Indian Autos Thread

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 14 Mar 2009 22:21

yes pandyan saar I calculated it too, its called swiss way of finanacing projects. But there will be cancellations too and black market of allotments. Thanks to mamta di people have to pay premium.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 15 Mar 2009 08:51

Check out these links,

http://www.g-wiz.org.uk/
http://www.g-wiz.org.uk/willkommen.html

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 15 Mar 2009 10:33

The 2nd hand car market for Maruti/Hyundai/Mahindra will collapse.

Bajaj will have to close it's auto workshop.. We will finally see the end of that 3 wheeled terror in the passenger segment.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 15 Mar 2009 20:42

I just read a report of the Nano from a Norwegian reporter. The car got 1 out of 6 and the reweiw was very very negative. I think Nano will have a tough time selling in Europe. You can get a second hand 2 year old car for about 4000 dollars. But the car can be a great hit in third world countries. let us see.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 15 Mar 2009 21:42

It has become standard practise for Top Gear to deride all Indian cars....if I remember right even an Australian car was derided but I dont remember the name...First it was Indica and then the humiliation of the Nano, in both cases they were certified as the worst cars of the year...

Jai Ho!

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 15 Mar 2009 21:45

Nayak wrote:The 2nd hand car market for Maruti/Hyundai/Mahindra will collapse.

Bajaj will have to close it's auto workshop.. We will finally see the end of that 3 wheeled terror in the passenger segment.

in Chennai (also in Bangalore and Hyd I heard) the teror is more the auto-drivers, their attitude and driving style. At the same time I have come across some very good auto drivers so cant generalize...

I agree with you guys on Bajaj, competition between companies is acceptable but this something else..what you sow is what you reap...

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 16 Mar 2009 01:46

Yogi_G wrote:It has become standard practise for Top Gear to deride all Indian cars....if I remember right even an Australian car was derided but I dont remember the name...First it was Indica and then the humiliation of the Nano, in both cases they were certified as the worst cars of the year...

Jai Ho!

Hate to admit it, but I kind of support the conclusion. Rover putting their name on a car that even the Indian consumers do not want. I believe most Indicas are sold to Taxi opperators. The drive and handling of the Indica is just not up to date.

KarthikSan · Post by **KarthikSan** » 16 Mar 2009 02:02

Rishirishi wrote:
Yogi_G wrote:It has become standard practise for Top Gear to deride all Indian cars....if I remember right even an Australian car was derided but I dont remember the name...First it was Indica and then the humiliation of the Nano, in both cases they were certified as the worst cars of the year...

Jai Ho!
Hate to admit it, but I kind of support the conclusion. Rover putting their name on a car that even the Indian consumers do not want. I believe most Indicas are sold to Taxi opperators. The drive and handling of the Indica is just not up to date.

Nope. The Indica sold to taxi operators is a variant. The variants sold to the public have better trim and creature comforts. Just like Ford/Chevy/Dodge make their fleet cars! My dad has an Indica and it is a very good car for the price. The Brits cannot admit that Gunga-din is actually making better stuff than their colonial masters. Top Gear derides pretty much anything that is non-Oiropean, Toyota and Honda.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 16 Mar 2009 03:05

I just read a report of the Nano from a Norwegian reporter. The car got 1 out of 6 and the reweiw was very very negative. I think Nano will have a tough time selling in Europe. You can get a second hand 2 year old car for about 4000 dollars. But the car can be a great hit in third world countries. let us see.
I just read a report of the Nano from a Norwegian reporter. The car got 1 out of 6 and the reweiw was very very negative. I think Nano will have a tough time selling in Europe. You can get a second hand 2 year old car for about 4000 dollars. But the car can be a great hit in third world countries. let us see.

The Norwegians, Sweedes and Finns regions are different kettle of fish, the Elk & deer there are at least 1.5 the size of nano, they are used to drive Tanks called Volvo which is designed to take on these beasts, the aux power unit (aka the 5th cylinder in their engine ) itself could be 1.25 time nano main power pack.

Let the Scand(al)inavian reports say what they want to say. Nano is conceptually at core for India like countries

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 16 Mar 2009 04:33

KarthikSan wrote: Nope. The Indica sold to taxi operators is a variant. The variants sold to the public have better trim and creature comforts. Just like Ford/Chevy/Dodge make their fleet cars! My dad has an Indica and it is a very good car for the price. The Brits cannot admit that Gunga-din is actually making better stuff than their colonial masters. Top Gear derides pretty much anything that is non-Oiropean, Toyota and Honda.

I wouldn't attach too much importance what's said on Top Gear. Clarkson is pretty much a shock jock. They are very likely to deride anything which doesn't handle like the much vaunted Oiropean cars. They trash American cars year after year, it doesn't mean a thing.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 16 Mar 2009 06:41

Sriman wrote:
KarthikSan wrote: Nope. The Indica sold to taxi operators is a variant. The variants sold to the public have better trim and creature comforts. Just like Ford/Chevy/Dodge make their fleet cars! My dad has an Indica and it is a very good car for the price. The Brits cannot admit that Gunga-din is actually making better stuff than their colonial masters. Top Gear derides pretty much anything that is non-Oiropean, Toyota and Honda.
I wouldn't attach too much importance what's said on Top Gear. Clarkson is pretty much a shock jock. They are very likely to deride anything which doesn't handle like the much vaunted Oiropean cars. They trash American cars year after year, it doesn't mean a thing.

Slumdog millionaire is the movie version of Top Gear !!

ankur_np · Post by **ankur_np** » 16 Mar 2009 09:30

I wouldn't attach too much importance what's said on Top Gear. Clarkson is pretty much a shock jock. They are very likely to deride anything which doesn't handle like the much vaunted Oiropean cars. They trash American cars year after year, it doesn't mean a thing.

Here's what Top Gear's James May has to say about the Tata Nano:

I know I'm a bit late with the Tata Nano, but I've spent the obligatory two weeks lying on my bed thinking about it very, very carefully, to be sure I've understood its implications correctly. As a result of that, I've decided it's brilliant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/col ... -bike.html

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 16 Mar 2009 23:29

Welcome to BR Ankur...

Folks, I have a pooch, is there a KBB equivalent in India? I know there is one @ Carwaale http://www.carwale.com/mycarwale/carval ... quest.aspx

I am looking to buy a car when I get back to Desh so beginning my homework now...

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 17 Mar 2009 00:55

Check out some photos from the team-BHP link. The finish on the car seems pretty good and the car really looks great!

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 17 Mar 2009 14:41

KarthikSan wrote:
Rishirishi wrote: Hate to admit it, but I kind of support the conclusion. Rover putting their name on a car that even the Indian consumers do not want. I believe most Indicas are sold to Taxi opperators. The drive and handling of the Indica is just not up to date.

Nope. The Indica sold to taxi operators is a variant. The variants sold to the public have better trim and creature comforts. Just like Ford/Chevy/Dodge make their fleet cars! My dad has an Indica and it is a very good car for the price. The Brits cannot admit that Gunga-din is actually making better stuff than their colonial masters. Top Gear derides pretty much anything that is non-Oiropean, Toyota and Honda.

I think that Top Gear was right on the money on that one. Basically, there were several things wrong with the car:
1. Price: When they first came out, Rover sold them for ~7000 pounds in the UK (but Rover was importing them from Tata for 3000 pounds each!) This meant the Rover chaps were pricing it in a segment where there were other cars with better features. If it was priced at say 3500 or 4000 pounds, it would have been a better deal.

2. Ride: What is good for Indian roads is not necessarily good for foreign roads. I happen to know two jingos in the UK who purchased the CityRover precisely because it was Indian. Both of them regretted the decision soon afterwards. They both said that the suspension was pretty hard.

3. Build Quality: Again, this is probably more to do with a function of the price. As one friend put it, "if they'd charged 3500 pounds for the car, then I wouldn't have minded the build quality, but for the price they were charging, I would expect a better quality product." The paint finish sucked compared to other cars at the same price.

4. Service (not Tata's fault though): Rover's customer service department left a lot to be desired.

Good things about it (according to both friends): it had a pretty strong engine for its price and good amount of legroom for passengers and luggage. One friend absolutely hated the seats though.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 17 Mar 2009 15:14

I guess Rover went by the achaayan logic.

Achaayan bought a used fiat for Rs 30000.
He spent Rs 20000 to refurbish it.
He drove it for 1 year, spent Rs 10000 for maintenance and repairs.
Then had an accident. Spent Rs 30000 for repairs.
Since it is unlucky he wanted to sell the car.

He wanted Rs 90000 for the car.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Mar 2009 16:00

sweet looking puppy. maybe for urban badboyz they will sell a modified
version with fatter tyres, a turbocharged 120hp engine and a 8 speaker sound system....sort of a desi toyota matrix...install couple of fake raked buffalo horns on the roof and some fierce stickers...

meantime joke of the Week:

WB after its disasters with salim group, tata nano and many others is
pinning its hopes on the FAW group of PRC which make large nos of
CVs in small to medium sizes. sites , including Singur have been shown.
no prizes for guessing the commie leadership is in bed with beijing on
this....the article reports FAW also wants to introduce a cheap car.
hope they get FAW*ed!

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 17 Mar 2009 17:04

The chances of any chinese auto vehicle to find mass accepatability in India is extremely low.All of them inroduced so far in India have flopped miserably including the very light CV introduced by Hindustan Motors.
The auto parts story is different though and GOI needs to make sure there are anti dumping measures on imports and in case of manufacturing here adherence to strict quality standards which the chinese are bound to fail.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Mar 2009 20:06

Tatas seek patent security for Nano against copycats

Tata Motors has applied for patent protection for over 37 inventions and innovations linked to its high-profile affordable car, Nano, in an aggressive move to protect the brand against imitation in the ultra-competitive car industry. It is also close to filing intellectual property rights (IPRs) claims for Nano in overseas markets, company officials said.

The company has used a number of new concepts and ideas to develop this vehicle and patents will help in protecting some of its innovative ideas, according to officials close to the development. The move is also expected to help Tata Motors to sell the car in markets such as Africa, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America.

Source: Economic Times

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 18 Mar 2009 00:55

Can anyone let me know how is Skoda Fabia?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Mar 2009 02:01

Nano effect likely to be felt across user segments

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 18 Mar 2009 02:23

She is doing good as per last reports.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 18 Mar 2009 07:05

Bajaj small car takes high mileage route

Bajaj Auto’s ultra low cost (ULC) car, scheduled to hit the roads in 2010-11, is expected to deliver on-road mileage of over 30 km a litre , according to top sources involved with the project.

The Bajaj team handling the ULC project is, apparently, convinced that doubling mileage is more important than halving the price. This has stemmed from Bajaj Auto’s own experience in the past when the once robust market for the Chetak scooter literally shifted overnight to motorcycles, which were dearer but much more fuel-efficient. “The idea is to work on this car with the mindset of a motorcycle,” sources said.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 18 Mar 2009 10:13

RayC wrote:Can anyone let me know how is Skoda Fabia?

New models and engines are due this year. A wait is advisable.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 18 Mar 2009 10:29

Skoda is a big rip-off.

Resale value would indicate how good the car is. I would anyday recommend a SX4 or City over Skoda.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Mar 2009 10:35

City is costly for the size and its new model which came out recently is edgy and ugly compared to last one.
SX4 and Verna would be cheaper options or being a Army man how about mahindra xylo?

lot of 2nd hand expensive expat/company cars with low mileage on the market too these days.
someone was alleging a honda crv 3 yrs old but only 190km on the odometer was available for
10L. a good condition sonata for 6L.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 18 Mar 2009 10:54

City has a good resale value GD. The 2nd hand market has truly collapsed. Cars such as alto/santro/swift with low mileage are available for around 1.5-2 lacs. Due to recession many folks are unable to pay the uber-high emis and have abandoned/disposed off the cars.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 Mar 2009 13:31

Today, got the registration of my ol' civic dx changed to Arnoldistan. They even took away my original title and said I will get a new title

. Ofcourse on seeing the price at which I had bought the car 4 years back (~$1300.-), DMV motorhama asked me if I drive the car from inside or outside

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 20 Mar 2009 04:37

Nayak wrote:City has a good resale value GD. The 2nd hand market has truly collapsed. Cars such as alto/santro/swift with low mileage are available for around 1.5-2 lacs. Due to recession many folks are unable to pay the uber-high emis and have abandoned/disposed off the cars.

I never owned a car in Desh but am nw gng back and buying one. Of these cars Nayak ji mentioned, alto/santro/swift, wud they offer a comfy driving experience to a 6"1 guy? a few friends told me nt to get a small car but I am just trying to get various opinions before I frame mine

guys, advice plz...

Rajesh_MR · Post by **Rajesh_MR** » 20 Mar 2009 05:12

Yogi_G wrote:alto/santro/swift, wud they offer a comfy driving experience to a 6"1 guy? a few friends told me nt to get a small car but I am just trying to get various opinions before I frame mine guys, advice plz...

They are not in the same class. Alto being the smallest.
Santro would be good bang for buck. Ride is kinda hard but engine does very well in city traffic with minimal gear changes. Don't bother taking it on highways, max comfortable speed for me in a Santro is 70-80kmph.
If you want a car for both city and highway, Swift is a good buy.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 20 Mar 2009 05:21

Yogi_G wrote: never owned a car in Desh but am nw gng back and buying one. Of these cars Nayak ji mentioned, alto/santro/swift, wud they offer a comfy driving experience to a 6"1 guy? a few friends told me nt to get a small car but I am just trying to get various opinions before I frame mine guys, advice plz...

Check out Vista diesel(with Fiat multijet engine) since your are tall. Even a guy 6ft 2 is finding it comfortable here on tbhp It is most spacious in its category because IIRC they plan to export it to massa and khans love everything big onlee. I know people don't suggest indica for interior quality reasons but this vista is a huge image makeover for tata.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 20 Mar 2009 10:57

Vista is fantastic value for money, but you will be stuck with the image of cab-wallahs, also do you want to rub shoulders with the rough elements everytime you give it out for service ?

I suggest you to take a look at Swift, cannot go wrong with suzuki and Maruti service is super with a strong network of dealers in every corner. Also you can use them to upgrade later on to SX4.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 20 Mar 2009 11:05

Nayak wrote:but you will be stuck with the image of cab-wallahs

Nayak saar you have lived in sing a pore and seen mercedes cabs. So will you now be scared of buying a merc ? Besides they are not selling the vista in white paint yet. Don't know about service though

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 20 Mar 2009 11:14

Wrong comparison Aryan-upper-class-mamoo!!! Mercedes are not the only cabs there, IIRC the major cabs are Hyundais and Toyotas.

Anyways this is India, and we are talking about Indian cars.

And no I will never own a Mercedes, I am very pragmatic, I would not want to invest precious capital on a piece of metal on 4 wheels to take me from point A to point B.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 20 Mar 2009 11:33

For someone who comes back from abroad, do not look at the Santro/Alto class at all. Start at the top end of the hatches, or sedans onlee. You wouldn't be happy with the former I tell ya.

Getz/i20/UVA/Fusion/Swift/Fabia is the premium hatch cars. I would write off Getz (old), Fusion(old, EOL) and Fabia (Ripoff), The other three are good.

Verna/Fiesta/Aveo/City/Linea are the sedans. Aveo isn't that good.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 20 Mar 2009 11:37

Why I would never buy a Skoda? VW decided that India is not worth for the VW Brand, while China is. We SDREs can have the SDRE Skoda onlee.

And We SDREs lap it up as high end luxury brand. I wouldn't buy a Skoda, (Or a VW) if those are the last cars on earth, and the other choice is to walk, and the land is full of hot rocks, and I have no shoes.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 20 Mar 2009 16:48

The noise-less tyre from Michelin

http://specials.rediff.com/money/2009/m ... chelin.htm

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 20 Mar 2009 17:24

Dileep wrote:Why I would never buy a Skoda? VW decided that India is not worth for the VW Brand, while China is. We SDREs can have the SDRE Skoda onlee.

And We SDREs lap it up as high end luxury brand. I wouldn't buy a Skoda, (Or a VW) if those are the last cars on earth, and the other choice is to walk, and the land is full of hot rocks, and I have no shoes.

Exactly ! To see the Skoda being marketed as some upmarket brand is hilarious. Infact, I remember an ad a few years ago pitching the Skoda Superb directly against the Mercedes E-Class. The cheek !

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 21 Mar 2009 12:01

What everyone is saying about the Nano

March 21, 2009

With the countdown now at a couple of day (and a odd few hours), the excitement is palpable. We thought this would be the right time to let you in on what people are saying about the most awaited car in the world... the Nano.

# The Nano shows that a new world order is possible in the auto industry: Consultant and principal at Booz Allen.

# You have to be very bold and say that I am going to really change the paradigm of how people are going to travel, how families are going to have transport. I am going to try to get families to stop using tractors to go into town or to sit on a motorscooter in a dangerous manner: Ratan Tata.

# He (Ratan Tata) is putting himself in the place of the buyers of the car, his reasoning being that when he drives it around, he is likely to identify trouble spots or glitches much before the car gets into the market...: A parts supplier for the Nano who didn't want to be identified

# Some marginal customers who really stretch their pockets to buy Rs 200,000-plus car might now look at the Nano. Potential motorcycle buyers who get a loan may also look at a Nano. Its real impact on the small car market, however, can be gauged only when the product stabilises: R C Bhargava, chairman, Maruti Suzuki India

# This car promises to be an environmental disaster of substantial proportions: Yale environmentalist Daniel Esty.

# We started to feel the impact of the Nano since the announcement of the launch date. People are postponing purchases and there has been a lull in the market ever since: Arif Fazulbhoy, director, Fazulbhoy Motors, one of Mumbai's largest used-car dealers.

# We don't see the Nano as a game-changer today. In our current forecast scenario, we are hesitant to think about that. I think the (Rs 100,000) market price will be difficult to sustain over a long period of time given there is always a minimum material cost. Initially, it may have an enthusiastic response but, over time, the operating costs will tend to dampen that enthusiasm a bit. I think generally it's a lot of publicity, it's a lot of brand recognition globally than actual volumes: John Bonnell, director of forecasting (Asia Pacific), J D Power & Associates.

# The Nano is similar to or cheaper than an auto-rickshaw and offers similar mileage. But it provides more safety and has superior technology, so I see the conversion of this market to the Nano: R C Bhargava, chairman, Maruti Suzuki India.

# I heard there's a big rush for applications for the car. I just hope we can get one. I've waited for so long: Shweta Kumari.

# The Nano cost structure is based on high volumes. So, only when you make good use of the installed capacities, then you will start making good money on such products, which we believe will come only from fiscal year 2010-11 when we expect them to produce 300,000-400,000 units per year. Any kind of impact from the Nano on Tata's consolidated balance sheet would only come after 2-3 years: Amol Bhutada, analyst, Edelweiss Securities Ltd.

# It's not a car anyone would be ashamed to be seen in. It's cool, funky and politically correct: Hormazd Sorabjee, editor, Autocar India

# The Nano will have an adverse impact on the motorcycle market, but we don't see it taking away customers from the current small cars ... If price were the only criterion, then sales of the Maruti 800 -- the cheapest car currently -- would not have declined: Arvind Saxena, senior vice-president, Hyundai Motors India Ltd.

# Nano will bring in the value add of anything between the 3-5 per cent. What it will try to do is, it will eat into the share of the two wheelers, compact cars, para transport and resale cars: Mahantesh Sabarad, auto analyst, Centrum Broking.

# Our own opinion internally is that it won't impact the two wheelers market. There are many households which are emerging with second hand cars and two wheelers, where they use second hand cars largely for their personal needs: Venu Srinivasan, CMD, TVS Motor Company.

# The 100 cc bike is available at Rs 30,000, so it is one-third the price of a Nano. And the maintenance cost of a car is four times that of a motorcycle. And remember, the motorcycle buyer has a monthly salary of much less than Rs 10,000 a month. For him, the Nano is out of reach: A top executive of a leading two-wheeler company.

# They have high income levels and they buy bikes to make a statement and enjoy the power. Such customers will not go and buy a small, cheap car: S Sridhar, CEO, two-wheeler segment, Bajaj Auto.

# Even if they claim it will be fuel efficient, the sheer numbers will undermine this. India's infrastructure doesn't have the capacity: Vivek Chattopadhyaya, air pollution specialist, Centre for Science and Environment.

# I want the Nano because it is cheap and (the) best: Nirupa Venkatesh, a Bangalore-based dentist.

# You guys should make the Nano in Colombia since it would be a good place to produce them; we are in the middle of the American continent so it can be easily transported anywhere from Canada to Argentina at a lower cost; we have ports in the two oceans and many international cargo airports; we also happen to already have auto maker plants in Colombia too: Luis, on the Nano website.

# The launch of the Nano will largely impact the unorganised sector, where cars are sold without any warranty or proper service record. The organised sector has continued to grow despite the hype created around the car. We have healthy demand for well-kept cars that are bigger than Nano but come with a price tag similar to Nano and carry a warranty: Shubhabrata Saha, chief executive, Mahindra First Choice Wheels.

# The euphoria over the Nano is unmatched. We have already held staff meetings on how to handle the thousands of people expected to walk in that day: Premanand Shenoy, chief executive, Prerna Motors.

# I observed families riding on two-wheelers -- the father driving the scooter, his young kid standing in front of him, his wife seated behind him holding a little baby. It led me to wonder whether one could conceive of a safe, affordable, all-weather form of transport for such a family. Tata Motors' engineers and designers gave their all for about four years to realise this goal. Today, we indeed have a People's Car, which is affordable and yet built to meet safety requirements and emission norms, to be fuel efficient and low on emissions. We are happy to present the People's Car to India and we hope it brings the joy, pride and utility of owning a car to many families who need personal mobility: Ratan Tata.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Mar 2009 13:18

Nayak wrote:
What everyone is saying about the Nano

# This car promises to be an environmental disaster of substantial proportions: Yale environmentalist Daniel Esty.
# Even if they claim it will be fuel efficient, the sheer numbers will undermine this. India's infrastructure doesn't have the capacity: Vivek Chattopadhyaya, air pollution specialist, Centre for Science and Environment.

Trust a Ivy League snob from Yale and a WKK-wannabe to get their panties in a twist over the Nano!

Interesting isn't it that both these fellows earn their daily bread by exploiting the spectre of pollution. If there was no pollution these idiots would be flipping burgers/cleaning municipality drains hence even if Tata came out with a car which only emitted water vapour they would call it polluting!

And whats with this high concentration of WKKs amongst bengalis....is it the commie+JNU exposure??