Indian Military Aviation

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 09 Jan 2009 09:28

Most of the time the Embraers are used for transportation requirements of the Chiefs and C-in-Cs of all the three forces.

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Jan 2009 09:43

So, these superb aircraft will never be leased out to ARC/agencies since there are reports of ARC facing a shortage of such high endurance aircraft and being left with only a single ageing Gulfstream, thus hitting their op readiness?

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 09 Jan 2009 11:27

sum wrote:So, these superb aircraft will never be leased out to ARC/agencies since there are reports of ARC facing a shortage of such high endurance aircraft and being left with only a single ageing Gulfstream, thus hitting their op readiness?

I dont see how the ARC can use aircrafts ment for vip ferrying for its recon missions

the hardware needed for such task are fitted on to the aircraft, with different layout and config from that of a normal craft.

assuming it is even possible to take them out and re-fit it as and when required, it is highly impractical doing o on an aircraft whose availability would all hinge on the irratic vip schedule

Using these crafts would also let more people know when the R&AW is going on a mission - not cool

as for long term lease is concerned, doing so wouldn't help solve the shortage of vip crafts it was facing

the Lankans seem to be denying R&AW recon mission
Lanka PM denies Indian surveillance mission in Wanni

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 09 Jan 2009 14:37

Some general vague ideas I have about Turboprops vs turbojets:-

Turboprops are always better at loitering as their efficient loiter speed would be around 500km/hr. Hence P-3 would be able to loiter for around 24 hours and Tu-142 perhaps 36 hours with warload and switching off two engines in last few hours.

The a turbojet efficient speed is around 800km/hr and for P-8 the loiter time would be around 10hours. But its efficiency would be in reaching target quickly and also (if required) evading any enemy fighters. So for long loiter, P-8 will have to be coupled with a Il-78 tanker.

Tu-142 is very long ranged and can hit targets 8000-10,000km away. We would need around 2-3 tankers like Il-78 with single P-8 for such long range missions. though why we would be hitting targets near antartica would be moot point.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Jan 2009 19:08

An old news item

ndian Air Force capable of neutralizing Pakistani nuclear missile capabilities with stealth deep penetration bombs
Sudhir Chadda
Dec. 25, 2006

It is the most vital secret kept as the strategic defense initiative in India. It is an achievement of DRDO (Defense Research and Development Organization) in India that keeps India confident of winning the next war with Pakistan in hours. The secret lies in stealth non-nuclear precision deep penetration bombs that will devastate Pakistani or Chinese nuclear capabilities in minutes. Israel and America have similar capabilities.

Pakistani nuclear and missile installation are deep underground. Pakistan took the North Korean and Chinese technologies to harden their nuke bases against incoming Indian or Western missiles. The question is how deep can you go? The crust of the earth is close to 30 miles. You can hardly go five or six miles down. The deep penetrating bombs does not have to reach that far. A computer simulated coordinated series of deep penetration can isolate the target and generate enough harmonic tremor to automatically seal the site for ever.

Asserting that Pakistan will continue to increase its defense capabilities, President Pervez Musharraf has said the country's nuclear and missile installations are safe even from a nuclear strike. The low tech Pakistani General is too confident of Pakistani deep underground facilities.

India monitors these Pakistani strategic sites continuously using signal, satellite, field intelligence and remote viewing techniques.

"The security and safety of our nuclear and missile power is so much that if God forbid there is a nuclear attack on Pakistan, this would not be affected," Musharraf said on the occasion of the 130th birth anniversary of founder of Pakistan Muhammad Ali Jinnah at his mausoleum in Karachi on Sunday night.

Indian scientists in DRDO is ready to take these installations out in minutes.

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Jan 2009 19:37

So, India has bunker busters?

What is the source of that news item? Hope its not some DEBKA style outlet...

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 09 Jan 2009 19:46

India Daily - Indian Air Force capable of neutralizing Pakistani nuclear missile capabilities with stealth deep penetration bombs

Their News often reaches close to the levels of DEBKA

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Jan 2009 19:48

India daily is right up there !!

one of their reports was about a secret UFO base deep inside the himalayan foothills !!

check the spelling of another of their headlines : " Congress Party bringinging in celebreties to contest from Punjab - it can become the root cause for failure "

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jan 2009 21:58

I think they are talking about sub kilos smart weapons?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Jan 2009 00:20

Hiten wrote:
sum wrote:So, these superb aircraft will never be leased out to ARC/agencies since there are reports of ARC facing a shortage of such high endurance aircraft and being left with only a single ageing Gulfstream, thus hitting their op readiness?
I dont see how the ARC can use aircrafts ment for vip ferrying for its recon missions

the hardware needed for such task are fitted on to the aircraft, with different layout and config from that of a normal craft.

assuming it is even possible to take them out and re-fit it as and when required, it is highly impractical doing o on an aircraft whose availability would all hinge on the irratic vip schedule

Using these crafts would also let more people know when the R&AW is going on a mission - not cool

as for long term lease is concerned, doing so wouldn't help solve the shortage of vip crafts it was facing

the Lankans seem to be denying R&AW recon mission
Lanka PM denies Indian surveillance mission in Wanni

Dudes,
Where did you get the idea that the RAW or ARC was short of funds or aircraft for that matter?
Their budgets are secret and their accounts are NEVER audited.
More numbers of Embraers have come to India than the numbers being used by the Indian Air Force’s Communications Squadron,
Heck, even the DRDO is supposed to have one.

ajay_ijn · Post by **ajay_ijn** » 10 Jan 2009 08:46

i wanted to discuss something about smart submunitions.

India had recently ordered CBU-105 Sensor fuzed weapon, each having 10 BLU-108 submunition which further carries 4 Skeet warheads having terminal IR and Laser Guidance, thought be deadly against tank formations and vehicles. this probably is for Jaguar or Mirage 2000.

on the other hand, Army already has similar warhead in the form Bazalt Motiv-3F submunition, 5 of which are carried by 9M55K1 rocket on Smerch System. Motiv is the land based version of the air launched SPBE-D SFW.

Besides all this, DRDO also has developed/demonstrated technologies related to MMW/IR Guided Submunitions for 120mm Mortar and Prithvi. I am not sure if it is already inservice.

http://archives.nic.in/techfocus/doc1/smart.htm

120mm Mortar round containing MMW Guided submunitions.
DRDO has successfully developed several technologies under a technology demonstration project for the development of SADARM type of top attack ammunition for 120 mm mortar.

These technologies include:

Explosively Formed Projectile (EFP) Technology. A copper liner of parabolic shape is used to serve as an antenna for MM wave guidance and also to form a single projectile from it.

Detonator arming safety device to activate EFP at desired stand-off.

Thin-walled high strength carrier bomb body to accommodate all sub-systems.

Efficient capsule ejection system from carrier body ensuring correct ejection of sensor fuze munition module.

A highly compact MM wave radar sensor with search and target sensing capability.

A rotafoil parachute system to stabilise the submunition with desired rate of descent, and required spin of the submunition to enable the MM wave sensor to scan the ground targets.

Overall system integration.

A new parallel body carrier bomb has been designed to accommodate `P' charge, sensor unit and parachute system. The existing time mechanical fuse is used for the first separation for ejection of capsule at a predetermined height above the ground level. After a certain delay, secondary charge functions and a submunition is ejected out from the capsule. At the same time, all safeties are removed, rotafoil parachute is deployed, and the battery gets connected to the MM wave sensor. The sensor starts scanning the area under its footprint. As soon as the target is detected and is within the range of the warhead, a pulse is given to the detonator to initiate the warhead. This warhead forms the explosively formed projectile which defeats the target with high velocity.

This is a novel kill mechanism that can be used for attacking the armour from its vulnerable top using an explosively formed projectile. The projectile is formed from a metallic liner on detection of a target. Once the target is identified, the sensor initiates the kill mechanism which projects the EFP at required velocity to defeat the top armour of the target AFV. A 120 mm mortar has been used as the delivery platform for this technology demonstration. The technology can later be horizontally inserted into other platforms like Prithvi, Pinaka and 155 mm ICM. Only a handful of advanced countries possess these technologies. The smart munition is in advanced stage of development and integration; the validation tests are in progress.

Various static/dynamic trials were conducted to prove all sub-systems. Limited system integration trials were also conducted to prove the technology.

Since bakistan is so proud of their large tank force, a sizable number must be neutralized even before they enter the battlefield. I am also considering scenarios like Longewala where Air force plays decisive part. These anti-armor submunitions would ideally suited for longewala type scenarios.

DRDO looks to be one-step ahead, in hot desert like conditions, IR sensors could have problem, So MMW would be better.

but what would be the ideal weight, speed, projectile type for the Submunition. while Bazalts Submunition weighs 15 Kg, Skeet warhead weighs 3.4 Kg.

the one advantage of CBU-105 is the WCMD Tail kit which allows standoff ranges of 12 miles when launched at 40,000 feet. So that means baki short range SAMs and MANPADs can be avoided altogether.

another article comparing US & Russian SFW. apparently India will have both.
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/06/r ... ns-of.html

The Russians are usually credited with building good, simple weapons (like the Kalashnikov series and RPG-7 ) but considered weak when to comes to high tech. A close look at one of their tank-busting smart bombs shows how far they've come, however.

The sensor-fuzed weapon is one of the most sophisticated weapons in the US air-to-ground arsenal. This is a 1,000-pound bomb which releases forty small BLU-108 submunitions, over an area the size of 20 football fields. Each BLU-108 (or "cans of whup ass" as some call them) scans the area below with an infra-red sensor; on detecting an armored vehicle below, it fires an explosively formed penetrator with lethal accuracy. The EFP is capable of piercing the thin top armor and scoring a mobility kill any known tank: basically, there goes your engine. A single sensor-fuzed weapon will knock out several vehicles in a formation; an aircraft armed with several of them could stop a large-scale armored assault in its tracks. (The video, above, is a reconstruction of a B-52 which took out a battalion-sized Iraqi force in one pass using sensor-fuzed weapons.)

It turns out the Russian have their own version. This is a 500-kilogram bomb made by Bazalt, termed SPBE-D.

The similarities with the SFW are obvious – the way the submunitions are scattered, the infra-red sensor to look for vehicles, and the EFP kill mechanism. There are some differences, however. The Russian submunitions are much larger, with only 15 rather than 40 in each bomb. And they weigh four times as much as their American counterparts. Bazalt claim that each bomb can knock out six tanks.

You might assume that the SPBE-D is a "me too" weapon, developed long after the US version. But it seems that the Russians got there first. The BLU-108 has been in production since 1992 and in service since 1994. According to Armada magazine, when the SPBE-D was first shown in 1994, the Russians claimed it had already in service for some years; a Soviet origin is likely. According to Janes', the air-delivered version of the Russian submunition was derived from an earlier model called MOTIV-3F developed for the SMERCH long-range rocket launcher in the 1980's. The Russians have been selling it on the international market since 1997.

The US Multiple Launch Rocket System does not have this kind of smart anti-tank capability, instead relying on area-saturating bomblets -- but Bazalt have apparently proposed a MOTIV-3F warhead for it. I can't see the US buying, but Bazalt might well find other customers. Future opponents armed with Russian weapons may have a lot more than just AKs and rocket-propelled grenades.

UPDATE: The US version has 40 submunitions, the Russian only 15: does this mean the American weapon is more advanced? Perhaps it's more a reflection of different approaches. The Russian SPBE-D has a much larger warhead in an attempt to guarantee a kill; the US BLU-108 fires a projectile made of the metal Tantalum which is denser and more effective, but far for expensive than copper. The US weapon maximises the potential number of kills; the Russian weapon is cheaper and can be acquired in larger numbers. But it's not necessarily less sophisticated; as well as in IR sensor, one version of the SPBE-D also has a millimetre wave sensor which can pick up cold vehicles with engines turned off.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 10 Jan 2009 11:18

Where did you get the idea that the RAW or ARC was short of funds or aircraft for that matter?
Their budgets are secret and their accounts are NEVER audited.

In fact, the Union Budget has no explicit reference to RAW at all. Apparently the numbers are scrounged from a variety of heads. This has been used in the past for many a strategic mission. For example, K Santhanam was posted in RAW for a number of years. His core job was to source "dual use" nuke tech from a variety of sources under the radar, without an explicit reference to the DAE budgets.

ARC aircraft are known to have been used for transporting nukes.

However, its a bad idea to not have parliamentary oversight on this budget. It only breeds corruption - part of the problem with RAW is that the only person who really has "oversight" is the PM, and there is obviously a bandwidth issue in terms of monitornig expenditure efficiency at that levevl.

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Jan 2009 14:38

However, its a bad idea to not have parliamentary oversight on this budget. It only breeds corruption - part of the problem with RAW is that the only person who really has "oversight" is the PM, and there is obviously a bandwidth issue in terms of monitornig expenditure efficiency at that levevl.

Absolutely..
There have been reports of senior RAW officials using ARC planes to transport bamboos etc from the NE to their houses(for furniture) and there is no one to even question them.

Btw, very good to hear that RAW and ARC are doing well in the department of aircraft availability/usage.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 10 Jan 2009 17:59

IAF Sukhoi jets being retrofitted with cruise missile pods.

NEW DELHI: Two Indian Air Force (IAF) Sukhoi-30MKI combat jets have been sent to Russia for a retrofit that would enable them launch the aerial version of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile that India and Russia have jointly developed, an official said.

"The aerial version of the BrahMos missiles will be delivered from the Su-30MKI platform. We were in talks with Sukhoi and the IAF for it. Finally two Su-30MKIs of the IAF have been sent to Russia for retrofitting," a senior official of BrahMos Aerospace that manufactures the missile, told IANS, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"The aerial version of BrahMos is coming along very well. After being programmed, the missile will be released from the aircraft and will auto-launch towards its target when it reaches an altitude of 50 metres," the official explained.

"The aerial version is nearly nine metres long and this requires modifications of the aircraft's fuselage. Since the Sukhoi company is busy with designing a fifth generation fighter, (India's) DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) scientists, along with Russian experts, will carry out the necessary modifications," the official said.

The modifications will be completed by early 2010.

Once this happens, BrahMos will become a "universal cruise missile" due to its ability to be launched from land, sea - from both ships and submarines - and the air.

The land and naval versions have already been inducted into service with the Indian Army and the Indian Navy.

The navy has integrated anti-ship versions of the BrahMos on its warships, including INS Rajput, and is integrating it on to two other ships of the same class. The missiles will also be mounted on the three 7,000-tonne Kolkata class destroyers currently being constructed at Mumbai's Mazagon Docks.

The navy had Dec 18 last year test-fired the missile from a vertical launcher on a ship in the Bay of Bengal. All earlier launches had been carried out from inclined launchers.

The missile, which takes its name from the Brahmaputra and Moskva rivers, has a range of nearly 300 km and carries a 300 kg conventional warhead. It can achieve speeds of up to 2.8 Mach or nearly three times the speed of sound.

BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited was established in India as a joint venture through an inter-governmental agreement signed between India and Russia in February 1998.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Jan 2009 22:19

somnath wrote:
Where did you get the idea that the RAW or ARC was short of funds or aircraft for that matter?
Their budgets are secret and their accounts are NEVER audited.
In fact, the Union Budget has no explicit reference to RAW at all. Apparently the numbers are scrounged from a variety of heads. This has been used in the past for many a strategic mission. For example, K Santhanam was posted in RAW for a number of years. His core job was to source "dual use" nuke tech from a variety of sources under the radar, without an explicit reference to the DAE budgets.

ARC aircraft are known to have been used for transporting nukes.

However, its a bad idea to not have parliamentary oversight on this budget. It only breeds corruption - part of the problem with RAW is that the only person who really has "oversight" is the PM, and there is obviously a bandwidth issue in terms of monitornig expenditure efficiency at that levevl.

somnath ji
In any country,
Intelligence budgets and details are never in the public domain.
That's how they lie low

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 10 Jan 2009 22:39

somnath wrote:
Where did you get the idea that the RAW or ARC was short of funds or aircraft for that matter?
Their budgets are secret and their accounts are NEVER audited.
ARC aircraft are known to have been used for transporting nukes.

.

Could you give some details of the above? When, where, which aircraft?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Jan 2009 23:25

^^^
unless this is public domain info, I would request neither to ask nor to answer such questions.
Rahul.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 10 Jan 2009 23:58

Rahul M wrote:^^^
unless this is public domain info, I would request neither to ask nor to answer such questions.
Rahul.

I doubt that it is a public domain info. I asked the question precisely for that reason..if it is not public domain info, why was it disclosed on a public forum and how come the poster is in possession of such confidential info. and thought it is prudent to disclose that ARC aircrafts are used for that purpose. If it is public info., not harm done (or harm is already done).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Jan 2009 01:31

why rambha needs to go to russia for the air launchers? can't we do it here.. & I am confused when they say "retrofitting"!.

Div · Post by **Div** » 11 Jan 2009 03:49

SaiK wrote:why rambha needs to go to russia for the air launchers? can't we do it here.. & I am confused when they say "retrofitting"!.

I am assuming its because some structural changes are required. I read it as "they've sent 2 Su-30s to figure out the modification process and the rest will be updated in India".

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 11 Jan 2009 04:53

SaiK wrote:why rambha needs to go to russia for the air launchers? can't we do it here.. & I am confused when they say "retrofitting"!.

As per license agreements we are not to modify the MKI structural design, its a strict no-no for the Russians....in this case the wings have to be strengthened to carry the BRAHMOS and this change might necessitate some more changes....

What I see happening here is that a few MKI will be modified in Russia and the rest will be in India, the Russians will be happy with it as their hands are full with the FGFA....

I am stumped over the word "retrofit" as well...

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 11 Jan 2009 05:32

sum wrote:
However, its a bad idea to not have parliamentary oversight on this budget. It only breeds corruption - part of the problem with RAW is that the only person who really has "oversight" is the PM, and there is obviously a bandwidth issue in terms of monitornig expenditure efficiency at that levevl.
Absolutely..
There have been reports of senior RAW officials using ARC planes to transport bamboos etc from the NE to their houses(for furniture) and there is no one to even question them.

Btw, very good to hear that RAW and ARC are doing well in the department of aircraft availability/usage.

Unless it is kept secret, secrets may be compromised, by corrupt Indian Parliamentarians.

A lot of they money is simply spent on booze, hookers, expensive hotels, hitmen, bribes and what not. What matters is that the job gets done, even at the higher cost.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 11 Jan 2009 07:48

chetak wrote: somnath ji
In any country,
Intelligence budgets and details are never in the public domain.
That's how they lie low

Not really, while specific agency budgets are classified, the total expenditure on intel is public knowledge in most countries, including US and UK. Further, specific agency budgets are also revealed and heavily scrutinised by the select committees of the resp PArliaments. The parliamentary oversight is the most important variable, without this, it becomes a free for all, which is partly the case in India.

I doubt that it is a public domain info. I asked the question precisely for that reason..if it is not public domain info, why was it disclosed on a public forum and how come the poster is in possession of such confidential info. and thought it is prudent to disclose that ARC aircrafts are used for that purpose. If it is public info., not harm done (or harm is already done).

SAndeep Unnithan had mentioned it in one of his articles in India Today some time back - its not really classified info.

ajay_ijn · Post by **ajay_ijn** » 11 Jan 2009 08:01

Yogi_G wrote:
SaiK wrote:why rambha needs to go to russia for the air launchers? can't we do it here.. & I am confused when they say "retrofitting"!.
As per license agreements we are not to modify the MKI structural design, its a strict no-no for the Russians....in this case the wings have to be strengthened to carry the BRAHMOS and this change might necessitate some more changes....

Thats disappointing, why the restrictions?, are there similar restrictions for Mig-21, Mig-27 etc? HAL did modify Gnat or probably even Jaguar.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Jan 2009 08:21

.in this case the wings have to be strengthened to carry the BRAHMOS and this change might necessitate some more changes....

IIRC, it is a belly mount. (Two Brahmos per MKI is too much I would think.) Nonetheless the AC needs mods.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Jan 2009 01:41

Air Force places order with BEL for Akash missile

Air Force places order with BEL for Akash missile

Ravi Sharma

Akash system comes with radars, mobile launchers and control centres

It will counter attacks from unmanned combat aerial vehicles, aircraft and missiles

BANGALORE: In a boost to the country’s missile development effort, the Indian Air Force has finally placed an order with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) for two squadrons of medium range, surface-to-air missile Akash.

The Rs. 1,200-crore order comes 14 months after field trials at Pokhran in Rajasthan.

Earlier, the IAF had reservations about placing the order as the missile, in its present version, does not meet a few of its operating requirements. The IAF wanted a smaller, lighter missile that had a longer range and was more manoeuvrable. The missile also does not have a seeker. However, batch-by-batch improvements in Akash are expected.
Of the Patriot class

Developed by Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), Akash is part of India’s Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme and comes with radars, mobile launchers, control centres, battlefield management software and other support systems. It will be utilised by the IAF against attacks from unmanned combat aerial vehicles, aircraft and missiles.

In the same class as the U.S.’ Patriot, Israel’s Barak and the U.K.’s SAM, the 5.78-metre long, 700-kg Akash can destroy targets as far away as 25 km and has a supersonic speed of 600 metres a second.

BEL has tied up with Larsen & Toubro, Tata Power, Walchand Industries and ECIL. It is contracted to deliver the two squadrons in 36 months. DRDL, besides transferring technology in the form of documents for production of Akash, will oversee the weapon system integration and provide support throughout the 20-year lifecycle of the missile.

Project Director R.R. Panyam told The Hindu that it was “for the first time that the country’s armed forces had placed an order for such a sophisticated, indigenously developed weapon system.”

The IAF could expect a consistent and reliable missile system, and it was expected to place more such orders.

The Army could also look to acquire Akash, but with modifications.

Calling the order an indication of the technical capabilities of indigenous defence laboratories, Prahlada, Chief Controller of the Defence Research and Development Organisation, said the missile had an 85 per cent kill probability.

Akash, which can destroy multiple targets, can be fired from both trucks and tracked vehicles.

It is expected to cost the exchequer less than similar missiles, whose cost is in the range of Rs. 5-6 crore each.

The Akash missile system, according to a statement made by Defence Minister A.K. Antony in the Rajya Sabha, cost the exchequer Rs. 516.86 crore for its development, the highest for any of India’s missile systems.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 12 Jan 2009 02:05

NRao wrote:
.in this case the wings have to be strengthened to carry the BRAHMOS and this change might necessitate some more changes....
IIRC, it is a belly mount. (Two Brahmos per MKI is too much I would think.) Nonetheless the AC needs mods.

I guess the sending of the MKIs to Russia does confirm that the modification are required, news of MKI not needing mods to accommodate the Brahmos was making its rounds a few years ago, posting some links,

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Su-3 ... 743702.cms

http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/aug/26brahmos.htm

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/214/

Also there are conflicting reports of which station in the MKI would handle the CM, under belly or wing loaders...

I know nothing much abt aeronautical engineering etc but to me it would seem odd that a MKI carrying 2 BRAHMOS under its 2 wings would be in an akward state when one of the CM were launched given that each of these monsters is 3 tonnes, I believe the aerodynamics would be impacted with one wing having 3 tonnes and other nothing...

ajay_ijn · Post by **ajay_ijn** » 12 Jan 2009 07:44

RaviBg wrote:Air Force places order with BEL for Akash missile

Air Force places order with BEL for Akash missile

Ravi Sharma

Akash system comes with radars, mobile launchers and control centres

It will counter attacks from unmanned combat aerial vehicles, aircraft and missiles

BANGALORE: In a boost to the country’s missile development effort, the Indian Air Force has finally placed an order with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) for two squadrons of medium range, surface-to-air missile Akash.

The Rs. 1,200-crore order comes 14 months after field trials at Pokhran in Rajasthan.

Earlier, the IAF had reservations about placing the order as the missile, in its present version, does not meet a few of its operating requirements. The IAF wanted a smaller, lighter missile that had a longer range and was more manoeuvrable. The missile also does not have a seeker. However, batch-by-batch improvements in Akash are expected.
Of the Patriot class

Developed by Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), Akash is part of India’s Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme and comes with radars, mobile launchers, control centres, battlefield management software and other support systems. It will be utilised by the IAF against attacks from unmanned combat aerial vehicles, aircraft and missiles.

In the same class as the U.S.’ Patriot, Israel’s Barak and the U.K.’s SAM, the 5.78-metre long, 700-kg Akash can destroy targets as far away as 25 km and has a supersonic speed of 600 metres a second.

BEL has tied up with Larsen & Toubro, Tata Power, Walchand Industries and ECIL. It is contracted to deliver the two squadrons in 36 months. DRDL, besides transferring technology in the form of documents for production of Akash, will oversee the weapon system integration and provide support throughout the 20-year lifecycle of the missile.

Project Director R.R. Panyam told The Hindu that it was “for the first time that the country’s armed forces had placed an order for such a sophisticated, indigenously developed weapon system.”

The IAF could expect a consistent and reliable missile system, and it was expected to place more such orders.

The Army could also look to acquire Akash, but with modifications.

Calling the order an indication of the technical capabilities of indigenous defence laboratories, Prahlada, Chief Controller of the Defence Research and Development Organisation, said the missile had an 85 per cent kill probability.

Akash, which can destroy multiple targets, can be fired from both trucks and tracked vehicles.

It is expected to cost the exchequer less than similar missiles, whose cost is in the range of Rs. 5-6 crore each.

The Akash missile system, according to a statement made by Defence Minister A.K. Antony in the Rajya Sabha, cost the exchequer Rs. 516.86 crore for its development, the highest for any of India’s missile systems.

finally finally

. first production order for Akash.
About range, weight etc, its not much different that Russian Shitl which is already in Navys service.

but why didn't BDL get the contract? they are the PSU meant for producing missiles. Good to see so much private companies involvement atleast in the production.

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 12 Jan 2009 14:36

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Eco ... 959983.cms
Two Indian Air Force (IAF) Sukhoi-30MKI combat jets have been sent to Russia for a retrofit that would enable them launch the aerial
version of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile that India and Russia have jointly developed, an official said.

"The aerial version of the BrahMos missiles will be delivered from the Su-30MKI platform. We were in talks with Sukhoi and the IAF for it. Finally two Su-30MKIs of the IAF have been sent to Russia for retrofitting," a senior official of BrahMos Aerospace that manufactures the missile, told IANS, speaking on condition of anonymity.
"The aerial version of BrahMos is coming along very well. After being programmed, the missile will be released from the aircraft and will auto-launch towards its target when it reaches an altitude of 50 metres," the official explained.
"The aerial version is nearly nine metres long and this requires modifications of the aircraft's fuselage. Since the Sukhoi company is busy with designing a fifth generation fighter, (India's) DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) scientists, along with Russian experts, will carry out the necessary modifications," the official said.
The modifications will be completed by early 2010.
Once this happens, BrahMos will become a "universal cruise missile" due to its ability to be launched from land, sea - from both ships and submarines - and the air.
The land and naval versions have already been inducted into service with the Indian Army and the Indian Navy.
The navy has integrated anti-ship versions of the BrahMos on its warships, including INS Rajput, and is integrating it on to two other ships of the same class. The missiles will also be mounted on the three 7,000-tonne Kolkata class destroyers currently being constructed at Mumbai's Mazagon Docks.
The navy had Dec 18 last year test-fired the missile from a vertical launcher on a ship in the Bay of Bengal. All earlier launches had been carried out from inclined launchers.
The missile, which takes its name from the Brahmaputra and Moskva rivers, has a range of nearly 300 km and carries a 300 kg conventional warhead. It can achieve speeds of up to 2.8 Mach or nearly three times the speed of sound.
BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited was established in India as a joint venture through an inter-governmental agreement signed between India and Russia in February 1998.

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 12 Jan 2009 16:04

I not aware of Sukhoi contract per se, but any commercial warranty for performance becomes void if the buyer modifies the product as his end.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 13 Jan 2009 09:58

ajay_ijn wrote:
Yogi_G wrote: As per license agreements we are not to modify the MKI structural design, its a strict no-no for the Russians....in this case the wings have to be strengthened to carry the BRAHMOS and this change might necessitate some more changes....
Thats disappointing, why the restrictions?, are there similar restrictions for Mig-21, Mig-27 etc? HAL did modify Gnat or probably even Jaguar.

Lest you come up with a J-11

klein · Post by **klein** » 13 Jan 2009 11:53

The First Phalcon is here !!!!
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 8&Itemid=1
The Indian Air Force's newest force-multiplier, the first of three 'Phalcon' Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW) aircraft landed quietly in New Delhi on Sunday.

Confirming this, senior IAF officials said that the aircraft was at Delhi's Palam technical area airport on a stopover from Israel. It was inspected by senior air force brass, including Air Chief Marshal Fali Major before heading out to Agra. The aircraft are to be based in Agra and form part of a new AEW squadron.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 13 Jan 2009 11:59

AWESOME NEWS
thanks klein.
go phalcon.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 13 Jan 2009 12:04

Thank god , it has finally arrived - I would hope that the other 2 are also in place by this time next year and the contract for the next 3 is signed too .

AWACS is a modern day necessity which we lack in numbers.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 13 Jan 2009 12:21

oh good news, finally it arrives, two more this year

India has signed a $ 1.1 billion deal for three Phalcons with Israel in 2004. The first aircraft were to be delivered last year but delayed by a few months. All deliveries are to be completed by next year.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Jan 2009 13:00

YIPEE......

vishals · Post by **vishals** » 13 Jan 2009 13:43

Guyz, Couldn't believe my eyes...

I saw Phalcon taking off from HAL Airport bangalore today at 11:30 AM...

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 13 Jan 2009 14:22

vishals wrote:Guyz, Couldn't believe my eyes...

I saw Phalcon taking off from HAL Airport bangalore today at 11:30 AM...

Thats funny. The article clearly mentions that the Phalcon was there on its way to agra. Why would it go to Bangalore?

May be the same way one heads straight to the mandir after entering a holy place.

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 13 Jan 2009 15:04

Dont think the Brahmos will be wing mounted. It will probably be belly mounted and might be restricted to just one missile per fighter.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 13 Jan 2009 15:33

maybe they are verifying if we can monitor pakis from b'lore