Su-30: News and Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Nov 2008 12:03

Flanker cockpit and nose droops down compared to F-15/rafale/EF.
compared to the other three, the WSO has a much better fwd view
and should easily be able to fly and land the machine.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 22 Nov 2008 14:42

George J wrote:You can't have two HMS for the simple reason coz you might send conflicting inputs to the same seeker. The HMS sees what the pilot sees-which is what the OLS-30 sees-which is what R-73 seeker sees. Also remember in a knife fight compartment 1 is doing the flying, the back seat guy acts as a second pair of eyes and and has the most thrilling ride of his life once the TVC join the party.

Yes makes sense. Though two HMS can be used to directly guide the missile seeker but one has only one laser rangefinder on an aircraft so what will do the ranging for the second missile.

Cheers....

George J · Post by **George J** » 23 Nov 2008 00:55

The Sura-K HMS on the MKI.

MFD display on the MKI (See I told you the MKI thinks its the B-2 Spirit) © HAL Promo DVD

HAL's OLS-30 facility, cannot make out if this manufacturing or testing © HAL Promo DVD

kumar_k · Post by **kumar_k** » 23 Nov 2008 23:26

guys here are some pics, i thought u would like.

NIIP Irbis E (Snow Leopard) Prototypes (above, below). This 20 kiloWatt peak power class multimode phased array radar, intended for the Su-35BM and export Flankers, will outrange most Western fighters radars in service. NIIP claim 'F-22 class performance'.

Irbis snow Leopard Components.

An AL-41F supersonic cruise engine.

kumar_k · Post by **kumar_k** » 23 Nov 2008 23:39

Sukhoi Su 32/34 'Fullback'

Russia's New Heavy Strike Fighter

http://www.ausairpower.net/NAPO-Su-34-D ... tor-3S.jpg
Sukhoi Su-34 Fullback Demonstrator

http://www.ausairpower.net/Su-32FN+Su-30MK-1.png

Comparison of Su-34 and Su-30MK. The Su-32/34 series is a new design, despite its reuse of a large number of existing Flanker components. The fuselage is largely new sharing only the aft engine nacelles with the Su-27/30

http://www.ausairpower.net/KNIRTI-L005S ... ture-1.jpg

The KNIRTI SPS-171 / L005S Sorbtsiya-S H/I band ECM pods are paired on the aircraft wingtips.

http://www.ausairpower.net/000-B004-ESA-Su-32FN-1S.jpg
Leninets B005 Multimode Attack Radar phased array. The B004 multimode phased array attack radar is the most advanced strike radar ever designed for a Russian combat aircraft. Unlike the N011M/BARS, the B004 is an optimised bomber radar, similar in many capabilities to the APQ-164 in the B-1B, and sharing the same generation of antenna technology. This image shows a prototype radar, and also exposes the fixed geometry intakes unique to the Su-32/34 series (Sukhoi).

http://www.ausairpower.net/000-Su-32FN-Cockpit-1S.jpg
Access to the cockpit (below) is via the nosewheel well (above). The demonstrator cockpit shows the spacious flight deck, pressured to permit flight up to 30,000 ft without masks. A production cockpit is likely to see the conventional instruments replaced with AMLCDs. Crew access in the Su-27KUB, Su-32MF/FN and Su-34 is via a ladder in the nosewheel well, a feature unique to these fighters. This facilitates forward deployment of these aircraft (Sukhoi)

http://www.ausairpower.net/NAPO-Su-34-D ... pit-1S.jpg
http://www.ausairpower.net/Su-34-Proto-Cockpit-1S.jpg

Fullback's Prototype Cockpit Images.

http://www.ausairpower.net/Su-32FN-Systems-PLA-N.png
http://www.ausairpower.net/Su-32FN-Weps-PLA-N.png

Development Su-32/34 aircraft have been displayed with the full suite of current Russian precision guided munitions. The maritime Su-32FN also also been displayed with the Kh-41 Sunburn.

It is not known whether the Su-34 will use the Shchel series helmet mounted display, or the Thales Topsight which has been integrated on the MiG-29K Fulcrum.
http://www.ausairpower.net/Su-30MKM-Dam ... lon-1S.jpg
Thales Damocles pod pylon on Su-30MKM right inlet station.
http://www.ausairpower.net/Thales-Damocles-Pod-1S.jpg
Thales Damocles electro-optical targeting pod (Wikipedia image).

http://www.ausairpower.net/Su-34-EO-Tar ... tem-1S.jpg
Electro-optical system ventral aperture. With the GNPP KAB-1500L 3,000 lb laser guided bomb on the centreline station

Posting images without the link to the original article amounts to gross copyright violation.
Mods don't have time to clean up each and every one of your posts.
Next time they will simply be deleted. Same goes for the warning about large inline images.
Rahul.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 23 Nov 2008 23:43

nice pics but u forget to give the link (http://www.ausairpower.net/flanker.html) to the source..

kumar_k · Post by **kumar_k** » 23 Nov 2008 23:45

Hey Freinds,
Did u like it??

Reply if u want more information.

Next on the List are :

ZHUK PHAZOTRON AESA Radar.
and
NIIP IRBIS E PESA Radar.

Tell me if should continue posting.

All Credits to
Dr. Carlo Kopp.
Senior Member,
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/%7Ecarlo/AV/8KCAB-2b.jpg
http://www.ausairpower.net/CKopp-Avalon-2001.jpg
http://www.ausairpower.net/CK-Avalon-01-1.jpg

Aditya_M · Post by **Aditya_M** » 23 Nov 2008 23:48

For FSM's sake just link to the actual article instead of posting all text and pics in one post. I have a bloody good connection and yet it was annoying, be considerate to the poor souls who are on limited bandwidth connections, will you?

And Carlo Kopp?

kumar_k · Post by **kumar_k** » 23 Nov 2008 23:54

So no Positive Comments...??

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 24 Nov 2008 00:15

Sigh..kumar, if you search the achives you will find that all of the above have been discussed years ago. It's no use jsut posting some old articles and asking others to comment. You have to post your analysis to be taken seriously.

I suggest you go through the archives first. I really doesn't matter how many posts you make, but what's in the post does matter.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 06 Dec 2008 03:05

narayana wrote:
The IAF was filling low-level gaps in the southern peninsula with the induction of more radars and wanted to jointly manage air space with the civil aviation sector all over the country to enhance domain awareness. The IAF chief said the Tezpur air base would be the first in the eastern region to host the potent Sukhoi-30 MKI fighters.

“The Prime Minister, during his visit to the north-east recently, announced development works, including better roads, advanced landing grounds, etc. In the IAF, we have brought forward some programmes to beef up the infrastructure in the north-east.”

Having resolved the spares issue, the IAF wants Hindustan Aeronautical Limited to produce around 22 to 23 aircraft annually to speed up their deployment as against the 15 it made this year.
.

Having resolved the spares issue, the IAF wants Hindustan Aeronautical Limited to produce around 22 to 23 aircraft annually to speed up their deployment as against the 15 it made this year.
.

Isnt It Sweet .lets go for 300 MKI by 2012 that will make a formidable IAF,will give conifdence to meet chinis Eye to Eye

Narayan, sorry to ask this but where does the above article come from and can you provide a link to it ? 22-23 aircraft a year would be a very positive step.

zotiraki · Post by **zotiraki** » 09 Dec 2008 18:25

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum and have been trying to nail down the comms on the Su-30MKI. For data link, I have found a number of references that indicate it is the TDS-2, which I think is a component of the KDIUE. So maybe HAL integrated this data link with the INCOM 1210A (which numerous sources indicate is on the IAF Su-30MKIs). My understanding is that the TDS-2 allows for inter aircraft data transfer, and command and control such that a flight leader could vector various aircraft as he sees fit. I also found that the Su-30MKI comes with a Ground Control Station that allows for monitoring of aircraft "health" and also vectoring aircraft based on ground and air radar inputs. Anybody know if the IAF has these? Would also be interested in which intercom is installed on the aircraft. I would think the INCOM 1210A, if truly an integrated system like the KDIUE would include an intercom function, but can find no info on that. If the Janes reference is correct, that the INCOM has VHF/UHF only, I'd be a little surprised. Where's the HF? Anybody help?

George J wrote:This is some old school BRF jingo stuff.

What is the data link on the MKI?

On the archived Red Flag thread, Maitya had posted a really good link to the K-DIAE/K-DIUE sytem from OEM. http://polyot.atnn.ru/prod/prod_04_02_en.phtml

The system comprises of:
The complex comprises:
# 2 VHF-UHF radios
# HF radio
# Data transmission equipment
# Intercom equipment
# Built-in computer
# Integrated control panel
# Control unit
# Voltage changer
The Second link he posted was April 2007 Janes MKI communication suite link which says:
POLYOT Research and Production Company produces the communications system for the Su-30 MKI, comprising:Simultaneous voice and data communication between air and ground, using HF, VHF and UHF frequencies. Automatic data transfer of targeting data. Anti-jamming capabilities. Two-position control of communications and intercommunication functions. Emergency frequency monitoring. Automated BITE.
HAL says the INCOM1210A consists of:
INCOM-1210A-Integrated Radio Communication System-ECCM Facility-Communication in AM/FM/Data/ECCM Mode
The same Janes in May 2006 describes this as:
The INCOM-1210A is an airborne, secure, jam-resistant V/UHF communication system designed for air-to-air and air-to-ground voice/data communications. The system incorporates ECCM for tactical communications. INCOM-1210A is compact and of moderate weight, suitable for all fighter applications and compatible with MIL-STD-1553B and ARINC 429 data transfer.
So if the MKI carries the K-DIUE then it cannot carry the INCOM 1210A. The 1210A is a DARIN-II/Mig-27 development and never made it to the MKI, even though it is referred as an Indian component on the MKI. Or does it carry both? Or does it carry some of each?

Now this WHOLE discussion is about the data links on the MKI. So that MKI can talk to each other. When the Phalcon comes that has a whole different set of problems. For any a/c to see what the Phalcon see's and know what the Phalcon knows, it needs compatible equipment be it the MKI, Mig-29, Mirage, Jag, Tejas. So what will this "common" Desi LINK-16 be? For that you will have to wait till AI09 I guess.

Jagan:
Nope its old age. I can't even remember that its 3 front, 4 back. It's not a new development you can see pics of it on the Vayu Sena MKI page.

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Dec 2008 18:27

I also found that the Su-30MKI comes with a Ground Control Station that allows for monitoring of aircraft "health" and also vectoring aircraft based on ground and air radar inputs.

IIRC, we had integrated a similar system made by SA(??) into the MKI.

George J · Post by **George J** » 21 Dec 2008 08:17

zotiraki wrote:Hey guys, I'm new to this forum and have been trying to nail down the comms on the Su-30MKI.......... I also found that the Su-30MKI comes with a Ground Control Station that allows for monitoring of aircraft "health" and also vectoring aircraft based on ground and air radar inputs. Anybody know if the IAF has these?

If you want to be a serious student of the MKI then you need to know the Vayu-Sena MKI page by heart.

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html wrote:...For acquiring predictive maintenance capability, the IAF and Rosoboronexport FSUE have joined forces with South Africa 's Aerospace Monitoring And Systems (Pty) Ltd (AMS). Predictive maintenance means the on- and off-board processing of aircraft sub-systems data, resulting in an accurate, conclusive indication of the health and usage status of various airborne systems. The Su-30MKI Mk3's on-board health-and-usage monitoring system (HUMS) not only monitors almost every aircraft system and sub-system, including the avionics sub-systems, it can also act as an engineering data recorder. For the Su-30MKI Mk3, AMS was contracted for providing total HUMS solutions, starting with definition of the IAF's qualitative requirements, followed by systems provision (development and implementation), integration and support phases.

Also:
1) Don't quote the entire post when replying, quote what is relevant and if what is relevant is longer than what you have to say then perhaps you don't much to add.

2) Jane's has been wrong and is wrong on a lot of stuff even now. So if you think you have a better source of info please do share with us. It really helps us all in learning whats out there.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 22 Dec 2008 10:56

How many MKIs do we have now? Have the replacements for the Ks arrived? How many MKIs has HAL produced till now?

vishals · Post by **vishals** » 25 Dec 2008 13:17

Can't say how reliable is this newspaper but AOC-in-C Western Air Command, AM Barbora says we have 100 MKI at the moment:

"SU 30 MKI, which is considered as the most powerful of the fourth-generation aircraft,” Barbora stated, adding, “The IAF is intending to induct 200 such aircraft and it currently has 100 of them.”

source: http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/det ... c2508/at01

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 25 Dec 2008 13:46

I am not good at this but is not information about comms of premier IAF aircraft, very sensitive info?

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 25 Dec 2008 14:25

The present Su30 strength of IAF can be anywhere from 80 to 100 nos. Various newspaper reports says it to be at 4 sq.

According to HAL production plan 34nos Su30 were to be produced by FY2007-08. This combined with 50nos direct from Russia will make it 84nos. But of this 18nos K version were withdrawn from service. This may have been replaced by the MKI version by Russia by now.
Further 15nos Su30 MKIs were to be produced by HAL in FY2008-09. At least some must have joined by now.

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 25 Dec 2008 18:06

100 MKI = 5 Sq

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Dec 2008 18:16

which is the 5th sqdn ?

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 25 Dec 2008 18:37

dont know yet, it has not been mention publically

i am going by barbora statement of 100 mki in service

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 25 Dec 2008 18:39

Rahul M wrote:which is the 5th sqdn ?

Which is the fourth one? Is no 8 confirmed?

Cheers....

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Dec 2008 18:41

yes neeraj long back.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 25 Dec 2008 20:40

Rahul M wrote:yes neeraj long back.

So is now a good time to move the 18 Ks away from the unused runway? At least park them someplace covered?

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 05 Jan 2009 17:01

Static display pics of the Su-30 MKIs
http://www.flickr.com/photos/70523351@N00/392105164/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/70523351@N00/392105074/

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Jan 2009 19:16

Vikram_S wrote:dont know yet, it has not been mention publically

i am going by barbora statement of 100 mki in service

actually, I've heard from some knowledgeable people that a 5th sqn would go online along with the 4th one. good to see barbora confirming it.

keep in mind that the rhinos converted in 2005, that too from russian supplied planes.
HAL production from SKD started in 2004, @ 15/annum on average there should be around 50-60 HAL aircraft by now, probably a bit more.
assuming 32 original russian supplied a/c the numbers do add up.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Jan 2009 15:34

IAF should consider using SB001-SB018 for air to air refueling duties. Given that the number of tankers is too few the squadron can be a stop gap arrangement, albeit an expensive one.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 06 Jan 2009 16:25

Aditya G wrote:IAF should consider using SB001-SB018 for air to air refueling duties. Given that the number of tankers is too few the squadron can be a stop gap arrangement, albeit an expensive one.

I think they have already been returned after getting flogged for lot of hours.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 18 Jan 2009 15:45

Rahul M wrote:
Vikram_S wrote:dont know yet, it has not been mention publically

i am going by barbora statement of 100 mki in service
actually, I've heard from some knowledgeable people that a 5th sqn would go online along with the 4th one. good to see barbora confirming it.

A little birdie says that a new squadron number has been raised from scratch (the 5th SU-30 squadron) by the number of 31. That is, No. 31 Squadron. No more details yet...

-Vivek

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 18 Jan 2009 20:19

Vivek Ji,
Shouldn't that be priviledged information?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jan 2009 20:29

what is the status india-genous production of MKI..there were conflicting reports that we gave away the sole rights on the MKI. there was a possibility of using our composite facilities and augment their setup for MKIs as well to keep at par with LCA skins. is that still on?

Russians claim on Zhuk-AE.. whats the plan for aesa-ing ramba?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Jan 2009 20:34

fanne ji, of course it is !
now you are part of that privileged group !

seriously speaking this is obscure info but not ultra secret.

vivek, apparently there used to be a No. 31 sqdn long back. if they don't rename it, we will have both the big cat species roaming the Indian skies again !

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Units/Squadrons.html

saik sahib, one of my posts earlier in this page may answer some of your questions. AFA radar upg on the mki goes I think it is highly unlikely anytime before 2015.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jan 2009 20:43

dam... rahul ji you were so quick to post reply. i actually wanted to delete the post cause i got the answers (getting). thankx.

George J · Post by **George J** » 18 Jan 2009 22:58

SaiK wrote:what is the status india-genous production of MKI..there were conflicting reports that we gave away the sole rights on the MKI.......

1) Sukhoi Engine Production Facility (Al-31FP) came online in 2004-4005 in HAL Koraput.
2) The BARS RSLU production facility came online last year in HAL Hyd.
3) IAPO techs came down to India to be trained on the engineering and technical aspects of the composites that are used on the Su-30MK platform (MKM, MKA etc).

HAL Ozhar is transitioning from CKD to SKD when more and more stuff gets online.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Jan 2009 23:34

thanks george. the deep license is still on fully knocked down components for AL31fps or we get to do the hot sections of the core turbofans at home? just wondering how much it is not screw driver.

sam_kamath · Post by **sam_kamath** » 18 Jan 2009 23:37

George J wrote:
SaiK wrote:what is the status india-genous production of MKI..there were conflicting reports that we gave away the sole rights on the MKI.......
1) Sukhoi Engine Production Facility (Al-31FP) came online in 2004-4005 in HAL Koraput.
2) The BARS RSLU production facility came online last year in HAL Hyd.
3) IAPO techs came down to India to be trained on the engineering and technical aspects of the composites that are used on the Su-30MK platform (MKM, MKA etc).

HAL Ozhar is transitioning from CKD to SKD when more and more stuff gets online.

some unconfirmed reports talk about much upgraded Vetrivale and Ks 172 mating ....
please watch out at the AI09

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 19 Jan 2009 01:19

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Rahul M wrote: actually, I've heard from some knowledgeable people that a 5th sqn would go online along with the 4th one. good to see barbora confirming it.
A little birdie says that a new squadron number has been raised from scratch (the 5th SU-30 squadron) by the number of 31. That is, No. 31 Squadron. No more details yet...

-Vivek

dang cool to know that! - 31 was a MiG-23BN unit before it was disbanded. With the last BN unit, 221 Squadron almost on the way out, it is only fair that one of the older BN units is ressurrected. great to have this news.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 19 Jan 2009 22:35

Indian Air Force gets its first woman navigator.

New Delhi (IANS): Seventy-five years after its formation, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has finally broken the gender barrier with a young woman reaching out to the skies as its first woman flying officer. Kavita Barala logs in another first this Jan 26 when, in a moment for posterity, she salutes India's first woman president Pratibha Patil.

Barala, who is from Jaipur, is determined to add more firsts to her career. The determined young officer has her sights set on learning to navigate the frontline fighter jet Sukhoi-30 and becoming the first female co-pilot of a multi-role aircraft.

Barala's story is one of grit and determination. Though the choice of becoming a navigator in the IAF was open to women since they were inducted into the force a decade-and-a-half ago, no one had opted for the branch till now.

"When I joined the Air Force Academy at Dundigal (Andhra Pradesh), I came to know that no woman has opted to become a navigator, so I decided to take the plunge. I completed my training successfully and became a navigator," Barala told IANS.

The navigator's job is challenging. The navigator has to be aware of the aircraft's position at all times. The responsibilities include planning the journey, advising the pilot of the estimated timing to destinations while en route, and ensuring that hazards are avoided.

Standing at a mere 5.3 feet, Barala personifies the generation of Indian women who want to fly high in the sky.

She completed her training as navigator in 2008 for AN-32 transport aircraft and is currently undergoing training for navigating during bombing and relief operations at the Agra air base.

"Once my training is over I would like to get training for navigating Sukhoi-30," said Barala, who is in her early 20s.

After she trains to navigate Sukhoi multi-role fighter aircraft, she will become the first Indian woman to sit as co-pilot in the cockpit of the fighter jet.

Barala's decision has inspired other women to follow suit. Two women in her batch have opted for navigation.

"After me, two more women have opted to be navigators," Barala said.

The IAF currently has 784 women officers who work in all branches, barring the fighter stream.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 25 Jan 2009 05:03

email from Sayan Majumdar

Do note that already the Su-30MKI air dominance fighters are being distributed between predominantly air defence (No. 8 & 24) and strike (No. 20, 30, 31) squadrons, a pattern likely to continue for all other inducted types

sandesh · Post by **sandesh** » 25 Jan 2009 09:17

I think they have already been returned after getting flogged for lot of hours.

I got this information on IAF SU-30Ks recently on a forum I visit. The man is a Russian aeronautical engineer. I asked him if these airframes were to be upgraded to SU-30KN standards and sold to Belarus AF.

Su-30K were returned to Russia in 2008 no new info about this.

My father was on one of aircraft manufacturing plants two weeks ago, all its territory has been ocupped by airplanes of family of a Su-27 expecting repair/diagnostic/modernization (more than 50 airplanes). There he saw 2 Су-34 which were at war in Georgia on one there were signs about 8 combat missions, on other 9.

He was posted at Dabolim and even posted pics of Indian Navy Tu's & IL's from his personal collection.