/12/04/u ... exas/3071/

On Wednesday, I interviewed Vikram Singh, a fellow with the Center for a New American Security, a non-partisan research group that examines national security and defense issues. I was trying to understand why Kashmir in the minds of Indians and Pakistanis was worth such a toll in blood.

I remember talking to those on both sides of the conflict while in Kashmir. Indian officials said India would never give up Kashmir. Kashmiri separatists said they would never stop desiring Kashmir. With both sides using words like never, compromise is hard to find.

It was what Vikram said after our interview that triggered a light bulb of understanding for this American. Vikram described the feelings about the conflict in a way to which I could relate.

“Think of Texas,” he said, “which was once a part of Mexico.” (Kashmir is actually about the size of Kansas.)

Vikram was asking me to imagine if that conflict had never been resolved, or if Mexico suddenly wanted Texas back. Beyond not wanting to give up a huge swath of U.S. geography, Texas is also part of the American psyche.

Its wide-open ranges, its history, cowboys, wildcatters, the stars at night they burn so bright — Texas is not just a place. It embodies much of America’s essence. We’d never give up Texas. Kashmir is Texas to India…unfortunately, it’s also the same to Pakistan.

Other experts have suggested that now could be the best time for India and Pakistan to resolve their long feud over Kashmir. That is extremely naïve.

It cannot be fixed with a week of shuttle diplomacy. Nor can separatists hope to win it by murder and terror. Instead, it will take small steps over years, like trade routes, to bring a resolution.

For now, the best we can hope — for India, for Pakistan and for Kashmir — is that these nuke neighbors back off the brink and lift their fingers from the button.

- Martin Savidge

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Dec 2008 09:19

The Hoori rats’s crisis
By A.G. Noorani
http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/06/op.htm

NOT till Dec 28 when the votes are counted will we know whether the plans by some in New Delhi to install Farooq Abdullah and later his son, Omar, in power in Kashmir have succeeded.

But the first three of the seven phases of the elections have sent two clear messages which neither the Unionists nor the separatists will like. One is that the voters sought change in governance while retaining their commitment to azadi. No one contests this. The other is that the electorate has snubbed the leaders of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC). On Sept 12 Mirwaiz Umar Farooq warned the Unionists “to fear the wrath of the people”. Their wrath might be visited on the APHC unless it puts its own house in order soon enough.

It has consistently overplayed its hand by making tall claims. The APHC cannot deliver peace because it does not control the militants. It was piqued and felt left out when the Hizbul Mujahideen declared a ceasefire on July 24, 2000 and began parleys with the Government of India. The fragile unity between the leaders came apart in 2003.

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Dec 2008 11:48

Nothing surprised(pleasantly) me more than the high voter turn-out in the recent J&K elections....more than 60%...what are we to make of it?

The only thing i could make of it was that people wanted better facilities at Indian tax-payer money...Once that is achieved, the same "voting majority" can join all the anti-Indian processions of the Hurri-rats and chant "Death to India".

Many of the KMs interviewed said that voting and Azaadi were separate and voting was only for better facilities and doesn't mean pro-India!!!

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 13 Dec 2008 13:16

J-K votes in fifth phase, PDP strongholds go to polls

Srinagar: The fate of People's Democratic Party (PDP) President Mehbooba Mufti will be sealed on Saturday as 11 Assembly constituencies go to polls in the fifth phase of polling in Jammu and Kashmir.

Out of the 11 constituencies, six are in South Kashmir and its is an area where the PDP is strong and its star campaigner Mehbooba's political appeal is expected to draw good number of voters from Wachi segment.

Mehbooba is among 179 candidates whose electoral fate hangs in the balance. Five women nominees and 58 independents are also in the fray.

She last won from her bastion Pahalgam but this time around decided to contest from a relatively tough constituency.

"Pulwama is our backbone and it is because of my father Mufti Mohammad Sayeed that so many people are coming out to vote," says Mehbooba.

The Muftis want to take a good lead especially in Pulwama, Shopian in fifth phase and then in Anantnag and Kulgam in the sixth.

PDP's arch rival National Conference too sounds confident of a good showing.

"We hope our performance will be better than in 2002. We had won two seats in 2002 but if we win more than two it will be good," National Congress President Omar Abdullah.

In the first four phases of polls, 60 per cent of people have defied separatists call for poll boycott and defeated harsh winter to stamp their approval on democracy.

Now it is the turn of south Kashmir and will it follow suit?

In Jammu, Congress leader Lal Singh is trying his luck from Kathua constituency with the party facing acute dissidence as six rebels are also in the fray for five seats.

Other places going to polls include Hiranagar which bore the brunt of the Amarnath land row agitation.

Voting in Bani, Billawar, Baholi and Hiranagar Assembly constituencies are taking place under the presence of a large number of security personnel.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/jk-votes-in- ... 437-3.html

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 13 Dec 2008 15:36

Prem wrote:The Hoori rats’s crisis
By A.G. Noorani
http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/06/op.htm

NOT till Dec 28 when the votes are counted will we know whether the plans by some in New Delhi to install Farooq Abdullah and later his son, Omar, in power in Kashmir have succeeded.

But the first three of the seven phases of the elections have sent two clear messages which neither the Unionists nor the separatists will like. One is that the voters sought change in governance while retaining their commitment to azadi .

How does he know this? Standrad refrain from all these anti-India, pro-TSP terrorist lovers. Either India coerced the KMs to vote, and if that charge doesn't stick, the people voted in large #s does not mean that they don't want azadi. Sure, I want the moon too when I go out to vote, but does that mean much? These worthies don't realize that as long as TSP does not meddle with their terrorists, there is no Kashmir problem. There is only a TSP problem.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 19 Dec 2008 08:57

Judging from the election so far, it seems that solution to Kashmir problem lies in keeping all these Houri-rats and other assorted rabble rouser piglets under lock and key as they are currently. Just keep them under lock and key and there is no Kashmir problem.

There is only a TSP problem, and solution to that lies in Azad Pakshtunistan with Pakjabis as their bitches, Azad Sindhudesh, and Azad Baluchistan.

This is the model GOI needs to work on.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 23 Dec 2008 13:59

Pak soldier among three terrorists held in J&K

CNN-IBN

Jammu: Jammu and Kashmir Police have averted a major terror strike with the arrest of three Jaish-e-Mohammad fidayeen (suicide bombers).

All the three terrorists belong to Pakistan and one of them, Gulam Fareed, is a serving Pakistani Army soldier. Fareed joined the infantry battalion of the Pakistan Army as a sepoy in 2001.

Fareed joined the 10 AK Regiment of Pakistani Army in 2001 and his belt number is 4319148.

He was selected from the Pakistani Army by Jaish to carry out terror strike in India and police claim say he is still serving in the Army.

Director General of Police, Jammu, Kuldeep Khoda confirmed that the three terrorists arrested were planning an attack in Jammu to disrupt the ongoing Assembly polls.

"Questioning has revealed that all three of them had come from Pakistan. They all belong to Jaish-e-Mohammad outfit and they had been deputed here to launch fidayeen attack. One of them revealed that he had been trained to take a loaded vehicle to a target which would be subsequently identified and exploded,” said Khoda.

All the fidayeen were reportedly trained by Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Maulana Masood Azhar's younger brother Mufti Abdul Rauf.

Police also say a Jaish camp in Karachi has been operating under the patronage of Pakistani Army just outside the Cantonment in the cty.

They were in Rawalpindi with Mufti Abdul Rauf and from there the three terrorists went to Karachi from where they took a flight to Dhaka.

They infiltrated into India through West Bengal and then took a train from Kolkata and reached Jammu. They checked into a hotel near the railway station from there they moved to hotel in Jammu city to carry out their plans.

The guide for the terrorists was to come from Kashmir but he could not reach as the roads have been blocked due to heavy snowfall. The local terrorists were to give ammunition and specify a target for the attack.

Police sources say that four more terrorists are reported to have infiltrated with the three arrested terrorists.

The arrests come just two days after the Jammu police arrested four suspected terrorists including the commander of Harkat-ul-Jehadi-Islami at the Jammu railway station on Sunday.

The final phase of elections is on December 24 in which 21 Assembly constituencies will vote.

Source - ibnlive.com

These Scumbags will never learn

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Dec 2008 21:16

Nihat, The mistake is to suppose that these terrorists are civilians who are driven by religious frevor. They are the irregular troops of the TSPArmy to give plausibl deniablity to theri attacks and prevent state retaliation. Its the modern way that the sub-modern mindset of the TSPA works. offcourse they are TSPA soldiers in one way or the other for they are all paid for from their funds either directly or indirectly.

Chellaram · Post by **Chellaram** » 23 Dec 2008 21:56

http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/23/stories ... 560800.htm

For secessionists, humiliation follows hubris

Praveen Swami

“Elections are ultimately projected as a sort of referendum by India, and that is why we have called for a complete boycott of such a process,” said the chairman of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, on November 10. Speaking to journalists just a week before the seven-phase elections to the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly began, the Mirwaiz made “a last call to the so-called mainstream politicians to join the separatist movement and pull out.” If they still chose to contest, “the people shall start a social boycott campaign against them.”

Humiliation, as any student of tragic literature could have predicted, has followed hubris. Just seven days after the Mirwaiz held out the threat, 74 per cent of the voters in Gurez, 57 per cent in Bandipora and 47 per cent in Sonawari defied his call, and lined up outside polling booths.

Kashmir’s Islamist-led secessionists have been further disgraced since, for the turnout in the Kashmir Valley has averaged over 50 per cent in each successive phase. On November 21, Mirwaiz Farooq insisted that “we are sure there will be 100 per cent poll boycott.” Tehreek-e-Hurriyat chief Syed Ali Shah Geelani, for his part, let it be known on November 22 that the people would “boycott polls and not let the fellow Kashmiris down.” But a day later, 59 per cent of the voters in Kangan and 51 per cent in Ganderbal braved the cold to exercise their franchise.

i thought this part of the article was helpful in understanding some of the politics in Kashmir; i think a lot of this is also discussed in Praveen Swami's book "India, Pakistan and the Secret Jihad"

Part of the reason for the incomprehension of the election turnout pattern is a discourse that a priori casts Kashmiri secessionism as the authentic sentiment of the people of the State. The high turnout in the 1996 and 2002 elections was widely attributed to coercive pressure from Indian troops, rather than the political influence of the candidates. Without dispute, the Army did ask rural residents to vote in both 1996 and 2002 — action which must be read in the context of jihadi groups threatening them with death if they chose to do so, and killing dozens of political activists to demonstrate their seriousness of purpose. However, a careful study of voting patterns demonstrates that there was no demonstrable relationship between this persuasive activity and turnout. Zero voting took place in some areas where the troops were reported to have pushed voters; some areas which saw no coercion at all, conversely, reported a high turnout.

Kashmir secessionists, it is rarely understood, represent specific social classes — not a generalised, free-floating “sentiment.” Most major secessionist leaders were members of the Muslim United Front, a political coalition that represented an alliance between the urban petty bourgeoisie and the rural orchard-owning elite. Both classes saw their pre-independence influence decline through years of the NC rule — a rule founded on an alliance between the small peasant, on the one hand, and a new elite of contractors and capitalists, on the other. Islam, for the classes which backed the MUF, was an instrument to legitimise the protest of a threatened social order against a modernity which threatened to obliterate it.

In Srinagar and other urban centres, this coalition succeeded in securing the support of disenfranchised youth — the children of the city’s traditional bourgeoisie, who are witnessing the inevitable death of the artisanal and trading occupations of their parents but have neither the skills nor resources to compete in the new world emerging around them. Kashmir’s Islamists-led secessionist movement became a medium for their rage at being denied entry through the gates of the earthly paradise before them — a phenomenon which formed the most visible part of the street protests during the Shrine Board movement. However, the notion that the street protests reflected pan-Kashmiri sentiment was a fiction.

a suggestion for the Indian government from Swami:

In January, Jammu and Kashmir will have a new elected Assembly. New Delhi would do well to engage with the multiple voices it will contain, rather than reach out once more to a secessionist leadership that has been humiliated by the people it claims to represent.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 23 Dec 2008 23:05

3 Jaish-e-Mohammad men, including Pak. soldier, held for terror plot

Jammu (PTI): Three Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorists, including a serving soldier of Pakistani army, who planned to carry out suicide attacks during the ongoing Assembly polls in Jammu and Kashmir, were arrested from a hotel in Jammu.

"We had received strong inputs that terrorists guided from across the border were being asked to launch action in the state in the midst of Assembly elections," DGP Kuldeep Khoda told a press conference on Tuesday.

Intelligence inputs showed that terrorists and some separatist groups were desperate to carry out disturbances since the polling process had received overwhelming support from the people, Khoda said.

During a checking operation by Special Operations Group (SOG) of police and CRPF in Gumat area of Jammu city, the three suspects were held from a room in a hotel as they failed to justify their presence there on the evening of December 21, the DGP said.

Khoda said the suspects had presented themselves before the police by giving fictitious names -- Akhilesh Prasad, Inder Kumar and Gulshan Kumar, which they used for hotel booking. They also claimed they were all residents of Delhi.

During interrogation, one of the terrorists revealed his identity as Ghulam Fareed, Khoda said, adding he is a soldier belonging to 10 "Azad Kashmir" Regiment of Pakistan army.

He said Fareed was a member of HuJI and underwent training for three months in communications and in handling different kinds of weapons before he joined Pakistan army in 2001.

Khoda said the trio was to launch a suicide attack and one of them trained in communication and driving was assigned to ram an explosive-laden vehicle into a target to be identified by a local contact.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 24 Dec 2008 03:12

Telegraph: ‘Pak soldier’ on suicide run

‘Desertion’ link to Kasab home district
MUZAFFAR RAINA AND NASIR JAFFRY

Srinagar/Islamabad, Dec. 23: Jammu and Kashmir police today claimed to have arrested a serving Pakistani soldier and two Jaish-e-Mohammed militants, who allegedly entered India through the Bengal-Bangladesh border and spent a day and a half in Calcutta.

Whether or not the “army regular” claim has any substance may hinge on a crucial digit — zero — missing from the man’s alleged belt number as cited by the state police’s official release.

Ghulam Farid is from 10 AK (Azad Kashmir) Regiment, Jammu and Kashmir police chief Kuldeep Khoda said, and the release gave the belt number as 4319184. Khoda said Farid had joined the army in 2001 and was “deputed” to work with Jaish in 2005.

Farid and his fellow Pakistani comrades, held from a Jammu hotel on Sunday, were allegedly planning a Mariott-like suicide car bombing during the state elections, whose last phase is scheduled tomorrow in 21 Jammu and Srinagar constituencies.

In Islamabad, a military official said the arrested Farid could not be a serving Pakistani soldier since all such belt numbers are of eight digits in Pakistan whereas the Jammu and Kashmir police had cited a seven-digit number.

However, he made a stunning revelation: if a zero is added to the seven digits, the new belt number — 43191840 — would be that of a former Pakistan army sepoy, also called Ghulam Farid.

This Farid, the officer said, had deserted the army on June 6, 2006, from Okara in Pakistan’s Punjab province. So, he is certainly not a serving soldier, nor is his unit deployed along the Line of Control, the officer added.

Okara happens to be the home district of arrested Mumbai gunman Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, two of the other nine gunmen, as well as alleged mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, the Lashkar-e-Toiba operations chief.

The Pakistani officer suggested that Indian authorities may have arrested Farid sometime ago and were now trying to “play this drama (in the light of the) current situation”.

Jammu and Kashmir police officers said the arrested Farid and his two comrades — Mohammad Abdullah and Mohammad Imran — had been trained by Mufti Abdul Rouf, brother of Jaish chief Masood Azhar, whom Delhi wants Islamabad to hand over. All the men were allegedly trained at the Mulir cantonment in Karachi by Jaish masters.

Police sources said Farid lived in Bhimber village in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir; Abdullah was from Harpur in North West Frontier Province and Imran from Dera Nawab Shah in Bahawalpur, Punjab province. “After reaching Jammu, they first stayed near Jammu railway station and then checked in at Hotel Samrat,” Khoda said.

He added that the police raided the hotel following specific intelligence and arrested the trio, who had checked in as Akhilesh Prasad, Inder Kumar and Gulshan Kumar.

The three men were waiting for a contact from Srinagar, who failed to reach Jammu because the highway had been closed by landslides at Panthal, Khoda said.

“The man from Srinagar was to hand over arms and ammunition to the suicide bombers and give them a target.”

One of the arrested men has revealed he had been trained to ram an explosive-laden vehicle into a target, the police chief said. Interrogation also revealed that four more militants had been sent from Pakistan to J&K, sources said.

The arrests came a day after the police said they had arrested an operative of the Bangladesh-based Harkat-ul Jihadi Islami, a Kashtiwar resident named Suhail Faisal. He was allegedly involved in the Varanasi and Kanpur terror strikes.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Dec 2008 22:29

Polls finally over in J&K with higher than ever turnout.

55 per cent turnout in final phase of J-K polls,overall 61 pc,
http://dailyexcelsior.com/

SRINAGAR/JAMMU : In a rebuff to separatists boycott call, an overall 61 per cent of the electorate voted in the Jammu and Kashmir assembly elections with an estimated 55 per cent voter turn-out recorded in the seventh and final phase today.

The real snub to separatists was reflected when the eight constituencies of Srinagar, considered their strong-hold, recorded a 20 per cent turn-out-the highest in 20 years-compared to five per cent in the 2002 elections.

Barring stray incidents of stone-pelting and clashes between anti-poll protestors and security forces today, the polling in the 21 constituencies-eight in Srinagar city and 13 in Jammu region-was by and large peaceful.

Like in the previous phases, voters came out in good numbers despite the winter chill and cocked a snook at separatists across the Kashmir valley. Voter turn-out in 2003 elections was about 43 per cent.

Counting of votes in the elections for 87 constituencies staggered over a month and held amid unprecedented security cover will commence at 9 AM on December 28. The keenly awaited polls did not witness any major militant violence despite threats.

Chief electoral officer B R Sharma told reporters the eight constituencies of Srinagar recorded an average 20 per cent turnout as compared to five per cent turnout in 2002.

In Srinagar, where the authorities scuttled the ‘Lal Chowk Chalo’ march of the separatists by virtually sealing off the city, Sonawar recorded the highest of 33.64 per cent voting followed by Hazratbal (26.5), Batmaloo (18.06), Zadibal (16.60), Khanyar (16.54), Amirakadal (13.50), Iddgah (13.30) and Habbakadal (11.28), he said.

The polling percentage in 11 constituencies of Jammu district was 68.62 per cent while it was 74 per cent in two constituencies of Samba district.

Giving constituency wise breakup for the Jammu region, Sharma said Samba, Chhamb, R S Pura, Akhnoor, Nagrota, Vijaypur, Marh, Bishnah, Raipur Domana, and Suchetgarh recorded the highest polling percentage of 78, 77, 75, 75, 73, 72.89, 72, 72, 70 and 70 respectively.

Gandhinagar recorded 63 per cent followed by Jammu east (61) and Jammu west (60). In the Kammu region, the elections were being held in the backdrop of the controversy over the Amarnath yatra.

Stray clashes between police and protestors injured at least 14 people, including a photojournalist, in Srinagar. Anti-election demonstrators took to the streets in various parts of the city but were stopped by police and paramilitary men who were deployed in strength.

The fate of 393 candidates, including ex-Chief Minister Farooq Abdullah, former Speaker Tara Chand and six former ministers will be decided in today’s phase.

There was no report of major poll disruption from anywhere in Srinagar but incidents of malfunctioning of electronic voting machines came in from Jammu region.

In Tankipora area of Srinagar, stone-pelting protestors, trying to take out a march in violation of prohibitory orders, clashed with police. The police and paramilitary personnel used batons and fired tear gas shells to disperse the crowds.

Among the nine injured in the clashes, the condition of Abid Bhat, photojournalist of Political and Business Daily, was stated to be serious, official sources said.

They said security forces also resorted to teargas shelling at Natipora locality where a group of youths tried to take out a march. Five persons, including two policemen, were injured in the clashes, the sources said.

Over 70,000 personnel of Central security forces have been deployed in and around 1,872 polling booths set up for over 16.91-lakh electorate, including 8,22,671 women voters in Srinagar, Jammu and Samba districts. (PTI)

It seems to me that J&K will have another another hung assembly. Azad ruled out any alliance with NC and he'll loose all credibility if he forms a coalition with PDP. Final results will be very interesting. BJP will have little or marginal role even now.

Regarding the terrorists caught, local papers reported that some rifles and grenades were recovered. TV reports didnt mention that. Also they were about to move to another hotel right in the heart of city, adjacent to bus stand. If that area was their target, casualities would have been in 100s.

ezra · Post by **ezra** » 25 Dec 2008 00:20

fanne wrote:So the new conspiracy by UPA to give away Kashmir is, let NC and PDP win majority, pass a resolution in K assembly on independence and then UPA can say, hey they got independence, we did not give them. With a willing Obama, that would be a possibility. That would be Sonia Maino and IMF's ManMohan parting gift to India.

India is a secular country where all religions enjoy equal status and would exist in harmony were it not for the interference of outside forces.

Since a huge Muslim population chose to remain in India after separation is indicative of the fact that Pakistan was given to large a terroritory to form an exclusively Muslim country, East and West Pakistan. This is bourne out by the fact that Pakistan is unable to govern the present territory under its control, the so called tribal areas where lawless and terrorist elements reign threatening world peace.

The fact that India owns the whole of Kasmir is an undisputable fact. The solution to the Kasmir issue is for the people of Pakistan to separate themselves further like east Pakistan did and to hand back control of the part of Kashmir it occupies voluntarily which will in any event have to be taken back by India one way or the other.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 26 Dec 2008 03:27

Srinagar votes, stunned hawk Geelani admits: Unthinkable

Srinagar votes, stunned hawk Geelani admits: Unthinkable
Zahid Rafiq

Srinagar: Policemen sit idle at the entrance, the gates are open, there are no visitors. This is Syed Ali Shah Geelani’s home, the citadel for Kashmir’s hardline separatists who announced a poll boycott from their rooftops only to see it come crashing down in the long lines outside polling booths across the Valley.

In the last phase of polls today, Srinagar, too, has decided to vote. This city was Ground Zero of the anti-poll campaign but it saw a peaceful four-fold increase in turnout: from 5.06% in 2002 to 20% today. This took the overall turnout in the J&K polls to 61.5%, a massive jump from 43% in 2002.

No wonder then that inside Geelani’s house, all you can hear is the sound of silence and his stunned disbelief. “Our people have shown a weak resolve and this voting has pushed us far back in our struggle for freedom,” says Geelani. “I had never thought that the people would turn out to vote like this.”

He’s wearing his embroidered gown, his signature when he would appear from the top window of the house to pacify thousands of pro-freedom protestors barely weeks ago. Today, that window is shut, its curtains drawn.

So surprised is he by the turnout that he even speculates whether non-violence was a factor. “The gun is also an important factor of the (freedom) movement and if this factor falls silent, the movement suffers and it has suffered,” he says.

So was the call for a poll boycott a political blunder? “No,” he insists, “we have always asked our people to refrain from participating in elections and they did so in 1996 and 2002. Today, we have to consider the fact that scores of local candidates were made to contest from everywhere in the Valley. Their relatives and neighbours are enough to raise the voter turnout percentage.”

But doesn’t that mean the boycott didn’t work? Pushed, Geelani admits: “It (the boycott) is an act which has displayed our immaturity.”

After such an honest admission, he leans back and smiles when told about people lining up at polling booths in the city. “The Indian intelligentsia and intellectuals who supported our just cause for self-determination a few months ago have also become irrelevant by this high voter turnout.”

The mainstream political parties have also toed a “soft separatist” line to woo voters, he thinks, and people fell to this “dirty trick” that included promises of “self rule” and “autonomy.”

Doesn’t the turnout signal a disconnect between the voter and the separatists, including the Hurriyat? “We have a fairly strong base but we cannot be compared with the Hamas or the Hezbollah which is often the case,” Geelani says. “They have an area under control where they do as they wish. They are the Government there but here we are in an even harder struggle where we are stopped from even opening a Baitul-maal (community godown to store goods for charity) in a village”. In short, if the separatist leadership had not been put under arrest, Geelani says, there would have been a poll boycott.

But just three months ago, there were massive pro-azadi protests during the Amarnath Yatra agitation, and Geelani was one of the star speakers.

And today many of the same people had come out to vote. “Times change and with it the situation changes as well. This situation will also change and people will ask for freedom again,” Geelani says.

And then he quotes a verse from the Koran to emphasize that despair is sin and he will never lose hope. “We will continue our struggle tirelessly and people will rise again.”

Not far away, a wide lane leads to Hurriyat Chairman Mirwaiz Umar Farooq’s house guarded by security forces and unending spools of concertina. Only few houses away, a government school is also guarded by vigilant security personnel — this is the Nigeen polling station 83 at Chak-e-Sadrabal. But Mirwaiz’s appeal for poll boycott doesn’t seem to have been heard here.

Two short separate queues of men and women are waiting to cast their vote. It is 12 noon and 205 of the 551 registered voters have already cast their votes. Ask them why and you hear the familiar refrain. “We have our own problems. There should be someone to resolve them,” says 22-year-old Afroza Akhter after casting her vote. “Azadi is a truth but there are other problems also. Water and electricity are needed by everyone. Then there remains Azadi and we will fight for it till the end”. As the hours slip by, women in coloured scarves, some of them veiled in black, start to pour in and the line of voters begins to form again.

Voter turnout in Phase 7 of election: 55%

Total voter turnout in 2008 Assembly polls: 61.5%

7 civilians killed during 2008 Assembly polls (26 were killed in 2002)

Poll percentage comparison for Srinagar city

Constituency 2008 2002

Hazratbal 26.50 7.12

Zadibal 16.60 4.78

Idgah 13.50 4.75

Khanyaar 16.54 4.22

Habbakadal 11.28 3.21

Amirakadal 13.50 3.06

Sonwar 33.64 9.96

Batamaloo 18.06 4.00

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 26 Dec 2008 03:30

After Geelani, Mirwaiz admits ‘we got it wrong’

After Geelani, Mirwaiz admits ‘we got it wrong’
Bashaarat Masood Posted: Dec 26, 2008 at 0047 hrs IST

Srinagar: A day after Syed Ali Shah Geelani, the hardline face of separatists in the Valley, admitted that the 62 per cent turnout in the J&K Assembly polls was something he had “never thought would happen,” the head of the moderate wing of the Hurriyat Conference, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, has echoed this and gone a step further.

Calling for a need to “introspect and rethink,” the Mirwaiz said that separatists lacked “rapport with the ground”.

“It is all about lack of rapport,” Mirwaiz told The Indian Express. “All our leaders are stationed in Srinagar. (Syed Ali) Geelani sahib is from Sopore, Shabir Shah sahib is from Islamabad (Anantnag)... Then we have Bilal (Gani Lone) sahib, Professor (Abdul Gani Bhat) sahib... It is also important that they work in their respective areas. It is something Hurriyat has to rethink and concentrate on. Leaders have to take responsibility of their respective regions.”

Mirwaiz, who is also the head priest of Srinagar’s Jamia Masjid (Grand Mosque), said it was important to understand the “genuine problems” of the rural Kashmir, understand the people and educate them but simultaneously blamed the Government for “denying them a level playing field”.

“We have to acknowledge that the rural people have genuine problems like pani (water) and bijli (electricity) and Hurriyat is not in a position to address them,” he said.

“But India is always projecting it as a substitute to solution (of Kashmir issue)”.

Mirwaiz admitted to Hurriyat’s own shortcomings and said the amalgam was ready to look within. “We also need to introspect. We will sit together and rethink about our future strategy,” Mirwaiz said.

“But that is possible only after our leaders are released and curbs on our movement lifted”.

Mirwaiz, however, said the high voter turnout in the polls did not mean a “vote against Azadi”. “Even the people, who have voted, clearly distinguished between Azadi and electoral process,” he said.

“It is not a vote against Azadi or for India. It is a vote for the (resolution of) people’s day to day problems,” said the Hurriyat leader.

The Hurriyat chairman sees a limited role for the Kashmir Coordination Committee (KCC) - an amalgam of separatist organisations, traders and transporters formed to spearhead the poll boycott campaign. “It (Coordination Committee) is sort of a bigger alliance or a working relationship with other organisations,” Mirwaiz said. “It is there but the focus has to be on Hurriyat”.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 26 Dec 2008 06:49

jamwal wrote:It seems to me that J&K will have another another hung assembly. Azad ruled out any alliance with NC and he'll loose all credibility if he forms a coalition with PDP. Final results will be very interesting. BJP will have little or marginal role even now.

Did you vote?

What do people on the ground say in Jammu....I heard from a friend that there were lots of Congress flags in the city during the elections. Is it because Congress leaders in Jammu defied the Delhi leadership and supported the Amarnath agitation?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 26 Dec 2008 07:06

RaviBg wrote:Srinagar votes, stunned hawk Geelani admits: Unthinkable

“The Indian intelligentsia and intellectuals who supported our just cause for self-determination a few months ago have also become irrelevant by this high voter turnout.”

Does this mean that the likes of Arun D'Roy are no longer useful and thus have been dropped like hot potatoes? Oh! The pain!!

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 26 Dec 2008 22:48

Geelani's statement about "indian intellectuals supporting our cause becoming irrelevant" only shows that he is earning his RAW paycheck (and the medical insurance that pays for his AIIMS bills!)

However, shouldn't get complacent as a result of any of this. The original Hurry-rats may be worried about their waning influence. It doesn't matter because their political masters always considered them dispensable.

However, there is no reason why the Americans can't reach out to the new "soft-line secessionists" (like the PDP and the NC who used to be "mainstream political parties") , and prop them up to become a second batch of Hurry-rats.

Cross-posting the following from the Indian Response to Terrorism thread because it's probably more germane to this discussion.

The real danger posed by the Americans is in Kashmir. Expect the Obama administration to come at us with guns blazing on that score, no sooner than the American economy has shown its first signs of stabilizing.

Here's what many of us tend to overlook. It's very common for NRIs, especially US-based NRIs like many people on this forum, to subscribe to a certain smug truism regarding America and the Paki snake it nurtured at its breast for decades.

We say, ah-ha, see how the Americans have been played for fools by the double-dealing Pakistan army! See how the terrorism emanating from Pakistan finally came around to hurt the Americans themselves! See, now the Americans will have to admit that supporting an Islamist military dictatorship against India (a secular democracy and "natural ally" of the West) was the wrong thing to do!

Even as we prepare ourselves to embrace our prodigal American allies with all-forgiving hugs, the fact is that we're only 2/3rds of the way correct in making that assumption. Yes, the Americans are only now beginning to realize that they have been on the receiving end of a Hudaibiya scam by the Pakis, ever since the Global War on Terror began. And they are only now responding to the scamsters by insisting on predator strikes, SF missions across the Durand line and so on.

And yes, the terrorism emanating from Pakistan did come around to hurt the Americans also, most spectacularly on 9/11/2001 of course, but for the better part of a decade in a number of other ways.

However, we're dead wrong if we think the Americans have learned some sort of "Dharmic Lesson" or Hitopadesha from all this.

Even if the US finally decides to destroy or break up Pakistan as a means to victory in its Afghan conflict, we'd be sadly mistaken to believe that such an action heralded the abandonment of US policies aimed at containing India through the manipulation of Islamism.

Because the US doesn't think it was a bad idea to play a "Moslem State" against India at all. It served them very well for many decades to do so. Pakistan just happened to be an instance of the experiment that began to go wrong, for reasons unrelated to India, sometime around 1988. Why should we expect the Americans to conclude from the specific failure of Pakistan, that the principles behind the experiment were themselves flawed?

No: in fact, if it becomes imperative for the Americans to destroy Pakistan, they will be all the more eager to carve off another slice of Hindoo land to serve that dual purpose... a Muslim rentier state providing unfettered strategic access to Central Asia, which can also be leveraged for the containment of India whenever necessary.

I believe the Americans will definitely attempt to partition our country once more, in pursuit of the same geopolitical advantages that the British reaped by partitioning us 60 years ago; they will try to break off another piece to replace the utility of the one broken off in 1947, which became gangrenous and failed; and they will do it along religious lines once again, so that Islamism remains a useful nemesis of the Indian union, both within its borders and from outside.

Having achieved an independent Islamic Republic of J&K, the Americans would have no difficulty maintaining access to it. The successor states of Pakistan will be falling over each other to provide a corridor from Karachi through rump-Pakjab, in exchange for American patronage and aid.

Beware. Maybe not all American thinkers have a second partition of India in mind, but you can be sure that people like Brzezinski do... and very likely the incoming SOS Hillary Clinton as well. We all remember Madeleine Albright's autobiography, in the preface of which Bill Clinton ascribed the Chittisinghpora massacre of 36 Sikhs to the "Indian Army". We've all been seeing renewed cartographic aggression against Indian territory on every single Democrat-friendly Western media outlet, from CNN to BBC to MSNBC.

We've also seen a recent Times of India poll-- following 11/26-- wherein 24% of respondents declared their willingness to "give up our interests in Kashmir" in order to stop future terrorist attacks. If one compared these respondents with those opining in favor of the sellout "nuclear deal" brokered by Manmohan Singh , I wonder how much of a correlation one would find. Clearly, a fifth column of deracinated elite Indians who will clamor in favour of America's interests has already been created.

Most of all, India may have given those Americans who seek to rip away Kashmir, a very strong reason to believe that the window of opportunity for carving up our territory is rather urgently limited in scope. Last year, amidst a chorus of scornful psyops from the Western media, we launched the Chandrayaan mission. The chorus fell abruptly and completely silent as the mission demonstrated our capabilities... entering lunar orbit and placing an object at an exact, predetermined location on the moon's surface. The question must have run through the minds of every Zbignew, Albright, Clinton, Brown, Sarkozy and Merkel watching this happen... if those Hindoos can do that today, how long can we count on their rockets not being able to deliver anything they want to any place in the world?

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 26 Dec 2008 22:52

Don't get too complacent. See this statement by that terrorist Geelani:

So surprised is he by the turnout that he even speculates whether non-violence was a factor. “The gun is also an important factor of the (freedom) movement and if this factor falls silent, the movement suffers and it has suffered,” he say

My view is that they actually believed in their "non-violent" bullshit for a while. Now they will probably figure it out.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Dec 2008 22:54

Aroy is a non entity but it is time for people like vir sanghvi to eat humble pie.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 26 Dec 2008 23:08

The mainstream political parties have also toed a “soft separatist” line to woo voters, he thinks, and people fell to this “dirty trick” that included promises of “self rule” and “autonomy.”

Seen from an Indian perspective, this is an alarming situation. The PDP and NC are in a race to woo the separatist tendencies of the population. Is that the message?