Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jan 2009 08:09

ramana wrote:JwalaMukhi, I see it differently. Anatole Levein is a noted TSP watcher. What he is saying is that India cannot be expected to absorb more TSP strikes.

Come on saar, people like him have been saying something similar after every TSP terror attack. I see it as a way of soothing India's wounded prided by a guilty westerner for western propping up of a terrorist state.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2009 08:16

CRamS wrote:
ramana wrote:JwalaMukhi, I see it differently. Anatole Levein is a noted TSP watcher. What he is saying is that India cannot be expected to absorb more TSP strikes.

Come on saar, people like him have been saying something similar after every TSP terror attack. I see it as a way of soothing India's wounded prided by a guilty westerner for western propping up of a terrorist state.

Anatole Lieven is not like Uneven Cohen. His USP is preserving TSP while Unven's is to have TSP serve US interests.

Anyway you can have your views I can have mine.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 20 Jan 2009 08:18

Be understanding towards Pak: Rice to India

Oh, we understand TSP very well, thanQ ma'm. First miligand, then Rice on her last day in office...

sid_ashar · Post by **sid_ashar** » 20 Jan 2009 08:22

ramana wrote:JwalaMukhi, I see it differently.

Oh come on... this is the same argument after every terrorist attack. I believe we will continue to hear this every time there is a major attack. It has not happened in 15 plus years since the bombay blasts of 93, its not going to happen now. The only time there was any motivation for the politicos to get off their a** to do anything was in 2001 after the parliament attacks, that too because THEY were threatened directly. Regular citizens like us will continue to die and politicos will not do anything, so hoping that something will be done about it is living in a fools paradise.

What I still find hard to believe is that Mukherjee, Chidambaram or MMS have not been subjected to any critical questioning by the media or the parliament. All I have heard is just blabber mouths in Delhi mumbling something every other day.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jan 2009 08:24

ramana wrote: Anatole Lieven is not like Uneven Cohen. His USP is preserving TSP while Unven's is to have TSP serve US interests.

Anyway you can have your views I can have mine.

No offense meant. I really want to believe that there is a method to India's apparent pussilanimity as Anatole believes; thats all.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Jan 2009 08:46

sid_ashar wrote:
What I still find hard to believe is that Mukherjee, Chidambaram or MMS have not been subjected to any critical questioning by the media or the parliament. All I have heard is just blabber mouths in Delhi mumbling something every other day.

All including the media elite are part of the same club. They only focus on the opposition but are unable to criticize their own group for inaction.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2009 08:47

None taken CRS.

For others.....

MMS et al cant and wont take any action as they are not responsible to the people of India. This govt is not an elected govt. Its an appointed govt. So please direct your fury where it belongs. They were told to form the govt per certain conditions and they fullfilled that. The job was to go slow on militarization and keep the economy ogin os that aam janata will be quite happy and not raise tensions for the West. All those mil procurements were held up for this reason. To ensure India cannot retaliate. Go red the mil forum. There is nothing this govt has procured that is sueful in an iummediate sense. Five years have been wasted. They let lose the Sachar dogs inside the armed forces, stunted the intel folks, RAW is useless either uncooked or cooked, the Pay commission and warrant of precednce has made the Armed forces quite demoralised and then the let lsoe the malegoan dryefus case. they did all this after being assured that this will lead to kumbaya peace all over and maybe a couple of Nobull prizes.

Unfortunately TSP which is on a down slide decided otherwise and attacked India tiwce In Kabul and Mumbai hoping India will muster troops or retaliae and that would preserve tehir sorry state. By doing nothing these folks have exaceberated the situation in TSP. SWAT has fallen and the Pakibanization is on full steam ahead.

What AL is telling the TSP if you read the report without throwing a fit is that TSP wont be there if there is another attack on US or India for the restraint will be off. This is because the capacity to absorb hits is over. He is number #1 supporter of TSP. he is advising the TSP not to idulge in the acts anymore.

But folks can idulge in their usual thinking.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 20 Jan 2009 08:53

What AL is telling the TSP if you read the report without throwing a fit is that TSP wont be there if there is another attack on US or India for the restraint will be off. This is because the capacity to absorb hits is over. He is number #1 supporter of TSP. he is advising the TSP not to idulge in the acts anymore.

But folks can idulge in their usual thinking.

AL makes an assumption that India's capacity to absorb hits is over.
Am not too sure about that. What if another series of bum blasts happened and Dilli reiterated that TSP too is a victim of terror?

We keep hearing time and again about TSP's talibanization but it may take forever, seems like. Anyway, since we have no option but to wait and react, might as well do so...

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 20 Jan 2009 08:57

There is contradiction here
On one hand this govt is supposed to be to serve wests interests by stunting Indian might, on the other hand any more attack, TSP is doomed ?

Then again is there a time limit such a followup attack by TSP with in so and so date will be met with conseqences but after that (fill in the blanks) its ok?

I mean is there a quota of attacks with in period such that India will not retalliate?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Jan 2009 09:05

AdityaM wrote:The grudge part: While Pranab who is much 'senior' was addressing him as "Your Excellency", Milliband was addressing Pranab by his first name.

That was a dhimmi Pranab. The moment he realized that Miliband was addressing the Indian FM by his first name, the Indian FM should have done the same thing. Stop complaining and start acting, MEA. In fact. first name familiarity should be encouraged.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 20 Jan 2009 09:08

India will not retalliate period. We will be talking about non-response after 20th such attack like mumbai.

TSPA has uncle by the balls, forget India...India is a soft state.We are only good at showing sharp teeth, but has no means to bite at the Devil next door.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jan 2009 09:21

ramana wrote:
What AL is telling the TSP if you read the report without throwing a fit is that TSP wont be there if there is another attack on US or India for the restraint will be off. This is because the capacity to absorb hits is over. He is number #1 supporter of TSP. he is advising the TSP not to idulge in the acts anymore.

I find AL suspect precisely because of the above quote. Any half-brained analyst ought to know that except for slimy underhand perfidy, there is no way TSP will commit a henious diabolical crime against US as they did against India in Mumbai and hide behind plausible deniability. Plus, as we all know, TSP's focus is India and India alone. And there is no evidence to suggest that India has the capability nor the will to wipe TSP off the map even if TSP does umpteen more Mumbais.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Jan 2009 09:35

http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/20/stories ... 001000.htm

India brings up Miliband again

Sandeep Dikshit

NEW DELHI: India on Monday reiterated its displeasure at British Foreign Secretary David Miliband observing last week that the Kashmir dispute was one of the “main calls to arms” for the terrorists. On a visit to the country, Mr. Miliband also urged India not to insist on extradition of the Mumbai terror attack suspects.

At a meeting here with a delegation of the British nuclear industry led by Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform Peter Mandelson, Minister of State for Commerce and Power Jairam Ramesh did some plain speaking.

He said that after consulting External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee he had first decided not to attend the meeting as a mark of protest against Mr. Miliband’s observations.

But Mr. Mukherjee later advised him to go to the meeting and mark India’s protest. Mr. Ramesh said India had been hospitable to the British for 400 years. In spite of the diplomatic spat caused by the “boorish behaviour” of the British Foreign Secretary, India would not put a cloud on the rest of the partnerships, especially in the civil nuclear arena, because of its centuries-old tradition of treating a guest like god.

Mr. Mandelson appreciated the Minister’s “honest” observations and said the U.K. stood fully with India in the fight against terrorism. The U.K. had no doubt that the Mumbai attacks were an act of unmitigated terror.

Mr. Mandelson said his country would work with India in “every possible way” to bring to book the perpetrators of the attacks and that there would be no compromise in this endeavour.

During his visit to the country, Mr. Miliband’s comments had led the External Affairs Ministry to state that India did not need “unsolicited advice” on its internal issues.

Millibund seems to have caught the babus and netas goat like no other(not even the Pakis)!!!!

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 20 Jan 2009 09:38

Boss its all

to every tom dick and harry
We are damned in every way possible with this GOI

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Jan 2009 09:46

Yes, its unusual to see the amount of

from the GoI on all subjects. How can the BRFites be faulted for following the lead of the govt of the day?

Is it only me or is seeing the Indo and Paki "briefings" to the world diplomats reminding me of two school children quarreling and asking some unconnected big boy to mediate and filling the third party's ears with their whines instead of sorting it out one way or the other.

I wont blame the external world to see India as a whining boy who is equal equal with Pak after our GoI conduct since 26/11.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Jan 2009 09:57

Meanwhile, more response (to hindu terror) from our govt:
Link

Purohit planned Israel-based Hindu govt-in-exile, support from Thai contacts: ATS chargesheet today

Mumbai: The Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad chargesheet in the Malegaon blast case claims that as per statements from the accused the town was singled out for the blast as “it was the ideal place where the Muslim community crowd was the maximum” and that prime accused Lt Col Prasad Purohit had told fellow conspirators it was time to set up a parallel, Hindu government-in-exile which could operate out of Israel and ensure a completely sashastra (armed) India.

Purohit, according to the chargesheet, promised “all logistic help” with finances from several quarters and support from some of his contacts in Thailand.

The ATS chargesheet, which includes two important confession statements, statements of witnesses under Section 164, laptop records, telephonic records, detailed SMSes and financial transactions across states, will be filed tomorrow in the designated MCOCA court chaired by sessions judge Y D Shinde.

The ATS will tell the court how a group called Abhinav Bharat became a “front organisation” for a conspiracy which led to an explosion at 9.26 pm on September 29, 2008 at Bhikku Chowk, Malegaon. While all eleven accused have been charged with conspiracy, logistics and execution of the blast, the key roles, according to the ATS, were those of Purohit, Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur and Sudhakar Dardwivedi alias Dayanand Pandey.

This will be the first case where a probe has been able to reach the conspirators — unlike other cases where only those who planted bombs have been arrested. In this case, the alleged bomb planters — Sameer Dange, Ramji Kalsangra — and Pravin Patil, another on the wanted list, remain at large. Patil also used the cover name of Mutalik and is a close aide of Purohit.

While the forensic finding of the chassis and engine number of the motorcycle used in the blast — it was a Gujarat registration number GJ-05-1920, owned by Pragya Singh Thakur — led the ATS to Gujarat, it was the statements of witnesses and the forensic report that helped the ATS build a strong case.

The ATS chargesheet has relied heavily on the statement of Sudhakar Chaturvedi (37), the last to be arrested, who said Purohit had called him on September 17, asking him to give the keys of his house in Deolali to a person named Pawar. According to the ATS, Pawar handed the keys to Ramji Kalsangra who along with some others used the house to assemble the bomb that was eventually used in Malegaon.

Its becoming so bizarre that it isnt even funny anymore...

archan · Post by **archan** » 20 Jan 2009 10:03

vsudhir wrote: AL makes an assumption that India's capacity to absorb hits is over.
Am not too sure about that. What if another series of bum blasts happened and Dilli reiterated that TSP too is a victim of terror?

We keep hearing time and again about TSP's talibanization but it may take forever, seems like. Anyway, since we have no option but to wait and react, might as well do so...

What I am hearing from the resident Indians is that they will have to continue to live like this, there will be more attacks, their lives are a matter or luck and that India cannot defeat TSP in conventional warfare without taking heavy losses - something India does not want to take. So BRFites can take a chill pill, because:

we are like that onlee

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 20 Jan 2009 11:23

Purohit planned Israel-based Hindu govt-in-exile, support from Thai contacts: ATS chargesheet today

Highly stupid a contention. One wonders if it is true,

If true, the man should be taken to a shrink and seen what is his actual problem.

It is important to check to realise how he went nuts, if indeed it is so and how to avoid such incidents happening again.

The Army is too sensitive an instrument in governance to have weird people, if indeed he is one!

I am shell shocked!

If not true, then the ATS should be taken to task.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 20 Jan 2009 11:27

ramana wrote: What AL is telling the TSP if you read the report without throwing a fit is that TSP wont be there if there is another attack on US or India for the restraint will be off. This is because the capacity to absorb hits is over. He is number #1 supporter of TSP. he is advising the TSP not to idulge in the acts anymore.

Surely looks like bakis are to be on a tight leash (per AL) and can't indulge in further attacks unless when needed and instructed by interested parties. Bakis have gone rogue, and freedom granted for rogueness is being curtailed. Because, unkil has grand plans for bakis and does not want to loose this very volatile pawn, so early in the game.

Ramanaji what you are saying is leading onto certain implications. For this to fully register, would like to understand answers to more questions below.

Bakistan - India can live without bakistan (if wiped off the map)as alluded. Good riddance.

But who cannot live without Bakistan? What exactly is Bakistan being groomed for by unkil, apart from the great game scenario? Surely, wiping of bakistan is going to be very very costly to someone (discounting Bakis) and possibly that someone cannot live without bakis.
Are Bakis the 'demon in the freezer'?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 20 Jan 2009 12:50

Why do I still have some kind of hope left in me?

Hmm..This is the Congress. So I would expect things them to ignore everything and anyone and act according to their narrow self-preserving needs!
An attack in December would have died out quickly.
With elections looming large, Feb, March seems to be the right time. An extension of their tenure likely should things get delayed or prolonged. Elections thereafter with Congress basking in their glory!

Why do I still have some kind of hope left in me?

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 20 Jan 2009 13:12

Neela wrote:Why do I still have some kind of hope left in me?

You might have read Maithili Sharan Gupt.

Nar ho , Naa niraash karo Mann Ko !

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 20 Jan 2009 16:45

Colleagues at my company had collected some contributions which were today handed over to the wife of Martyr Gajender Singh.
A very humbling experience to see her in person. She was accompanied by an NSG person in civies, who is on a sky marshal duty.

Did people on BRF make some collective contributions?

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 20 Jan 2009 17:23

Arjun Singh for judicial enquiry into Batla House incident

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 20 Jan 2009 17:30

[quote="sunilUpa"][/quote]

What will it take for people like these to start respecting the sacrifice of Delhi Police and MC Sharma specifically , that encounter in all fairness broke the back of the IM and helped trace the roots to software professionals , Azamgargh etc involved in this evil nexus.

Arjun Singh can go take a hike , an inquiry into the encounter is simply not acceptable.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Jan 2009 17:30

Poor Condy Rice.I wonder what the Pakis gave her as a farewell gift,that made her speak so.Poor Pak needs "understanding".What about the poor victims of Paki terrorism,including the US ones,including the two CIA operatives murdered at the Taj ,Daniel Pearl,those US troops being killed in Afghanistan,even those victims of 9/11? Don't the feelings of their families also need to be understood too?

Condy Rice is a zealous archangel of the Dubya Bush's "Christian" fundamentalist regime,who along with the neo-Cons and the fascist members of the Republican extreme right comitted those horrific war crimes in Iran and Afghanistan.The hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq,etc.,the abuses at torutre camps at Abu Ghraib,Camp "Gitmo" and the many secret torture camps that Bush and Condy set up around the globe,unknown to the civilised world ,are the direct result of the policies of the regime,where Dubya Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld,Rove and Condy where the chief forces of darkness that spread state terror,torture,evil and racism across the civilised world.Condy Rice was the female "Aunty Condy" of our time,who zealously and willingly partook and planned some of the worst human right atrocities since WW2.Falsehood and dishonour were the hallmarks of the Bush era and its barefaced lying about Saddam's non-existant WMDs and Iran's nukes,where another war was definitely on the cards, foiled at the last minute by the global economic collapse which itself was triggered off by uncontrollable US corporate greed that has devoured the planet in far greater terms than even its abominable military madness.

In all these grand schemes to dominate and enslave mankind,Condy Rice was the archangel,or rather "black witch" of darkness,whose lying tongue was the first assault on the defences of civilisation,first at the UN,which was abused into paralysis against the diplomatic onslaught of Rice,allowing the "Nazgul" of Cheney,Rumsfeld,Rove,etc.,to unleash their messengers of death upon the Islamic world.These latter day "Crusaders" were hell bent upon achieving Armageddon in our lifetime and had not the Iraqi resistance and Bush's incompetence in forgetting to defeat the Taliban,by throttling Pakistan and its army into submission on the Afghan front,the entire Middle East might very well be engulfed in a war that as was the case in WW1,be the opening shots for a global conflict about control of the world's energy resources,through the first religious western "Crusade" against the latter day "Saracens" of Iraq,Iran and Afghanistan.

PS:If we in India plan our response to Pak based upon the utterances and advice of Rice,the dear Lord foirgive us for betraying our nation's interests and that of her peoples.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2009 19:04

JwalaMukhi, I ask you a question in return? What state do the vocal supporters of TSP belong to?

Texmati is making token statements. So count her out.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 20 Jan 2009 19:13

Idi Amin of Uganda made the British Foreign Secretary or whatever that came to visit him, approach on all fours and remain on his knees during the Audience that He granted. It was that or get eaten, and the British went with common sense. The British of this generation, brought up in the likes of Brighton and South Londonistan, are really not used to dealing with decent people.

Hope this is the end of Milligand. To have official declarations describe "BOORISH BEHAVIOR" on the part of a Foreign Secretary, is quite remarkable.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Jan 2009 20:51

ramana, from your earlier post, regarding the non responsive govt.. and you did end up pointing about the "limits"... that AL type of thoughts do bring up that don't cross that line!.. and if you do so, then become silica. sure it is quite enough argument, to realize that there exists something called the bounds of any type of "state" [behavioral].

again... to bring up economic stability, there is no logic in preventing military strengthening that would be an inverse logic to it? i do agree, about the position and politics being played.. but i also see the weakening is within our setup at large than these biskoot walas., cause its our responsiveness to elect a team to lead us is fractured, and we are so divided to get any form of 2/3rds any more in the future, to take strong decisions. IG had that kind of leadership and controlled aggression cause of the election mandate.

how should we blame our non-responsiveness? babooze or "us"?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2009 21:17

us not US.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 21 Jan 2009 00:23

This is anti-response to terrorism, not 'non-response'.

PM mulling probe into the Batla House encounter

But before you hit the prozac, wait!

Turns out this is from the fevered swamp in Sri sri Arjun singh ji's musharraf. Whew, that's a relief!

Then, we do know that its not that the UPA has decided to now cut the police forces and other law enforcement agencies to size after putting IA in its place, but rather Arjun Singh, long past his useful life, angling for a vote-bank bailout.

Union Minister for Human Resource and Development Arjun Singh indicated on Tuesday that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is mulling a judicial probe into the Batla House gun battle in which the Delhi Police killed two suspected Indian Mujahideen terrorists.

Speaking to reporters in New Delhi, Singh said, "As far as I understand, even the Prime Minister is thinking over this issue."

He, however, declined to elaborate about his talks between him and the Prime Minister on the issue saying "this is something privileged".

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 21 Jan 2009 00:45

even the Prime Minister is thinking over this issue."

Wow! Did he mean for it to come out that way I wonder..

Nash_M · Post by **Nash_M** » 21 Jan 2009 02:48

All this makes me wonder How NDA would have reacted after Mumbai attack..

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 21 Jan 2009 02:50

Easy.

We will choose Insaniyat to counter Pakistani Insanitya!

- Poojya ABV

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 21 Jan 2009 03:01

Haar ya Faraar
Not.
Aar ya Paar

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Jan 2009 03:19

Millibund seems to have caught the babus and netas goat like no other(not even the Pakis)!!!!

GoI has graduated from "brits do no tknow how to behave with elders" to "boorish"!

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 21 Jan 2009 04:33

The Pakis think they have dodged the bullet, and the storm has passed. Hence, they figure it is time to rub it in. Edit from Paki paper:

However, apart from the international community, the real blame should lie on India, which is misusing an unfortunate tragedy of its own creation against Pakistan to make the international community jump on Pakistan...

The Indian attempt to portray the Mumbai carnage as an act of terrorism, and in addition as fomented by Pakistan, is going to collapse because of a lack of evidence.

Link

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 21 Jan 2009 04:54

Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai?

What about Desi's non -response to the liberal left of India and its leadership for being surrender monkeys (these 5th column enemy from within who are helping these pak terrorists get away scott free?).

How are the patriots going to fight the far lefty menace in India?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Jan 2009 05:26

One of the reasons as to why the GOI did not respond militarily could be because of what Asia Times Online article states (Cross Posting)

Indian army 'backed out' of Pakistan attack

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 21 Jan 2009 06:46

So the strategy is...

1) Weaken the Indian armed forces

2) then put the blame on the Indian Army for not being prepared.

Niiicccccccce!

Its all the more reason, we should turn our anger at India's left ruling parties. Without cleaning house, there is no way we can defeat outside enemies. We can't fight foreign enemies if other Indians are working against you and stabbing you from behind.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Jan 2009 06:59

Manny wrote:So the strategy is...

1) Weaken the Indian armed forces

2) then put the blame on the Indian Army for not being prepared.

Niiicccccccce!

Its all the more reason, we should turn our anger at India's left ruling parties. Without cleaning house, there is no way we can defeat outside enemies. We can't fight foreign enemies if other Indians are working against you and stabbing you from behind.

This was my first thought. Use this oppertunity to clean the house and eliminate the known traitors . But look like rot is high up there with cleaners themselves.