J & K news and discussion

[HariC]

Quite a turnaround from his vow of celibacy

One in the hand is worth 72 in the bush

<BAD TASTE>
or one bush in hand is worth 72 in...
</BAD TASTE>

[jamwal]

Came back from visit to Jammu more precisely Katra for SMVD darshan .It was almost after a gap 18 yrs since i went to Katra . A few observations & perceptions from interaction with some locals there :
.

Regarding "tensions"..what were you expecting?
Akhnoor is not very different from Nagrota, except that most of it is border area.
I don't know what made you equate CRPF with J&K police. Both are very different in terms of their roles and interaction with people.
Jammu is a safe city..some people say safer than even Delhi, in terms of crime rates. Considering recent terror attacks in Delhi and else where, Jammu people should consider rest of India unsafe and swarming with terrorists.

You took a very long route Katra-Akhnoor-Jammu. Try visiting Rajouri next time. You'll see RR in kick ass gear there. Many trucks have some kind of gun with a thick barrel. Wonder what that is!

[anupmisra]

JKLF's Yaseen Malik's soon-to-be wife



Quite a turnaround from his vow of celibacy

The question is: What the heck is she thinking or after? Not the shuttlecock burqa?

[anupmisra]

Now, as you gentlefolks know, Feb 4 was "Kashmir Solidarity Day" in the Land of the Pure(ly) Benign. That day was celebrated with gusto as this newspiece suggests:

Kashmiris form `Human Chain' at Kohala

MUZAFFARABAD: A large number of people from various walks of life including children, students and women braved chilly weather and heavy rain on Thursday to form `Human Chain' as a symbol to express solidarity with the people of Occupied Kashmir on Kashmir Solidarity Day.

The participants expressed whole-hearted support to the just cause of freedom as well as right of self-determination to their brethren besieged by India for over half a century.

United Nations, the world body having the mandate to settle disputes among the nations, was also urged not to act as silent spectator over the miseries of Kashmiris and honour its promises it had made to hold plebiscite in Kashmir. Hey, what about Jammu, Ladakh, Northern Areas, Gilgit, Baltistan....?

The participants strongly condemned illegal Indian aggression on Kashmir and called upon the international community to tame India for living humbly with its neighbours as well as comity of nations.

They also condemned untold (Whoa! there are more?) atrocities committed against innocent civilians in Indian occupied Kashmir, deployment of over 800,000 troops, extra-judicial killings, torture and other blatant violations of human rights that were sponsored by India.

Wasn't the oft-quoted number 700,000? Where did the additional 100,000 come from? Madrassa math at work?

In case you wondered what the human chain looked like, it consisted mostly of 72 virgins (stock photo, BTW. Where's the rain and bitterly frigid weather):

[Gerard]

Wasn't the oft-quoted number 700,000? Where did the additional 100,000 come from? Madrassa math at work?

Every few years the Pakis increase the number by a 100,000. They originally claimed 300,000 IIRC and started increasing the numbers as the blowback to Pakistan intensified. It is very hard for a Paki to watch what they have done to their country without reassuring themselves that the enormous numbers of Indian Army soldiers are being tied down in J+K. It won't be long till they claim 100,000 dead in Kashmir and 1,000,000 troops stationed there.

[amit]

Talking about Kashmir Day solidarity lookie here what the liberated ummah did to the apples sent with much fanfare by the "oppressed" briathers on our side of the LoC:

No money from PoK, so no apples: Kashmiris

"We were eagerly waiting for the beginning of cross LoC trade, even dispatched thousands of apple boxes to PoK in the start. But, so far growers have not received a single penny in lieu of the apples," President Fruit Mandi Sopore, Bashir Beig said.

"After three months, we don't know what happened to apples in PoK," he said.

Now, now Beig Mia what's a few thousands apple boxes between long lost ummah briathers? Surely those apples disappeared for a good cause, like feeding the terrorists in the PoK training camps? Why perhaps some of them also landed with the good Taliban as homage from distant lands which pine for "liberation"?

Why are you acting like a cowardly kufir Bania Beig Mia?

Now the hated Indian Govt needs to step in and help?

"The trade is useless unless Government starts a permanent communication link between two parts of Kashmir," he said.

The growers who dispatched their apples on the first day of opening of the trade too are losing hope about future of the trade. "Unless growers are allowed to visit to Pok, this cross LoC business is meaningless," said Javid Ahmad, a trader who dispatched around 100 apple boxes on October 20, 2008.

"I don't know what happened to my apples in PoK. Government has to do more to sustain this trade, otherwise in coming months no trade will take place via Kaman bridge. “

And finally the real reason for the lack of interest in sending apples to PoK:

There is other reason that compelled growers not to dispatch their apples to PoK as the growers were offered lucrative rates by the Delhi based traders. "Soon after the cross LoC trade started, the rates of apples have gone up," said Beig, adding that this year all the losses got compensated by good rates.

So you do have bania blood flowing in your veins Beig mia?

[ramana]

amit welcome back. Devastating wit.

[Gerard]

Quranic verses on skiing gear

The controversy started on Saturday when some employees of Gulmarg Cable Car Corporation noticed Quranic verses inscribed on the skiing gear of N Patrick. The people caught hold of the foreigner and handed him over to police. They demanded stern action against the skier. Shouting anti-America, anti-Israel and anti-Sweden slogans, the protesters in Srinagar termed it as a deliberate attempt on part of the European tourist.

[Keshav]

This thread was interesting for a while when people were debating about the results of the Kashmir election that happened recently. After that, it died down.

Without proper statistics about the problems in Kashmir (from terrorism and Muslim fundamentalism), let me propose an interesting idea for how to integrate Kashmir back into the core (now that we at BRF have fully drunk the C-P kool aid).

Oppression will never lead to integration. In fact, if I might use myself as an example as a second generation Indian American, acceptance leads to assimilation. How Indian am I, really? Intellectually, I might understand Indian issues but as my past trips to India have shown, I don't fit in all the way. If I had been prosected as a community, we probably would've hunkered down in the Canton area where there are loads of Indians.

Set a time table for Army withdrawal from the Kashmir area

After every successful election, there should be a withdrawal from those areas that have accepted Indian values the most.

I don't know how the bureaucracy works in Kashmir and how much of it is run by the Army, but perhaps it would be better to place those Kashmiris who are against separatism (or at least not against India) in office to encourage integration into the core.

Indian businesses investing in Kashmir, whether it be clothes, jewelry, computers, movies, etc. should be encouraged. Does Article 370 not allow this?

[Dilbu]

Top Hizbul commander held in Jammu and Kashmir

In a major success, the Jammu and Kashmir [Images] police has arrested the chief operational commander of Hizbul Mujaheedin outfit, Muzaffar Dar alias 'Gaznavi'.

A senior police officer said Dar was arrested by the police from the Saderbal near Kashmir University.

38-year-old Dar, a Pakistan-trained self-styled chief operations commander of Hizbul, has been closely associated with top leaders of the outfit including its chief Syed Sallahuddin.

A resident of Chichloora-Magam in Baramulla district, Dar was arrested at 1530 hours.

[sum]

This "held" business is always scary. They get fattened on our money and get released few years later.
A dead pig is better than a arrested pig.

[ashish raval]

This "held" business is always scary. They get fattened on our money and get released few years later.
A dead pig is better than a arrested pig.

Why dont they hold him for a time being get all the information and then make the news that he was killed in an encounter !! why do IA rush to make the news public even if he is held. The news of these pigs being held should never be made public only their death should be made public after all the relevant information gets extracted.

[Vikas]

Sometimes the "held business" is more of planned surrender. This keeps the surrendered terrorist safe from its handlers wrath as well.
If you notice , most of the held terrorists are locals whom govt might wish to use later or bring them into mainstream.

[Vikas]

This thread was interesting for a while when people were debating about the results of the Kashmir election that happened recently. After that, it died down.

Without proper statistics about the problems in Kashmir (from terrorism and Muslim fundamentalism), let me propose an interesting idea for how to integrate Kashmir back into the core (now that we at BRF have fully drunk the C-P kool aid).

Oppression will never lead to integration. In fact, if I might use myself as an example as a second generation Indian American, acceptance leads to assimilation. How Indian am I, really? Intellectually, I might understand Indian issues but as my past trips to India have shown, I don't fit in all the way. If I had been prosected as a community, we probably would've hunkered down in the Canton area where there are loads of Indians.

Set a time table for Army withdrawal from the Kashmir area

After every successful election, there should be a withdrawal from those areas that have accepted Indian values the most.

I don't know how the bureaucracy works in Kashmir and how much of it is run by the Army, but perhaps it would be better to place those Kashmiris who are against separatism (or at least not against India) in office to encourage integration into the core.

Indian businesses investing in Kashmir, whether it be clothes, jewelry, computers, movies, etc. should be encouraged. Does Article 370 not allow this?

Keshav - What exactly you mean by Army withdrawal from the Kashmir area ? J&K is a border state and army was always there since 1947 and will always be there like any other border state. As far policing which I guess what you mean by withdrawal, most of the job now is no longer handled by army anymore.
Bureaucracy in J&K is run by bureaucrats and not army. Army is hardly involved in running of the govt.
As far business, they would invest where there is safety and profit. Business houses can't be forced to work in an environment where a terrorist can walk in and blow up the whole place.
Businesses could have invested in Jammu region but I hear that J&K govt is not supportive of it all.
Do you really think if Army is totally removed from J&K, militancy will go away. Wish it was that simple !!
Last point, Why are we trying to pamper Kashmiri Muslims after all they have done. Why not to place people from Jammu and Ladhakh in position of power. At least you wont have to figure if the person is Pro-Paki or NOT Anti-India.

[Keshav]

Vikas -
Thanks for replying to me civilly. Unfortunately, I think we see less and less tolerance for new ideas on Bharat Rakshak. Its turned in a clique, like the Communists or Elites.

As far policing which I guess what you mean by withdrawal, most of the job now is no longer handled by army anymore. Bureaucracy in J&K is run by bureaucrats and not army. Army is hardly involved in running of the govt.

As much as it may seem wrong, having the people run the governments leads to less disturbances.

As far business, they would invest where there is safety and profit. Business houses can't be forced to work in an environment where a terrorist can walk in and blow up the whole place.
Businesses could have invested in Jammu region but I hear that J&K govt is not supportive of it all.

Business is probably the number one connection that people can have with one another. People everywhere want to make money, and if their economic interests are tied, there is bound to be more interest into what happens in New Delhi as well as Srinagar.

Do you really think if Army is totally removed from J&K, militancy will go away. Wish it was that simple !!

I don't think militancy will go away, but I think there are probably ways to make people feel better about the Army presence. General law and order stuff concerning how police treat prisoners, torture, etc. can go a long way in improving relations.

Last point, Why are we trying to pamper Kashmiri Muslims after all they have done. Why not to place people from Jammu and Ladhakh in position of power. At least you wont have to figure if the person is Pro-Paki or NOT Anti-India.[/quote]

Not specifically pampering. Just treating them like human beings. I never said we should simply stack the place with Kashmiri Muslims. Don't Kashmiri Pundits deserve a home too? I think helping Ladakh is a great idea - the people are certainly patriotic beyond their means.

If you've been following the conversation in other threads about the "core-periphery" idea, increasing efficiency in the Kashmir region will bring into the core all the people in that region.

[Gerard]

Kashmiri women survive forced marriages to militants, tell tale

[Rahul M]

Not specifically pampering. Just treating them like human beings.

and why exactly do you think that this is something that is not done now ?

[Chellaram]

Indian businesses investing in Kashmir, whether it be clothes, jewelry, computers, movies, etc. should be encouraged. Does Article 370 not allow this?

there was an article in the Hindu last week by Praveen Swami that briefly described one such effort of a businessman trying to invest in Kashmir:

http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/02/stories ... 690800.htm

Now, flamboyant industrialist Vijay Mallya’s announcement of plans to resume the cultivation of hops — used to manufacture beer — has opened up fresh opportunities for the religious right-wing.

“My father Vittal Mallya, who was Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah’s friend, started cultivating hops in Kashmir,” Mr. Mallya told journalists on January 12. “Sheikh Abdullah,” he recalled, “inaugurated the venture in 1973. It was a successful business, but we had to wind it up after the violence in Kashmir began.” Mr. Mallya also said he hoped to restart a Zainakote-based pharmaceuticals plant his group had shut down in 1989.

Egged on by inaccurate — or malicious — media accounts which claimed that Mr. Mallya planned to open a brewery, Opposition politicians moved in for the kill. People’s Democratic Party vice-president Iftikhar Ansari claimed that the National Conference patron and former Chief Minister, Farooq Abdullah, wished to usher in “wine production in Jammu and Kashmir.” “The people won’t tolerate this,” he went on, “for, the production of liquor in Kashmir is both anti-social and anti-religious.”

Kashmir’s Grand Mufti, Bashir-ud-Din, for his part, issued an edict declaring the cultivation of hops “against our religion and culture.” “We have to nip the evil in the bud,” the cleric declared. He demanded that the J&K government reject the project, warning of a “rebellion by the young people here.” Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadis president Shaukat Ahmad Shah, similarly, said the people of the State would fight the project “tooth and nail,” asserting that they did not want “development at the cost of our faith.”

Islamist politicians soon joined in. Tehreek-e-Hurriyat chief Syed Ali Shah Geelani’s principal lieutenant, Mohammad Ashraf Sehrai, cast Mr. Mallya’s proposals as an Indian conspiracy. “It is to defunct [sic.] and destabilise the intellectual acumen of our young generation,” he said, “and make them forget their cause of achieving the right to self-determination.” Dukhtaran-e-Millat chairperson Asiya Andrabi, similarly, described Mr. Mallya’s plans as an “attempt to make Kashmir a hub of evil.”

Its not difficult to imagine that the response from these islamist clowns towards investment in many of the things that you mentioned - clothes, movies, etc..- will be exactly the same.

Another example from the same article:

Elsewhere in the State, too, signs of trouble are evident. Last month, clerics passed a fatwa declaring the operation of a pig farm by Sikh residents of Batuhuni-Muradpur village in the communally-fragile district of Rajouri a crime against Islam. Mufti Nazir Ahmed Qasmi, who heads the Bandipora-based Dar-ul-Uloom Rahimia, pronounced the operation of the pig farm as “an intolerable act for Muslims.” “If the government fails to close it,” he said, “the ulema [religious scholars] will decide our further course of action.”

Srinagar-based newspaper Rising Kashmir reported local residents’ claims that the “pigs were pushed into the houses of Muslims to hurt their sentiments.” One villager, Safia Begum, said the “pigs are wandering near water tanks and our homes. They are making us impure.” “We are ready to sacrifice our lives,” schoolteacher Abdul Gani added, “but will not live among pigs.”

[Vikas]

Forgetr clothes, jewelry, computers, movies, etc.
GOI should let people in Kashmir grow more apples and allow them to send it across border to POK.

[sunilUpa]

^^^ After reading some of the comments, I strongly urge Army chief to make JNU the top priority target for Surgical strike!

[Yayavar]

As much as it may seem wrong, having the people run the governments leads to less disturbances.

Do you not consider elections as accomplishing "people run the governments" ?

[Rony]

JKLF's Yaseen Malik's soon-to-be wife



Quite a turnaround from his vow of celibacy

Yasin Malik to marry a racy artist from Pakistan

He told friends he was leaving for Pakistan "on a 10-day personal visit to Pakistan. “I will solemnise Nikaah [marriage] in an austere way according to Islamic tenets," he pledged.

There is nothing austere about his fiancée however, and questions have been asked over how he reconciles is commitment to Islamic tenets with her risqué art.

She specialises in paintings which capture "raw beauty of the feminine mystique," she says, but they would be regarded by many of her fiance's militant comrades as *****.

In a 'Rose That Left A Thorn Behind,' a passionate Pakistani woman with wild hair is shown naked from the waist up, glancing over shoulder, revealing her breast. In The Forgotten Love, a softer-looking woman stares out of the frame, brushing her cheek with hand, and covering her nipples with her arms. . “

On her website, Mushaal, 28, says she began painting as a child, and her current work reveals a fascination with the striking faces and voluptuous curves of green-eyed Pakistani women . She shows her works at carefully selected exhibitions in the country and donates proceeds of sales to charities supporting women's causes.

She comes from a distinguished establishment family in Pakistan, where her father was a university professor and her mother a women's leader of the powerful Pakistan Muslim League.
JKLF leader Yasin Malik, 42, is said to have met and fallen in love with Mushaal at a conference in Pakistan. He missed his engagement ceremony last October when he was jailed for agitating for an election boycott.

Friends said although he was personally a Muslim, he was not a fundamentalist and his choice of bride was his own personal affair.

"The Kashmiri freedom struggle is a political and not religious struggle. Marriage is always a personal decision and one should not mix it up with politics. As far as I know Mushaal is a well-known painter and if she finds her paintings as a way of expression, there is nothing wrong," said Yasin's friend Shahidul Islam, a leader of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference against Indian rule in Kashmir.

[svinayak]

Reuters is a UK propaganda media company
It is now a Canadian company under Thompson Reuter brand

This company used to be in British India feeding information to UK about Indian market, cotton production etc. Now they have setup base inside India

http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... dChannel=0

Q+A - Kashmir: An obstacle to South Asia stability
Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:08pm IST

By Matthias Williams

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - U.S. envoy Richard Holbrooke will tread a thin line when he visits New Delhi, aiming to promote stability in Afghanistan and Pakistan without mentioning the Kashmir dispute that many see as a source of the region's conflicts.

HOW DID THE KASHMIR CONFLICT START?

After India and Pakistan won independence from Britain, the once independent state of Kashmir was expected to join Pakistan, as other Muslim-majority regions did.

The Hindu ruler of Kashmir wanted to stay independent but faced an invasion by Muslim tribesmen from Pakistan. In October 1947, he agreed to join India in return for military aid, and the region became a battleground.

WHY IS KASHMIR IMPORTANT

It is seen as one of the world's potential nuclear flashpoints.

[sunnyP]

sorry to be posting from a puki site but...

IHK CM denied visa for Umra because of wife’s religion

NEW DELHI: The Saudi Arabia embassy here has turned down an application by Indian-held Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah to travel for Umra, citing his marriage to a Sikh woman as the reason behind the decision. The column in which Abdullah had written down his wife’s name, Payal, was highlighted in the rejection letter sent out by the embassy. Abdullah was to leave later this month to Saudi Arabia with his father – Dr Farooq Abdullah, a former chief minister. iftikhar gilani

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg7_9

[sanjaykumar]

The Drop of Beauty...

From Mashall Mullick's website. Classic Panjabi Brhmin type with bindi, choli and hairstyle. Why depict a Hindu woman??

Anyways...I'm Sheikh Mahdi'q.

[Keshav]

As much as it may seem wrong, having the people run the governments leads to less disturbances.

Do you not consider elections as accomplishing "people run the governments" ?

I think it's a good thing. But if we sell it to the Kashmiri people as incentive, they'll have more reason to open up. Then we can push business, political parties, and drawn them closer to the core.

[Rahul M]

keshav, I had a question for you on one of your statements.

viz.

Not specifically pampering. Just treating them like human beings.

and why exactly do you think that this is something that is not done now ?

[Keshav]

and why exactly do you think that this is something that is not done now ?

Indians above all should understand asymmetrical thinking.

To believe that the security forces are all bad is wrong. "Always" and "Never" are generally bad words to use. But to assume that the forces are all handy dandy and don't take random people in, search them, beat them (torture) is extremely naive considering what country we're talking about.

You don't think they treated like slumdogs every now and then? That just isn't acceptable in what can be an exceptional country like India.

[svinayak]

See this video of B Raman discussing the human rights in Kashmir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPaO1FyjkeU

There is enough information.

[pgbhat]

Indian Kashmir linked to Dubai by weekly flight

State-run Air India will operate weekly flights between the insurgency-hit city and Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. Previously the only international flights out of Srinagar were charter planes to take Kashmiri Muslims to Saudi Arabia during the Haj season.

Aiyaz Akbar, a spokesman for an umbrella group of separatist political and religious leaders, said the introduction of international flights from Srinagar would not change the anti-India sentiment in the region.

[RajeshA]

and why exactly do you think that this is something that is not done now ?

Indians above all should understand asymmetrical thinking.

To believe that the security forces are all bad is wrong. "Always" and "Never" are generally bad words to use. But to assume that the forces are all handy dandy and don't take random people in, search them, beat them (torture) is extremely naive considering what country we're talking about.

You don't think they treated like slumdogs every now and then? That just isn't acceptable in what can be an exceptional country like India.

Indians are polyglots. It is necessary to speak in the language that the Laton ke Bhoot also understand.

What is wrong is indiscriminate human rights violations. But if there are those lurking somewhere, call them militants, 'freedom fighters', terrorists, whatever, who have either violated the human rights of those, who enjoy the due protection of the Indian State as its citizens, or who have made the State's task difficult in upholding the human rights of its citizenry, then the State has the right to reevaluate the level of human rights that individual or group may be privileged to.

Keshav, India, I believe, understands asymmetric warfare. It is when terrorists come in, create havoc in the population, while staying in the shadows, and the state cannot do much because the law ties its hands behind the back. The visibility of the terrorist and the State is asymmetric.

[Keshav]

What is wrong is indiscriminate human rights violations. But if there are those lurking somewhere, call them militants, 'freedom fighters', terrorists, whatever, who have either violated the human rights of those, who enjoy the due protection of the Indian State as its citizens, or who have made the State's task difficult in upholding the human rights of its citizenry, then the State has the right to reevaluate the level of human rights that individual or group may be privileged to.

I think torture is an excuse for bad intelligence. It's already been proven by American interrogators that "coercive methods" are much less successful than "non-coercive methods. Even psychologists like Skinner and Pavlov in their

You will never have perfect knowledge of who, when, and where but you can get pretty close. In my mind, the Indian infrastructure (police, security forces, army, etc.) hasn't even come half way.

At the same time, I think its naive to think that even if they had 95% of the required information for any given attack, that 5% will not require some amount of bloodshed. We don't agree with it, but ultimately we probably won't even hear about it.

[sum]

Here is a KM fantasizing about the Taliban in his letter to the editor of Chindu.

The word ‘Talibanisation’ is frequently used to describe undesirable activities. The Taliban no doubt prevented women from working during their rule in Afghanistan. But they also provided livelihood to the women who were breadwinners or who were in desperate need of employment. They reinforced the Islamic code of conduct in their country. Comparing the Sri Ram Sene or any such group with the Taliban is incorrect. All that the Taliban have done is to enrich the Islamic culture, that too in their own land.

Syed Adfar Rashid Shah,

Srinagar

These guys deserve the Taliban and their punishments.

[jamwal]

Here is a KM fantasizing about the Taliban in his letter to the editor of Chindu.

Comparing the Sri Ram Sene or any such group with the Taliban is incorrect. All that the Taliban have done is to enrich the Islamic culture, that too in their own land.

Syed Adfar Rashid Shah,

Srinagar

Srinagar-based newspaper Rising Kashmir reported local residents’ claims that the “pigs were pushed into the houses of Muslims to hurt their sentiments.” One villager, Safia Begum, said the “pigs are wandering near water tanks and our homes. They are making us impure.” “We are ready to sacrifice our lives,” schoolteacher Abdul Gani added, “but will not live among pigs.”

Is Keshav reading this? These KMs are being pampered to excess already. His half baked ideas about human rights and associated will only encourage such morons elsewhere. Can you explain if J & K residents can buy property, do business all over India, then why rest of Indians not allowed there? Why 4 lakh Kashmiri Hindus are living as refugees in their own country ?

[Rudradev]

Jamwal sahab,

You'll find such people who may have never set foot in Jammu and Kashmir, but are hypersensitive to the vaguest possibility that Indian security forces use "torture".

That's because it's SO embarrassing to have to explain In-dee-yuh to their little white friends who ask about "Slumdog Millionaire" (OMG, is it really true they do that?)

So you'll find them posting trite, opinionated banalities (followed by demands that other forumites should read and research materials which they can't be bothered to find for themselves). It's all part of their contribution towards elevating the intellectual profile of BRF

[Yayavar]

Do you not consider elections as accomplishing "people run the governments" ?

I think it's a good thing. But if we sell it to the Kashmiri people as incentive, they'll have more reason to open up. Then we can push business, political parties, and drawn them closer to the core.

I read what you wrote but do not understand.

1. Elections are a good thing. And, Kashmiris, along with Jammuites and Ladakhis have participated in them. There is a new CM of the blue-blood of Kashmir -- Mr. Omar Abdullah. So far so good.

2. What does 'sell it to Kashmiri people as incentive' mean? The voting percentage was more than the US persidential elections from what I know -- is that not an indication of the elections being accepted as an 'incentive'?

3. "push business, political parties, and drawn them closer to the core" -- again elections were fought by political parties - National conference, Congress, PDP, BJP. Members of these parties sit in Lok sabha, Rajya Sabha, have been in the cabinet and of course NC and PDP hold most of the seats in the J&K asembly. What is this 'core' ?

[RajeshA]

What is wrong is indiscriminate human rights violations. But if there are those lurking somewhere, call them militants, 'freedom fighters', terrorists, whatever, who have either violated the human rights of those, who enjoy the due protection of the Indian State as its citizens, or who have made the State's task difficult in upholding the human rights of its citizenry, then the State has the right to reevaluate the level of human rights that individual or group may be privileged to.

I think torture is an excuse for bad intelligence. It's already been proven by American interrogators that "coercive methods" are much less successful than "non-coercive methods. Even psychologists like Skinner and Pavlov in their

You will never have perfect knowledge of who, when, and where but you can get pretty close. In my mind, the Indian infrastructure (police, security forces, army, etc.) hasn't even come half way.

At the same time, I think its naive to think that even if they had 95% of the required information for any given attack, that 5% will not require some amount of bloodshed. We don't agree with it, but ultimately we probably won't even hear about it.

Keshav,
It is not about torture. It is about degrading the human rights of a human when he becomes an inhuman.

You are attached to the Human Rights Declaration, etc. and probably like to adorn yourself with the liberal halo of all those who do not like to do the dirty work but would love to stand on some pulpit and give a sermon at the drop of a hat.

Have you ever thought, that your idealism, fair play, due process, by the book, psychology, etc. doesn't impress the militant at all, but only binds your hands in dealing with him.

The problem is that just as some believers think that what was valid in the 7th century is also valid today and can be applied without cognizance of social evolution since then, similarly the liberals feel that due legal process has to be guaranteed to people, who are hellbent on subverting the stable system, which makes the legal process possible in the first place.

Disclaimer: This is no personal attack, just a general comment.

[Bharati]

Valley youth for Army

[Gerard]

Army eliminated 1,256 militants in J&K and NE in 2008

While the Army "killed'' 330 terrorists and apprehended 172 others in J&K in 2008, it "neutralised'' 717 United Liberation Front of Asom militants in Assam.

[Gerard]

Nudes, by Yasin Malik's fiancee