India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

[Div]

Excerpt from interview of Chief of Army Staff, General Deepak Kapoor PVSM, AVSM, SM, VSM, ADC in Force Mag

Pinaka rocket system has not yet been inducted into the army. It is in an advanced stage of trial evaluation. The Trajectory Correction System is still under development.

Did someone in the IA get handed an IMI brochure?

Seriously, I don't understand why the Indian Military establishment feels that it too good to follow, what seems to be a common course of action in countries with successful military industrial complexes.

- Military starts with acheivable requirements
- Places an initial order with these acheivable features
- Defense contractor uses the profits from initial order to work on improvements
- Military places bigger order of improved version, upgrades older versions
- Export opportunities come up

End result = happy customers and $$$

How long has the Pinaka been in "IA trial"?

[Vikram_S]

1 regiment of pinaka is in service
2 regiment each were ordered from LT and TATA 2-3 year back and to be complete in 4-5 years, so even that is going on

even rocket production is going on:
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/ind ... 22605.html

but at same time, army is trying to make sure rocket in pinaka have TCS by time regiment are inducted + more range

MOD press release also mention Pinaka upgrade
http://www.webnewswire.com/node/447645

gurmeet kanwal in article says pinaka serial production is also cleared at some huge amount

http://www.kanglaonline.com/index.php?t ... w&kid=1294

Extended range (ER) rockets are being introduced for the 122 mm Grad MBRL that has been in service for over three decades. The ER rockets will enhance the weapon system’s range from 22 to about 40 km. A Rs 5,000 crore contract has also been signed for the serial production of the Pinaka MBRL weapon system, another DRDO project plagued by time delays and completed with help from Larsen and Toubro and the Tatas.

so pinaka induction is going on

[Div]

Hmmm...that is not what the Chief of Army Staff has apparently said, as per the above post.

Pinaka rocket system has not yet been inducted into the army. It is in an advanced stage of trial evaluation. The Trajectory Correction System is still under development.

[Vikram_S]

the army chief word are in context of overall picture.

take look at what various army chief have said on arjun over years - "almost ready we will induct it", "more details from next test". but point has always been that 124 were ordered already, no. beyond that is what has been in doubt.

point is to see all news report and build up real picture of viewpoint on ground. here there is confirmed report of first pinaka regiment operational (see BR site) which was also used for test unit.

and then we see there is confirmed order for 2 regiment of pinaka from TATA and L&T already. this will take time to make operational also. order is in 2006 for final delivery by 2009.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/tata- ... cher/1662/

this means by 2009 all Pinaka launcher to be delivered. 1 regiment = 18 launcher, so 40 launcher each = 2 regiment from each company.

in 2008, there is report of first batch of Pinaka rockets delivered. why will this be delivered if there is no Pinaka regiment?

then there is the issue of further upgrade of Pinaka with TCS. in 2008 late, there is more report of Pinaka trial.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports/3961

what Army chief is saying is true in some "sense" if we see all this.

he is talking of pinaka being upgraded further with new TCS rocket /range and then getting these in service and is talking of that being operational.

but basic Pinaka is certainly on order (see order for TATA/L&T + OFB rocket) and gurmeet kanwal report is clear that army wants Pinaka serial production (5000 crore is serial production order because TATA/L&T order was just 200 crore)

when this series production starts that is when mass prduction of TCS rocket is also required.

[Vikram_S]

Read entire report of rocket handover:

Pinaka Rockets handed over to the Army

February 29th, 2008 - 7:05 pm ICT by admin - Send to a friend:

New Delhi, Feb 29 (ANI): After prolonged and untiring efforts, the indigenously developed Pinaka multiple barrel rocket launcher developed by the DRDO, was formally handed over to the Indian Army today.

The Vice-Chief of Army Staff, Lt. General Milan Lalitkumar Naidu, accepted the first consignment on behalf of the Army.

Sudipta Ghosh, Chairman and DG Ordnance Factories presided over the function held at the Ordnance Factory Chanda (OFCH), Bhadravati, in Maharashtras Chandrapur district.

The Ordnance Factory will supply 300 Pinaka Rockets to the Army in the first year, and 1,000 rockets in 2009.

Pinaka, which is fired from, multi-barrel rocket launcher (MBRL), has an ideal range of 38 km.

The development of the Pinaka began in 1983. The system has a maximum range of 39-40 km and fires a salvo of 12 HE rockets in under 40 seconds, with a beaten zone of 3.9 square kilometres.

The system is mounted on a Tatra truck for mobility. A battery of Pinaka consists of six launcher systems, six loader cum replenishment vehicles, three replenishment vehicles, a command post vehicle with fire control computer and meteorological radar. (ANI)

so we see pinaka launchers are delivered by 2009 and pinaka basic rocket (Without TCS) has also gone into rate production (300 round in 2008, 1000 in 2009)

now each pinaka regiment have (18*12)*2 number of rocket = 432 rocket

above production number = 1300 rocket (300 in 2008 and 1000 in 2009)

that is 3 regiment worth of rocket by 2009 so obviously why will OFB produce so many rocket for 3 regiment by 2009 if there is no order!!

[Hiten]

Express Buzz - DARE’s indoor antenna range facility

The Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), a laboratory of DRDO based in Bangalore has developed an indoor antenna test range facility to characterise both the electronic support measure (ESM) and electronic counter measure (ECM) antennas, a facility which is the first of its kind in India.

This facility covers a wide range for pattern characterisation with a unique capability to measure direction and finding accuracy too.

It is also capable of characterising antennas for radiation patterns, beam peak, beam with width and directivity.

The facility receives and transmits electronic warning antenna signals, similar to sun rays and is named ‘Udayakiran.’ A few days ago this lab had been successful in indigenously upgrading the avionics system for MiG 27 aircraft.

India develops its own anechoic chamber...w00t

[k prasad]

Hitenbhai,

What made u think that we don't already have indigenous anechoic chambers??

[Katare]

Vikram,
We all know the media news articles that you have posted that's why the Army chief's statement is such a shocker. During Kargil, a good 10 years back it was claimed by some that couple of Pinaka launchers were deployed so now the system is "battle tested" etc. It's been 10 year since Army is inducting/trialing Pinaka but they still classify it as in “advance stage of user trial” while Smerch is classified as inducted. Pretty much everyone here was under impression that Pinaka is done deal with successful induction and integration in army.

Like it or not Pinaka has gone exactly the Arjun way. There are orders, upgrades and trials nothing beyond that at least until now.

He has also written off Akash tersely.

In a saner system/country, 100s of Arjuns and thousands of Pinaka rockets would have been inducted and DRDO would have been working on third generation upgrades for both products right about now.

[A Sharma]

DRDO contributions in Armament Technology (Source: Swagat, December 2008)

According to above 2 regiments of Pinaka are in order and one in service

[A Sharma]

Not sure if posted before
Nation First

[Rahul M]

X-posting :

The member is back from his sojourn to the heart of India's aerospace industry.
The following are excerpts from his email :
(There are some good and bad news with the bad news presented up front, in accordance with the email ordering. The highlights are mine)

Unfortunately, unlike the guys at NAL, IISC, ASTE and CABS, who turned out to be very proactive in their discussions with yours truly, the guys at the GTRE were not overly helpful to my queries. The best I could get out of that place other than actually seeing the engines was to get the lead guy to accept a written version of my queries as a favor. he says he will get back to me later. When I get the email from him, I will pass you a copy of his replies.

Nevertheless, here's some of my personal observations of the place:
a) Compared to the other institutions I have mentioned above, GTRE was almost deserted. No sign of life in that place compared to ASTE, for example.
b) The people working inside were almost lethargic as far as my interactions went. (Again, relatively speaking. NAL EAD (Experimental Aerodynamics Division) was buzzing with activity from mini UAV designs to Saras models being tested in large facilities)
c) The Kaveri engine is beautiful and an engineering masterpiece given the cost at which it has been made. According to the folks in the labs, they are now "within a few percent" of the required thrust levels
d) The Naval version of the engine is going ahead nicely. In fact, I saw more Navy guys at the place than IAF guys!
e) LCA integration remains a paper dream at this point. No fixed dates for any goals at that place. Before going there I had been told to expect this, but it was nevertheless disappointing.
f) SC blades still remains the lynchpin of the design. The Turbine temperatures remains limited until the issues with the SC blades are resolved, which in turn limits the thrust. As mentioned above, several labs are apparently working on the SC technology but again no fixed dates for anything.

The technical stuff in the questionnaire I submitted to the head honcho at GTRE will contain the answers to what the members at BR want to know, but it might be a week before I hear from my friend so don't hold your breath yet. Disappointing, I know, but that is the definition of the place as far as the guys at NAL, IISC etc think of GTRE.

Anyway, enough of the bad news. Now for some brief good news from the other Labs at NAL, ASTE and CABS:

a) LCA making good progress and experimental program to accelerate in the next two months.
b) Amazing (indeed groundbreaking is a better term) progress in Hypersonics both at IISC and NAL EAD. The HSTDV program has been made feasible is all I can say for now. Full flight test in 3 months. Modified Agni-I boost to 40km and then a 20 second burn using hydrogen injection across strut based injectors. Wind tunnel tests completed.
c) Pathbreaking advances in plasma drag reduction techniques (what we read briefly in the news etc) that reduce missile drag by 30% during reentry using the most simplest of techniques. In addition, the temperatures at the surface are reduced dramatically so that heat shield no longer needs to be as bulky as before. Reduced weight as a result leading to dramatic new values for the missile fuel-mass values.
d) Active noise control helmets for the LCA under design. These will cut out the engine background noise completely so that the pilot can listen to AWACS controls etc more clearly in the thick of combat.
e) Significant progress on the CABS AEW radar electronics. Aircraft integration studies underway.
f) Micro-UAV designs being studied at NAL for the Army.
g) Chetan Helicopter undergoing flight tests.
h) Some activity seen on the Avro "Hack" with regard to LCA MMR. (Though that was out of bounds for me, so not many more details here)
i) New self compensating aero-nozzles for SLVs and Multi-stage missiles. Reduces overall requirement for different stages with different nozzle area ratios and increases fuel carriage and so shows exponential increase in range for the same design sizes. In wind tunnels right now awaiting flight tests.
k) Base bleed studies underway for reduced missile drag. Also in wind tunnels at NAL EAD.
l) A new fixed wing design aircraft being designed at NAL. Very hush-hush, I am told. They wouldn't even tell me what the aircraft type was!!
g) NAL designers are talking of a new large body civilian airliner type aircraft project about to begin.
h) NAL collaborating with GTRE now for advances in afterburning engine nozzles. Also, NAL now beginning studies in turbine blade perfromance. They seem to be bypassing GTRE on a number of issues. This is something that became increasingly obvious after a few hours of talks with the people there.

[Hiten]

Hitenbhai,

What made u think that we don't already have indigenous anechoic chambers??

I stand corrected
A little googling revealved that indegenous anechoic chambers had been designed and developed in India

they still seem to be be importing some of them though

Also learnt to take Indian journos article with a pinch of salt

Thanks for pointing it out

[Vikram_S]

@katare

please read report and see what army chief is saying.
he is saying Pinaka new series is under development ("is in advanced trials").
he is also saying that Pinaka orders placed is not operational (see report of rockets being delivered and 40 launchers is to be delivered by TATA and L&T by 2009).

so why is there complain and say this is Arjuin case because that is different totally .
in that ARJUN is basically not meeting basic idea of what ARMY want of MBT (small size) even if ARJUN is basically good tank.

in this case army has already got pinaka order made on LT, TATA, OFB and improvement is also done at same time for next version (range, TCS) and future new MBRL with longer range.
already 3 regiment of PINAKA is confirmed order when there is only 8 regiment of BM-21 and next version of PINAKA will be on TCS and longer range.

@ akash also thre is not big worry, IAF has gone for 2 squadron of missile with more development version having more orders likely (indiastrategic magazine)

[ajay_ijn]

EADS Defence plans industrial base in India

NEWPORT, Wales, Jan 13 (Reuters) - EADS' (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) defence unit is set to announce a new operation in India, possibly via an acquisition, as it targets further expansion overseas, a senior company executive said on Tuesday.

"We are preparing to set up an industrial base in India -- we have a dedicated team working on it," the French group's defence and security chief Stefan Zoller told reporters, adding that the group was in advanced talks.

"The most booming market for defence that has not already been captured is India ... also there are many skilled engineers in India," he said.

[Hiten]

A couple of weeks before the pay hike was apporved, I'd wished and posted about it and also hoped that this hike be made subject to the Armed forces fullfilling certain requisites. For the Army, this is exacatly what I'd hoped they be made to comply with

A last bid to save the Arjun main battle tank project

The Indian Army will conduct head-to-head 'comparative trials' of the indigenous Arjun main battle tank (MBT), under development for over three decades, and the Russian-built T-90 tanks in June.

may be related. may not be. but it is happening

A very negative vibe given by journo. But who care about the journo, as long as the trials are fair

[aditp]

A couple of weeks before the pay hike was apporved, I'd wished and posted about it and also hoped that this hike be made subject to the Armed forces fullfilling certain requisites. For the Army, this is exacatly what I'd hoped they be made to comply with

A last bid to save the Arjun main battle tank project

The Indian Army will conduct head-to-head 'comparative trials' of the indigenous Arjun main battle tank (MBT), under development for over three decades, and the Russian-built T-90 tanks in June.

may be related. may not be. but it is happening

A very negative vibe given by journo. But who care about the journo, as long as the trials are fair

"FAIR" - thats the keyword. From various online sources, it seems the comparision is likely to be a tactical evaluation (where competing tank crews are given a specific objecive - say capturing a hill xxx Kms away). This brings the cew expertise into play and generally decides the winner. Now, the T-90 has been in service for a couple of years now. God knows, how much practice the 43rd armoured is allowed with the Arjun's. Though many of us would like to see the Arjun score full marks, expectations should be modest at best - The DGMF is hell bent on making Bhishma finally kill Arjun.

[narmad]

Aditp : The DGMF is hell bent on making Bhishma finally kill Arjun

Interesting

[Katare]

@katare

please read report and see what army chief is saying.
he is saying Pinaka new series is under development ("is in advanced trials").
he is also saying that Pinaka orders placed is not operational (see report of rockets being delivered and 40 launchers is to be delivered by TATA and L&T by 2009).

so why is there complain and say this is Arjuin case because that is different totally .
in that ARJUN is basically not meeting basic idea of what ARMY want of MBT (small size) even if ARJUN is basically good tank.

in this case army has already got pinaka order made on LT, TATA, OFB and improvement is also done at same time for next version (range, TCS) and future new MBRL with longer range.
already 3 regiment of PINAKA is confirmed order when there is only 8 regiment of BM-21 and next version of PINAKA will be on TCS and longer range.

@ akash also thre is not big worry, IAF has gone for 2 squadron of missile with more development version having more orders likely (indiastrategic magazine)

Vikram,

You are making up things, he simply said that Pinaka has not been inducted and it is in advance stage of user evaluation. TCS is under development. Same status as Arjun, orders for two regiments placed almost 10 years back, several tanks produced but none inducted so far.

Why do you keep reporting that X number of order placed with y and Z or a new generation Pinaka is under development. No one's questioning that it's all a general knowledge posted and discussed month/yesrs back.

[aditp]

Aditp : The DGMF is hell bent on making Bhishma finally kill Arjun

Interesting

I somehow just feel, DGMF is some sort of modern-day-mutated Duryodhan. You see Project Bhim is already dead (though Govt to be blamed for this one)

[Vikram_S]

katare you seem to have problem with reading comprehension or are just plain foolish- think of that before arrogantly saying that i am making things up.

1.
i know so called force journalists and other DDM person. it is common practise in industry to edit interview to 1-2 pages for print issue. which is reason why it is important to see each line statement of ARMY CHIEF or NAVY CHIEF before making wrong statement saying this is like ARJUN project or "terse replies"

2.
before saying further ignorance i would ask you to kindly contact TATA also LT representative to get information about perspective planning. both unit have been told for long term PINAKA production. this is also common information in CII presentation made in MUMBAI in 2008.

3.
also kindly find from ARTY OFFICERs about PINAKA status. you will again know reality. for information, PINAKA is acknowledged to be future basis of INDIAN MBRL unit. there is no complaint about it (in contrast of ARJUN)

4.
i have already proven using links and cold logic that 2 regiment of PINAKA is confirmed order and it will be operational once all unit arrive and ammunition is given by OFB. both date is in 2009. this will give 3 complete regiment of MARK 1 PINAKA.

5.
situation is nowhere comparable to ARJUN because ARJUN only 124 tank is on order compared to over 1500 tank requirement of MBT required by INDIAN ARMY. unlike ARJUN tank which is not meeting IA requirement of low weight MBT, such is not the problem with PINAKA.

6.
in PINAKA case 3 regiment of MK1 VERSION is already given clear by ARMY with only 8 REGIMENT OF BM-21 needing replacement
And 2-3 regiment of SMERCH also ordered. So called evaluation is on for MK2 version and only 3 regiments are left if overall MBRL raising are seen for replacement!

7.with MANPOWER Raising and CAPEX limitation, and BM-21 NEW AMMO (LRAR) INDIAN ARMY is afforded to wait for next order of x regiment of PINAKA in next plan.

you can get this information ALSO from contact ARTY officers.

ARMY is not going to get hundred of PINAKA or MBRL as you made claim in previous post.

ARMY has strict laid out plan to divide in tube and MBRL ARTY and manpower/Capex issue with raising additional missile/rocket regiment in parallel. this make PINAKA acquisition go in blocks, with 3 regiment per plan, funding given. even SMERCH is following same plan.

8.
So UNLIKE ARJUN tank which is cut at MK1 (also with very small production - 124 tank at 2000+ tank inventory), PINAKA has full 3 regiment of production (1/3 of numbers of existing 8+ regiment MBRL ) and MK2 is in development supported by ARMY for future 3-4 regiment.

9.
articles provided were for education of members here who would be interested on support information. IF you think you know ALL then kindly do not read.

10.
articles also support fact of PINAKA being made operational in 2009 year as basic ammunition is ordered in BULK from OFB. for your information, SMERCH acquired from Russians is also with same procurement (advanced ROCKET was acquired later).

11. ORDER for PINAKA was not placed 10 year back like in ARJUN but in 2006 with firm commitment of delivery by 2009. this is after TATA launcher and LT launcher was in evaluation and 1 design is chosen for standard production in both companies.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/tata- ... cher/1662/

kindly do not reply to my post as you have very little awareness of current status about PINAKA project and on given correct information you accuse others of "making items".

Vikram,

You are making up things, he simply said that Pinaka has not been inducted and it is in advance stage of user evaluation. TCS is under development. Same status as Arjun, orders for two regiments placed almost 10 years back, several tanks produced but none inducted so far.
Why do you keep reporting that X number of order placed with y and Z or a new generation Pinaka is under development. No one's questioning that it's all a general knowledge posted and discussed month/yesrs back.

[Vikram_S]

this is information on MK2 version of PINAKA. for non flaming people, see requirement of ARMY mentioned and interest given for further orders( more 50,000 rockets, the article is saying launcher, it is actually rocket, 5000 rocket already ordered)

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ka/284658/

ARDE looks to improve on multi-barrel rocket launcher Pinaka

Posted: Mar 15, 2008 at 0020 hrs IST

Pune, March 14 After successfully developing for the armed forces an indigenously built Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launcher (MBRL) system that can fire rockets within a range of 39-40 km, the Pune-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) is already gearing up to go a step further. The ARDE is currently engaged in developing the ‘intelligent’ version of the Pinaka, which will be more advanced in terms of its accuracy, guidance and control.

“While the rockets currently in use are essentially free-flying ‘area weapons’, there is a rising demand for systems with more accuracy, but with least collateral damage. Recognising this need, the ARDE is developing a variant of the Pinaka which will be more accurate at the same time enable complete autonomy of the rocket,” said Director ARDE, Surendra Kumar adding that command control, communication and computerisation will all contribute to the ‘intelligence’ of the system.

“The Pinaka can fire rockets within a range of 39-40 km, in a salvo of 12 rockets with 1.2 tons of high explosives within 40 seconds, its accuracy being less than 1.5 percent of its maximum range.

However, the new system will enable better accuracy within 30 metres, thus enabling the annihilation of precise targets,” said Kumar.

According to ARDE officials, the intelligent system will be able to control the rocket using external technological links. “Under the new system, the intelligence of the rocket stands to be enhanced as well. The rocket will possess sensors to orient its precision to lock onto the target, change the course of direction if found deviating from the target as well as decide whether the target is to be destroyed or not,” said Kumar.

The Pinaka during its development stage had made way into the Kargil operations, when a single barrel rocket launcher (SBRL) system was used for the first time. “After testing the efficacy of the warhead and its capability of meeting the range, in addition to army inputs, it was evolved into the multi-barrel rocket launcher,” said Kumar.

“The army had placed an order of 5,000 rocket launchers of which the first lot 108 Pinakas were handed over this February. They have indicated a requirement for another 50,000 of such systems,” said Dr K M Rajan, Group Director, FIE.

“This new system, slated to be the latest upgraded version of the Pinaka, will however be given a different name,” he added.

The new system with its limited range and least collateral damage will also enable it to be used in urban and semi-urban areas as compared to the current rocket systems which are largely confined to usage in the border areas.

The ‘intelligent’ system would be developed in three-to-five years while the production would commence in the seventh or eight year, said Kumar.

[Katare]

No need to get aggressive and rude.

Why do you keep repeating the same old things that have been known to everyone here for years. These things were posted at BRF and discussed in details when they were published. The new information is that Army Chief doesn't consider Pinaka as inducted but as in trial/development phase.

Watch your language now!

[uddu]

Cool down dudes. The Pinaka Vanila version is inducted and already under production.
Link

Pinaka,the name denotes the Shiv Dhanush,the bow and arrow, in Sita 's home of epic Ramayana. Pinaka is rocket developed indigenously by DRDO which is fired from a multi barrel rocket launcher.Name Pinaka has been given by former President of India Abdul Kalam who was Advisor and Secretary to develope DRDO to prepare India indigineously developed Defence equipments,war heads.

The
handing over ceremony will be held at the Ordnance factory, Bhadravati in the presence of vice-chief of Indian Army, Lt Gen Milan Lalitkumar Naidu.

The indigenously developed Pinaka had undergone a series of successful tests before being finally inducted in to the army.

The ordnance factory will supply about 300 Pinaka rockets to the Army in the first year and will increase it to about 1,000 subsequently, defence sources said.

The ones the Army chief mentioned is the longer range version of the Pinaka rockets. It's not in service with the Army. The user trial of the longer range version (let's call it Pinaka-L) was conducted last October. The induction is in 2009.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=da4_1218735723
From the video it can be seen that the WLR was also tested.

After the Pinaka-L's induction, they may be developing a new rocket system similar to the Smerch for the Army. The recent test by Army and DRDO of the Smerch may be to test the new trajectory correction system/study the system or even to test the new 300mm rocket.

Link

[ajay_ijn]

Undisclosed Australian firm to take up to five Dornier 228 NGs

German firm RUAG Aerospace has secured a commitment for up to five Dornier 228 NG turboprops from an undisclosed Australian customer.

The Australian firm becomes RUAG's third customer for the re-vamped 19-seat turboprop, joining an undisclosed Asian company and Mexico's Air Cancun.

A RUAG spokeswoman gives few details about the deal, saying only that an undisclosed Australian customer has committed to the type and that it placed an order for one aircraft, plus four options, last month.

This takes RUAG to a total of eight aircraft commitments, plus five options to date. The Asian airline has a six-strong purchase agreement for the 228, while Air Cancun will take one firm and one optioned 228.

RUAG has revived the 228 programme with production at the Oberpfaffenhofen facility near Munich, while the aircraft's fuselage, wings and empennage are manufactured by Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics.

Final assembly and outfitting will take place at the Munich base with the first items expected to be delivered to Germany during the first quarter of this year.

[Raj Malhotra]

Original Pinaka - 38km range

Pinaka-42 range - i think in production

Pinaka-55km range - will come into production, but sanctioned

Pinaka-75 km - envisaged.


Pinaka - II = Smerch

Range 120km, then 150km and perhaps upto 180km in R&D

[Katare]

There is no question about Pinaka being under production and Mk2 version being under development. There were extensive detail given in interviews by DRDO head about how they are getting to 50K range (shaping the grain and increasing density etc). While he clearly said that Smerch is inducted and second batch of T-90 has started induction. Pinaka, Akash and Arjun no good for Army yet.

The question that I was trying to raise is why the army chief calling it as under 'advance stage of user evaluation" and TCS still under development. These were done deals as per all the published information that anyone can google. Is army trying to do an Arjun type tamasha on Pinaka? The interview is direct written reply/interview of Army chief without usual Farce/P-Chore-Gupta BS.

I hope that Gen made a mistake or we are up for a nasty surprise.

[A Sharma]

Sonar Developments

[A Sharma]

Shourya

[Avinash R]

Shourya

Thanks for the link. I think the pic on the second page has not been published before. Is that correct?

[Vipul]

In fact, Mr Naik feels that his biggest achievement in L&T has been to save the company from the Birla bid. He recounts the slog he had to endure to make that happen. “I knocked on almost all doors, visited all ministries who matter to L&T. I showed them the pictures of the company’s production facilities like submarine units (So L&T has a Submarine building unit since the last 10 years!!!!) which were strategic in nature. I asked them whether they wanted the company to go to a private fold. Most of the ministers said ‘never.’ The employees also opposed the Birla bid.”

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... urpg-2.cms

[Katare]

Mini Ratna status for Midhani

[KrishG]

A last bid to save the Arjun main battle tank project
http://news.smashits.com/338412/A-last- ... roject.htm

I really hope we don't let go of Arjun but we should try getting some ToT from Merkava-Mk 4 of Israel and using it on Arjun. That would really make Arjun one of the best! Let's hope DRDO seriously does that!

[Tilak]

Arjun tanks' comparative trials with T-90s this summer
16 Jan 2009, 0942 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: Army and DRDO will jointly carry out comparative trials of indigenous 'Arjun' tanks with Russian-made T-90s this June, increasing prospects of the former's induction in the force soon.

The trials would pave the way for the army to finally accept Arjun tanks for induction, over 36 years after the project was commissioned by the government, defence ministry sources said on Friday.

"The comparative trials of Arjun tanks with the Russian-made T-90s would take place this summer in June, before the army gets to induct the indigenously developed tanks," a defence ministry source said.

These trials will come exactly a year after the summer trials of Arjun tanks in the Rajasthan deserts had "failed", compelling Minister of State for Defence Production Rao Inderjit Singh to suspect "sabotage" to be behind the tanks performing below expectations during the trials.

The trial in June, sources said, would be the first of the series under which the army and the DRDO would test and compare technologies and capabilities of the two tanks.

"During the summer trials of the two tanks in June, they will be subjected to various other comparative tests in the following months and it is likely to be completed by June 2010," the source said. {No!.. please take another 10 years.}

After the trials, the army and the DRDO would carry out a detailed analysis of the tests to determine which of the two tanks was better, sources said.

[amanpuneet]

IA should induct these arjun now even if they don't do well in trials they cant be worse than TSP AL-Khalid in this way they will help local industry and employment and they can improve the product in later stages it is better than buying from shelf u always cant have best of best in world .

[Hiten]

must seriously be taken up by the govt IMO

India Inc wants share of 2000cr defence textile biz

Seeking a share of the Rs 2,000 crore a year clothing requirements of more than 15 lakh defence and 12 lakh paramilitary personnel, an industry chamber has urged the government to favour the domestic textile sector over imports as they had the capability to deliver world-class military gear.......

......It said Indian companies were capable of manufacturing "21st century battle suit embedded with nanotechnology that can stop bullets, detect chemical and biological agents, monitor wounded soldiers' vital signs, administer first aid and also communicate with headquarters".....

.......It said many Indian manufacturers were left out in the bidding race mainly because the tenders were phrased in such a manner where it helped a select few.......

......FICCI added that domestic companies often complained of not receiving contracts from defence forces because of the lowest bidder concept, even if their products were of better quality, more durable and more suitable for defence personnel.......

the report makes too much sense to be taken and implemented seriously. Its time babus forget the foreign jaunts associated with such contracts and think of strengthening our own industrial base [wishful thinking]


Just a thought - Hypothetical Qs - Would imposition of trade embargoes and some economic sanctions on India help develop our industrial capabilities, since we would no longer be free to make outright purchases and be forced to give our orders to desi industries

I do realise there are lots of variables and parameters to consider and i've simplified the issue a great deal, but in the overall perpective, it could help i think

[sanjaykumar]

http://www.zeusnumerix.com/case_studies


How advanced are these simulations?

[Vikram_S]

No need to get aggressive and rude.

Why do you keep repeating the same old things that have been known to everyone here for years. These things were posted at BRF and discussed in details when they were published. The new information is that Army Chief doesn't consider Pinaka as inducted but as in trial/development phase.

Watch your language now!

if you write wrong things, somebody will say it is the same way. your ego, pride, is without concern here. i only care for facts. this is the reality i have taken effort to see and find out. this is what i am posting. all rest is your angriness at my correction of your wrong statement.

fact is pinaka is in induction and by 2009, rockets will be delivered and mk1 pinaka will be in service to make the system in all 3 regiment fully operational.

army chief is also correct about mk2 pinaka and you can see DRDO NEWSLETTER JAN 09 to see progress on MK2 PINAKA. this is also evident from reality, but you are just trying to confuse issue with your without point aggressive manners.

language wise i have been correct in every sense.

Original Pinaka - 38km range

Pinaka-42 range - i think in production

Pinaka-55km range - will come into production, but sanctioned

Pinaka-75 km - envisaged.


Pinaka - II = Smerch

current pinaka is upto 40 km,

pinaka mk2 with TCS will be slight more

next 120 km missile system (MBRL) is not named PINAKA but new name

this is not shaurya,

The question that I was trying to raise is why the army chief calling it as under 'advance stage of user evaluation" and TCS still under development. These were done deals as per all the published information that anyone can google. Is army trying to do an Arjun type tamasha on Pinaka? The interview is direct written reply/interview of Army chief without usual Farce/P-Chore-Gupta BS.

for your information, all interview is edited. by no means is it for surely, that army cheif interview is not cut to make it "Xyz" words for print edition.

army cheif is correct about pinaka in evaluation - pinaka mk2 development is going on.

it is also clear army has placed sufficient order of pinaka rocket on OFB for 3 regiment, and 3 regiment is 30% of current authorised holding of MBRL. this order would not be placed if PINAKA MK1 was not meeting requirement.

rest 5 regiment will be PINAKA MK2 and future MBLR (SMERCH type). this is slightly longer range PINAKA with TCS.

TCS information is at http://www.drdo.com on SA to RM felecitiation to DRDO employee on 2009.

[Hiten]

Zee News - L&T to set up research facility for weapons systems

Heavy engineering giant Larsen & Toubro (L&T) will set up a major research facility that will conceptualise weapons systems developed by government agency DRDO for commercial production.

"We are not looking to set up something parallel to the DRDO. It will be complementary," L&T Board Member M V Kotwal said.

"As far as investments are concerned, we are ready. Once the green signal is given (by the government), then we can work on it," he added.

Elaborating on the research facility, he said the DRDO will play a valuable role if it restricts to real cutting edge high-end technologies, which India is yet to acquire. There are huge facilities and capable people in the DRDO, Kotwal said.

L&T would concentrate on applying the high-end technologies developed by DRDO, he said. "We can take up that role rather than DRDO wasting its time."

The premier defence research agency should look at the front-end, which requires large investments, because that is what it already has, he said. "DRDO has huge facilities and capable people," the L&T official said.

But as far as applying those technologies are concerned, L&T can take up that role, Kotwal said.

"We are geared up for things."

The heavy engineering firm is also planning investments at its manufacturing base in Coimbatore where various divisions of the company are setting up a unit.

The Coimbatore facility was mainly for defence and aerospace equipment manufacturing, Kotwal said, adding, "The facility would concentrate on high precision manufacturing."

Also, it being a base for high-precision manufacturing, the company has set up two modules there, he said. "We have capacity to add on because it is a very large area."

The private company is looking at building aircraft as well at Coimbatore, but it depends on government policies, he said.

As there is no road map for aircraft manufacturing, "Today we are talking about precision manufacturing. We are supporting a large number of Hindustan Aeronautical Ltd (HAL) programmes. Not only metallics, but composites," he said.

"We intend growing in that area. The base at Coimbatore can build towards aircraft manufacturing."

"There is a potential to go into full aircraft manufacturing in the years to come. We are progressively going in the direction. But there is no immediate plan to get into the commercial aircraft business," the L&T board member said.

As of now, HAL in Bangalore is the only aircraft maker for air force. L&T has been working for HAL to make sub-assemblies.

"In addition to Coimbatore, we have got a facility in Vadodara. That has been expanded to take up composite manufacture, which are used for aircraft and missiles," Kotwal said.

What is the exact role the L&T intends to play with this major research facility.

Is it to mfg protoypes and design and test the mfg process needed. Once they are validated transfer it to the OFB for mass production. Is it something on those lines?

[chetak]

Even HAL does not seem to have much confidence in the abilities of DRDO

HAL, not DRDO, will lead design of new aircraft
by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard: 5th March 08


(Photos: Ajai Shukla)
The Dhruv production line at HAL, Bangalore


The robust new partnership between Hin
dustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and India’s private sector is evident at the spanking new Rotary Wing R&D Centre (RWR&DC) at HAL’s Bangalore campus. This is the heart of the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) project, an HAL-led project in which private aviation design companies will play a key role.

The spacious hall of the RWR&DC is hushed except for the hum of 70 computer workstations. A dozen designers from private software company, Plexion Technologies, are working on Unigraphics computer aided design (CAD) software to create a hydraulics system for India’s futuristic Light Combat Helicopter (LCH). Near by, a team from HAL-BaE Systems is designing the helicopter’s engine cowling. Engineers from Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) work in another corner; they are responsible for the software package that connects all these designers in real time. In a glass-walled office that looks out at the RWR&DC, a team of Indian Air Force (IAF) engineers track the progress of each aspect of the LCH.

B Pandaji Nath Rao, Chief Designer for the LCH, who conducts Business Standard through this exclusive visit to the RWR&DC, explains the benefits of this integrated design centre. A tailor-made team from the private and public sector can be quickly put together; interaction is close; security is simplified; design changes take place in real time.

This HAL-led integrated design centre is a radical shift from the design approach towards India’s flagship aviation project: the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). The DRDO-headed Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) was responsible for designing and integrating the Tejas, drawing upon designers from DRDO laboratories spread across the country. HAL merely plays the role of “prime contractor”, responsible for manufacturing the LCA that the ADA designs.

But sharp criticism of delay in the LCA project (the project has run twenty-five years since it began, in 1983) has engendered a new outlook. HAL Chairman, Ashok Baweja, told Business Standard that HAL will no longer rely on the DRDO to manage aircraft design programmes. Instead, HAL will design, as well as manufacture, upcoming projects like the LCH, the Light Observation Helicopter (LOH), the Indo-Russian Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MRTA) and Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). It has already successfully led the development of the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH), which is in service with the military.

The reason for the delay in DRDO-led projects like the LCA, says Ashok Baweja, lies in the DRDO’s institutional focus on R&D, rather than on delivering a project on time. Furthermore, in contrast to HAL’s corporate structure, the DRDO is a non-commercial government department, hamstrung by procurement rules and practices.

Mr Ashok Baweja explains, “By tradition and practice, R&D labs are less focused on deliverables and project management. (The DRDO) is like an academic institution; it is in the business of teaching and learning. If they are told, now go and make this, you make a product which is deliverable, marketable which they have to get certified by somebody, they won’t know how to go about it.”

Even while rejecting DRDO as a “programme manager”, the HAL Chairman is careful to highlight the major role played by the DRDO in developing the LCA. Key systems were developed by DRDO laboratories like the Aviation Development Establishment (ADE), the Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) and many others, who Mr Baweja said would continue to develop systems for the aircraft now being developed by HAL.

In assuming responsibility for both design and manufacture, HAL is reverting to an earlier model. Early aircraft like the HT-2 and Kiran trainers, and the HF-24 were designed as well as manufactured in HAL Bangalore.

[JaiS]

Naval Technology has added a page on CAR.