Strategic leadership for the future of India

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Jan 2009 04:15

And I dont see your raising the question of Islam in this whole thing.
Commies, the lesser the said about them the better it is. They base their policy at the behest of China. These are the guys who have created the Bangladeshi problem for India through manipulation of the electoral records, giving them ration cards and all the rights of being an Indian so that they vote for them for the rest of their lives. Now these people roam all over India freely.

I have read somewhere, that even Lalooji's regime was involved in legitimizing Bangladeshis. We do not really know whether, non-Left regimes of the right type, have also not been indulging in this. The left has never been in power in UP, but I would not let its regimes out of the radar. I gues it is more about existing concentrations of Muslim populations that prompts thsi type of legitimization with a view towards electoral support, rather than any ideological commitment per se.

It may not be entirely correct that the Chinese dictate all left policy on the subcontinent. The greatest enemies of the Naxals or the CPI(ML)'s are the CPI(M)'s. They run a less publicized running war of attrition. The Maoists may be more in touch with the Chinese though.

The primary common characteristics between the two ideologies I hinted at are as follows :
(a) Both claim to be a complete break from previous philosophies, and regimes. Both claim to be levellers of social divides. Both claim to restore socio-economic justice. Both represent all previous ideologies/regimes as periods of darkness and suffering. Both claim to be realizations of social forces guided by inexorable trends (in one case suprahuman supreme authority - in the other, a kind of abstract collective force resulting from economic and social interactions). Both advocate liquidation of "opposition" if necessary by force, and the state power as essentially a dictatorial regime which gives power to the previous "underclass". Both see "terror" in the hands of a state machine as necessary to impose a new just social order. Both believe in the "leadership/dictatorship" of a special "party of vanguards" whose claims to leadership are based on a proper understanding of, and loyalty to the ideology.

(b) Both fail on the promise to level social hierarchies. Both fail to ensure equality of justice. Both ultimately give rise to a kind of "party rule" which practices limited democracy within but basically chooses leadership by selection from the top. Both lead to suppression of various aspects of modern thought and academics that are seen to be a threat to the regime. Both fail to rise above nationalism or ethnic divides, and usually are not able to rise above any preexisting tendency for imperialism.

The failure of both ideologies on the Indian subcontinent follow along (b). This is the reason, in spite of the great promises in (a) that won "converts" in the early stages, these ideologies will not be great tools for future consolidation and development of the Indian subcontinent.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Jan 2009 23:48

The TSP political leadership is now gloating over David Miliband's boasts about raising the Kashmir issue. Musharraf is on screen splashed around the world, raising the Kashmir issue in the US. The Indian political leadership has shown its complete lack of strategic leadership capabilities. It has now allowed the entire pain and trauma of the Mumbai attacks to be transformed into the Kashmir issue - and that too on TSP terms. What are the TSP terms - that Islam is being targeted in Kashmir, that Kashmiri Muslims are being repressed, and that the whole of Kashmir should be reclaimed in the name of Islam, and preferably in the name of Pakistan. Here the needs of the TSP political leadership to escape blame and complicity in the Mumbai attacks coincide with that of the TSPA and the ISI, and is a nice turnover into the occupation of whole of Kashmir agenda of TSP.

The TSP has shown much more startegic thinking capabilities compared to GOI. But why is TSP able to hijack and convert terror attacks into Kashmir? This is because the Indian elite denies the basic problem - and it is even more active in suppressing the real causes behind Islamic terror than TSP itself. Indian elite will do everything it can to suppress public discourse in national and international media that exposes the real motivations behind Islam professing terror or terror from Pakistan. By refusing to allow any discussion of the ideological motivations that hide darkest of biological greed, that is ultimately used by the theologian networks to whip up genocidic terror against non-Muslims - by refusing to allow exposure of the genocidic, terroristic history of Islamic regimes on the Indian subcontinent, by refusing to take up the atrocities on Kashmiri Hindus publicly in the world media right from the time the atrocities had started, the Indian elite has itself shut off all avenues to fight this strategic campaign by TSP. Non-Muslims are even now divided and do more to suppress each other than expose TSP's ulterior motives - but there are hardly any dissenting voices from within TSP - putting up an united front in the international media. TSP enjoys the fruits of strategic unity - while India enjoys the strategic fruits of unification of diversity, and at a political level TSP has already won.

Indians feel bad in talking about atrocities on non-Muslims, TSP doesn't have any hesitation in talking about atrocities on Muslims. TSP has media-savvy and forceful Musharraf batting for it in front of the world media - proud of his country's terrorist record, of his army, of his ISI - and is allowed to give speeches at Stanford. Indians have stuttering Panu-da, or Chidamish with "cat-got-the-cream" permanent smile, or mumbling/bleating MMS probably thinking of being able to block Modi's visit to the US as their career's high point.

The sheer conviction and determination and complete lack of self-censorship as regards Islamic objective for the subcontinent will give TSP the win. Indians will restrict themselves, and kill off all voices that jar on their sensibilities of "communalism" so that it is only the TSP story of atrocities on Muslims that reverberates throughout the world.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 18 Jan 2009 00:58

US to triple non-military aid to Pakistan: Clinton

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... on/410597/

Not sure if this had been posted before.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Jan 2009 06:16

Thanks Abhi_G,

US to triple non-military aid to Pakistan: Clinton
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... on/410597/

Yes, this is probably an indication of the basically static military strategy that will be pushed through. Obama will try to hold and stabilize operational lines. More "economic" aid to TSP will be converted into building up the Talebs and ISI. So that ultimately US and NATO will have to withdraw. Those of us who were hoping to economically starve TSP should now realize that US will simply crash all such hopes. The brilliant "Indian" leadership in the US who decided to pull for Obama should now realize what a great service they have done to their "uhrheimat". Obama+Clinton will manage to retreat from Afghanaistan leaving a much strengthened TSP+Taleb+Qaeda combination that will unleash itself on India. Indian strategic leadership will have to obessessively, paranoidly work towards developing its own military capabilities, invest in defence research, and start thinking new strategic lines of alliance.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jan 2009 20:53

op-Ed in Pioneer, 19 jan., 2009

India needs a miracle

Arun Nehru

The global economic situation is looking grim and 2009 is going to be a very difficult year. Being part of the global fraternity we cannot remain insulated. I have been predicting for well over six months now that if we can achieve even 5 per cent GDP growth in the current financial year it will be a miracle. We are capable of miracles and this is a window of opportunity for all leaders of the future in all disciplines to turn possible negatives into positives.

In times of crisis coalition governance appears to be nothing more than collective confusion. And whilst we have a multiplicity of laws, regulations and personnel in various wings of governance, nothing works in a crisis situation. We witnessed this during the 26/11 Mumbai attack and we see this now in the form of massive fraud at Satyam perpetrated by former chairman Ramalinga Raju. Many a VIP has now resigned from the company board — former President APJ Abdul Kalam was a director — thinking it best to distance oneself from the fraud. I learnt from media reports that Mr Raju will hire a team of 25 lawyers to plead his case. But I wonder who will pay their fees given Mr Raju and his family have already squandered Rs 7,000 crore of public money. Do they have assets in excess of this amount?

Political connections are obvious and will come into play as media pressure declines. I wonder what will happen after three months when Mr Ramalinga Raju and his family members are released on bail and the legal process starts in court of law! We have witnessed more than a miracle in the Jessica Lall, Priyadarshini Mattoo and Nitish Katara cases (I hope the Uphaar case will eventually fall in this category) and credit for this goes entirely to the media and a handful of individuals who risked more than their reputations in pursuing and reviving these cases.

Public opinion cannot be ignored by either the political or legal fraternity and this is what will be needed in the Satyam/Maytas fraud and I wonder if the police and the CID in Andhra Pradesh will subject Mr Ramalinga Raju, his brothers, sons, accountants to a narco test as they do in other crimes? The current Andhra Pradesh Government has given more than Rs 40,000 crore worth of orders to Maytas (run by Mr Raju’s son) and I wonder if this will be even a bigger scam than Satyam’s.

Former VVIP and VIP directors of Satyam who issue sermons on ethics and morality and who are supposed to be role models should declare and return their board fees which go into lakhs of rupees as companies of Mr Ramalinga Raju and his family have cheated the public and the common man. Besides, this would also send a good signal to the investors. The scam has many dimensions which will unravel once the trial begins. These will definitely have implications for the upcoming general elections and many a reputation will be ruined as further disclosures will reveal the extent of the fraud.

In Andhra Pradesh the TDP-TRS-Left combination will score heavily in Telangana and the TDP/PP will pose a formidable challenge in the coastal region of the State. The ruling Congress Government here and in particular the Chief Minister is under pressure. The linkages between Satyam and Maytas and the State Government are quite clear and even a motivated media campaign cannot alter the fact that huge benefits were given to the tainted companies by the Mr Rajasekhar Reddy’s Government.

The State CID has much to do and any cover up will cause intense damage to the Congress at the Centre. My personal assessment is that it will be difficult to prove the Congress’s or any other party’s direct involvement with the fraud. But sadly indiscriminate political funding at the State level can result in huge scams.

A handful of individuals are wrecking the reputation of political parties and sadly, the leaders are unable to act and prevent this extortion. The Satyam/Maytas saga is very much a land scam and a fraud but it would be wrong to paint the entire real estate industry with the same brush.

The ‘boom and bust’ situation that accompanies the setting up of special economic zones can affect the best of companies with a temporary cash flow crunch. The situation could get accentuated with a drop in growth from 9 per cent to 4 to 5 per cent. The Indian industry has produced many a miracle in the last four years. This is not the time to find fault but to understand our short-term needs and to help create another miracle in 2009. The challenges for the current year are very different from 2008 and unless the decision-makers in the Government think differently and abandon the rule book, we are bound to encounter choppy waters ahead.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 20 Jan 2009 04:28

A handful of individuals are wrecking the reputation of political parties and sadly, the leaders are unable to act and prevent this extortion. The Satyam/Maytas saga is very much a land scam and a fraud but it would be wrong to paint the entire real estate industry with the same brush.

The effect is noted, but the cause is not given. When I first clashed with "political leadership" over an article I had written, I thought my analysis only "hurt" leftist parties. My basic premise was that, it was hierarchical intra-organization elections for leadership positions that gave rise to political corruption and alienation of the party from the people. Very simply put, the existing leadership will then try to bring in new recruits into the party whose personal loyalty can be ensured. Those recruits will be personally loyal who have "weaknesses" and are less capable than the leader. At each stage therefore leaders are elected who are dependent on their "higher ups" for position and power, and are themselves increasingly incompetent, inefffective, and corrupt. Ultimately the organization reaches a stage where the whole organization becomes ineffective. If it has somehow reached state power, it will continue in power using the state machinery to ensure electoral victories. If there is no competition from something better, people simply vote for them out of necessity.

But while writing in BR, I increasingly realize, that the same phenomenon actually goes around in non-left parties too. This is a dilemma of decision making by the majority principle - this will make numbers important, and therefore the eventual mad rush to get the "numbers". Honestly, realizing the phenomenon to be more universal than just the Left, I have not yet come up with an alternative that in some sense does not resemble aauthroitarianism. However, my way of bypassing this problem is to reduce the required number of political positions accommodated within a state system. Best go for a small number of leaders directly elected by the people, only for running the basic policy engine, and try to gradually make as much of the routine services and decisions automatic/rule based/due process as possible.

The ‘boom and bust’ situation that accompanies the setting up of special economic zones can affect the best of companies with a temporary cash flow crunch. The situation could get accentuated with a drop in growth from 9 per cent to 4 to 5 per cent. The Indian industry has produced many a miracle in the last four years. This is not the time to find fault but to understand our short-term needs and to help create another miracle in 2009. The challenges for the current year are very different from 2008 and unless the decision-makers in the Government think differently and abandon the rule book, we are bound to encounter choppy waters ahead.

India has to bring in anti-trust laws, and increase competitive opportunities within itself. The world market cannot be relied upon as the engine of growth. But investment strategy has to change to create more entrepreneurs. Leadership for the long term srategic thinking has to consider giving access to capital to those who have no chance under the established system. India's leadership has three crucial economic challenges - (a) enabling and capacity building of all individuals (compuslory education/health care/access to productive resources) (b) settling the "land question" (land use/transition from land based to capital based production/protecting "land" interests of marginal producers dependent on land) (c) increasing "direct" markets - where producers and consumers can transact directly.

Infrastructure wise challenges are three, (a) energy generation (b) sustainable self-sufficient urbanization (c) information network capacity increase aimed at becoming the information processing hub for most of the world.

Security wise challenges are also three (a) all round increase in the capacity of the army for needed strategic expansion on the subcontinent (b) politico-military alliances to neutralize PRC (c) internal liquidation of extremists.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Jan 2009 03:32

Kalyan Singh has left the BJP, and says that he regrets "returning to the BJP". BJP says he has "embarassed" the party. There are speculations that Kalyan Singh may be found in the future in the SP camp. BJP has also claimed that he has been siding with "forces" he has ideologicall opposed all along. Here we need not go into the detailed politics involving individuals. But can we take this as an ongoing process of "filtering" and realignment of political forces? And what does this process of realignment hold for the future of leadership in India?

In Indian politics there was never any possibility of the Right until the rise of the BJP. The Left was minuscule but held an influence out of proportion with its size because of international situation. The Congress could never be properly characterized as Right. It was a party of the "centre" as most dynastic ploitical groupings usually are. Basically it swung Right or Left as it suited the leader. However even the BJP did not show very obvious Right wing tendencies, and it cautiously probed and allied with the various political clouds around the "centre" to take the first steps towards state power.

The Left and the centre experiments are failing, and in the future the roles of these two forces will be dubious for leadership, particularly on consolidation of the nation. The BJP showed some promise in its Right leaning policies. But so far BJP has failed to show consolidation of a core of leadership which can unite all the forces in favour of a nationalist paradigm. Its most prominent and "popular" (okay, focus of popular attention and adulation - and not necessarily "affection") leaders yet remain regional figures. People like Kalyan Singh have always been embarassments - and only now BJP acknowledges this problem. Why does the Right wing show this continuing problem of leadership? Does Kalyan Singh's removal show an awareness of the problem? If all three - the Right, Left and Centre fail to provide leadership - together with other factors, Thalheimer's preconditions for Bonapartism/Fascism could apply to India's future. (a weak working class that threatens to take state power but has either failed or retreated, the "owner" elite or capitalist class is not disciplined enough to act for "common" interest and is self-defeating or self-harming, in this vacuum - it is the elite which allows/sponsors a suitable candidate as popular focus and authority. Such authority imposes discipline on the capiltalist elite, subdues the working class, and allows capitalism to develop until the point is reached when the authority is no longer needed and is discarded).

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 21 Jan 2009 04:02

brihaspati wrote: ....... However even the BJP did not show very obvious Right wing tendencies, and it cautiously probed and allied with the various political clouds around the "centre" to take the first steps towards state power.

The Left and the centre experiments are failing, and in the future the roles of these two forces will be dubious for leadership, particularly on consolidation of the nation. The BJP showed some promise in its Right leaning policies. But so far BJP has failed to show consolidation of a core of leadership which can unite all the forces in favour of a nationalist paradigm. Its most prominent and "popular" (okay, focus of popular attention and adulation - and not necessarily "affection") leaders yet remain regional figures........

Brihaspati,
One word - caste.

With the rise of BJP came also the wave of mandalisation. This wave was stopped to an extent but even today has lots of power left in it. An Indian has many identities, of which at some times, some identities take precedence.

One more thing, to think that Indian politics is won at the centre level (after 80s) is wrong. They are won mostly at the sub-state level, example (the nodal point is not andhra Pradesh but telangana in ap). If you need to win them, you need sort of regional/caste sartarps.

To win an election in India, 25% is the winning mark not 50% - so it gives a lot of leeway if you want to divide people and still win the election. BSPs rise is a case in point, its base of SCs around 20% was consolidated by using the slogans of "beat brahmins" but when it realized that the 20% will not push BSP over the winning mark, it actively courted the brahmins.

For the person on the ground in India, the western paradigm of left,right and center doesnt fit.

Edit: BJP could have easily won Rajasthan had it curbed the internal fissures, even then 79-96(for congress) cannot be termed as too bad an outcome.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Jan 2009 04:30

ravii_ku wrote
For the person on the ground in India, the western paradigm of left,right and center doesnt fit.

I do agree fully. I only used them for convenience of discussion here.

I also agree to the multiple identity problem. We have been trying in other threads to thrash out some means of bringing in a super-identity that gives priority to national identification over and above all others. But would you agree, that BJP still does not appear to have solved the leadership problem - I do not mean for the immediate future or 2009 elections, but longer term - for all the tremendous tasks ahead?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2009 04:53

I present a youtube video for folks to get a sense of the future as seen by some Westerners.

http://www.youtube.com/v/cL9Wu2kWwSY

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jan 2009 07:32

ramana wrote:I present a youtube video for folks to get a sense of the future as seen by some Westerners.

http://www.youtube.com/v/cL9Wu2kWwSY

Interesting video - designed to cause paranoia and fear.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 23 Jan 2009 07:37

There is no fear mongering there.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jan 2009 08:18

Anurag wrote:There is no fear mongering there.

That is what you are supposed to think. But just state that it does not cause YOU fear. It's not you its aimed at.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2009 08:22

not assimilated enough yet.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Jan 2009 19:15

It probably is aimed at a bit of shocking its viewers. I have written before, and still think, that the enormous acceleration of complexity in modern technological knowledge societies, itself creates certain problems. And these problems are going to be felt more acutely by cultures that have thrived on simplifications of ideology and complexity in social organizations.

I do think India will fare much better than the west. Mainly for two reasons : (a) it has a theory of renunciation. When things get far too complex to handle, simply give up and leave and lead life of simplicity. This was the original concept of Banaprastha (well they do seem to have had all "modern" amenities there - cottages, fields and help - Mahabharatam's description of the retirement of the Kuru elderly - except ofcourse the risk of forest fire, does not seem to have changed in California or Oz). (b) and which for me is significant, is India's continued tradition of maintaining complexity, in social organization, in education, in language, mathematics and music. Unlike the west, which because of past imperial requirements adopted monotheism and homogenization based on authority and simple structured rule based compulsory behaviour - India has never really given up on complexity. Complexity has kept the Indian mind alert, while the West has retreated more and more into social and intellectual retardation.

For the future, we should build on these strengths, and reject those which reduce our chances of using these strengths. For example, if a social hierarchy prevents access to education or opprotunities to innovate, then we lose out a chunk of population whose Indian minds could be sharpened by "grinding" on complexity and overall multiply production of intellectual/ideas/objects capital. More communication and subjection of the Indian mind to increased knowledge bombardment would be a key to loosen up social-bottlenecks and really taking on the world. I see the you-tube video as indication of great opportunity for India. By the way, any serious strategic leadership should think of getting an even better version of that Japanese optical fibre and practically enmesh the subcontinent. A calculation for getting the entire globes IT traffic processed through India as a hub for the next 100 years is a good strategic leadership target.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 23 Jan 2009 20:18

The petition link does not seem to be working..Also, is it possible to post this link on the front page of BR, what about at other sites, newspapers etc ?.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 23 Jan 2009 20:38

brihaspati wrote:
2010 Take the above and plan accordingly! What will be the disruptions of the next 25 years?

For the Caliphate to progress, it will need money. Currently, this money comes from oil. In the next 25 years, arab oil revenues may decrease as oil runs out, and as the west moves to alternative sources of energy. The move to alternate sources of energy is a monumental change, similar to the start of the industrial revolution from an agricultural economy. At present, we cannot even imagine the changes that this will bring. Do you remember that 15-20 years ago, there was no internet, no cell phones, no DVD players, no IPODs. The west has realized that it makes no sense to fork over money to the arabs, because it comes back as terrorism.

The Arab century will soon be over. I am convinced this has been the pinnacle of their achievement (with the recent peak in oil), from now on its going to be all down hill. Once oil runs out, nuclear energy will be in. Have you noticed that most of the Uranium producers are in the west ?. Soon the balance of power will change. As of now, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear power, sweden wants to be 100% free of oil. For this reasom MMS did the right thing by providing access to nuclear fuel. We now have a head start..

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Jan 2009 21:11

Guddu wrote :The Arab century will soon be over.

A very good point. But when the Arabs started conquering they did not have oil. They had just come out of a global drought, which had destroyed the trade networks (on which they depended) connecting more productive economies. It was this famished homeland and their drive to get hold of wealth and resources and fertile irrigated lands that fuelled the attacks on India. So in fact when the oil runs out it could be even more dangerous. Moreover, as yet, most weapons of war would be dependent on oil - think of air operations. So if any state wanted to redraw the maps one final time before oil ran out, and flight technologies were still dependent on oil, the best time would be to do it right before the oil runs out. Or start up low intensity wars, so that those who have plenty of oil stores and a large stash of weapons will expend them in a futile fight on difficult terrain, while you sit tight on your oil sources, and pretend that it is running out. Once the "advanced" country's stocks run out, go for the offensive. It could all once again come down to good old bows and arrows, and horses and swords and shields and spears - yeah maybe some gunpowder.

There is still not good replacements for oil in certain crucial quarters especially important for startegic arenas. You can see how merry a dance Rus and middle-east can lead UK and EU through on oil and gas. Also India's enegy needs are going to be so large that foreseeable expansion of nuclear power may not be able to meet all. Unless India is seriously thinking of and manage to develop commercial fusion tech. The danger point will be if Arab does try out the strategic move I described above - low intensity war to expend resources of the enemy, pretend low oil stocks, and then move on for the kill once "sophistication" spends itself.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 23 Jan 2009 21:26

brihaspati wrote:
Guddu wrote :The Arab century will soon be over.
It could all once again come down to good old bows and arrows, and horses and swords and shields and spears - yeah maybe some gunpowder.

Maybe this is OT, but Brihaspatiji, it makes sense once again to raise a child from each family to be a soldier or at least kick start a tradition like that. This may be really absurd

at this point of time and may not have any strategic value . But given the scenario you are referring to and the kind of modern tech and luxury we are getting used to, we seriously have to think about the no oil and no available alternative scenario. Sounds stupid but it again boils down to restoring and remembering our experiences about war with our ancient, middle age and pre modern enemies.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 23 Jan 2009 21:39

Abhi_G wrote
But given the scenario you are referring to and the kind of modern tech and luxury we are getting used to, it again boils down to restoring and remembering our experiences about war with our ancient, middle age and pre modern enemies.

Actually, for the future - good health, fitness and muscular strength should be part of a national programme. Some countries do have various degrees of compulsory military service for males, and some countries like Israel includes women too. For India, women could be deputed for internal security entirely in paramilitary forces, while men go for external operations (please do not accuse me of gender discrimination

I would actually vote for female dominance in the police, would make it much thinner along the waistlines and more humane). Vivekananda (once again considering him not as a religious leader only

) was most keen on exercise and bodybuilding - its another story that they turned out to be recruiment grounds for anti-British movements.

A short term compuslory military service could be a great service to the nation, serving as a melting pot of various fractured socital parts coming together with a common purpose and identity.

sreeji · Post by **sreeji** » 23 Jan 2009 21:47

Brihaspati,
You seem to have some respect for the capabilities of the arabs. But, the arab countries are kingdoms ruled by kings. Kings whose morality and foresight make our politicians look good. Morover the US must have by now infiltrated Arab intelligentsia

and are probably remote controlling the arabs. Or am I missing something here?

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 23 Jan 2009 22:01

brihaspati wrote: Vivekananda (once again considering him not as a religious leader only ) was most keen on exercise and bodybuilding - its another story that they turned out to be recruiment grounds for anti-British movements.

Swamiji blended spiritual and strategic thoughts. One example is the case of how IISc Bangalore was envisaged between him and Tata during their voyage and followed up by Tata and the generous Maharaja of Mysore.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2009 22:07

It should be sold as a national health/wellness initiative. India should not lose its demographic advantage.

Brihaspatiji, I am going to request you confine yourself to a few threads for one cant chase you all over to glean wisdom!

BTW, how is the drought cycle study coming up? And do visit the history thread and comment on dhu's post.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 23 Jan 2009 22:12

brihaspati wrote:
Guddu wrote :The Arab century will soon be over.

Moreover, as yet, most weapons of war would be dependent on oil -
There is still not good replacements for oil in certain crucial quarters especially important for startegic arenas. You can see how merry a dance Rus and middle-east can lead UK and EU through on oil and gas. Also India's enegy needs are going to be so large that foreseeable expansion of nuclear power may not be able to meet all.

Yes, as Kurzweil says, the pace of change is accelerating. Once electricity became available, the kerosene lanterns disappeared, similarly oil will always be around, but its use will diminish exponentially. Pl. see link [http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/nex ... 2.17b.html][/url], I remember reading about mobile nuclear reactors that could run your car. Now imagine if in 20 years, cars and planes ran on nuclear reactors, or other non-oil based sources. The important thing is that steps are being taken to move away from oil and that all of this development is taking place outside the gulf countries.

India's future is bright, if we can continue to have world class educational institutions, if we continue to work with the leaders in the field (the west). To achieve this we need educated leaders, our current generation of leaders need to be retired!. Such a change has just happened in the US.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 23 Jan 2009 22:24

Shiv guruvu garu said

ramana wrote:
I present a youtube video for folks to get a sense of the future as seen by some Westerners.

http://www.youtube.com/v/cL9Wu2kWwSY

Interesting video - designed to cause paranoia and fear.
ramana wrote:I present a youtube video for folks to get a sense of the future as seen by some Westerners.

http://www.youtube.com/v/cL9Wu2kWwSY

Interesting video - designed to cause paranoia and fear.

Intimidating it is, by virtue of exposing the exponential growth in data, but it is not information in itself, as it needs meta data and context. When that is added, based on the information it morphs into, it can generate emotion such as fear, enlightenment etc which when combined with dicrimination power between good and bad (based on values, traditions, culture) to act (stimulus to) becomes wisdom!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2009 22:32

Umarao jaan you are getting affliected with saiitis! What does you psot mean?

BTW,, that video was circulated as a diversity message but at same time to rasie the fear of the SDRE as they will eat your lunch eventually.

BTW the reason I posted the video was GSubramaniam, one of our prolific posters who gets banned regularly, had said the same thing that the number of people with IQ>110 in India is much greater than the total population of most countries in the world.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Jan 2009 22:51

Here is some information on the Video 'Did you Know?' Study the section 'Suggestions for using the Presentation'

http://shifthappens.wikispaces.com/

Karl Fisch and Scott McLeod (they appear on the credits as well) state they are US educators and their perspective is going to be America-centric.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2009 00:48

A lamnet form Pioneer, 24 jan., 2009

Why Delhi can never be DC

Ashok Malik

At the end of a remarkable and historic week in Washington, DC, it was difficult to not envy the character and traditions of transition in the world’s power capital. Some attributes stood out on January 20, when President Barack Obama took office, and in the build-up to the date.

The sobriety, the dignity, the weight of hundreds of millions of hopes — Washington’s political elite acted as it felt decency demanded of it. The contrast with Delhi was too obvious to be missed.

At the outset, let it be stressed it is not the quality of democracy that is being measured. It is not as if American democracy is in any manner superior to Indian democracy. The complex matrix of individual freedom, group bargaining, transactional motivations and local factors that propels the average American’s vote is no different from that of an average Indian. In the Midwest and in Madhya Bharat, democracy marches to the same drummer.

Neither is this to suggest that Washington, DC, is somehow a shining metropolis far removed from Lutyens’ conspiratorial city. Both capitals have their dirty deals and deal-makers, lobbies and interest groups, entrenched bureaucracies, fixers and fixtures.

Yet, a sense of renewal is almost institutionalised into the transition in Washington’s federal administration. The conclusion of the election process — with the new set taking charge — becomes what it should be: A celebration of democracy and of all that is good and great in a free society. In Delhi, so often, it only gives way to bitterness and recriminatory anger.

True, part of the reason is the nature of the parliamentary system. In the United States, voters elect a clear winner. When they don’t, as in the contentious 2000 election, the ill-will extends for weeks. However, what is the exception there has become the rule here.

In India, the messy nature of coalition politics means that negotiations often begin after the votes are counted. Compromise drafts for a governance agenda are hammered out. Brinkmanship is resorted to in choices of Ministers and Ministries.

In 1998, Ms Jayalalithaa kept Mr Atal Bihari Vajpayee waiting and waiting before she furnished a letter of support from the AIADMK. Mr N Chandrababu Naidu agreed to a Telugu Desam MP becoming Lok Sabha Speaker under such stringent conditions and with such an impossible deadline that a control room in Delhi had to monitor flight timings and airport clearances.

In 2004, even before the UPA could take office, the Left went ballistic on television and announced it was going to destroy the stock markets, economic reforms, Indian capitalism, whatever.

Elections are sacred moments. There is something solemn, spiritual and emotionally moving about a process in which the proverbial last woman in the last village helps shape the destiny of a nation, and humbles smug power practitioners in a distant capital city.

The swearing in of a new President or a new Government is the political class’s occasion for thanksgiving, to tell the electorate its voice has been heard and honoured. It sanctifies the transition and the election that preceded it as a new beginning. That is what Washington, DC, experienced this past week. In Delhi, however, politicians see elections as a rude interruption in the normal course of politics, which carries on in the same manner, regardless of what India thinks and how India votes.

As the Obama presidency began, three elements of Washington’s rite of passage stood out. First, the civility between winner and loser was remarkable. On January 19, the evening before he entered the Oval Office, Mr Obama spoke at a banquet honouring Mr John McCain. He embraced the man he had defeated and described him as “an American hero”.

Later, and earlier, he praised President George W Bush for impeccable cooperation in the transition period, for ushering the new First Family into the White House. All along, though, Mr Obama determinedly but politely expressed his policy disagreements with his predecessor.

What would it cost Delhi to do business in this manner? Imagine the Congress-UPA loses the election in May 2009. Could the incoming Prime Minister host a dinner for Mr Manmohan Singh and thank him for his service to India? How difficult would it be for new Ministers to call on their immediate predecessors — for the new Railway Minister to visit Mr Lalu Prasad Yadav, for the new Foreign Minister to travel to Mr Pranab Mukherjee’s residence — for words of advice, for conversation, for great atmospherics?

It would be a small gesture but it would make India feel awfully proud of itself. National unity, remember, is not just about getting together for a strong parliamentary resolution each time there’s a terrorist attack and then going back to strife as usual. It is also about habitually reinforcing a collective commitment to India and its institutions.

The second feature was the quiet manner in which President and Mrs Bush boarded a plane as private citizens and left for Texas on January 20 itself. There was no question of hanging around in Washington, demanding a Government bungalow, hankering for some bauble or the other, consulting astrologers to find out if constitutional coups were possible.

This leads to the third point — the fact that the 50 United States eventually give Washington its legitimacy. In Delhi, the perennial politicos treat the Republic of India as an appendage. Mr Obama is from Illinois, Mr Bush from Texas; every four years a new incumbent, representing a new State, a new sensibility, a new idea — its efficacy or otherwise a matter for the future — arrives to run Washington. To some degree, he fashions the city in his own image.

In comparison, power shift in Delhi is a revolving door. One lot of tired minds replaces another. The permanent establishment, the familiar faces from the bureaucracy, peddle old ideas in new garbs, garnished with such empty clichés as “change in continuity”. The primal energies and the talents of the rest of India — of the States in this vast and spectacularly diverse society — are never allowed to be put to use.

As the Obama election established, Washington, for all its ivory tower existence, is periodically re-conquered by America. Delhi, however, increasingly becomes an insular entity, sequestered from the rest of the country. At the best of times, that is not a happy thought; in an election year, it is a tragedy.

-- malikashok@gmail.com

Thats why I said that EC and President should allow only coalitions that are formed before the elections to run. I tdoesnt need a constituional amendment.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2009 01:10

sreerag_s wrote
Brihaspati,
You seem to have some respect for the capabilities of the arabs. But, the arab countries are kingdoms ruled by kings. Kings whose morality and foresight make our politicians look good. Morover the US must have by now infiltrated Arab intelligentsia and are probably remote controlling the arabs. Or am I missing something here?

No "other" culture should be underestimated. History always shows that more sophisticated a society grows, the more things it has to be broken -the higher it rises - greater is the distance to fall. A simpler, less sophisticated society can actually manage the ruthlessness to overcome and crush a more sophisticated society if either because of external circumstances like climate change, or internal causes like dissension/treachery/disunity the sophisticated cannot hold its act together (Cretans/Trojans vs Greeks, Nubian Pharaonic Egypt vs Babylonians, Etruscans/Italians vs Romans, Athens vs Spartans, Romans vs Germanic "barbarians", and of course India... ). It is that giving up even the thought of posssibility of "being ruthless" to preserve "what you cherish" that probably is the key factor you are pointing to - the difference between Arabic/central Asian warlords and Indians (to be fair some tried)

Regarding infiltration, I would guess it is the other way around. Liberals can be fanatical in imposing liberal values - typically so that fanatical views of the harmful kind get aired while pointing this out gets suppressed.

Abhi_G wrote
Swamiji blended spiritual and strategic thoughts. One example is the case of how IISc Bangalore was envisaged between him and Tata during their voyage and followed up by Tata and the generous Maharaja of Mysore.

Thank you Abhi_G. I have to be extra careful nowadays - I could be slammed for a "pro-religion" bias!

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 24 Jan 2009 01:19

This is a good start. The only way is to bring it through a backdoor, i.e. provide free/subsdized medical care for everyone for life who participates in regular health & fitness programs and Military training.
NCC is a good vehicle since it has some prime real estate in a lot of major cities which can be used for training grounds. Only thing is to enhance 40 year old NCC training to modern standards, including modern arms, espionage, cypher training(for disabled) etc.
If free/subsidized medical for life is provided, it would be good incentive for more people to join.
Maybe 1-5 extra marks in entrance to professional colleges would help also.

It will result in a cadre of Indians trained in semi-military manner and as you said, serve as a societal melting pot.

brihaspati wrote:
Actually, for the future - good health, fitness and muscular strength should be part of a national programme. Some countries do have various degrees of compulsory military service for males, and some countries like Israel includes women too. For India, women could be deputed for internal security entirely in paramilitary forces, while men go for external operations (please do not accuse me of gender discrimination I would actually vote for female dominance in the police, would make it much thinner along the waistlines and more humane). Vivekananda (once again considering him not as a religious leader only ) was most keen on exercise and bodybuilding - its another story that they turned out to be recruiment grounds for anti-British movements.

A short term compuslory military service could be a great service to the nation, serving as a melting pot of various fractured socital parts coming together with a common purpose and identity.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2009 01:20

ramanaji,

It should be sold as a national health/wellness initiative. India should not lose its demographic advantage.

Thank you for the suggestion. Had this in mind, but did not want to make it explicit. In the two months here, realized more which way my thoughts had been shaping up over the last couple of years. But seen a lot of opposition too. Did not want people to think militarization+right wing tendencies+talks of potential authroitarianism+insists on "majority" "cultural" basis for unification=dangerous agenda+this hawk must be shot down.

Brihaspatiji, I am going to request you confine yourself to a few threads for one cant chase you all over to glean wisdom!

Thought of getting out of parochialism in favouring "topics of obsession". Will heed your advice.

BTW, how is the drought cycle study coming up? And do visit the history thread and comment on dhu's post.

Neogotiating and waiting for copyrights for the "cave data". Basic work done more or less. Some gaps in textual records. Will update in a few weeks. Will look at the post mentioned. Thanks

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2009 01:32

Gudduji

Probably OT here, but still fission reactors could be quite dangerous and probably a bit too heavy for cars we have in mind - at least for the immediate future. Moreover, I would be quite unsure about the weight/power ratio for aircrafts unless some kind of anti_grav device is developed. Not impossible theoretically though - once checked the calculations, will need an awful amount of energy though, not capable even in the big reactors.

I agree, that if India can become self sufficient in energy, it will have great freedom from blackmail. But this is not being pursued with the obsession it needs.

India's future is bright, if we can continue to have world class educational institutions, if we continue to work with the leaders in the field (the west). To achieve this we need educated leaders, our current generation of leaders need to be retired!. Such a change has just happened in the US.

It is probably just not going to be education of the kind we have now. We need something extra - something that also gives the mental courage to challenge accepted notions. Upanishadic "charaibeti" - never becoming stationary. Again an again we must challenge accepted "wisdom" to put it to test by continuously upgraded "knowledge", and a concept of "daring to do it". At the moment becuase we do not have this, we continue to accept things handed down to us that should have been thrown off long ago.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2009 03:41

Karna_A wrote It will result in a cadre of Indians trained in semi-military manner and as you said, serve as a societal melting pot.

This suggestion of incentives is good. Actually it doesn't always have to be purely military. One of my Germans students told me, that during his compulsory service he was mostly changing tyres in snow and ice. But military cadets could actually use this period to gain exposure to alternative careers, and get engaged in local development where they are camped. I mean that this could be part of the programme apart from regular training. The healthcare and other incentives are a good suggestion, but possibly should be part of a much more comprehensive national compulsory healthcare programme (as part of other compulsory social welfare measures we are yet to have!

). Actual in training or compulsory duty portion, it would perhaps be desirable to insist on equal participation by women. This would allow them to work outside the control and influence of their immediate social circles, which in may regions and social levels are still probably quite restrictive. We have to give all our youth, including women, a taste of potentialities, and a dream.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2009 04:05

But care should be taken to ensure it doesnt morph inot a Hitler jugend type of outfit. Its a fine line between Boy Scouts and the former. Maybe like a Peace Corps to remove doubts.

meanwhile Editorial page, Pioneer 24 jan., 2009

EDITS | Saturday, January 24, 2009 | Email | Print |

Doesn’t help to morph identity

Sacred space : Subarna De

What’s in a name?” Shakespeare said. Well, if the bard had been alive today, he probably would have been amused at the way people modify their names to make them sound more modern and stylish; twisting them around so brutally that nothing remains of the original. So Shireen becomes ‘Shii’, Bala Krishna becomes ‘Balky’ or ‘Balchris’, Chinnaswamy morphs into ‘Chinnas’, Vikram wants to be known as ‘Vicky’ or the more energy conserving ‘Icky’ and Krishan becomes the anglicised ‘Kris’. With these changes out goes the original identity associated with a person’s name and with it the sentiments of the parents and family members, and in comes a new identity — often a confused one — that forcefully tries to stand apart from the original.

In India, a lot of significance is attached to a person’s name. This is because names here not only convey things like which part of the country one is from, but also have unique meanings. This is the reason why parents put a lot of thought and effort into naming their children. They hope that their sons and daughters will live up to the names they bequeath them.

In this era of the Internet young couples spend hours searching on-line for that perfect name for their child not because they want the name to be special in meaning but because they want it to stand out. Hence names like Rahul, Sanjeev, Rajesh, Sapna and Pooja are giving way to Aryaan, Garvit, Aadya and Saanya. Many of these new names don’t mean anything. But they are chosen because they ‘sound’ modern and ‘uncommon’.

The recent boom in ‘call centre culture’ is also partly responsible for this new trend. For, it is in these BPO offices that Shyama becomes ‘Sammy’ and Madhav becomes ‘Mike’ to suit Western clients.

Even the world of media and advertising thrives on mangling names. Bollywood stars such as Sanjay Dutt, Salman Khan and Akshay Kumar have to live with popular identities as ‘Sanju baba’, ‘Sallu’ and ‘Akki’ respectively.

However, people first get to know a person by his or her name. After hearing the name they try to visualise the person with their imagination. Thus, an immediate subliminal identity is established of that person, which in many subtle ways shapes future social interactions.

Therefore, it is important for us to have meaningful names. Twisting original names to make them sound more ‘cool’ is a sign of weakness as it shows how desperate one is for attention.

Didnt the anicents say "namo namah!" But by same token no need to burden the kids with a long name.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2009 04:10

Ramana wrote
Thats why I said that EC and President should allow only coalitions that are formed before the elections to run. I tdoesnt need a constituional amendment.

This is true. My only concern in the comparison with the USA in the article is that, there is a fundamental difference from the Indian case. In the USA, the presidential candidates have to go through all the states, and practically win support personally from all parts of the country. In India the "chief" can get away with minority support concentrated in one part of the country. Thus in the USA, a single focus of political authority can arise time after time who has been accepted by all regions in a sense and who also therefore realizes that he/she has obligations to the whole country and all its people.

Keshav · Post by **Keshav** » 24 Jan 2009 04:11

ramana wrote:Didnt the anicents say "namo namah!" But by same token no need to burden the kids with a long name.

Some of the long names are actually pretty cool.

I knew a guy once named Madhusudhan Dutt. Madhusudhana is another name for Krishna, killer of the demon Madhu.

What about "Mahabaho" - "strong armed one" an epithet Krishna uses for Arjuna?

An instead of just Vikram or Aditya, how about Vikramaditya?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2009 04:15

If coalitions are formed before the electiosn then its leaders have to traverse all parts of the country. People forget but UF, NDA and UPA re not the first coalitions. The first was Janata party which really was a coalition and not a political party. Wehn it boke up it broke into its constittuent parts. the Janata AaPArty leaders traversed teh length and breadth of the country and I recall Vijayalakshmi Pandit speaking to record crowds on Mairna beach in then Madras. And TN was under President's rule during the Emergency!

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 24 Jan 2009 04:20

That is true. It does not all have to be military. Rigorous Sports competitions inculcate as much.
There is famous Wellington's remark about the battle of Waterloo having been won on the playing fields of Eton. But some amount of Martial Arts and weapon training is also necessary.

brihaspati wrote: Actually it doesn't always have to be purely military. Actual in training or compulsory duty portion, it would perhaps be desirable to insist on equal participation by women. We have to give all our youth, including women, a taste of potentialities, and a dream.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2009 04:34

But care should be taken to ensure it doesnt morph inot a Hitler jugend type of outfit. Its a fine line between Boy Scouts and the former. Maybe like a Peace Corps to remove doubts.

Well I had suggested doing it under the auspices of the army. Don't we rely on the army to be nationalist and sane?

But seriously it is more about bringing youth together in afremwork where they develop common identities with respect to their nation, learn to work together to achieve common objectives, take up necessary military work for the nation when called for, and be removed briefly from their social settings where some of the prejudices that hold us back in many directions can no longer play out.

I recognize the danger you mention. That is why the ideological basis for this should be cleared up before undertaking it. But taking in slightly more mature people (say youth above 16) and putting them under army leadership, may not be that dangerous even under the present setup.

As for the names : they have to spend ages to exhaust the simple "compound" names from pre-Islamic Indic languages, and all of them can be taken apart in specific ways to get down to clear and consistent meanings. My parents chose a name for me apparently within a single day - both were good in Sanskrit, and my mother's concern was that the name should be "incorruptible" - impossible to be shortened into derisive nicknames. It proved accurate - four full letter equivalent withstood all such attempts. Our own richness of language is yet to be explored.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jan 2009 04:40

name discussion give me an idea though - why not start a list of possible names sourced from Tamil, Kannada, Malaylam, Telegu, Sanskrit, and ethnic/tribal languages - giving full meaning and context - on a single thread?

Please don't bring up jokes about baby-name sites.